@jackiestow4294 Banastre Tarleton, Bloody Ban, or simply The Butcher is well known. Clearly who our villain is. I wasn't there, but stories of his atrocities are well known to anyone who knows military history.
And to that end, I'd say it's fictional, but draws together from several real life characters and melds them together with a bit of creative license. The Frenchman is probably a nod to The Marquis de Lafayette.
@@jackiestow4294simply use your brain. The black people living there wouldn't have been free, it wasn't abolished yet even among the British empire who were one of the first. Also more of America was loyal to Britain than were disloyal, the reason the rebellion gained so much ground is the states that wanted independence were the largest by population. I find the name "the patriot" to be quite ironic considering the American Revolution were the rebels not the patriotic ones
The character of Tavington is based on a real British officer, Banistre Tarleton, who was nicknamed "The Green Dragoon" because his unit wore green jackets instead of the standard British army red. A "Dragoon" at this time was cavalry which fought as mounted infantry, i.e. they rode horses to increase their mobility, then dismounted to fight on foot using shorter muskets (called carbines), pistols, and sabers, while true cavalry fought on horseback with pistols and sabers. During the 1600's, British Dragoons were heavy cavalry that fought mounted with pistols and sabers, and wore steel breastplates and helmets heavy enough to be bulletproof against black powder muskets, the equivalent of French Cuirassiers.
"Kill me before the war is over, will you? It appears that you are not the better man." "You're right. My sons were better men." Fun Fact: Heath Ledger didn't work for a year because he only got offers for teen heartthrob roles. He was about to quit acting, and return to Australia, when he was cast in the film. Location Location Fact: Aunt Charlotte's (Joely Richardson) house is the same one used in Forrest Gump (1994), with slightly different interior paneling. The stone hedge visible in Forrest Gump (1994) is camouflaged with bushes in this film. Marksman Technique Fact: When teaching Mel Gibson and Heath Ledger how to shoot a muzzle-loading rifle, technical advisor Mark Baker gave them the "aim small, miss small" advice, meaning that if you aim at a man and miss, you miss the man, while if you aim at a button (for instance) and miss, you still hit the man. Gibson liked this bit of advice so much, he incorporated it into the movie, just prior to the ambush scene. Historical Fact: The historical accuracy of the costumes and settings was overseen by the Smithsonian Institution. It's the first time the Institution ever worked directly on the production of a movie. In addition to Francis Marion, a.k.a. The Swamp Fox, Mel Gibson's character is also based on the life of South Carolina militia leader General Andrew Pickens. Pickens had his estate torched, and lost a son, before he went back into action and led the militia forces at Cowpens.
Mel Gibson’s character married his sister-in-law after the war & she had a baby. It was common practice in the 1500-1800 to marry your dead spouse’s sibling. Remember that the population of America was quite small then & even fewer people lived in the country, so the pool of potential spouses could be quite sparse so a widow/widower marrying an in-law wasn’t seen as odd. In some parts of the country it was preferable since it kept money & land in the same extended family.
It's straight out of the bible it tells you to do that. I forgot where, been a million years since I read it but I think there's some law you should marry a dead spouse's sibling or something.
The Bible often contradicts itself. In Deuteronomy it’s forbidden to marry your dead brothers wife. Leviticus not only says it’s acceptable but that it’s an obligation if the brothers lived together and one dies without any children. If that happens the surviving brother must marry his widowed sister-in-law and any children she has will be raised for the deceased man.
Leviticus doesn’t really apply for the situation in The Patriot. First, Charlotte is Benjamin’s wife’s sister, not his brother’s widow. There’s no indication that Charlotte was ever married, much less that she’s a childless widow. The plantation where she lives could easily be the home where Elizabeth and Charlotte grew up and was passed down when their parents died. Benjamin & Charlotte seemed to marry because they know & care about each other and to provide a stable family for all the children. The fact that it wasn’t unusual at the time to marry your dead sibling’s widowed spouse meant they wouldn’t have any repercussions from society.
The man who played the Dragoon Commander, Colonel William Tavington was Jason Isaacs. I know everybody hated him...I did too. But in my humble opinion Jason played a character who was in real life the way he was portrayed in The Patriot and SHOULD HAVE won Best Supporting Actor Oscar for it. He made you hate him... he did his job as an actor and for that I give him kudos and props and accolades. He did an outstanding job. Don't hate the actor... hate the character. Jason masterfully brought Tavington to life.
I love watching movies with you guys. I've seen most of these, but I appreciate being reminded it's okay to cry..... this movie has plenty of those moments.
@shrodingerschat2258 And then you get him in Armageddon where he plays, as Billy Bob Thornton decry's, "The most smartest man on the planet"...a NASA number-cruncher. The dude can act... and frankly...I like his style.
We had put this one on the calendar a couple of months back and decided to just go for it for the 4th of July. 😂 We've got some comedies and a new miniseries in the works. The rest of the summer will probably be a little more lighthearted.
The musket of this era had a smooth bore and fired a round ball projectile. These two factors made them very inaccurate weapons. Military tactics were as a result designed around this disadvantage. (Rifled barrels were very rare at this time and could not be mass produced.) By keeping formations in tight lines and shooting in "volleys" the goal was to maximize the chance of hitting your enemy. A the same time it would create "holes" or gaps in your enemy's firing lines thus reducing his ability to inflict damage to your own lines. Essentially it was the same warfare tactics that had been used for centuries with spears and bows and arrows. With our modern weapon, such tactics seem crazy to us, but because of the limitations of the weapons of the time, this was the best way to engage.
Also, with the noise of battle, shouted orders could only be heard a short distance, so the troops had to be close together to hear the orders of their officers. It was the only way to command a mass of men.
@@shrodingerschat2258 Bugle calls, drumming, or flags can be vague. They can relay the order to march or halt or charge, but they cannot convey something like "wheel 1/4 turn left, dress the line, spread ranks, first rank fire". A unit needed to be within shouting distance of its commander to function effectively.
The scene where the youngest daughter finally talks to Mel Gibson and begs him not to go is one of those movie scenes that I can't even think about without getting emotional again. The young actress who played little Susan met a tragic end in real life; she died in 2014 at the age of only 21 from an accidental overdose of painkillers.
This film did a very good job of mixing reality and fiction. Some of the characters (Lord Charles Cornwallis, General Charles O'Hara, Nathaniel Greene and Daniel Morgan) were based on real people. They way the war was fought in the south was depicted well. The final battle was basically a portmanteau of two battles, Cowpens and Guilford Court House. The tactic of using the Militia to fire two shots and then run to draw the British in was actually thought up be Dan Morgan, who used it against Banastre Tarleton (The man the Colonel of the Dragoons was based on) at Cowpens and utterly smashed the British forces with it.
Benjamin Martin was also loosely based on Francis Marion (aka Francis Marion). He and his militias were the one harassing Cornwallis forces down in the south using guerrilla warfare, which would help formulate the modern day US Army special operations. Harry was also loosely based on the real life Henry Lee (aka Light Horse Harry).
