Alfred Stieglitz on pictorial photography, "Let me here call attention to one of the most universally popular mistakes that have to do with photography - that of classing supposedly excellent work as professional, and using the term amateur to convey the idea of immature productions and to excuse atrociously poor photographs. As a matter of fact nearly all the greatest work is being, and has always been done, by those who are following photography for the love of it, and not merely for financial reasons." I write this quote in relation to your use of the term "enthusiast." I refer to myself to as a "photography enthusiast" because I do not take pictures for the money. Is your meaning of enthusiast referring to any photographer who is not a professional photographer?
I always laugh at that people who post their pictures as "unedited" or "no filter" on Instagram but at the end your phone already edited your pictures for you without even asking
I really appreciate your effort to look into how computational photography is presently advancing image making. One thing to add perhaps is that the very same computational imaging practice has been getting into the MILC segment for sure, with great results - and it is just the beginning. So I guess while smartphones are really coming up to speed and utilize this technology as much as they can, camera companies like Olympus, for an obvious instance, are heavily investing in applying computational imaging to enhance traditional camera making and to bring it to the next level. And yes, it is definitely not about formats or whatever :P Great video, great project.
Ted heres an idea - take a typical family photo portrait on each of your phones Using their auto AI systems and print it say 8x10 (Adarama). See which produces a pleasing result?
Ted, can you test and discuss removable smartphone lens? Clip on and phone case attachments create a slightly deeper dive into the possibilities of smartphone photography.
Although I am a Computer Scientist myself (or maybe just because of that), my reaction towards computational imaging is that I am thinking of switching back to analog. I will probably not really do that, but somehow I lose the joy of photography and feel more disconnected from my photos and my subjects when using smartphones and in fact even when using an EVF. Post-processing on the other hand in some way feels different to me. But then again, this is just me; and I might have a different view in a couple of years - when it comes to photography it seems, I am a late adopter: Having started to take photos in 1980, I only made the switch to autofocus in 1999 and to digital in 2008, so maybe I will be ready for EVF in 2025 (though I already use one occasionally) and computational imaging in 2030 (though I use my smartphone and tablet frequently and sometimes even for photography).
Dont get me wrong.... i understand where you coming from but what i love about the phones camera is that i have it always with me. I own a DSLR also with a couple of nice lensen and of course its no match but the best camera is the one that you have with you in the time of need and this is what made me love the phones camera.
@@TheChameleon2008 You are absolutely right, of course. I am just speaking for myself and about my feelings towards this "new-fashioned stuff" as my grandaunt would have called it. I don't want to pretend that this is rational or that anybody else should feel this way; it is just that I don't enjoy this way of photography. I will use my smartphone if I don't have anything else available, of course. However, if I plan to take photos - be it on a trip to a city, a day hike or a multi-day hike in nature, I would always take my DSLR along - so whenever I plan to take photos, the camera I have with me is in fact my DSLR. I just returned from a three-day city trip taking architectural and industrial photos with my DSLM because I wanted to see for myself if I would enjoy the experience (with a light-weight and less bulky equipment to carry around all day). It was ok, but next time I would use my DSLR again. I also had my smartphone with me all the time and didn't take a single photo with it; I might have for some Instagram shots, but I just didn't.
@@haraldselke yea i know but sometimes you have to embrace the awesome new tech even if it might seem complicated because i think phone camera have come a long way and with features like night mode, time lapse etc make it so different then my Nikon DSLR. Both are awesome to have in the arsenal and do their specific job :)
@@TheChameleon2008 The reason for me not enjoying this type of photography is not that these things are complicated. Most of the time they are not. However, much comes down to what you want to achieve. For me, night mode, time lapse etc. are nothing I worry about. My subjects are landscape, cityscape and architecture (plus portraits occasionally). Of course, for you things might be completely different. What I am trying to say is basically that for me (and maybe just for me) computational imaging is quite exactly the opposite of what I love about photography.
It could be interesting if you could make a video on the Nokia 9 Pureview. That phone can shoot RAW MONOCHROME DNGs (mini Leica?)! It uses 3 monochrome and 2 RGB lenses with the same focal length. It then also uses algorithms to stitch the pictures together to create the best possible image.
I have been fascinated with the images you have been posting on your Instagram page. This video confirmed many of these (perhaps all) have been coming from the Pixel 3. Good on those folks at Google!
My biggest issue with smart phones is they are hard for me to handle. I worry about dropping it when taking a photo. The shutter button is not in a convenient place (I know it can be moved), so the ergonomics keep me from using it very often. Yes it is handy when I don't have a camera with me. In some cases it is quicker and easier to use the phone than my camera. As I rarely use my phone for phone calls I've begun to think of it as a point and shoot camera. One big advantage of course is I can post shots to email or facebook easily from the Galaxy S9+. I use a real camera for 98% of my shots, even though I have the phone with me almost 100% of the time.
What’s really interesting is when computational photo will start to make something new, because for now computational photography is just trying to replicate what bigger cameras can do bigger hardware. We will see!
I don't have any issue with smartphones as photography tools, though I think physical limitations will always mean dedicated cameras will have a place. Of course larger sensors and lenses, but also ergonomics that only a dedicated camera can provide. That said, I often use my cheap smartphone for photography when that's the only thing I decided to bring on an outing (phone cameras are good composition practice tools...). They are tools with positives and negatives like everything else. My smartphone isn't recent enough to offer much in the way of computational photography, but I can see those features being good or bad depending on the situation.
I was very surprised when I got my a6000 recently to see that the scene and intelligent modes have automatic image stacking from it's 11 frames a second shutter. It can do ISO stacking for better low light, and also to reduce camera shake at long focal lengths. These features despite it being almost 6 years old! With the ability to add applications, there is great potential to combine the advantages of manual control and computational imaging on a large(r) sensor. I know there are applications for astro-photography.
FYI there are a few videos here on YT which show the rotating lenses of SP cameras via coils and magnets. Sooo, there are moving parts in SP cameras...
Great video Ted Forbes and with a lot of info! I think I may have said it before, Phone Cameras compared to the Film Point & Shoot have taken huge leaps and for the average person is understandable that the image is good enough. However, I wonder if the next thing may be to enhance the litest and compactest of digital Point & Shoot cameras for someone like you Ted Forbes? Thanks for loving what you do and share so much with us throughout this fantastic and inspirational channel!
