Thanks for continuing the Augsburg series even though you admit it doesn't get as many views as you would hope. It's a great series, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing more about a confessional Lutheran view on eschatology as it can often be an ignored subject matter within our circles.
This was an excellent commentary on Lutheran Eschatology. I have very much been enjoying your video series on the Articles of the Augsburg Confession. Thank you. In honor of your dedication to men's fashion, I will wear a jacket & tie in my next video!
Nice job as always, Dr. Cooper. I have always been someone who believed in hell as a place of eternal suffering, however, I'm starting to think that annihilationism may be consistent with Scripture. Need to study more. Of course, this topic must always be far more than a mere academic subject. It's about where we will spend eternity and what that eternity will be like. Very sobering to think about.
Please don’t be uncomfortable-a jacket and even a tie can be too much in the not summer. Yes, you look sharp in a suit but it’s your teaching I’m here for.
11:35 I really think that the Early Church's view of Abraham's Bosom, is the most Biblical understanding of what happens after death. That is to say, that believers are escorted by Angels into that part of Sheol that is called Abraham's Bosom, or Paradise, where they await the Resurrection of their bodies, in the Presence of the LORD and all His saints. The biggest objection to this view, is usually, that Paul says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. But this objection forgets the words of the Psalmist who wrote, "Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!" And, if we remember the words of our Lord, when He said to the thief, "Today you shall be with Me in Paradise." And yet our Lord did not ascend to Heaven until _after_ His Resurrection, but as the Creed says, He descended into Hades (that is, into Sheol). The only other objection really, is that the souls of the Martyrs in Revelation, are seen under the Altar of the LORD, but this can be answered in two ways. Either Martyrs are an exception, and ascend to the Altar of the LORD, _or_ the Altar is another way of referring to Abraham's Bosom, and how that place is viewed by God, and the fact that the Souls are "beneath the Altar" refers to them not being in Heaven, in the sense that one usually means it, but they are, in some spiritual sense "beneath" the Altar of Heaven.
I understand what you say about the development of Mariology. my sister-in-law is Catholic and she has a devotion to Mary because for her, God, the father and God the son feel very far away from her.
32:07 Hinduism has a similar belief that, during the end of this age, Kalki the 10th Incarnation of Vishnu will come to restore the balance between good and evil. He will bring judgement and wrath.
"we can be a soul without a body for a time". What is the soul? What's interesting is that some of these biblical concepts are best understood only in modern times. The soul exists without the body, when the body is resurrected the soul is reunited with it. Creatures without a soul are not resurrected on the last day. Simple: the soul is our backup file. Neural networks like the brain are terribly complex and you essentially have to capture the entire state down to the molecular level, continuously, in order to back it up. (Which may imply that Sheol, in some way, is a "sandbox" virtual environment which keeps the soul sane while waiting the resurrection).
Dr. Cooper, as regard theories of mind and body (and the ontology of creation in general), would you come down firmly on the side of something like substance dualism, or would you see other positions (excluding materialism/physicalism) as possibilities i.e., neutral monism? (My advisor in college, Angus Menuge (a staunch dualist), gave me a copy of Thomas Nagel’s Mind and Cosmos: Why the Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature Is Almost Certainly False my senior year, and I’ve always found the neutral monist ontology of creation fascinating to toy with as a result as an alternative to dualism that may alleviate some of dualism’s riddles, e.g., the nature of mind-body interaction.)
Hey, I've been thinking about the amillennial approach and was wondering if we could understand "the Day of the Lord" as being the "thousand year reign of Christ/bound devil". If the Day of the Lord is seen as the Visitation of God, Judgement/Redemption, or the reign of God; then could we say that everywhere and everywhen God defeats sin, death and the devil, there is the "thousand years" and the Day of the Lord; with the Final Day of the Lord at the end of the world?
I don't think its hard to draw the line between the medieval Dies irae view of Christ and the development (and acceptance) of philosophical nominalism, they were scared to death!
I don't mind him not wearing a collar for his videos. He's not really acting as our pastor in these, more as a theological professor. Sticking with a shirt and tie is just visually illustrative of that.
Annihilation is an eternal punishment -- they don't stop being non-existent. And some people find that concept far more terrifying than living forever in constant pain. I don't think it "solves" any moral questions about how God could be good and still punish people. I think death is intuitively the ultimate punishment, and an extremely slow, unimaginably painful death is plausibly the perfectly just punishment for any sin. Ultimately I think that people should believe in whichever idea sounds scarier to them. But even then, your motivation to remain faithful should be the goodness of God and not the fear of punishment anyway.