Mel Gibson's character is very loosely based on a man very well known here in South Carolina. His name was Francis Marion. The "Swamp Fox". His guerrilla tactics tied up and harassed the British Army for a couple of years here in SC. The Colonel Tavington in the movie is loosely based on Colonel Banastre Tarleton, a Dragoon, under the command of Lord Cornwallis. Tarlton is well know as being very ruthless and cold blooded. The final battle scene in the movie is based on an actual battle. The Battle of Cowpens, near the small town of Chesnee, South Carolina, which was a victory for the Americans, and the turning point in the Revolutionary War. Francis Marion was not at this battle, but Tarlton was. Also, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel of the 2nd World War, studied the tactics of Francis Marion the "Swamp Fox" and applied some of them in WW II and hence was to be known as the "Desert Fox". Playing off of Marion's "Swamp Fox" name.
Unfortunately, the actress that played the youngest daughter that wouldn't speak died of an accidental overdose (related to her epilepsy) several years ago. She was 21. She was also the little girl Hazel in The Cider House Rules (1999). Can't miss her. I highly suggest this movie. It's a beautiful drama about an orphanage and one young man who grew up there leaving to see a little bit of the world (played by Tobey Maguire, also starring Michael Caine and Charlize Theron). It can be pretty funny, but it's a drama... so bring a box or two of tissue, that one makes my cry multiple times every time I watch. I saw this movie while in the theater and was very moved, bought it first chance. Based on a novel by John Irving (World According to Garp, Hotel New Hampshire...).
I remembered this movie so I knew we were going to see a lot of tears. The war lasted 8 years, so more time passed than the movie made it seem. The baby at the end was very possible, and marrying his sister-in-law after his wife's death was probably not unusual back then. He had all those kids and she was there helping him, not surprising.
You know, it is interesting that you mention the difficulty of traveling in that day. I watched a documentary about people who were raised Amish, and who left the faith as adults. One of the young men said he hated having to sit on the top of the carriage in freezing weather holding the reigns every time the family had to go somewhere in the evening in winter.
That would be rough! I remember growing up in Massachusetts and even going places by car in the cold could be miserable. Can't imagine traveling by carriage! 🥶
aside from the tropes, It's a pretty well made film.. probably said it before on other channels, but the scene with Gibson covered in blood after slaying people with a tomahawk was kind of the embodiment of war for me as a kid.
I love watching movies with you guys. I've seen most of these, but I appreciate being reminded it's okay to cry..... this movie has plenty of those moments.
@@scarecrowman7789 I believe he meant they were enraged that British soldiers were depicted in that way. While technically, the British never burned any church 'with people locked inside', they did indeed torch an untold number of churches, and committed other atrocities on people suspected of helping the colonials. So burning a church with people inside isn't far fetched, considering what all else was done, even though that never happened (with people inside).
I love that your reactions, on pretty much every emotionally-charged movie y'all have reacted to, have mirrored mine. I'm a "crier" too, when it's warranted. I fully appreciate your authentic emotional responses - that's why they wrote these movies in the way that they DID! That's what was intended!
Your wife is way too emotional! I myself have never cried at any movie, but then I guess in the back of my mind I have never forgotten the fact that it's only a movie!
That style of warfare existed for 300 years for a reason. They weren't stupid and it wasn't inefficient, it was the best way to fight. Line formation allowed for easier command and control. Before radios were invented, commanders had to issue orders via instruments and flags and so men needed to be grouped together to be able to hear and see their orders. Line formation also maximized firepower as muskets were inaccurate beyond about 100 metres, so having the men grouped together like that was the best method of inflicting casualties. All major European powers had specialist light infantry that used skirmisher tactics (using cover, launching ambushes, specifically targeting officers, etc.). They often wore green and black (or brown, white, blue, depending on the terrain and weather) uniforms to better blend in with their surroundings. However they would have to fall back to behind friendly lines as the main army began to engage otherwise they would be targeted by friendly units and/or be ridden down by enemy cavalry (another reason why soldiers deployed in line, it was for defense against cavalry). Scattered infantry are easy targets for fast moving horsemen. The soldiers wore brightly coloured uniforms because the smoke generated by thousands of muskets made identifying friendly and enemy units extremely difficult. A uniform that shouted "I am on your team, don't shoot!" was extremely important. The British wore red and white, the Americans wear blue and white, etc. Smokeless gunpowder eventually leads to the bright uniforms no longer being used. The militia did target officers specifically as they were mostly armed with rifles but the majority of the battles won by the Americans were won by the standing continental army in large set piece battles where they deployed in line formations. As early as the 1790s veterans of the continental army were disgruntled at the fact that the civilian population believed that it was just the militia of "ordinary citizens" (despite the fact the majority of the militia in the early stages of the war were veterans of the French Indian War) that won the conflict.
Best way I can explain the tactics of 18th century war. They used inaccurate muskets so aiming at an individual would be highly in effective. So they had to fire in volleys at masses of the enemy. They also had to mass together in lines because Cavalry was a very serious danger to foot soldiers. A man on a horse with a sword could kill an infantryman with relative ease. To avoid this they massed together so if needs be they could form a wall of steel bayonets to defend themselves together. Spreading out would invite a cavalry charge that could destroy an entire unit. A lot of people react to these movies and say these strategies make no sense, but at the time and with the weapons available it was the best option. It wouldn’t be until rifles and machine guns that these tactics became obsolete.
"If I die I will die well dressed". I knew Toni was going to have a rough hour due to the fact that the children were literally 'in it' and affected much of the time. The story is embellished as the Ben Martin character is based on three different people, mainly Francis Marion as already mentioned below, but the things that the British did, though not accurately portrayed here as far as who, time, and place, are true. As the Martin character said, 'this war will be fought amongst our homes.' The Battles and said events however are accurate. I spent some time in the philippines and man they they still eat a lot of dog there in the provinces on special occasions. A guy had to be careful come dinner time. There is an extra on the making of this movie that is fascinating if you get the chance. Thanx guy, love ya. oh, I have one for you. "Sons of Liberty". Just fantastic
Fun Fact: the reason warfare at this time was "line up in large groups and fire all at once" actually had to do with the EXTREME inaccuracy of the smooth bore muskets used by armies during this time. They used them because they are fast to load and less expensive/complicated to manufacture for large armies. To make up for the inaccuracies of their weapons, the armies would shoot enmass to increase the chances of hitting. Kinda like shooting a shotgun, hoping for some of the BB's to hit the target. While the Colonies used much if the same weapons, in the guerrilla style fighting favored in this movie and by the Native Americans, they used "Rifles" muzzleloader firearms (rifling are spiraling grooves inside the barrel that make the projectile/bullet spin at great speed) While these weapons were MUCH more accurate then smooth bore, there were harder to make and much slower to load. This fit well through into guerrilla and sharpshooter styles of fighting.
The hits just keep on comin'. Great movie and great pick for the 4th of July! I must say, as soon as I saw this pop up, I immediately felt empathy for Toni. Still, another really good reaction from you both. The shot of Gibson and Ledger sitting, talking and eating an apple together is an all-time favorite of mine.