Hi,thanks for the video.Really interesting. I think the really srtong point of a smartphone camera is that you always have it with you and you can edit and send the pics to a friend, Facebook, etc very quickly and with very little effort. Concerning image quality even the most dull and boring landscape can look great or at least acceptable in a smartphone camera (unrealistic colours,too warm colour tones and oversharppened images with also too much contrast). Besides, shooting with a smartphone near a bridge or the sea can be very stressfull because of its ergonomy. Camera manufacturers should incorporate some smartphone camera features into their cameras to balance some of their disadvantages.
Really appreciate when the professional review about smartphone photography... Hope we can see more video from you sir about this. Thank you very much for your sharing this knowledge...
Computational Photography is the future of photography and smart phones are leading the way with this technology. I believe that JPEG will eventually be replaced by better video codecs, like JPEG2000, which supports lossy or lossless compression. Also, since smart phones are networked devices, I can also see smartphones supporting synthetic aperture photography. So, I believe it is an exciting future for photographers.
Dude please can you cover the hype of the USB camera from old phone stuff? There's so many people making fake videos and I even thought it was real at first. It would be awesome if you could explain how the camera works and communicates with your phone to take pictures. Thanks
Are you going to review the Nokia 9 pureview? Swedish photographer Mattias Burling just did a video about his and he loves the monochrome DNG raw files.
i hope a phone company comes out with a stand alone camera. 3-5 primes built in, a proper grip, evf, hot shoe or built in bounce flash, mic input, full manual. i think google is kinda doing this idea with the pixel 4 and some attachment for the phone. but i think a stand alone camera thats totally outside the box compared to the typical camera could be pretty amazing.
nah, because then its something you have to carry with you all the time. I rather have some kind of addon for the phone so that new features can be added and 3party development.
You really should try lg v series phones. I can shoot raw with my main and wide angle camera on my v20. Yes, it is only available in the pro mode like the samsung but at least it can shoot raw no matter which lens it is shooting from. Imagine what the newer v series can do with their cameras... Oh, and also lg has a really great video mode
Very interesting. I own a Pixel 3. How much of the smart phone tech will find it's way into full size cameras ? I have a Panasonic Fz 2500 bridge camera which I'm quite happy with. I'm 3 years into learning photography - have joined a small camera group of folks - and find the Fz 2500 to be a great tool for learning. In it's Scene Mode it has a Hand Held Night Shot setting that takes 5 exposures, increasing the ISO & shutter speed & then combines them into one composite image. These shots are so good - nice detail, well saturated, better quality than some single exposure shots - that I've begun using it for day time shooting. I think by using this feature that I'm able - to a degree - to get around the fact that I only have a 1 in. sensor. Thanks for doing this presentation.
Thanks for this review, this video... Simple: In term of photography Smartphones can't replace specialized devices built to take photographs: Digital Cameras. The fact smartphones companies are adding 3,5,... cameras in a cellphone to try to match digital cameras features and optics is a clear proof there are some limitations. Smartphones offer some liberties and accessibility but I don't think we are ready to have 50 cameras in one cellphones... At the end of the day, the quality of photographs is questionable when your really dig. The 108MP of the S20 will not be a digital cameras killer. People who tested this smartphone do not recommend it.... just 12MP... But cameras companies should learn from this era of quick photography and selfie-graphy : Shoot + Edit in camera with filters + share as fast as possible on social medias "for quick likes and views" ... who care about quality, details and composition, or even a story of your photograph? General consumer don't care about the monument, a cathedral in Havana, behind them when taking a selfie. Real photographers do. A real photographer needs to be able to provide a story, facts and location of the main cathedral in Havana he shot during trip. Camera companies need to review their line of products to adapt themselves to the new reality, ... Stop putting too much of cameras, or too much of variations on one product on the market. For compact cameras... 1.- Line of products: Why a G7X III and a G5XII? One with a viewfinder, the other one ... not. Keep one with all relevant features and discontinue the other one. The goal of a compact is to offer all in one body. 2.- Sensor size: Probably it is time to drop the 1/2.3”, unless you are Nikon with the very specialized bridges: #P950, #P1000, means you are stuck with: Sensor Size, Optics and massive focal range vs reasonable body size. I had a lot of fun with my old 1/2.3” canon bridge, I did photography stuffs I could not do my Samsung Galaxy. The minimum of sensor size for compact should be 1”. 1” sensor should shut down the false debate: Smartphones are better than Compact cameras. 2.- Minimum of features: Cameras companies should learn from this smartphone trend as well in term of accessibility, liberties. Like all digital camera, especially compact should have a touchscreen. Why the last P950 don’t have touchscreen? All compact should have a minimum of features to make them relevant today. You have a lot in one body plus the optics, somewhere smartphones can’t go. Some compacts (point and shoot, advanced compact- sensor >= 1”) could miss one or two options (hot shoe,…) or have less Focal length range. The purpose of a Bridge camera is to really offer DSLR and Mirrorless features in a body with fixed lens. If I have to buy a bridge… I will expect to have a crazy hybrid camera giving me a bunch of features for stills and videos. Touchscreen (articulated or tilting, but a real touchscreen for focusing, menu), hot shoe, Flash, 24/25 400/500/600 of FL (a bit of wide and a bit of telephoto), EVF, Focus Peaking/Stacking/Bracketing - Post Focus, JPG and RAW, 4K video, 4K photo / Raw Burst mode, Headphones and Mic jacks, Card slot on the side, Mode + Comp + Drive dials, Switch Video/Photo to features set separately, No more 1/2.3” but a 1” with 20 MP,… App for edit photo in cameras, Wi-fi, Bluetooth,… Photography is more than selfie-graphy. Camera companies should offer products that could attract smartphone photography amateurs as well. But those people love their smartphones, compacts should be able to offer those “liberties” as well. One thing for sure, some consumers will realize they need specialized devices dedicated to photography (Digital cameras) if they want to do photography beyond what their smartphones can offer them.
