E8600 the fastest Core 2 Duo
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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I paid 400$ for my Core 2 Quad 9650 Extreme back in 09 & it wasn't a waste. I used that computer until 2 years ago & it still runs today. That Core 2 Quad system I ended up throwing an RX 480 8gb in it, even though the Motherboard could only handle 4Gigs of RAM it works well.
Agreed, many games run well on a Q9650!
Man with fsb oc and unlocked multiplier with good board and cooler you could really milk c2e for all they were worth
That realization of how life gets in front of some hobbies...
This is the processor in my current Gaming PC... Paired with a GTX 460 and dual-booting Win7/Win XP.
I so rarely even have much time to turn it on these days.
Great video and promising collection of titles that still run on this. Thank you!
I was thinking the same, but luckily my system is one year newer (i5 5200). But I guess it won't be long before Phil builds a "retro" system similar to my gear :p
Michael A Berry hehe I'm about to build a "new" retro gaming rig with an E8600, on an ASUS BLITZ motherboard with an X1900XTX and X-Fi Fatality, Corsair Ram and corsair sealed liquid cooling. That's to be a counterpart to my FX-60 AMD AGP rig which I even have a HD3850AGP for, but I have quite a few rigs in that kind of class, from Athlon XP Barton at 2133MHz to P4 at 3400MHz all top of the line stuff down to the ram and sound. If you start buying things when you see them cheap on a local site you can build up a collection of really cool stuff over time
To be fair, depending on the genre(s) you're into you, you didn't miss anything and you can already play the best games.
@@noth606 used one @4.5ghz paired with a EP45T-UD3P and a 750ti with a X-fi titanium on top,
was a pretty darn good build already, but then upgraded to a Q9650@4ghz paired with a 960.
totally overkill for any XP era games but it's pretty nice to have the option to use 2k/4k oversampling.
Your comment is 3 years old and I just read it. I hope you still have the machine. It sounds really similar to one I've built and still treasure... even though it can't run modern games.
I used a core 2 duo 4300 at the time insanely overclocked at 3.00 GHz, from 1.8. I was stunned with the overclocking capacity these processors had. I didn't like vista I remember at the time, and used to run xp up until windows 7 came out. I couldn't run crysis well at the time, but played the hell out of Oblivion and fallout 3!! Good times!!
We ended this era of dual cores to move over to quad cores and ended up stuck on them until Ryzen. Don't trust monopolies!
And Ryzen Changed everything
@@dakata2416 It is!
But I live in free and democratic Taiwan where the Internet is uncensored and we can happily mock and criticise politicians. ;)
It won't be long when in the near future he'll be benchmarking a 6 core which would be outdated .
@@elstondias9172 Sounds like it's time for a Phenom II x6 video!
@Marco, We can't! Phil doesn't tested the Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 6400+, it called "THE BOSS" by old AMD Fans and push it to his limits. Then we move on! :) I talking here 4GHz with a AM2 CPU!!! B)
Ah the e8600 one of my favorite chips. With normal ddr2 at 800mhz you can easily reach 4ghz without touching the ram. i love this chip but, if you don't overclock it, the e8500 costs less and performs similarly. Speaking of E8500, in 2008, I used it overclocked at 4ghz with 4GB of DDR2 ram (clocked at 840ish mhz) and a 9600GT with 1GB of Vram. Good times. Thank you for reviewing this chip and yes, if you can, it would be nice to see how the dual core xeon performs.
I achieved 4.3GHz with the E8500 at 1.33 volts. I think the cheap mobo limited the fsb clockk but now I own a Asus P5k Deluxe with P35 chipset and the E8600 with higher multiplier and will try overclocking again soon :P
Philday is my favorite day of the week.
I still use an X-Fi Titanium in my main PC to this day. Amazing card!
Intel: All you need is 2 cores for gaming!
Amd: We made a triple core!
Intel: All you need is 4 cores for gaming!
Amd: Say hello to Ryzen!
Intel: You know...maybe we should follow those AMD bastards with multi-core cpu's for gaming and charge mortgage payments for them instead of their reasonable prices? Let's Dew It!
Amd: 4 Core 3300X $120 Gaming cpu!
Intel: We hate you....
Shiiii... today you can still comfortably game on a 2nd and 3rd gen i5 & i7
4c 8t premium price, unlocked multiplier :3
@@TheOliveboy93 Used prices are still super high for that reason, hope it will drop soon since i have a lot of DDR3 sticks laying around i could use with 2nd or 3rd gen i7.
This is a biased representation of facts 😂.
Let's just ignore AMD's FX days eh? 🤫🤐😬
In theory, the best "Gaming" CPU will always be a single core(and thread). You don't get the latancy, that is inevetable, when you have the processing split though multiple threads and cores.
But again, the latency is something we humans are too slow to notice, so when we need the processing power, it is for now, the (only) way to go. To have "enough" processing power on one core, would require insane high frequency compared to multi core. And we know that 5 GHz is very dificult to top over on these types of Silicon used. We topped 5 GHz with Sandy Bridge back in 2011 (I'm not talking insane overvolting/ LN2 Cooling solutions)
Also the heart of my XP rig with 750Ti 👌 I actually replaced 9550 with this one and got better results! 😊
I actually just built an XP machine with this very CPU because of the price. I cleaned and repasted a GTX 285 to use with it since my build goal was to use period accurate parts from 2008-2009 (Minus power supply, of course)
I overclocked my E8400 to 3,6Ghz back then but then switched to a q6600 overclocked to 3ghz until the end of 2017 when i built my amd am4 machine which saw a few upgrades since then.
Latest upgrade was from Ryzen 5 1600 to a Ryzen 9 3900x simply awesome.
Congrats on over 100k subs!
I built my first PC since 2001ish in 2007. Went with the Q6600 and overclocked it to over 3ghz. Initially picked up the 8600GT to save some money until I upgraded to the GTX 260 Core 216 in 2008.
I still have the Motherboard and CPU(Gigabyte P35-DS4 and Q6600) lying around. I occasionally use the 8600GT as well to check for a boot screen. My old X79 Extreme6 didn't like the Asus GTX980 I bought and wouldn't boot with it. When I swapped in the 8600GT it booted up perfectly fine. Luckily was able to swap the card for something else.
I was on the E8400 overclocked to 4GHz for quite a while. Back then it was so much snappier in Windows when compared to the quadcores. I was sad to leave it behind when games started to support quadcores better and better.
