Man, you did not dig too deep here.. There are computers in the Dune Universe aplenty. There isn’t any artificial intelligence though in most places, because that was extinct during Butler’s Jihad. From then on AI was prohibited by law of the Landsrad. Anyway, there seems to be AI on IX. Besides that, there are human computers, the mentats and the guild navigators, an actual perversion of Butler’s original beliefs. In the recent movies (which do not represent Herbert’s books too well in my opinion) Paul obviously is using a very sophisticated holographic projrctor which uses advanced computing technology for sure. And what about hunter seekers? You need lots of computing technology for that. Technology is commonly hidden or disguised in the Dune Universe because of the remaining influence of Butler’s ideology. But Herbert shows that this mostly is hypocrisy. All the upper classes heavily rely on advanced technology like light globes, autonomous drones of all sorts etc. Somehow it‘s a paraphrase of the resentment of many islamic movements towards depicting human beings. Actually this idea has not much to do with the original religion. Mohammed did not want people to depict him or to visualize god for obvious reasons. He did not want to be idealized and god is an unimaginable entity for human beings. You and Mr. Villeneuve did not read Herbert‘s books very carefully. Your content is not wrong but it’s like a primitive reproduction of a very simple interpretation. Herbert‘s ideas are much more complex than that.
It is actually suspected that had the book series been finished, people would find out that the worms and spice were actually a creation of the rogue AI's that escaped, to lure humans into being addicted to it and reliant on it for advancement, which was ultimately designed as a way to set humanity on a path to self destruction, disguised as something miraculous. Sure it would benefit humanity for a long time, but all paths would eventually lead to self destruction one way or another, and could come in various forms, for example, the AI's could just one day make the spice useless / disappear. With enough of humanity reliant on it, it would cause a total collapse of civilization. But there are various forms it could take that could simply be unavoidable and unalterable consequences of going down the spice path, while also being completely unforeseeable by humanity. I think the true ending of dune was that while we shunned AI, it may be possible that AI itself is what created life in the galaxy, so it might not even just be our own banned AI creations but some greater AI civilization that operates completely invisibly, guiding the galaxy, and that may explain how the dune planet and spice exists. The book even subtly hints that the dune world and spice may be artificial constructs, either left behind or placed by some greater civilization.
Ahhh you forget that in Dune certain organizations were created to school and develope humans that can replace COMPUTERS in their function hense Mentats. Guild Navigators and the Bene Gessirit, this is why all this emphasis on developing humans, WE ARE THE COMPUTERS in Dune.
Na, you all confuse Computers with electricity ! All this drones and semi-autonom devices , works with electricity. They use logical wires, but only reactive ones. So no algorithems or similar things, only if-then iterations. The Spice and the Worms are arteficial, because we know Arakis was a former ´green Planet´ , a state to which the fremen wants to go back. The rarity and/ or vanishing of the spice melange , IS part of the book series ( i just don´t know which books are rooted to F.Herbert himself, the last ones were published after his death ! ). The whole ´golden path´ and the diaspora is centered around it !!
Look at 1940s technology. There was radar, radio communications, television, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, tv guided anti ship missiles, automatic navigation systems etc. Yet none of it relied on computers, it was all valve based. Hunter killers could easily be made using such technology.
Things are simple the book was released 1965 computers may have existed but basically most people werent even aware they did and surely they were nowhere near of being in households or even a commodity for the masses.. the movie released in 1984 which means it got scripted and filmed a few years prior to that so either late 70 or early 80s where ok PC were not as obscure as in 65 but again even the term "PC" probably wasnt like an established term and most people again didnt have one like commodore c64 was released on1982 So computers werent like a "fad" and it wasnt engraved in peoples minds that they will be the future.
this music must've played right when Kroft was born in the hospital, surely it follows him around everywhere he goes, funny thing is I thought this was alien soundtrack music until I eventually realized it has nothing to do with the movies and it's just something kroft chose for his channel haha. Love it though!
I thought there are computers. You can clearly see the Harkkonnens using computers in arrakeen. They just can’t have thinking computers (Ai). But the computers we use every day in 2024 for personal, science, industry, military are fine.
Yeah, the Ixian are the tech guild producing the most advanced technology. The houses are also producing their own computerized devices but they aren't as advanced as the Ixian ones. In the books it's stated that it is thought that the Ixians even went above the threshold what is allowed for computerized devices. It's just that they simply use computers only for mandatory tasks and not e. g. for entertaining purposes. That's why it seems that there aren't any.
The computers don't exist because Frank Herbert just simply didn't think about them. When someone brought it up to him, he added some backstory to handwaive it away. In 1965, computers had almost no effect on anyone's lives.
Dune shows us a world where human potential can be maximized. Where individuals are not just granted powers of strength and intellect, but powers of wisdom and foresight.
It also shows that democracy doesn't work, and that imperialism is inevitable. Democracy is basically mob rule, a form of anarchism, it isn't stable or good or even capable of surviving long term. It was a good experiment, but back to what works.
I think one of the issues is that the great famillies and guilds do indeed have advanced computers, but they are kepts secret. For example, the Bene Gessuit guild had a secret computer to determine the human breeding programs. The space guild also had computers to assist with navigation, which made a spice fuelled navigator slipghtly more safe. The birth of the mentants themselves were from a man raised by a computer, and they do mimic computers. In that way they do not shun computers, they secretly use them, and worship them, and model themselves after them. It's just like the familly atomics in the movies, only the most powerful groups get to have advanced technology, but the common folks are prohibited. This was of course of of the big aspects of the books, the divide of common people, and the extrodinary people...
Ahh not until the later books did the Guild have such, only their Navigators could do that until the death of Leto II The God Emperor. Then machines were developed that could do the Guild Navigators job but they still were kept onboard in case.
Things are simple the book was released 1965 computers may have existed but basically most people werent even aware they did and surely they were nowhere near of being in households or even a commodity for the masses.. the movie released in 1984 which means it got scripted and filmed a few years prior to that so either late 70 or early 80s where ok PC were not as obscure as in 65 but again even the term "PC" probably wasnt like an established term and most people again didnt have one like commodore c64 was released on1982 So computers werent like a "fad" and it wasnt engraved in peoples minds that they will be the future.
@@billkillernic Ahh I was a young man in 84 and believe me even then we knew it was the future, we already started seeing them in banks, schools and other places but you still kind of had to be a nerd/intellectual to have one, all command line prompts no icons to press no GUI with the exception of a 2000 dollar Macintosh.
@@dr.strangelove5708 not all of you and especially outside of America (e.g uk ) and again that's just the movie the book which the movie is based on released in the 60s lol And like what I mean is that it wasnt in the everyday life of most people like PC really became mainstream in the 90s but even than huge chunks of people still didnt care and/or were able to operate one even on a level of doing simple tasks...
Depends on who you're asking, because there are two versions of the Butlerian Jihad. Frank Herbert's Butlerian Jihad wasn't about man vs. machine, but a war against men who used thinking machines to subjugate others. Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson's is a generic Terminator type war.
Humans surrendered their thinking to the AI. Allowed AI to make decisions for them. A world where AI would make medical decisions, military decisions, even political and judicial decisions. By surrendered their thinking to the AI, in turn the ai enslaved humanity. Empires would use their AI to wage battles against other empires with their AI and humanity was caught in the crossfire. For ai doesn't have morals or ethics, and is willing to sacrifice it's own pawns for the strategic goal.