Hi Ted! What are your thoughts on the Pixel’s night sight mode as compared to the low light performance of 1 inch sensor point and shoots? Do you think the low light abilities of computational photography eclipses the abilities of 1 inch sensors? I ask because I use an iPhone XS and a Canon 5d and am now looking for that middle ground camera that I can use at places like dimly lit dinner parties where a 5d would be out of place but the XS ‘ image quality falls short. I’ve been a long time follower and would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
In my experience (Pixel 2 XL), the Pixel handles dim light better hand-held as it shoots and stacks many underexposed but higher shutter speed shots. The automatic color and DR processing is superior to an ILC (M43 in my case). But the graininess starts collapsing at higher ISOs on the phone earlier. So it's a bit of a mixed bag. With a slow exposure on a tripod, the ILC is better. For a quick hand-held snap, the phone is clearly better.
Like every year New Cellphone's ur released with new better Cameras, they Also, sometimes get upgrades with there. Megapixels or better quality in the camera for night shots & 📹 video recording... Every year, companies like apple or Samsung put out new phones with different kinds of colors, sometimes newer ones. They Also update the software and the Ram sometimes. But mostly the CPU in GPU get a little bit of a bump, but it's not like back. When the first iPhone came out and we saw big changes every year. Now they're running on a new things to add to their phones. For example, all they do is upgrade or change a little bit of the camera every year like iphone
Yeah I totally agree with all of this and do it all myself as well. Also the XS Max. It's astounding what they've developed to get so much out of such a small lens and sensor.
problem I run into with my iphone xr is it feels awful in my hand compared to a camera and it takes a second to turn on which not all cameras (say film) will. I miss shots because of my phone so I prefer to have a camera
No. No one in their right mind would spend in excess of $500 for a phone that can take pictures when you can buy a half decent DSLR. I want the image the way I see it, not a phone algorithm. Phone photos are nothing more than snapshots. My opinion.
The one thing the unfortunate and underwhelming Light camera showed us was what was “potentially” possible with multiple cameras and sensors with different focal lengths.. but you need a very powerful processor and sophisticated algorithms to make that concept work.. what we haven’t seen is a Pro mirrorless manufacturer launch a “smart” mirrorless camera that has the smarts of the iPhone or google pixel.. Probably only Sony has the technical chops but their UI developers are all sadists..
On thing I've been curious on is why other places dont use cameras that are in phones as their quality is so amazing? does it take so much processing power? can find anyone putting an iphone x camera on the drone for example
I am frustrated with Samsung note 8 dual camera, with does not allow choose between two lenses in pro mode. overall it has great camera app and for daytime pictures it handles well
The software war has already arrived into ILC's. Hence the multi shot modes on the Olympus and Panasonic camera's. Soon every ILC will have it and improve on it rapidly.
You can do anything with software. But the same cannot be said for hardware. Perhaps all this computational photography could easily be made redundant by a larger sensor. But then you can't fit an A7 in your pocket. Having said that, there is one company that I know of that shoots corporate videos with the iPhone. Obviously they know what they're doing, and they don't use the default camera app. ;-) At least two feature films have been shot on the iPhone, one of them by Sean Baker and the other by Steven Soderbergh. Would I have done the same? Maybe not, but maybe you might want to. BTW at least one Sony NEX camera, several years old now, had a night mode feature, where it would raise the ISO, take a burst of frames, then align them and fuse them together. It was simple but it did work. I don't think it even needed OIS but I don't remember.
the percentage of photographers or people care about photography in the phone market is SO incredibly small, no manufacturer is going to care to cater for us. even people who think they know photography don't care. so i never think my phone is a proper camera. i never believe any marketing that says their phone has a great camera, cause no phone has. i don't mind carrying my camera when i go somewhere where i want decent photos. anyone who tells you their phone is a good camera isn't worth discussing photography with.
I want to know how much does a picture of real quality from a smartphone can give you aesthetically and economically beneficial than a picture of quality from a camera which also does computational imagery with much more precision and give you a satisfaction that I believe a smartphone of a tiny size sensor and camera can bring about. Do you feel otherwise? I don't think. Yes, it's true that smartphones are great for instant photography and if you wish to spend money they are gone a long way towards producing stellar images nowadays but there's a huge difference.
I would love to see computational imaging, if done well, in the M43 system. Panasonic post focus is sort of heading in that direction. BTW pixel 3a has the same lens as the pixel 3.
OMD has a ton of computational imaging capabilities. Live ND, High res shots where the camera takes 8 images and stacks them All together to create a higher res file. Also, have a play with live composite, it’s a fantastic use of computational imagery.
Here’s what I never understand. Is it a camera with a phone attached or a phone with a camera attached. As we ask our phones to really be a camera. Shouldn’t we demand camera companies to make tiny cameras without a phone or texting etc.... and have a app that links it to your phone.
Phone manufacturers have found a way to deep in you pocket by producing none replaceable battery phones with all service issues down the road. If a reported new law in Europe takes shape, they could make a serious comeback. A Dutch financial newspaper reports the European Union (EU) wants to establish a new regulation that would “force electronics manufacturers to facilitate easier battery replacements. Frankly, this is the main reason I reluctant to buy a new phone. Would you please comment on this issue and review cameras with multi lenses and replicable batteries? Thanks in advance.
I do not have too much time to go shooting, so my IPhone X’s camera ends up being my best friend. That said, it’s frustrating when I’m trying to take an image and I simply can’t because it’s too much for the phone or when I take an image and there’s noise everywhere
yeah, and that eventual 'smart' camera with computational algorithms?>> I want it to talk to me with a sweet female voice, and take verbal instructions. give the camera a name, like , i dunno, fast focus Faith. Faith, need f2.8, 40mm, 150th sec....Execute! done. a talking camera!!!! Are you listening Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Canon, etc. ???
Thats an interesting measure because it doesn't really transfer over image quality, I upgraded my camera two years ago but the megapixels didn't change, but my new camera is much better, it mostly depends on the quality of the image sensor and the lens with how well it is able to capture that light no matter how many pixels it can transfer that light onto.
good pls Camera phone engineer, i challenge you to make high quality 24-200m or 24-600m len built in with less compromises when that evolution come, i will give up my bulky RX10 and make a switch to your phone
My gripe about smartphones is that the built in camera app (the one that actually works with all the features of the phone) is too watered down. Newer smartphones have less and less options, everything is set up for "normies". Used to have a Huawei P10 plus, and the camera app had more options than the P30 Pro. Also fokeh, because blurring the background and not the foreground is how "real cameras" work.
