The r@pe for those who don't know is everyone thought they were sleeping with Sonic but it was Evil Sonic doing that under his identity. Which is a real thing that's super illegal and happens irl.
@@Docoboi pardon me, I’m using the actual definition for mid rather than the TikTok one lol. IDW is good at what it does, it expands on the characters’ morals, the new cast is perfectly designed and integrated, and the stakes are intense when they’re able to work around the mandates. My problems are some of the more subjective ones, as the stakes haven’t felt as high since the metal virus, I think the infiltration arc is contrived, character drama is pretty basic, and the villains aren’t nearly as unique and impactful as Archie (coming off of what little I’ve read and researched).
I remember Archie, and Ian Flynn confirmed "nothing happened between Bunnie and Evil Sonic." (Later known as Scourge) Though, we know Ken's intentions given what he said about Sally and Geoffrey... Still, I just ignore that moment, and I'm with Archie and Ian... "nothing happened." I think this story is why fans and writers were getting burnt out on the shipping, and why Archie started to tone down the romance a bit. As for Ken Penders, I try to be fair too, but it's hard to be neutral with him sometimes as he says/does annoying things, and he either makes really good issues, or really bad ones, and usually somewhere between.
The problem with Ken is he was given so much freedom he didn't know what to do with he basically started projecting his personal fantasy drama such as writing the death of Knuckle's dad based on his own father's passing in a future issue and getting mad when it was basically soft retconned out canon. If he was given a more reasonable version of the Sonic Mandates to start his work would've been better for it
it’s more about the reason why ken decided to imply that rather than the fact it happened or not. It completely destroys the immersion bc you just have to ask what he was thinking
Okay while I love what Ian did with Scrouge I am interested what would've happen if Evil-Sonic actually liked and "tried" to do good... I do wish we had Karl instead of Ken
@@leviticusprime4904 TLDR Fleetway Super is a split personality resulting from Emerald radiation that triggers when Sonic gets severely stressed or put in near death situations. Eventually Super got split from Sonic, went on to be a villain for a bit, the calmed down when he started losing his power. He tried living a normal life (even got a job I believe), but ultimately had to absorb Perfect Chaos to not die from his near empty tank of energy, and ended up becoming evil again.
Eh, not everything Bollers did was great.. quite a bit of it was problematic (He was responsible for changing Sally Acorn into one of the most unlikable characters in the book, and he like Ken, claims to own various characters he doesn't actually own.. one of whom is even a relative of a main character (Hope Kintobor, a niece of Robotnik's) Karl just looks good standing next to Ken
I knew that this story was pretty bad and down right creepy, but I didn’t know it was based off Karl Bollars original idea. Next to Ian Flynn, Karl Bollars is one of my favorite writers for the series, I would have gladly preferred his version over this disgusting interpretation of the characters.
Fiona on this era was kinda funny as you can tell they were trying to make her relevant, but kept just writing her as a wannabe Sally. Ian seemed to like her though, as his early fan comics before Archie had her and Sonic as a couple, and he was the one who actually gave her a role as villain.
I’ve been scripting out my own AU where a spiteful, arrogant mobian is tasked to infiltrate Sonic’s friend group and destroy it from within, but in that time, he learns about the true value of the bonds they share and why it’s important to preserve it, thus inspiring him to forge his own path. This video gave me a lot of perspective on how to approach the story and make its long term consequences actually mean something, so I thank you for that.
I don't let this part ruin the whole story for me, but yeah wtf? Shit like this made the course corrections Ian made much more justifiable at the start of his run. This is just a reminder that Kenders was a huge part of the series' downfall even before the suing. Plus Ken completely ruined the chances of us getting a sequel to Chronicles on top of everything, so fuck him lol
Chronicles didn't do well financially or critically because it was a rushed RPG trying to copy the Mario RPGs held together with scotch tape and bad sprites. Penders ruined everything for Archie comics but I don't think Chronicles getting shelved was his total fault.
@@jack_stone Fair enough. I just think it's petty as fuck to sue over a title that never got used in the game's story (especially since they made a prequel story for it in one of their books lol). I just liked that we had an actual Sonic RPG for a while, even if it was kinda trashy. Plus I liked the option that you could either "romance" or mock Amy though the whole thing... or both lol
This is honestly the first time I'm seeing someone upset about Chronicles. Like every time I bring up that game everyone essentially Boos me. Yes the game sucked but I'd be lying if I said 12 yr old me didn't sink several hours on my DS getting perfect dodge combos.
@@sclarinet9088 We can still enjoy the bad Sonic games. A lot of people have the mentality that we can't enjoy it just because that it's bad. I won't give the game a high score either but dammit, I'll enjoy what I like if I like it.
Apparently it's only her legs _(and arm)_ that got roboticized, not the... part connecting then. How concerningly convenient. In fact, some early model sheets for the 90s cartoon show her with only partially roboticized legs, from the knees down. Strange. Really strange.
Issue 150 was my first Sonic comic. I was weirded out since I had only played the games. I felt tricked by the cover because it looked so amazing. I was expecting a story in the middle of a grand adventure. Instead, I got a fanfic make-out story. I still like the cover, though.
Finally got around to watching this video and it was great stuff! Super appreciated the use of the HD scans since I think they go a long way to help the presentation when talking about Archie Sonic.
I remember 150 being my very first Sonic comic. It was on sale at my local library and bought it with my own money. Needless to say, kid me was left more confused than satisfied and never bothered picking up another Archie Sonic after that.
As someone who used to read almost all of the archie comics at a young age and remembers reading issue 150, I now realize that there were quite a few things that went over my head as a child...
honestly, somehow, I keep forgetting that Scourge actually IS evil sonic. I just always see him as someone new with some history, because these days I just tend to only read issue 160 onward. Evil Sonic may as well have just died at some point and Scourge was just a better replacement.
I always choose to forget about Evil Sonic hooking up with the girls and skip to the part where sonic finds out he switched their roles, I find evil clone swaps to be cool, like what Web-Man best example sonic wise…Shadow but….what the fuck was penders thinking when he wrote this…?