There's a lot of gut punches in this movie, and an emotional roller-coaster. Every time there's a funny or heroic moment they immediately follow it with a tragic one. But that's how the Revolutionary War was
The battles were fought like that mostly due to technological limitations. Massed produced firearms for warfare at this time weren't the most accurate (some accurate rifles were used but relatively sparingly and generally reserved for sharpshooter/ranger units). They essentially had to march up into close quarters because the effective range was pretty limited. The drums and flutes were used to keep order in the ranks. The music or simply the beat of the drum would tell you what you should be doing along with orders from officers while the flags helped to guide soldiers through the smoke of battle. The British infantry were the best organized fighting force at that time. Where most armies would stop to try and get the first shot in, if they were on the attack the British would instead march to the enemy as close as possible then let of a volley of fire to maximize damage, essentially firing point blank. Then maybe fire another volley or two then fix bayonets and attempt to drive the enemy from the field. Most people don't stick around to meet the pointy end of a bayonet. When British soldiers would get hit on the advance, the man behind him would simply move up and replace him in the line creating an impression that the British just kept coming and had no end to their manpower. To counter this, after a few failures of battles trying to fight the British like the British, the colonies adopted more hit and run style attacks. For instance, start a battle with a smaller force, feign retreat when pressed and then run their pursuers into an even larger friendly force.
Re: the lining up: It's because the guns were so slow to reload. You knew you'd likely get into a melee, and if you weren't in a formation, cavalry would attack you with swords.
WOW! 😄 I got home from work, saw what movie y'all had posted, and went "WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING?!" DUDE! Y'all were supposed to take a break from this kinda stuff. 😄 This was the complete opposite of "a break". Poor Toni! If y'all are gonna keep doing this, I'm investing in Kleenex tomorrow! 😂 Okay... now, you *really* deserve a comedy! If you want to keep it military themed, I suggest something like Stripes (1981), or Down Periscope (1996). As always, you really do pick great movies to react to. They just might be a bit hard to process initially.
Thanks! This had been on the calendar for a few months so we decided to do it even though I knew it would be a rough one for Toni. As sad as it was, she did really enjoy the movie. We do have some more lighthearted stuff planned for the coming weeks though. :)
I won't lie when I saw this one available I was like oh no Toni is gonna be so upset due to it being sad, dark, and rough to watch at parts. I watched this back when I was 11, it's still super good to even though it does has its flaws. This one does hit differently with American Independence on the line and all. Still love it.
I LOVE your reaction....I saw this film in the theater and the audience went nuts during the scene with the kids & Mel Gibson attacking that regiment. It was intense!!!!
(32:15) I knew this part would get to her. It was a sad day when she died so young. When I heard she was the little girl in The Patriot, it deflated me.
Fun facts: in 1718, the first machine gun was patented called the Puckle gun. Private citizens also could & always have been able to buy & own their own cannons. Many ships during the Revolutionary War for the Continental Navy were privately owned ships turned into warships. The Founding Fathers lived & saw the evolution of weaponry invented & purposefully used “arms” in the Constitution because of that to not limit future weapons yet to be invented. “Well regulated” in the 2nd Amendment at the time meant well trained & ready at a moment’s notice. It does not have anything to do with regulating arms at all. Also, guerrilla warfare was quickly implemented during the Revolutionary War because marching in an open field & standing across from the enemy was really stupid.
I can definitely see why guerrilla warfare was implemented. Didn't seem like a smaller army would have any chance against the British army lining up against them like that!
Benjamin Martin's character is loosely based of Francis Marion, The Swamp Fox. Tavington (evil british officer) is based of General Tarleton (the butcher). The final battle of this movie is once again, loosely based off of The Battle of the Cowpens and another battle I cant recall after a couple scotches. Francis Marion pioneered hit and run tactics learned from his time in the French-Indian War. Probably learned a thing or two from Robert's Rangers as well. This movie is rich with history with a heavy dose of Hollywood. I love this period in American history and sometimes knowing too much about a certain period can ruin movies like this but you know it's good when you can disregard all of that, and just enjoy what's on screen.
Two moments in the movie that gut me every time. 1) When Martin's daughter pulls away from him when he tries to hug her... just tears my heart out. And THEN, that heart gets stomped into the ground when she runs to him crying, "Don't go!" Brilliant. 2) When the racist colonial (Dan Scott played by Donal Logue) tells the slave, Occam (played by Jay A. Jones) as they are preparing for battle, "I am honored to have you with us. Honored." It shows the spirit of what the war was SUPPOSED to be about. It is a shame that more of THAT sort of spirit was not kept from the war.
The opponents are engaging in a Napoleonic style of warefare. It began in the late 18th century. It lasted until the end of the American Civil War when entrenchment became the norm. WWI was fought this way due to advancement in weaponry, ie., the machine gun, airplane, and tanks. These machinations changed the tactics of warfare drastically...as did advancement in communications. It was the beginnings of modern warfare. From marching into cannon fire to drones. Interesting reaction!
“Papa don’t go, I’ll say anything you want” is a moment in film history that is guaranteed to make me cry 10 outta 10 times lol even without watching the movie…just explaining the scene to someone makes me cry 😂
The war of independence was not an easy war to fight or win. England and it's king wanted to retain all its territories. It's really amazing that they actually lost their control of the colonies during this fight.
All I can say about the first little battle scene is, imagine being those kids, and seeing your dad go feral like that, how are you ever going to try to be bad ever again?
The saddest part for me is when Gabriel is dying. During his last moment, instead of feeling scared of dying, he's feeling guilt over his younger brother being slain while trying to save him. It must have haunted him the whole time but he had to speak it when given the last chance. And his father comforting him by telling him it's not his fault. That part really got to me!
Swamp Fox, Swamp Fox, Tail in his Hat! Nobody Knows Where the Swamp Fox is at! Swamp Fox, Swamp Fox, Hiding in the Glen! He Runs Away to Fight Again! I remember that from the 1950's when I was a Mouseketeer!
Benjamin came out ahead in the end, lost two sons, a daughter in-law, and his home; but gained two dogs, a wife, a baby, and a new house. Oh, and a new country. ;)
Baby at the end. You have to remember that it could take months to travel, and that the war did go on between the filmed battle and them showing up at the construction site. They could have been married for quite some time. The time between these incidents could actually have been up to two years. The war effectively ended in 1781, but the treaty was not signed until 1783.
I guess I was just surprised since I didn't think of them together.... I thought he was gone for so long after the son had gotten married and they continued the war. My timeframe was off... - Toni ☺️
Fun fact: Joseph Plumb Martin was only 15 when he joined the Connecticut state militia in the summer of 1776 & later joined the Continental Army of George Washington, serving 6 years. During the American Civil War, Manny Root was 11 when he enlisted as a drummer boy for the Union Army.
We had put this one on the calendar a couple of months back and decided to just go for it for the 4th of July. 😂 We've got some comedies and a new miniseries in the works. The rest of the summer will probably be a little more lighthearted.
The artillery scenes were accurate. In the days before explosive shells were reliable the artillery used what are called grazing fire. The idea was to have the round cannon ball hit the ground at a 5 degree angle and skip through the enemy infantry formation bouncing and taking down a whole file of troops with each shot. If you ever skipped a stone over a pond of water it is easy to picture. A good artillery crew could literally kill or cripple a hundred infantry during a single battle. Typical musket range using smooth bore patched round bullets was 50 to 75 yards and you fired at the enemy formation not an individual because aiming wasn't accurate beyond 20 yards with a smooth bore. Reloading took a trained soldier 20-25 seconds between volleys. Soldiers stood in ranks 13 inches apart, shoulder to shoulder in hopes of enough bullets hitting the enemy formation with volley fire to break them up, then charge with fixed bayonets. Redcoats typically killed many more enemies with bayonets than bullets because the muskets were so inaccurate.