When I want more control over the settings on my LG V30, I use the Open Camera app. It enables use of Camera2 API (manual modes for exposure, focus, WB, and RAW) IF supported by your device. It's the most full featured camera app I've found. If you like timelapse, Lapse It Pro is pretty good.
Yes you could go out and purchase a new Google phone or a Samsung phone.... Or you could simply download the Halide camera app or their associated Spectre Cam for much less than a new phone.
Still every camera app so far sucks because I doesn't have a working auto mode where I decide on the slowest shutter speed, mostly 1/20 is useless for me, and a phone camera should be point and shoot ready, but I always have to think about the light and adjust a fitting shutter speed. Even worse with multi camera phones, If I set a shutter of 1/250 for the telecamera on the P30 Pro (that does DNG on all 3 cameras btw) to get steady shots and freeze motion, then I switch back to the main camera, that takes in much more light, so my 1/250 would overexpose, so I would have to set it back to auto, loosing valuable time.
The best camera phones shoot many underexposed shots in dim light, so the shutter speed is fairly fast. They then align and stack them. And even omit moving objects or choose only one of the moving objects in the stack. It's quite amazing and more than an ILC at a slower shutter speed can do. I can shoot hand-held shots in dim light with my Pixel 2XL that would be blurry hand-held on my ILC.
@@webdaddy I shoot raw, so that stuff doesn't apply, and it still sucks for shooting people in action. And no the phone is not stacking stuff, I'm not talking about night conditions but maybe a cloudy sky or a room where the phone implies I'm shooting still life and thinks 1/20 is a good solution.
You refer to people using camera phones "enthusiasts" I'd call them an average person. Enthusiasts are enthusiastic about photography so they shoot with a camera. Sure people are enthusiastic about shooting pictures with their phone, but that's different I they were true enthusiasts then you can hand them a camera and they'd be just as enthusiastic about using it.
As soon as they figure out the small sensor/lens problem and are able to provide the phone user with more control/options with shooting it’s game on....it’s really only a matter of time now - I’m not saying smartphones will replace the traditional camera, as they won’t, but it’s definitely going to have a huge impact on photography.
I apologize in advance for a politically motivated post. Google has great tech. Unfortunately (at least for me) it also hires bunch of activists that take upon themselves the derision what I should like, what I should think and what I should believe. And even if I agree with some of it today, there is no guarantee I will continue on the same thought tomorrow. Having that type of people in charge of that type of technology is scary enough (at least for me) to stay away from Google products. I realize that it might not be entirely possible given Google penetration into the world (look at me watching RUclips videos). But still. I'd be very cautious having Google phone on me all the time.
What do you think what is the real reason why Google decided to shutdown Huawei? If you have Leica Summilux 16-135mm f/1.6-f/3.4 on your phone you know that you are already way better than Pixel will ever be. Cmon you should try the real thing, those 3 phone cameras that you've been tested are a bad joke in compare to P30 Pro. As example you can shoot Milky way handheld with P30 Pro and get properly exposed picture with no noise no blur and good sharpness. Try to do that with Pixel.
I've been waiting for cameras to basically be run by phone operating systems for a few years now ... It's like the tilt screen -- Why do they go on the cheapest cameras first? I'd much rather the articulating screens be on my pro cameras. Camera companies better embrace it now, or they're going to be sorry whenever a phone company decides to make large sensors and team up with a lens maker for something 35mm or above.
Alfred Stieglitz on pictorial photography, "Let me here call attention to one of the most universally popular mistakes that have to do with photography - that of classing supposedly excellent work as professional, and using the term amateur to convey the idea of immature productions and to excuse atrociously poor photographs. As a matter of fact nearly all the greatest work is being, and has always been done, by those who are following photography for the love of it, and not merely for financial reasons."
I write this quote in relation to your use of the term "enthusiast." I refer to myself to as a "photography enthusiast" because I do not take pictures for the money. Is your meaning of enthusiast referring to any photographer who is not a professional photographer?
I always laugh at that people who post their pictures as "unedited" or "no filter" on Instagram but at the end your phone already edited your pictures for you without even asking
That's because 90% of the people are clueless when it comes to the tech.
Your ILC does interpretation as well. Even RAWs are often corrected for lens distortions, etc.
IPhone did this by hardware for a long time. They said that theyr camera was better.
I really appreciate your effort to look into how computational photography is presently advancing image making. One thing to add perhaps is that the very same computational imaging practice has been getting into the MILC segment for sure, with great results - and it is just the beginning. So I guess while smartphones are really coming up to speed and utilize this technology as much as they can, camera companies like Olympus, for an obvious instance, are heavily investing in applying computational imaging to enhance traditional camera making and to bring it to the next level. And yes, it is definitely not about formats or whatever :P Great video, great project.
Ted heres an idea - take a typical family photo portrait on each of your phones
Using their auto AI systems and print it say 8x10 (Adarama).
See which produces a pleasing result?
Ted, can you test and discuss removable smartphone lens? Clip on and phone case attachments create a slightly deeper dive into the possibilities of smartphone photography.
"It's not a question of the format" - Shows a picture of Jared Polin.
hahahaha frooooooo knowwwwwwwwssssss phhhhhhhoooooooottttttooooooooo'ssssssssssssss.
That's a good joke from Ted :v
Although I am a Computer Scientist myself (or maybe just because of that), my reaction towards computational imaging is that I am thinking of switching back to analog. I will probably not really do that, but somehow I lose the joy of photography and feel more disconnected from my photos and my subjects when using smartphones and in fact even when using an EVF. Post-processing on the other hand in some way feels different to me. But then again, this is just me; and I might have a different view in a couple of years - when it comes to photography it seems, I am a late adopter: Having started to take photos in 1980, I only made the switch to autofocus in 1999 and to digital in 2008, so maybe I will be ready for EVF in 2025 (though I already use one occasionally) and computational imaging in 2030 (though I use my smartphone and tablet frequently and sometimes even for photography).
