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Yah, me too, you were not very clear here what you think about them. I thought I understood what you were saying,m but maybe not? So those big lakes, who should do that Scanning, and what do you expect them to find there?
The dimensions in royal fingers is an important point. No forger in the 60s and 70s would have been making forgeries for tourists, in precise Egyptian units. And then having done so (at great expense), forget to tell anyone about it. Would that not be a selling point? Clearly, these are ancient vases, made in ancient units of measure. With some unknown technology. Ralph Ellis
Yes! I just watched this podcast and I'm so grateful for the universe that you made this video. You are part of the group of people I follow that are out there figuring this stuff out. Thank you!
If you watch all unchartedX videos on the subject, I can't remember exactly which one it was. But they show different clear and distinguishable marks on the inside, the outside and the areas between and around the bull nose. The ares directly around the handles seem to be milled while the rest has turning marks. On a couple of the pieces anyway. They don't all have any obvious marks.
They can’t be fully turned on a lapidary lathe because of the protruding handles yet the continuous curvature of the surface between them appears perfect.
Searching for modern manufacturers and it looks like granite vases are common for cemeteries now. For example there’s a company Mainely Urns & Memorials that sells something similar, though not as thin-walled. Would be great if you guys would have modern stone vase manufacturers on your podcast. Maybe visit their manufacturing facility, see how difficult it is (w/ modern tooling) to produce these vases.
I agree, I've been thinking about why they need to spin and why they are made of some of the hardest material... maybe they were used to collect some kind of chemical inside that couldn't be still like cement trucks
You might also like to check out the giant stone jars found in Indonesia, Laos and India. Some are over 10 feet tall. They are said to have been made by giants. Some are made of granite.
I've known of this enigma for well over a decade now. My hobby is wood turning. The long neck versions of these stone vessels are the ones that would be the most difficult to create! These are the ones that deserve the most attention. Another anomaly about these stone vessels! Where are all the lids??
@candui7278 , Some were found with mud stoppers as lids. None found with stone lids. Over 40,000 stone bowls of various types. No stone lids. The handles are most difficult to ascertain the method of production, without something akin to a CNC machine. Very perplexing!
Speaking as a machinist, this is very puzzling. Granite would need to be ground to get the finish seen here, and the thinness and precision. Cutting forces would crack it if a single point tool was used. What is especially perplexing is how it could be held to get the parallelism. A thorough study of the bases might give some clues there. A simple lathe wouldn't do this. It's hard to see past a CNC type machine where the vase is stationary and the tooling revolves. The very nature of the material limits the methods available, not to mention the available technology of the time. A fake would seem to be the most rational explanation, but if they are genuinely ancient there is a real problem here. Removing the waste material can possibly be accounted for, but holding it to achieve that is the real issue.
"A fake would seem to be the most rational explanation", yes indeed. So where did the people that own them say they came from? Because it is just a waste of everyone's time discussing it and surmising, if there is no 100% unassailable evidence that these are actual archaeological artefacts and not modern products.
Love the concept of finding all the sights we can think of that could have thrived geologically - now set up the LiDAR and let’s go! Also let’s also have a map of the most upturned locations of the younger dryas - where exactly where the flood waters located and what could they have descimated - then let’s live it up with sights
Consider me obsessed with ancient history! Thanks for the content. Good luck making the jump to full time RUclips. If you keep making this high quality content on a regular basis, I have no doubt you will become wildly successful.... The crossover podcasts with other channels making ancient history content (Matt, Ben, Russ & Kyle, Jahanna, etc.) are also enjoyable and seem like good way to grow your channel. Soon enough you'll be on Rogan's show!
The dimensions in royal fingers is an important point. No forger in the 60s and 70s would have been making forgeries for tourists, in precise Egyptian units. And then having done so (at great expense), forget to tell anyone about it. Would that not be a selling point? Clearly, these are ancient vases, made in ancient units of measure. With some unknown technology. Ralph Ellis
I have to agree Ralph. I have been doing an in depth study of ancient units over the last seven years under the label of forensic archaeomathology. I did a breakdown of Ben Van Kerkwyk’s first vase scans into ancient units and every dimension was within a close tolerance of a practical value ancient unit, and every separate dimension produced appropriate ratios to the other dimensions. Regardless of what tolerances it exhibited after grinding and polishing such a challenging material, the integrative design of the vase which preceded the manufacture, was absolutely based on ancient units. I believe my forensic math could determine the provenance of any of these vases. I showed my work to Ben at the 2023 Cosmic Summit, and though we talked about following up, we have not yet done so.
The grinding and polishing is important, because enough fat must be left on the surface, to polish down to the precise measurement. I did a talk on the Matt Beall show about these measurements. R
We don’t know the motivation of 60s and 70s forgers. Perhaps they used the exact measurements as a selling point when the were peddling them to tourists, perhaps not. We don’t know that either. What’s certain is that forgers will make fake products if there is a profit to be made. So the provenance of any particular vase is important. Especially if its measurements are going to be widely circulated and relied upon as ‘proof’ of ancient technology. 20:03 ‘Smelling’ or ‘feeling’ how old these vases doesn’t prove their age either. How does something smell ‘5,000 years old’ anyway? 17:41 Their weight doesn’t prove their age either. 60s and 70s forgers were not barred from producing heavy artefacts either.
@@ianh3365 The ancient units and ratios found in that vase were not known in the 60’s. They are not publicly known even now! It is not a fake, along with the other 30,000 real ones in Egypt
@@TaoistDragons well that explains why the tourists weren’t told about the measurements of any fakes made in the 60s, 70s or subsequently, then. Broadly copying the dimensions of an original was not barred to any forgers. What would be interesting is if the known original vases were scanned, and if two can be shown to have identical measurements. And then many more than two. The ability to smell the age, or weigh the age, of a stone artefact remains unproven.
Something crazy to think about is that there is less time between Cleopatra and our time now than Cleopatra and the Great Pyramid. That is mindboggling.
The problem with the lathe theory is the "handles" would be difficult to reproduce on a lathe today. Maybe a combination of lathe and mill, all-in-one tools? Some sort of 5 axis lathe? Maybe they had CNC machines before the Egyptians arrived.
did you see the recent ship wreck found in near perfect condition 50 miles off the coast? I think they said it's 3,500bc? maybe just 3500 years total. I just saw a news article on it yesterday. They're bringing up pottery with submersible robots?
These diorite vases are documented in ~1962 at least this the document Matt Beall showed in short reel on his channel. Apollo project started 1961 meaning that we already had the technology to make nano level precision parts for space crafts. And in fact the first one of millionth of an inch precision lathe was showcased in at the Great London Exhibition in 1851. Or in other word we have lathes many times more precise than 1/1000 of an inch since 173 years. I want these vases to be ancient as these documents claim to be or may be even more ancient made by unknown to us civilization, but my brain tells me that these might be modern knock offs made with modern lathe in the last 100-150 years.