I can like Scourge because as far as I am concerned Ken’s tweet mean nothing for the actual story. They took a nap under a tree and that’s all that matters to me. Scourge is a cool villain under Ian and Penders is the equivalent of a deadbeat dad while Ian is the step father who actually gave a damn.
@@Spleenchomper “Heavily implied” No its not, Penders’ stated intent after the fact may have been that, but with the story itself there’s no implication of sex nor would it even make sense for Bunnie to do that with Sonic to begin with even if she and Antoine were apart. Penders has said outright Archie didn’t let him tell a story about Geoffrey and Sally having sex before, so why would they even allow it between Sonic and Bunnie even if it wasn’t Scourge. I choose to take the comic at face value (when it says its just a nap it’s just a nap) and don’t account for things said retroactively on twitter by some guy who a known weirdo.
@@CometX-ing then why does scourge look like that in that scene my guy I'm pretty sure they just said nap so they could get away with it because they wouldn't obviously let them just say sex yk, I don't even know any scourge would be napping with bunnie against a tree anyway who does that 😭😭
Ken has some weird issues with relationships. That and his denial of asexuals just makes me uncomfortable in general about this whole mess even more. And the "nap" evil and Bun had already is just so nope.
Between this, the movie pitch he screwed over Ben Hurst for, the use of "First they came" for his worldbuilding and the recently released nightmare that is The Lara-Su Chronicles, Penders is just a veritable font of cursed, deranged and utterly incompetent cringe.
im willing to give ken a pass about his comment about "forgiving bunnie" comment because i think he just meant that antoine would feel hurt for bunnie dating sonic. not that she did something wrong, but that he would look past a relationship where other people might feel hurt that they dated.
While I'm watching i just remembered a fan comic were archie sonic explains to fleetway sonic about sonic ex-girls and fleetway sonic gets lost in confusion
man it really pisses me off when women characters (or really, their relationships with the male characters) are used only as cheap romance drama in story plots. It sometimes feels like certain writers can’t think of anything except “they should kiss xyz”, and then go on to imply that only the woman is at fault for the fallout
Another great video. I never realized until now as an adult that this scene between Bunnie and Evil Sonic was that goddddd Ken why. Did the Sonic franchise need this
I've ever bought one Sonic comic in my life and it was THIS one (plus a story with a giant Tails and a Sonic X portion where Sonic, Amy, and Knuckles were transported to Sonic 1 for the Sega Genesis)
Man Boellers plans with Evil Sonic sounds very similar to that one comic of Squadron Supreme when the evil Hyperion created by Grandmaster essentially replaced the good one as part of a scene of destroying the team from the inside (which failed due to him actually enjoying being good).
You can really tell that when Penders was handed these notes, he really lasered in on Scourge making moves on Fiona, which was likely just supposed to be one example of multiple that Scourge would use Sonic's respected status to do bad stuff, and thought that was by far the most important part.
*"Every character is definied by their relationships and not necesarily the romantic ones."* - Ken, May 2019 _(in the context of Sonic not being allowed to have a girlfriend)_ Make sense he'd focus on Evil Sonic "making movs on Fiona". Relationships are the be-all and end-all, so clearly Sonic having his relationships ruined would be the most severe blow in his life, right?
honestly scourge is so far removed from evil sonic in my mind that despite finding this story abhorrent, it doesn't really affect my thoughts on him at all
I saw a comment of someone writing an AU where things are written differently and man I’m taking up the mantle for my own where the characters are not as dumb, petty and…… horny 🤦🏻♀️
I remember this, I didn't like Evil Sonic aka Scourge. To me, he felt like a cheap version of Sonic just a bigger ego. I remember being disappointed that it wasn't the real Sonic that was dating Bunnie, honestly they look great together (Favorite ship) I hated what Scourge did to her. Ken Penders doesn't understand romance, nothing but a cheap writer that bought more damage to the franchise
Finally almost everyone loves scourge and half of the people who love him too are simps 😢 he literally SA'd her guys there's so many way better sonic characters to like, scourge isn't THAT special
@@Spleenchomper I think some of us like him because we sympathized with him during the prison arc. I personally like him because he’s an interesting villain… though I think Ken adding implied SA was fucking vile. It’s also confirmed by Ian Flynn that the implied SA has been retconned. (And honestly… I’m taking Ian’s word over Ken “making a child kiss an adult” penders. (Hope I don’t come off as rude, that’s just my explanation.)
I am more shocked that anyone gave it the greenlight to be published. How lazy and unorganized was Archie Comics to let this happen?! Keep in mind they were somehow ignorant of Sally being given a realistic gun that looks like a revolver one would find in real life. Once they found out, Archie Comics was somehow dumbfounded but couldn't do anything about it as it was already being read and sold by that time.
I don't get why Ken thought of making evil Sonic a playboy and writing him cucking everyone. This is a kids comic series. Why did he thought Sonic could be this playboy playing with girl's hearts. I feel bad for Poor Antoine and Tails.
What about that bit where Sally Acorn slapped Sonic and called him selfish, leading to that infamous break-up? I may have only skimmed through that part, but I still thought the main cause for that to happen in the first place was highly neglected writing lead to a sever characfer derailment.
So much of the art in this looks like it exist in a universe where everyone looks like those warp melty Sonic popsicles. Also it goes to show you that the Comic Code Authority Approval holds no value when a comic with implied Assault gained their approval. You know someone is asleep at the wheel but they want to wield power to pretend they have some kind of authority.
Ah yes, the cuck wars arc, truly legendary. I'd actually argue the worst was the one where Sonic goes back to Nates old station to pay respect to Eddie (whom he barely even knew) only to get in a "fight" with Naugus that was just pages of snowflakes. Talk about phoned in!