@@kingssman2 that's what I don't like when I use AI, I'm not in command, you keep surrendering thinking to AI you are eventually not going to be able to think anymore. Also computers are automatons, they just do the mechanical part, but AI is an entire different thing. Banning computers is to ensure no one will ever try to recreate AI. To be fair, you can have mechanical computers do everything a computer do nowadays, if we were to get rid of all microchips, we could still run this very society of ours just with mechanical computers. The internet wouldn't work as fast as it works now, but its possible to have a packet switched network using mechanical relays, it would just be expensive and thus wouldn't be used by stupid people all over the world. Which might be a good thing. Also, it would force extreme decentralization because the network being mechanically switched would make it very slow, and you would have to use teletypes, which are basically automated mechanical writers. All the other technologies we have could still keep existing, they would just need more humans to keep them working, which is actually a good thing, it gives actual humans a real work, because most what humans do as work is pointless bureaucracy, only 3% of the humans actually do something useful, that's a waste of potential.
It's more like AI enslaved humans. Started with humans giving up control to AI, resulted in them becoming slaves, and ended in basically a terminator style war but on an interstellar scale. There was a main AI that controlled everything, but there were also other smaller AI minds with less control. Some of those other AI minds probably weren't a threat to humanity. But humanity wasn't about to take that risk so they basically went on a crusade or jihad to destroy all AI everywhere they could. It's very possible that some AI managed to go on long space trips and could come back from outside where humanity has settled in the universe, or maybe they will just start their own civilization and not care about revenge and the human race. Either way that very likely possibility is part of the reason computers are so limited, although not non-existent like this video makes it sound. If AI comes back you don't want computers controlling your weapons and navigation on your ship, you also need a backup for almost everything that isn't computer based, and you would absolutely avoid anything that allows computers to connect with each other.
So much I didn't know from watching the 3 movies.....Crazy what happens to space navigators over time with constant exposure to spice,...that is trippy🤔
It's true though We'll never develop gifts in areas that we offloaded / never use Certain technologies or societal shifts have blocked higher expressions of consciousness
I just figured it was a product of the era 'when' the book was written. Keep in mind in 1965 computers were barely functional, barely seen by regular people, let alone philosophized about. Keep in mind Frank Herbert was BORN in 1920, his formative years were during an era which the HORSE and BUGGY were still common, and only a few had access to cars, let alone airplanes, Movie Theaters, heck even electric lights. By the time Herbert wrote dune, the world was COMPLETELY changed inside and out from his childhood, from conquering TB, inventing anti-biotics, electrifying every home in the western world, replacing 20,000 years of reliance on horses with cars, fertilizer promising an end to world hunger, etc. There really was no real reason 'not' to think that speed of progress wouldn't continue, but also, there wasn't any reason to think the enigmatic computer would really be a part of that progress beyond basic automation and calculation. It's not that he didn't 'think' about AI, but he didn't to place 'too' much fantasy or conjecture into it, so blankly wrote that 'a great reaction against computers has resulted in a ban on any "thinking machine", with the creation or possession of such punishable by immediate death. Despite this prohibition, humanity continues to develop and advance other branches of technology, including extrasensory perception (ESP) and instruments of war.' In other words, he pulled a WH40k moment and just made the whole idea 'forbidden' XD
Most devices and appliance in Dune must have basic computing elements built into it otherwise it wont work. The prohibition on computing devices only applied to those that mimicked human intelligence and powers of reasoning. That means that spacecraft could use navigational computers and there would be no need for the Spacing Guild monopoly on space travel. And that was exactly what happned later on as the Spacing Guild was put out of business by the use of navigational computers on Imperium vessels. It is amazing that the Spacing Guild was able to maintain the con job for so long.
Analog computers. They are even faster than digital computing but they can only do exactly one thing, they are not programmable like digital computers.
I thought this exact subject within Prometheus. The engineers technology is very much incomprehensible to us Humans. (Without David, it quite possibly wouldn’t have been activated) Maybe Their technology within Dune’s Universe is much the same. Sophistication in an incomprehensible form. 🤔🤷🏻♂️ I do feel frequency is a huge factor within this franchise. Whether it be sand compactors summoning sand worms or use of “The Voice”. It makes you wonder just how much frequency has been an inspiration to Their technology.
Nope, not sarcasm. Sounds like a guy who adds something valuable to a conversation, and has a creative thinking mind. I immediately see what he was saying as possibly true. It was a cool response.
Nice synopsis. Thanks. Let me add one thing you are missing though: The Titans. These are a small group of computer AI hackers in the very beginning of the saga. Just before the war with Omnius (the world spanning AI) and some time before the Butlarian Jehad. The Titans (as the hackers called themselves) corrupted Omnius' programming so that they could become like gods and rule over all humans everywhere. The new code the Titans imposed on Omnius kept the machines from ever harming the Titans directly as the hackers lorded it over everyone else. An Atridies ancestor was one of the original Titans. Later on in the War against the machines he reformed and became a hero of humanity. Funny thing is that the Harkonans were the "good guys" in the war right from the start while at the same time the Atridies ancestor was a Titan major a-hole. Later on near the end of the War the Harkonans became the big bad guys. A power corrupts, sort of thing. LOL There are sooo many details in that book series! Sorry about my spelling errors here.
Ahhh you forget how many analog/mechanical devices can actually do the job of digital, just that they were usually slower and/or more expensive or required human control and/or interpretation. I was born when computers were the size of houses so I saw how it transitioned into what we have now.
@@dr.strangelove5708 That's the point. you can have a mechanical computer do everything an electronic computer does. The Turing machine is a mathematical machine that can even be implemented with pipes and water. That's why they banned specifically the use of electronic computers, even if someone try to create AI with mechanical computer, it is going to be so slow and wouldn't be able to compete with out biological intelligence, which is faster. And why banning electronic computers, because its impossible to control what a computer do, as you can see IRL, if you know how to hack a computer, you can literally do anything you want. If I really want to do something with my computer, I AM going to do it, no law or order or anything can impede me doing it, you can keep making it illegal all you want. If my computer is able to do it, I am going to do it. Of course If I tried to make an AI with any computer, the government would easily know from the power use alone, nothing you do with a computer really requires 10MW, but training AI does. That's why they banned computers, you can't control what people do with computers, you can only confiscate the computers. (I'm literally prepared for this scenario, I made my own mainframe hidden in a barn, it is slow, only 10Mhz, made of 6502 design, but enough to do what I want, can't create AI with that thou, and I don't want to, I have other purposes that require automation, no, its not cold fusion either).
@@dr.strangelove5708 Analog computers are a thing and they actually faster than any digital computer. The catch is: digital computers are multipurpose by being programmable, a analog computer can only do exactly what it was build for.
According to the books, the old Imperium was a Star-Trek like setting with sophisticated computer systems and AI until it was subverted by a group of individuals who used the computer networks and AI to take control. Later the AI super-computer usurped those individuals to take power for itself and unleashed a Terminator style interstellar war that dragged for ages due to limitations of the old warp drives. Humanity managed to get a victory due to the invention of fold space and improved bio-engineering. Fold space was used during the war without navigators and it resulted in huge attrition, this shortly after the war the guild was established to make fold space safe. The smashing of simpler computers during the war was a ploy by the Korrinos to take control.
