I've been watching a lot of interviews with Labour members and I love the way that despite detesting each other it's all on a first-name basis. These guys are great to watch.
I agree just like Foot and Corbyn but the reality is that when they were pre eminent in the Labour Party, Labour suffered its biggest defeats and allowed the Tories to shaft the working class.
These men had far, far deeper political differences than anyone in today’s politics, and what they all did had huge consequences for the country - yet no interruptions, no name calling and no disrespect.
I think the fact that they all argue so well and amiably magnifies the real tragedy of the left from the 70s onwards. They lost the ability to negotiate and act as a movement. Some of the worst lunges to the left and right could have been avoided with better management. It highlights how truly awful a choice Michael Foot was as leader in 1980 and how awful a choice Corbyn was in 2015.
How many more general elections would Labour have won had the leadership succession been Wilson, Callaghan, Healey, Owen and then Blair? At least one and probably two more in my opinion.
In an ideal world Wilson, who was politically shrewder than Callaghan, would have stayed on to fight one more election. If Wilson called and won an election in 1978 (the year Callaghan should have dropped the writ) and stepped down as PM in 1980, you might have had something like Healey-Smith-Brown (Callaghan probably perceived as being too old to run by the time Wilson stepped down).
Owen would have had a good chance of a majority in 1992 and a lesser chance of a coalition with the Liberals in 1987. 1983 would have been more like 1979: Healey had a lot of baggage and his personality put many people off, but at least he wasn't Michael Foot, and he wouldn't have approved a hard left manifesto.
Fascinating very enjoyable to watch, all allowed to put their views across without constant interruption. I was lucky enough to see the great Tony Benn at one of his Audience with shows, he was just superb & stood up for what he believed in & had very sharp wit as well Thank you
@@rc2869 Possibly. Labour just couldn't afford to lose heavyweights like Owen, Jenkins, and the late, very sadly, Shirley Williams. I've never seen the Labour frontbench have so many lightweights. Fair to say that since the the Brexit cull the Tory frontbench isn't exactly full of heavyweights either.
Listening to their criticism of Blair and the way Brown became leader, I wonder what they would make of the next two leaders Milliband and Corbyn and the current leadership candidates. I bet Benn would have approved of Corbyn and Owen would have had to leave if he had not previously left.
Oddly enough, Richards has a video...I think it's about the SDP...where he says that Owen had said that some of Corbyn's economic policies were the kind he would have supported were he still in the party (and that he had made a donation to Labour's campaign). Of course, Owen has said a lot of things over the years, so take that with a grain of salt.
We're seeing now in the Conservative Party what a bad idea Tony Benn's was to allow party members to elect leaders. It's actually more undemocratic and leads to extremes. Party members cannot be held accountable by the electorate like an MP can, and they are often much more extreme.
mandatory reselection would transform Labour into one of the most democratic institutions - at the very least on a local level - in the country, and with all the troubles it presents (I get that MPs are worried about being ousted, but then maybe they should be better representatives and earn the respect of their constituents) it would be have tremendous long-term advantages for them.
It was reintroduced under Corbyn's leadership under influence by Momentum where each MP's CLP had to re-elect their MP. A confidence motion. It is how David Owen described it as a means for the left to get rid of those they are not politically aligned with & to consolidate power.
I've been watching a lot of interviews with Labour members and I love the way that despite detesting each other it's all on a first-name basis. These guys are great to watch.
Thanks for uploading this.
David Owen, Tony Benn and to a lesser extent Roy Hattersley are worth 10 of Tony Blair at anytime.
RIP Tony Benn. A thoroughly decent and principled man.
I agree just like Foot and Corbyn but the reality is that when they were pre eminent in the Labour Party, Labour suffered its biggest defeats and allowed the Tories to shaft the working class.
These men had far, far deeper political differences than anyone in today’s politics, and what they all did had huge consequences for the country - yet no interruptions, no name calling and no disrespect.
I am a bit surprised they are arguing so well and amiably.