One thing I never see talking about when there's a discussion about penders is how good his early contributions were. I started reading the comics just recently and I'm only at issue 26, so I haven't seen all the weird stuff he made even tho I heard a lot about it. But so far, the quality as gone way up ever since he got there. Might not redeem everything else, but his early stories were good fun
They're definitely kinda dumb when you sit down and think them through, but the same could be said about most stories from that era. Issue 19 is a fun, over-the-top story, the 21-22 two-parter is pretty cool, the Sally and Knuckles minis were neat if flawed, and to tease the near-future issues for you, the Endgame finale was great if, once again, quite flawed, and Issue 36 was honestly mind-blowing when I first read it. I got spoiled on a bunch of things from the comics, yet I did NOT see what happened in 36 coming. Granted, I probably enjoyed it so much because it was one of the first issues I read after a long break, but still. 😅
I'll just be honest it's stuff like this that makes me really dislike preboot Archie Sonic. Ian did his best for working hard and trying to salvage and clean up what Ken did but a lot of this mess just ruins it for me. I completely understand why Sega had mandates on the comics since reboot Archie & IDW a lot of this is just gross and unnecessary.
Fr. I hate the mandates unnecessary limitations but who can blame them after what happened the first time they let a comic company have free reigns. I guess it's another thing we can thank Ken for.
You’re not the only one who called these issues the worst. I saw another review on them. Ugh! This is way too much! I wish we got some of the ideas Bollers had for Amy! Even if they took out the romance angle, there was still so much potential for her. But no, she was still kept more of a background character despite her many roles in games.
Ken (in my opinion), seems like the type that just wants to do things 'His Way or The High Way.' Most companies usually don't like that very much. In fact, I dare say that most companies prefer consistently.. That was something that Archie Comics wasn't. But, back to ol' Kenneth - I think that there was some bad blood that was boiling between him and his former bosses. Grudges can set in, and the 'Screw All Of Them!' mentality sets in. (The latter seemed to reverb within issues #47 - #50. Much hell broke loose when Ken wanted Princess Sally to 'stay dead' because she was considered to be excessive baggage for Sonic.') More than likely, the internal vitriol continued in and out of issues for years, and it is all the more apparent that Ken should have left his job long ago, but, he was all too happy to drop more characters (that he'll swear from Heaven to Hell that he created every single one of them), into the series. Basically, I lost interest in Ken because a 4' character still cannot fit into a costume that is much smaller. (Read issues #47 & #49. Things that made sense.. stopped making sense, and, it was very tragic.)
So glad the idea of Scourge doing good, while trying to stroke his ego, was instead replaced with him sleeping with Bunnie while he was pretending to be Sonic. Look, if you wanna prove a character is an irredeemable monster in Sonic, maybe don’t have them be a rapist.
Maybe try adding italics (like _this_ ) or extending the "so" (soooooo) or something next time. Sarcasm isn't easy to pick up from text alone _(although in this case, there's enough context that you can pick up on the sarcasm)._ Juat a friendly suggestion. 😁
Oh there's definitely some wackier fanfics out there (especially if we include comics). But this comes close, which is impressive given that it's an officially licensed comic.
Nah, there are some wacky Sonic fanfic stories. It's somewhat mixed between good and straight up wacky and predictable. I can still remember one Sonic fanfic and it's kinda pathetic what they made Sally say
The fanfic where Sonic gains a ton of weight from eating lots of convenient mounds of food. Eggman uses this to his advantage to take over while Sonic is being a blob. Sonic eats more and blobrolls through Eggman's entire army before celebrating by eating MORE. The fanfic where Cream's ovaries gets supercharged by the chaos emeralds and bangs Tails (Consent? Wats that?), filling the area with her gigantic pulsating kicking belly and mass milk flooding boobas. Sonic drowns(?) But Cream becomes the Queen of chaos and fertility as her body fluids affected other people. The fanfic where Blaze got tired of Silver being the multiverse's shiet catcher so she becomes a big tidey demigod, destroying the worlds that picked on him the most, and doing a lot of questionable stuff. Yea it goes on.
@@nessesaryschoolthing Amy does get stuff , but it’s all over the place , sonic does like like amy , and sometimes even straight up loves her or subtle hints like him keeping the bracelet she made for him, him visiting Amy first and giving her a flower , and sonic being pretty sad Amy didn’t recognize him when he was a werehog , but at the same time 90% of interaction in the 2000s between Amy and sonic are “woah Amy “ and Amy being over the top 😭
What's funny about this comic where sonic is kissing all the girls he can is that i had that specific comic it was like 1 out of the 2 comics i ever had of archie. 😂😂😂😂
Ken and Archie writing all these disgusting stuff lead to Sega stepping down and eventually putting restrictions on future comics. Issues like these alienated characters like Sonic. Now they have several rules including characters won't have any relationships.
Your becoming one of my favorite sonic content creators to watch! Please keep up the good work! Also me hearing About this comic I can understand why you both love and hate evil sonic.
What fucks me up is that they tried to do an edgy story with Art Mawhinney's (sp?)art style. His style was best for stories set in the past, as it's very childlike.
I'm surprised it wasn't said in the video that rouge was sucking with Knuckles' father. I understand that rouge is a catwoman but... After all, she hasn't kissed anyone else since this release. It would be nice if she kissed every man... But no, just one kiss and a very strange one
I feel its stuff like this that makes me not really want to read the Archie comics even if there are good parts because there's always gonna be some asterisk to acompany it. I feel this is also one of the main reasons I'd prefer Sonic to not have a girlfriend at all, that and I generally follow game canon anyway and don't really think romance is Sonic's cup of tea. Maybe I just don't get it, but I don't understand people's necessity to pair Sonic up with every single female character in existence and turn it into a whole love octagon. I especially wouldn't want what is essentially a fanfiction in an official comic. Is it really such a terrible thing for Sonic to just be single and be satisfied? It also kinda feels like these characters are being objectified too. Like their whole existence is to be with Sonic.
So sonic underground is another of the alternate universes in the Archie continuity. Same could be said for Satam and Adventures of Sonic The hedgehog. Fleetway too I guess. Let’s also include Rare’s Nintendo era since Sonic’s shoes were in DKC2, you get of course DKC, Banjo Kazooie, and Conker’s Bad Fur Day.
A better example of "villain takes over the hero's life and learns to be somewhat better" is the Superior Spider-Man comic series with Doctor Octopus in Peter Parker's body.
I actually like having all the romance stuff, if it was executed better then there wouldn’t be any problem. Also didn’t bunnie agree to make out with him? Edit: oh It’s because of evil Sonic’s identity fraud.