I was running XP Pro SP2 as my daily-driver OS until mid-2011, though I had mucked around with Win7 on some refurbished Dell Optiplex systems over 2009/2010, before building an all-new i7-2600K system with Win7 Ultimate 64-bit in mid-2011. Totally skipped over Vista.
Went from 3GHz HT P4 on LGA775 to 3.6GHz 4c/8T i7 with that new system, had the 2600K reliably OC'd to 4.2-4.5GHz without problems as well.
I was on and off with Vista and even dual booting for ages. TV tuner wouldn't work with Vista. Printer would not work...
Heh, I kept using XP SP3 until January 2013.
Ha, I'm using XP-SP3 (MSDN release) as we speak. :P
Yeah this i7-2600K was _the_ Intel CPU for many years, because Core i gen. 3-7 wasn't soldered and run very hot, they saved some cents making each CPU and their boxed coolers are crap, too. It couldn't even cool a Pentium 4 Prescott S478, had 72 °C and reboots all the time.
I also skipped ME and Vista, glad that I haven't seen the bugs, lol.
Now I see Win 10 bugs and use 8.1 Pro instead...until 2023 at least.
The older Dell Workstations are very robust, have a good cooling system and are cheaper than buying new stuff.
Fujitsu, Dell, IBM/Lenovo, HP business class...tbh., I don't want anything else anymore, if buying 2nd hand.
260+ mio. PCs are trashed every year and even the old business class hardware is quite cheap, 150 bucks and you have a nice machine, change the GPU and you're done.
I thought about switching to an i5-2400 at least, but the E8400 still is fast enough with a Samsung 850 EVO SSD.
And when using Linux with Xfce or LXDE Desktop, it's even much faster again. So all my laptops run Linux now. But I "need" Windows for easy gaming on the desktop PC, WINE is too complicated for such a big collection of games.
I found that helpful. I am using a gtx295 with my e8600. I had considered the 750ti but the 295 works. I have been considering a 960 to go in my q9550 build so that was cool as well. I have picked up a couple of 1920x1200 monitors for these builds. They are getting tough to find. That resolution would be a nice addition in the benchmarks.
dude, try to get GTX 650 ti.
GTX295 is SO unneficient card, that you are paying like $30 more every year on power consumption. Also DX11 support is from 400 series. You get even more spectrum of games.
Look at this graph. Your card draws 55W in idle!!!
www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-gtx-560-ti/25.html
Modern cards draw like 5-15W in idle. And have same or better performance.
Just get rid of that behemoth, you are paying price of 650ti twice over years for power electricity bill. 650 ti draws around 5W in idle.
Or just get 750ti. Should have performance about that GTX 295, but draws 45W in gaming in average, while your card about 200W for same performance.
www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-geforce-gtx-460-cyclone-oc-1-gb/8.html
(750ti is about 40-50% faster than GTX 460... so try to count it from graphs, you have comparsion with GTX 295 there)
Not to mention, that you cool 750ti/650ti easily, without any noise.
I know you have said you don't like overclocking but these core 2 duos overclocked really well if I recall correctly. Would have been interesting to see.
I have one of those C2D E8600, it overclocks at default voltage up to 4.10 Ghz with a nice heatsink. It is a beast. Intel artificially capped them at lower speeds so they could make the Core 2 Quads look better against the C2D
E8400 overclocks via FSB up to 4-4.2 GHz easily with the right chipset, f.e. Gigabyte EP35/45. I have such a board, but haven't tried it yet.
The guy I got the board/CPU from had it overclocked, was at 4.1 GHz, but I never used it so.
You can change clock / voltage of the CPU (not FSB) via RMClock or CPUGenie under Windows, btw., no need to go to the BIOS all the time to change some values.
Don't forget to cool the whole board with big fans when overclocking.
At normal frequency you can undervolt from 1.2 down to 1.0 or even 0.95 V, when overclocked, 1.1-1.2 instead of 1.3 V should be fine also.
My Northbridge runs quite hot, because of using 4 RAM slots, needed a fan.
I also want to test overclocking, but also want that it lives long, because my Pentium 4 board thermally died after 4 years and that's the fastest PC still here, next to a Xeon E3 Workstation, which is not for gaming.
got mine up to 4.5ghz without breakin' a sweat on a 240mm AIO, pretty sure it could be done on air with a decent cooler.
Thank you! It’s always a pleasure to see your channel. 4K production, curious hardware, old gadgets, great stuff!
Great Video.. I really wish you had a newbie side channel to explain things like EAX, Anisotropic filtering, Antialiasing, FPS, Pipelines and all the options for audio and video. I have vague ideas of what they are.. but a Rosetta stone for those of us without a lot of experience would be very helpful. Describing how you do the installs and why, are superb. Explaining the problems and workarounds.. like the USB stick preventing booting is AWESOME.. I've had the same problems with Intel 865 motherboards.
That could be something for a Tuesday bonus video!
I had a Core2Duo E6600 paired with a Geforce 8800GT in 2008. Wasn't high end but I managed to persevere my way through Crysis using it!
Same! E6600 overclocked and I got a 8800 GT when they launched!
I love how you said "persevere". My friend tried on an even worse P4 X800GTO, got mostly to the end, and had to quit due to low frames. LOL. I didn't bother till i was on this 775 E series.
Well I don't know if you'll see this but here's the specs of my previous system which I still have. Last year I acquired 2 HIS Ice Q Turbo HD 6870's.o.k. system- Asus M2R32MVP mainboard AMD Athlon 64X2 Dual Core 5000+ @2.61 Ghz 4Gb ram. 2 1Gig sticks from OCZ PC2 6400 Dual CH Platinum FR 4-4-4-15. And a bit later got a single 2 gig stick from Super talent that just says CL6. That probably is slightly conflicting with the OCZ timings. 1TB mechanical drive WD Sata. It started on a Radeon HD 6770, but shortly after getting the Ice Q's dropped one in. And it's all stuffed into a Lian-Li style clone case. It blew the 6770 out of the water. Oh OS is Win 10 32 bit. With the Ice Q 6870 it scored 40,868 3dmark03. 11,919 in 05.CPU scored 494. Still have yet to put the second on and activate crossfire and re-bench to see the difference. I used this system with the radeon 6770 from 2005 to 2017. And then in 2017 built my current Ryzen 5 1600 system. Everything running stock speeds.