Soldiers didnt have accuracy with muskets, so they didnt rely on it. Instead they would form ranks and pour as many shots into the enemy formations as possible and hit them with a wall of lead. Also, a good soldier could fire off 3 shots per minute. They had rifles too but they were rare, being formed into their own companies.
@@popculturallychallenged the Sharpe series with Sean Bean is very good if you are into this time period. They are a series of films surrounding the Napoleonic wars, following Major Sharpe and his company of rifles and their shenanigans fighting fir the Duke of Wellington. Not exactly the biggest budget but still very good. The Hornblower series is also really good following Hiratio Hornblower on his rise through the ranks of the British navy. Both are a kind of "before they were fanous" with some (now) big stars. Have you thought about doing game of thrones? The missus would never be the same after that! Powerful stuff.
The tactics used at the time don't make sense to us today but given the effectiveness and accuracy of firearms of the day this truly was the best option. It's really not that different from having men run directly into machine gun fire even if they're spread out.
The character of Benjamin Martin is loosely based on the real life Francis Marion as well as another militia leader Andrew Pickens I believe. Francis Marion was known as the Swamp Fox and was a father in modern guerrilla warfare. The Army's 75th Ranger Regiment can trace its lineage back to Marion and his militia. The moniker Swamp Fox was given by Banastre Tarleton, which is the real life figure that character Colonel Tavington is based on. Most of the guerrilla attacks and Tavingon's hunt for Benjamin's militia are also historically accurate. Lord Cornwallis and General Ohara are also real people. The character Harry is also based on Lieutenant Colonel Henry Lee aka Light Horse Harry, a notable cavalry officer.
The movie is actually based on Frances maroon a black slave owner or American hero southern revolution war general! His own actually escaped his plantation to join the British soldiers during the American revolution war time period. The brutal church burning massacre actually never took place! Because during the early days of world War two. The invasion of France the nazi Germany soldiers arrived in a small town in the France countryside. An gather the men together an emittedly shot an killed them. Later the German Nazi soldiers put the all the woman in the town in the only church there. An made a huge bound fire killed the poor innocent people in the church fire massacre. My great historical information for today. Have a great fabulous wonderful day.
My ancestor Captain John Peters was one of the officers present for Cornwallace's surrender and now we are the 23rd largest families in the United States. And yes, most like myself still have served, especially the Army! 🇺🇸
According to the director, while the movie is officially fictional the character of Benjamin Martin (Mel Gibson) is based on the activities/experiences of 4 real South Carolina Militia Leaders. There is 1 major flaw in the movie. The movie began in 1776. The last battle portrayed is apparently the 1781 Battle of Yorktown & the ending apparently occurred after the 1783 ending of the war. 1776 to 1783 is 7 years yet the children never aged 7 years. They were the same age in 1783 as they were in 1776. Widowers marrying their dead wife’s sister or cousin was normal back then and even into the late 1800s. Benjamin being with his dead wife’s sister and having a baby with her (the baby at the end) was no big deal.
The minister (from the collar, probably Presbyterian) , played by the late Rene Aberjonois, wasn't unusual in joining the troops and fighting beside them. In fact, so many Presbyterian pastors did so, the British started calling the Revolution "The Presbyterian Rebellion"
ive never seen a person cry at various things in this movie that i would have never thought were "worthy of weeping". Based of this Id suggest only watching comedies.
As soon as I saw her reaction to Thomas dying I knew I was going to hear a lot of crying. Marrying your late wife's sister is completely normal, especially back then. It was a much easier transition for children.
Linear warfare was a necessity until after the American Civil War. Simply, it took about 20 seconds to reload an 18th Century smoothbore musket and about twice as long for a rifle. The British, because they drilled with live ammo, could consistently get three shots off per minute, sometimes even four, which meant they dominated the battlefield when it came to volley vs volley exchanges. Smoothbore muskets were increasingly less accurate beyond 50 yards, and against another mass formation, 120 yards was the practical limit. Mass formations were also mandatory because more spread out formations would have been destroyed by Cavalry sweeping in and literally cutting them down. Only large groups of disciplined men with fixed bayonets could hold off Cavalry, but large groups of bunched together soldiers were also a target for cannon fire, so unit formations depended on commanders reacting correctly to very quickly changing battlefield threats. In the "Aim Small, Miss small" fight, the ranges were well within 50 yards, so once Benjamin and his boys had killed the officers and sergeants, the rest of the enlisted men. not used to all to Indian style ambush warfare, and got more panicked as they numbers dwindled, until Benjamin was in their midst like a berserk wolverine.
This is a great film, if not for the History, surely for the Spirit of the Revolution! The Church burning was fiction and was most likely taken from a WW II incident where the Nazis did that to Villiagers in Czechosloviaka. Because of their Roles in Sci-Fi Series I got to meet Rev. Oliver, Rene Auerjonois who starred in "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" and Gen O'Hara ( Cornwallis's Aid ) Peter Woodward was in "Babylon 5"! They both enjoyed being in "The Patriot"!
My favorite Mel Gibson movie nobody seems to know about is called “forever young” came out in the early 90s and it has Jamie Lee Curtis and Elijah Wood as well as Norm
i think the phrase 'i love you' so commonly used now, is a more recent thing.. not that people didnt declare their love in various ways, including using the word love.. but just not usually with 'i love you' wham bam thank you mam
Powerful reactions to a powerful film. I believe it was Union General Sherman (Civil War) who said "War is Hell". He was right. All of them. Much of this is based on real events although I'm sure they fudged some of it. Great viewing, will check out more of your videos.
The reason the regular army fought in lines because they used muskets which are incredibly inaccurate. A single shooter aiming at a single man would be lucky to land a hit a 25 yards. The way they solved this was have hundreds line up and shoot at once so there's a better chance of hitting the enemy. The militia tended to use hunting rifles which were accurate to about 250 yards, which is why they were able to fight using guerrilla tactics.
Muskets are accurate to about 90 metres. Where do you get the 25 yard number from? Aside from the advantage in firepower, line formations also allowed for easier command and control. Radios haven't been invented yet, so commanders must issue orders via drums, bugles, flags, etc., and trying to do that while the men are scattered and dispersed is extremely difficult. The British (and all major European powers at the time) had specialist light infantry units that used skirmishing tactics. You can also use guerilla tactics using smoothbore muskets. Guerilla tactics involves attacking supply convoys, intercepting couriers carrying orders, targeting isolated garrisons. Nothing you can't do with muskets instead of rifles. It just made it easier to do so.
Tactics in combat back then were simple and effective. A musket had an effective range at about 100 meters (109 yards). This meant that infantry had a killing zone at 100 meters. They had to organize in lines so that they could establish control and fire. If one side misused their fire, as in shooting too early, the other side had the opportunity to reach over those 100 meters in an attack without losing too many men. Artillery was only effective if correctly placed. All this fell apart when the rifle was introduced in the middle of the 1800s. A rifle had an effective range at 300 meters. That's why you see an increase in army size and killings during American Civil War, that and more effective, breach-loaded canons. The solution for all this did not come until after WWI.
