I've always been tense even at the thought of playing octaves😂. So thanks very much for these tips. I shall try to apply them at my modest level to break through the psychological wall of octave playing. I will do my utmost to relax and smooth things out. Thank you.
You have a great way of making the sort of video where players of most any level can learn something, even beginners like me. I enjoyed the performance too. Thank you.
Thanks so much for watching, and I'm so glad to hear you enjoy playing my arrangements! I hope you'll share some videos of yourself performing them sometime as well!
Charles-hi! As I began the “Scales in Octaves” exercise in Hanon (#53), I noticed that I have to “force flatten” my hands to securely hit the black keys (typically with my first and fifth fingers at slight diagonals relative to the keys). Then, to land the white key octaves, my finger tips need to slightly “claw down”, again for precision. Needless to say, as I move through the scales, a certain tension sets in, so this guidance is super helpful. I love that you picked this Polonaise rather than the “octave monster” in the Heroic Polonaise- not that I don’t love it, I do- it has just been covered many times. I know how much time and effort you put in to making these videos for all of us, so I’m adding a small gesture of appreciation. ☺️ I really think you’re so great, and you give so much- thank you! (PS- I have been commenting more frequently because I have been told that it helps “the algorithm” push the video to others.)
Chris, first off, a HUGE thank you for this! I'm very very grateful! Let me know how these tips help your octave work. Based a bit on your description of your octaves, you might be playing too far into the white keys if you need to "claw" around them. As I watch my own hand play, my main knuckles (the bridge) are usually directly above the key edge or slightly away from the key edge and toward my body. This helps to "de claw" if you will. When we have to navigate between blacks and whites, a turn of the wrist can also help slightly. We can't always approach all octaves from outside the keys, but a small adjustment in that direction, even if not fully outside the keys, can help to allow the last joints in the fingers to be more relaxed. If you'd ever be interested in submitted a video of your octaves for one of my live streams, I'd be more than happy to take a look and share any feedback! That would be a lot easier than guessing what your hands look like based on your description! Once again, thank you!
This is very helpful. I'm working on a piece that has octaves but also chords. My hands are small, and trying to relax between each one is difficult, but these are tips - in particular, that first one - which I believe I can try and accomplish. Thanks for the content, I'm glad I found your channel.
Thanks Charles, really useful advice as always, even though I am nowhere near this level I see that I can still benefit by applying your advice, as a novice I have been keeping my hands stretched on octaves and they tire very quickly so again thanks.
You're welcome! Some viewers of this have gotten scared by the example I use, but truly the principles behind good octave execution can begin to be practiced very early on for many people.
Such a helpful video, thank you! I used to avoid learning pieces which contain octaves, but now I think, I'll try to tackle them again keeping your tips in mind.
Thank you so much, I love your videos and this one in particular is quite helpful. I am undergoing the process of touching up Chopin’s nocturne op. 48 no. 1 and I am always tense and sore after the octaves. I am going to apply this knowledge next time I practice! Thanks again.
@@PianistAcademy1 After watching I ran for the score of Liszt's Mephisto Waltz and found places where I could apply the tips. (There are a lot of them!) I like to mess around with this piece every now and then. I can play a *few* (*very* few) measures up to tempo. 😆😆😆
So interesting how in almost all fields, the circle or the wheel seems to be at the core, from the invention of the bike to personality analisis, to climate cycles etc...if we would integrate this `circular movement`, variety, or constant change between tension and release in our daily lives and society, this world would be a better place. When spoken about the benefit of the arts, especially music, I feel this notion of circular movement could help us in so many ways, at the political, economical, natural and social level...This `jagged position` indeed is a way to describe how I feel our world currently is run, and how we sometimes live our unhealthy lives` nowadays.... (trying to) play(ing) music well can make you aware of all these things in life as well...Great things are seen in small things, and small things are seen in great things......
These tips all still apply! You also might benefit from playing a bit closer to the edge of the keys if you aren't already. Just don't let your bridge collapse as many smaller-handed pianists do!
very nice addition the last performance part, i'd love to see and hear more of this in future videos also! regarding the video there's something that has been bugging me for some time, every time i see videos like this that explain some piece of technique, it always starts nice and slow, and the movements you need to do are clear and visible, but as you go faster and faster those same movements are not so clear and visible anymore, unless maybe at the end of a group of notes, so in this case for octaves for example, when you start going real fast, in between group of notes, do you still do the "hit and realease" thing but it's so fast that you can't notice or do you do it only at the beginning and end of a group of notes?