Also probably because of this storyline and Ken being an ego manic, it’s the reason scourge will never make a return ever again especially when his own comic was cancelled. It’s also why surge was invented as a way to sorta fix the mess Ken did to scourge
8:48 “what is wrong with him?” My dude…. He is literally EVIL sonic, it’s his whole character to be evil and do evil things. So of course cheating on everyone is a part of being evil.
The point I was trying to make with that wasn't "why would an evil person do evil things". It was "why is Ken focusing in on this singular aspect as the main trait of why Evil is evil?" That aspect being of how he functions in relationships and how that's depicted in issue 150 and how the mention of cheating in 151 is just piling onto that - as if this is the only thing to know about the character - hence "why did Ken make him this"
@@hsquidreviews i think ken just liked portraying relationships in archie sonic stories, so he just added evil sonic into the relationship side of the comic. i get the impression that he really loved the concept of evil sonic tricking everyone around him into thinking hes the real sonic. i get the impression that they wanted to focus on the womanizer aspects of evil sonic for those particular issues which gels well with kens interest in telling relationship stories. so i get why he would do it.
I've been watching your archie content for over 2 years now. Im kinda happy that you're covering this series it is my favorite Incarnation of these characters. My real question is, what are your thoughts on idw? I would like to hear em.
Hey quick question why do you have a warning of SA? Honestly asking I'm just confused because it looks like bunny was ok with "taking a nap" with scourge and didn't regret.
Regret is irrelevant in this case. If someone lies about their identity and that lie is the primary reason consent was given, then legally speaking, consent was not properly obtained and is considered SA. You cannot bamboozle someone into consenting.
@@hsquidreviews ok everything made sense right up until the "You cannot bamboozle someone into consenting." Like I'm assuming you had a typo and meant to say "can".
No - if you lie about your identity to someone and they say "I consent" - then you did not get consent. They did not consent to you - they consented to the person you lied about being, so consent was not obtained.
@ilyamuromez6412 wait what? I think you got some things mixed up. Scourge rips out patch’s (evil Antoine) eye and had killed his own dad. It was patch that killed Antoine’s dad with poison.
Scourge also left Anti-bunnie for dead once she got NIDS and left Rouge for dead thinking she died fighting knuckles' dad, Locke and this happened during Flynn's run, so keep that in mind. I wrote a fanfiction where Fiona finally dumps Scourge when he leaves her for dead too. She kicks him in the balls and throws him through the Warp Ring back to the No Zone as a way of reminding him that he wouldn't have gotten out of there if it weren't for her.
I still think it’s absolutely insane how Ken doubled down on the implied r@pe via deception and victim blamed Bunnie.
What'd he say this time?
Yikes×1000
It really makes me worry for the women in his life.
The r@pe for those who don't know is everyone thought they were sleeping with Sonic but it was Evil Sonic doing that under his identity. Which is a real thing that's super illegal and happens irl.
@@Topdoggie7 I believe the term they use is False Pretenses
Issue 150 gave us 2 things
1. Implied R@pe
2. Titan Tails
Only 1 of them is remembered more better
i remember a streamer calling titan tails cleetus and going like "my name is cleetus and im gonna destroy you because you look like a feetus"
Its stuff like this that makes prefer IDW despite my nostalgia for Archie
IDW also has problems, but yea I can see why.
@Mister_Domm u and him both suck IDW Sell Outs!
@@Mister_Don888at least it’s consistent. Consistency mid.
Found the Archie fanboi
@@Docoboi pardon me, I’m using the actual definition for mid rather than the TikTok one lol.
IDW is good at what it does, it expands on the characters’ morals, the new cast is perfectly designed and integrated, and the stakes are intense when they’re able to work around the mandates.
My problems are some of the more subjective ones, as the stakes haven’t felt as high since the metal virus, I think the infiltration arc is contrived, character drama is pretty basic, and the villains aren’t nearly as unique and impactful as Archie (coming off of what little I’ve read and researched).
"Hey, whos your favourite Sonic character?"
"STEVE PENDERS."
I remember Archie, and Ian Flynn confirmed "nothing happened between Bunnie and Evil Sonic." (Later known as Scourge) Though, we know Ken's intentions given what he said about Sally and Geoffrey...
Still, I just ignore that moment, and I'm with Archie and Ian... "nothing happened."
I think this story is why fans and writers were getting burnt out on the shipping, and why Archie started to tone down the romance a bit.
As for Ken Penders, I try to be fair too, but it's hard to be neutral with him sometimes as he says/does annoying things, and he either makes really good issues, or really bad ones, and usually somewhere between.
The problem with Ken is he was given so much freedom he didn't know what to do with he basically started projecting his personal fantasy drama such as writing the death of Knuckle's dad based on his own father's passing in a future issue and getting mad when it was basically soft retconned out canon.
If he was given a more reasonable version of the Sonic Mandates to start his work would've been better for it
it’s more about the reason why ken decided to imply that rather than the fact it happened or not. It completely destroys the immersion bc you just have to ask what he was thinking
The problem is Scourge later implies he slept with everyone while pretending to be Sonic so it's in book canon. Ew.
@@Topdoggie7 When did he ever imply that?
@@CometX-ing Later issues Amy expresses disappointment it wasn't her and Fiona says Scourge touched her differently.
Crazy how this is sounds like fanfiction, then 10 issues later a fan is the new head writer and its 1000 times better
Okay while I love what Ian did with Scrouge
I am interested what would've happen if Evil-Sonic actually liked and "tried" to do good...
I do wish we had Karl instead of Ken
He’d still be a less tolerable version of Sonic
Fleetway Super Sonic already did that.
@@espurrseyes42how did that turn out?
@@leviticusprime4904
TLDR Fleetway Super is a split personality resulting from Emerald radiation that triggers when Sonic gets severely stressed or put in near death situations.
Eventually Super got split from Sonic, went on to be a villain for a bit, the calmed down when he started losing his power. He tried living a normal life (even got a job I believe), but ultimately had to absorb Perfect Chaos to not die from his near empty tank of energy, and ended up becoming evil again.