Rifles were already in use since the 1770s (the American militia is rather famous for making heavy use of them against the British after all). You are talking about rifled muskets. Armies were no longer using Napoleonic style infantry tactics by the time of ww1, that is a myth. Emphasis was placed on fire and maneuver and using cover and the men no longer formed up in solid lines for battle. When the western front became a stalemate and trench warfare dominated the theatre commanders didn't really have a proper solution to the problem. No tanks yet, aircraft are still not effective as offensive weapons, etc.
@popculturallychallenged Its the theme song from a movie called "Team America"...a movie starring nothing but miniature sets and marionettes. It was made by the guys who have been doing "South Park" for the last 25 years so of course it can be irreverent in all aspects. The movie is hilarious buuuuut..... Not your type of movie, unless you love "South Park"- type of humor.
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
It's a fictional story, as far as I know. Mel Gibson using the swamp as an HQ is a nod to Francis Marion, "The Swamp Fox". Absolute legend.
How do you know it's a fictional story?? You were there to see what atrocities the British. So you don't really know
@jackiestow4294 Banastre Tarleton, Bloody Ban, or simply The Butcher is well known. Clearly who our villain is. I wasn't there, but stories of his atrocities are well known to anyone who knows military history.
And to that end, I'd say it's fictional, but draws together from several real life characters and melds them together with a bit of creative license. The Frenchman is probably a nod to The Marquis de Lafayette.
@@jackiestow4294simply use your brain.
The black people living there wouldn't have been free, it wasn't abolished yet even among the British empire who were one of the first.
Also more of America was loyal to Britain than were disloyal, the reason the rebellion gained so much ground is the states that wanted independence were the largest by population.
I find the name "the patriot" to be quite ironic considering the American Revolution were the rebels not the patriotic ones
Thank you for the additional information. - Toni 😊
Your wife started sobbing when Thomas died and all I could think was "oh no, this movie's gonna destroy her later on" 🤣
The character of Tavington is based on a real British officer, Banistre Tarleton, who was nicknamed "The Green Dragoon" because his unit wore green jackets instead of the standard British army red. A "Dragoon" at this time was cavalry which fought as mounted infantry, i.e. they rode horses to increase their mobility, then dismounted to fight on foot using shorter muskets (called carbines), pistols, and sabers, while true cavalry fought on horseback with pistols and sabers. During the 1600's, British Dragoons were heavy cavalry that fought mounted with pistols and sabers, and wore steel breastplates and helmets heavy enough to be bulletproof against black powder muskets, the equivalent of French Cuirassiers.
Tarleton had another nickname also...because of his ruthlessness, he was known as " Bloody Ban" by American soldiers.
All great information. Thank you so much for sharing. - Toni ☺️
Love that your wife is so emotionally involved
Wait that’s his wife!!! lol I know what the title says but she looks so much older than him I thought that was his mom lol
"oh, WRITE her" is a line that doesn't get the appreciation it deserves
"Kill me before the war is over, will you? It appears that you are not the better man."
"You're right. My sons were better men."
Fun Fact: Heath Ledger didn't work for a year because he only got offers for teen heartthrob roles. He was about to quit acting, and return to Australia, when he was cast in the film.
Location Location Fact: Aunt Charlotte's (Joely Richardson) house is the same one used in Forrest Gump (1994), with slightly different interior paneling. The stone hedge visible in Forrest Gump (1994) is camouflaged with bushes in this film.
Marksman Technique Fact: When teaching Mel Gibson and Heath Ledger how to shoot a muzzle-loading rifle, technical advisor Mark Baker gave them the "aim small, miss small" advice, meaning that if you aim at a man and miss, you miss the man, while if you aim at a button (for instance) and miss, you still hit the man. Gibson liked this bit of advice so much, he incorporated it into the movie, just prior to the ambush scene.
Historical Fact: The historical accuracy of the costumes and settings was overseen by the Smithsonian Institution. It's the first time the Institution ever worked directly on the production of a movie. In addition to Francis Marion, a.k.a. The Swamp Fox, Mel Gibson's character is also based on the life of South Carolina militia leader General Andrew Pickens. Pickens had his estate torched, and lost a son, before he went back into action and led the militia forces at Cowpens.
Thanks Gator, great information as usual. I didn't make the connection on the house being the same as in Forest Gump but totally see it now. - Toni 😊
You're welcome. Again, it's my pleasure.
Go in Peace and Walk with God. 😎 👍
I'm honoured to have you with us... Honored.
Love that line
Turned from British to American in that statement.
It was a great line.... I would have been honored too!! - Toni 😊
Mel Gibson’s character married his sister-in-law after the war & she had a baby. It was common practice in the 1500-1800 to marry your dead spouse’s sibling. Remember that the population of America was quite small then & even fewer people lived in the country, so the pool of potential spouses could be quite sparse so a widow/widower marrying an in-law wasn’t seen as odd. In some parts of the country it was preferable since it kept money & land in the same extended family.
It's straight out of the bible it tells you to do that. I forgot where, been a million years since I read it but I think there's some law you should marry a dead spouse's sibling or something.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levirate_marriage
The Bible often contradicts itself. In Deuteronomy it’s forbidden to marry your dead brothers wife. Leviticus not only says it’s acceptable but that it’s an obligation if the brothers lived together and one dies without any children. If that happens the surviving brother must marry his widowed sister-in-law and any children she has will be raised for the deceased man.
Leviticus doesn’t really apply for the situation in The Patriot. First, Charlotte is Benjamin’s wife’s sister, not his brother’s widow. There’s no indication that Charlotte was ever married, much less that she’s a childless widow. The plantation where she lives could easily be the home where Elizabeth and Charlotte grew up and was passed down when their parents died.
Benjamin & Charlotte seemed to marry because they know & care about each other and to provide a stable family for all the children.
The fact that it wasn’t unusual at the time to marry your dead sibling’s widowed spouse meant they wouldn’t have any repercussions from society.
In Some of them States there's still a lot of Cousin Marryin'!
The man who played the Dragoon Commander, Colonel William Tavington was Jason Isaacs.
I know everybody hated him...I did too. But in my humble opinion Jason played a character who was in real life the way he was portrayed in The Patriot and SHOULD HAVE won Best Supporting Actor Oscar for it.
He made you hate him... he did his job as an actor and for that I give him kudos and props and accolades. He did an outstanding job. Don't hate the actor... hate the character.
Jason masterfully brought Tavington to life.
He's good at making you hate characters....like when he played Lucius Malfoy.
I love watching movies with you guys. I've seen most of these, but I appreciate being reminded it's okay to cry..... this movie has plenty of those moments.
@shrodingerschat2258 And then you get him in Armageddon where he plays, as Billy Bob Thornton decry's, "The most smartest man on the planet"...a NASA number-cruncher.
The dude can act... and frankly...I like his style.
Jason Isaacs is a brilliant actor, i was hoping he would be the next James Bond back before they gave it to Daniel Craig.
Yeah. I remember seeing this when I was very young with my parents at the theater and all of us just universally HATED him. That’s good acting.
So much for taking a break from intense war movies 😂
Lol ridiculous.