Thanks! I'll see where I can continue to feature little bits of performance in! About the movements and speed: the idea with a lot of technique building is that we go slowly at the beginning and exaggerate motions to help program the mind and the muscles into what they should be doing. The end goal is that all of the little things we program in still exist, even if in minute forms, at the final performance tempo. So we program in a variety of movements, slowly reinforcing them. And yes, at the final tempo I play in this video you can no longer "see" the relaxing between each strike and in fact, I'm no longer thinking about it either, but they still exist. Think about it like programming your brain and muscles to learn to do something automatically/innately. Over lots of practice and reinforcement, those motions no longer need conscious thought. I'll also say that I need to use ALL of these tips for each octave passage in each different piece I play. While I get from point A to B more quickly because the baseline is already there, I still need to lay this same foundation for every different passage in my practice. Lastly, if the motions weren't built in, I'd 1) not be able to play close to that final performance tempo, 2) would be missing the ability to create phrase and dynamic changes within the passage, and 3) I would have so much tension in the forearm that I wouldn't have been able to shoot this video down in a single take, playing the passage repeatedly. When I teach these things to in-person students, I usually expect 6 months to a year of practice of them (at around 2 hours per day) to achieve 'minimal' mastery of the technique. Years of consistent practice to achieve full mastery where you can identify for yourself what tip to use to solve your current issue. So videos like this can be great in that they introduce some really high level techniques and ideas, yet they can be misleading in the sense that none of this is an 'overnight' fix... it takes a lot of consistent work to fully utilize the ideas.
i personally have this issue where my left wrist tenses up when playing octaves that are higher up on the keyboard, this is caused by my wrist being locked up in an awkward horizontal angle to still have my hand in a normal position. this wrist angle when playing octaves is causing the tension any advice on what would prevent this?
My first thought, without actually being able to see what's going on, is: are you leaning with your full upper body to the right when needing to play higher octaves and notes? Leaning prevents almost all of that awkward horizontal wrist position you mention. For example, when playing the passage I demonstrated here, my 'neutral' body position is centered around the B below middle C. When I begin the passage, I lean slightly LEFT and am centered on the G below middle C. As the passage continues, I slowly lean to the right, and by the time I finish the final double C# octaves up high, my entire body is now centered on C#5/the upper C# the left hand plays. That's 2.5 octaves of change from the lowest point of the passage to the highest, simply in where the upper body is aligned with the keyboard horizontally. The goal with this is to keep your wrists from needing to turn horizontally much, if at all, during a passage. Let me know if that helps! Or if you are already leaning, I'll see what else I can come up with!
Thanks for watching, Wayne! Yes, the piece I demonstrate with here is advanced, but you could apply just one of these concepts to your own octaves in your own pieces to start with. They can all apply to any piece at any level, including taking you all the way into advanced work!
tension, yes. Drinking coffee makes me play faster and more concentrated but it also makes me ignore feeling of tension (and pain)...Coffee is a strange animal. A little is good, too much will make me go beyong my physical limits. If I drink a lot, I get imflammatory reactions in my body. I noticed it has painkilling properties ! And it does things with your mood levels too. I m trying to quit but its hard....
Thank you very much for making a whole video to answer my question, hopefully, this will be helpful to others as well!
Most definitely, thanks for such a great and inspiring question! And thanks for the Super Thanks! I really appreciate it!
I've always been tense even at the thought of playing octaves😂. So thanks very much for these tips. I shall try to apply them at my modest level to break through the psychological wall of octave playing.
I will do my utmost to relax and smooth things out.
Thank you.
Let us know how it goes! Incremental improvements one week at a time lead to wonderful playing in the long run :-)
love the tips and the camera angle to show the wrist angles
Thanks, recover!
You have a great way of making the sort of video where players of most any level can learn something, even beginners like me. I enjoyed the performance too. Thank you.
Thanks! And I hope you find the Burgmuller courses you are diving into very helpful!
116 is pretty thrilling ... well done! Very helpful tips, thank you.
My pleasure, thanks so much for watching!
Thanks from Porto Alegre, Brazil! :D
Thanks for watching, Juliano! I hope the tips were helpful!
Very helpful. Also, the lighting on this video is quite nice. Many thanks!
