Boeing 727, Boeing Then vs. Boeing Now
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- Опубликовано: 6 мар 2024
- The Boeing 727 was designed and built with a philosophy that I don't think exists with Boeing management any more, or at least it doesn't exist with the people calling the shots over there.
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Corrections:
Boeing stopped using customer codes in 2016.
That "767" is a 777, it doesn't effect the video though as the flaps are very similar between the two planes. 
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As I young lad in the late seventies (maybe 10 to 12 years of age), I was on a family vacation in Spain. We traveled from Madrid to Malaga on an Iberia Airlines 727 as part of the trip. A close family friend on the trip was a Captain for a U.S. carrier and got us a tour of the flight deck after our departure. As a young kid, I was quiet and just listened to the discusion between the professionals, but somehow I ended up in the jump seat all buckled up. Eventually the family friend returned to his seat in the cabin and left me in the jump seat as we began our descent. I remained quiet but ecstatic as the plane was landed at Malaga. I will never forget the view out of the cockpit window as we made our approach to the runway. It is a cherished memory from my childhood.
Someone attempted to mug me in Malaga. Other than that, cool place.
my guess, they could read the excitement in your face, ha.
In the early 80's i got to sit in the co pilots seat, but in a 747! We were on the way back to London, it too has stuck with me as an amazing experience, I'll never forget and that would never be possible today ☹️
My father was the flight test engineer who flew on the prototype 727 for its certification. He left me with photos of that beautiful yellow bird flying out of Boeing Field in Seattle. One such photo was of that plane just after takeoff ascending at maximum climb angle taken from a chase aircraft. Spectacular performance! The 727 would have remained in service a bit longer if it could have been flown with a flight crew of just two.
In the 727 you don't put down the flaps, you disassemble the wing.
I'm cabin crew, spent many many hours on the 727. Used to joke that sitting in the tail jumpseat when the engines revved slightly out of sync to each other it was like getting an MRI. Flew as a passenger on a British Trident once, but that's just because I'm really quite elderly
I worked hand in hand with Boeing on a number of programs over many years. The decline at Boeing was gradual but obvious.
By the end we had an expression, "If you find a problem with a Boeing product, they don't hire an engineer to fix the problem. Instead Boeing will hire two lawyers to tell you there is no problem with a Boeing product."
"Sign here to say that you agree, that any disputes will be settled in Arbitration (screw that naughty 3rd Branch of Government; "jury of your peers"? Please ) and that you're under gag order if this 'not a problem' rears its ugly head in public.
I spent several years working on 727's as a flight attendant for a major airline in 1990s. It was an excellent plane; built like a tank, and very reliable. It had large galleys and closets; and passengers liked it too.
What an incredibly interesting video, those triple slotted fowler flaps are so gorgeous, your quip about the Trident was hilariously brutal.
That's funny. You may have noticed that was recorded in a different room than most of the video. That's because you're hearing the toned down version.
"I'm disappointed in the Boeing of today" I couldn't agree more. I have nearly 20 years of 727 heavy maintenance experience and there never was a more well built transport aircraft. All of the systems were redundant if not triple redundant. I can't think of a plane I'd rather be in if the chips were down. Boeings design philosophy seemed to change around the 767/757 and has only been downhill. They make planes that are "good enough" but nowhere near the planes from the 747-100/200 on back. I'm sure it was there answer to "economics" driven by competitors and deregulation but as you state in the video they faced economics even back then. 727 was a battle tank and you had to work on it but you could keep it flying forever. We turned out 727's in the late 90's that were like new, probably why Kalletta and others picked them up. It was a very forgiving aircraft. I still maintain aircraft today and my airline phased out the 727-223 in 2002. I still miss it. Thanks for a great vid.
I've worked on that plane in the title !!! I worked for NWA for 20 years, learning the finer points of a sheetmetal mechanic on the 727. There isn't a place in or on that plane i haven't worked. I loved them !
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing :)
I am 57 and was fortunate, as a child, to be raised in an affluent family. We traveled, by air often to visit relatives. Moline to Nashville, via either Chicago or St. Louis. Boeing 727's, 737's and an occasional Douglas. All jet propelled.
For the 727, watching that wing literally come apart on approach and then together again upon climb out. Magnificent!
My last 727 flight was Northwest, Reno to Make Minneapolis. Seats and carpet had been removed from the rear of the cabin. It was this plains last passenger flight. Landing, no firetrucks, no fanfair. Just the Captain's announcement of the last flight and a long look back from him after exiting the jetway.
Thanks for this video...
BfD
My uncle Stan (WW-ll P-51 pilot) started flying TWA DC-3’s after the war and continued with TWA all the way to his retirement (enforced then at age 60). His only breaks from flying came with the occasional “layoffs”.
He talked of the major “washing out” of their pilots when the prop-to-jets conversion came. He survived that change… leaving the “Super-Connie” behind and flying mostly 727’s up to his 60th birthday.
