I don't like Crowley, but given the way human nature is, if you can't separate the art from the artist you'll never be able to use/appreciate much art. And I think the existence of art in our world is more important than the individual personalities that create it. Art gives us beauty and challenges our preconceptions and opens up new ideas. Even a bad person can have moments of beauty, a great idea, or even a prejudice that we can recognize in ourselves that helps us change. I got a Green version about 50+ years ago and for some reason carried it around for many years even though I wasn't into tarot till recently. Unfortunately, along the way I lost about 5 of the cards, but I keep it for sentimental reasons. I'd be interested to hear what non Crowley Thoth decks you might have, like Sun and Moon, and what you think of the deck when it's not Lady Frieda's art.
My mom me told me of a quote in high school that was enlightening for me. She said it was Mark Twain’s but I couldn’t corroborate that. Anyway this video brought it to mind…..”If you can only afford one newspaper, buy the oppositions.” Anyway thank you so much for this video and your thoughts. Much appreciated.
I really love the Thoth art. This is just me, but helps me re this deck to think of Crowley as this damaged little boy growing up in a really extreme cult, rejected by his mother, I can have empathy for that *and* reject his horrible hateful choices as an adult. The fact Frida initiated this deck project and put up with his asshole ways bc she believed in his vision interests me. I wonder what it was like for him to have a talented, wealthy woman (that he wasn't objectifying) challenge him, but also accept him where his own mother could not. Frida must have seen some humanity in him despite knowing unpleasant and unpopular he was.
Well about Crowly is more important to me his law:" Do what you wish!" BUT with years he added the ONLY law above his law and it was LOVE. And he lived it on a old days law of love ❤
I know Thoth tarot was made partly by a despicable man, but I can not help that it just resonates with me way better. One of my favourite decks is an indie deck made on the basis of Crowley's Tarot by a queer artist. I do consider the original to also be close to my heart, but i think that is more Harris' work. I unfortunately only own one cheap czech translation thats also rather tiny. But I still prefer Crowley over RWS. The removal of christianization really calms my mind.
Hehe, love how far down this particular rabbit hole you went in the search for a Thoth deck. I have the large version with the more saturated colours and white border on the backs. I absolutely love it, the artwork just sings (I can't deal with anything smaller for this deck, it just doesn't work so well IMHO). I originally thought that I would trim my copy down, what with it being so big and also finding the borders/keywords/titles kind of obnoxious but I have come to enjoy them as they are. I think Crowley was a bellend and don't really have any interest in what he had to say but my gods, every reading I have done with that deck has been intense and very spot on, right from the very first single card draw I did with it. I have a lovely worn secondhand copy of the Arrien book but have yet to read it. I hadn't heard of the book by the d1ck obsessed guy, is it worth reading? Thanks for sharing your Thoth Girl Summer findings!
Thank you for your continued honesty about the Thoth/Crowley question. I haven't purchased or used a Thoth deck because of the association. I've also deeply considered that many of the tools we use may have been inspired by and brought to the public under the hands of twisted people (art is an excellent example). I guess right now I've settled on not having THIS deck in my posession due to the extremity and purposeful misery of his actions and the direct degree of association the deck holds. I'm sure the interwebs will attack me to challenge that, but I really don't care; my convictions and inner voice tells me I don't need that deck in my practice so I simply look the other way. Curiously, I have brought Mary-El into my space, another Thothy inspired deck, but only after learning that hers is Thoth inspired but lifted into a different level through a completely different lens. I hope you will share your thoughts on the Thoth-inspired-but-not-Crowley decks out there, and how you sit with more "evolved" generations. Its good to see someone in the community willing to stand on their principles and also say they want to challenge themselves with what is offensive. Each reader making space for their personal ethic would be a welcome trend. Thanks again.
I enjoyed seeing comparisons and enjoyed listening to your thought process. I hope you can show us a comparison with your two gold thoths eventually. I’ve seen some on RUclips but it wasn’t as clear of a set up. Thoth is my favorite but personality I read them my own way and I accepted that’s okay. Enjoy exploring!