You cant beat AI , if its at a point of self improvement and selfreplication !! But Ai dont need human rescources, like air, food or consumer goods. All it needs is energy and materials to produce, mostly not organic 🤓😊 I bet Ai would just go somewhere it can do it thing in peace by itself...
its weird they have those booger things goin from their nose to their head cus check this out their was an asian looking women found on the moon with this weird technology of bars and wires frozen to her face and a big black mark on her forehead , there's a video on it but its like some ancient form of transhumanism , i dk it made me think of this
The rise of artificial intelligence is definitely one of the facets in the 'Great Filter'. I've long suspected that extraterrestrial life is out there but have always aired on most of stuff 'travelling around doing stuff' being AI.
At 00:11:01, you pronounce 'prescient' as "pre-SIE-yint", and at 00:11:09, you pronounce 'prescience' as "pre-SIE-yince". Those words are pronounced "PREH-shyint" and "PREH-shyince", respectively. I only mention it because it took me an extra couple of listens to understand what you meant. Love the video otherwise (although it was weird hearing the background music on a video that isn't related to Aliens!)!
Long story short, in Dune, technology has been replaced by magic (awkwardly disguised as the cultivation of human potential). It's quite annoying, actually.
It's not just AI that's banned, it's any computer, down to and including pocket calculators. And I'm willing to bet that mechanical calculators were banned as well.
Herbert was inspired to create the Mentats by his Appalachian grandmother, who was illiterate but could make huge mathematical calculations in her head.
There are computers - but they are humans. They are called mentats. The films just don’t mention them much. thufir hawat is one but the only mention of it is when his face goes bland and we just see the white of his eyes. Like he vis doing a calculation or something. The space high liners are guided but navigators - again, not mentioned in the films. They use spice to charter safe passage across space.
Because Hertbert wasn't confident he understood the implications of digital computation, or how to write good sci fi that wouldn't seem outdated and eye-rolling if he did include them but ended up writing hopelessly naive plotlines because of it.
I've read all the Dune books (from Herbert and his son) several times over the last 40 years, I love the Dune universe. I like the premise of a civilization without artificial intelligence, and how they are coping with it. Especially because we are already suffering from a civilization with computers and AI, and because it will be our downfall, not because of an Omnius, but because of the influences of TikTok and other "social" media on our minds. Anyway, there is a problem with the new Dune books where technology plays a more important role and where the backstory of a civilization without AI is rolled out. There needs to be at least intelligence on the level of a Windows 11 to explain some technologies like holograms. It's not that I don't like to read the newer Dune books, but it makes the premise less plausible. Sometimes, not everything needs to be fleshed out.
I’m pretty sure there are 3d digital projections of the battle on a battle table in dune 2 I remember thinking it looked really cool. That being said it doesn’t show a computer chip or screen which makes sense to me.
The problem with any tech in our universe , including computers, is, that we think, that human life is irrelevant. When examining the impact , for example , of AI, and seeing it will cause total societal chaos, but economy will explode to unprecedented levels , what do we do? We wet our pants on the prospects of new economic gains and try to find a way to accomodate the unnecessary humans , so that they do not whine too much. So, economic indexes, geopolitical gains, control over energy and mineral depots has a far superior value in our world , than the value of The human life. Hence the never ending conflicts and the untold number of deaths and human misery still at this day and age , veiled carefully under any kind of excuse. We seem to forget(we don't, but we certainly pretend very well) that our current tech is enough to feed several tens of billions of people to the point of acquiring diabetes all of them and then be left with a capacity for some billions more. We lament our dependence on fossil fuels , supposedly because of environmental concerns, but we would happily go to war to acquire more access of such fuels, even blast humanity with nuclear fire, if our greed is not satisfied. There are environmentally friendly ways of using fossil fuels, but we avoid them. Then there are ways of implementing far more solar , wind and geothermal , but we avoid it. And I have not dug deeper than the tip of the iceberg regarding our energy options. We are drowned in an ocean of energy , but we still find excuses to kill humans . And the excuses is our greed and deification of a false sense of economic prosperity. Don't get me wrong , I am all for economic growth , probably more than most , but not through disrespect to the human constant. Unfortunately my concerns will probably never be heard. I am of the few dinosaurs of another age and mentality.
Good video as always by Kroft, but that answer should have been in one of the SO OVERRATED movies which explained NOTHING, not just A.I. absence but many more concepts (The Guild, Mentats etc...)...Good sci-fi movies, but forgettable and INCOMPLETE.
idk if whe can say complete absence of computer because whe can see on the movie's tracking light or assassin drone as well what seems look like he no-pilot arteries and some harvester maybey are autonomous depending on the house
All of this is important to understanding the deeper stage on which the Dune universe is constructed. But it's also why the story has long been considered un-filmable. It's why Lynch's movie had to collapse into constant, laughable voice-over in an attempt to explain what was going on. I think Deni's decision to explain very little and simply drop us into the middle of this complicated and alien human society was definitely the right call.
AI/Thinking Machines are against the religious law in Dune, as in sentient and independent machines, not computers/electronics enabling specific tasks - ie "a clever piece of clockwork"
At some point computers will advance and integrated so much that’s you won’t need screens or keyboards. That’s the point of dune. It’s not cheesy like Star Trek
one way to bend the jihad that may or or may not be in that world is a molecular gear computer- IT would be a radical departure from teh CPU we are used to and how could gears be thinking? Molecular Gear Systems as Circuit Replacements: Mechanical Logic Gates: Molecular gears could be used to create mechanical logic gates similar to electronic logic gates (AND, OR, NOT). Instead of using electrical signals to control logic, the gears would rotate, shift, or engage/disengage with other molecular components to perform the same operations, processing information through mechanical means. Switching Mechanisms: Like transistors in electronic circuits, molecular gears and mechanical switches could be designed to control the flow of signals. Instead of electrons, these systems might control the flow of chemical, mechanical, or optical signals within a molecular circuit. Molecular Motors: Molecular motors, which are already well-developed, could be used to convert chemical energy directly into mechanical motion. These motors could drive molecular gear systems to perform various tasks, from computational operations to physical movements, akin to how electrical current drives components on a circuit board. Information Processing: With proper design, molecular gear systems could process information via physical interactions. These systems could carry out logical computations by relying on mechanical interactions, where gears rotate or shift depending on specific inputs. This process could mimic binary systems (1s and 0s) used in traditional computing, with different states of the molecular system representing different bits of information. Storage: Instead of electrical charge, molecular systems could use physical conformational changes (e.g., the state of a molecular switch or gear) to represent stored data. This could be akin to the way DNA stores information in its molecular structure, except with artificial molecules designed for computation. Energy Efficiency: Molecular machines could operate on chemical or mechanical energy, potentially leading to extremely energy-efficient systems. If a molecular system could harvest energy from chemical reactions or other environmental sources (like light), it might reduce the need for electrical power supplies that current circuit boards rely on. A
Yeah i think futuristic films severly underestimate the prominence AI will have in the future. I believe we will solely be using robots and Ai to fight wars.