Eh, not everything Bollers did was great.. quite a bit of it was problematic (He was responsible for changing Sally Acorn into one of the most unlikable characters in the book, and he like Ken, claims to own various characters he doesn't actually own.. one of whom is even a relative of a main character (Hope Kintobor, a niece of Robotnik's)
Karl just looks good standing next to Ken
I knew that this story was pretty bad and down right creepy, but I didn’t know it was based off Karl Bollars original idea.
Next to Ian Flynn, Karl Bollars is one of my favorite writers for the series, I would have gladly preferred his version over this disgusting interpretation of the characters.
Fiona the Fox at 9:57 looks so adorable there. She really is like "I'm here too". I don't know why i like this picture so much.
Fiona on this era was kinda funny as you can tell they were trying to make her relevant, but kept just writing her as a wannabe Sally. Ian seemed to like her though, as his early fan comics before Archie had her and Sonic as a couple, and he was the one who actually gave her a role as villain.
Just imagining Scourge turning good sounds so cool! Wish it was used though...
The closest I've seen is Evan Stanley's fancomic ghosts of the future
Nice seeing you here, Scott! That would not be cool and I prefer him dead
@@awesomepixel447Lol ur opinion.
There is a second chance with Surge, though.
He’d be a sonic 2.0 with a bad attitude. It’s cool in theory but would be bad for the character. Lol
I’ve been scripting out my own AU where a spiteful, arrogant mobian is tasked to infiltrate Sonic’s friend group and destroy it from within, but in that time, he learns about the true value of the bonds they share and why it’s important to preserve it, thus inspiring him to forge his own path.
This video gave me a lot of perspective on how to approach the story and make its long term consequences actually mean something, so I thank you for that.
I don't let this part ruin the whole story for me, but yeah wtf? Shit like this made the course corrections Ian made much more justifiable at the start of his run. This is just a reminder that Kenders was a huge part of the series' downfall even before the suing.
Plus Ken completely ruined the chances of us getting a sequel to Chronicles on top of everything, so fuck him lol
Chronicles didn't do well financially or critically because it was a rushed RPG trying to copy the Mario RPGs held together with scotch tape and bad sprites. Penders ruined everything for Archie comics but I don't think Chronicles getting shelved was his total fault.
@@jack_stone Fair enough. I just think it's petty as fuck to sue over a title that never got used in the game's story (especially since they made a prequel story for it in one of their books lol). I just liked that we had an actual Sonic RPG for a while, even if it was kinda trashy.
Plus I liked the option that you could either "romance" or mock Amy though the whole thing... or both lol
This is honestly the first time I'm seeing someone upset about Chronicles. Like every time I bring up that game everyone essentially Boos me. Yes the game sucked but I'd be lying if I said 12 yr old me didn't sink several hours on my DS getting perfect dodge combos.
@@sclarinet9088 We can still enjoy the bad Sonic games. A lot of people have the mentality that we can't enjoy it just because that it's bad. I won't give the game a high score either but dammit, I'll enjoy what I like if I like it.
i'm more confused on how evil sonic, "did it" with Bunni, her lower half is robot.
Apparently it's only her legs _(and arm)_ that got roboticized, not the... part connecting then. How concerningly convenient.
In fact, some early model sheets for the 90s cartoon show her with only partially roboticized legs, from the knees down. Strange. Really strange.
"How would you?"
- Tenma Maemi, on the subject of a fridge.
Issue 150 was my first Sonic comic. I was weirded out since I had only played the games. I felt tricked by the cover because it looked so amazing. I was expecting a story in the middle of a grand adventure. Instead, I got a fanfic make-out story. I still like the cover, though.
Finally got around to watching this video and it was great stuff! Super appreciated the use of the HD scans since I think they go a long way to help the presentation when talking about Archie Sonic.
ArchieSonicLore spotted 👀
I remember 150 being my very first Sonic comic. It was on sale at my local library and bought it with my own money. Needless to say, kid me was left more confused than satisfied and never bothered picking up another Archie Sonic after that.
This is great stuff, love seeing you dip your toe into longer form stuff! Defo want that pre-reboot rouge video!
The fact issue 150 has the most normal cover ever 💀
As someone who used to read almost all of the archie comics at a young age and remembers reading issue 150, I now realize that there were quite a few things that went over my head as a child...
honestly, somehow, I keep forgetting that Scourge actually IS evil sonic. I just always see him as someone new with some history, because these days I just tend to only read issue 160 onward. Evil Sonic may as well have just died at some point and Scourge was just a better replacement.
Comics in a nutshell
I always choose to forget about Evil Sonic hooking up with the girls and skip to the part where sonic finds out he switched their roles, I find evil clone swaps to be cool, like what Web-Man best example sonic wise…Shadow but….what the fuck was penders thinking when he wrote this…?
He probably wasn't thinking at all. Not about the ramifications for sure, and certainly not with the right head.
I can like Scourge because as far as I am concerned Ken’s tweet mean nothing for the actual story. They took a nap under a tree and that’s all that matters to me. Scourge is a cool villain under Ian and Penders is the equivalent of a deadbeat dad while Ian is the step father who actually gave a damn.
It's heavily heavily implied in the scene though, you're just choosing not to believe scourge committed SA just because you like him lmao
@@Spleenchomper “Heavily implied” No its not, Penders’ stated intent after the fact may have been that, but with the story itself there’s no implication of sex nor would it even make sense for Bunnie to do that with Sonic to begin with even if she and Antoine were apart. Penders has said outright Archie didn’t let him tell a story about Geoffrey and Sally having sex before, so why would they even allow it between Sonic and Bunnie even if it wasn’t Scourge. I choose to take the comic at face value (when it says its just a nap it’s just a nap) and don’t account for things said retroactively on twitter by some guy who a known weirdo.
@@CometX-ing then why does scourge look like that in that scene my guy I'm pretty sure they just said nap so they could get away with it because they wouldn't obviously let them just say sex yk, I don't even know any scourge would be napping with bunnie against a tree anyway who does that 😭😭
Ken has some weird issues with relationships. That and his denial of asexuals just makes me uncomfortable in general about this whole mess even more. And the "nap" evil and Bun had already is just so nope.
Shortening "Evil Sonic" to just "Evil" feels kinda funny.