There are thousands of these vases in the Cairo Museum that have impeccable provenance, and these should be scanned as they should therefore not show anywhere near this level of precision. Additionally, if you get the lucky opportunity to get access to a tour beneath the Pyramid of Djoser you can literally reach down and pick up pieces of these artifacts. Last point, if someone was faking these they would be losing absurd amounts of money, machining these vases would cost tens of thousands of dollars even today and despite the high price they can fetch on the antiquities market it would not be a profitable endeavor.
20:28 luke, I already mentioned it on Danny's podcast, but here you just said it even more succintly - if you can feel the (minuscule, yet palpable) dirt and grime on the ancient vase, surely that could influence the measurements, when we're talking about the deviation being just 1/50th of the human hair, do you realize that? I think that even by holding one in bare hands can add a layer of fat from between the fingertip grooves! Are we sure that Alex Dunn and Nick Sierra, when they measured them, really first cleaned them completely? The results might have been even more amazing!
Love the vids as always Luke you’re THE MAN. Very curious about what your mentor Dr. Barnhart thinks about them. Completely understandable that it’s not his primary area of study, but to deny how special these artifacts are regardless has to be considered surely.
But you just have to address the math in regards to certain esoteric symbology such as the flower of life the integers of circles used to create the different circumferences ....and Im pretty sure I heard that the internal measurements when tested resonate sound wise at the same frequency as light in a vacuum were skirting round these really significant finds .
Once upon a time the Sahara Desert was green and full of life and other kingdoms, is it possible that these Vases were brought to Egypt through trades?
To me the biggest puzzle is why were there 40,000 of them, many broken, and still in Egypt. Like it's not as though they were selling them overseas (or is it?)
The easiest way to counter anyone who does not appreciate how important the vases are and downplays them is the following sentence: The precision needed to create these objects is greater than that we use today to make the majority of the components within car and jet engines. These are amongst the earliest items in Egypt, found within pre-dynastic burials. Consider the amount of wear and tear these objects would have had during that time frame, yet they still show those level of precision. So undoubtedly they would have been even more precise when they were first created. Unless their culture put vases as the topmost thing of importance, this quickly leads to showing that they had advanced tech. Which in turn helps points at how the moving of such large blocks was done by tech and not simply using more and more man power with ropes. The importance and significance of the vases cannot be overstated and anyone who dismisses them either hasn't gone into them or they are a shill for selling tourist tickets to museums that have to stick to a certain narrative due to politics being involved in their funding.
All true. I have a major issue suggesting someone used 800-ton stones to build anything. Why? It would be nuts at any time in history...UNLESS it was easy. Why mm accuracy on a 10m high face? No one can even see 10mm symmetry.
@@dougcard5241 _" I have a major issue suggesting someone used 800-ton stones to build anything. Why? It would be nuts at any time in history...UNLESS it was easy"_ If it was easy for them then 800 ton blocks would be everywhere. 800 ton blocks are extremely rare.
@@Leeside999 LOL They are not extremely rare. Outside the trilithon they don't exist. Now attempt to show where ANY 100+ ton stone has been used in the last 1500 years. Get a clue when you discover I know far more than you. Far Far more. Modern man can barely move a 300 ton stone. It takes about 50 axels
@@dougcard5241 As I said, they are extremely rare. You said it must have been easy. I pointed out that because they are extremely rare, then clearly it wasn't easy. _"Now attempt to show where ANY 100+ ton stone has been used in the last 1500 years"_ Mussolini obelisk. _"Modern man can barely move a 300 ton stone. It takes about 50 axels"_ Depends what method you employ. If you drag it on wooden rollers then you don't need 50 axels. _"Get a clue when you discover I know far more than you. Far Far more."_ Apparently not.
@@Leeside999 Everything in that post is ridiculous and clueless. What was the obelisk used to construct? Don't answer again if you can't get a clue and you dont have an intelligent answer. Wooden rollers on what raod? lol Give the exact answer if you can. 1200 tons would destroy any wooden rollers on a stone road if not completely smooth.
You should do a video on an ancient "operation paperclip". You eluded to it with the Roman's gaining knowledge after the invasion of Egypt but begs You to wonder what else happened in history...
it's quite possible that they're a project handed down from generation to the next to contribute to the survival of their kin bc of the difficulty storing foodstuffs etc,, just a thought
Cool. Thanks for keeping our minds whirring!!!! You know, it's going to be rubbish if we ever find out how they did these things. I'll be gutted if it's a hoax!! XXX
Luke, now that you've made a couple of videos on Egypt lately I wanted to ask for your opinion on David Rohl's New Chronology? He uses the Hebrew Bible as a time marker and uses the way their names are written to re-date Egyptian kings of the 19th through 25th Dynasties. One of the things he proposes is that Shishaq, king of Egypt, from the Bible is actually Ramesses II. Personally I buy Rohl's theory. I'm not sure how well researched you are on the topic, but I'd love to see your view on it.
Have you not seen UnchartedX video on the precision and coherence? Even a properly geared steel lathe with corundum drill bits isn’t sufficient to recreate the features present in the scanned vases.
When you go to Egypt luke, please please link up with Geoffrey drum from the land of chem youtube channel. Not to parrot someone else's work but to gain inside on so many things about what they were doing in egypt. Get a better bird eye view of understanding
If they could get their hands on the vases on Cairo Museum, and if the measurements are showing similar results, ancient Egyptian need bigger platform for engineers. Saqarran Serapeums still haunt me to this day. It's the itch I can not scratch. We need more engineers colab with archaeologist.
We also need archaeologists to better understand that they are literally just a framework for facilitating collaboration. They need to stop being the gatekeepers of things outside of their fields. To get to bottom of what has been happening in Egypt we need geologists, physicists, mathematicians, chemists, stone masons, machinists, anthropologists, linguistics, historians, religious text experts, engineers, and honestly a ton of other fields. Archaeology is woefully incapable of doing anything on it's own, they shouldn't be able to override experts on things they know very little or even nothing about. "But it doesn't fit our models" well your models need updating then folks.
Scanning vases in Cairo is 100% one of the next steps that needs to be taken… problem is, if they feel like this has anything at all to do with Pseudoscience-they will shut it down & not do the scans at all. So the vase research has to be extremely professional
This guy claims he only wants the truth..he could sell his collection and donate the money to the egyptian museum with the the stipulation he gets to scan some vases. All his vases are all oddly nicer than the ones in museums
@@itsnot_stupid_ifitworks The museums would never go for it. Museums around the world will likely make token gestures, drip feeding 1 or 2 here and there every decade or so to create the guise of cooperation and transparency but there's no way in hell they're gonna let any substantial volume be scanned. It doesn't even have to be some super evil Bond villain conspiracy where they want to cover things up, simply the money associated with controlling the narrative is enough. They're political and economically motivated entities unfortunately.
@@lukecaverns Engineers of different kinds (metrology, electrical and mechanical and so on) should do the (structured 3D-light and CT) scanning of the vases and the following analyzes of all the data! They have the technical background and the technical understanding needed that archeologists/egyptologists don't have!
Having not watched the video yet, the anser to the title is: provenance. And the level of technology to achieve this level lf precision at the time of being buried in that grave thousands of years ago...