His favorite remained “the Connie” that he referred to as, “the most forgiving”.
He’s gone now, up
“to touch the face of God”.
Ron Smith
P.S. My dad was a flight instructor during WWII; and I have private pilot ticket… owned a 172 for a couple years… but medically disqualified for a long time now… sure do miss it !
Greg, I've been fascinated by your videos for years now. I love aviation and have finally decided to make it my career. I am currently in process of getting my PPL. My written exam is tomorrow. These videos about commercial aircraft are informative and fascinating and I hope we see more in the future.
Good luck on your PPL tomorrow.
Thank you.
Best of luck!
Good luck tomorrow.
Good luck!
An absolute legit skewer of the McDonnell Boeing of today in the last five minutes... THANK YOU.
The 727 has a special place in my heart. I lived near the airport at Long Beach, CA. I was an aviation fanatic from a young age and part of that came from both of my elementary schools being nearly under the approach path of the airport. Nothing made my day more than when a PSA or Western Airlines 727 came roaring over the playground during recess, trailing those good old fashioned JT8D smoke trails.
I grew up in the Seattle Area and have a number of friends that have worked at Boeing on the factory floor. They have all told me that the ground level culture is much the same as its been for the past 50+ years. They have all told me that themselves and the old timer employees they have worked with believe that the merger with Mcdonell Douglas and the absorption of its poor executive leadership (Which prioritized profits and ran Mcdonnel Douglas into the ground) has been the catalyst for most of the problems Boeing has faced. It takes months, years and decades for issues as a result poor culture in an organization to manifest and cause visible harm to that organizations product. Most of my friends that work at Boeing believe the only way to get the Company's commercial airliner division back on track is to do a clean slate rebuild of Boeing higher echelon management back to the pre MD merger norm of Engineers becoming senior leadership and not corporate executives that dont understand the unique mindset and culture that comes with building airplanes.
I have been told the same thing by current and old former Boeing employees. The people who build the planes are good and know their job. Management is the problem.
I spent 13 years flying the 3-holer, 11 of those years as captain. It was a great airplane and a joy to fly.
Hmm, I know a Jim Bonney from DHL Airways.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Must be some other guy. I worked at ASTAR Air Cargo😁
My favourite aeroplane
I have been retired for 15 years now but I flew jets for a living for 38 years. Thirteen of those years were in the 727, with the years spread among all three cockpit seats. It is my favorite airplane and a heck of a machine. It had delightful fllying qualities, was superbly designed and beautifully crafted. And it could take a licking and keep on ticking - it always got you back onto the ground with a reuseable aircraft. Thanks for the memories!!
I was a mechanic on a 727 for many years and then became a Flight Engineer. The 2 biggest problems with the original 727's were the APU door. The APU had and exhaust door that opened up on the right wing when operating. Many problems with the door and switch. Later they removed the door and installed louvers. Another problem with the original 727's were the thrust reversers. They finally modified that problem.
In 1980 after high school I worked at Astech Engineering in California. I did the rough fabrication of the thrust reverser clam shells for 727s. Lots of them. And similar work fabricating the engine nacelles and tail cones for the early 757 and 767. Fun times.
I began my career at TWA as a structural mechanic at the Kansas City maintenance base in 1989. The 727s were already long in the tooth, and we were doing extensive work to satisfy the FAA "aging aircraft" directives. We changed the lower fuselage skins forward of the wing, and opened up the lap seams down the sides of the fuselage to inspect and clean out corrosion. It was a BIG job. They had one crew do a remove, inspect, and replace the four "milk bottle" bolts that were the main wing-fuselage attachments. Very expensive, difficult, and time-consuming. They only did one airplane, and decided they weren't worth keeping them anymore. When the noise regulations came out requiring hush kits, TWA decided to retire their fleet of 727s in favor of newer MD-80s.
Thanks for this video. My grandfather flew 727's for PanAm in the late 60's/early 70's. From flying the Stratocruiser, DC-6's and DC-7's, the 727 was his favorite
Hello Greg,
I enjoyed your video on the 727. Great information.
I flew for Mexicana Airlines starting in 1975 as a Flight Engineer on the 727-100.
Six months later I was upgraded to First Officer and then after only five years I was Captain.
I flew the 727 a total of 17 years and and about 6,000 hours until 1992.
Then I started flying the Boeing 757 and 767 and finally the Airbus 320.
I retired in 2007 at 60 years age.
The airplane I enjoyed the most flying was the Boeing 727.
In Mexicana Airlines since the 1980’s we had 727-200 equipped with JATOS to comply with the second segment after take off in case of an engine failure in high altitude airports (Mexico City).
Six rockets, three on each side under fuselage behind the wing.
When the JATOS expired (when not used), we would fire them in training flights (not simulator) simulating engine failures.