On premillennialism you said roughly "I don't see room for a 1000 year reign in between the current age and the age to come". I think this is a misunderstanding. The millennial kingdom is the age to come itself. The new Earth is definitely less talked about in the Bible than the millennial kingdom.
I'm always amused when theological scholars take the most symbolic interpretation of a passage, neglecting the plain meaning. St Peter is pretty clear: God's going to make the Sun go nova.
The return of Jesus has been prophecized since the putative Jesus himself. Over two millennia of failed predictions have not deterred a new generation of gullible believers that suchma return is imminent. Of course there would need to have been an actual Jesus Christ for this person to return.
Your just a late-comer. You are squawking about a non-issue. Matthew chapter 24 talks about all the things that will happen when the son comes again. Jesus in verse 36 said: No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,g but only the Father. The predictions were by people who didn't read the bible, or who were cults.
@@leef_me8112 The irony of referring to people being in cults just drips from your comment. The entirety of Christianity is some form or another of a cult.
EDIT: I typed all this up, whilst listening to the video, and then at the end, Dr. Cooper affirmed that there are in fact Lutherans who hold to Premillennialism. 😅 I decided to post it anyway, so others can interact with my reasoning, and perhaps iron can sharpen iron. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It would seem to me that Article XVII does not _necessarily_ rule out Historic Premillennialism, though admittedly it seems to imply that it is wrong. Is this intentional? The reason I say this, is because as an Historic Premillennialist, I can affirm all "5 points" of Article XVII, as long it is understood to be a summary of events that will take place, and allows for some nuance. For instance: *1. "Also they teach that at the Consummation of the World Christ will appear for judgment,"* Historic Premillennialists affirm that Christ will appear in judgement at the Consummation of the World. However, this Consummation, also called the Last Day, is not to be thought of as a Day as humans reckon it, but for the LORD a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day. And so, Christ's return is the beginning of the Last Day. *2. and will raise up all the dead; He will give to the godly and elect eternal life and everlasting joys,* Historic Premillennialists also affirm that when Christ returns He will raise up all the dead. The Righteous are raised in the First Resurrection, at the beginning of the Last Day, and receive eternal life and everlasting joys. The ungodly however are not raised until the end of the Last Day. *3. but ungodly men and the devils He will condemn to be tormented without end.* Historical Premillennialists affirm that at the end of the Last Day when the ungodly are raised up, that they, along with the devils will be condemned, and thrown into the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented without end. *4. They condemn the Anabaptists, who think that there will be an end to the punishments of condemned men and devils.* I think most Historic Premillennialists would affirm this point too. Especially if what it is denying is some kind of eventual Universal Atonement. Although, I think some may hold to an eventual annihilation, which Dr. Cooper addresses in the video as being the specific Anabaptist doctrine in view here (I wonder though, is that specified somewhere, or just what Dr. Cooper thinks is being addressed?). I do know the most Annihilationists would disagree with the language of there being "an and to the punishments of condemned men and devils", as they would argue that the punishment does not end, as the damned are destroyed forever. Personally, however, I believe Scripture teaches the Eternal Conscious Torment of the Ungodly, so I can affirm this "point" fully. *5. They condemn also others who are now spreading certain Jewish opinions, that before the resurrection of the dead the godly shall take possession of the kingdom of the world, the ungodly being everywhere suppressed.* Historical Premillennialists also affirm that the godly will not take possession of the kingdom of the world, before the resurrection of the dead. That seems to be more of a Postmillennial View. We do however hold that the godly will possess the Kingdom _after_ the First Resurrection (of the godly), but _before_ the Second Resurrection (of the ungodly).
Thanks for continuing the Augsburg series even though you admit it doesn't get as many views as you would hope. It's a great series, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing more about a confessional Lutheran view on eschatology as it can often be an ignored subject matter within our circles.
This was an excellent commentary on Lutheran Eschatology. I have very much been enjoying your video series on the Articles of the Augsburg Confession. Thank you.
In honor of your dedication to men's fashion, I will wear a jacket & tie in my next video!
The Augsburg Confession series is my favorite..
Nice job as always, Dr. Cooper. I have always been someone who believed in hell as a place of eternal suffering, however, I'm starting to think that annihilationism may be consistent with Scripture. Need to study more.