I had an E6850, 4GB DDR2, an 8800 GT, SB Audigy 2 ZS PP and 2 WD Raptors in Raid 0. It was my first Intel based system since the Pentium 3. Athlon XP's all the way before that! A friend of mine had the exact same system, motherboard, cooler and everything, except he had the Q6600. The E6850 was slightly faster, especially overclocked, and certainly on (then) current and older games until about 1.5-2 years later when games started to take advantage of the additional cores. That system, with the exception of a graphics card upgrade, lasted me 'till 2012. Great video as always, Phil 👍
In 2008 I bought E8500 (it was cheaper than E8600 and could be OC'd with box cooler to 3.3 easily), GPU was GT 9600 512 MB, 2GB ddr2 RAM and P5K-Pro motherboard, I gradually upgraded it overtime to 4 and then 8 Gb RAM, replaced GPU with GTX 650, then with GTX 650 ti Boost, finally to GTX 670, I upgraded cooler, OC'd to 3.8 Ghz, then replaced with quad core (first Q series, then some xeon) and finally sold it in 2015 for around 150USD equivalent
I really loved it, was not first which I built myself from scratch, but upgraded and OC'd and learned a lot of things
Since then I started to collect and now I have top class ASUS P5E Deluxe and QX6700
Thank you for this cool channel. I will never again throw away computer hardware. Even checked all my basement etc. for old parts so I can do something with em, even if its just for some display stuff.
Yup, ran a p4 3.2 with HT and skipped over the dual core line to go directly to a q6600...
Good to be back watching PhilsComputerLab. In regards to this video I had upgraded to a Q6600 going from a Core 2 Duo E6300. I guess though I got another cpu to look at getting as it would be nice to have the fastest one can get for gaming with that Core 2 Duo E8600. My son's first pc is still going along strong and so yeah it's worth spending $10 US and the cheap shipping on and heck on my first order from there I will get a discount. Going to save that though and get this cpu with a big order from aliexpress.
Hi Phill great video, I am actually building a retro kind of XP with an E8400 and possibly dual 9600gt.
I have a machine with that set up, works really well.
Back in 2008 I was rocking a Sempron single core at 1.8GHz. It was a good runner.
I loved my E8400.... ended up swapping it out for an "upgrade" which was a Q6600 and used that until roughly 2013....
I’m using the E8600 and a 7950GT as my ultimate Win98 machine, with an audigy for sound card. The XP machine I put together uses Haswell core I5/i7 and a GXT970 or HD7970 GHZ with the X-FI. The XP machine can also work as a Win7 machine for games and apps (I can trim the SDD once in a while). Love your videos Phil, always learning something that will be useful in the future. Cheers from Brazil.
Beautiful!
I just snagged a freebie Tower with a P45/DDR2(4 gigs)/E8600/GTX 660. I can't wait to set this working system up!
Quote: "fastest that I have"
I think 960 is the fastest XP card there is, or I don't remember correctly ?
My 2nd PC is E5450 (Q9650) with 8 gigs of DDR2 and GTX760 (used GTX970 on Win8.1 at some point) still holds good.
Struggles with some online games (like ARK, Rust, etc...) but simple "shot em up" games it can handle very good, even modern ones.
@@MaoTao or even TITAN X (Maxwell based one with modded drivers) and this would be the fastest gpu for XP along with AMD's Radeon HD 7990.
The micro lag in online games are mostly long server pings. I played STO for a long time, until someone said there's other servers and bam, it ran so fast since then.
C2D E8400 with ATI 4550 and later GT 1030 GDDR5 and after changing servers I thought I have a totally new PC, lol.
To be honest everything struggles with ARK. It's just a god awful game, technically. I'm still angry that something so badly made got so popular.
@Dr ROLFCOPTER! Can you share a link with more information to prove your claim?
As far as I can find online is that Radeon R9 295X2 has drivers for Windows Vista and up.
Please tell me what modded drivers would install R9 295X2 on a Windows XP.
Radeon HD7970 Ghz edition is the fastest officially supported single gpu card that works in Windows XP.
In 2008 i bought an E8500 with 2GB HyperX DDR2 on a Gigabyte EP45-DS3 and a ATI Radeon HD4850 512MB. Pretty good system back then, i used it until about 2014 before I switched to a laptop and didn't really play games anymore. About two years ago I put it back in service, I kept the motherboard and fitted it with a socket modded X5460 and 6GB of ram and a GTX 1060. It was an experiment and I was quite surprised it performed as well as it did. I've upgraded since then, but I really liked the LGA775 platform from this generation. You could basically keep the system in service for almost 10 years and with a few upgrades here and there it kept performing very well.
Thanks for the info on using ssd in xp. You can use steam in xp too. Just install the latest version and let it update, then delete the folder. Download steam build 26-nov 2018 (not newer) and copy it to the location where steam was installed. Naturally do not update steam ever from there.
I still run an QX9650, 8gb of Ram and an Ati HD6870 in my youtube/netflix machine. Performs flawlessly even at 1440p or 1080p60 👍🏼
Yea a Quad is holding up a lot better than dual!
PhilsComputerLab
Hey Phil, i know you probably have a lot of stuff planned in advance, but i'd like to suggest a video along the lines of 'Maxing out the LGA775 Platform' speaking of an overclocked Quadcore/Xeon, Maximum amount of RAM and then trying out how much GPU Power you can Put onto it before it bottlenecks.
I've always looked for something like this but people always use Lower End cpus and overclock them.... Would be interesting how far one can push these systems!
Have a good weekend :)
If you plan on revisiting this cpu I would strongly recommend overclocking it. Both the e8500 and e8600 were legendary for being massive overclockers, easily hitting 4.5ghz with air cooling and offering substantial performance improvements from that, letting them run games that came out much later without any trouble.
Yea I'm just not that much into overclocking, but for sure, at 4.5 GHz and with a higher FSB you will see heaps better performance :)
First thanks for all your videos Phil!
It brings back valuable memories, refreshes my english, gives us more tools to play with and new options like with GPU FastVID, WDM vs. VXD drivers, Level Cache disabler for DOS, dgVoodoo2, Snappy Driver Installer, Easy2Boot, Gotek Floppy Emulator and even ISA Sound Card Initializer...wow, so much good stuff here in the channel!
