As someone with slightly impaired hearing, I do like that there's now an incentive for volunteer subtitling, but also people use this to put "joke subtitles," subtitles that don't match the video but are accepted because they're funny, or subtitles that are mostly correct but have the occasional joke slapped in in parenthesis. For someone with limited hearing, these are very confusing and frustrating, going against the whole point of there being subtitles in the first place.
Lilith Hedwig personally I get very very confused because it’s often clear that the CC are incorrect but I have no idea what they are actually saying. I don’t turn on subtitles as a joke, I use them for information, and having purposefully wrong content is really frustrating. Compromising the integrity of subtitles is really hurtful.
@@lilithhedwig5408 Sorry, for the late reply, it's a mixture of both but mostly the second. I miss what was actually said in the cases the joke replaces the dialogue, or when its in addition to, I miss what was said because I have to try and figure out what's being said and what's a bad sub before the sub goes away
Thank you all for the responses! I'm an hearing person who's not a native English speaker, so I always turn on subtitles when they are present to better understand everything that's being said (clarifying just for context), but I've never made my own subs for a video. What would you all think if there potentially were two English subs options, mainly in videos that already have the "joke" subs? One where it's specified that it's strictly speech-to-text subs and one where it's specified that there might be some jokes or additional infos* slapped in there? Would that be seen as offensive in your opinion? I mean if someone has done mostly correct subs with jokes it wouldn't be much of a trouble taking them out I think. *I'm thinking for example the videos of Philosophytube have extra info or commentary slapped in [like this] or at the end of the videos and I think that's interesting. Also, how do you feel about corrections in subs? Like I've seen in some videos where the creator corrects the occasional word or two so it doesn't perfectly match the video but it's better in their opinion. I'm sorry if I asked too much, obviously feel free to ignore me!
Captioning has a much greater value for Google:than just a complimentary service. 1 - The captions can be indexed by the search engine.. 2- The human contributed captions can be used to train their speech recognition AI.
I don't disagree but I still think the greed aspect is minimal enough it not be the biggest concern (after all most feature length movies have closed captions perfectly open for RUclips to teach ai from and RUclips already sells those). You do raise good points I just see this as more of a neutral-unintentionally good act (improving accessibility to those who are hearing impaired or don't speak the creators language) than greedy one.
I'd be concerned about relying on anonymous internet users of an entertainment service to supply reliable, accurate training data. I don't know who was supposed to scrutinize the community-supplied captions, but I presume it would either have to be the creator or the community. If I was an engineer, I'd be very much opposed to trusting either of those options to be diligent about only accepting accurately matching entries, particularly if that necessity isn't communicated to them nor incentivized. In short: Letting randos contribute training data for a serious, professional project is a recipe for disaster. Garbage in, garbage out.
My thoughts exactly. That youtube help video was absolutely useless, far too easy to misinterpret. If the explanation above is correct then the system isn't as potentially damaging as what I originally thought.
Also, the YT creator community forum is not monitored by youtube nor google employees. They explained that to me themselves when a "moderator" forwarded my issue to a specific person via email at youtube. They said "the community and creator forums are designed for content creators to discuss issues among themselves, but are not officially monitored by youtube or google employees"
Not trying to spam or anything, but if you visit my channel, you will quickly see with my older videos why allowing random people to add subtitles is a REALLY BAD IDEA. I have people that I'm sure have been flagging the hell out of my channel for three years and I can only imagine what horrific captions they would add.
This was extremely informative. I appreciate your balanced approach to these topics. You're not quick to shout anyone down, and you take both points of view into consideration. Great video, Dan.
I believe you mean shill, and no, I'm not Dan. Isn't it possible for someone to like what Dan has to say and for that person to not be Dan? Get a life you loser.
Did RUclips heroes ever happen?? Edit: ohhh, RUclips Heroes didn’t work, so they just removed community subtitles altogether because “not enough people were using them.” Maybe they should’ve just maid their community subtitle feature more obvious and accessible.
It wasn't just ''not enoguh people were using them'' but it also was prone to bots submiting scam links in subtitles, which as an end result is another thing for youtube to spend resources on to moderate
@@LostSoulNaMing I suppose if it's just slur or links then RUclips could've just let the creators themselves "moderare" the submitted subtitles, buttt of course RUclips doesn't want to put effort into anything helpful.
@@ng.tr.s.p.1254 Community contributed captions always had an option for publishing to be withheld until the creator approved and published them. The problem was that you would still have to spend time reviewing the subtitles, which can be anywhere from an annoyance to impossible depending on how much content you put out. It's even worse for translated subtitles, which the creator often has no means of properly reviewing beyond entering all of it into Google Translate and skimming through it. Now that scripted content is ridiculously easy to perfectly subtitle, and automatically generated captions are better than ever, I don't totally blame RUclips for killing off an old feature that was very prone to exploitation.
Wait, lemme get this straight, cause it's so simply clear to me: if they just let people get xp for good CCs and a lot less for the other two, and you had one single bar that loaded and you got youtube premium for a month if you filled it... that would be monumental! of course, limit the thing for videos with a certain number of view or whatever, or the ones more favored by the algorithm, but that'd get all the videos subtitles super fast. Not stupid nonsensical tiers of awful... just give people youtube premium for a month... it doesn't actually cost youtube anything. Sure, it's less money made on the whole, but as the bulk of the work is done, demand and supply will stabilize, and better quality subs will be chosen, and the number of people that'll get free premium will be insignificant in youtube's ad revenue... it's... SO SIMPLE! RUclips, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
That would be great, unfortunately it would not benifit the creators who benifit from premium watchers giving them more money, but hey that's not a lot anyway and the other benefits, like the ones to the users, less ads, the ability to turn of the screen on mobile etc would be great. It could be youtube silver or something as opposed to youtube gold which would be the paid service... God I can't wait till capitalism is over and money is no longer a wall that gatekeeps people from things (like the ability to eat for God's sake)
Also, the issue with mass-flagging, is what it takes away from the content creator while it's being "Reviewed". I'm a small channel myself. But if someone went through and and mass-flagged all 800 or so videos of mine as "copyright infringement", those videos would be demonetized while being investigated. Because that has been the problem with the content-id system since inception. So, a troll flags an entire channel that makes a living off youtube, all their videos are flagged, and because of youtube's terrible content system, their channel is copyright strike'd into oblivion because YT staff couldn't possibly handle that type of task of reviewing hundreds of videos at the same time. Now, get a small group of trolls, because we know they don't work solo, and watch them power-level themselves into Tier 3, now they can take down a channel at will, with a thousand copyright flags in under a minute.
Yeah, the mass-flagging tool should be scrapped. Even though I stand by what I say in the video, that people who are looking to be malicious already have more power than they ever need, there's still no real solid upside to the tool if there's no true control over who has access to it.
The only thing I see the mass flagging good for are those spam videos that take up popular/trending search terms as titles to advertise their stuff. It's common for games that release hacks/bots and some sites that just want to advertise to people searching for popular things with a dozen same video upload with the same title. Usually happens when i do some searches by upload date.
If I understand the report function, it is not allowed for a rando to flag you for copyright. Only the copyright owner and their bots are allowed to do that. I may be wrong there.
@@1redrider100 I know this is a year-old comment, but there's a huge difference between saying "you aren't allowed to do X" and actually preventing people from doing X. Some content creators get flagged for "stealing" _their own_ intellectual property; that's the state of enforcement of this rule.