Thanks for your videos.
Yours
Cap. Mariano Travesi
Great video Greg. My dad flew for Western/Delta and as a non-rev I swear i flew on every 727 in big W's fleet. I always remember the takeoff acceleration was always just a little bit extra. Another 10/10 on a classic. Thanks Greg!!
Greg, you are spot on about Boeing not caring like they used to. I know for a fact the MD merger was its massive trip up, especially allowing them run all management. Its a shame but now a lot of my buddies who are being put on newer birds (especially the newest 777) referred to them as DC-10s with a 777 label. Very sad indeed
When PSA was around, with many 727s, catching a plane on the West Coast was like catching a bus. A plane was leaving to your city every hour. The rear stairs made deplaning much faster than today. In those days Boeing was the safest plane ride. Boeing today is a good example why you don't let the accounts manage the business. Product quality is hard to put on paper.
I flew a Caravelle from Cleveland, Ohio to Pittsburgh, PA. Beautiful airplane, nice comfortable interior. The difference between the Boeing (and most other companies surviving the decades) of the 727 days and today was that top management was focused on product(s) and not obsessed with stock manipulation. There is little interest in actual manufacturing since it can be outsourced to the lowest bidder; the "art of management" is bolstering stock, stock buy back, and tax implications. Thanks for your report.
Greg, this is one of the most fascinating videos you have published (and I've watched almost all of them).
You've highlighted and analyzed highly important points that are more relevant now than ever before.
It's an interesting direction for your channel, please continue.
I remember as a young boy flying alone to visit dad I loved Continental 727s and watching the wing flaps moving about. That takeoff performance was exciting too.
I am a really lucky pilot, I have flown on the B727 for nearly 10 years and it still ranks first among all the planes I have flown.
The 727 was built like a tank I was a mechanic for years on the 727 in the 80s and 90s
Boeing used to be an airplane company, run by engineers and pilots, that sought to build the best possible product.
Boeing today is basically a financial entity that happens to make airplanes, run by accountants and lawyers that seek to make the highest possible profit margin.
When you are a publicly traded stock, your board of directors is under the gun of "responsibility to the share holders". This prioritizes profit margin over quality.
Back when the great companies were formed, they lived and died by the quality of their products.
Boeing once basically said, "We pay our people more than our competitors, but make such a good airplane that airlines will still line up to pay more for it." and it was true. It's so sad and disappointing that nobody would believe it today.
Hi Gregg. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I operated, flew on as FE, and maintained a 100 series ex brannif plane for over 13 years, all over the world. Such a gracious old lady who never let us down. We did all our own C checks, engine changes etc in house, and the plane was one of the cheapest corporate jets we owned, even accounting for all the aging programs, corrosion programs etc. I love this plane. I spent many happy hours in the cockpit, and enjoyed every trip. Cheers
John.
In 1976 I rode on a Caravelle from Titograd to Belgrade in former Yugoslavia on JAT airlines. I was only six but I distinctly remember the triangular windows. I’ve also ridden on the 727 many times. Very nice and very fast plane. Great videos btw. Thanks!
The "3 holer" has to be one of the most pretty jet liners in history. That classic Boeing nose, the beautiful wing planform, (w/slats and awesome flaps), as well as the centerline thrust of the 3 engines.... they looked strong, fast, and safe. Modern twins, if you do have an engine out have to fly on only 50% thrust rather than the 66% in the trijet. A great design and a Great aircraft!
We have an entire 727 cockpit at my school in Orlando. Very cool to sit in the flight engineer seat. And it's a huge departure from modern glass cockpit stuff.
The years and thousends of hours on the 727 were the best years in my 45 years flying carreer. 3 in the cockpit outweighs any super duper auto system. My mind always come back to the 727 when I compare to more modern aircrafts I flew before my retirement, it was the best.
Doors and hatches are no joke on pressurized aircraft. When I was at Delta I saw 3 contractors fired on the spot and walked out for acidentally untourqing the bolts on the bulk cargo door mounts. Those tolerances are so critical and percise that they had to have engineers evaulate it for repair.
I still remember my single flight on a 727 with Air Canada in the 1970s. I distinctly recall the takeoff thrust! It was very high performance and the aggressive rotation was pretty cool too!
The 737 used to be a great aircraft until Boeing committed mass murder on the MAX. I've flown on the MAX and they have a distinctive landing characteristic where there is a slim tolerance in flaring the landing.
Thanks for a great video!
Andy, from Canada.
Former 727 driver here… Your flight engineer was having an off day if the APU fire light illuminated inflight - it, normally, meant that he forgot to shut the APU down before takeoff. Yes… She was fast. We had the last birds off the assembly line. They had the Valsan conversion to JT-8D-217 engines - LOTS of thrust. We “barber poled” everywhere back then. We would often get into Mach buffet “unintentionally”😆👨✈️.