I think the fact that they all argue so well and amiably magnifies the real tragedy of the left from the 70s onwards. They lost the ability to negotiate and act as a movement. Some of the worst lunges to the left and right could have been avoided with better management. It highlights how truly awful a choice Michael Foot was as leader in 1980 and how awful a choice Corbyn was in 2015.
@@krrainey77 If it were mathematically possible to agree with this comment 1 million % I would do so!
In fact Wilson's only general election win that wasn't close was of course 1966.
How many more general elections would Labour have won had the leadership succession been Wilson, Callaghan, Healey, Owen and then Blair? At least one and probably two more in my opinion.
In an ideal world Wilson, who was politically shrewder than Callaghan, would have stayed on to fight one more election. If Wilson called and won an election in 1978 (the year Callaghan should have dropped the writ) and stepped down as PM in 1980, you might have had something like Healey-Smith-Brown (Callaghan probably perceived as being too old to run by the time Wilson stepped down).
Hugh gaitskail disproves your point
Owen would have had a good chance of a majority in 1992 and a lesser chance of a coalition with the Liberals in 1987. 1983 would have been more like 1979: Healey had a lot of baggage and his personality put many people off, but at least he wasn't Michael Foot, and he wouldn't have approved a hard left manifesto.
Absolutely fascinating. Thanks for this.
Fascinating very enjoyable to watch, all allowed to put their views across without constant interruption. I was lucky enough to see the great Tony Benn at one of his Audience with shows, he was just superb & stood up for what he believed in & had very sharp wit as well Thank you
David Owen looks like a man who blew his chance.
He did - would have been PM in 1987/8
@@rc2869 Possibly. Labour just couldn't afford to lose heavyweights like Owen, Jenkins, and the late, very sadly, Shirley Williams. I've never seen the Labour frontbench have so many lightweights. Fair to say that since the the Brexit cull the Tory frontbench isn't exactly full of heavyweights either.
Absolutely fascinating
Listening to their criticism of Blair and the way Brown became leader, I wonder what they would make of the next two leaders Milliband and Corbyn and the current leadership candidates. I bet Benn would have approved of Corbyn and Owen would have had to leave if he had not previously left.
Oddly enough, Richards has a video...I think it's about the SDP...where he says that Owen had said that some of Corbyn's economic policies were the kind he would have supported were he still in the party (and that he had made a donation to Labour's campaign). Of course, Owen has said a lot of things over the years, so take that with a grain of salt.
I think if David Owen had stayed in the Labour Party he would have probably become leader after the 1983 general election
No, Kinnock was much more popular with most of the party, and was the natural unity candidate.
We're seeing now in the Conservative Party what a bad idea Tony Benn's was to allow party members to elect leaders. It's actually more undemocratic and leads to extremes. Party members cannot be held accountable by the electorate like an MP can, and they are often much more extreme.
When the grown ups were in the room…
What mindless attacks. "You can't try and do too good of things because then the pendulum swings too far back to the bad side." Pathetic politicking.
"WHY DIDN'T YOU SACRIFICE EVERYTHING YOU BELIEVED IN TO TRY AND GET US POWER TONY????'" Hatterslay is awful.
Very interesting!
Brilliant
three men who can each claim the title of "the best prime minister we never had"
AdmiralBlake You must have some stretchy political views if you think all three would have been a good PM.
Quite right, except for Owen and Hattersley of course.
Lol . Are you for real. Hattersley and Owen . No way.
I love Tony Benn. A huge loss to our country
mandatory reselection would transform Labour into one of the most democratic institutions - at the very least on a local level - in the country, and with all the troubles it presents (I get that MPs are worried about being ousted, but then maybe they should be better representatives and earn the respect of their constituents) it would be have tremendous long-term advantages for them.
Viva trotskyism . I remember all this rubbish from the 1980s .
It was reintroduced under Corbyn's leadership under influence by Momentum where each MP's CLP had to re-elect their MP. A confidence motion. It is how David Owen described it as a means for the left to get rid of those they are not politically aligned with & to consolidate power.
One person who wanted the members of the party to control the hierarchy, and two others who believe the hierarchy should control the members.