I think that'd be very expensive. But maybe like Mechanical Turk, from Amazon, and giving people some money (a couple cents per valid action) to spend on YT red or subscriptions for their favorite channels.
Bugme Not MAYBE YT could give just a couple cents to people, if even that. There are just too many people to pay everyone. And you can bet a lot of people would want to start doing this to get money. But yeah, there are some people I wouldn't mind helping out a bit, but this is the kind of "job" that should not be free. If real rewards were behind it, people would take it more seriously. But since I don't think that's viable (to pay everyone), this crowdsourcing move is stupid of them.
I'd say it veers from just being "doesn't want to" into "can't possibly". RUclips already leaks money, despite being one of the top 5 websites in the world. They just can't afford the manpower to do this.
It's kind of ironic watching this six years later with automatically generated subtitles. They're sometimes better than the CC by humans even! (Except when the language got recognized as `Vietnamese` for some obscure reason, but even that's been happening less)
I think it's pretty fair to be angry about RUclips's bullshit they just pulled. Also, it's not really a topic that requires a lot of thought to call out as bullshit.
Given the sheer volume of commenters who seem to be surprised to learn RUclips has a report button, it seems to require a lot more thought than most are willing to put into it.
As someone who tries to add close captioning to their videos, I can tell you first hand that it's a very boring and time consuming processes; even when you've working with a written scripted. I think that adding CC as a content creator is a good thing to make your content more accessible to different audiences. Even if you don't add CC in different languages, adding CC in the default language gives audience to use the translate option; though not perfect, at least it's something. I personally do it so I'm not misunderstood in my pronunciations of words.
I did a little bit of volunteer transcribing a while back for a podcast--four people talking, unscripted. And while those people were definitely trying their best not to talk over each other etc., I still gave up about an hour into the 2-hour episode because it was such a boring pain in the ass and I had no financial or social obligation to finish it. Especially for unscripted work, it's astounding how many non-word vocals and slips of the tongue people make when talking that we've learned to subconsciously ignore over the years of learning and knowing our language. Typing out every single verbal mishap is distracting for calling attention to it, bit you also can't just omit all of it or else the mismatch between audio and transcript becomes distracting instead. Transcription is hard goddamn work, and the people who do it deserve more money and more respect.
Whatever intent RUclips might have had in mind with this proposition, they failed to look at the fact that they're RUclips and everything they touch is set ablaze.
I like how you actually go out of your way to explain issues instead of just blowing them out of proportion for views and money like everyone else does
Just so you know, I made you that pixel Foldie the other day cause you're basically my fav YTer. Really love the part where you actually think it through when reacting to stuff,
You make some great points. I think the reason why content creators are mad is because they have been asking RUclips to fix the issues with video takedowns and they're going in the opposite direction. Sure, it may be a grind to access the features creators are afraid of, but the fact that anyone can do it if they really wanted to makes it worse for them, even if it doesn't change everything.
Woulnd't it be cool if you could go on quests, like banishing fascist commentators, finding rare loot along the way, such as the Sould of the Democratic party or Chuck Schumer's spine, craft special potions from the tears of Jordan Peterson or Alex Jones fanboys.
I already waste too much time fighting with mor0ns in the RUclips comments, you just gamified my second worst habit. I wish this existed while acknowledging that it's a good thing it doesn't. Great idea.
do you fear youtube is also encouraging the captioning of videos so their algorithms can much more easily pick up on whether or not a video is using 'inappropriate' language, so they can demonitize those videos?
I think Dan said something to that effect on Twitter a few days ago. If he captions his video correctly, and provides the captions to RUclips at time of upload, it's far less likely to get hit with the demonetization bot. Think about how terrible the RUclips auto-caption bot is, and now realize that it's the primary signal for the demonetization bot. Every time it mishears you and thinks you swore, you get hit with a demonetization. p.s. gamergate punks fuck off
Looking back on this 5 years later 1) It just silently died, relatively quickly 2) I don't necessarily agree with you on the captioning part. Most creators, at the very least those who don't have the resources to hire people, don't have the time to create captions. Creating captions is time consuming, and if everything you say was improvised, you don't have a script to work with. This is different from TV. Though I don't know if it's the people behind a program or the TV station itself that add subtitles, it doesn't matter much as the end result is the same: there's an institution with enough resources to add subtitles.
Um, what part did you not agree with? You basically just paraphrased what he said. It is an unsexy job that it incredibly time consuming with little to no pay-off. He literally says why no one wants to do it and why it would be difficult, even for RUclips. Besides, at what point is there enough captioning? Imagine captioning every video in english. Now imagine the amount of manhours to do that over a hundred times to account for any variation of language. Did you disagree with phrase "creators should" part? No other person is responsible for the captioning. Tell us, who SHOULD be responsible for the captioning? Mind you, "should" does not mean "have to". Because obviously random people SHOULDN'T be forced to caption videos, theyvhad nothing to do with the video. RUclips can't caption videos that aren't posted yet and the creators would obviously need to notify youtube to caption it, so we can see that creators are the key factor in that idea. No matter what way you can think of it, I have no doubt in my mind that you can only come up the same answer. Well, unless you choose to ignore the question with the worthless rebuttal "no one should" because that is a non answer that uncritically examines the situation and basically says you don't want to answer this difficult question.
it's definitely interesting to see how these things have changed over time. While they never adopted the term "RUclips Heroes" in the end, there are still 2 programs (Trusted Flaggers & Product Experts) that split up the different parts. Granted, it looks like Trusted Flaggers isn't doing very well, but the Product Expert program for RUclips is going very strong (PEs are the community help forum facing volunteers...RUclips/Google upgraded the forum from what was presented in this video, haha. Full disclosure: I am a Product Expert). And then RUclips flat out got rid of community captions entirely.
As far as subtitles/CC goes, wouldn't it make more sense to create an incentives program geared towards the CREATORS themselves for that? They would be the best people to do it, and with some sensible incentives (which creators can gain a lot more from than just users), they'd be a lot more likely to get the job done. Things like a bit more exposure, relatively speaking, for videos with CC would make sense (if that doesn't already exist). Of course, the creators rarely know many languages, so you would also need a platform, provided by RUclips, for connecting creators with translators, and they could work for free if they want or come up with a fair compensation plan, which could be anything from small monetary compensation (a lump sum or based on views/ad revenue) to a shoutout to fan merch, and so on.
Looking through the comments it's easy to see who saw the video and who didn't also it's nice to see someone who can agrue both sides of the story. Still it goes to show how poor you tube is at communication not just with content creators but also with it's whole bloody community
I vaguely remember that commercial. I'm pretty sure I just skipped it or did something else without listening to it. On another note, I've always been intimidated by the ability to report videos, since I generally walk around and do chores while listening to them on my phone and I've noticed I can accidentally press buttons I don't mean to. I'm just afraid of accidentally reporting a video and never knowing I did. Especially since most of the RUclipsrs I like either review or theorize over media.
Thanks for this overview, you seem like a knowledgeable guy. Subbed. Thanks for doing this again, it really made me and my tiny channel freak out when I read this on Kotaku...