Provenance is one method of ascertaining the antiquity of an object, and though that is the only one accepted by art or artifact dealers of today, lack of provenance can be superseded by preponderance of evidence, and practical logic.
I'm gonna make an educated guess that it's a musical instrument, played by blowing air across the mouth, perhaps with a flute, possibly with an airbag. It could be some type of singing bowl! Maybe by barely touching the lip wet as it's spinning real fast would make it sing some. Wind a string around it and sling it like a top. Try adding different amounts of water to change keys?
The handle bracket looking bosses are weights for balancing, disguised as faux handle brackets, camouflaging their true purpose, in the aesthetics. Dill holes in the handle brackets would not serve its true purpose. Drilling holes through the bosses would only add to the complexity to only further serve the esthetics. It's not worth it. I guess they could have done a small pocket. If they included drill-holes through the bosses in the original art, they would have most likely been cut curved, like the boss, on contour, constrained to the circumference. I'm thinking Plasma Discharge Machining cutting tool with a curved Keyhole shaped sinker bit.
Wait a minute! Those aren't handle brackets at all, nore were they meant to look like 'em. Anyone who plays one of these realised that it's not a container. That's why they don't have lids too. They probably store best with the mouth down, so they don't wobble around. Place it lightly on a surface plate with the tip down. Try to do a controlled spin by pulling a wrapped string with your right hand while holding your finger on your left hand in the jar to steady it while you pull the string. Then pour some water in it while it's spinning, wet your finger in the water, wet the lip and start trying varied amounts of pressure with your finger against the lip to see if you can get it to ring like a crystal class. You could Also try bringing a tuning fork into contact with the balancing-bosses as it's spinning.
You spin them. They are inverted granite bells that spin like a top. First wind an arm's length worth of string around it just under the neck. Then hold it with you left finger's inside the mouth and then pull the string with your right hand to make it spin. Pour water in, wet your finger and drag is across the lip to create the vibration that rings the bell. My guess is that it will spin for a long time because they are so heavy and no friction. Spin on granite. These are not containers. They have no lid. They have no handles. What looks like handle bracket (bosses), across from each other, are weights for balancing. Whoever drilled these later for handles didn't know what it was, or they were trying to hide what it was. Drill hole are not part of the original design. Anyone playing this instrument would know they are balancing weights, not handle brackets. I'd call them nubs. I wonder if they have a healing vibration. I imagine they do. Singing bowls are especially useful for meditation. Some have sacred geometry embedded in the shape; a time capsule of advanced technology. My best guess is that they came through the ice ageS. They could have and it's the best chance for technology like that to have existed. Imagine a world where people lived an average age of 1,000 years, along beside others who also live 1k yrs in a society that developed its technology together for thousands of generation. That is a whole lot more likely type of place to find the technology and market to have engineered and cut these stones. I suspect they used Plasma Discharge Machining. It would also easily explain the polished looking finish.
I'm having second thoughts about the water. Maybe it's more likely that you would use a wand like with any other singing bowl. You could also use the wand to steady the bell as you spin it with a wound string around the neck. The stones could last for eons but wooden mallets would not.
Luke, I think you should compare the ones they measured with the one in museums, such as the British Museum. Although they look very similar, notice that the handles are very different. And the ones in the museum are straight or curved in the opposite direction. I don’t think the ones measured are 5000+ years old. The ones in the museum are, and although impressive and very symmetrical when looked at, they need to be measured for us to be certain.
Absolutely. There are thousands of these vases in the possession of the Egyptian Ministry of Antiquity. I wholeheartedly agree that these vases (which have impeccable provenance in the case of the museum pieces) should be structured-light scanned. Obviously they would not show anywhere near the level of precision as these modern fakes and would put the whole argument to bed. Why won’t the Ministry of Antiquities do this? Your guess is as good as mine….
Did the vases have anything to do with the large scale depopulation of nearly the entire Nile River Valley from 14-5.5 ka or the heavy metal spikes seen in the Nile Delta deposits of 14 ka +/-? I think the contents of these receptacles have everything to do with these tidbits. Thanks to G Drumm for leading me towards this discovery.
Even if they were made with manufactured stone, they are still extremely well made and accurate. And it's not like they had a mould and replicated hundreds in that style, every one is unique and precise. Another thing that is never talked about .... how did they work when the sun went down. Every structure everywhere in the ancient world, there is no black soot an the walls or ceiling. Did they have LED Lights hooked up to Baghdad Batteries or carry around those 12 foot light bulbs ? I could create a liquid in the garage that will glow, but it won't light up the room to work by.
Academia has been avoiding advanced machining for decades.Especially those in Egyptology. Petrie couldn’t even explain some of the items he documented with what was modern day measuring tech in his day.
Luke Caverns x Matt Beall content will ALWAYS get a click from me. I was listening to the Grimerica episode with you as their guest yesterday when I was at work. Was a great listen. Keep going Mr. Caverns, you da man!!!
Considering the fact that some of there ancient vases have been found in graves10K to 12K years old, shouldn't we be exploring more intently ithe Green Sahara period , and west of the Nile? My research into archeological papers regarding this period seem to have discovered very little about any potential civilization(s) that may have thrived in the area. I get the impression that much like the view of the Amazon in recent decades that nobody of importance lived there. I see this as a potential new place of interest for archeological exploration. Perhaps that would be a good episode...
The Nile River Valley was abandoned from 14 ka until 5.5 ka. I wonder why. Megaflooding? No evidence of that whatsoever. Dry river? Nope. Disease? For 8.5 thousand years? Contaminated water? Check MEDIBA core samples for evidence of this.
Thanks for the vid, Luke! One thing these vases help prove to me, the people who created them had no issue working stone precisely, at any scale. The jars fit nicely with the highly polished stonework found elsewhere throught Egypt. The statues, pillars, "boxes", entire temples, and now these jars, they all show high levels of "exact" symmetry, and incredible polish in the stones' faces, still mirror-sleek. Some of the jars could be thimbles, while the granite blocks reach tens to hundreds of tons, yet they all show a certain precision + polish that's just mind-boggling.. And then that it's a similar story all over the world, really, that there were many people working with stone with this level of familiarity.. Just the tip of the iceburg of something big, and i'd wager everything on that.
Make sure to research the topic of the “highly precise and polished” boxes because they’re not all that precise with the inside cuts and polishing is not proof of high tech.
@@jrockthecasbah By "highly precise", i mean compared to the tools and skills we attribute to the time periods, and perhaps even our own. They did plenty we'd struggle with, although we are focused on using other materials, overall. And to the polish, the Egyptians in particular (at some point of time) had access to a method of making any stone shine for millennia. I don't know what else to call that but "advanced tech", and it's one that seems to be lost. Now, if it turns out the polygonal masonry in somewhere like Peru once had a similar polish, i wouldn't be surprised. Similarly, India certainly might have some prime examples of polished stone, i don't know though. Just pointing to some of Egypt's stonework with that polish so sleek, you can still see your face in it, despite however many years have passed. And all with symmetry so fine, it'd be tough to carve by hand.