@@d3mist0clesgee12 If you are unsure whether to believe Herbert was a prophet, that's one of the things he intended from his work. So, I'd say you are doing well. But I'd like to point out that Muad'dib was alive to fool the Fremen. There is a keen difference between a living man falsely claiming that he is a prophet, and a dead prophet who humbly rejected the label in his time. At least scrutinize Herbert's work on the level we once did with Shakespeare and Plato. That way you can decide for yourself and not miss out on useful wisdom.
@@BrutusMyChild Sorry bro, too high brow for me, just looking for great entertainment from genre (plus fantasy) that I love, not gonna lie, didn’t enjoy the rest of the series as much as original, liked most of the prequels, just awesome work
@@d3mist0clesgee12 That's cool, but perhaps consider studying Herbert's work seriously one day. Even if you didn't enjoy it on the first read, you will come to appreciate it's wisdom the more you reread and contemplate it. Until that day comes, what have you read for entertainment recently? For sci-fi, I haven't read anything new in the genre recently, but I have enjoyed Speaker For The Dead during a vulnerable time in my past, and it helped. Have you read that one? How about The Three-Body Problem?
A.I isjust a FAD. In best case, used rught, can become a complex tool, wich may be useful, if used like a tool. It will never be a conscience, artificial I mean, as conscience/self awareness is FAR SUPERIOR to a mind, wich is the maximum level a computer can attain. So yeah, maybe Herbert understood well this ... thing.
Yes, this would be hard to understand if you've just watched the movies. Of course, if you actually read the book, you'll understand completely why this is the case. I think one fault of the movie is that it didn't even MENTION the Butlerian Jihad.
I think we should ban GPUs and anything more advanced than a 6502 , if you can't create the chip by hand and understand everything about the software, you can't use it, that would avoid having things like software that have 150M lines of code just to control your car, you can't do shit like that
Things are simple the book was released 1965 computers may have existed but basically most people werent even aware they did and surely they were nowhere near of being in households or even a commodity for the masses.. the movie released in 1984 which means it got scripted and filmed a few years prior to that so either late 70 or early 80s where ok PC were not as obscure as in 65 but again even the term "PC" probably wasnt like an established term and most people again didnt have one like commodore c64 was released on1982 So computers werent like a "fad" and it wasnt engraved in peoples minds that they will be the future.
Article 1 of the Great Convention, "Thou shall not make a machine in the image of a man's mind" therefore; computers, yes, but strictly no AI. The Mentats are those humans who sort of bridge the gap.
This. A “computer” can handle a multitude of data processing tasks with absolutely no emulation of “thought.” So, a machine that carries out a specific task is okay (e.g., managing stealth shield) but a machine that could solve problems requiring anything beyond basic math is what’s prohibited.
In Chapterhouse: Dune, Odraid is using a basic computer to filter a database. She says this computer is illegal. In Heretics of Dune, on Selusa Seconds, the inside of a basic security room with multiple monitors viewing different areas is described as illegal. I have read all the books many times, and I see no evidence AI is a requirement for illegality. It appears to be a digital\analog issue. It's not clearly stated in the original books by Frank Herbert.
@@qdllc Yes. The atomic bomb was designed with an analog computer. Our fingers can be considered an analog computer. Unfortunately, Fran Herbert did not elaborate. I don't consider his son's books cannon. That's just my opinion there. I'm The Dune Encyclopedia (not cannon, but Frank loved the work) it was software that was banned. That was the part of a computer that resembled a human mind. I choose to believe this interpretation even though it is not cannon.
@@jimclark2824 I thought after the death of Leto II there were such changes in the Dune Universe that basically the machines were coming back like the new computers that now navigate spaceships with Guild Navigtors.
Man, you did not dig too deep here.. There are computers in the Dune Universe aplenty. There isn’t any artificial intelligence though in most places, because that was extinct during Butler’s Jihad. From then on AI was prohibited by law of the Landsrad. Anyway, there seems to be AI on IX. Besides that, there are human computers, the mentats and the guild navigators, an actual perversion of Butler’s original beliefs. In the recent movies (which do not represent Herbert’s books too well in my opinion) Paul obviously is using a very sophisticated holographic projrctor which uses advanced computing technology for sure. And what about hunter seekers? You need lots of computing technology for that. Technology is commonly hidden or disguised in the Dune Universe because of the remaining influence of Butler’s ideology. But Herbert shows that this mostly is hypocrisy. All the upper classes heavily rely on advanced technology like light globes, autonomous drones of all sorts etc. Somehow it‘s a paraphrase of the resentment of many islamic movements towards depicting human beings. Actually this idea has not much to do with the original religion. Mohammed did not want people to depict him or to visualize god for obvious reasons. He did not want to be idealized and god is an unimaginable entity for human beings. You and Mr. Villeneuve did not read Herbert‘s books very carefully. Your content is not wrong but it’s like a primitive reproduction of a very simple interpretation. Herbert‘s ideas are much more complex than that.
It is actually suspected that had the book series been finished, people would find out that the worms and spice were actually a creation of the rogue AI's that escaped, to lure humans into being addicted to it and reliant on it for advancement, which was ultimately designed as a way to set humanity on a path to self destruction, disguised as something miraculous. Sure it would benefit humanity for a long time, but all paths would eventually lead to self destruction one way or another, and could come in various forms, for example, the AI's could just one day make the spice useless / disappear. With enough of humanity reliant on it, it would cause a total collapse of civilization. But there are various forms it could take that could simply be unavoidable and unalterable consequences of going down the spice path, while also being completely unforeseeable by humanity. I think the true ending of dune was that while we shunned AI, it may be possible that AI itself is what created life in the galaxy, so it might not even just be our own banned AI creations but some greater AI civilization that operates completely invisibly, guiding the galaxy, and that may explain how the dune planet and spice exists. The book even subtly hints that the dune world and spice may be artificial constructs, either left behind or placed by some greater civilization.
Ahhh you forget that in Dune certain organizations were created to school and develope humans that can replace COMPUTERS in their function hense Mentats. Guild Navigators and the Bene Gessirit, this is why all this emphasis on developing humans, WE ARE THE COMPUTERS in Dune.
Na, you all confuse Computers with electricity ! All this drones and semi-autonom devices , works with electricity. They use logical wires, but only reactive ones. So no algorithems or similar things, only if-then iterations. The Spice and the Worms are arteficial, because we know Arakis was a former ´green Planet´ , a state to which the fremen wants to go back. The rarity and/ or vanishing of the spice melange , IS part of the book series ( i just don´t know which books are rooted to F.Herbert himself, the last ones were published after his death ! ). The whole ´golden path´ and the diaspora is centered around it !!
Look at 1940s technology. There was radar, radio communications, television, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, tv guided anti ship missiles, automatic navigation systems etc. Yet none of it relied on computers, it was all valve based.
Hunter killers could easily be made using such technology.
Things are simple the book was released 1965 computers may have existed but basically most people werent even aware they did and surely they were nowhere near of being in households or even a commodity for the masses.. the movie released in 1984 which means it got scripted and filmed a few years prior to that so either late 70 or early 80s where ok PC were not as obscure as in 65 but again even the term "PC" probably wasnt like an established term and most people again didnt have one like commodore c64 was released on1982
So computers werent like a "fad" and it wasnt engraved in peoples minds that they will be the future.