RUclips people can't POSSIBLY check all the flagged videos if a mass flag option is given to people. They already do a horrible job at it. Now multiply the number of flagged videos by 3 or 4, or 10. That doesn't make sense. It's the same as the captions thing. Just like they can never caption every video because there are so many new ones each day, they'll NEVER catch up to the amount of flags, as they'll be way more numerous. It's definitely going to be an automatic system. At least partially. On a second note, it's not just incentivizing people, it's a call to arms. The man in the middle is literally waving a flag, for pete's sake. Even more flags appear sticking out of the "You get points when you..." graphics. It's very clear that getting everyone to start flagging is the main thing here. The "contacting YT staff directly" can't be real. If creators can't do it now ( I assume because there aren't enough people at YT to even try to do this), how can allowing potentially thousands and thousands of people to do that? Not even gonna talk about the "negative content". Volunteer work is the way to go, really. BUT you can't just allow some random people in. There has to be a very deep screening and thorough process. Currently, to apply, all you have to do is check two boxes and click a button.
I've seen a number of free labor karma-RPG moderating and other types of community systems over the years and they all seem to be absolute shit culminating in the decline of the site. What happens is that systems involving doing free QA and janitorial work in exchange for meaningless points and moderation abilities attract a certain type of person. Almost nobody will be attracted by these conditions but someone who desperately wants to feel empowered and demonstrate that power to lower status community members will love the idea. After a while, these users, being so similar of mind and having very similar self-serving purposes, become an almost unionized demographic and gain a lot of leverage over the site. They have the ear of the bill payers more than the bread and butter users and then there's the reality of their free labors contributing to the bottom line. If there's some sort of strike because the ownership tries to take back control, there's a chance this free labor leaves en masse as the only incentive they have dries up, which is a scary prospect to an entity who is suddenly faced with increased support costs. With this top-heavy administrative overhead, you end up getting a malaise over the site. It doesn't die immediately. It just becomes frozen in time. The userbase ceases to grow. Internal drama and power jockeying multiplies. Arguably this is already happening to RUclips, though we'll need a year's or more worth of data to even speculate as to whether RUclips's content policies are contributing to a new channel decline I'm implying might exist.
Where the hell did you get your concept of how this system works? You only get points if the video is confirmed by RUclips's double-check system (humans at RUclips) confirming that the video does, in fact, violate the rules. So, yeah, you're wrong in almost every way you could be wrong.
Folding Ideas I'm sure you know how it works. Anyway. If YT increases the amount of videos people can flag (and does not pay them for what is essentially a job), that will increase the number of flagged content by a lot. What happens then is that there is no way (not enough people) to check everything. If there was, there would be no need to get "volunteer work", and that job would be done by employees. Take the copyright claim system for example. The only way a human being will be involved is if you put up a counter claim. The copyright claim system is automatic (in that your stuff will be removed almost immediately, no matter if the claim has merit, you can read that on one of their pages). Then, after you issue a counter claim, a human will actually watch the video and check if you are doing something wrong. If not, you get the video back. It's *impossible* for YT staff to check every single video every single time they get a flag. There are just too many videos. Can you imagine how many flagged videos there are a day? Now multiply that by the number of flags you can do with a mass flagging tool. If you are gullible enough to think there's someone double checking every copyright claim/flag, just... wow.
The whole idea of giving this much power to people without even making sure they're going to behave as responsible moderators is a recipe for disaster. It's like taking children, fanboys and/or trolls, giving them weapons and saying "go nuts". Flag wars probably happen right now, but it seems like this can only incentivise it. Given how poorly RUclips's flagging system actually works and given how if you get 3 strikes against community guidelines your channel gets deleted, there's the danger that content creators face losing their channel because an army of kids flagged their videos. The only thing they offer that actually seems good for RUclips is incentivising people to caption videos.
And this is why people are pissed about it... it gives rewards for abusing the system. AND, you-tube can't check every video, which means some will fall though the crack and thus make a bigger problems.
129das Ya but even then, they don't have enough of a staff for that. That's already what happens... so giving points to people gives off the idea that they want to reward bad behavior.
If they retry something like this, here's what they should do: First, forget the demonetization and copyright ideas in this; if that's not your main reason for Heroes, don't bundle it with the system. Second, make a zero power, high purpose reward; if the reward allows corruption, people will hate it. Instead, make this the reward; Every line of subtitles, pays for a cent of your RUclips Red and/or RUclips TV subscription. If you write 100 lines of subtitles, you have to pay $9 dollars for your Red subscription instead of $10; and if you write 1,000 lines, you get that month of Red free. If subtitles are so important to RUclips, they need to make a REAL reason to do it, if you have to sacrifice $10-$25 per person, oh well.
Honestly, the rewards are really lame. Like... really, really lame. I put some time and effort into putting in subtitles for my favorite content creators, and I don't do it because of... whatever all that garbage is. I do it because I want to provide accommodations for hearing-impaired users. I'm sure I'm not the only person who is interested in this. I wouldn't have even known about it if the channel in question hadn't just... straight-up asked people do to it. If RUclips would just make it clear how important this is, with... oh, I don't know... an informative RUclips video? Then I'm sure more people would do it, because it's honestly not a bad way to waste a couple spare hours, and it makes you feel like you dun good, y'know? It's tedious, yes, but if EVERYBODY subtitled one, single word on the videos they watched, then every video on RUclips would be subtitled. Making people feel like even a drop in the bucket is effective, and showing us the effects that being able to accommodate other people has on their lives, is all that's needed to make this work. Anyway, great, informative video! You have some of the best content on RUclips, and it's always worth a watch!!
Thank you for making this video! It's really informative and you have a balanced view of it, which is refreshing to see because regarding this RUclips Heroes thing I have seen mostly outrage and people screaming about censorship. I appreciate the work you do :)
Nice to finally find a video that delves into the specifics. I'm actually glad to hear RUclips's not as insane as they sounded. The person who needs an ass kicking is probably who came up with their reveal video for explaining it so poorly.
The issue with level 3 is that if a channel is flagged three times, it is immediately given a strike without having to be reviewed. 9 flags could have the channel removed from RUclips instantly, especially since the mass flag feature doesn't require you to actually watch the videos you flag.
The worst thing about RUclips Heroes, really, is the waste of time it spent on it when it could've instead given the content creators the power they need to handle themselves. They keep trying to tape over fundamental flaws in the site by both distancing themselves from the creators and from not addressing their existing complaints. But they'll never answer the complaints because a proper customer service department costs money, alongside the lower but still existent cost of adding the necessary tools to creators. Especially when RUclips is running at a loss already.
The fundamental issue of youtube is that they are entirely understaffed to actually operate their own site responsibly. They don´t have the staff to moderate, to respond to their users, not to mention to subtitle the videos. They prefer a deeply flawed site that makes them lots of money over an better site that makes them less. There is just no fixing youtube´s issues without hiring people who do the work. But youtube takes the way that they think is the most profitable.
Y'know what could be a good way to incentivize this? Since they have RUclips Red original shows now, they could let people earn points they can cash in for individual episodes. I personally would be willing to do some subtitling and comment moderating in my spare time for that exchange. The idea of more responsibility and power is unappealing to me since that just means devoting more time to something I'm not actually getting paid for and therefore can't really afford to do, but for something I could do casually whenever that lets me watch more stuff is a good trade off for me.
Why didn't they just allow a fixed portion of ad revenue to be given out to subtitlers? They can just state what languages they are interested in, allow creators to opt in and approve subtitles for a certain payout from adrevenue or some such. Working for internet points is so last decade.
I have a pretty minor criticism of the video (which is a great breakdown of a bad idea). Most people will use "hearing impaired" as a polite term for deaf people. This is unfortunately counter-productive; they prefer to be called deaf.