@@dudeguy8686I just didn’t want people to think highly polished stone meant the ancients had “electric tools” because they had a lot of time to do labor intensive tasks. Lookup Sacred Geometry Decoded and he had videos explaining the polishing. I appreciate the symmetry of these monuments and wondered why and how these large stones were moved and built but I need to see more proof of the tools/machines that were used.
If the coffer in the Lahun pyramid is not considered extremely precise, then I’m a bit off on the definition. That box is somewhere beyond incredible. Someone designed a granite box or coffer in ancient units, and manufactured it out of red granite. In pondering the process, it is only reasonable that the most difficult cuts in the block would be made first, which would be hollowing out the cavity into an almost perfectly dimensioned rectangular box with its four, three-plane corners aligned and dimensioned to each other at the edges of the virtually perfectly flat inside floor. This task is practically and functionally, enormously difficult to accomplish. Try conceiving of the method you would approach such a task with. How would you grind the bottom flat, and do so all the way to the amazing tolerance corners? Sawing the outside to produce the ledges would be the next tricky task, but would be easy compared to hollowing out a ton of granite. Additionally, Petrie said the surface wasn’t even polished, but simply ground that finely. Ben Van Kerkwyk’s video on the precision of the Lahun coffee is an excellent inspection of the phenomenal ancient object. If Egyptology really cared about knowing the true past instead of fearing the implications that it may precede their current culture, they would have fully laser scanned this beautiful relic long ago, and questions about whether the ancients obtained such high level precision would be put to rest, producing a plethora of theories on how they were able to do such things in a time we label as “the copper age.”
@@TaoistDragons Well said, and very true! Those granite "boxes" (if you'll pardon the term) really are incredible, and well beyond our current methods of stoneworking. While it might be possible for us to make one, we'd just take the shortcut of cutting out flat slabs for each side to fit together. A similar type of single-piece carved "box" are the "temples" found on Elephantine Island, and dipicted at least at the Dendara/Hathor temple. Though instead of "simply" flat planes, those temples have some beautiful rounded trim following their edges. Both styles are truly masterful examples of the craft, and i'd love to know why there was such an emphasis that single-piece design. Did that have a functional purpose, or was it just a preference born out of the ease and familiarity with which they worked stone?
Is there anywhere that you can view some of these photos from the 10,000+ year old graves with vases in them? I have always suspected they are much older than what they have assume based on where they are found, and I never heard of these tombs before. Also, I am really looking forward to your in-depth video about these vases. They are utterly fascinating.
One of Ben’s vase videos tells the name of the place in Turkey where a stash of these same stone vases were buried in a grave whose sedimentary strata was data to 12,000 years ago. Unfortunately, this place has suffered the fate of being flooded by dam building. Ben does show a picture which I will post here, if I can find my copy of it.
@@TaoistDragons I think you maybe mistaken there. None of these granite vases with the same characteristics have been found in Turkey. As far as I am aware they have only been found in Egypt.
I want to know how the ground down the granite sides of the pyramids. It's got to be the same tech that made these vases. This is something I don't think we're able to do today, actually I'm sure of it. They were cut flat in place, how? I really hope it'll be solved because as an architect, I'd love to see the technique used today, LOL :D
Can anyone explain me what he meant at 23:48? If he leans towards the dynastic egyptians being the creators of those vases, how can the same vases be found in 10000 year old graves? Did I get something wrong?
Are you aware of any duplicated stone vases? If I set up a C&C machine to create something, I'll make several to justify the time spent in programming. The precision of these vases suggests that there was a machining process. Why would they only make one of each type?
Hold on. Wait. Making forgeries would not be as lucrative as being able to cut stone like this period. If you could cut stone like this, that technology would be worth way way way more on the open market than it would be if it was reserved for only making these obscure stone jars. Jars btw that you can't even find for that matter, much less afford to buy.
"Occam's Razor" is hunching to me that.... "rock" must have simply have been much much easier to work with long ago.... Maybe "Rock" went through some sort of a "fossilization" process far in the past AFTER it was worked into all these fantastic objects... And it might have been maybe chalkier and much lighter in the past; I just don't know and not an expert.
You will probably need multiple axes to do it. One axis doesn't really make sense unless the configuration can be changed and re-angled with different parts or attachments, which could be the case.
Yeah precisely. It’s a feature of every vase ever discovered. This lends to the theory that Matt talks about extensively being that these were made on a lathe and then the excess was hand chiseled by the handles because you know… that’s literally what the evidence points towards.
@@aaronriddle9278 What about the offset handles with offset mass for perfect balance? These were designed to turn. They were centrifuge receptacles I suspect. Thorium and Uranium are abundant in Nile Delta black sand deposits.
All vases are unique, no two alike excist. If the olds used machines or other high speed instruments there would be many many the same. There are non. Seems likely they made this with handtools and alot of time
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Omg these vases were in 12000 year old Nubian graves ?? Oh dear...
link doesnt work, neither does the link in the description
I'm very pleased you are taking this seriously.
Looking forward to your longer in-dept video about these vases.
Yah, me too, you were not very clear here what you think about them. I thought I understood what you were saying,m but maybe not? So those big lakes, who should do that Scanning, and what do you expect them to find there?
this guy gets it, he understands both sides of the coin but leans on the facts as one should when discussing these topics, very awesome!
Unlike unchartedX and the like that just trying to sell their trips. With no education in the field they are trying to be experts in.
@@catman8965How so?
The dimensions in royal fingers is an important point.
No forger in the 60s and 70s would have been making forgeries for tourists, in precise Egyptian units.
And then having done so (at great expense), forget to tell anyone about it.
Would that not be a selling point?
Clearly, these are ancient vases, made in ancient units of measure.
With some unknown technology.
Ralph Ellis
@@catman8965You should watch the video before commenting next time.
@@catman8965I could but i doubt you'll have the bandwidth. I'm not the f♡♡l who's commenting after watching 1 minute of the video. 😅
The idea of protected technology makes a lot of sense
I love how much you love it!...keep up the great work and I appreciate you sharing these videos with us!
Luke, are good at what you do.
Your programs continue to improve and today's was captivating.
Just listened to the Earth Ancients podcast. You're getting popular quick.
Stay young pony boy! :)
That was a comliment.
So refreshing. Thanks for existing.
It's a solid theory. After all, proprietary skills and methods are protected and kept secret even in our modern society.
Yes! I just watched this podcast and I'm so grateful for the universe that you made this video. You are part of the group of people I follow that are out there figuring this stuff out. Thank you!
One technical correction that is important to make is that these prove the existence of mills and not lathes due to the handles.
Well another technical correction to make is the distinction between "proof" and "evidence"
If you watch all unchartedX videos on the subject, I can't remember exactly which one it was. But they show different clear and distinguishable marks on the inside, the outside and the areas between and around the bull nose. The ares directly around the handles seem to be milled while the rest has turning marks. On a couple of the pieces anyway. They don't all have any obvious marks.
They can’t be fully turned on a lapidary lathe because of the protruding handles yet the continuous curvature of the surface between them appears perfect.
Wonderful, poetic :-), moment describing feeling and experiencing vases. Love that you tested their smell too!