Thanks also for mentioning RAM timings, although I do know pretty much about hardware, repairing and software I wasn't aware of this timings for many years, thought 1600 MHz is always better than 1333 MHz and similar.
DOSBox ECE is nice, but real hardware is better, ofc.
I still have 2x MPU-401 compatible Miro Sound cards, had to be initialized under Windows 3.x or 9x, before DOS or Linux can use it, but one calls PnP, lol and another one w/o "PnP", very great cards for Tie Fighter and all the General MIDI and Roland sound stuff. A pal also has a Roland daughterboard for ISA.
I have to try the Sound Card Initializer in a Legend QDI Pentium III Board with Pentium 700 100 MHz or 1000B 133 MHz CPU, that Board has ISA and PCI Slots.
Only a very few Pentium 4 and some AMD Athlon boards have ISA, but many Pentium III Boards have. One could go for the 1.4 GHz Tualatin, ofc.
Great that you found out, that ISA some times is even faster than PCI, like the 1st PCIe was slower and not that reliable like the older AGP Pro Port.
It's great to still see people around having fun with computer parts and retro gaming.
I started with a custom Sinclair ZX Spectrum micro computer mod with 3x 800 KB Floppies in a selfmade tower 30 years ago and had maybe 30-40 PCs in my lifetime yet, mostly used parts and it was so much fun back in the days where you could actually see every single new hardware was an improvement.
Do you know, that dgVoodoo2 can not only be used as a 3Dfx glide wrapper or for real Geforce 4 Ti/FX shadows (Splinter Cell),
but also for having maxed out resolution, FSAA and Mipmapping on older game engines? Use 1080p when only 1024x768 was usable from the game engine.
You have to play NFS 6 HP2 with it, it makes a big difference on 1080 maxed out, not for bitmaps, but for rendered stuff.
Yeah I love Far Cry, never got the 64 Bit mod with high distance working, tho.
This Far Cry 1, Crysis I plus Maximum Edition are my all time favs, next to Just Cause 1. It's endless freedom.
Tomb Raider Dagger of Xian is a nice fan remade with awesome graphics for a fan-based game, very professional.
The E8400 was the cheaper brother of the 8600.
You can even "overclock" it using the FSB, the E8400 can run at 4.0-4.2 instead of 3.0 GHz easily and can even be undervolted, using some chipsets like EP35 or EP45.
Btw, CPUGenie and RMClock at least can change normal frequency, throttle and undervoltage in Windows on the fly, without the need of the BIOS.
Undervolting to 1.0 or 0.95 V using normal FSB and clock frequency also makes it run very cool.
I thought about swapping it with an efficient Xeon E5450 if not going for a high performance X model maybe even topping the QX9770, but an i5-2400 is faster and also cheap and retro friendly.
My setup: C2D E8400 3.0 GHz, Gigabyte EP45-DS3LR, 7 gigs of mixed RAM. Tried to reball one defective 2 Gig RAM module, but wasn't lucky.
Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS or HDMI sound. Btw. the Soundblaster card can use newer I think EAX 4 drivers than it was shipped with, having support for newer EAX games.
Nvidia GT 1030 2 GB (old version with GDDR5). GPU+CPU passive with big heatpipes, put a 12 cm fan between the HDD cage and the mainboard cooling everything perfectly silent.
My older Asus P4P800SE Pentium 4 board died. That's why I then used a 17 watts ATI 4550 and now 30 watts Nvidia GT 1030 GDDR5, it's very cool, energy efficient and enough for old games.
WDC Black WD1002FAEX (one of the last and fastest 512 B Cluster HDDs from the WinXP era, which had no issues with data loss like the new 4096 B advanced formatted cluster HDDs on WinXP w/o the software fix).
Samsung 850 EVO SSD to make it lightning fast and I think all 2+ Core CPUs are worth running an SSD. Also the price is the same 4 years later, must be good hardware.
Win 8.1 Pro, because some day some games needed Win 7+.
Back in 2008 I still used a Pentium 4 3200 S478 with Win XP, until it died because of the small fan.
Btw., when an HDD gets some little weak/bad sectors, you can use the free HDAT2 tool alone or from UBCD or Hiren's Boot CD/DVD or the HDD Regenerator also does the same.
Yeah I also had issues booting, when some USB drives are hooked up, had to disable them. Especially my Gigabyte Board also seems to have issues booting a normal USB Stick sometimes, then you have to completely pull out the AC plug or turn off the switch for some secs, normal ACPI shutdown is not enough for some reason.
I now use an old rooted Android phone with DriveDroid app to boot the PCs directly from iso files...the cheaper and a bit slower way as using an Iodd 2531 virtual drive emulator with SSD, but quite fast compared to make USB Sticks and older DVD drive speeds. Nearly noone had those 72x CD drives back in the days. I had a very reliable and fast Teac CD-540e, but Flash memory nowadays is way faster.
Easy2Boot on an USB-SSD should be very fast, too, haven't tried it yet.
A similar Gigabyte Board of a mate, which has the QX9770 C2D Extreme wasn't able to boot an original bought Win 10 Home USB Stick, because of PMAP, lol. Had to copy it to another stick.
I prefer Win 8.1 x86 for the newer games to not run into upgrade issues, turned off auto update and only use the monthly winfuture delta updatepacks in the middle of every month.
The Android Web Alert app tells me when there's an update on the sites I need to check, saves some valueable time.
I also used the 2 Sereby AIO runtimes setup at first installation, to make .NET, Java and all the stuff install fast, also saves some time.
I always use GPartEd Live now for formatting, because it's more reliable, also when using Linux computers. Because Windows and even Acronis and Paragon don't see Ext4 partitions, f.e.
GPartEd sees everything and you won't accidentally format a drive with a used partition then. It also can handle MBR/GPT easily.
Strange is, some framerate locked games run with more FPS than 30 or 60 using WINE under Linux or maybe Batocera Plus, which now also has WINE included.
Yeah I think using dgVoodoo should make NFS Underground playable even in 1080 resolution. I tried NFS 6 HP2 and it worked well.
Here's a list of what runs fine using dgVoodoo2 and it's really easy and fast to use. Now every single cheap GPU can play old games at max. res and details, filters on 60+ FPS :)
dege.freeweb.hu/Gallery/DXGamesGallery.html
Oh wait, if you want max. performance, you can disable the c states and power management in the BIOS. Ofc. it eats way more power then.