Here's a thought. The algorithm for tags that current randomly demonetizes videos falsely is now going to be based on subtitles made by RUclips heroes.
Even though this topic doesn't directly affect me, i was still interested in what was going on. Watching the video the way you broke thing down was so clear and straightforward that you more than deserve my sub good sir =)
I think the caption argument is quite good. I actually enjoy translating high-quality content for my friends, who do not know English that well. That is also a really good language training.
This is a useful video. Although, really, I'm pretty sure 99% of the problems with RUclips come down to "RUclips fails to properly communicate what's going on." Also, as someone who's mildly hard of hearing, I understand the value of captions. As someone who has disabilities related to their hands, however, captioning unscripted videos is troublesome for me--moreso because I have to split my focus between compensating for hearing loss and dexterity issues. My only real option would be to pay for captioning, which would mean I'd be spending money on videos as I don't monetise/use Patreon/etc. And I already knew community subtitles were a thing, but I've always been iffy in their use. This, again, falls to RUclips not explaining what their features do.
generally speaking, "d/Deaf & Hard of Hearing" or "d/Deaf and HoH" is preferable to "hearing impaired." great video : ) I'm seeing it after the program's death but it was still interesting to watch
i just want to say how happy and and how much i appreciate all this welcome that was given to me i hope i can be a good team player and work this out and i hope you all had i great day i sure did thanks to you all again have a great one hope to see you soon take care
My channel is 99% based on trying to get two murderers put in jail and holding the incompetent/corrupt cops accountable for refusing to put those two known murderers in jail. I can't have people putting subtitles on my videos, there are people I name in the videos who would LOVE to see my videos removed from RUclips and I can only imagine the kind of subtitles they would add.
not directly. i used to look through his channel for interesting videos a while ago, now i just watch the youtube recommendations because those are videos i havent seen yet
The problem is there is a ton of "valid" reasons to accurate flag video being the most common one "swearing", ALOT of creators do it and at the moment if ur tags or titles dont contain any the automatic flagging system cant detect it, but with this program is going to be VERY easy to flag almost any channel entire content if that creator swear in regular basis.
I definitely get the subtitles thing. Like you don’t think about it when you are an English speaker but as someone who likes listening to vocaloid songs and come up with theories based on the LYRICS of the song..... I’m pretty fucked since most are in Japanese and new ones take a while to get enough attention to find something that not only can speak English and Japanese but is willing to subtitle it. And that’s just for English. Imagine how the chances are lower for other languages. So I get RUclips’s attempts at increasing that. They still fucked up and didn’t look things through *completely* but I get the intentions.
Even if flagging is restrained now, It just feels like the start of a slippery slope during a time when many people are too ready to flag things they shouldn't
I agree with your points. And while I do think this idea sounds good on paper, there's always room for exploitation. Oh BTW, I didn't realize you were the Foldable Human until I saw your avy. Love your content when you were still a puppet, and I'll keep an eye on your channel.
RUclips Heroes reminded me on...damn, what song was that again? That one from some old Donald Duck face about the face of a some guy called Führer, whoever he was. By the way, I get the point with the hearing impaired, but personally I think the lack of subtitles can also be a blessing for people who don't are fluent in the dominant language. It helped me to learn understand the english language.
Current video flagging also *"requires"* that RUclips staff review the report. And we already have abuse with it as there is already too much video flagged for RUclips staff to review and the process is mostly the same as automated at this point because the so called staff review need to skim over every flag so fast that they barely watch the video or give any thoughts (a bot could also actually be considered part of RUclips staff). So with RUclips Heroes that doesn't change, but now the abusers get more incitement to do so... and a pat on the back by RUclips itself. PS: If you believe gaining points for volunteer work to make captions is enough to incite more people to do so, then it will also be enough to bring people to flag more videos they slightly dislike/disagree with (after all, this is the Internet we are talking about).
As someone with slightly impaired hearing, I do like that there's now an incentive for volunteer subtitling, but also people use this to put "joke subtitles," subtitles that don't match the video but are accepted because they're funny, or subtitles that are mostly correct but have the occasional joke slapped in in parenthesis. For someone with limited hearing, these are very confusing and frustrating, going against the whole point of there being subtitles in the first place.
Hi! Do these type of subs confuse you because you can't tell if it's a joke or if it's in the video? (No ill intent, just curious)
@@lilithhedwig5408 both, subtitles are supposed to reflect what is being said and the sounds in the vídeo, not for ppl to mess around
Lilith Hedwig personally I get very very confused because it’s often clear that the CC are incorrect but I have no idea what they are actually saying. I don’t turn on subtitles as a joke, I use them for information, and having purposefully wrong content is really frustrating. Compromising the integrity of subtitles is really hurtful.
@@lilithhedwig5408 Sorry, for the late reply, it's a mixture of both but mostly the second. I miss what was actually said in the cases the joke replaces the dialogue, or when its in addition to, I miss what was said because I have to try and figure out what's being said and what's a bad sub before the sub goes away
Thank you all for the responses! I'm an hearing person who's not a native English speaker, so I always turn on subtitles when they are present to better understand everything that's being said (clarifying just for context), but I've never made my own subs for a video. What would you all think if there potentially were two English subs options, mainly in videos that already have the "joke" subs? One where it's specified that it's strictly speech-to-text subs and one where it's specified that there might be some jokes or additional infos* slapped in there? Would that be seen as offensive in your opinion? I mean if someone has done mostly correct subs with jokes it wouldn't be much of a trouble taking them out I think.
*I'm thinking for example the videos of Philosophytube have extra info or commentary slapped in [like this] or at the end of the videos and I think that's interesting.
Also, how do you feel about corrections in subs? Like I've seen in some videos where the creator corrects the occasional word or two so it doesn't perfectly match the video but it's better in their opinion.
I'm sorry if I asked too much, obviously feel free to ignore me!
Captioning has a much greater value for Google:than just a complimentary service.
1 - The captions can be indexed by the search engine..
2- The human contributed captions can be used to train their speech recognition AI.
I don't disagree but I still think the greed aspect is minimal enough it not be the biggest concern (after all most feature length movies have closed captions perfectly open for RUclips to teach ai from and RUclips already sells those). You do raise good points I just see this as more of a neutral-unintentionally good act (improving accessibility to those who are hearing impaired or don't speak the creators language) than greedy one.
Welp...
I guess not
Sad that RUclips got rid of community contribution
I'd be concerned about relying on anonymous internet users of an entertainment service to supply reliable, accurate training data. I don't know who was supposed to scrutinize the community-supplied captions, but I presume it would either have to be the creator or the community. If I was an engineer, I'd be very much opposed to trusting either of those options to be diligent about only accepting accurately matching entries, particularly if that necessity isn't communicated to them nor incentivized.
In short: Letting randos contribute training data for a serious, professional project is a recipe for disaster. Garbage in, garbage out.
remember when youtube wanted people to add subtitiles?
Why can't RUclips just explain all of this themselves instead of having to rely on people like yourself to be kind enough to explain the situation?
My thoughts exactly. That youtube help video was absolutely useless, far too easy to misinterpret.
If the explanation above is correct then the system isn't as potentially damaging as what I originally thought.
Gig economy baby
.... Why would they remove massively successful content push?
@Kaley Ribera This is a scam assuming you're not a bot.