They have computers. Just not intelligent machines - 'Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind'
Turing machines are allowed I think. Human brain isn't a Turing machine.
Good to see Kroft is branching out 👍
To complete his final form, Kroft just needs to make lore videos about Blade Runner or Predator and all will be well in the universe lol
Or maybe even some wildcard franchises like chronicles of Riddick or Cloverfield.
If I ever met kroft and had a conversation with him and that music wasn't playing in the background, I don't think my brain could comprehend it 😅
this music must've played right when Kroft was born in the hospital, surely it follows him around everywhere he goes, funny thing is I thought this was alien soundtrack music until I eventually realized it has nothing to do with the movies and it's just something kroft chose for his channel haha. Love it though!
@@jdfoster23 It totally feels like it was created for Prometheus!
😂😂
@@jdfoster23it's not from the franchise? What are its origins then?
lol same; Kroft is part of the cast of Prometheus I swear lol David's friend Kroft lol
I thought there are computers. You can clearly see the Harkkonnens using computers in arrakeen. They just can’t have thinking computers (Ai). But the computers we use every day in 2024 for personal, science, industry, military are fine.
What about the Ai today?
it could be ixian tech, and harkonnens might be using it
Yeah, the Ixian are the tech guild producing the most advanced technology. The houses are also producing their own computerized devices but they aren't as advanced as the Ixian ones.
In the books it's stated that it is thought that the Ixians even went above the threshold what is allowed for computerized devices.
It's just that they simply use computers only for mandatory tasks and not e. g. for entertaining purposes. That's why it seems that there aren't any.
They are probably using illegal machines as they are villains who don't care.
😅
The computers don't exist because Frank Herbert just simply didn't think about them. When someone brought it up to him, he added some backstory to handwaive it away. In 1965, computers had almost no effect on anyone's lives.
Love seeing you make Dune content. A perfect fit!
same universe to be fair 😉
Dune shows us a world where human potential can be maximized. Where individuals are not just granted powers of strength and intellect, but powers of wisdom and foresight.
It also shows that democracy doesn't work, and that imperialism is inevitable. Democracy is basically mob rule, a form of anarchism, it isn't stable or good or even capable of surviving long term. It was a good experiment, but back to what works.
My favourite, yet non-cannonical theory is that Dune and Matrix are the same universes, only tens of thousands of years apart.
Since All is One, Indras net, as above so below, and so forth etc. and so on, it only stands to reason.
I’m here for your alien stuff but I am interested in just about any video you make.
You can keep making videos like this and I'll keep watching them. My kind of channel.
So great to see you talking about Dune universe. Please keep posting
It’s only 2024 but I’m already thinking we need to abandon computers
Abandon fast networking that would kill social media and a lot of other ills that computers became associated with.
Let me just say, Kroft doing Dune content is GREAT, but overlaying it with Prometheus background music is a true gift.
Thank you!!!!!!
I think one of the issues is that the great famillies and guilds do indeed have advanced computers, but they are kepts secret. For example, the Bene Gessuit guild had a secret computer to determine the human breeding programs. The space guild also had computers to assist with navigation, which made a spice fuelled navigator slipghtly more safe. The birth of the mentants themselves were from a man raised by a computer, and they do mimic computers. In that way they do not shun computers, they secretly use them, and worship them, and model themselves after them. It's just like the familly atomics in the movies, only the most powerful groups get to have advanced technology, but the common folks are prohibited. This was of course of of the big aspects of the books, the divide of common people, and the extrodinary people...
Ahh not until the later books did the Guild have such, only their Navigators could do that until the death of Leto II The God Emperor. Then machines were developed that could do the Guild Navigators job but they still were kept onboard in case.
Things are simple the book was released 1965 computers may have existed but basically most people werent even aware they did and surely they were nowhere near of being in households or even a commodity for the masses.. the movie released in 1984 which means it got scripted and filmed a few years prior to that so either late 70 or early 80s where ok PC were not as obscure as in 65 but again even the term "PC" probably wasnt like an established term and most people again didnt have one like commodore c64 was released on1982
So computers werent like a "fad" and it wasnt engraved in peoples minds that they will be the future.
@@billkillernic Ahh I was a young man in 84 and believe me even then we knew it was the future, we already started seeing them in banks, schools and other places but you still kind of had to be a nerd/intellectual to have one, all command line prompts no icons to press no GUI with the exception of a 2000 dollar Macintosh.
@@billkillernic ..kind of like 3D printing is right now it is out there but only real nerds want to use them, it is not that userfriendly yet.
@@dr.strangelove5708 not all of you and especially outside of America (e.g uk ) and again that's just the movie the book which the movie is based on released in the 60s lol
And like what I mean is that it wasnt in the everyday life of most people like PC really became mainstream in the 90s but even than huge chunks of people still didnt care and/or were able to operate one even on a level of doing simple tasks...
This was more interesting than I initially thought.
If i remember right its because ai went to war with them or almost wiped them out so they banshed it completely
Depends on who you're asking, because there are two versions of the Butlerian Jihad.
Frank Herbert's Butlerian Jihad wasn't about man vs. machine, but a war against men who used thinking machines to subjugate others.
Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson's is a generic Terminator type war.
@crankywriter1738 that's what the BH/KJA war *ends* as: it starts as the Frank version and the "Terminator-style war" is how it ends
Humans surrendered their thinking to the AI. Allowed AI to make decisions for them. A world where AI would make medical decisions, military decisions, even political and judicial decisions.
By surrendered their thinking to the AI, in turn the ai enslaved humanity. Empires would use their AI to wage battles against other empires with their AI and humanity was caught in the crossfire. For ai doesn't have morals or ethics, and is willing to sacrifice it's own pawns for the strategic goal.
@@kingssman2 that's what I don't like when I use AI, I'm not in command, you keep surrendering thinking to AI you are eventually not going to be able to think anymore. Also computers are automatons, they just do the mechanical part, but AI is an entire different thing.
Banning computers is to ensure no one will ever try to recreate AI.
To be fair, you can have mechanical computers do everything a computer do nowadays, if we were to get rid of all microchips, we could still run this very society of ours just with mechanical computers.
The internet wouldn't work as fast as it works now, but its possible to have a packet switched network using mechanical relays, it would just be expensive and thus wouldn't be used by stupid people all over the world. Which might be a good thing.
Also, it would force extreme decentralization because the network being mechanically switched would make it very slow, and you would have to use teletypes, which are basically automated mechanical writers.
All the other technologies we have could still keep existing, they would just need more humans to keep them working, which is actually a good thing, it gives actual humans a real work, because most what humans do as work is pointless bureaucracy, only 3% of the humans actually do something useful, that's a waste of potential.
It's more like AI enslaved humans. Started with humans giving up control to AI, resulted in them becoming slaves, and ended in basically a terminator style war but on an interstellar scale. There was a main AI that controlled everything, but there were also other smaller AI minds with less control. Some of those other AI minds probably weren't a threat to humanity. But humanity wasn't about to take that risk so they basically went on a crusade or jihad to destroy all AI everywhere they could. It's very possible that some AI managed to go on long space trips and could come back from outside where humanity has settled in the universe, or maybe they will just start their own civilization and not care about revenge and the human race. Either way that very likely possibility is part of the reason computers are so limited, although not non-existent like this video makes it sound. If AI comes back you don't want computers controlling your weapons and navigation on your ship, you also need a backup for almost everything that isn't computer based, and you would absolutely avoid anything that allows computers to connect with each other.