The Intel Core technology is using more halt states then clocking around.
An E8400 mainly only does 2.0 and 3.0 GHz (multiplier 6 and 9) and much halt states in between, if you don't disable it in the BIOS.
I've seen throttling under Windows and also RecalBox / Batocera, although it runs performance governor. This is because of the c and halt states, not only p states.
You might also disable Hyperthreading and maybe even use Process Lasso Pro to assign everything else to other cores and the game, a web browser, rendering process or 7zip/winrar to only 1 physical core to gain 5-10 % more performance for free. It saves the settings compared to windows task manager and it's easy to tell all other processes to use low priority.
Look for X-Plane micro stuttering on youtube, there's an explanation of frame drops due to priority of processes, but they don't explain the c-states BIOS settings.
He yeah the Midnight racing series and Saints Row have very crappy controls on keyboard/mouse, guess you need a gamepad for those.
Yeah I remember Crysis 1 and Maximum ran quite well also on even older Pentium 4 Prescott 3200 MHz with ATI 9800 SE soft modded to Pro.
It really must be the multi processors and hyper threading which Crysis don't like, but a high clocked 1 core CPU at best performance.
You definitely have to check out disabling c-stated, thermal monitor 2 and use Process Lasso Pro to de-priorize everything else on all other cores but Core 0/1 using low priority, but using only Crysis on 1 core with high priority w/o using HT. Select all but the game and set priority to low and other CPU cores.
Close some processes, which aren't needed. Maybe even restart once before playing if on low RAM.
Maybe even disable all but 1 core in the BIOS, dunno. Crysis 1 is something special.
It's similar to the fact you disable RS232/LPT if not using it, saves some IRQ times.
Maybe even don't use extra PCI cards, dunno, it all needs IRQ times.
I would also put in an extra fan, because the CPU/GPU or even chipset may thermal throttle when it gets hot. That's what MacBooks or CPUs with tiny boxed coolers do all the time.
HDMI vs. VGA: 1st time I saw HDMI I thought what's that...everything is cold blue white instead of more natural yellow/red white.
I think the standard settings for RGB look better than HDMI, tbh and even 1080p on a 32 " TV works well with a short thick good shielded RGB cable with 2 ferrit cores on it, no ghost shadow like with the cheap cables.
There's plenty 40 GB Intel SSDs in cheap 2nd hand industry PCs which work perfectly fine, btw. They also ran long time using WinXP, so TRIM, garbage collection, wear leveling mostly is no issue there.
This nice water pearl effect in Crysis is because of DX 10. I also saw it with DX 9 graphics card using a soft DX 10 mod for it.
Although NFS U2 also has this effect using pure DX 9.
It would be great if you could show an AMD APU or Pentium J4105/J5005 or G4600. Maybe some day you get those somewhere.
Thanks again for all the videos!
I had a C2D e8400 based computer back in the day running server 2k8. It was such a slim OS that just got the F out of the way, unlike Vista which fought you every inch. You had to turn on specific services like Audio or the Enhanced User Experience. It was an AMAZING time in computing and makes me yearn to rebuild a system like that again.
I jumped on the Core2Duo in 2006. Overclocked an E6600 from 2.4GHz to 3.4GHz. No more lag from running windows processes while gaming! Right then I knew multicore was the future!
That box was insane for 2006. Ran Vista when it launched. increased to 8GB RAM. I had a LAN party in a box. Gigabit for filesharing patches and other... questionable... things... Enough power to run the dedicated servers for D3/HL2/COD4 and also fire up the game client and join my own match! Literally jaw dropping considering prior to this we were all running P4s or Althons that chugged and stuttered if you forgot to disable file sharing and someone pulled a file off your box.
Fastest Intel extreme edition was "only" 3.0GHz and was priced at whopping $1000!
I used (in 2008) Core 2 Duo E8400 Overclocked to 4GHz and 9800GTX + with 1GB VRAM and 4GB DDR2. A really great set for that time.
Love to see a best of year vid for PC's from 2000 to 2010
Great review. you can get Intel Xeon E5450 or X5440, modify the BIOS and double the performance
Back in 2008, I was using a AMD Socket 939 3000+ Venice single core cpu with an ASRock 939 Dual Sata 2 mobo and 2GB DDR rams
My PC in 2008 was a new build with E8200 and 9600GTs in SLi on a 680i (from SecretNet in the GFC). 21" CRT. I stayed on XP until Win 7 (which i got VERY early). And forget the Quad Core, you were lucky to get any Intel CPU for a while back then. I'd just upgraded after fiddling with P4 478s (i wouldn't if my PCIe/AGP board hadn't been stolen). Next thing you know it's 2014 and DX11 is a thing...
Crysis: Shame that Warhead ran better than the original (and they never patched it).
PS Where's the overclock? (i know you don't like overclocking, Mate) :p
Very timely that you should make this video. I have a spare core 2 duo and want to use it to build a retro XP machine for my younger sister to get her to look at some of her old games. Looks like I will be shopping for a board and various cards. Great info as usual. Cheers.
I have a Dell Optiplex 760 for several years and decided to max it out by adding E8400 cpu, wifi card, and a raid card with 2 SSD drives set with Raid 0 to boost my costom windows 8. When it boot after the post, less than a second windows pop-up and ready. I also have internal hard disk drives to backup my files incase my raid 0 fail. It was fun.
I have the E8600. I tried putting my custom loop on my test bench and a max of 1.46V vcore on my maximus ii formula. It ran 4.6 GHz. Hot as hell but man it was a lot of fun to play with.
In retrospect I think the dual core was the better choice at that time (cost/performance wise).
It took many years for quad cores to become relevant in most games. When it finally happened that quad cores became a must in most games, the speed of an old old Intel quad core CPU was already on the verge of too slow. If you kept the hardware for your eventual retro-PC then a dual core is for the period specific games a good choice as well. I like the old Intel quad cores though.
I was searching for it few days back and got your video notification wow nice work dude, on my side it cost $10 only worth for entry level pc
I remember upgrading to a x5460 771 and doing the 775 socket mod. Then quad core overclock to 4Ghz! That actually brings a lot of life back into that old platform.