Explaining it doesn't make it seem any less of a lame and poorly thought out plan, so why bother, is my guess
Also, the YT creator community forum is not monitored by youtube nor google employees. They explained that to me themselves when a "moderator" forwarded my issue to a specific person via email at youtube. They said "the community and creator forums are designed for content creators to discuss issues among themselves, but are not officially monitored by youtube or google employees"
HAHAHA holy crap that's... wow. So that "reward" really is truly useless.
Captions have a utility beyond assisting the hearing impaired. It helps me watch videos while at work with no one noticing.
Not trying to spam or anything, but if you visit my channel, you will quickly see with my older videos why allowing random people to add subtitles is a REALLY BAD IDEA. I have people that I'm sure have been flagging the hell out of my channel for three years and I can only imagine what horrific captions they would add.
***** Oh shit! My boss just found me... ummm... bye!
Alchemica Blackwood you're fun
This was extremely informative. I appreciate your balanced approach to these topics. You're not quick to shout anyone down, and you take both points of view into consideration. Great video, Dan.
Dan. no one is fooled by your shell personas. get a goddam proper job and develop a social conscience you loser
I believe you mean shill, and no, I'm not Dan. Isn't it possible for someone to like what Dan has to say and for that person to not be Dan?
Get a life you loser.
Can we really tell the difference? What if we all are simply different aspects of Dan, bickering in his mind, for everyone on RUclips to see?
I don't know why people are giving this guy crap. He did a good job explaining RUclips Heroes and the pros and cons of of it.
Did RUclips heroes ever happen??
Edit: ohhh, RUclips Heroes didn’t work, so they just removed community subtitles altogether because “not enough people were using them.” Maybe they should’ve just maid their community subtitle feature more obvious and accessible.
It wasn't just ''not enoguh people were using them'' but it also was prone to bots submiting scam links in subtitles, which as an end result is another thing for youtube to spend resources on to moderate
@@LostSoulNaMing I suppose if it's just slur or links then RUclips could've just let the creators themselves "moderare" the submitted subtitles, buttt of course RUclips doesn't want to put effort into anything helpful.
@@ng.tr.s.p.1254 Community contributed captions always had an option for publishing to be withheld until the creator approved and published them. The problem was that you would still have to spend time reviewing the subtitles, which can be anywhere from an annoyance to impossible depending on how much content you put out. It's even worse for translated subtitles, which the creator often has no means of properly reviewing beyond entering all of it into Google Translate and skimming through it.
Now that scripted content is ridiculously easy to perfectly subtitle, and automatically generated captions are better than ever, I don't totally blame RUclips for killing off an old feature that was very prone to exploitation.
Don’t know why this was recommended now, I didn’t even remember what RUclips heroes was
Wait, lemme get this straight, cause it's so simply clear to me: if they just let people get xp for good CCs and a lot less for the other two, and you had one single bar that loaded and you got youtube premium for a month if you filled it... that would be monumental! of course, limit the thing for videos with a certain number of view or whatever, or the ones more favored by the algorithm, but that'd get all the videos subtitles super fast. Not stupid nonsensical tiers of awful... just give people youtube premium for a month... it doesn't actually cost youtube anything. Sure, it's less money made on the whole, but as the bulk of the work is done, demand and supply will stabilize, and better quality subs will be chosen, and the number of people that'll get free premium will be insignificant in youtube's ad revenue...
it's... SO SIMPLE!
RUclips, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
That would be great, unfortunately it would not benifit the creators who benifit from premium watchers giving them more money, but hey that's not a lot anyway and the other benefits, like the ones to the users, less ads, the ability to turn of the screen on mobile etc would be great.
It could be youtube silver or something as opposed to youtube gold which would be the paid service...
God I can't wait till capitalism is over and money is no longer a wall that gatekeeps people from things (like the ability to eat for God's sake)
Also, the issue with mass-flagging, is what it takes away from the content creator while it's being "Reviewed". I'm a small channel myself. But if someone went through and and mass-flagged all 800 or so videos of mine as "copyright infringement", those videos would be demonetized while being investigated. Because that has been the problem with the content-id system since inception. So, a troll flags an entire channel that makes a living off youtube, all their videos are flagged, and because of youtube's terrible content system, their channel is copyright strike'd into oblivion because YT staff couldn't possibly handle that type of task of reviewing hundreds of videos at the same time.
Now, get a small group of trolls, because we know they don't work solo, and watch them power-level themselves into Tier 3, now they can take down a channel at will, with a thousand copyright flags in under a minute.
Yeah, the mass-flagging tool should be scrapped. Even though I stand by what I say in the video, that people who are looking to be malicious already have more power than they ever need, there's still no real solid upside to the tool if there's no true control over who has access to it.
The only thing I see the mass flagging good for are those spam videos that take up popular/trending search terms as titles to advertise their stuff. It's common for games that release hacks/bots and some sites that just want to advertise to people searching for popular things with a dozen same video upload with the same title. Usually happens when i do some searches by upload date.
If I understand the report function, it is not allowed for a rando to flag you for copyright. Only the copyright owner and their bots are allowed to do that. I may be wrong there.
@@1redrider100 I know this is a year-old comment, but there's a huge difference between saying "you aren't allowed to do X" and actually preventing people from doing X. Some content creators get flagged for "stealing" _their own_ intellectual property; that's the state of enforcement of this rule.
Because RUclips just doesnt want to pay people to do it. They habor free labor. Peanuts
I think that'd be very expensive. But maybe like Mechanical Turk, from Amazon, and giving people some money (a couple cents per valid action) to spend on YT red or subscriptions for their favorite channels.
Bugme Not MAYBE YT could give just a couple cents to people, if even that. There are just too many people to pay everyone. And you can bet a lot of people would want to start doing this to get money.
But yeah, there are some people I wouldn't mind helping out a bit, but this is the kind of "job" that should not be free. If real rewards were behind it, people would take it more seriously. But since I don't think that's viable (to pay everyone), this crowdsourcing move is stupid of them.
im a starting youtuber
I'd say it veers from just being "doesn't want to" into "can't possibly". RUclips already leaks money, despite being one of the top 5 websites in the world. They just can't afford the manpower to do this.
Didn't AOL get sued by their "volunteers" for exactly this? They lost and had to pay them backed wages.
I think those execs at Google never knew the IT tech history. Eventually it will all crashing down on them hard once this get green lit.
It's kind of ironic watching this six years later with automatically generated subtitles.
They're sometimes better than the CC by humans even! (Except when the language got recognized as `Vietnamese` for some obscure reason, but even that's been happening less)
not to mention many nongenerated subs are out of sync with the video
Holy shit... That creepy "like, share, subscribe" at the end caught me really off guard and will haunt me in my sleep tonight.
I heard no 'like share subscribe'.
I did see just a single frame of Brad Pitt's junk.
I just became a RUclips Hero, and I make it my mission to save RUclips from itself.
Good one Sir
Uilliam Coorinna and the one it needs later but also right now...? I don't think the quote goes like that but please mr/madame Phrog, be a great hero
Something something die a hero something something become a villain
So, maybe I missed it but I gotta ask: was this scrapped with a public announcement or did they just let it silently die?
I think it just died at some point. I still haven’t seen anything about this, except that they removed the community captions feature altogether now.
Watching this after they removed community captioning hits different
Did you... did you just *think* before posting an angry video?!?!?! What has the world become...
I reported this comment do I get a point?
I think it's pretty fair to be angry about RUclips's bullshit they just pulled. Also, it's not really a topic that requires a lot of thought to call out as bullshit.