Searching for modern manufacturers and it looks like granite vases are common for cemeteries now. For example there’s a company Mainely Urns & Memorials that sells something similar, though not as thin-walled. Would be great if you guys would have modern stone vase manufacturers on your podcast. Maybe visit their manufacturing facility, see how difficult it is (w/ modern tooling) to produce these vases.
These were precise for a reason. A form of measurement or they are a tool of some kind for a machine we don't recognize
I agree, I've been thinking about why they need to spin and why they are made of some of the hardest material... maybe they were used to collect some kind of chemical inside that couldn't be still like cement trucks
Those jar thingys are pretty wild.
You might also like to check out the giant stone jars found in Indonesia, Laos and India. Some are over 10 feet tall. They are said to have been made by giants. Some are made of granite.
Very sober and open-minded take, great work
New luke just dropped lets gooooo
I've known of this enigma for well over a decade now. My hobby is wood turning.
The long neck versions of these stone vessels are the ones that would be the most difficult to create! These are the ones that deserve the most attention.
Another anomaly about these stone vessels!
Where are all the lids??
The lids were the attachment, seal, and outflow for the centrifuged isotopes. IE part of the big machine, probably metal.
@candui7278 , Some were found with mud stoppers as lids. None found with stone lids. Over 40,000 stone bowls of various types. No stone lids.
The handles are most difficult to ascertain the method of production, without something akin to a CNC machine. Very perplexing!
Speaking as a machinist, this is very puzzling. Granite would need to be ground to get the finish seen here, and the thinness and precision. Cutting forces would crack it if a single point tool was used. What is especially perplexing is how it could be held to get the parallelism. A thorough study of the bases might give some clues there. A simple lathe wouldn't do this. It's hard to see past a CNC type machine where the vase is stationary and the tooling revolves. The very nature of the material limits the methods available, not to mention the available technology of the time. A fake would seem to be the most rational explanation, but if they are genuinely ancient there is a real problem here. Removing the waste material can possibly be accounted for, but holding it to achieve that is the real issue.
"A fake would seem to be the most rational explanation", yes indeed. So where did the people that own them say they came from? Because it is just a waste of everyone's time discussing it and surmising, if there is no 100% unassailable evidence that these are actual archaeological artefacts and not modern products.
@PortAntissues are they authentic, that's the question that needs answering.
Yo, PortAntissue, why would a dude faking these vases go through all the trouble of making them super precise and thin? It doesn't make sense, man.
Matt and Luke are awesome
Love the concept of finding all the sights we can think of that could have thrived geologically - now set up the LiDAR and let’s go! Also let’s also have a map of the most upturned locations of the younger dryas - where exactly where the flood waters located and what could they have descimated - then let’s live it up with sights
Consider me obsessed with ancient history! Thanks for the content. Good luck making the jump to full time RUclips. If you keep making this high quality content on a regular basis, I have no doubt you will become wildly successful.... The crossover podcasts with other channels making ancient history content (Matt, Ben, Russ & Kyle, Jahanna, etc.) are also enjoyable and seem like good way to grow your channel. Soon enough you'll be on Rogan's show!
Good job Luke, always watch. Good work looking forward to the next.
The dimensions in royal fingers is an important point.
No forger in the 60s and 70s would have been making forgeries for tourists, in precise Egyptian units.
And then having done so (at great expense), forget to tell anyone about it.
Would that not be a selling point?
Clearly, these are ancient vases, made in ancient units of measure.
With some unknown technology.
Ralph Ellis
I have to agree Ralph. I have been doing an in depth study of ancient units over the last seven years under the label of forensic archaeomathology. I did a breakdown of Ben Van Kerkwyk’s first vase scans into ancient units and every dimension was within a close tolerance of a practical value ancient unit, and every separate dimension produced appropriate ratios to the other dimensions. Regardless of what tolerances it exhibited after grinding and polishing such a challenging material, the integrative design of the vase which preceded the manufacture, was absolutely based on ancient units. I believe my forensic math could determine the provenance of any of these vases. I showed my work to Ben at the 2023 Cosmic Summit, and though we talked about following up, we have not yet done so.
The grinding and polishing is important, because enough fat must be left on the surface, to polish down to the precise measurement.
I did a talk on the Matt Beall show about these measurements.
R
We don’t know the motivation of 60s and 70s forgers. Perhaps they used the exact measurements as a selling point when the were peddling them to tourists, perhaps not. We don’t know that either.
What’s certain is that forgers will make fake products if there is a profit to be made. So the provenance of any particular vase is important. Especially if its measurements are going to be widely circulated and relied upon as ‘proof’ of ancient technology.
20:03 ‘Smelling’ or ‘feeling’ how old these vases doesn’t prove their age either. How does something smell ‘5,000 years old’ anyway?
17:41 Their weight doesn’t prove their age either. 60s and 70s forgers were not barred from producing heavy artefacts either.
@@ianh3365 The ancient units and ratios found in that vase were not known in the 60’s. They are not publicly known even now! It is not a fake, along with the other 30,000 real ones in Egypt
@@TaoistDragons well that explains why the tourists weren’t told about the measurements of any fakes made in the 60s, 70s or subsequently, then. Broadly copying the dimensions of an original was not barred to any forgers. What would be interesting is if the known original vases were scanned, and if two can be shown to have identical measurements. And then many more than two.
The ability to smell the age, or weigh the age, of a stone artefact remains unproven.
Great Video Luke. Thankyou
Something crazy to think about is that there is less time between Cleopatra and our time now than Cleopatra and the Great Pyramid. That is mindboggling.
The problem with the lathe theory is the "handles" would be difficult to reproduce on a lathe today. Maybe a combination of lathe and mill, all-in-one tools? Some sort of 5 axis lathe? Maybe they had CNC machines before the Egyptians arrived.
did you see the recent ship wreck found in near perfect condition 50 miles off the coast? I think they said it's 3,500bc? maybe just 3500 years total. I just saw a news article on it yesterday. They're bringing up pottery with submersible robots?
Oooh, that'll be something to keep an eye on. Practically the same way we found the antikythera mechanism, after all.
Maybe this is what the shist disk was used for… 🤷♂️
These diorite vases are documented in ~1962 at least this the document Matt Beall showed in short reel on his channel. Apollo project started 1961 meaning that we already had the technology to make nano level precision parts for space crafts. And in fact the first one of millionth of an inch precision lathe was showcased in at the Great London Exhibition in 1851. Or in other word we have lathes many times more precise than 1/1000 of an inch since 173 years.
I want these vases to be ancient as these documents claim to be or may be even more ancient made by unknown to us civilization, but my brain tells me that these might be modern knock offs made with modern lathe in the last 100-150 years.
There are thousands of these vases in the Cairo Museum that have impeccable provenance, and these should be scanned as they should therefore not show anywhere near this level of precision. Additionally, if you get the lucky opportunity to get access to a tour beneath the Pyramid of Djoser you can literally reach down and pick up pieces of these artifacts. Last point, if someone was faking these they would be losing absurd amounts of money, machining these vases would cost tens of thousands of dollars even today and despite the high price they can fetch on the antiquities market it would not be a profitable endeavor.
Could they have been using arsenical bronze?