I have heard that if you retrofit with mpodern style winglets you gt the same roll coeficient as the F-14
@@gkiltz0 Now THAT’S one I’ve never heard!
My favorite airplane
Flyer, not driver. Driving is for business. Traveling is for personal. Constitutionally.
Sounds like a vibe
My first commercial flight was on a 727 KC to Denver in 1976. What a cool aircraft. It's still my favorite with the 757 being close behind.
Flew 727's a lot of times on many airlines that don't exist today. I really miss those days compared todays airlines. Now I try not to fly if I can help it, it's just not the same. The airlines, fellow passengers and in flight services are dismal at best.
I’m not as educated as the other commenters here, but I’ve always had so much love and interest in all Boeing aircraft, and it’s beyond heartbreaking (also sickening) what Boeing has become.
I worked around the 727 in 1966. I was always impressed with the wing. It was a neat airplane. You are right about the type of thinking then and now. The slide rule guys knew what they were doing. The engineers from that era were the best since they built the pyramids.
The computer screen, numerical methods and modeling killed engineering design….
I flew on B727 in 2002 on my honeymoon out of DFW on Champion Airlines. That aircraft was a rocket just like the B757. They later flew that same aircraft into the desert to simulate a crash test. I still have the flight information plus tail number to confirm this. I now work as a ramp tower control and get to see lots of old aircraft going to cargo. DFW still has a 727 on display at our FTRC if you want to see one in person.
Your video is the best on the 727 subject. I love you mentioning about the importance of wing design. Most people only see the fuselage as being a plane. But it is the wings that fly, the wings are the aircraft. The fuselage is a negative factor causing drag and adding weight,. We added that tube only for cargo and passengers, and a neat way to connect the tail plane🙂
The wing is indeed the advantage of the Airbus today…. How things have changed.
I lived in Micronesia in the mid 70s. We had one land in front of our house on a dirt runway once every day. They would lower the rear steps to deplane. It was REALLY loud but so much fun to watch it land only a few hundred free from our front door. My dad took me up the steps once to meet the captains.
According to friends of mine who were engineers at Boeing at the time, the company culture changed after it purchase McD, and not for the better. One friend put it this way: Before the merger, Boeing was an engineering company that sold airplanes. After the sale it was an airplane sales company that hired engineers.
Greg, just fyi, you got me into flying. 😃 I'm working on my glider cert then going powered. If you read this, I would love to see a video on gliding. I'm sure you could find some sort of historic angle that people would find fascinating. Take care, J.
Wow, thanks, that's quite a compliment. The only glider stuff I have talked about is in the Me163 series. Even then, it's not much.
As I recall, 727s were prone to crashing due to stalling on final approach. As I understood it, if a crew was too low, and wanted to extend an approach, they pulled the nose up, sometimes excessively so. That worked fine unless there were small, circular, low pressure cells due to weather (rainy, windy). The wind of a small low pressure cell might be blowing briskly on the nose one minute, but quickly the opposite side of the small, circular low would be blowing on the tail, due to movement of the cell across the path of the airplane. The wind could quickly change from blowing on the nose to blowing on the tail. It was a rapid change of indicated airspeed of 2x wind velocity (indicated airspeed decreased very quickly as the wind changed direction 180 degrees. and blew on on the tail). Reminds me of a saying from back in the day. "Young Buck stood on the burning deck, as naked as the mast pole. He knew the low was on his left, cause the wind blew up his @ssholle." This 180 degree change in wind direction in a very short period of time could be enough to stall the airplane, which went in, short of the the runway. It was advised to fly a little faster on final, as I recall, in those kinds of weather conditions. Being very attentive to indicated airspeed was good in those weather conditions. Dang. That was a long time ago. Many many years ago it was my impression that "Windshear" referred to Clear Air Turbulence, where the interface of two air masses, one going up and the other going down, could break up an airplane at high altitude. It seemed like the terminology changed at some point. It seems like the term windshear made more sense referring to the actual shearing conditions that could occur at high altitude, but now Windshear applies to the small, low pressure cell phenomenon, usually on final. Anyway. My Dad could predict when the wind would change, to within less than a minute. He'd say watch. The wind is about to change direction. I've seen him do it. I miss him. It seemed that later the term windshear was changed to mean what I described above, with the small. low pressure cells swirling around in rainy, windy conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong on the evolution of the terminology. I found it confusing for awhile.
Living near Glasgow Airport I saw [ and heard] Tridents several times a day - I can't remember seeing a 727 although I'm sure I must have.