Thanks for watching, Reba! I’m glad the tips were helpful!
I m a beginner and even for me this is very usefull!
Thank you very very very much for this Video. I also love your arrangements and I bought a lot of them.❤😊
Thanks so much for watching, and I'm so glad to hear you enjoy playing my arrangements! I hope you'll share some videos of yourself performing them sometime as well!
Charles-hi! As I began the “Scales in Octaves” exercise in Hanon (#53), I noticed that I have to “force flatten” my hands to securely hit the black keys (typically with my first and fifth fingers at slight diagonals relative to the keys). Then, to land the white key octaves, my finger tips need to slightly “claw down”, again for precision. Needless to say, as I move through the scales, a certain tension sets in, so this guidance is super helpful. I love that you picked this Polonaise rather than the “octave monster” in the Heroic Polonaise- not that I don’t love it, I do- it has just been covered many times. I know how much time and effort you put in to making these videos for all of us, so I’m adding a small gesture of appreciation. ☺️ I really think you’re so great, and you give so much- thank you! (PS- I have been commenting more frequently because I have been told that it helps “the algorithm” push the video to others.)
Chris, first off, a HUGE thank you for this! I'm very very grateful!
Let me know how these tips help your octave work. Based a bit on your description of your octaves, you might be playing too far into the white keys if you need to "claw" around them. As I watch my own hand play, my main knuckles (the bridge) are usually directly above the key edge or slightly away from the key edge and toward my body. This helps to "de claw" if you will. When we have to navigate between blacks and whites, a turn of the wrist can also help slightly. We can't always approach all octaves from outside the keys, but a small adjustment in that direction, even if not fully outside the keys, can help to allow the last joints in the fingers to be more relaxed.
If you'd ever be interested in submitted a video of your octaves for one of my live streams, I'd be more than happy to take a look and share any feedback! That would be a lot easier than guessing what your hands look like based on your description!
Once again, thank you!
This is very helpful. I'm working on a piece that has octaves but also chords. My hands are small, and trying to relax between each one is difficult, but these are tips - in particular, that first one - which I believe I can try and accomplish. Thanks for the content, I'm glad I found your channel.
I hope this helps you over the course of your practice :-). Thanks for watching!
Thanks Charles, really useful advice as always, even though I am nowhere near this level I see that I can still benefit by applying your advice, as a novice I have been keeping my hands stretched on octaves and they tire very quickly so again thanks.
You're welcome! Some viewers of this have gotten scared by the example I use, but truly the principles behind good octave execution can begin to be practiced very early on for many people.
Such a helpful video, thank you! I used to avoid learning pieces which contain octaves, but now I think, I'll try to tackle them again keeping your tips in mind.
Yay! Love it. Always feel free to revisit or ask any questions on the live stream if they come up!
Great tutorial. Thank you.👍
Thanks so much for watching! I'm glad it was helpful!
Thank you so much, I love your videos and this one in particular is quite helpful. I am undergoing the process of touching up Chopin’s nocturne op. 48 no. 1 and I am always tense and sore after the octaves. I am going to apply this knowledge next time I practice! Thanks again.
Brilliant! I hope these tips prove helpful for you both on day one and after years of practice as well! And thanks so much for the super :-)
Thanks! Always great content.
Thanks for checking this out, Jose!
Oh and thanks for the Super! I missed it when I wrote the previous reply. I really appreciate it!!!
@@PianistAcademy1 After watching I ran for the score of Liszt's Mephisto Waltz and found places where I could apply the tips. (There are a lot of them!) I like to mess around with this piece every now and then. I can play a *few* (*very* few) measures up to tempo. 😆😆😆
@@jowr2000 oh totally! Love it. I hope the tips help!
So interesting how in almost all fields, the circle or the wheel seems to be at the core, from the invention of the bike to personality analisis, to climate cycles etc...if we would integrate this `circular movement`, variety, or constant change between tension and release in our daily lives and society, this world would be a better place. When spoken about the benefit of the arts, especially music, I feel this notion of circular movement could help us in so many ways, at the political, economical, natural and social level...This `jagged position` indeed is a way to describe how I feel our world currently is run, and how we sometimes live our unhealthy lives` nowadays.... (trying to) play(ing) music well can make you aware of all these things in life as well...Great things are seen in small things, and small things are seen in great things......