This is not a war movie it’s pure fantasy
We had put this one on the calendar a couple of months back and decided to just go for it for the 4th of July. 😂 We've got some comedies and a new miniseries in the works. The rest of the summer will probably be a little more lighthearted.
That's exactly what I was thinking lol
@@ChosenMan-be8mzit's a fictional story but it was a real war. Not quite pure fantasy.
The musket of this era had a smooth bore and fired a round ball projectile. These two factors made them very inaccurate weapons. Military tactics were as a result designed around this disadvantage. (Rifled barrels were very rare at this time and could not be mass produced.) By keeping formations in tight lines and shooting in "volleys" the goal was to maximize the chance of hitting your enemy. A the same time it would create "holes" or gaps in your enemy's firing lines thus reducing his ability to inflict damage to your own lines. Essentially it was the same warfare tactics that had been used for centuries with spears and bows and arrows. With our modern weapon, such tactics seem crazy to us, but because of the limitations of the weapons of the time, this was the best way to engage.
Glad you mentioned that. Also, because cavalry was still in use, those formations made it better suited to defending from cavalry charges if need be.
Also, with the noise of battle, shouted orders could only be heard a short distance, so the troops had to be close together to hear the orders of their officers. It was the only way to command a mass of men.
@@mikearmstrong8483 Well, not the only way. They also used bugle calls to command the troops.
@@shrodingerschat2258
Bugle calls, drumming, or flags can be vague. They can relay the order to march or halt or charge, but they cannot convey something like "wheel 1/4 turn left, dress the line, spread ranks, first rank fire". A unit needed to be within shouting distance of its commander to function effectively.
Thank you for the additional information. - Toni 😌
Oh jeez... the amount of tears i see coming. For this one i will need some tissues too 😢
Still an amazing movie and with Heath one cannot go wrong 💔
This was a great movie even though it was so sad! 😢 -Toni
Lawd your wife be having me over here crying too!! I’ve seen this movie many many times and certain parts always gets me, especially with the kids!
This movie had so many emotional moments didn't it?
The scene where the youngest daughter finally talks to Mel Gibson and begs him not to go is one of those movie scenes that I can't even think about without getting emotional again. The young actress who played little Susan met a tragic end in real life; she died in 2014 at the age of only 21 from an accidental overdose of painkillers.
I agree, that scene was so sad! 😭 That is such a shame that she passed away so young too. 😢
The Patriot, Braveheart, and Passion of the Christ are my 3 favorite Mel Gibson movies.
This film did a very good job of mixing reality and fiction. Some of the characters (Lord Charles Cornwallis, General Charles O'Hara, Nathaniel Greene and Daniel Morgan) were based on real people. They way the war was fought in the south was depicted well. The final battle was basically a portmanteau of two battles, Cowpens and Guilford Court House. The tactic of using the Militia to fire two shots and then run to draw the British in was actually thought up be Dan Morgan, who used it against Banastre Tarleton (The man the Colonel of the Dragoons was based on) at Cowpens and utterly smashed the British forces with it.
Thank You, that's the real History!
Benjamin Martin was also loosely based on Francis Marion (aka Francis Marion). He and his militias were the one harassing Cornwallis forces down in the south using guerrilla warfare, which would help formulate the modern day US Army special operations. Harry was also loosely based on the real life Henry Lee (aka Light Horse Harry).
Thanks for the info!
@@popculturallychallenged You are very welcome
No they didn’t it was soo inaccurate
Mel Gibson's character is very loosely based on a man very well known here in South Carolina. His name was Francis Marion. The "Swamp Fox". His guerrilla tactics tied up and harassed the British Army for a couple of years here in SC. The Colonel Tavington in the movie is loosely based on Colonel Banastre Tarleton, a Dragoon, under the command of Lord Cornwallis. Tarlton is well know as being very ruthless and cold blooded. The final battle scene in the movie is based on an actual battle. The Battle of Cowpens, near the small town of Chesnee, South Carolina, which was a victory for the Americans, and the turning point in the Revolutionary War. Francis Marion was not at this battle, but Tarlton was. Also, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel of the 2nd World War, studied the tactics of Francis Marion the "Swamp Fox" and applied some of them in WW II and hence was to be known as the "Desert Fox". Playing off of Marion's "Swamp Fox" name.
Thank you for the info! 👍
They were both ruthless slave owning twats
Unfortunately, the actress that played the youngest daughter that wouldn't speak died of an accidental overdose (related to her epilepsy) several years ago. She was 21.
She was also the little girl Hazel in The Cider House Rules (1999). Can't miss her. I highly suggest this movie. It's a beautiful drama about an orphanage and one young man who grew up there leaving to see a little bit of the world (played by Tobey Maguire, also starring Michael Caine and Charlize Theron). It can be pretty funny, but it's a drama... so bring a box or two of tissue, that one makes my cry multiple times every time I watch. I saw this movie while in the theater and was very moved, bought it first chance. Based on a novel by John Irving (World According to Garp, Hotel New Hampshire...).
Tobey Maguire and I love that movie too.
@@zoltannagy972 hahaha, right. Tobey Hooper (Tobe Hooper directed Texas Chainsaw Massacre, not exactly a tearjerker).
@@zoltannagy972 edited, thanks
@@bertpunkaficionado8357 willingly
That's so sad. 😢 We might have to check out The Cider House Rules.
I remembered this movie so I knew we were going to see a lot of tears. The war lasted 8 years, so more time passed than the movie made it seem. The baby at the end was very possible, and marrying his sister-in-law after his wife's death was probably not unusual back then. He had all those kids and she was there helping him, not surprising.
Good point!
You know, it is interesting that you mention the difficulty of traveling in that day. I watched a documentary about people who were raised Amish, and who left the faith as adults. One of the young men said he hated having to sit on the top of the carriage in freezing weather holding the reigns every time the family had to go somewhere in the evening in winter.
That would be rough! I remember growing up in Massachusetts and even going places by car in the cold could be miserable. Can't imagine traveling by carriage! 🥶
@@popculturallychallenged I'm from Mass. too, and yeah, the weather gets crazy for sure!
Great movie, but I subscribed thanks to your wife's reactions. She visually felt what I felt watching this for the first time. Love it
Glad you enjoyed it!! Thank you for subscribing. Can't wait to watch more movies with you. - Toni 😊
aside from the tropes, It's a pretty well made film.. probably said it before on other channels, but the scene with Gibson covered in blood after slaying people with a tomahawk was kind of the embodiment of war for me as a kid.
wow, I'm not sure what to say.... that's hard as a kid. - Toni 😥
One of Mel Gibsons finest movies yes I believe she had a baby married the wife's sister. Great reaction, poor Toni, lots of tears.
The American Revolution laster from 1776 to 1783 .... Plenty of time for Babies!
It was a great movie. I was surprised about the baby but it makes sense now. - Toni ☺️
“Don’t go! I’ll say anything!” Waterworks. every. time.
I love watching movies with you guys. I've seen most of these, but I appreciate being reminded it's okay to cry..... this movie has plenty of those moments.
Thank you! We're glad you're watching with us! 🥰
Uh oh. As soon as I saw the thumbnail, I knew that this one was going to hit Toni hard.