I allways went for a few les cores with higher clocks. My first and only quad core, witch is still in use, is my good old companion 2600K @ 4.8 GHz. I never had a CPU which lasted for 10 years. My first computer was a C64. I'm waiting for Ryzen 4000 to build the ultimate retro XP 2600K 980 Ti PC.
The C2D and C2Q memories! Still have my modded s775 MSI p45 Platinum with a 4Ghz clocked X5460 sitting idle since I upgraded to a Ryzen 3600 build last summer.
Been thinking of dropping in a 'new' PSU with the old R9 270 and perhaps lap the cpu with the lapping kit I had also bought earlier in 2019. Though the system kinda has sentimental value I'm thinking of selling it.
One oddball I'm still using is an Asrock s775 Conroe865PE apg board with a c2d E520 clocked at 3,3Ghz, works okay-ish at 720p as a media machine.
4 GHz? Nice! Hang onto that AGP board, it is Windows 98 compatible and quite a collectable :)
@@philscomputerlab yea, a HOT 4Ghz (~1.32v ~65C)! Was surprised it only slightly bottlenecked the R9 270 compared to the Ryzen system.
The Conroe was my first C2D build back in 2007! Caps are all still good, surprising for an Asrock board from back then!
But I am looking to replacing it in time. Last upgrade (beside E5200) was the AGP ATI HD 4650. To get VA-API/VDPAU browser hw vid decoding to work in Ubuntu. But never could get it stable or crash free :(
Maybe when the time comes I can make some collector or youtube content creator happy with it :)
The E8600 was priced at around 300 bucks where as the QX9650 was 1k. I had an E8400 clocked at 4.0Ghz for a couple of years before I got my I7970 and X58.
E8600 is a good CPU for daily use today. By that I mean RUclips and web browsing if you are using a SSD and DDR3 memory at 1333MHz. Very few motherboards support DDR3 with Core 2. I upgraded from a E8500 to a Q9650 and ran at around 3.095GHz. That is good enough with XP. E8500 that I have works fine with Windows 10 as long as it has 8GB for a 64 bit version. OS's for core 2 seriesa are best with XP, 7, 8,8.1, and 10. I would use a E8500, E8600 with XP and Windows 7. Also great for a 32 bit OS. E: 8400, 8500,and 8600 were awsome CPUs for duel core.
I had this cpu for 3 years back in 2009. I really liked it with a gigabyte mobo :-)
I have the E8500 and the E8400 and a asus p5q deluxe works really well!
In 2008 I replaced my Pentium 4 system with a C2D, I could only afford the E8200 but overclocked it to 3.6GHz on an Asus P5K pro P35 board, Mushkin DDR2 1066, X-Fi Platinum and an AMD HD3870 512MB. It did run Crysis very well at 1280x1024 and that PC lasted me until 2016 having only upgraded the RAM to 8GB, win 7 on an SSD and a GTX460 1GB.
I wish I still had it for XP/7 gaming,
BTW I used XP all the way until 2009 when I fell in love with win 7. I never ever touched Vista.
Watching Windows XP after a long time.. Thanks mate
I got sff system with intel core duo e8400 :)
I recently used the Croe 2 Duo e8500 as my main computer for 2 weeks, since my main computer psu broke and I was waiting for a new fan for it.
It worked rather well actually, I used Windows 10 pro, and was doing a lot of video editing and recording. It was able to handle recording Minecraft with OBS, with limited performance, but it worked.
I was using a ssd with a 32gb pagefile, since this computer only had 4gb ddr2. I had more I could put in, but it doesnt seem to like more then 4gb.
I must say though, even in 2021 on Windows 10, it is able to handle most stuff, just on lowered settings. The gpu I was using was a GTX 970. (And at the end I was using my rtx 3060 in it) cause I got a adaptor for a 8 pin gpu cable.
I also overclocked it.
One day I want to try to put a 4 core cpu in that pc to see how it handles games.
Back in the day I ran Crysis at 1280x1024, mostly high settings on a C2D E8200@3.4GHz - 2GB DDR2 1066@800-9-9-9 - Radeon HD3870.
Silky smooth it was.
I skipped Vista, went straight from XP to Win7 my favourite os of all time. Man, I have to build a dual boot machine with XP and 7.
always amazes me how well these quads do, especially with an overclock
"If it has a Bios, then we are going to flash it!"
I recently started playing Need For Speed Underground 2 on the PC and that game seems to be very un-optimized. I admit that I was using a fairly week system(Athlon XP 3000+ and x800 XT) to play it, but the frame rate constantly fluctuates from around 60fps down to the low 20s. Lowering the resolution didn't yield the performance improvements that I expected either. I was surprised to see the performance that you got with this system too.
Just FYI, the GTX 960 and 750Ti are both Maxwell GPUs. Not a whole lot of architectural difference to account for the Doom 3 result.
I see, thanks!
I chose the Q6600 GO over the E8400 because i knew the Q6600 GO could overclock to at least 3.2GHz. Though, i got mine to 4GHz with a ton of voltage but, ran it at 36GHz-3.8GHz dialy depending on the situation. i bought it in a bundle with the eVGA 680i SLi rev.2 (Black Pearl) motherboard. Using 1200MHz SLi ready OCZ DDR2. Basically the fastest DDR2 at the time. That rig still runs to this day. With 115,000hrs logged. I put a GTX 1050ti at 2GHZ in it and it can still hang with entry level Dual cores today. I also put a GTX 1050ti running at 2GHz in a 5GHz i7 3770K PC and it runs games like Metro Exodus at 60fps at high settings and PhysX enabled. nVIDIA updated the drivers for the GTX 1050ti in Metro and it did boost perofmance by 34%. I love the GTX 1050ti. That little samsung fabbed 14nm chip screams, in a good way...lol... Even Qualcomm used samsungs 14nm fabrication in Qualcomm's Snapdragon 820/821 SOC's. That says alot about samsungs fab and nVIDIA's choice to go with them. Remember most GTX 1050ti's didn't have a 6 or 8pin power connector. The ASUS dual OC 1050ti's that i have runs at 2011MHz on the GPU core locked. My next little GPU to test is the GTX 1650. That's the Turing design. Also the GTX 1660ti is a great chip. 1536 cuda core's at 1770MHz stock. But, can easily OC to 2.10GHz+. Remember the 1660ti is a custom chip that's a full die, (284 mm²), not cut down. Just like the GTX 1050ti. The 1660ti has 6.6 Billion transistors. That's double the 1050ti but, since there was an IPC gain in Turing the 1660ti is more than 2X as fast. 115% faster to be exact. Of course it has twice as amny cuda cores but, we all know that performance doesn't scale with core count. T least not in the GPU realm after about 1,000 sream processor, cuda cores. Whatever they wanna call them. There just ALU's. But, back to the 1660ti. The silicon is basically binned when its cut right off the wafer. Because it one chip design and one chip only. The highest of the TU116-400-A1 die. I wanted the 1660ti but, i seen a eVGA RTX 2060 3slot fatboi for $220. It wasn't the 1660ti i wanted though, the 2060 will do just fine for the testing i want to do. Anyway great vid. I always love runnung older hardware that was once the highest of the high end.
this chip is a bit cheaper as a socket 771 chip as the xeon e5260 & at 4.5 ghz its almost the same performance as a q8300.