Thoth Girl Summer ! Ha I like. I'm not quite there yet... although I have a few Thoth highbred decks.... However, I always give a rueful smile about the up in arms response to Crowley, when moving aside the theatrical constructed persona of the 'beast', A.E.Waite and co were of the same stock and attitude. A gnosis that was brewed to boiling point in the GD, from similar backgrounds of gentlemanly and aristocratic public schools (private schools in the US). All of this spewed out into a series of paintings (shout out to Frieda Harris) that was a micro version of enlightenment as revealed to a myopic but often stoned, unplesant man. Do I need to or want to try and unravel the privileged, misogynistic early 20thC Eurocentric esoteric ramblings of the self styled "beast" or do I look at the Thoth deck as a shapeshifting 'tool' which ultimately means it can be anything I want it to be. I am the reader soooo.... That went off on a little rant... Thank you for your video, in terms of deck types. You went in so we don't have to. Your reading was interesting as well. Much gratitude Jx
My father is an Anglo-Irish gentleman of a certain age. He tells me Crowley, Gerald Gardner, and goofballs like that were everywhere in British public schools (private schools, for Americans) at the time. They were the edge lords of the early 20th century, and most of it was just an attempt to see women naked for free. Even Lady Freida Harris is a goofy, pretentious weirdo. Her real title should be, Freida Lady Harris, but she put the Lady first because that implies she's the daughter of a Duke or Earl, rather than one's divorced wife.
I’m not sure how difficult it is to obtain, but The Thoth Journey Tarot: An Oracle for Change by Aia Leu & Joanna-Kate Grant is another beautiful modern take on the Thoth template. I very much enjoyed the reading that went along with your personal process. Thank you!
I don't like Crowley, but given the way human nature is, if you can't separate the art from the artist you'll never be able to use/appreciate much art. And I think the existence of art in our world is more important than the individual personalities that create it. Art gives us beauty and challenges our preconceptions and opens up new ideas. Even a bad person can have moments of beauty, a great idea, or even a prejudice that we can recognize in ourselves that helps us change. I got a Green version about 50+ years ago and for some reason carried it around for many years even though I wasn't into tarot till recently. Unfortunately, along the way I lost about 5 of the cards, but I keep it for sentimental reasons. I'd be interested to hear what non Crowley Thoth decks you might have, like Sun and Moon, and what you think of the deck when it's not Lady Frieda's art.
My mom me told me of a quote in high school that was enlightening for me. She said it was Mark Twain’s but I couldn’t corroborate that. Anyway this video brought it to mind…..”If you can only afford one newspaper, buy the oppositions.” Anyway thank you so much for this video and your thoughts. Much appreciated.
I really love the Thoth art. This is just me, but helps me re this deck to think of Crowley as this damaged little boy growing up in a really extreme cult, rejected by his mother, I can have empathy for that *and* reject his horrible hateful choices as an adult. The fact Frida initiated this deck project and put up with his asshole ways bc she believed in his vision interests me. I wonder what it was like for him to have a talented, wealthy woman (that he wasn't objectifying) challenge him, but also accept him where his own mother could not. Frida must have seen some humanity in him despite knowing unpleasant and unpopular he was.
Well about Crowly is more important to me his law:" Do what you wish!" BUT with years he added the ONLY law above his law and it was LOVE.
And he lived it on a old days law of love ❤
I know Thoth tarot was made partly by a despicable man, but I can not help that it just resonates with me way better. One of my favourite decks is an indie deck made on the basis of Crowley's Tarot by a queer artist. I do consider the original to also be close to my heart, but i think that is more Harris' work.
I unfortunately only own one cheap czech translation thats also rather tiny. But I still prefer Crowley over RWS. The removal of christianization really calms my mind.
thank you for the comparison. I like the more saturated colors. Seems to have more depth
Hehe, love how far down this particular rabbit hole you went in the search for a Thoth deck.