Dont get me wrong.... i understand where you coming from but what i love about the phones camera is that i have it always with me. I own a DSLR also with a couple of nice lensen and of course its no match but the best camera is the one that you have with you in the time of need and this is what made me love the phones camera.
@@TheChameleon2008 You are absolutely right, of course. I am just speaking for myself and about my feelings towards this "new-fashioned stuff" as my grandaunt would have called it. I don't want to pretend that this is rational or that anybody else should feel this way; it is just that I don't enjoy this way of photography. I will use my smartphone if I don't have anything else available, of course. However, if I plan to take photos - be it on a trip to a city, a day hike or a multi-day hike in nature, I would always take my DSLR along - so whenever I plan to take photos, the camera I have with me is in fact my DSLR.
I just returned from a three-day city trip taking architectural and industrial photos with my DSLM because I wanted to see for myself if I would enjoy the experience (with a light-weight and less bulky equipment to carry around all day). It was ok, but next time I would use my DSLR again. I also had my smartphone with me all the time and didn't take a single photo with it; I might have for some Instagram shots, but I just didn't.
@@haraldselke yea i know but sometimes you have to embrace the awesome new tech even if it might seem complicated because i think phone camera have come a long way and with features like night mode, time lapse etc make it so different then my Nikon DSLR. Both are awesome to have in the arsenal and do their specific job :)
@@TheChameleon2008 The reason for me not enjoying this type of photography is not that these things are complicated. Most of the time they are not. However, much comes down to what you want to achieve. For me, night mode, time lapse etc. are nothing I worry about. My subjects are landscape, cityscape and architecture (plus portraits occasionally). Of course, for you things might be completely different. What I am trying to say is basically that for me (and maybe just for me) computational imaging is quite exactly the opposite of what I love about photography.
It could be interesting if you could make a video on the Nokia 9 Pureview. That phone can shoot RAW MONOCHROME DNGs (mini Leica?)! It uses 3 monochrome and 2 RGB lenses with the same focal length. It then also uses algorithms to stitch the pictures together to create the best possible image.
do you have nokia 9 pureview and if you have hows the camera and what about everyone saying about the processor used in it
Anything looks good on a phone sized screen
Completely agree, just started printing images and can say even A4 sized images are noticeable to be better than phones. Especially the sharpness
I have been fascinated with the images you have been posting on your Instagram page. This video confirmed many of these (perhaps all) have been coming from the Pixel 3. Good on those folks at Google!
I’m checking out this video in 2021 and I hope you’re low light problems on iPhones have been somewhat resolved.
My biggest issue with smart phones is they are hard for me to handle. I worry about dropping it when taking a photo. The shutter button is not in a convenient place (I know it can be moved), so the ergonomics keep me from using it very often. Yes it is handy when I don't have a camera with me. In some cases it is quicker and easier to use the phone than my camera.
As I rarely use my phone for phone calls I've begun to think of it as a point and shoot camera. One big advantage of course is I can post shots to email or facebook easily from the Galaxy S9+.
I use a real camera for 98% of my shots, even though I have the phone with me almost 100% of the time.
What’s really interesting is when computational photo will start to make something new, because for now computational photography is just trying to replicate what bigger cameras can do bigger hardware. We will see!
yesss, i love the pixel line of phones. Excellent software, and camera.
but shit battery life.
I don't have any issue with smartphones as photography tools, though I think physical limitations will always mean dedicated cameras will have a place. Of course larger sensors and lenses, but also ergonomics that only a dedicated camera can provide. That said, I often use my cheap smartphone for photography when that's the only thing I decided to bring on an outing (phone cameras are good composition practice tools...). They are tools with positives and negatives like everything else. My smartphone isn't recent enough to offer much in the way of computational photography, but I can see those features being good or bad depending on the situation.
I was very surprised when I got my a6000 recently to see that the scene and intelligent modes have automatic image stacking from it's 11 frames a second shutter. It can do ISO stacking for better low light, and also to reduce camera shake at long focal lengths. These features despite it being almost 6 years old!
With the ability to add applications, there is great potential to combine the advantages of manual control and computational imaging on a large(r) sensor. I know there are applications for astro-photography.
The more I hear about multiple sensors, processing, presets, computational imaging, and so on, the happier I am shooting film :-)
I'll never replace my real cameras for a convenience device never.
Pros won't show up to shoot a wedding with a smartphone, but everybody else will....
it wont be long before those pro's are gone :)
pros dont shoot weddings.
@@manuel_cojocaru the blast em
Starts at 3:00, great video btw
FYI there are a few videos here on YT which show the rotating lenses of SP cameras via coils and magnets. Sooo, there are moving parts in SP cameras...
As Always, one of the most informational and best damn reviews! A BIG THANK YOU! for all of your time and effort, sir!
Great video Ted Forbes and with a lot of info! I think I may have said it before, Phone Cameras compared to the Film Point & Shoot have taken huge leaps and for the average person is understandable that the image is good enough. However, I wonder if the next thing may be to enhance the litest and compactest of digital Point & Shoot cameras for someone like you Ted Forbes? Thanks for loving what you do and share so much with us throughout this fantastic and inspirational channel!
wait, what? You make your presets available for free? U R killing frotography11!!!
This was really full of information. Great explanation 👌😎
Hi,thanks for the video.Really interesting.
I think the really srtong point of a smartphone camera is that you always have it with you and you can edit and send the pics to a friend, Facebook, etc very quickly and with very little effort.
Concerning image quality even the most dull and boring landscape can look great or at least acceptable in a smartphone camera (unrealistic colours,too warm colour tones and oversharppened images with also too much contrast).
Besides, shooting with a smartphone near a bridge or the sea can be very stressfull because of its ergonomy.
Camera manufacturers should incorporate some smartphone camera features into their cameras to balance some of their disadvantages.
Really appreciate when the professional review about smartphone photography... Hope we can see more video from you sir about this. Thank you very much for your sharing this knowledge...
Curious about audio quality: good or bad with regard to the phones you showcased here. Particularly the Google. Thanks!