Great tutorial! Thank you.
You are welcome, Cora-Lill! I’m glad you found it helpful!
What to do if I can barely reach a 9th? My hands have to stretch fully to play octaves.
These tips all still apply! You also might benefit from playing a bit closer to the edge of the keys if you aren't already. Just don't let your bridge collapse as many smaller-handed pianists do!
@@PianistAcademy1 Thanks. I do play at the edges of the keys whenever possible.
very nice addition the last performance part, i'd love to see and hear more of this in future videos also!
regarding the video there's something that has been bugging me for some time, every time i see videos like this that explain some piece of technique, it always starts nice and slow, and the movements you need to do are clear and visible, but as you go faster and faster those same movements are not so clear and visible anymore, unless maybe at the end of a group of notes, so in this case for octaves for example, when you start going real fast, in between group of notes, do you still do the "hit and realease" thing but it's so fast that you can't notice or do you do it only at the beginning and end of a group of notes?
Thanks! I'll see where I can continue to feature little bits of performance in!
About the movements and speed: the idea with a lot of technique building is that we go slowly at the beginning and exaggerate motions to help program the mind and the muscles into what they should be doing. The end goal is that all of the little things we program in still exist, even if in minute forms, at the final performance tempo. So we program in a variety of movements, slowly reinforcing them. And yes, at the final tempo I play in this video you can no longer "see" the relaxing between each strike and in fact, I'm no longer thinking about it either, but they still exist. Think about it like programming your brain and muscles to learn to do something automatically/innately. Over lots of practice and reinforcement, those motions no longer need conscious thought. I'll also say that I need to use ALL of these tips for each octave passage in each different piece I play. While I get from point A to B more quickly because the baseline is already there, I still need to lay this same foundation for every different passage in my practice.
Lastly, if the motions weren't built in, I'd 1) not be able to play close to that final performance tempo, 2) would be missing the ability to create phrase and dynamic changes within the passage, and 3) I would have so much tension in the forearm that I wouldn't have been able to shoot this video down in a single take, playing the passage repeatedly. When I teach these things to in-person students, I usually expect 6 months to a year of practice of them (at around 2 hours per day) to achieve 'minimal' mastery of the technique. Years of consistent practice to achieve full mastery where you can identify for yourself what tip to use to solve your current issue. So videos like this can be great in that they introduce some really high level techniques and ideas, yet they can be misleading in the sense that none of this is an 'overnight' fix... it takes a lot of consistent work to fully utilize the ideas.
i personally have this issue where my left wrist tenses up when playing octaves that are higher up on the keyboard, this is caused by my wrist being locked up in an awkward horizontal angle to still have my hand in a normal position. this wrist angle when playing octaves is causing the tension
any advice on what would prevent this?
My first thought, without actually being able to see what's going on, is: are you leaning with your full upper body to the right when needing to play higher octaves and notes? Leaning prevents almost all of that awkward horizontal wrist position you mention. For example, when playing the passage I demonstrated here, my 'neutral' body position is centered around the B below middle C. When I begin the passage, I lean slightly LEFT and am centered on the G below middle C. As the passage continues, I slowly lean to the right, and by the time I finish the final double C# octaves up high, my entire body is now centered on C#5/the upper C# the left hand plays. That's 2.5 octaves of change from the lowest point of the passage to the highest, simply in where the upper body is aligned with the keyboard horizontally.
The goal with this is to keep your wrists from needing to turn horizontally much, if at all, during a passage.
Let me know if that helps! Or if you are already leaning, I'll see what else I can come up with!
@@PianistAcademy1 thanks a lot! will be paying more attention to this
Thanks for sharing but WAY above my skill level right now.
Thanks for watching, Wayne! Yes, the piece I demonstrate with here is advanced, but you could apply just one of these concepts to your own octaves in your own pieces to start with. They can all apply to any piece at any level, including taking you all the way into advanced work!
@@PianistAcademy1 That's a very good point. Thankyou.
tension, yes. Drinking coffee makes me play faster and more concentrated but it also makes me ignore feeling of tension (and pain)...Coffee is a strange animal. A little is good, too much will make me go beyong my physical limits. If I drink a lot, I get imflammatory reactions in my body. I noticed it has painkilling properties ! And it does things with your mood levels too. I m trying to quit but its hard....
I'm absolutely a coffee addict haha. 3 to 5 cups a day usually!