I have the large version with the more saturated colours and white border on the backs. I absolutely love it, the artwork just sings (I can't deal with anything smaller for this deck, it just doesn't work so well IMHO). I originally thought that I would trim my copy down, what with it being so big and also finding the borders/keywords/titles kind of obnoxious but I have come to enjoy them as they are.
I think Crowley was a bellend and don't really have any interest in what he had to say but my gods, every reading I have done with that deck has been intense and very spot on, right from the very first single card draw I did with it.
I have a lovely worn secondhand copy of the Arrien book but have yet to read it. I hadn't heard of the book by the d1ck obsessed guy, is it worth reading?
Thanks for sharing your Thoth Girl Summer findings!
Yes Crowley was a product of his time, but he was particularly worst then his pears
Thank you for your continued honesty about the Thoth/Crowley question. I haven't purchased or used a Thoth deck because of the association. I've also deeply considered that many of the tools we use may have been inspired by and brought to the public under the hands of twisted people (art is an excellent example). I guess right now I've settled on not having THIS deck in my posession due to the extremity and purposeful misery of his actions and the direct degree of association the deck holds.
I'm sure the interwebs will attack me to challenge that, but I really don't care; my convictions and inner voice tells me I don't need that deck in my practice so I simply look the other way.
Curiously, I have brought Mary-El into my space, another Thothy inspired deck, but only after learning that hers is Thoth inspired but lifted into a different level through a completely different lens.
I hope you will share your thoughts on the Thoth-inspired-but-not-Crowley decks out there, and how you sit with more "evolved" generations.
Its good to see someone in the community willing to stand on their principles and also say they want to challenge themselves with what is offensive. Each reader making space for their personal ethic would be a welcome trend. Thanks again.
I enjoyed seeing comparisons and enjoyed listening to your thought process. I hope you can show us a comparison with your two gold thoths eventually. I’ve seen some on RUclips but it wasn’t as clear of a set up. Thoth is my favorite but personality I read them my own way and I accepted that’s okay. Enjoy exploring!
Thoth Girl Summer ! Ha I like. I'm not quite there yet... although I have a few Thoth highbred decks....
However, I always give a rueful smile about the up in arms response to Crowley, when moving aside the theatrical constructed persona of the 'beast', A.E.Waite and co were of the same stock and attitude. A gnosis that was brewed to boiling point in the GD, from similar backgrounds of gentlemanly and aristocratic public schools (private schools in the US). All of this spewed out into a series of paintings (shout out to Frieda Harris) that was a micro version of enlightenment as revealed to a myopic but often stoned, unplesant man.
Do I need to or want to try and unravel the privileged, misogynistic early 20thC Eurocentric esoteric ramblings of the self styled "beast" or do I look at the Thoth deck as a shapeshifting 'tool' which ultimately means it can be anything I want it to be. I am the reader soooo....
That went off on a little rant...
Thank you for your video, in terms of deck types. You went in so we don't have to.
Your reading was interesting as well.
Much gratitude
Jx
My father is an Anglo-Irish gentleman of a certain age. He tells me Crowley, Gerald Gardner, and goofballs like that were everywhere in British public schools (private schools, for Americans) at the time. They were the edge lords of the early 20th century, and most of it was just an attempt to see women naked for free. Even Lady Freida Harris is a goofy, pretentious weirdo. Her real title should be, Freida Lady Harris, but she put the Lady first because that implies she's the daughter of a Duke or Earl, rather than one's divorced wife.
This is so interesting! Thanks for sharing!
I’m not sure how difficult it is to obtain, but The Thoth Journey Tarot: An Oracle for Change by Aia Leu & Joanna-Kate Grant is another beautiful modern take on the Thoth template.
I very much enjoyed the reading that went along with your personal process. Thank you!
Where have you seen he was anti Semitic?
It’s in his writings.
@ which writings? Would you be able to cite your sources? Maybe it’s in somewhere that’s out of print that I have yet to read.
You forgot about the outrageous misogyny……