Man. The ambience you make with your videos makes me always come back brother. 👌🔥
So much I didn't know from watching the 3 movies.....Crazy what happens to space navigators over time with constant exposure to spice,...that is trippy🤔
Accelerates evolution and they spend most of their time in zero g's
It's true though
We'll never develop gifts in areas that we offloaded / never use
Certain technologies or societal shifts have blocked higher expressions of consciousness
I just figured it was a product of the era 'when' the book was written.
Keep in mind in 1965 computers were barely functional, barely seen by regular people, let alone philosophized about. Keep in mind Frank Herbert was BORN in 1920, his formative years were during an era which the HORSE and BUGGY were still common, and only a few had access to cars, let alone airplanes, Movie Theaters, heck even electric lights.
By the time Herbert wrote dune, the world was COMPLETELY changed inside and out from his childhood, from conquering TB, inventing anti-biotics, electrifying every home in the western world, replacing 20,000 years of reliance on horses with cars, fertilizer promising an end to world hunger, etc. There really was no real reason 'not' to think that speed of progress wouldn't continue, but also, there wasn't any reason to think the enigmatic computer would really be a part of that progress beyond basic automation and calculation.
It's not that he didn't 'think' about AI, but he didn't to place 'too' much fantasy or conjecture into it, so blankly wrote that 'a great reaction against computers has resulted in a ban on any "thinking machine", with the creation or possession of such punishable by immediate death. Despite this prohibition, humanity continues to develop and advance other branches of technology, including extrasensory perception (ESP) and instruments of war.'
In other words, he pulled a WH40k moment and just made the whole idea 'forbidden' XD
Yess!! Would love to see Kroft cover more SciFi movies/books 😊
great break down and explanation
Having Harkonnen levitating by their will tells there's no absence of computers, only visible devices
Most devices and appliance in Dune must have basic computing elements built into it otherwise it wont work. The prohibition on computing devices only applied to those that mimicked human intelligence and powers of reasoning. That means that spacecraft could use navigational computers and there would be no need for the Spacing Guild monopoly on space travel. And that was exactly what happned later on as the Spacing Guild was put out of business by the use of navigational computers on Imperium vessels. It is amazing that the Spacing Guild was able to maintain the con job for so long.
Analog computers. They are even faster than digital computing but they can only do exactly one thing, they are not programmable like digital computers.
There are computers in Dune.
I thought this exact subject within Prometheus.
The engineers technology is very much incomprehensible to us Humans.
(Without David, it quite possibly wouldn’t have been activated)
Maybe Their technology within Dune’s Universe is much the same.
Sophistication in an incomprehensible form. 🤔🤷🏻♂️
I do feel frequency is a huge factor within this franchise.
Whether it be sand compactors summoning sand worms or use of “The Voice”.
It makes you wonder just how much frequency has been an inspiration to Their technology.
You are 100% wrong ,their technology is not incomprehensible ,digital tech is banned by the Emperor.
Such a cool response. 👏
@@jahnalithat better be sarcasm
Nope, not sarcasm. Sounds like a guy who adds something valuable to a conversation, and has a creative thinking mind.
I immediately see what he was saying as possibly true. It was a cool response.
No, the Egyptians didn't use some kind of frequency oscillator to levitate heavy bricks.
Nice synopsis. Thanks. Let me add one thing you are missing though: The Titans. These are a small group of computer AI hackers in the very beginning of the saga. Just before the war with Omnius (the world spanning AI) and some time before the Butlarian Jehad. The Titans (as the hackers called themselves) corrupted Omnius' programming so that they could become like gods and rule over all humans everywhere. The new code the Titans imposed on Omnius kept the machines from ever harming the Titans directly as the hackers lorded it over everyone else. An Atridies ancestor was one of the original Titans. Later on in the War against the machines he reformed and became a hero of humanity. Funny thing is that the Harkonans were the "good guys" in the war right from the start while at the same time the Atridies ancestor was a Titan major a-hole. Later on near the end of the War the Harkonans became the big bad guys. A power corrupts, sort of thing. LOL There are sooo many details in that book series! Sorry about my spelling errors here.
Computers exist just not artificial intelligence and also humanlike robots...
Herbert wasn't talking about control panels and light switches etc...
Ahhh you forget how many analog/mechanical devices can actually do the job of digital, just that they were usually slower and/or more expensive or required human control and/or interpretation. I was born when computers were the size of houses so I saw how it transitioned into what we have now.
@@dr.strangelove5708 That's the point. you can have a mechanical computer do everything an electronic computer does. The Turing machine is a mathematical machine that can even be implemented with pipes and water.
That's why they banned specifically the use of electronic computers, even if someone try to create AI with mechanical computer, it is going to be so slow and wouldn't be able to compete with out biological intelligence, which is faster.
And why banning electronic computers, because its impossible to control what a computer do, as you can see IRL, if you know how to hack a computer, you can literally do anything you want. If I really want to do something with my computer, I AM going to do it, no law or order or anything can impede me doing it, you can keep making it illegal all you want.
If my computer is able to do it, I am going to do it.
Of course If I tried to make an AI with any computer, the government would easily know from the power use alone, nothing you do with a computer really requires 10MW, but training AI does.
That's why they banned computers, you can't control what people do with computers, you can only confiscate the computers. (I'm literally prepared for this scenario, I made my own mainframe hidden in a barn, it is slow, only 10Mhz, made of 6502 design, but enough to do what I want, can't create AI with that thou, and I don't want to, I have other purposes that require automation, no, its not cold fusion either).
@@dr.strangelove5708 Analog computers are a thing and they actually faster than any digital computer. The catch is: digital computers are multipurpose by being programmable, a analog computer can only do exactly what it was build for.
Thank you.
And thank you for using "your" music, like in your wonderful "Alien" series movies 😊
Love to see you doing other franchises kroft.
A Mentat was a profession that was developed as a replacement to the computers and thinking machines
Brilliant analysis as always.
And if kroft can do some comics will be great,your Voice is great man!the way you narated the stories 🎉🎉🎉
what sucks about the new movies is we never got to see a proper weirding way fighting style
According to the books, the old Imperium was a Star-Trek like setting with sophisticated computer systems and AI until it was subverted by a group of individuals who used the computer networks and AI to take control. Later the AI super-computer usurped those individuals to take power for itself and unleashed a Terminator style interstellar war that dragged for ages due to limitations of the old warp drives.
Humanity managed to get a victory due to the invention of fold space and improved bio-engineering. Fold space was used during the war without navigators and it resulted in huge attrition, this shortly after the war the guild was established to make fold space safe. The smashing of simpler computers during the war was a ploy by the Korrinos to take control.
If there was ai or computers to help bend space time they would have no need for spice. The people making money from spice dont like that.😊
what is name of background music ?
atlantis by audionautix
Excellent, Kroft. Great move on Dune.
Where's the music from?
atlantis by audionautix
They were smart enough to make themselves more advanced rather than the things that served them...