Given the sheer volume of commenters who seem to be surprised to learn RUclips has a report button, it seems to require a lot more thought than most are willing to put into it.
Folding Ideas It's less about having said report button, and more about how it's already easy to abuse, and seems to be becoming even easier to abuse.
As someone who tries to add close captioning to their videos, I can tell you first hand that it's a very boring and time consuming processes; even when you've working with a written scripted. I think that adding CC as a content creator is a good thing to make your content more accessible to different audiences. Even if you don't add CC in different languages, adding CC in the default language gives audience to use the translate option; though not perfect, at least it's something. I personally do it so I'm not misunderstood in my pronunciations of words.
I did a little bit of volunteer transcribing a while back for a podcast--four people talking, unscripted. And while those people were definitely trying their best not to talk over each other etc., I still gave up about an hour into the 2-hour episode because it was such a boring pain in the ass and I had no financial or social obligation to finish it. Especially for unscripted work, it's astounding how many non-word vocals and slips of the tongue people make when talking that we've learned to subconsciously ignore over the years of learning and knowing our language. Typing out every single verbal mishap is distracting for calling attention to it, bit you also can't just omit all of it or else the mismatch between audio and transcript becomes distracting instead. Transcription is hard goddamn work, and the people who do it deserve more money and more respect.
I enjoy listening to you talk. You would make a great teacher!
He is a teacher. We are all teachers and students.
@@baronvonbeandip We may be all students, but calling everyone teachers completely dilutes the meaning and significance of the profession imo
@@U2kheim props for responding to a comment 4 years after posting
@@U2kheim I think he did used to work in education
Whatever intent RUclips might have had in mind with this proposition, they failed to look at the fact that they're RUclips and everything they touch is set ablaze.
I like how you actually go out of your way to explain issues instead of just blowing them out of proportion for views and money like everyone else does
god, remember when everyone thought youtube heroes was the worst idea imaginable?
then the nfts came.
Just so you know, I made you that pixel Foldie the other day cause you're basically my fav YTer. Really love the part where you actually think it through when reacting to stuff,
Thanks! It's super adorable!
I'd really like to see this topic and points revisited with the recent changes to community captioning in September 2020.
Between this and the Fine Bros., you are fast becoming the go to guy to explain what's behind the latest RUclips outrages!
do not bring up the fine Bros. mistake...please.
Morbos is referring to an explainer like this that I did for React World.
I know...
Lmao did they actually want to have mass Unpaid Moderators do all the work for them? Amazing...
You make some great points. I think the reason why content creators are mad is because they have been asking RUclips to fix the issues with video takedowns and they're going in the opposite direction. Sure, it may be a grind to access the features creators are afraid of, but the fact that anyone can do it if they really wanted to makes it worse for them, even if it doesn't change everything.
"See, captions and subtitles *should* be the responsibility of content cream leaders."
Woulnd't it be cool if you could go on quests, like banishing fascist commentators, finding rare loot along the way, such as the Sould of the Democratic party or Chuck Schumer's spine, craft special potions from the tears of Jordan Peterson or Alex Jones fanboys.
I already waste too much time fighting with mor0ns in the RUclips comments, you just gamified my second worst habit.
I wish this existed while acknowledging that it's a good thing it doesn't.
Great idea.
do you fear youtube is also encouraging the captioning of videos so their algorithms can much more easily pick up on whether or not a video is using 'inappropriate' language, so they can demonitize those videos?
Nice thinking. And you may actually be on to something.
Ohhh shit. You're probably right!
I think Dan said something to that effect on Twitter a few days ago. If he captions his video correctly, and provides the captions to RUclips at time of upload, it's far less likely to get hit with the demonetization bot. Think about how terrible the RUclips auto-caption bot is, and now realize that it's the primary signal for the demonetization bot. Every time it mishears you and thinks you swore, you get hit with a demonetization.
p.s. gamergate punks fuck off
Trolls need to make some money too, we are important, and never get any love, heroes is awesome!
Had never heard of this.
This aged so poorly now that publicly submitted captions have been disregarded and banned by RUclips.
It's now "RUclips history."
Looking back on this 5 years later
1) It just silently died, relatively quickly
2) I don't necessarily agree with you on the captioning part. Most creators, at the very least those who don't have the resources to hire people, don't have the time to create captions. Creating captions is time consuming, and if everything you say was improvised, you don't have a script to work with. This is different from TV. Though I don't know if it's the people behind a program or the TV station itself that add subtitles, it doesn't matter much as the end result is the same: there's an institution with enough resources to add subtitles.
It's Google/Alphabet in a nutshell -- a badly thought out change that winds up vanishing quickly. Google is too huge to have good ideas anymore.
Um, what part did you not agree with? You basically just paraphrased what he said. It is an unsexy job that it incredibly time consuming with little to no pay-off. He literally says why no one wants to do it and why it would be difficult, even for RUclips. Besides, at what point is there enough captioning? Imagine captioning every video in english. Now imagine the amount of manhours to do that over a hundred times to account for any variation of language. Did you disagree with phrase "creators should" part? No other person is responsible for the captioning. Tell us, who SHOULD be responsible for the captioning? Mind you, "should" does not mean "have to". Because obviously random people SHOULDN'T be forced to caption videos, theyvhad nothing to do with the video. RUclips can't caption videos that aren't posted yet and the creators would obviously need to notify youtube to caption it, so we can see that creators are the key factor in that idea. No matter what way you can think of it, I have no doubt in my mind that you can only come up the same answer. Well, unless you choose to ignore the question with the worthless rebuttal "no one should" because that is a non answer that uncritically examines the situation and basically says you don't want to answer this difficult question.
it's definitely interesting to see how these things have changed over time. While they never adopted the term "RUclips Heroes" in the end, there are still 2 programs (Trusted Flaggers & Product Experts) that split up the different parts. Granted, it looks like Trusted Flaggers isn't doing very well, but the Product Expert program for RUclips is going very strong (PEs are the community help forum facing volunteers...RUclips/Google upgraded the forum from what was presented in this video, haha. Full disclosure: I am a Product Expert).
And then RUclips flat out got rid of community captions entirely.
As far as subtitles/CC goes, wouldn't it make more sense to create an incentives program geared towards the CREATORS themselves for that? They would be the best people to do it, and with some sensible incentives (which creators can gain a lot more from than just users), they'd be a lot more likely to get the job done. Things like a bit more exposure, relatively speaking, for videos with CC would make sense (if that doesn't already exist). Of course, the creators rarely know many languages, so you would also need a platform, provided by RUclips, for connecting creators with translators, and they could work for free if they want or come up with a fair compensation plan, which could be anything from small monetary compensation (a lump sum or based on views/ad revenue) to a shoutout to fan merch, and so on.
Looking through the comments it's easy to see who saw the video and who didn't also it's nice to see someone who can agrue both sides of the story. Still it goes to show how poor you tube is at communication not just with content creators but also with it's whole bloody community
5 year later and they have removed the only USEFUL feature of community captions. 🙄
That and the dislike button.
Thanks for making this so quickly. This was a very good overview of the deal.
I vaguely remember that commercial. I'm pretty sure I just skipped it or did something else without listening to it.
On another note, I've always been intimidated by the ability to report videos, since I generally walk around and do chores while listening to them on my phone and I've noticed I can accidentally press buttons I don't mean to. I'm just afraid of accidentally reporting a video and never knowing I did. Especially since most of the RUclipsrs I like either review or theorize over media.
thank you for explaining this in a calm way and thoroughly. not all of the youtubers are doing this.