I love your channel Greg ! The “767” photo you used to discuss wings , flaps, etc. is a 777 . To be fair , I could identify planes , as a child, before many people could see them . I lived on the downwind leg of what were 18L&R in Tampa , in the 60’s -80’s ; flights coming up from Miami , Ft.Lauderdale , Ft.Meyers even Sarasota , for a time , were served by 727s of National and Eastern Airlines .As a child , I could here planes on the the downwind , because of how loud they were, well before they’d arrive at a point above my home, especially the 727 ; but only when fully configured for landing ; however, occasionally, a hotshot pilot would come over low and probably just under 250 , leaving me no time to run outside to catch a glimpse as he began his left base, making it hard to imagine how he’d slowed and configured the thing to land ; but , 72’s could do that, and probably the only type that could .
Dammit, you're right, that's a 777 and I said 767. Anyway, the correction has been added to the video description and the flap designs are about the same anyway so it doesn't effect the video content. The 727s could slow down really fast, so we could the outer marker at pretty high speeds and still land with no problem.
I grew up in the Canadian arctic. I had many flights on Pacific Western Airlines 727's. I believe at least one was a combi. There was something cool about boarding via the back stairs. I still consider it the most beautiful airliner ever made. It wasn't bad inside but it was ear splitting loud from the ground on takeoff. In the deep of winter, you could clearly hear that thing blast off, all the way from town...almost 10 miles away.
Boeing's downhill spiral started when they merged with McDonnell Douglas and kept their (McDonnell Douglas) management.
I loved the presentation. However, being a former B727 Instructor and Check Airman and pilot, I have to disagree with your reason for the APU Ground Only Limitation. When the B727-100 was initially made, the only location that an APU could be placed was in the wheel well area. Being only inches from the center fuel tank, FAA required the APU to be shrouded in a Stainless Steel cover and the operation be limited to Ground Ops. Only. This was for fire safety. Therefore, any time the Ground/Air sensor was activated, the power to the APU starter solenoid would be cutoff. So APU could not be started after liftoff. However, if the APU was not shut down before take off, it would continue operating for the remainder of the flight. Many second officers/flight engineers still remember those flights and often never told the Captain.
Shocking True Life Tales! But aside from potential APU-related dangers from not strictly following the checklists, wasn't it a great "pilot's" airplane? That advanced/complex WING with all those leading-edge slats and triple-slotted flaps and spoilers and "supercritical" airfoil, etc. and all 3 engines near/on the centerline for little to no yaw on engine-out scenarios... just seems like a LOT of "brain-sweat" went into the design. The FedEx pilots, not having passengers to worry about, really hot-rodded around in those '27s... _allegedly!_
I'm only saying that it worked in the sim and on paper. It could be that not all models had the air:ground sensors wired the same way.
We may have known each other in IR. That was a great picture of IRT!!!!!!! Mike Jaureguy/F/E
I love the 727 but I feel Boeing reached it's peak with the 757.🥰🤗. Today's Boeing, (2024), is a shadow of it's former self. It's Boeing in name but McDonnell Douglas at heart.😮😞
I found the video to be most interesting. My father and brother were pilots on both the B707 and B727 and flew them for many years without any major incidents. However, if you lived near a European airport during the 60s and 70s you would see lots of Tridents, Caravelles and BAC 1-11s, though the majority medium range aircraft would probably have been the B727.
The plane that came with its own staircase. I remember boarding PSA in 1972, Ontario-SanDiego.
Funny how pilots called them "seven-two's" and Boeing engineers called them "two-sevens".
(Back in the 1990's my cousin was a pilot and I was a Boeing engineer.)
Great video, as always, Greg. I like the occasional video that isn't just the same format or subject. Variety is the spice of life. Thanks
The 727 is the most beautiful jet airliner ever made. At least to me.
🤓 💯 🤓
New company slogan should be …“Boeing, we used to build good airplanes”
Been saying for a few years now that the company needs to do two things...stop playing around with space projects like Starliner and STS to focus on building airplanes, and also move the headquarters back to Seattle.
Bovine excrement my friend. All Boeing models are good airplanes. Too bad that isn't also true for their operators eh!
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wp you can have the best designed aircraft in the world, but if they’re not put together properly that hardly qualifies as a good aircraft 😂
Boeing today is "a finance company that happens to build airplanes". That's what happened to Boeing.
That's exactly why mister boeing left company.
Yep, I work for a finance company that happens to build cars. I know the feeling.
"I'm disappointed in the Boeing of today," Might just be the most relatable statement of the decade to come from your channel, Greg.
Perhaps they should have been less focused on SLS and more so on their aircraft.
Thanks Central.
The phrase should be, I’m disappointed in the government of the day. They are causing the issues, not the good guys over Boeing.
I remember reading an engineering book on the plane, one of the main things it was optimized for was landing at LGA. Of course the airstair didn't get much use after D.B. Cooper exited it in flight.