Please do more and more!
You cant beat AI , if its at a point of self improvement and selfreplication !! But Ai dont need human rescources, like air, food or consumer goods. All it needs is energy and materials to produce, mostly not organic 🤓😊 I bet Ai would just go somewhere it can do it thing in peace by itself...
Very good explanation thank you for this
"Thou shall not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind"
we need this 11th Commandment now
"The more you let machines do the thinking, the more you do things without thinking." Leto II
its weird they have those booger things goin from their nose to their head cus check this out their was an asian looking women found on the moon with this weird technology of bars and wires frozen to her face and a big black mark on her forehead , there's a video on it but its like some ancient form of transhumanism , i dk it made me think of this
Fantastic video
The rise of artificial intelligence is definitely one of the facets in the 'Great Filter'. I've long suspected that extraterrestrial life is out there but have always aired on most of stuff 'travelling around doing stuff' being AI.
Perry cool and good info but I'm just here for the alien prometheus soundtrack.
At 00:11:01, you pronounce 'prescient' as "pre-SIE-yint", and at 00:11:09, you pronounce 'prescience' as "pre-SIE-yince". Those words are pronounced "PREH-shyint" and "PREH-shyince", respectively. I only mention it because it took me an extra couple of listens to understand what you meant. Love the video otherwise (although it was weird hearing the background music on a video that isn't related to Aliens!)!
What is this song you are using?
The same one he always uses and I love it
It's from Prometheus soundtrack, I think.
It's Atlantis by Audionautix
@@ChompsLewisit's not from a movie, it's a royalty free track, listed under the video.
@@opbroc This one.
Long story short, in Dune, technology has been replaced by magic (awkwardly disguised as the cultivation of human potential). It's quite annoying, actually.
No computers in Krull either (yes it’s sci-fi, the bad guy arrives in a giant stone spaceship)
I'm not a huge fan of the Dune series but I love how it creates a different view of the future without computers.
There are a few computers. He uses kind of an AI chat computer in the first movie to learn about the planet It shows some images as well.
That was a image book, basically a encyclopedia.
@@spencers4121 Thanks for the clarification
In the books nothing gets close to ai until Xi starts experimenting in the book God emperor mostly for navigation but other things also.
Tell them to read the books!
If they can read!
It's not just AI that's banned, it's any computer, down to and including pocket calculators. And I'm willing to bet that mechanical calculators were banned as well.
Herbert was inspired to create the Mentats by his Appalachian grandmother, who was illiterate but could make huge mathematical calculations in her head.
There are computers - but they are humans. They are called mentats. The films just don’t mention them much. thufir hawat is one but the only mention of it is when his face goes bland and we just see the white of his eyes. Like he vis doing a calculation or something.
The space high liners are guided but navigators - again, not mentioned in the films. They use spice to charter safe passage across space.
It was not mentioned in Dennis's film but was quite mentioned in the David Lynch version.
@@dr.strangelove5708 cool
I like how they don’t talk about it in the movie, because they would all already know and there would be no need to.
Spacing Gild - Spacers // AI war etc... --> Sounds like Dune is the continuation of "Foundation".
Because Hertbert wasn't confident he understood the implications of digital computation, or how to write good sci fi that wouldn't seem outdated and eye-rolling if he did include them but ended up writing hopelessly naive plotlines because of it.
I've read all the Dune books (from Herbert and his son) several times over the last 40 years, I love the Dune universe. I like the premise of a civilization without artificial intelligence, and how they are coping with it. Especially because we are already suffering from a civilization with computers and AI, and because it will be our downfall, not because of an Omnius, but because of the influences of TikTok and other "social" media on our minds.
Anyway, there is a problem with the new Dune books where technology plays a more important role and where the backstory of a civilization without AI is rolled out. There needs to be at least intelligence on the level of a Windows 11 to explain some technologies like holograms. It's not that I don't like to read the newer Dune books, but it makes the premise less plausible. Sometimes, not everything needs to be fleshed out.
Ahh why bother to give those hacks your money I don't, I read one of his and I just had enough, too superficial for me.
I’m pretty sure there are 3d digital projections of the battle on a battle table in dune 2 I remember thinking it looked really cool. That being said it doesn’t show a computer chip or screen which makes sense to me.
The problem with any tech in our universe , including computers, is, that we think, that
human life is irrelevant.
When examining the impact , for example , of AI, and seeing it will cause total societal chaos, but economy will explode to unprecedented levels , what do we do?
We wet our pants on the prospects of new economic gains and try to find a way to accomodate the unnecessary humans , so that they do not whine too much.
So, economic indexes, geopolitical gains, control over energy and mineral depots
has a far superior value in our world , than the value of The human life.
Hence the never ending conflicts and the untold number of deaths and human misery
still at this day and age , veiled carefully under any kind of excuse.
We seem to forget(we don't, but we certainly pretend very well) that our current tech is enough to feed several tens of billions of people to the point of acquiring diabetes all of them and then be left with a capacity for some billions more.
We lament our dependence on fossil fuels , supposedly because of environmental concerns, but we would happily go to war to acquire more access of such fuels, even blast humanity with nuclear fire, if our greed is not satisfied.
There are environmentally friendly ways of using fossil fuels, but we avoid them.
Then there are ways of implementing far more solar , wind and geothermal , but we avoid it.
And I have not dug deeper than the tip of the iceberg regarding our energy options.
We are drowned in an ocean of energy , but we still find excuses to kill humans . And the excuses is our greed and deification of a false sense of economic prosperity.
Don't get me wrong , I am all for economic growth , probably more than most , but not through disrespect to the human constant. Unfortunately my concerns will probably never be heard. I am of the few dinosaurs of another age and mentality.
Good video as always by Kroft, but that answer should have been in one of the SO OVERRATED movies which explained NOTHING, not just A.I. absence but many more concepts (The Guild, Mentats etc...)...Good sci-fi movies, but forgettable and INCOMPLETE.
The 84 movie was better at explaining things yet gets constantly panned even by Lynch himself, he should see the new ones he might change his mind.
idk if whe can say complete absence of computer because whe can see on the movie's tracking light or assassin drone as well what seems look like he no-pilot arteries and some harvester maybey are autonomous depending on the house
So basically you are telling me that they are just not happy with high technology because it hurts their attorney and might be replaced
Is the Bene Gesserit just using an advanced form of placebo effect? It's implied that it's not magic.
Your smart phone is banned in Dune. It is about computers. This is clearly in Herbert's Dune.
Herbert may have denied it in his time, but he is a prophet. We would do well do read his works and heed his warnings.
He is also the most intelligent authors I ever seen, he was a modern day Renaissance Man.
Butlarian jihad and the machine crusade stand alone to me. They would make an amazing movie sequence. X
They have hunter seekers, those are mini robots, how do you program them? Computers. The projector with the visual books?
The hunter seeker is operated like a FPV drone. Not programed.
They have computers but they are not able to take any action without human intervention.
Is Riddick from the Dune universe?
All of this is important to understanding the deeper stage on which the Dune universe is constructed. But it's also why the story has long been considered un-filmable. It's why Lynch's movie had to collapse into constant, laughable voice-over in an attempt to explain what was going on. I think Deni's decision to explain very little and simply drop us into the middle of this complicated and alien human society was definitely the right call.