The intent is not the issue. The lack of foresight RUclips has with this becoming an issue is wherein the problem lies.
***** I would agree if I didn't adblock everything. None of the RUclipsrs I watch get diddly shit unless I allow them to.
Thanks for this overview, you seem like a knowledgeable guy. Subbed. Thanks for doing this again, it really made me and my tiny channel freak out when I read this on Kotaku...
Oh hey I forgot about that. Wonder if it even got implemented at all.
RUclips people can't POSSIBLY check all the flagged videos if a mass flag option is given to people. They already do a horrible job at it. Now multiply the number of flagged videos by 3 or 4, or 10. That doesn't make sense. It's the same as the captions thing. Just like they can never caption every video because there are so many new ones each day, they'll NEVER catch up to the amount of flags, as they'll be way more numerous. It's definitely going to be an automatic system. At least partially.
On a second note, it's not just incentivizing people, it's a call to arms. The man in the middle is literally waving a flag, for pete's sake. Even more flags appear sticking out of the "You get points when you..." graphics. It's very clear that getting everyone to start flagging is the main thing here.
The "contacting YT staff directly" can't be real. If creators can't do it now ( I assume because there aren't enough people at YT to even try to do this), how can allowing potentially thousands and thousands of people to do that?
Not even gonna talk about the "negative content".
Volunteer work is the way to go, really. BUT you can't just allow some random people in. There has to be a very deep screening and thorough process. Currently, to apply, all you have to do is check two boxes and click a button.
I've seen a number of free labor karma-RPG moderating and other types of community systems over the years and they all seem to be absolute shit culminating in the decline of the site.
What happens is that systems involving doing free QA and janitorial work in exchange for meaningless points and moderation abilities attract a certain type of person. Almost nobody will be attracted by these conditions but someone who desperately wants to feel empowered and demonstrate that power to lower status community members will love the idea.
After a while, these users, being so similar of mind and having very similar self-serving purposes, become an almost unionized demographic and gain a lot of leverage over the site. They have the ear of the bill payers more than the bread and butter users and then there's the reality of their free labors contributing to the bottom line.
If there's some sort of strike because the ownership tries to take back control, there's a chance this free labor leaves en masse as the only incentive they have dries up, which is a scary prospect to an entity who is suddenly faced with increased support costs.
With this top-heavy administrative overhead, you end up getting a malaise over the site. It doesn't die immediately. It just becomes frozen in time. The userbase ceases to grow. Internal drama and power jockeying multiplies. Arguably this is already happening to RUclips, though we'll need a year's or more worth of data to even speculate as to whether RUclips's content policies are contributing to a new channel decline I'm implying might exist.
Where the hell did you get your concept of how this system works?
You only get points if the video is confirmed by RUclips's double-check system (humans at RUclips) confirming that the video does, in fact, violate the rules.
So, yeah, you're wrong in almost every way you could be wrong.
Folding Ideas I'm sure you know how it works.
Anyway. If YT increases the amount of videos people can flag (and does not pay them for what is essentially a job), that will increase the number of flagged content by a lot.
What happens then is that there is no way (not enough people) to check everything. If there was, there would be no need to get "volunteer work", and that job would be done by employees.
Take the copyright claim system for example. The only way a human being will be involved is if you put up a counter claim. The copyright claim system is automatic (in that your stuff will be removed almost immediately, no matter if the claim has merit, you can read that on one of their pages). Then, after you issue a counter claim, a human will actually watch the video and check if you are doing something wrong. If not, you get the video back.
It's *impossible* for YT staff to check every single video every single time they get a flag. There are just too many videos. Can you imagine how many flagged videos there are a day? Now multiply that by the number of flags you can do with a mass flagging tool.
If you are gullible enough to think there's someone double checking every copyright claim/flag, just... wow.
The whole idea of giving this much power to people without even making sure they're going to behave as responsible moderators is a recipe for disaster. It's like taking children, fanboys and/or trolls, giving them weapons and saying "go nuts". Flag wars probably happen right now, but it seems like this can only incentivise it. Given how poorly RUclips's flagging system actually works and given how if you get 3 strikes against community guidelines your channel gets deleted, there's the danger that content creators face losing their channel because an army of kids flagged their videos.
The only thing they offer that actually seems good for RUclips is incentivising people to caption videos.
And this is why people are pissed about it... it gives rewards for abusing the system. AND, you-tube can't check every video, which means some will fall though the crack and thus make a bigger problems.
I do agree youtube can not check every video. Having people flag an send in video's having someone check that is much more efficient.
129das Ya but even then, they don't have enough of a staff for that. That's already what happens... so giving points to people gives off the idea that they want to reward bad behavior.
it's better than letting bots strike down random videos
the price for subtitles on a video is about 15-50 dollars/min...-somebody who works in the industry for a year
yeah
If they retry something like this, here's what they should do: First, forget the demonetization and copyright ideas in this; if that's not your main reason for Heroes, don't bundle it with the system. Second, make a zero power, high purpose reward; if the reward allows corruption, people will hate it. Instead, make this the reward; Every line of subtitles, pays for a cent of your RUclips Red and/or RUclips TV subscription. If you write 100 lines of subtitles, you have to pay $9 dollars for your Red subscription instead of $10; and if you write 1,000 lines, you get that month of Red free. If subtitles are so important to RUclips, they need to make a REAL reason to do it, if you have to sacrifice $10-$25 per person, oh well.
Honestly, the rewards are really lame. Like... really, really lame. I put some time and effort into putting in subtitles for my favorite content creators, and I don't do it because of... whatever all that garbage is. I do it because I want to provide accommodations for hearing-impaired users. I'm sure I'm not the only person who is interested in this. I wouldn't have even known about it if the channel in question hadn't just... straight-up asked people do to it. If RUclips would just make it clear how important this is, with... oh, I don't know... an informative RUclips video? Then I'm sure more people would do it, because it's honestly not a bad way to waste a couple spare hours, and it makes you feel like you dun good, y'know? It's tedious, yes, but if EVERYBODY subtitled one, single word on the videos they watched, then every video on RUclips would be subtitled. Making people feel like even a drop in the bucket is effective, and showing us the effects that being able to accommodate other people has on their lives, is all that's needed to make this work.
Anyway, great, informative video! You have some of the best content on RUclips, and it's always worth a watch!!
imma say it: this man is hot.
I agree
Fascinating to watch a video from back when Discord was at the level of popularity where it could be misspoken
It's not a misspelling of Discord, it's a platform called Discourse, where people have discourse
Thank you for making this video! It's really informative and you have a balanced view of it, which is refreshing to see because regarding this RUclips Heroes thing I have seen mostly outrage and people screaming about censorship. I appreciate the work you do :)
Nice to finally find a video that delves into the specifics. I'm actually glad to hear RUclips's not as insane as they sounded. The person who needs an ass kicking is probably who came up with their reveal video for explaining it so poorly.
The issue with level 3 is that if a channel is flagged three times, it is immediately given a strike without having to be reviewed. 9 flags could have the channel removed from RUclips instantly, especially since the mass flag feature doesn't require you to actually watch the videos you flag.
The worst thing about RUclips Heroes, really, is the waste of time it spent on it when it could've instead given the content creators the power they need to handle themselves. They keep trying to tape over fundamental flaws in the site by both distancing themselves from the creators and from not addressing their existing complaints.