The x5272 is at 3.5 ghz vs 3.3 ghz, so you can certainly simulate the performance just overclocking & lowering the multiplier until you hit a similar ram speed & cpu clock.
Though the xeon e5440 is a good quadcore budget cpu if you cant find the e5450 cheaply.
I do have the Xeon with 3.5 Ghz! Maybe for another video.
I like such projects very much. Like to see very high end hardware on system of that time. I never owned high end hardware at the time of it’s lunched. Philip please add Windows Vista next time, like you had dual boot at this day’s)
Was rocking 3.2ghz northwood p4 in 2008 pretty much skipped the core2duo mainly due to the agp to pci e jump and the p4 was still running most things fine. Q9650 420x9 with 8gb 1344 ddr3 is still daily driver while its feeling aged and i havent owned it since 2008 for a dirt cheap build it eased the pain of that fx8120 system i got in a trade which was "supposed" to be a upgrade from the p4 lol
Surprising to see a modern video about running Windows XP! I didn't know you still could run much on that OS! I do believe these systems run Windows 10 just fine. Was this for performance reasons, or because you know you and your viewers will be wanting to use XP for retro gaming? (It seems like those games you showed would run on Windows 10 as well.)
Thanks for the video. These CPUs (and GPUs) are a blast from the past.
I ran one of these as my main rig just 4 years ago actually, but overclocked to 4.6GHz. Was fine for new games back then, also new doom came out and ran fine on it, with watercooling of course though, Air is for amateurs.
now this is something different
Back in the day, I could get an E8400 or a Q6600 for the same price. Ddr3 was double the ddr2 price, anything faster than 800MHz was ridiculously expensive (over here), so any kind of serious overclock with a 1333fsb was a no go. So, I opted to future proof my pc and get the Q6600. Those prices seem silly compared to today. Also, my 4GB of ram was almost an overkill back then.
I got an E8500 back in the day, overclocked to 3.8 GHz with a GeForce 9800 GT
I have Duo E8500 and Quad Q8300 in a Vostro 230. Will try tape mod and benching when I have time.
That's the final dual core my old e machine was upgraded to, the never obsolete pc... fyi it's obsolete now
Obsolete only for playing modern games. Still quite decent for browsing/office use if paired with an SSD.
@@НиколаГеоргиев-ш2б This is true. I still use an imac with a late gen core 2 duo daily for web browsing and watching videos. Still barely notice a difference in performance browsing compared to my more modern systems.
Lol I was making a joke about eMachines slogan from back in the day. My daily driver Win10 is an fx 6300 over clocked to 4.5ghz 16gb ram w/ a gtx 1070 my Xp rig is an Athlon x2 6400+ black edition overclocked to 3.45ghz 4gb ramw/ a gtx 750 ti
@@Alobster1 I own two Dell Studios - 1735/1737. With the 2.0 Ghz C2Ds and HDDs they feel quite laggy, but the SSD alone made a huge difference. Sadly, the 8GB DDR2 upgrade is too expensive.
I also upgraded a friend's Acer from a dual core Pentium@ 2GHz to the C2D P9600 ( TDP 25W, at only 2.67GHz with massive 6 MB cache) plus 8GB DDR3 which doubled the Cinebench score. Now it feels as fast as his Haswell i3 U series laptop (if not slightly better).
The fastest 35W TDP Core2Duo chips T9800 and T9900 reach clockspeeds of 2.93Ghz and 3.06GHz. In addition, the Penryn series feature a slight single core boost.
I still have my Phenom X4 9950 Black Edition from 2008. Great CPU
The qx9650 beats my HP all in 1 pc's i5-4460T 4th gen processor! it was a beast back in the day. it hit 4.2ghz easy. i used a q9300, best cpu imo at the time, much cheaper and still the same 45nm process, you could run it fanless no joke! very efficient cpu all you needed was a push and pull case fan with a decent thermalright air cooler.
I have my E8400 still up and running!
Duel core was still prevalent until only recantly 2017-19 really due to ryzen with real 6-8 cores, forcing Intel to make 6 and 8 cores and making 4 cores start to be the minimum in i3's
Hey Phil can you try to get your hands on E8700? It's the fastest core 2 duo and very rare. Clocked to 3.5 GHz, it should overclock to 4 Ghz super easy.
I have the Xeon equivalent, but AFAIK the E8700 never sold to customers?
Back in 2008 I had a Core 2 Duo E6320 1.86GHz, 2 gb 667mhz ddr2 and an MSI 8600GT 256mb. A year later I upgraded to a 9800 GT 512mb. At first I was hyped about DX10 and used Vista for a while. Went back to XP and noticed the performance was much better and since the 8600GT couldn't handle Crysis at high or very high settings (I was not going past medium), I stayed with XP until I got a new computer in 2011 with an i7 and switched to Windows 7. Good times :)
Ah I remember the 8600 GT, was a bit lackluster if I remember...
@@philscomputerlab I upgraded to it from a Pentium 3 and GeForce 2 ti 32mb. So at the time I was pretty happy lol
775 is great even today. I bought E8400 for less than 2$, MSI P45 Neo2-FR for 12$, some ram for 10$, OCed the processor to 3.6GHz and paired with used RX470 I've got a great PC for pennies. Hunting for Q9xx series and it will get even better.
EDIT:
Hang on, you paired this processor with DDR3 memory? I thought it's a DDR2 platform.
This is the chip I should have bought back in the day with a nice midrange motherboard and 1333DDR3. I ended up getting the E2000 and it was a hassle getting 60fps even whilst heavily overclocked well past 3GHz.