I'm an International traveler. I always hang back when exiting a plane to thank and congradulate the Pilot for an excellent job in getting me to my destination. 😊
The Boeing 727 procured a very smooth ride, second to the French Caravelle, and the softest landings, due to similar wing shapes. In the sixties and seventies, they were my two favorite planes. The planes that came after were brutal, in comparison. I flew on the opening flight from London to Nice in 1959, and by mere luck boarded the last flight of a Caravelle for Air France, between Marseilles and Paris Charles de Gaulle, in the seventies or early eighties. After the lightest landing ever, when the passengers finished cheering and applauding, the captain made an announcement: « Ladies and gentlemen, you will never again in all your life experience such a landing: this was the last flight of Caravelle for Air France, and this was my last flight as a pilot. This is my retirement day. » Very emotional.
Very impressive resume, way to go mate !
Never thought of becoming a pilot but i was fortunate to work in the Aerospace industry for 15 years here in Montreal at Bombardier Aerospace which used to be privately owned by Canadair LTD. My dad worked at Canadair from 1941 to 1984 and he held a high position as Director down in Machine shop & was also responsible for about 150 imspectors in Quality Control & Quality Assurance ! We had many different contracts with a variety of Companies such as Airbus A330, Nose cone on the FA-18 Hornet. Our Cl215/415 Waterbomber & our own Canadair Challenger 604-3A. I also remember having many different Boeing jobs, sub contracts ! What we see now happening with Boeing is quite shocking & was completely unheard ! I clearly remember and it wasn't too long ago when Boeing would never cut corners especially removing inportant inspection operations when under no circomstances would just never happen ! I remember seeing People from boeing being in our shops on a regular basis & whenever we had new contracts / sub-contracts it wasn't unheard of having engineers / employees working with us for many months just to ensure quality / quality assurance.
Incidents seem to be happening on a weekly basis now at Boeing & now this whistleblower found dead is beyond belief. I do not see other way around having to ground every single 737 Max & 777X grounded until they fix all their safety issues. If or when this happens Boeing wound be able to recover from this !
It was an amazing aircraft. I was a younger mechanic when I jumped from GA(general aviation) to CA(commercial aviation) and started heavy maintenance on 727’s. Rugged, dependable, safe reliable, and very very easy to work on. Such a well thought out and designed aircraft for the operator and the end user passengers. One of my fondest memories is removing the nose landing gear brake systems from the 727 - 100s to save weight when our company sold them to FedEx. FedEx at the time was still operating falcon jets I went on several LAF (local acceptance flights) after a heavy maintenance check(D, five year inspection). Our dedicated test pilots really put the airplane through its spaces right up through stall warnings flaps no flaps, gearedgear down, gear up, high speed with the the clicker raging , manual gear extensions (manual cranking and visual check’s for locked and down)and plain hand flying in slow flight(the inboard ailerons were awesome, were mechanically locked out with flaps retracted) so well designed. Just a fantastic airplane. What really amazes me even to this day is how few discrepancies there were after this test flight after being totally disassembled, repaired and put back together.
I experienced some horrible weather in a 727. Even the flight attendants were white-knuckling the arms of their seats. After we managed to get on the ground through heavy rain and wind, I was convinced the 727 was one hell of a well-built aircraft. I'm sure I took over a hundred flights on the 727. I love that plane.
It was fine. I flew in 1970 & 80.
Always, ALWAYS say no when the examiner asks if you want to try anything else in the sim. 😂
Skorno gets it.
In my 23 years as an A&P, I worked on many airframes, but my favorite airliner was and will always be the B-727. The only system I hated was the aileron mixer - rigging that thing was a real PITA.
That 727 is still mounted indoors on the second floor the museum of science and industry in Chicago. You can walk around and occasionally sit in the pikot's seat. They used to have pilots there discussing the aircraft with visitors on the weekends. It's a really cool exhibit.
I would totally agree with you on that Boeing Company is not what it used be. I am a Boeing brat. My dad worked for the old Boeing Company from February 2, 1959 to July 31, 1995.
I'd fly on a 727 before I'd get on a new 737.
Back in the 70’s when I was a new hire FE at Braniff Airways one of the crotchety old CA’s maintained that the limiting factor for airspeed in the 727 was “speaker volume”. I didn’t quite comprehend until I became an FO and discovered while generally the 727 has a quiet cabin, the shape of the nose/windshield/cockpit area was probably where the airframe went transonic first. Same for the KC-135 and 737 which I flew later in my career.
UPS bought some old 727s and got he airframe zeroed out and intalled RR Tay engines. basically a new aircraft . I worked on a few of them in Cologne Germany UPS hub. it has 2 man glass cockipit HUD display.
How long ago was that? I'm sure they're not in the fleet anymore. 😢
Wow your video brings back distant memories. I was a flight attendant with TWA and Eastern airlines and worked the 727’s very often. I remember the DB Cooper switch being called the gust lock when I was at TWA. Great video thanks.