Computational Photography is the future of photography and smart phones are leading the way with this technology. I believe that JPEG will eventually be replaced by better video codecs, like JPEG2000, which supports lossy or lossless compression. Also, since smart phones are networked devices, I can also see smartphones supporting synthetic aperture photography. So, I believe it is an exciting future for photographers.
Dude please can you cover the hype of the USB camera from old phone stuff? There's so many people making fake videos and I even thought it was real at first. It would be awesome if you could explain how the camera works and communicates with your phone to take pictures. Thanks
Are you going to review the Nokia 9 pureview? Swedish photographer Mattias Burling just did a video about his and he loves the monochrome DNG raw files.
I'm curious too. The thumbnail caught my eye, but there was only one passing mention of it.
Thank you for this, I've searched for his video and I'll watch it in a bit. Great share 👍
Tips on how to take better photos with a phone.
i hope a phone company comes out with a stand alone camera. 3-5 primes built in, a proper grip, evf, hot shoe or built in bounce flash, mic input, full manual. i think google is kinda doing this idea with the pixel 4 and some attachment for the phone. but i think a stand alone camera thats totally outside the box compared to the typical camera could be pretty amazing.
nah, because then its something you have to carry with you all the time. I rather have some kind of addon for the phone so that new features can be added and 3party development.
yeah, im sure there is a good reason ill never see it. i know im in the minority on wanting a camera like that.
It's amazing how far phones have come. I just.... Don't like shooting with them.
But honestly ill stick to iOS because Android doesnt have Hipstamatic. Hipstamatic is AWEEEESOMEEEEE
Great video! My question is how do the smaetphone photos hold up with printing, in light of the algorithms etc?
You really should try lg v series phones.
I can shoot raw with my main and wide angle camera on my v20. Yes, it is only available in the pro mode like the samsung but at least it can shoot raw no matter which lens it is shooting from. Imagine what the newer v series can do with their cameras... Oh, and also lg has a really great video mode
Very interesting. I own a Pixel 3. How much of the smart phone tech will find it's way into full size cameras ? I have a Panasonic Fz 2500 bridge camera which I'm quite happy with. I'm 3 years into learning photography - have joined a small camera group of folks - and find the Fz 2500 to be a great tool for learning. In it's Scene Mode it has a Hand Held Night Shot setting that takes 5 exposures, increasing the ISO & shutter speed & then combines them into one composite image. These shots are so good - nice detail, well saturated, better quality than some single exposure shots - that I've begun using it for day time shooting. I think by using this feature that I'm able - to a degree - to get around the fact that I only have a 1 in. sensor. Thanks for doing this presentation.
Finally you are trying out camera phones too. Great to know. :) and useful knowledge shared in the video.
Computerized imaging will be moved onto micro four thirds cameras to give them better low light, better bookeh, and more resolution
For photography enthusiasts a phone is definitely not enough. I think what you meant to say is for casual photography a phone is enough.
Massive lack of control is the reason why I don't shoot on a phone.
Thanks for this review, this video...
Simple:
In term of photography Smartphones can't replace specialized devices built to take photographs: Digital Cameras.
The fact smartphones companies are adding 3,5,... cameras in a cellphone to try to match digital cameras features and optics is a clear proof there are some limitations.
Smartphones offer some liberties and accessibility but I don't think we are ready to have 50 cameras in one cellphones... At the end of the day, the quality of photographs is questionable when your really dig. The 108MP of the S20 will not be a digital cameras killer. People who tested this smartphone do not recommend it.... just 12MP...
But cameras companies should learn from this era of quick photography and selfie-graphy : Shoot + Edit in camera with filters + share as fast as possible on social medias "for quick likes and views" ... who care about quality, details and composition, or even a story of your photograph?
General consumer don't care about the monument, a cathedral in Havana, behind them when taking a selfie. Real photographers do. A real photographer needs to be able to provide a story, facts and location of the main cathedral in Havana he shot during trip.
Camera companies need to review their line of products to adapt themselves to the new reality, ...
Stop putting too much of cameras, or too much of variations on one product on the market.
For compact cameras...
1.- Line of products:
Why a G7X III and a G5XII?
One with a viewfinder, the other one ... not.
Keep one with all relevant features and discontinue the other one.
The goal of a compact is to offer all in one body.
2.- Sensor size:
Probably it is time to drop the 1/2.3”, unless you are Nikon with the very specialized bridges: #P950, #P1000, means you are stuck with: Sensor Size, Optics and massive focal range vs reasonable body size.
I had a lot of fun with my old 1/2.3” canon bridge, I did photography stuffs I could not do my Samsung Galaxy.
The minimum of sensor size for compact should be 1”.
1” sensor should shut down the false debate: Smartphones are better than Compact cameras.
2.- Minimum of features:
Cameras companies should learn from this smartphone trend as well in term of accessibility, liberties. Like all digital camera, especially compact should have a touchscreen.
Why the last P950 don’t have touchscreen?
All compact should have a minimum of features to make them relevant today.
You have a lot in one body plus the optics, somewhere smartphones can’t go.
Some compacts (point and shoot, advanced compact- sensor >= 1”) could miss one or two options (hot shoe,…) or have less Focal length range.
The purpose of a Bridge camera is to really offer DSLR and Mirrorless features in a body with fixed lens.
If I have to buy a bridge… I will expect to have a crazy hybrid camera giving me a bunch of features for stills and videos.
Touchscreen (articulated or tilting, but a real touchscreen for focusing, menu), hot shoe, Flash,
24/25 400/500/600 of FL (a bit of wide and a bit of telephoto), EVF,
Focus Peaking/Stacking/Bracketing - Post Focus, JPG and RAW, 4K video, 4K photo / Raw Burst mode, Headphones and Mic jacks, Card slot on the side, Mode + Comp + Drive dials,
Switch Video/Photo to features set separately,
No more 1/2.3” but a 1” with 20 MP,… App for edit photo in cameras, Wi-fi, Bluetooth,…
Photography is more than selfie-graphy.
Camera companies should offer products that could attract smartphone photography amateurs as well.
But those people love their smartphones, compacts should be able to offer those “liberties” as well.
One thing for sure, some consumers will realize they need specialized devices dedicated to photography (Digital cameras) if they want to do photography beyond what their smartphones can offer them.