Of course, this topic must always be far more than a mere academic subject. It's about where we will spend eternity and what that eternity will be like. Very sobering to think about.
I have been waiting for this episode for over two years. Can't wait to see it.
These are very interesting, and always a joy to watch🙂
Great presentation Dr. Coop
Algorithm and thank you for your teachings 🙏🏻
Please don’t be uncomfortable-a jacket and even a tie can be too much in the not summer. Yes, you look sharp in a suit but it’s your teaching I’m here for.
this is great I've learned a lot from this Thank you.
11:35
I really think that the Early Church's view of Abraham's Bosom, is the most Biblical understanding of what happens after death. That is to say, that believers are escorted by Angels into that part of Sheol that is called Abraham's Bosom, or Paradise, where they await the Resurrection of their bodies, in the Presence of the LORD and all His saints.
The biggest objection to this view, is usually, that Paul says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. But this objection forgets the words of the Psalmist who wrote,
"Where shall I go from your Spirit?
Or where shall I flee from your presence?
If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!"
And, if we remember the words of our Lord, when He said to the thief, "Today you shall be with Me in Paradise." And yet our Lord did not ascend to Heaven until _after_ His Resurrection, but as the Creed says, He descended into Hades (that is, into Sheol).
The only other objection really, is that the souls of the Martyrs in Revelation, are seen under the Altar of the LORD, but this can be answered in two ways. Either Martyrs are an exception, and ascend to the Altar of the LORD, _or_ the Altar is another way of referring to Abraham's Bosom, and how that place is viewed by God, and the fact that the Souls are "beneath the Altar" refers to them not being in Heaven, in the sense that one usually means it, but they are, in some spiritual sense "beneath" the Altar of Heaven.
Thanks for your deep dive into trinitarian theology.
I understand what you say about the development of Mariology. my sister-in-law is Catholic and she has a devotion to Mary because for her, God, the father and God the son feel very far away from her.
32:07 Hinduism has a similar belief that, during the end of this age, Kalki the 10th Incarnation of Vishnu will come to restore the balance between good and evil. He will bring judgement and wrath.
No, it is not similar.
@@leef_me8112 why not?
Good job!
Since you take the late view of Revelation I'd love to hear your thoughts on preterism.
@47:00 did Washer actually say that!?!?!
What is your position of George NH Peters “the theocratic kingdom”?
"we can be a soul without a body for a time". What is the soul? What's interesting is that some of these biblical concepts are best understood only in modern times. The soul exists without the body, when the body is resurrected the soul is reunited with it. Creatures without a soul are not resurrected on the last day. Simple: the soul is our backup file. Neural networks like the brain are terribly complex and you essentially have to capture the entire state down to the molecular level, continuously, in order to back it up. (Which may imply that Sheol, in some way, is a "sandbox" virtual environment which keeps the soul sane while waiting the resurrection).
How do Lutherans interpret the various OT prophecies that suggest a Millennial Age?
Dr. Cooper, as regard theories of mind and body (and the ontology of creation in general), would you come down firmly on the side of something like substance dualism, or would you see other positions (excluding materialism/physicalism) as possibilities i.e., neutral monism?
(My advisor in college, Angus Menuge (a staunch dualist), gave me a copy of Thomas Nagel’s Mind and Cosmos: Why the Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature Is Almost Certainly False my senior year, and I’ve always found the neutral monist ontology of creation fascinating to toy with as a result as an alternative to dualism that may alleviate some of dualism’s riddles, e.g., the nature of mind-body interaction.)
Hey, I've been thinking about the amillennial approach and was wondering if we could understand "the Day of the Lord" as being the "thousand year reign of Christ/bound devil". If the Day of the Lord is seen as the Visitation of God, Judgement/Redemption, or the reign of God; then could we say that everywhere and everywhen God defeats sin, death and the devil, there is the "thousand years" and the Day of the Lord; with the Final Day of the Lord at the end of the world?
I believe that both Wesleyans and pentecostals are post-mil types, although they will be of a different flavor than reformed postmils.
“I’d hate to disagree with Yoda.”
I don't think its hard to draw the line between the medieval Dies irae view of Christ and the development (and acceptance) of philosophical nominalism, they were scared to death!
No problem if you have a jacket on, but it would be nice to see a collar once in a while.😃
I don't mind him not wearing a collar for his videos. He's not really acting as our pastor in these, more as a theological professor. Sticking with a shirt and tie is just visually illustrative of that.