When Ken basically said scourge and bunnie slept together, I was just shouting WHAT, over and over again
Between this, the movie pitch he screwed over Ben Hurst for, the use of "First they came" for his worldbuilding and the recently released nightmare that is The Lara-Su Chronicles, Penders is just a veritable font of cursed, deranged and utterly incompetent cringe.
im willing to give ken a pass about his comment about "forgiving bunnie" comment because i think he just meant that antoine would feel hurt for bunnie dating sonic. not that she did something wrong, but that he would look past a relationship where other people might feel hurt that they dated.
While I'm watching i just remembered a fan comic were archie sonic explains to fleetway sonic about sonic ex-girls and fleetway sonic gets lost in confusion
man it really pisses me off when women characters (or really, their relationships with the male characters) are used only as cheap romance drama in story plots. It sometimes feels like certain writers can’t think of anything except “they should kiss xyz”, and then go on to imply that only the woman is at fault for the fallout
Another great video. I never realized until now as an adult that this scene between Bunnie and Evil Sonic was that goddddd Ken why. Did the Sonic franchise need this
I've ever bought one Sonic comic in my life and it was THIS one (plus a story with a giant Tails and a Sonic X portion where Sonic, Amy, and Knuckles were transported to Sonic 1 for the Sega Genesis)
I definitely wanna see a Rouge video! It felt like she was dealt a bad hand for various reasons
Seconding this! Rouge is easily my favorite character ❤😂
@@hollycrossingxo she’s so sassy I love her
Thanks Ken
Man Boellers plans with Evil Sonic sounds very similar to that one comic of Squadron Supreme when the evil Hyperion created by Grandmaster essentially replaced the good one as part of a scene of destroying the team from the inside (which failed due to him actually enjoying being good).
You can really tell that when Penders was handed these notes, he really lasered in on Scourge making moves on Fiona, which was likely just supposed to be one example of multiple that Scourge would use Sonic's respected status to do bad stuff, and thought that was by far the most important part.
*"Every character is definied by their relationships and not necesarily the romantic ones."* - Ken, May 2019 _(in the context of Sonic not being allowed to have a girlfriend)_
Make sense he'd focus on Evil Sonic "making movs on Fiona". Relationships are the be-all and end-all, so clearly Sonic having his relationships ruined would be the most severe blow in his life, right?
Penders makes being an Archie Sonic fans so hard. Also, you gotta keep making longform vids. They're dope
honestly scourge is so far removed from evil sonic in my mind that despite finding this story abhorrent, it doesn't really affect my thoughts on him at all
Always nice when a friend of mine finds out abt archie sonic weirdness and i have to explain that yeah scourge really did all that
I saw a comment of someone writing an AU where things are written differently and man I’m taking up the mantle for my own where the characters are not as dumb, petty and…… horny 🤦🏻♀️
I remember this, I didn't like Evil Sonic aka Scourge. To me, he felt like a cheap version of Sonic just a bigger ego. I remember being disappointed that it wasn't the real Sonic that was dating Bunnie, honestly they look great together (Favorite ship) I hated what Scourge did to her. Ken Penders doesn't understand romance, nothing but a cheap writer that bought more damage to the franchise
Finally almost everyone loves scourge and half of the people who love him too are simps 😢 he literally SA'd her guys there's so many way better sonic characters to like, scourge isn't THAT special
@@Spleenchomper I think some of us like him because we sympathized with him during the prison arc.
I personally like him because he’s an interesting villain… though I think Ken adding implied SA was fucking vile.
It’s also confirmed by Ian Flynn that the implied SA has been retconned. (And honestly… I’m taking Ian’s word over Ken “making a child kiss an adult” penders.
(Hope I don’t come off as rude, that’s just my explanation.)
I am more shocked that anyone gave it the greenlight to be published. How lazy and unorganized was Archie Comics to let this happen?!
Keep in mind they were somehow ignorant of Sally being given a realistic gun that looks like a revolver one would find in real life. Once they found out, Archie Comics was somehow dumbfounded but couldn't do anything about it as it was already being read and sold by that time.
13:58
This is me with Geoffrey St. John late Pre-reboot. Just change one story to an entire arc.
I always wondered why Sonic fans are such degens despite the games themselves being very departed from sexual themes.
Guess this is why.
I don't get why Ken thought of making evil Sonic a playboy and writing him cucking everyone. This is a kids comic series. Why did he thought Sonic could be this playboy playing with girl's hearts. I feel bad for Poor Antoine and Tails.
He wanted the girl audience that ended up making Twilight uber successful, and the several melodramas that this honestly felt like a parody of.
What about that bit where Sally Acorn slapped Sonic and called him selfish, leading to that infamous break-up? I may have only skimmed through that part, but I still thought the main cause for that to happen in the first place was highly neglected writing lead to a sever characfer derailment.
3:26 The idea that Evil Sonic taking Sonic's place and becoming a hero is interesting to me. It shows that Evil Sonic wasn't evil because he was evil.
“Most popular character we’re never going to see again” even more than Sally? 😮
she got a background cameo in the sonic forces prequel comic - i got more faith we'll see sally again than scourge lol
@@hsquidreviews where probably more likely to see Sally and the rest of the freedom fighter again scourge not so much I doubt we’ll ever see him again
shes technically owned by sega now so its a possibility
sally at least has bread crumbs. scourge is his own kind of beast that can’t even be revived by his own comic that almost got made
Also, alternative sonics or sonic barons, bariants are of the table
So much of the art in this looks like it exist in a universe where everyone looks like those warp melty Sonic popsicles.
Also it goes to show you that the Comic Code Authority Approval holds no value when a comic with implied Assault gained their approval. You know someone is asleep at the wheel but they want to wield power to pretend they have some kind of authority.
Ah yes, the cuck wars arc, truly legendary. I'd actually argue the worst was the one where Sonic goes back to Nates old station to pay respect to Eddie (whom he barely even knew) only to get in a "fight" with Naugus that was just pages of snowflakes. Talk about phoned in!