Wow a full on essay!😂 Saved for later reading!🙌🏼
I'd enjoy seeing you tackle the Nokia Lumia 1020.
Pls check out the Moment Lenses in this mobile Photography series.
Hi Ted!
What are your thoughts on the Pixel’s night sight mode as compared to the low light performance of 1 inch sensor point and shoots? Do you think the low light abilities of computational photography eclipses the abilities of 1 inch sensors?
I ask because I use an iPhone XS and a Canon 5d and am now looking for that middle ground camera that I can use at places like dimly lit dinner parties where a 5d would be out of place but the XS ‘ image quality falls short.
I’ve been a long time follower and would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
In my experience (Pixel 2 XL), the Pixel handles dim light better hand-held as it shoots and stacks many underexposed but higher shutter speed shots. The automatic color and DR processing is superior to an ILC (M43 in my case). But the graininess starts collapsing at higher ISOs on the phone earlier. So it's a bit of a mixed bag. With a slow exposure on a tripod, the ILC is better. For a quick hand-held snap, the phone is clearly better.
@@webdaddy Thanks for the input. I was thinking it would be kind of a toss-up between the two.
Americans are missing out on the Huawei P30+ biiiig time. Absolutely amazing camera
Like every year New Cellphone's ur released with new better Cameras, they Also, sometimes get upgrades with there. Megapixels or better quality in the camera for night shots & 📹 video recording... Every year, companies like apple or Samsung put out new phones with different kinds of colors, sometimes newer ones. They Also update the software and the Ram sometimes. But mostly the CPU in GPU get a little bit of a bump, but it's not like back. When the first iPhone came out and we saw big changes every year. Now they're running on a new things to add to their phones. For example, all they do is upgrade or change a little bit of the camera every year like iphone
Yeah I totally agree with all of this and do it all myself as well. Also the XS Max. It's astounding what they've developed to get so much out of such a small lens and sensor.
problem I run into with my iphone xr is it feels awful in my hand compared to a camera and it takes a second to turn on which not all cameras (say film) will. I miss shots because of my phone so I prefer to have a camera
How do they focus at different distances with no moving parts?
Moment lens photo & video. You vlog to see the outcome. Your perspective interest me a lot.
No. No one in their right mind would spend in excess of $500 for a phone that can take pictures when you can buy a half decent DSLR. I want the image the way I see it, not a phone algorithm. Phone photos are nothing more than snapshots. My opinion.
Pixel 3a, $399
In fact, smartphone is the future - not mirrorless cameras.
The one thing the unfortunate and underwhelming Light camera showed us was what was “potentially” possible with multiple cameras and sensors with different focal lengths.. but you need a very powerful processor and sophisticated algorithms to make that concept work.. what we haven’t seen is a Pro mirrorless manufacturer launch a “smart” mirrorless camera that has the smarts of the iPhone or google pixel.. Probably only Sony has the technical chops but their UI developers are all sadists..
On thing I've been curious on is why other places dont use cameras that are in phones as their quality is so amazing? does it take so much processing power? can find anyone putting an iphone x camera on the drone for example
Computational imaging is still very nascent .
Is there a cell phone that has loop recording?
8:48
Hey buddy don't look back.
There is that guy from Google watching you from behind ( on your left )
😮
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Hey
don't look back 😞
Night Site is like a Smart HDR
I have a Huawei p30 but I have to say I think my p10 plus that I had before has a better camera setup. I am a Nikon user for my main photos.
I would absolutely love to get your take on add on lenses they have become very popular.
I am frustrated with Samsung note 8 dual camera, with does not allow choose between two lenses in pro mode.
overall it has great camera app and for daytime pictures it handles well
Have you heard of time folded optics?
The software war has already arrived into ILC's. Hence the multi shot modes on the Olympus and Panasonic camera's. Soon every ILC will have it and improve on it rapidly.
You can do anything with software. But the same cannot be said for hardware. Perhaps all this computational photography could easily be made redundant by a larger sensor. But then you can't fit an A7 in your pocket.
Having said that, there is one company that I know of that shoots corporate videos with the iPhone. Obviously they know what they're doing, and they don't use the default camera app. ;-)
At least two feature films have been shot on the iPhone, one of them by Sean Baker and the other by Steven Soderbergh. Would I have done the same? Maybe not, but maybe you might want to.
BTW at least one Sony NEX camera, several years old now, had a night mode feature, where it would raise the ISO, take a burst of frames, then align them and fuse them together. It was simple but it did work. I don't think it even needed OIS but I don't remember.
iPhone 11 pro is next level camera
the percentage of photographers or people care about photography in the phone market is SO incredibly small, no manufacturer is going to care to cater for us. even people who think they know photography don't care. so i never think my phone is a proper camera. i never believe any marketing that says their phone has a great camera, cause no phone has. i don't mind carrying my camera when i go somewhere where i want decent photos. anyone who tells you their phone is a good camera isn't worth discussing photography with.
No moving parts? Almost every smartphone camera on the market has a moving lens for focus adjustment.
I want to know how much does a picture of real quality from a smartphone can give you aesthetically and economically beneficial than a picture of quality from a camera which also does computational imagery with much more precision and give you a satisfaction that I believe a smartphone of a tiny size sensor and camera can bring about. Do you feel otherwise? I don't think.
Yes, it's true that smartphones are great for instant photography and if you wish to spend money they are gone a long way towards producing stellar images nowadays but there's a huge difference.
For the whole video I waited for that black scary figure in the back to move, to let me jump to the ceiling... Am I the only one to notice it?
you realize the s10+ also has night mode on it, and it's a lot better than Google's, right?... XD
Nice
I would love to see computational imaging, if done well, in the M43 system. Panasonic post focus is sort of heading in that direction. BTW pixel 3a has the same lens as the pixel 3.
OMD has a ton of computational imaging capabilities. Live ND, High res shots where the camera takes 8 images and stacks them
All together to create a higher res file.
Also, have a play with live composite, it’s a fantastic use of computational imagery.
Oh and the other thing google did - they bought Lytro.
There is the Leica camera on Huawei phones
Here’s what I never understand. Is it a camera with a phone attached or a phone with a camera attached. As we ask our phones to really be a camera. Shouldn’t we demand camera companies to make tiny cameras without a phone or texting etc.... and have a app that links it to your phone.