Love the set up!
20:28 luke, I already mentioned it on Danny's podcast, but here you just said it even more succintly - if you can feel the (minuscule, yet palpable) dirt and grime on the ancient vase, surely that could influence the measurements, when we're talking about the deviation being just 1/50th of the human hair, do you realize that?
I think that even by holding one in bare hands can add a layer of fat from between the fingertip grooves!
Are we sure that Alex Dunn and Nick Sierra, when they measured them, really first cleaned them completely? The results might have been even more amazing!
Could it be the vases are rounded on the bottom so that they stack on top of each other & seal or cover the one bellow?
Love the vids as always Luke you’re THE MAN. Very curious about what your mentor Dr. Barnhart thinks about them. Completely understandable that it’s not his primary area of study, but to deny how special these artifacts are regardless has to be considered surely.
Edwin Barnhart ? In what way "mentor"?
❤ ancient Egypt history!🎉
But you just have to address the math in regards to certain esoteric symbology such as the flower of life the integers of circles used to create the different circumferences ....and Im pretty sure I heard that the internal measurements when tested resonate sound wise at the same frequency as light in a vacuum were skirting round these really significant finds .
Once upon a time the Sahara Desert was green and full of life and other kingdoms, is it possible that these Vases were brought to Egypt through trades?
This is the attitude mainstream archeology should have instead of the snobbery.
I think the likelihood of there being other intricate machines like the Antikythera mechanism is very high. And probably many more mechanised tools.
To me the biggest puzzle is why were there 40,000 of them, many broken, and still in Egypt. Like it's not as though they were selling them overseas (or is it?)
look into the very fine Nubian A Culture black-topped Pottery 5600 years ago.
Aren't those clay? These are granite.
The easiest way to counter anyone who does not appreciate how important the vases are and downplays them is the following sentence: The precision needed to create these objects is greater than that we use today to make the majority of the components within car and jet engines. These are amongst the earliest items in Egypt, found within pre-dynastic burials. Consider the amount of wear and tear these objects would have had during that time frame, yet they still show those level of precision. So undoubtedly they would have been even more precise when they were first created.
Unless their culture put vases as the topmost thing of importance, this quickly leads to showing that they had advanced tech. Which in turn helps points at how the moving of such large blocks was done by tech and not simply using more and more man power with ropes.
The importance and significance of the vases cannot be overstated and anyone who dismisses them either hasn't gone into them or they are a shill for selling tourist tickets to museums that have to stick to a certain narrative due to politics being involved in their funding.
All true. I have a major issue suggesting someone used 800-ton stones to build anything. Why? It would be nuts at any time in history...UNLESS it was easy. Why mm accuracy on a 10m high face? No one can even see 10mm symmetry.
@@dougcard5241 _" I have a major issue suggesting someone used 800-ton stones to build anything. Why? It would be nuts at any time in history...UNLESS it was easy"_
If it was easy for them then 800 ton blocks would be everywhere. 800 ton blocks are extremely rare.
@@Leeside999 LOL They are not extremely rare. Outside the trilithon they don't exist. Now attempt to show where ANY 100+ ton stone has been used in the last 1500 years. Get a clue when you discover I know far more than you. Far Far more. Modern man can barely move a 300 ton stone. It takes about 50 axels
@@dougcard5241 As I said, they are extremely rare. You said it must have been easy. I pointed out that because they are extremely rare, then clearly it wasn't easy.
_"Now attempt to show where ANY 100+ ton stone has been used in the last 1500 years"_
Mussolini obelisk.
_"Modern man can barely move a 300 ton stone. It takes about 50 axels"_
Depends what method you employ. If you drag it on wooden rollers then you don't need 50 axels.
_"Get a clue when you discover I know far more than you. Far Far more."_
Apparently not.
@@Leeside999 Everything in that post is ridiculous and clueless. What was the obelisk used to construct? Don't answer again if you can't get a clue and you dont have an intelligent answer. Wooden rollers on what raod? lol Give the exact answer if you can. 1200 tons would destroy any wooden rollers on a stone road if not completely smooth.
Really Interesting. Thanks
Tight!!
You should do a video on an ancient "operation paperclip". You eluded to it with the Roman's gaining knowledge after the invasion of Egypt but begs You to wonder what else happened in history...
it's quite possible that they're a project handed down from generation to the next to contribute to the survival of their kin bc of the difficulty storing foodstuffs etc,, just a thought
Cool. Thanks for keeping our minds whirring!!!! You know, it's going to be rubbish if we ever find out how they did these things. I'll be gutted if it's a hoax!! XXX
Luke, now that you've made a couple of videos on Egypt lately I wanted to ask for your opinion on David Rohl's New Chronology? He uses the Hebrew Bible as a time marker and uses the way their names are written to re-date Egyptian kings of the 19th through 25th Dynasties. One of the things he proposes is that Shishaq, king of Egypt, from the Bible is actually Ramesses II.
Personally I buy Rohl's theory. I'm not sure how well researched you are on the topic, but I'd love to see your view on it.
The 3D model you have is modified to make it print easier I do lots of 3D printing
Great stuff!
Every time I hear him say flint chisels on the many shows covering this, my mind substitutes it for Flint Dibbles, lol.
Have you not seen UnchartedX video on the precision and coherence? Even a properly geared steel lathe with corundum drill bits isn’t sufficient to recreate the features present in the scanned vases.
What does doctor barnhart think about the vases?
great
Love it Luke, the more woo the better :)
When you go to Egypt luke, please please link up with Geoffrey drum from the land of chem youtube channel. Not to parrot someone else's work but to gain inside on so many things about what they were doing in egypt. Get a better bird eye view of understanding
Pure design excellence essence invokes quantum entanglements.
Maybe they used Diamond tiped tools.
If they could get their hands on the vases on Cairo Museum, and if the measurements are showing similar results, ancient Egyptian need bigger platform for engineers.
Saqarran Serapeums still haunt me to this day. It's the itch I can not scratch. We need more engineers colab with archaeologist.
We also need archaeologists to better understand that they are literally just a framework for facilitating collaboration. They need to stop being the gatekeepers of things outside of their fields. To get to bottom of what has been happening in Egypt we need geologists, physicists, mathematicians, chemists, stone masons, machinists, anthropologists, linguistics, historians, religious text experts, engineers, and honestly a ton of other fields. Archaeology is woefully incapable of doing anything on it's own, they shouldn't be able to override experts on things they know very little or even nothing about. "But it doesn't fit our models" well your models need updating then folks.
Scanning vases in Cairo is 100% one of the next steps that needs to be taken… problem is, if they feel like this has anything at all to do with Pseudoscience-they will shut it down & not do the scans at all.
So the vase research has to be extremely professional
This guy claims he only wants the truth..he could sell his collection and donate the money to the egyptian museum with the the stipulation he gets to scan some vases. All his vases are all oddly nicer than the ones in museums
@@itsnot_stupid_ifitworks The museums would never go for it. Museums around the world will likely make token gestures, drip feeding 1 or 2 here and there every decade or so to create the guise of cooperation and transparency but there's no way in hell they're gonna let any substantial volume be scanned. It doesn't even have to be some super evil Bond villain conspiracy where they want to cover things up, simply the money associated with controlling the narrative is enough. They're political and economically motivated entities unfortunately.