An old workhorse. Best seller until the 737. Interesting video. I didn't know all that. Thanks! All my friends began their airline careers in the cockpit of one as well. All ex-military pilots. Still holds up as the sportiest looking airliner today. Those all computer crafts scare me. Computers crash.
The DH Trident and BAC One-Eleven were knee-capped by UK Government policy allowing BEA dictating size.
The Trident was so closely tailored to BEA passenger capacity and routes it was unattractive to other airlines.
Like the Trident the BAC One-Eleven was limited by the thrust of the RR Spey which has essentially a intended military engine for the Blackburn Buccaneer.
The One-Eleven would have sold in the better in the North American market but was the target of US protectionism.
British airliners of this generation were the first to have sophisticated autoland
The first time I ever flew on a plane was on a 727 on November 20, 1971. I remember the date, because it was the date that I was drafted into the US Army and was flown from the induction center at Butte, Montana to SeaTac International Airport on my way to Fort Lewis, WA for basic training. The airport in Butte was a very small facility, and was a perfect case for the 727. We boarded via the rear staircase. Despite the circumstances, it was a magical experience. I have had a soft spot for the 727 ever since.
I am extremely disheartened and frightened by what is coming out of the Boeing woodwork.
That man did not commit suicide the day before his third testimony against Boeing....
We have airplanes falling apart in mid-air along with wheels falling off at takeoff.
As a Captain for a major US carrier and the son of a Boeing flight crew training captain I could not agree more. Boeing today is not the same company that my father worked for. Before he died, he would put the blame solely on the McDonald Douglas buy out in the early 1990's were almost all of the upper management of Boeing was replaced by MD management which resulted in a complete company culture change.
I have no idea how much validity there is to this, but I've heard that apparently the old original McDonnell guys had the same complaint when they merged with Douglas about 30 years earlier. At least for their commercial division, the McDonnell guys were replaced with Douglas guys and caused a similar sort of detrimental shakeup.
John McDonnell became chairman of McDonnell Douglas and joined the Boeing board after the merger. Many felt he was overly tight fisted about spending money.@@ChrisSmith-mi2zo
I hung out at Half Moon Bay Airport a lot during my misspent youth. Once in a while KSFO woud fog over, but KHAF would be open. I'd ride down to KHAF on a Saturday morninon my '50 Panhead (which I still have today), expecting a normal day of operations, and the whole field would be full of PSA Electras and 727s. Great times. Later I flew on a PSA (Poor Sailor's Airline) to boot camp in Sandy Eggo. Saw the Convair Sea Dart sitting in the water at a nearby dock (ISYN) as we took off, back to home. Fast Forward. Rode an Alaska Airlines 727 to Juneau in 1989. Special mission for Alaska DEQ. Got a ride to Stika. Juneau was snowed in on the way back. Two missed approaches. The pilot told us that he could see the runway on the missed, and would attempt a downwind landing. He f**king nailed it. Awright. Yeah, the 727 was a pretty great airplane, IMHO.
Do you know Ken McCrary from Swanton?
Quality doesn't cost. It pays.
The comparison between Boeing of yore and Boeing now is 100% spot on, zero exceptions. Hence, I'm going to post this on my 'X' account with Boeing in mind because they must realize just had badly the company has lost it's once awesome 'Mojo' to greed (i.e. via shortcuts), over it's once true 'Dedication to Excellence' as evidenced by it's "Magnificent B-727".
* My two personal favorite jetliners - The Boeing 727 and Lockheed L-1011.
A couple of corrections. Greg claimed that db cooper-style hijackings were never successfully attempted after cooper, but in fact db cooper inspired many hijackings even within a year he did his stunt. many of these were more successful than cooper, since they got the money and survived the parachuting, although they were apprehended afterwards. Second correction is about Greg claiming that foreign airliners were cheaper, but that 727 was just inherently so good that it was worth the price... while the inherent goodness of 727 is up to opinion, in general, the french and british airliners of comparable performance were more expensive at that time. Their labour costs were cheaper, yes, but after the war the european economies were so far behind usa in terms of production efficiency, manufacturing costs and especially material and fuel costs, that in general most of their technologically advanced products like jet airliners were much more expensive than the american counterparts. You can find certain transactions where the europeans sold cheaper than they should have just to keep their businesses going, but in general unlike the modern day, it was always much safer to put your money into american products as that economy had such an overwhelmingly advantageus position at that point in time that you could trust that they would keep supporting their products and not face bankruptcy or some kind of disaster like european businesses often did. And the americans knew how advantageus their position was and even publicly planning on supporting foreign products over american counterparts in technologically important areas would likely get you an angry call from the president like what happened when american airline companies said that they would buy the concorde. In modern days there are many other comparably stable and competitive economies other than usa. It is a fundamentally different situation and capitalistic companies are simply reacting to it.
Maybe you have a different idea of "successful". Of the DB Cooper copycats I think only one or two actually bailed out of the plane and in any case all were caught. I don't call that successful.