But they'll never answer the complaints because a proper customer service department costs money, alongside the lower but still existent cost of adding the necessary tools to creators. Especially when RUclips is running at a loss already.
The fundamental issue of youtube is that they are entirely understaffed to actually operate their own site responsibly. They don´t have the staff to moderate, to respond to their users, not to mention to subtitle the videos. They prefer a deeply flawed site that makes them lots of money over an better site that makes them less. There is just no fixing youtube´s issues without hiring people who do the work. But youtube takes the way that they think is the most profitable.
Another excellently analytical video - you rock brother!
Y'know what could be a good way to incentivize this? Since they have RUclips Red original shows now, they could let people earn points they can cash in for individual episodes. I personally would be willing to do some subtitling and comment moderating in my spare time for that exchange. The idea of more responsibility and power is unappealing to me since that just means devoting more time to something I'm not actually getting paid for and therefore can't really afford to do, but for something I could do casually whenever that lets me watch more stuff is a good trade off for me.
Does anyone know why the likes and dislikes are turned off?
There was a time when Dan Olson thought it was a good idea to disable dislikes on his videos. He hasn't done that for the past 2 years.
*turns on CC when he mentions it
"Content cream leaders"
Aside that this vid seems fine subtitle wise.
what Im getting from this video is that they made a great captioning idea and tied the worst fucking mody powers ever to it
Free YT red would be a great reward for heroes. I've done captions on hundreds of videos and that's all I would really appreciate.
another great video :D very informative thanks
Why didn't they just allow a fixed portion of ad revenue to be given out to subtitlers? They can just state what languages they are interested in, allow creators to opt in and approve subtitles for a certain payout from adrevenue or some such. Working for internet points is so last decade.
RUclips Heroes will simply open the door to an all out flagging war... the last man standing is the RUclipsr with the most followers!!!
I have a pretty minor criticism of the video (which is a great breakdown of a bad idea). Most people will use "hearing impaired" as a polite term for deaf people. This is unfortunately counter-productive; they prefer to be called deaf.
Here's a thought. The algorithm for tags that current randomly demonetizes videos falsely is now going to be based on subtitles made by RUclips heroes.
Even though this topic doesn't directly affect me, i was still interested in what was going on. Watching the video the way you broke thing down was so clear and straightforward that you more than deserve my sub good sir =)
RUclips in one sentence - It is an okay idea, it just needs (a lot) of tweaking.
is the creator community forum just dead now? I can't find any evidence of it existing anymore, and even Killed by Google knows nothing about it
Hey, I was one of the camera operators for the event featured on the YTCC home page! Cool.
what an old vid,,,
a whole head of hair ago
I think the caption argument is quite good.
I actually enjoy translating high-quality content for my friends, who do not know English that well. That is also a really good language training.
This is a useful video.
Although, really, I'm pretty sure 99% of the problems with RUclips come down to "RUclips fails to properly communicate what's going on."
Also, as someone who's mildly hard of hearing, I understand the value of captions. As someone who has disabilities related to their hands, however, captioning unscripted videos is troublesome for me--moreso because I have to split my focus between compensating for hearing loss and dexterity issues. My only real option would be to pay for captioning, which would mean I'd be spending money on videos as I don't monetise/use Patreon/etc. And I already knew community subtitles were a thing, but I've always been iffy in their use. This, again, falls to RUclips not explaining what their features do.
I know youtube should pay this guy or just rent his video for one of their official channel. RUclips forgot to explain again.
129das Maybe they could just use him as a consultant.,
on second thought, this wasn't that bad of an idea
I barely know what he’s talking about but I fell in love when he said the problem with capitalism
Yes, thank you.
It's a horrible idea with horrible intentions. Don't bs me
first time watching his video gotta say I like it it was very informative and fun. now I'm subscribed to you. :)
Informative video. Thank you for allowing me to better reinforce my opinion that RUclips is doing absolutely nothing positive for their service.
generally speaking, "d/Deaf & Hard of Hearing" or "d/Deaf and HoH" is preferable to "hearing impaired." great video : ) I'm seeing it after the program's death but it was still interesting to watch
i just want to say how happy and and how much i appreciate all this welcome that was given to me i hope i can be a good team player and work this out and i hope you all had i great day i sure did thanks to you all again have a great one hope to see you soon take care
My channel is 99% based on trying to get two murderers put in jail and holding the incompetent/corrupt cops accountable for refusing to put those two known murderers in jail. I can't have people putting subtitles on my videos, there are people I name in the videos who would LOVE to see my videos removed from RUclips and I can only imagine the kind of subtitles they would add.
cops don't put people in jail for any more then minor offences that would be the judge's job.
now you google youtube heroes and nothing related comes up^^
S1nwar u on a folding ideas binge too?
not directly. i used to look through his channel for interesting videos a while ago, now i just watch the youtube recommendations because those are videos i havent seen yet
The problem is there is a ton of "valid" reasons to accurate flag video being the most common one "swearing", ALOT of creators do it and at the moment if ur tags or titles dont contain any the automatic flagging system cant detect it, but with this program is going to be VERY easy to flag almost any channel entire content if that creator swear in regular basis.
I want a follow up for every one of these old videos.
I definitely get the subtitles thing. Like you don’t think about it when you are an English speaker but as someone who likes listening to vocaloid songs and come up with theories based on the LYRICS of the song..... I’m pretty fucked since most are in Japanese and new ones take a while to get enough attention to find something that not only can speak English and Japanese but is willing to subtitle it. And that’s just for English. Imagine how the chances are lower for other languages. So I get RUclips’s attempts at increasing that. They still fucked up and didn’t look things through *completely* but I get the intentions.
Even if flagging is restrained now, It just feels like the start of a slippery slope during a time when many people are too ready to flag things they shouldn't
RUclips heroes? You mean the randall weems patrol?
I agree with your points. And while I do think this idea sounds good on paper, there's always room for exploitation.
Oh BTW, I didn't realize you were the Foldable Human until I saw your avy. Love your content when you were still a puppet, and I'll keep an eye on your channel.
Wow I forgot this was all even a thing. And it seemed like such a massive deal at the time. Wait, why am I watching this in December 2020?
This has been HELPFUL...THANK YOU! Much love.
RUclips Heroes reminded me on...damn, what song was that again? That one from some old Donald Duck face about the face of a some guy called Führer, whoever he was. By the way, I get the point with the hearing impaired, but personally I think the lack of subtitles can also be a blessing for people who don't are fluent in the dominant language. It helped me to learn understand the english language.
nice, first ten seconds gets all the main points across.
Current video flagging also *"requires"* that RUclips staff review the report. And we already have abuse with it as there is already too much video flagged for RUclips staff to review and the process is mostly the same as automated at this point because the so called staff review need to skim over every flag so fast that they barely watch the video or give any thoughts (a bot could also actually be considered part of RUclips staff).
So with RUclips Heroes that doesn't change, but now the abusers get more incitement to do so... and a pat on the back by RUclips itself.
PS: If you believe gaining points for volunteer work to make captions is enough to incite more people to do so, then it will also be enough to bring people to flag more videos they slightly dislike/disagree with (after all, this is the Internet we are talking about).
I think it's a great idea! I mean, subtitling an hour's worth of nursery rhymes? What could be more noble?!
I gave your cideo a thumbs up. Am i a hero now?