@@lukecaverns Engineers of different kinds (metrology, electrical and mechanical and so on) should do the (structured 3D-light and CT) scanning of the vases and the following analyzes of all the data!
They have the technical background and the technical understanding needed that archeologists/egyptologists don't have!
They're clearly made with copper chisels and hayforks. Come on guys!
Having not watched the video yet, the anser to the title is: provenance.
And the level of technology to achieve this level lf precision at the time of being buried in that grave thousands of years ago...
Provenance is one method of ascertaining the antiquity of an object, and though that is the only one accepted by art or artifact dealers of today, lack of provenance can be superseded by preponderance of evidence, and practical logic.
I'm gonna make an educated guess that it's a musical instrument, played by blowing air across the mouth, perhaps with a flute, possibly with an airbag. It could be some type of singing bowl! Maybe by barely touching the lip wet as it's spinning real fast would make it sing some. Wind a string around it and sling it like a top. Try adding different amounts of water to change keys?
Oh! The water you put in the jar is for dipping your finger into, to keep it and the lip wet.
The handle bracket looking bosses are weights for balancing, disguised as faux handle brackets, camouflaging their true purpose, in the aesthetics. Dill holes in the handle brackets would not serve its true purpose. Drilling holes through the bosses would only add to the complexity to only further serve the esthetics. It's not worth it. I guess they could have done a small pocket.
If they included drill-holes through the bosses in the original art, they would have most likely been cut curved, like the boss, on contour, constrained to the circumference. I'm thinking Plasma Discharge Machining cutting tool with a curved Keyhole shaped sinker bit.
Wait a minute! Those aren't handle brackets at all, nore were they meant to look like 'em. Anyone who plays one of these realised that it's not a container. That's why they don't have lids too. They probably store best with the mouth down, so they don't wobble around.
Place it lightly on a surface plate with the tip down. Try to do a controlled spin by pulling a wrapped string with your right hand while holding your finger on your left hand in the jar to steady it while you pull the string.
Then pour some water in it while it's spinning, wet your finger in the water, wet the lip and start trying varied amounts of pressure with your finger against the lip to see if you can get it to ring like a crystal class.
You could Also try bringing a tuning fork into contact with the balancing-bosses as it's spinning.
You spin them. They are inverted granite bells that spin like a top.
First wind an arm's length worth of string around it just under the neck. Then hold it with you left finger's inside the mouth and then pull the string with your right hand to make it spin. Pour water in, wet your finger and drag is across the lip to create the vibration that rings the bell. My guess is that it will spin for a long time because they are so heavy and no friction. Spin on granite.
These are not containers. They have no lid. They have no handles. What looks like handle bracket (bosses), across from each other, are weights for balancing. Whoever drilled these later for handles didn't know what it was, or they were trying to hide what it was. Drill hole are not part of the original design. Anyone playing this instrument would know they are balancing weights, not handle brackets. I'd call them nubs.
I wonder if they have a healing vibration. I imagine they do. Singing bowls are especially useful for meditation. Some have sacred geometry embedded in the shape; a time capsule of advanced technology. My best guess is that they came through the ice ageS. They could have and it's the best chance for technology like that to have existed.
Imagine a world where people lived an average age of 1,000 years, along beside others who also live 1k yrs in a society that developed its technology together for thousands of generation. That is a whole lot more likely type of place to find the technology and market to have engineered and cut these stones. I suspect they used Plasma Discharge Machining. It would also easily explain the polished looking finish.
I'm having second thoughts about the water. Maybe it's more likely that you would use a wand like with any other singing bowl. You could also use the wand to steady the bell as you spin it with a wound string around the neck.
The stones could last for eons but wooden mallets would not.
☕Good stuff man
Please look into David Rohl's New Chronology!
A vase like this was found in a 14000 year grave when they were building the damn for the nile.
Got a source for that?
Yo…what? Need a source
It wasn't. They are lying.
22:45 😊👍 Lost techniques of antiquity
Pre Dynastic Egypt had that corporate espionage on lockdown
These vases have the same purpose like a double tourbillon wrist watch in our age.
Luke, I think you should compare the ones they measured with the one in museums, such as the British Museum. Although they look very similar, notice that the handles are very different. And the ones in the museum are straight or curved in the opposite direction. I don’t think the ones measured are 5000+ years old. The ones in the museum are, and although impressive and very symmetrical when looked at, they need to be measured for us to be certain.
Absolutely. There are thousands of these vases in the possession of the Egyptian Ministry of Antiquity. I wholeheartedly agree that these vases (which have impeccable provenance in the case of the museum pieces) should be structured-light scanned. Obviously they would not show anywhere near the level of precision as these modern fakes and would put the whole argument to bed. Why won’t the Ministry of Antiquities do this? Your guess is as good as mine….
Did the vases have anything to do with the large scale depopulation of nearly the entire Nile River Valley from 14-5.5 ka or the heavy metal spikes seen in the Nile Delta deposits of 14 ka +/-? I think the contents of these receptacles have everything to do with these tidbits. Thanks to G Drumm for leading me towards this discovery.
Perfect balance spells "centrifuge" in my book.
Hey Luke make longer videoe😅
Soft sediments from the global flood was used worldwide to construct shrines as memorials to the events of the global flood . They petrified
You can tell the fake ones by dropping them from 3' up...
Real ones don't break
Even if they were made with manufactured stone, they are still extremely well made and accurate.
And it's not like they had a mould and replicated hundreds in that style, every one is unique and precise.
Another thing that is never talked about .... how did they work when the sun went down.
Every structure everywhere in the ancient world, there is no black soot an the walls or ceiling.
Did they have LED Lights hooked up to Baghdad Batteries or carry around those 12 foot light bulbs ?
I could create a liquid in the garage that will glow, but it won't light up the room to work by.
Academia has been avoiding advanced machining for decades.Especially those in Egyptology. Petrie couldn’t even explain some of the items he documented with what was modern day measuring tech in his day.
Luke Caverns x Matt Beall content will ALWAYS get a click from me.
I was listening to the Grimerica episode with you as their guest yesterday when I was at work. Was a great listen.
Keep going Mr. Caverns, you da man!!!
Just commenting for the algorithm. 👍
Considering the fact that some of there ancient vases have been found in graves10K to 12K years old, shouldn't we be exploring more intently ithe Green Sahara period , and west of the Nile? My research into archeological papers regarding this period seem to have discovered very little about any potential civilization(s) that may have thrived in the area. I get the impression that much like the view of the Amazon in recent decades that nobody of importance lived there. I see this as a potential new place of interest for archeological exploration. Perhaps that would be a good episode...
The Nile River Valley was abandoned from 14 ka until 5.5 ka. I wonder why. Megaflooding? No evidence of that whatsoever. Dry river? Nope. Disease? For 8.5 thousand years? Contaminated water? Check MEDIBA core samples for evidence of this.
Thanks for the vid, Luke!