I thought DB Cooper may have survived so if it was a success is debatable but if it worked it likely worked.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles
Well, your exact wording was "no body ever duplicated db coopers hijacking again.", which is just wrong as pretty much all parts, except being forever lost when parachuting into a storm cloud, was duplicated many times successfully. copycats probably just had gotten smarter about storm clouds. Also, you implied heavily that the "cooper vane", as it was called, was useless, as you said that "it didn't matter" and continued to say that they started removing these devices in the 90s. I'd say that the "cooper vane" was definitely relevant and clever solution to an ongoing problem of continuous cooper-style hijackings at the time. ps. I acknowledge that it isin't a perfect solution, just a deterrent. As you said, it can be bypassed by a clever individual and even made ineffective while landed to remove passengers and get the money and parachute.
I mIss flying in a 727, and I was especially astounded in the afternoon staircase, which I used to board one at DFW, if memory serves me. I learned a lot from this, Greg. Thanks!
I was lucky enough to fly as a passenger on the Caravel, Trident and 727 (and the BAC111 great little plane). All three were very quiet, especially if you sat towards the front. I well remember my first 727 flight, the wing looked not much different to the Trident until it was time to land, things came out of everywhere. I remember a flight back from Germany on a Lufthansa 727 and being handed a newspaper with the front page containing that photograph of a 727 just before it crashed.
I have flown on nearly every successful plane mentioned in this video. I loved flying on the 727 more than all the rest put together!! It was obvious to me this was and remains the best plane Boeing ever made for wide use. It was fast and the wing was a work of art & engineering science!! It could grow more than any other wing ever made and cleaned up a solid .90 mach racer! I was fortunate enough to study and pass the FEX writtens. Because I wanted to!! I wanter to fly these things but never got to fly 121. This is an excellent video about a really great jetliner!! Thank you!!
The first time I flew on a 727 in the '70's what was most notable was the steep climbout and inside the cabin it seemed as if I were looking uphill.
This just reminded me that I have debarked a plane from the rear stairs! Forgot all about that!
Without a doubt the Boeing 727 was and still is the most beautiful airliner ever made. A sleek work of art in commercial aviation.
Boeing like a lot of US corporations is being run by Beancounters. What needs to happen is that corporations NEED to be LEAD by executives that LOVE the products that they are producing. If upper management would create and maintain loyalty from the people who build the aircraft, inspect the work done building the aircraft and the ENGINEERING PEOPLE(computers don't look at something and get a GUT FEELING about it being wrong) who design the aircraft you would reduce the risk of DOORS flying off.
If the executives at Boeing loved airplanes, they would live where they are being built. Instead they moved away from the manufacturing facilities to Chicago.
I did a short stint as a UPS plane loader in the early 00's and one of the planes I loaded was a 727. The other one was a modern A300. It was night and day differences on everything, even the interior. I much preferred loading the 727. Despite being a cargo plane it had actual interior paneling instead of exposed everything.
very very interesting and well put together ! and just as important, you are very easy to listen to. keep up the great work !
So, as an engineering nerd most of my life (Star Trek really got me into science and engineering at age 4) and a plane enthusiast, I had personally always found the 727 to be the prettiest of all the triple engine jets. When I started really learning about physics and how wings worked, it made me fall in love with the 727 even more. Companies really pushed a lot more boundaries back in the day. And the fact they did it with slide rules and hand drawn blueprints for the most part is mind blowing. And today, Boeing struggles to build their bread-and-butter or advanced civilian aircraft correctly. It is a shame to be honest. Also, I am so down for more videos like this that mix some technical with historical and business insight as well.
My very first flight on a 727 was at the right rear of the cabin, and I had a front row seat to those enormous flaps. I remember thinking at the time they had somehow hidden an entire wing inside the other wing.
Greg. I appreciate the videos. My Dad worked for approx 35 years at United Airline's Maintenance Center in San Francisco. He did just about everything but many of the years, he ran the test cell for the 727 engines until the late '90's. He started his career as a flight engineer in the Navy in the late '50's and flew Airborne Early Warning in Super Connie's between Midway Island and Alaska from '60 -early '64. Hearing you in the videos reminds me of all the stories he used to share. THANK YOU!
I miss the 727. I don’t see them too often anymore
Great video Greg. I still have cargo (and zero-G) 727s come into the fbo where I work fairly frequently. many of the photos you used are of planes that I know well. Simply my favorite airliner. One of these days however its going to be the last time that I see one, and that saddens me already.
For any pilot who actually enjoys the physical manipulation of an aircraft, the 727 is an absolute joy. Probably the last airliner designed with the pilot in mind. A marvelous bit of engineering. Pilots who loved flying, could actually navigate without a magenta line, and look out the windscreen to land never left her for the heavies.
Amen
"....pseudo-intellectual managers....." Love it!