@@ArsontAngelfire Depends on where one goes to the seminary I guess.
Annihilation is an eternal punishment -- they don't stop being non-existent. And some people find that concept far more terrifying than living forever in constant pain. I don't think it "solves" any moral questions about how God could be good and still punish people. I think death is intuitively the ultimate punishment, and an extremely slow, unimaginably painful death is plausibly the perfectly just punishment for any sin.
Ultimately I think that people should believe in whichever idea sounds scarier to them. But even then, your motivation to remain faithful should be the goodness of God and not the fear of punishment anyway.
On premillennialism you said roughly "I don't see room for a 1000 year reign in between the current age and the age to come". I think this is a misunderstanding. The millennial kingdom is the age to come itself. The new Earth is definitely less talked about in the Bible than the millennial kingdom.
I'm always amused when theological scholars take the most symbolic interpretation of a passage, neglecting the plain meaning. St Peter is pretty clear: God's going to make the Sun go nova.
And yet the Anabaptists were right on this point. As they were right that Baptism is not for babies but for believers in Christ and is by immersion.
It fits with the nature of God much better than eternal torment
Jeesus wus an invention of the Romans
The return of Jesus has been prophecized since the putative Jesus himself. Over two millennia of failed predictions have not deterred a new generation of gullible believers that suchma return is imminent. Of course there would need to have been an actual Jesus Christ for this person to return.
Your just a late-comer. You are squawking about a non-issue. Matthew chapter 24 talks about all the things that will happen when the son comes again.
Jesus in verse 36 said: No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,g but only the Father.
The predictions were by people who didn't read the bible, or who were cults.
@@leef_me8112 The irony of referring to people being in cults just drips from your comment. The entirety of Christianity is some form or another of a cult.
Any savior that encourages you to dress like that can go straight to hell.
EDIT: I typed all this up, whilst listening to the video, and then at the end, Dr. Cooper affirmed that there are in fact Lutherans who hold to Premillennialism. 😅 I decided to post it anyway, so others can interact with my reasoning, and perhaps iron can sharpen iron.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It would seem to me that Article XVII does not _necessarily_ rule out Historic Premillennialism, though admittedly it seems to imply that it is wrong. Is this intentional?
The reason I say this, is because as an Historic Premillennialist, I can affirm all "5 points" of Article XVII, as long it is understood to be a summary of events that will take place, and allows for some nuance. For instance:
*1. "Also they teach that at the Consummation of the World Christ will appear for judgment,"*
Historic Premillennialists affirm that Christ will appear in judgement at the Consummation of the World. However, this Consummation, also called the Last Day, is not to be thought of as a Day as humans reckon it, but for the LORD a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day. And so, Christ's return is the beginning of the Last Day.
*2. and will raise up all the dead; He will give to the godly and elect eternal life and everlasting joys,*
Historic Premillennialists also affirm that when Christ returns He will raise up all the dead. The Righteous are raised in the First Resurrection, at the beginning of the Last Day, and receive eternal life and everlasting joys. The ungodly however are not raised until the end of the Last Day.
*3. but ungodly men and the devils He will condemn to be tormented without end.*
Historical Premillennialists affirm that at the end of the Last Day when the ungodly are raised up, that they, along with the devils will be condemned, and thrown into the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented without end.
*4. They condemn the Anabaptists, who think that there will be an end to the punishments of condemned men and devils.*
I think most Historic Premillennialists would affirm this point too. Especially if what it is denying is some kind of eventual Universal Atonement. Although, I think some may hold to an eventual annihilation, which Dr. Cooper addresses in the video as being the specific Anabaptist doctrine in view here (I wonder though, is that specified somewhere, or just what Dr. Cooper thinks is being addressed?). I do know the most Annihilationists would disagree with the language of there being "an and to the punishments of condemned men and devils", as they would argue that the punishment does not end, as the damned are destroyed forever. Personally, however, I believe Scripture teaches the Eternal Conscious Torment of the Ungodly, so I can affirm this "point" fully.
*5. They condemn also others who are now spreading certain Jewish opinions, that before the resurrection of the dead the godly shall take possession of the kingdom of the world, the ungodly being everywhere suppressed.*
Historical Premillennialists also affirm that the godly will not take possession of the kingdom of the world, before the resurrection of the dead. That seems to be more of a Postmillennial View. We do however hold that the godly will possess the Kingdom _after_ the First Resurrection (of the godly), but _before_ the Second Resurrection (of the ungodly).