Waitaminute... is this video made by an AI?
The wording gives me ChatGPT vibes ngl. Excessive uses of “A testament to” is always a red flag.
Please kroft do more on dune
I came here to hear your voice😊
There is no computers like there is no fashion.
AI/Thinking Machines are against the religious law in Dune, as in sentient and independent machines, not computers/electronics enabling specific tasks - ie "a clever piece of clockwork"
The 1980s Dune theres a prequel section talks about the thinking machines and mentats and ben jesuirits
If thinking machines advance far enough they become prescient and able to find people any place the go
Okay Marty why are you so interested in them anyways
At some point computers will advance and integrated so much that’s you won’t need screens or keyboards. That’s the point of dune. It’s not cheesy like Star Trek
My head cannon is this is ome point in 40k before or after the men of iron but before the emperor lol
There is also the Emporer in the Dune universe as well
@@SilverStarHeggisist ah shit I need more lore knowledge
one way to bend the jihad that may or or may not be in that world is a molecular gear computer- IT would be a radical departure from teh CPU we are used to and how could gears be thinking? Molecular Gear Systems as Circuit Replacements:
Mechanical Logic Gates: Molecular gears could be used to create mechanical logic gates similar to electronic logic gates (AND, OR, NOT). Instead of using electrical signals to control logic, the gears would rotate, shift, or engage/disengage with other molecular components to perform the same operations, processing information through mechanical means.
Switching Mechanisms: Like transistors in electronic circuits, molecular gears and mechanical switches could be designed to control the flow of signals. Instead of electrons, these systems might control the flow of chemical, mechanical, or optical signals within a molecular circuit.
Molecular Motors: Molecular motors, which are already well-developed, could be used to convert chemical energy directly into mechanical motion. These motors could drive molecular gear systems to perform various tasks, from computational operations to physical movements, akin to how electrical current drives components on a circuit board.
Information Processing: With proper design, molecular gear systems could process information via physical interactions. These systems could carry out logical computations by relying on mechanical interactions, where gears rotate or shift depending on specific inputs. This process could mimic binary systems (1s and 0s) used in traditional computing, with different states of the molecular system representing different bits of information.
Storage: Instead of electrical charge, molecular systems could use physical conformational changes (e.g., the state of a molecular switch or gear) to represent stored data. This could be akin to the way DNA stores information in its molecular structure, except with artificial molecules designed for computation.
Energy Efficiency: Molecular machines could operate on chemical or mechanical energy, potentially leading to extremely energy-efficient systems. If a molecular system could harvest energy from chemical reactions or other environmental sources (like light), it might reduce the need for electrical power supplies that current circuit boards rely on. A
Yeah i think futuristic films severly underestimate the prominence AI will have in the future. I believe we will solely be using robots and Ai to fight wars.
This is why Dune is so special, Herbert saw AI years ago
That would make Herbert a prophet.
@@BrutusMyChild lol, not sure about all the but Scifi without computers, even as a teenager when i read that in Dune it was crazy to me,
@@d3mist0clesgee12 If you are unsure whether to believe Herbert was a prophet, that's one of the things he intended from his work. So, I'd say you are doing well. But I'd like to point out that Muad'dib was alive to fool the Fremen. There is a keen difference between a living man falsely claiming that he is a prophet, and a dead prophet who humbly rejected the label in his time. At least scrutinize Herbert's work on the level we once did with Shakespeare and Plato. That way you can decide for yourself and not miss out on useful wisdom.
@@BrutusMyChild Sorry bro, too high brow for me, just looking for great entertainment from genre (plus fantasy) that I love, not gonna lie, didn’t enjoy the rest of the series as much as original, liked most of the prequels, just awesome work
@@d3mist0clesgee12 That's cool, but perhaps consider studying Herbert's work seriously one day. Even if you didn't enjoy it on the first read, you will come to appreciate it's wisdom the more you reread and contemplate it. Until that day comes, what have you read for entertainment recently? For sci-fi, I haven't read anything new in the genre recently, but I have enjoyed Speaker For The Dead during a vulnerable time in my past, and it helped. Have you read that one? How about The Three-Body Problem?
A.I isjust a FAD. In best case, used rught, can become a complex tool, wich may be useful, if used like a tool. It will never be a conscience, artificial I mean, as conscience/self awareness is FAR SUPERIOR to a mind, wich is the maximum level a computer can attain. So yeah, maybe Herbert understood well this ... thing.
All the system is there what they miss is interconnection between systems.
Yes, this would be hard to understand if you've just watched the movies. Of course, if you actually read the book, you'll understand completely why this is the case. I think one fault of the movie is that it didn't even MENTION the Butlerian Jihad.
I've never heard Bene Gesserit pronounced that way before.
I still cannot get over the way the new movie pronounces Harkonnen, look at the 84 movie that was created when Frank Herbert was alive.
Honest,i Like more the old dune Movie Till now!will see
I think we should ban GPUs and anything more advanced than a 6502 , if you can't create the chip by hand and understand everything about the software, you can't use it, that would avoid having things like software that have 150M lines of code just to control your car, you can't do shit like that
Things are simple the book was released 1965 computers may have existed but basically most people werent even aware they did and surely they were nowhere near of being in households or even a commodity for the masses.. the movie released in 1984 which means it got scripted and filmed a few years prior to that so either late 70 or early 80s where ok PC were not as obscure as in 65 but again even the term "PC" probably wasnt like an established term and most people again didnt have one like commodore c64 was released on1982
So computers werent like a "fad" and it wasnt engraved in peoples minds that they will be the future.
Kroft lives!!!
Article 1 of the Great Convention, "Thou shall not make a machine in the image of a man's mind" therefore; computers, yes, but strictly no AI. The Mentats are those humans who sort of bridge the gap.
This. A “computer” can handle a multitude of data processing tasks with absolutely no emulation of “thought.” So, a machine that carries out a specific task is okay (e.g., managing stealth shield) but a machine that could solve problems requiring anything beyond basic math is what’s prohibited.
In Chapterhouse: Dune, Odraid is using a basic computer to filter a database. She says this computer is illegal. In Heretics of Dune, on Selusa Seconds, the inside of a basic security room with multiple monitors viewing different areas is described as illegal.
I have read all the books many times, and I see no evidence AI is a requirement for illegality. It appears to be a digital\analog issue. It's not clearly stated in the original books by Frank Herbert.
@@jimclark2824 - Which is odd as an analog computer can still be a computer.
@@qdllc Yes. The atomic bomb was designed with an analog computer. Our fingers can be considered an analog computer. Unfortunately, Fran Herbert did not elaborate. I don't consider his son's books cannon. That's just my opinion there.
I'm The Dune Encyclopedia (not cannon, but Frank loved the work) it was software that was banned. That was the part of a computer that resembled a human mind. I choose to believe this interpretation even though it is not cannon.
@@jimclark2824 I thought after the death of Leto II there were such changes in the Dune Universe that basically the machines were coming back like the new computers that now navigate spaceships with Guild Navigtors.
Humanity would have to obsolete intelligent artifice
The Mentats are the Computers.
We are the computers... Allan have you seen my abacus 🧮???😂
Also can you let Mr Ozio know we have a meeting tomorrow morning 😅