It did but I got thru it. two points for me. 😉 - Toni ☺️
As a Brit I love this movie. Watched it as a child, also love the soundtrack - one of my favourites. Cheers 👍🇬🇧🇬🇧
Really? Some of my British friends were enraged about the Church Burning!
@@jamesalexander5623 I think everyone would be enraged about that. Doesn’t take away how good the movie is.
@@scarecrowman7789
I believe he meant they were enraged that British soldiers were depicted in that way. While technically, the British never burned any church 'with people locked inside', they did indeed torch an untold number of churches, and committed other atrocities on people suspected of helping the colonials. So burning a church with people inside isn't far fetched, considering what all else was done, even though that never happened (with people inside).
@@saberx08 War isn’t a nice thing. Many atrocities come from it sadly.
This was an intense and very sad movie. I agree that the soundtrack was incredible!
I love that your reactions, on pretty much every emotionally-charged movie y'all have reacted to, have mirrored mine. I'm a "crier" too, when it's warranted. I fully appreciate your authentic emotional responses - that's why they wrote these movies in the way that they DID! That's what was intended!
Your wife is way too emotional! I myself have never cried at any movie, but then I guess in the back of my mind I have never forgotten the fact that it's only a movie!
The British are simply the best at play the role of the baddie! Tavington is a masterpiece in this along with Tom Wilkinson
He was a great villain in this!
That style of warfare existed for 300 years for a reason. They weren't stupid and it wasn't inefficient, it was the best way to fight. Line formation allowed for easier command and control. Before radios were invented, commanders had to issue orders via instruments and flags and so men needed to be grouped together to be able to hear and see their orders. Line formation also maximized firepower as muskets were inaccurate beyond about 100 metres, so having the men grouped together like that was the best method of inflicting casualties.
All major European powers had specialist light infantry that used skirmisher tactics (using cover, launching ambushes, specifically targeting officers, etc.). They often wore green and black (or brown, white, blue, depending on the terrain and weather) uniforms to better blend in with their surroundings. However they would have to fall back to behind friendly lines as the main army began to engage otherwise they would be targeted by friendly units and/or be ridden down by enemy cavalry (another reason why soldiers deployed in line, it was for defense against cavalry). Scattered infantry are easy targets for fast moving horsemen.
The soldiers wore brightly coloured uniforms because the smoke generated by thousands of muskets made identifying friendly and enemy units extremely difficult. A uniform that shouted "I am on your team, don't shoot!" was extremely important. The British wore red and white, the Americans wear blue and white, etc. Smokeless gunpowder eventually leads to the bright uniforms no longer being used.
The militia did target officers specifically as they were mostly armed with rifles but the majority of the battles won by the Americans were won by the standing continental army in large set piece battles where they deployed in line formations. As early as the 1790s veterans of the continental army were disgruntled at the fact that the civilian population believed that it was just the militia of "ordinary citizens" (despite the fact the majority of the militia in the early stages of the war were veterans of the French Indian War) that won the conflict.
Thanks for the info!
Best way I can explain the tactics of 18th century war. They used inaccurate muskets so aiming at an individual would be highly in effective. So they had to fire in volleys at masses of the enemy. They also had to mass together in lines because Cavalry was a very serious danger to foot soldiers. A man on a horse with a sword could kill an infantryman with relative ease. To avoid this they massed together so if needs be they could form a wall of steel bayonets to defend themselves together. Spreading out would invite a cavalry charge that could destroy an entire unit.
A lot of people react to these movies and say these strategies make no sense, but at the time and with the weapons available it was the best option. It wouldn’t be until rifles and machine guns that these tactics became obsolete.
Thank you for clearing that up for us. I was beside myself not understanding why they would stand like that.... - Toni☺️
"If I die I will die well dressed".
I knew Toni was going to have a rough hour due to the fact that the children were literally 'in it' and affected much of the time.
The story is embellished as the Ben Martin character is based on three different people, mainly Francis Marion as already mentioned below, but the things that the British did, though not accurately portrayed here as far as who, time, and place, are true. As the Martin character said, 'this war will be fought amongst our homes.' The Battles and said events however are accurate. I spent some time in the philippines and man they they still eat a lot of dog there in the provinces on special occasions. A guy had to be careful come dinner time.
There is an extra on the making of this movie that is fascinating if you get the chance.
Thanx guy, love ya.
oh, I have one for you. "Sons of Liberty". Just fantastic
Thanks!
Fun Fact: the reason warfare at this time was "line up in large groups and fire all at once" actually had to do with the EXTREME inaccuracy of the smooth bore muskets used by armies during this time. They used them because they are fast to load and less expensive/complicated to manufacture for large armies.
To make up for the inaccuracies of their weapons, the armies would shoot enmass to increase the chances of hitting. Kinda like shooting a shotgun, hoping for some of the BB's to hit the target.
While the Colonies used much if the same weapons, in the guerrilla style fighting favored in this movie and by the Native Americans, they used "Rifles" muzzleloader firearms (rifling are spiraling grooves inside the barrel that make the projectile/bullet spin at great speed)
While these weapons were MUCH more accurate then smooth bore, there were harder to make and much slower to load. This fit well through into guerrilla and sharpshooter styles of fighting.
Thanks for the info!
The hits just keep on comin'. Great movie and great pick for the 4th of July! I must say, as soon as I saw this pop up, I immediately felt empathy for Toni. Still, another really good reaction from you both. The shot of Gibson and Ledger sitting, talking and eating an apple together is an all-time favorite of mine.
That was a good scene! 👍
I'm a Australian and this movie made me cry also ❤❤❤❤❤
Your wife has a Patriot’s heart.
🥰 - Toni
There's a lot of gut punches in this movie, and an emotional roller-coaster. Every time there's a funny or heroic moment they immediately follow it with a tragic one. But that's how the Revolutionary War was
This was definitely a roller coaster but it was a great movie! 😃 -Toni
A conflict we learn little about. We almost betray it as a civil war with brits overseas not wanting to pay taxes.
The battles were fought like that mostly due to technological limitations. Massed produced firearms for warfare at this time weren't the most accurate (some accurate rifles were used but relatively sparingly and generally reserved for sharpshooter/ranger units). They essentially had to march up into close quarters because the effective range was pretty limited. The drums and flutes were used to keep order in the ranks. The music or simply the beat of the drum would tell you what you should be doing along with orders from officers while the flags helped to guide soldiers through the smoke of battle. The British infantry were the best organized fighting force at that time. Where most armies would stop to try and get the first shot in, if they were on the attack the British would instead march to the enemy as close as possible then let of a volley of fire to maximize damage, essentially firing point blank. Then maybe fire another volley or two then fix bayonets and attempt to drive the enemy from the field. Most people don't stick around to meet the pointy end of a bayonet. When British soldiers would get hit on the advance, the man behind him would simply move up and replace him in the line creating an impression that the British just kept coming and had no end to their manpower. To counter this, after a few failures of battles trying to fight the British like the British, the colonies adopted more hit and run style attacks. For instance, start a battle with a smaller force, feign retreat when pressed and then run their pursuers into an even larger friendly force.
That seems like such a brutal way to fight! 😢
Re: the lining up: It's because the guns were so slow to reload. You knew you'd likely get into a melee, and if you weren't in a formation, cavalry would attack you with swords.
Thanks for the info!