Phone manufacturers have found a way to deep in you pocket by producing none replaceable battery phones with all service issues down the road. If a reported new law in Europe takes shape, they could make a serious comeback. A Dutch financial newspaper reports the European Union (EU) wants to establish a new regulation that would “force electronics manufacturers to facilitate easier battery replacements. Frankly, this is the main reason I reluctant to buy a new phone. Would you please comment on this issue and review cameras with multi lenses and replicable batteries? Thanks in advance.
I do not have too much time to go shooting, so my IPhone X’s camera ends up being my best friend. That said, it’s frustrating when I’m trying to take an image and I simply can’t because it’s too much for the phone or when I take an image and there’s noise everywhere
There is a photo group on Facebook specifically for mobile photography. 13MegaPixels!
Yeah I'm kind of trying to figure out whether or not to buy $1,000 phone or $25,000 camera I'm on the fence
yeah, and that eventual 'smart' camera with computational algorithms?>> I want it to talk to me with a sweet female voice, and take verbal instructions. give the camera a name, like , i dunno, fast focus Faith. Faith, need f2.8, 40mm, 150th sec....Execute! done. a talking camera!!!! Are you listening Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Canon, etc. ???
Nokia 9 takes a 34mb RAW image from each image
Thats an interesting measure because it doesn't really transfer over image quality, I upgraded my camera two years ago but the megapixels didn't change, but my new camera is much better, it mostly depends on the quality of the image sensor and the lens with how well it is able to capture that light no matter how many pixels it can transfer that light onto.
good
pls Camera phone engineer, i challenge you to make high quality 24-200m or 24-600m len built in with less compromises
when that evolution come, i will give up my bulky RX10 and make a switch to your phone
My gripe about smartphones is that the built in camera app (the one that actually works with all the features of the phone) is too watered down. Newer smartphones have less and less options, everything is set up for "normies". Used to have a Huawei P10 plus, and the camera app had more options than the P30 Pro.
Also fokeh, because blurring the background and not the foreground is how "real cameras" work.
When I want more control over the settings on my LG V30, I use the Open Camera app. It enables use of Camera2 API (manual modes for exposure, focus, WB, and RAW) IF supported by your device. It's the most full featured camera app I've found.
If you like timelapse, Lapse It Pro is pretty good.
Who ever makes the world first smart interchangeable lens mirrorless camera will win.
Huawei p30 pro
LostinNepal cant change lens.
Yes you could go out and purchase a new Google phone or a Samsung phone....
Or you could simply download the Halide camera app or their associated Spectre Cam for much less than a new phone.
Still every camera app so far sucks because I doesn't have a working auto mode where I decide on the slowest shutter speed, mostly 1/20 is useless for me, and a phone camera should be point and shoot ready, but I always have to think about the light and adjust a fitting shutter speed.
Even worse with multi camera phones, If I set a shutter of 1/250 for the telecamera on the P30 Pro (that does DNG on all 3 cameras btw) to get steady shots and freeze motion, then I switch back to the main camera, that takes in much more light, so my 1/250 would overexpose, so I would have to set it back to auto, loosing valuable time.
The best camera phones shoot many underexposed shots in dim light, so the shutter speed is fairly fast. They then align and stack them. And even omit moving objects or choose only one of the moving objects in the stack. It's quite amazing and more than an ILC at a slower shutter speed can do. I can shoot hand-held shots in dim light with my Pixel 2XL that would be blurry hand-held on my ILC.
@@webdaddy I shoot raw, so that stuff doesn't apply, and it still sucks for shooting people in action. And no the phone is not stacking stuff, I'm not talking about night conditions but maybe a cloudy sky or a room where the phone implies I'm shooting still life and thinks 1/20 is a good solution.
You refer to people using camera phones "enthusiasts" I'd call them an average person. Enthusiasts are enthusiastic about photography so they shoot with a camera. Sure people are enthusiastic about shooting pictures with their phone, but that's different I they were true enthusiasts then you can hand them a camera and they'd be just as enthusiastic about using it.
The s10 is the Best Boyz
As soon as they figure out the small sensor/lens problem and are able to provide the phone user with more control/options with shooting it’s game on....it’s really only a matter of time now - I’m not saying smartphones will replace the traditional camera, as they won’t, but it’s definitely going to have a huge impact on photography.
Super 8! :)
Where is my "DEPER PIXELS"?!?!?
Andres Rojas 😂😂😂😂
Google has the best camera software
Google pixel 4 will have different lenses 😍😍 with same software
I can't wait
I apologize in advance for a politically motivated post. Google has great tech. Unfortunately (at least for me) it also hires bunch of activists that take upon themselves the derision what I should like, what I should think and what I should believe. And even if I agree with some of it today, there is no guarantee I will continue on the same thought tomorrow. Having that type of people in charge of that type of technology is scary enough (at least for me) to stay away from Google products. I realize that it might not be entirely possible given Google penetration into the world (look at me watching RUclips videos). But still. I'd be very cautious having Google phone on me all the time.
The most important thing I learned, like the idiot I am, is that I had a "pro" camera app in my iPhone all along in Lightroom CC! Dammit! XD
You should get the p30 pro
What do you think what is the real reason why Google decided to shutdown Huawei? If you have Leica Summilux 16-135mm f/1.6-f/3.4 on your phone you know that you are already way better than Pixel will ever be. Cmon you should try the real thing, those 3 phone cameras that you've been tested are a bad joke in compare to P30 Pro. As example you can shoot Milky way handheld with P30 Pro and get properly exposed picture with no noise no blur and good sharpness. Try to do that with Pixel.
I've been waiting for cameras to basically be run by phone operating systems for a few years now ... It's like the tilt screen -- Why do they go on the cheapest cameras first? I'd much rather the articulating screens be on my pro cameras. Camera companies better embrace it now, or they're going to be sorry whenever a phone company decides to make large sensors and team up with a lens maker for something 35mm or above.
I hate over sharpening
no check out better pixel village he is just a legend
Theree's a reported stablisation problem with the Pixel 3....
Doesn't affect too many of the phones though.
It will when Microsoft send out the force update! >:-(