One thing I never see talking about when there's a discussion about penders is how good his early contributions were. I started reading the comics just recently and I'm only at issue 26, so I haven't seen all the weird stuff he made even tho I heard a lot about it. But so far, the quality as gone way up ever since he got there. Might not redeem everything else, but his early stories were good fun
They're definitely kinda dumb when you sit down and think them through, but the same could be said about most stories from that era. Issue 19 is a fun, over-the-top story, the 21-22 two-parter is pretty cool, the Sally and Knuckles minis were neat if flawed, and to tease the near-future issues for you, the Endgame finale was great if, once again, quite flawed, and Issue 36 was honestly mind-blowing when I first read it. I got spoiled on a bunch of things from the comics, yet I did NOT see what happened in 36 coming. Granted, I probably enjoyed it so much because it was one of the first issues I read after a long break, but still. 😅
I'll just be honest it's stuff like this that makes me really dislike preboot Archie Sonic. Ian did his best for working hard and trying to salvage and clean up what Ken did but a lot of this mess just ruins it for me. I completely understand why Sega had mandates on the comics since reboot Archie & IDW a lot of this is just gross and unnecessary.
Fr. I hate the mandates unnecessary limitations but who can blame them after what happened the first time they let a comic company have free reigns. I guess it's another thing we can thank Ken for.
@@jack_stonehonestly I'm glad you both see the pros and cons to the mandates
You’re not the only one who called these issues the worst. I saw another review on them. Ugh! This is way too much!
I wish we got some of the ideas Bollers had for Amy! Even if they took out the romance angle, there was still so much potential for her. But no, she was still kept more of a background character despite her many roles in games.
Ken (in my opinion), seems like the type that just wants to do things 'His Way or The High Way.'
Most companies usually don't like that very much. In fact, I dare say that most companies prefer consistently.. That was something that Archie Comics wasn't.
But, back to ol' Kenneth - I think that there was some bad blood that was boiling between him and his former bosses. Grudges can set in, and the 'Screw All Of Them!' mentality sets in. (The latter seemed to reverb within issues #47 - #50. Much hell broke loose when Ken wanted Princess Sally to 'stay dead' because she was considered to be excessive baggage for Sonic.')
More than likely, the internal vitriol continued in and out of issues for years, and it is all the more apparent that Ken should have left his job long ago, but, he was all too happy to drop more characters (that he'll swear from Heaven to Hell that he created every single one of them), into the series.
Basically, I lost interest in Ken because a 4' character still cannot fit into a costume that is much smaller. (Read issues #47 & #49. Things that made sense.. stopped making sense, and, it was very tragic.)
7:35 best ad cut off ever
So glad the idea of Scourge doing good, while trying to stroke his ego, was instead replaced with him sleeping with Bunnie while he was pretending to be Sonic.
Look, if you wanna prove a character is an irredeemable monster in Sonic, maybe don’t have them be a rapist.
Maybe try adding italics (like _this_ ) or extending the "so" (soooooo) or something next time. Sarcasm isn't easy to pick up from text alone _(although in this case, there's enough context that you can pick up on the sarcasm)._ Juat a friendly suggestion. 😁
@@robertlupa8273 I will, sorry if it did seem like sarcasm.
@@TheSFMWondereryou’re fine if people can’t read it they can just ask and it’s one them lmfao
None of the fanfics are as wacky as shit Ken actually did
Ken walked so maladjusted fanfic writers could run tbh
Oh there's definitely some wackier fanfics out there (especially if we include comics). But this comes close, which is impressive given that it's an officially licensed comic.
Nah, there are some wacky Sonic fanfic stories. It's somewhat mixed between good and straight up wacky and predictable. I can still remember one Sonic fanfic and it's kinda pathetic what they made Sally say
I mean, horse link and horse sonic destroying an enemy camp and sensually treating their wounds is weirder in my book, less disgusting, but more weird
The fanfic where Sonic gains a ton of weight from eating lots of convenient mounds of food. Eggman uses this to his advantage to take over while Sonic is being a blob. Sonic eats more and blobrolls through Eggman's entire army before celebrating by eating MORE.
The fanfic where Cream's ovaries gets supercharged by the chaos emeralds and bangs Tails (Consent? Wats that?), filling the area with her gigantic pulsating kicking belly and mass milk flooding boobas. Sonic drowns(?) But Cream becomes the Queen of chaos and fertility as her body fluids affected other people.
The fanfic where Blaze got tired of Silver being the multiverse's shiet catcher so she becomes a big tidey demigod, destroying the worlds that picked on him the most, and doing a lot of questionable stuff.
Yea it goes on.
10:50 lol Archie did Amy so dirty in so many ways 😂
Doesn't Amy ALWAYS get nothing, though? Somehow, this doesn't seem far off from how Sega usually treats her, lol
Archie does all the game characters that aren’t knuckles to prop up the freedom fighters
@@nessesaryschoolthing Amy does get stuff , but it’s all over the place , sonic does like like amy , and sometimes even straight up loves her or subtle hints like him keeping the bracelet she made for him, him visiting Amy first and giving her a flower , and sonic being pretty sad Amy didn’t recognize him when he was a werehog , but at the same time 90% of interaction in the 2000s between Amy and sonic are “woah Amy “ and Amy being over the top 😭
Been awhile since I've been on this channel. Glad to be back 👍
Ok when seeing the thumbnail I thought it was gonna be like an affair story I did not expect it to include r*p*
I see evil sonic and Scourge as two different people TBH.
(Scourge is more fleshed out and a bit more complex than Evil sonic was.)
why does no one mention that ken stole psyguys character design for scourge???
Man, no wonder I prefer Sonic the Comic
that why ken penders is terrible sonic writer,
i prefer daniel barnes or shiro maekawa better sonic writers
What's funny about this comic where sonic is kissing all the girls he can is that i had that specific comic it was like 1 out of the 2 comics i ever had of archie. 😂😂😂😂
Ken and Archie writing all these disgusting stuff lead to Sega stepping down and eventually putting restrictions on future comics. Issues like these alienated characters like Sonic. Now they have several rules including characters won't have any relationships.
Sonic the Horndog
Your becoming one of my favorite sonic content creators to watch! Please keep up the good work!
Also me hearing About this comic I can understand why you both love and hate evil sonic.
What fucks me up is that they tried to do an edgy story with Art Mawhinney's (sp?)art style. His style was best for stories set in the past, as it's very childlike.