One thing these vases help prove to me, the people who created them had no issue working stone precisely, at any scale.
The jars fit nicely with the highly polished stonework found elsewhere throught Egypt. The statues, pillars, "boxes", entire temples, and now these jars, they all show high levels of "exact" symmetry, and incredible polish in the stones' faces, still mirror-sleek.
Some of the jars could be thimbles, while the granite blocks reach tens to hundreds of tons, yet they all show a certain precision + polish that's just mind-boggling..
And then that it's a similar story all over the world, really, that there were many people working with stone with this level of familiarity..
Just the tip of the iceburg of something big, and i'd wager everything on that.
Make sure to research the topic of the “highly precise and polished” boxes because they’re not all that precise with the inside cuts and polishing is not proof of high tech.
@@jrockthecasbah By "highly precise", i mean compared to the tools and skills we attribute to the time periods, and perhaps even our own. They did plenty we'd struggle with, although we are focused on using other materials, overall.
And to the polish, the Egyptians in particular (at some point of time) had access to a method of making any stone shine for millennia. I don't know what else to call that but "advanced tech", and it's one that seems to be lost.
Now, if it turns out the polygonal masonry in somewhere like Peru once had a similar polish, i wouldn't be surprised. Similarly, India certainly might have some prime examples of polished stone, i don't know though.
Just pointing to some of Egypt's stonework with that polish so sleek, you can still see your face in it, despite however many years have passed. And all with symmetry so fine, it'd be tough to carve by hand.
@@dudeguy8686I just didn’t want people to think highly polished stone meant the ancients had “electric tools” because they had a lot of time to do labor intensive tasks. Lookup Sacred Geometry Decoded and he had videos explaining the polishing. I appreciate the symmetry of these monuments and wondered why and how these large stones were moved and built but I need to see more proof of the tools/machines that were used.
If the coffer in the Lahun pyramid is not considered extremely precise, then I’m a bit off on the definition. That box is somewhere beyond incredible. Someone designed a granite box or coffer in ancient units, and manufactured it out of red granite. In pondering the process, it is only reasonable that the most difficult cuts in the block would be made first, which would be hollowing out the cavity into an almost perfectly dimensioned rectangular box with its four, three-plane corners aligned and dimensioned to each other at the edges of the virtually perfectly flat inside floor. This task is practically and functionally, enormously difficult to accomplish. Try conceiving of the method you would approach such a task with. How would you grind the bottom flat, and do so all the way to the amazing tolerance corners?
Sawing the outside to produce the ledges would be the next tricky task, but would be easy compared to hollowing out a ton of granite. Additionally, Petrie said the surface wasn’t even polished, but simply ground that finely. Ben Van Kerkwyk’s video on the precision of the Lahun coffee is an excellent inspection of the phenomenal ancient object.
If Egyptology really cared about knowing the true past instead of fearing the implications that it may precede their current culture, they would have fully laser scanned this beautiful relic long ago, and questions about whether the ancients obtained such high level precision would be put to rest, producing a plethora of theories on how they were able to do such things in a time we label as “the copper age.”
@@TaoistDragons
Well said, and very true!
Those granite "boxes" (if you'll pardon the term) really are incredible, and well beyond our current methods of stoneworking. While it might be possible for us to make one, we'd just take the shortcut of cutting out flat slabs for each side to fit together.
A similar type of single-piece carved "box" are the "temples" found on Elephantine Island, and dipicted at least at the Dendara/Hathor temple. Though instead of "simply" flat planes, those temples have some beautiful rounded trim following their edges. Both styles are truly masterful examples of the craft, and i'd love to know why there was such an emphasis that single-piece design. Did that have a functional purpose, or was it just a preference born out of the ease and familiarity with which they worked stone?
Is there anywhere that you can view some of these photos from the 10,000+ year old graves with vases in them? I have always suspected they are much older than what they have assume based on where they are found, and I never heard of these tombs before. Also, I am really looking forward to your in-depth video about these vases. They are utterly fascinating.
One of Ben’s vase videos tells the name of the place in Turkey where a stash of these same stone vases were buried in a grave whose sedimentary strata was data to 12,000 years ago. Unfortunately, this place has suffered the fate of being flooded by dam building. Ben does show a picture which I will post here, if I can find my copy of it.
@@TaoistDragons I think you maybe mistaken there. None of these granite vases with the same characteristics have been found in Turkey. As far as I am aware they have only been found in Egypt.
Interesting
Someone should design a 'primitive lathe using tech available at the time.
I want to know how the ground down the granite sides of the pyramids. It's got to be the same tech that made these vases. This is something I don't think we're able to do today, actually I'm sure of it. They were cut flat in place, how? I really hope it'll be solved because as an architect, I'd love to see the technique used today, LOL :D
Maybe some Egyptian was simply the Michael Jordan of vase carving, and we're seeing the best out of a billion attempts. That would make sense
Can anyone explain me what he meant at 23:48? If he leans towards the dynastic egyptians being the creators of those vases, how can the same vases be found in 10000 year old graves? Did I get something wrong?
Even if the old Egyptians had better tools, we still can't explain the 'how" in regards to the precision....
Are you aware of any duplicated stone vases? If I set up a C&C machine to create something, I'll make several to justify the time spent in programming. The precision of these vases suggests that there was a machining process. Why would they only make one of each type?
Hold on. Wait. Making forgeries would not be as lucrative as being able to cut stone like this period. If you could cut stone like this, that technology would be worth way way way more on the open market than it would be if it was reserved for only making these obscure stone jars. Jars btw that you can't even find for that matter, much less afford to buy.
I see the confusion machining is not the same as grinding on a lathe
I was just thinking looks like they are made with a layth then you talked about a layth. Idk how to spell it though lol
"Occam's Razor" is hunching to me that.... "rock" must have simply have been much much easier to work with long ago....
Maybe "Rock" went through some sort of a "fossilization" process far in the past AFTER it was worked into all these fantastic objects... And it might have been maybe chalkier and much lighter in the past; I just don't know and not an expert.
Yeah well they weren’t created with 5 axis CNC machines either…they just figured out how to spin something on an axis…it’s called a lathe
Not possible on a simple lathe. These were definitely a product of a turret head machine.
You will probably need multiple axes to do it. One axis doesn't really make sense unless the configuration can be changed and re-angled with different parts or attachments, which could be the case.
If you look at the original 3D scan around the handles you can see there are over cuts it's really not that precise
Yeah precisely. It’s a feature of every vase ever discovered. This lends to the theory that Matt talks about extensively being that these were made on a lathe and then the excess was hand chiseled by the handles because you know… that’s literally what the evidence points towards.
@@aaronriddle9278 What about the offset handles with offset mass for perfect balance? These were designed to turn. They were centrifuge receptacles I suspect. Thorium and Uranium are abundant in Nile Delta black sand deposits.
Ancient AliExpress?
You sure that's the OG vase? I thought the first one had a flat top with a large chip in it, no?
All vases are unique, no two alike excist. If the olds used machines or other high speed instruments there would be many many the same. There are non. Seems likely they made this with handtools and alot of time
Every raw stone is unique.