I added that processor to my dads dell computer that had celeron 3ghz single core. I switch to AMD 1055T if memory serves me right and my dads computer was super slow lol. Boy was it a big upgrade indeed, everything was snappy
Hey Phil. Question. Is there a place in Germany where they sell crt monitors? Awesome content bro!
I found out the most future proof thing is CASH... I now always get the mid-range processors and call it a day.
I think around 2008 I was using a Pentium 4 Dell machine that had a Nvidia 6800 GT and the first time I booted up Crysis, it was barely capable of running the game. I desperately played the game in slideshow form and adapted to the huge accessibility disadvantage. I call it slow-motion gameplay back when bullet time was cool
I'm curious what resolution you were running with Crysis? Was that 1080p or 1440p? I'm using a GTX 1080 with a 27 inch 1440p 144 Hz ROG Swift IPS monitor and discovered Crysis has a display resolution window 1440p option from top to bottom of the screen letting me see whatever I need on the left and right side in the background. It's kind of useful for chat and such. Or multitasking while gaming :P
Very nice video! I am wondering if it is possible to install an add-in SSD card on the PCI-e slot, instead of SATA SSD, it would boost the system performance a lot
for the people running Q6600 and similar cpu's under windows 10 READ THIS: Today i installed windows 10 on my old q6600 optiplex and the Cinebench r15 score was much lower than in Windows 7 (232 compared to 301) and i found out that core 2 cpu's are also affected by Meltdown patches, so i downloaded an app called inSpectre and disabled the patches with that and now the performance is back to normal. Made a huge difference,
I think it's important to mention that the best AMD cards have a resolution cap with HDMI of 1080p, only DP and DVI exceed that with 2560x1600.
If you are using monitors with greater resolutions and want to play games in the native screen size, Nvidia cards have a limit of 2160p under Windows, Far Cry (GOG) and FEAR can take full advantage of greater resolutions, as many games like them use the GPU to determine available resolutions.
The SB0800 is a rare example of an EAX 5 supported card on Pci-e, as many Creative Pci-e cards do not support EAX 5 used in many late XP games like Battlefield 2142 and Bad Company 2.
Avoid the Xtreme Audio Pci-e as that is software based and goes up to EAX 4 only.
I play Witcher 3, Shadow of Mordor medium settings, shadow of war medium settings, Man of Medan 1024x768 low settings, and many other new titles on medium settings paired with an r9.270 with my e8600.
The E8600 CPU's really struggle these days with even basic tasks like web browsing. Apparently the Core2Quad does better.
The Core 2 Quad does so much better with Windows 10 and modern tasks! Most modern games won't even launch with a dual core CPU :D
I remember that era, everyone bought q6600 and felt smart, while I believed that every new tech needs at least 3-5 years to be implemented in mainstream consumer level apps(read:games), so I bought E8500@OC ~4.#Ghz(crazy for that time, some folk were in 4Ghz club, or 5, can't remember) and used it loong while everyone upgraded to first I#-9#0..
After I bought I5-2500k.. rest is history. As far as CPU goes, Intel was real good to me..
These days, IDK anymore..
2008 was a E8500... but i couldn't overclock it, instantly unstabil... well back then i didn't mess with voltage so that might have been why.
But i have a current system for my daughter a q9650 OC to 3.6Ghz and it's rock solid and temps barely goes above 55C. I'm planning on replacing the gtx 560 ti she has with a gtx970... but i feel like the gpu is kinda wasted on that cpu. I don't know, i guess i will find out soon.
The Q9650 at 3.6Ghz can make a gtx 970 use 98% in Crysis 1080p Very High settings, but fps is between 83 peak, avg 60-70 but that first sunrise scene gets it down to 32-38. The cpu wasn't at 100% load.
COD4MW1 all settings maxed and 1080p gets about 90fps but the gpu only at 40-45% use.
me in 2008:Playing Call of duty world at war on an AMD with an expensive GTX on winxp... good times ;)
These mega overclock too, should repeat with a max OC. Be very different!
Last time i tried running a Pentium D 945 4.5GHz with 8GB of DDR3 on ASUS P5K3 Deluxe :) Don't remember what the RAM speed was, because the max RAM multiplier is divided from the FSB which was relatively low on a 945 and i didn't tinker with lowering the multiplier and increasing the FSB from the default multi, but still pretty overkill to run 8GB of DDR3 on a Pentium D, also it was heating quite a lot at 4.5GHz making the Mugen 5 with 2x12cm Noctua FANs working hard.
Would be nice if you had a decent board and overclocked it to 4 ghz and more.
2008 i had a shitty amd sempron 2600+ with a ati 9800 pro :D one year later i bought my first good PC with a Phenom 2 955 and a HD 4870
Yes Phil the USB must be removed lol ..after install ..or you get that error
and after wasting time on re installs ....i found that out waaahhhht !
Good old AM2 VS LGA775 days. The start of Intel Taking the lead after their failed netburst architecture which actually peaked at Northwood Pentium 3.2 with HT on socket 478.
Those Core2Duo's 8400 and up were the kings of dual cores but I also remember at the time that the Athlon X2's were also pretty decent.
I went from an Athlon X2 5200 on with an Asus M2N-E (Nvidia chipsets back then were pretty good) to a Phenom X4 9950 with a tiny overclock to 2.73
The first gens of Phenom1's with model numbers ending with 00 had a flaw I recall. The press was bad on them but if you waited for the dropped prices, they made for an excellent upgrade on your AM2 Motherboard :)
@@Daniel-CoolTI Awesome and thank you for sharing! Those times I really cherish. Although my retro time was earlier, I also lived this young adult time of my life.
@@philscomputerlab Thank you for the reply, it means a lot as I love and appreciate your channel. I started my love for I.T. with my friend's 486 DX2. My first was a Compaq 133 that my dad bought me for at the time 3200$... Depreciation being what it was back then I sold it within a year for 800ish dollars, added some spare change I saved and built my first PC, an AMD K6-233. I have been passionate about PC's ever since :)
You're channel has inspired me to rebuild myself some vintage PC's also your site has been a huge help.
@@Daniel-CoolTI Yea technology just moved so fast. I also sold the old computer and put the money towards a new one. Wish I had kept every single part though. But that just wasn't possible, and at the time it was obsolete so fast...