I'm surprised it wasn't said in the video that rouge was sucking with Knuckles' father. I understand that rouge is a catwoman but... After all, she hasn't kissed anyone else since this release. It would be nice if she kissed every man... But no, just one kiss and a very strange one
They took a nap in my eyes.
I hope they took a nap, or else I'm gonna snap 😳
I feel its stuff like this that makes me not really want to read the Archie comics even if there are good parts because there's always gonna be some asterisk to acompany it. I feel this is also one of the main reasons I'd prefer Sonic to not have a girlfriend at all, that and I generally follow game canon anyway and don't really think romance is Sonic's cup of tea.
Maybe I just don't get it, but I don't understand people's necessity to pair Sonic up with every single female character in existence and turn it into a whole love octagon. I especially wouldn't want what is essentially a fanfiction in an official comic. Is it really such a terrible thing for Sonic to just be single and be satisfied? It also kinda feels like these characters are being objectified too. Like their whole existence is to be with Sonic.
stuff like this just isn’t Sonic
So evil sonic screwed Bunniy seriously WTF what!
So sonic underground is another of the alternate universes in the Archie continuity. Same could be said for Satam and Adventures of Sonic The hedgehog. Fleetway too I guess. Let’s also include Rare’s Nintendo era since Sonic’s shoes were in DKC2, you get of course DKC, Banjo Kazooie, and Conker’s Bad Fur Day.
A better example of "villain takes over the hero's life and learns to be somewhat better" is the Superior Spider-Man comic series with Doctor Octopus in Peter Parker's body.
This was a great video.
I wonder what your thoughts are on "The Slap" issue.
The other worst comic that i feel like gets more attention over #150.
These issues also have some of the worst art in the entire Archie run, even including Ron Lim and Penders himself.
I'm pretty sure Sally Acorn is the most popular character will never see again...🤣😅😮💨🥺😭
#150 was the issue of all time!!
I actually like having all the romance stuff, if it was executed better then there wouldn’t be any problem. Also didn’t bunnie agree to make out with him?
Edit: oh It’s because of evil Sonic’s identity fraud.
Also probably because of this storyline and Ken being an ego manic, it’s the reason scourge will never make a return ever again especially when his own comic was cancelled.
It’s also why surge was invented as a way to sorta fix the mess Ken did to scourge
Ok I had no idea this part of the comic existed but after watching this video I think I’m gonna hurl 🤢
NO WOUNDER WHY THE FADOM IS LIKE THIS
I just read this and it is by far a very mind numbing read.
I guess you can say Scourge gave Bunnie his Evil Chili Do-
Go sit in the corner
He SA'd her though...?????
8:48 “what is wrong with him?” My dude…. He is literally EVIL sonic, it’s his whole character to be evil and do evil things. So of course cheating on everyone is a part of being evil.
The point I was trying to make with that wasn't "why would an evil person do evil things". It was "why is Ken focusing in on this singular aspect as the main trait of why Evil is evil?" That aspect being of how he functions in relationships and how that's depicted in issue 150 and how the mention of cheating in 151 is just piling onto that - as if this is the only thing to know about the character - hence "why did Ken make him this"
@@hsquidreviews i think ken just liked portraying relationships in archie sonic stories, so he just added evil sonic into the relationship side of the comic. i get the impression that he really loved the concept of evil sonic tricking everyone around him into thinking hes the real sonic. i get the impression that they wanted to focus on the womanizer aspects of evil sonic for those particular issues which gels well with kens interest in telling relationship stories. so i get why he would do it.
What is doing in my Sonic Comic?
I have a question who fought this was a good idea
Do you know where you can find the document of Karl Boilers original plan?
I've been watching your archie content for over 2 years now. Im kinda happy that you're covering this series it is my favorite Incarnation of these characters.
My real question is, what are your thoughts on idw? I would like to hear em.
0:57 To be honest, I never really cared about Scourge. 😂
Im goad Silver wasn't around
Hey quick question why do you have a warning of SA? Honestly asking I'm just confused because it looks like bunny was ok with "taking a nap" with scourge and didn't regret.
Regret is irrelevant in this case. If someone lies about their identity and that lie is the primary reason consent was given, then legally speaking, consent was not properly obtained and is considered SA. You cannot bamboozle someone into consenting.
@@hsquidreviews ok everything made sense right up until the "You cannot bamboozle someone into consenting." Like I'm assuming you had a typo and meant to say "can".
No - if you lie about your identity to someone and they say "I consent" - then you did not get consent. They did not consent to you - they consented to the person you lied about being, so consent was not obtained.
@@hsquidreviews ok thank you for explaining it for me.
@@Blitzpartier yeah I think he just meant "The consent doesn't exist if you bamboozle someone into it."
This is the reason why i don't care and like scourge and I just don't understand his hype. He is a gross little gremlin.
Trust me he gets better
@@mediamuncher69 wow he rips Antoine's eye out and killed his dad.
@ilyamuromez6412 Oh yeah!? You're right! I actually forgot...
@@ilyamuromez6412 he did WHAT?!?!? That's brutal
@ilyamuromez6412 wait what? I think you got some things mixed up. Scourge rips out patch’s (evil Antoine) eye and had killed his own dad. It was patch that killed Antoine’s dad with poison.
8:43 Am I reading this correctly? Bruh yelled out woof like a dog. ☠️☠️☠️
I _think_ it may have been intened to be him trying to say "wait!" but getting interrupted. At least, I hope that's the case.
I'm still early in my readthrough of Archie, and every time I'm reminded that evil sonic isn't a one off shit post character, it blows my mind.
Wooooooow, thanks, Ken
Scourge also left Anti-bunnie for dead once she got NIDS and left Rouge for dead thinking she died fighting knuckles' dad, Locke and this happened during Flynn's run, so keep that in mind. I wrote a fanfiction where Fiona finally dumps Scourge when he leaves her for dead too. She kicks him in the balls and throws him through the Warp Ring back to the No Zone as a way of reminding him that he wouldn't have gotten out of there if it weren't for her.
I love these Sonic comics!
Do you know, scourge, eternal blackout