Great reaction, as usual! And damn you for making me cry more than I have in the past while watching this!
Thank you! Sorry I made you cry! 😂 -Toni
Jason Isaacs plays the best villains Col. Tavington in this movie and Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter movies.
He also played Captain Hook in my favourite version of Peter Pan ( 2003 ).
He was incredible in this!
The final shot to Tavington was for Thomas. The gut stab was for Gabriel. The throat stab was for Benjamin.
WOW! 😄 I got home from work, saw what movie y'all had posted, and went "WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING?!"
DUDE! Y'all were supposed to take a break from this kinda stuff. 😄 This was the complete opposite of "a break". Poor Toni! If y'all are gonna keep doing this, I'm investing in Kleenex tomorrow! 😂
Okay... now, you *really* deserve a comedy! If you want to keep it military themed, I suggest something like Stripes (1981), or Down Periscope (1996).
As always, you really do pick great movies to react to. They just might be a bit hard to process initially.
Thanks! This had been on the calendar for a few months so we decided to do it even though I knew it would be a rough one for Toni. As sad as it was, she did really enjoy the movie. We do have some more lighthearted stuff planned for the coming weeks though. :)
I won't lie when I saw this one available I was like oh no Toni is gonna be so upset due to it being sad, dark, and rough to watch at parts. I watched this back when I was 11, it's still super good to even though it does has its flaws. This one does hit differently with American Independence on the line and all. Still love it.
It was a rough one but I really enjoyed it! 🙂 -Toni
Yay😊
mr. sir. dont let the water back. we all cry
I LOVE your reaction....I saw this film in the theater and the audience went nuts during the scene with the kids & Mel Gibson attacking that regiment. It was intense!!!!
(32:15) I knew this part would get to her.
It was a sad day when she died so young.
When I heard she was the little girl in The Patriot, it deflated me.
It was moving!!! - Toni 🥹
Fun facts: in 1718, the first machine gun was patented called the Puckle gun. Private citizens also could & always have been able to buy & own their own cannons. Many ships during the Revolutionary War for the Continental Navy were privately owned ships turned into warships. The Founding Fathers lived & saw the evolution of weaponry invented & purposefully used “arms” in the Constitution because of that to not limit future weapons yet to be invented. “Well regulated” in the 2nd Amendment at the time meant well trained & ready at a moment’s notice. It does not have anything to do with regulating arms at all. Also, guerrilla warfare was quickly implemented during the Revolutionary War because marching in an open field & standing across from the enemy was really stupid.
I can definitely see why guerrilla warfare was implemented. Didn't seem like a smaller army would have any chance against the British army lining up against them like that!
Benjamin Martin's character is loosely based of Francis Marion, The Swamp Fox. Tavington (evil british officer) is based of General Tarleton (the butcher). The final battle of this movie is once again, loosely based off of The Battle of the Cowpens and another battle I cant recall after a couple scotches. Francis Marion pioneered hit and run tactics learned from his time in the French-Indian War. Probably learned a thing or two from Robert's Rangers as well. This movie is rich with history with a heavy dose of Hollywood. I love this period in American history and sometimes knowing too much about a certain period can ruin movies like this but you know it's good when you can disregard all of that, and just enjoy what's on screen.
Thanks for the info!
Two moments in the movie that gut me every time. 1) When Martin's daughter pulls away from him when he tries to hug her... just tears my heart out. And THEN, that heart gets stomped into the ground when she runs to him crying, "Don't go!" Brilliant. 2) When the racist colonial (Dan Scott played by Donal Logue) tells the slave, Occam (played by Jay A. Jones) as they are preparing for battle, "I am honored to have you with us. Honored." It shows the spirit of what the war was SUPPOSED to be about. It is a shame that more of THAT sort of spirit was not kept from the war.
Great moments! The scene with the daughter was so emotional. "Papa..." 😭
Mel’s character would have been a veteran of the French Indian war which is why is known and held in high reguard. Frontier fighting was very vicious.
After the French started it the British and Colonial troops started paying their Tribal Allies by the number of Scalps!
Thanks for the info!
My cheer, if I had one, would be for colonel tavington.
For his acting skills! I wanted to punch him! - Toni 🤣
@@popculturallychallenged
Yes he was very convincing
The opponents are engaging in a Napoleonic style of warefare.
It began in the late 18th century. It lasted until the end of the American Civil War when entrenchment became the norm. WWI was fought this way due to advancement in weaponry, ie., the machine gun, airplane, and tanks. These machinations changed the tactics of warfare drastically...as did advancement in communications. It was the beginnings of modern warfare.
From marching into cannon fire to drones.
Interesting reaction!
The southern war was actually incredibly vicious and bloody. Much more so than the war in the north.
😢
“Papa don’t go, I’ll say anything you want” is a moment in film history that is guaranteed to make me cry 10 outta 10 times lol even without watching the movie…just explaining the scene to someone makes me cry 😂
That was such an intense moment! 😭
Y'all just got a new subscriber. This was a fantastic reaction.
Thank you so much and welcome to the channel! 🥰
The war of independence was not an easy war to fight or win. England and it's king wanted to retain all its territories. It's really amazing that they actually lost their control of the colonies during this fight.
Toni, you gave that blanket in your lap a real workout. But still, you were great. I tear up every time I see this movie but nothing like you.
Thank you. It was a great movie and really enjoyed it. - Toni 🥰
All I can say about the first little battle scene is, imagine being those kids, and seeing your dad go feral like that, how are you ever going to try to be bad ever again?
Right? I'm sure there were no more swimming breaks getting in the way of doing chores after that! 😂
@@popculturallychallenged "boys, don't make me get the hatchet!"
The saddest part for me is when Gabriel is dying. During his last moment, instead of feeling scared of dying, he's feeling guilt over his younger brother being slain while trying to save him. It must have haunted him the whole time but he had to speak it when given the last chance. And his father comforting him by telling him it's not his fault. That part really got to me!
That was so sad! 😢
Swamp Fox, Swamp Fox, Tail in his Hat! Nobody Knows Where the Swamp Fox is at! Swamp Fox, Swamp Fox, Hiding in the Glen! He Runs Away to Fight Again! I remember that from the 1950's when I was a Mouseketeer!
I might have to see if that's on Disney+ 😃
@@popculturallychallenged
Leslie Neilson Plays the Swamp Fox! .... I really enjoyed it as a Kid!
My wife and I do competitive black powder shooting. She wanted a license plate that reflected the sport. Aim Small was available. Surprised it was.😊
Love that!
That is so cool! 😃
Benjamin came out ahead in the end, lost two sons, a daughter in-law, and his home; but gained two dogs, a wife, a baby, and a new house. Oh, and a new country. ;)
True!
I love which parts she cries at, empathy on 100.
Thank you . -Toni 🤓
Baby at the end. You have to remember that it could take months to travel, and that the war did go on between the filmed battle and them showing up at the construction site. They could have been married for quite some time. The time between these incidents could actually have been up to two years. The war effectively ended in 1781, but the treaty was not signed until 1783.
I guess I was just surprised since I didn't think of them together.... I thought he was gone for so long after the son had gotten married and they continued the war. My timeframe was off... - Toni ☺️
Oh Toni... Sweet, ugly-crying Toni... You've no idea how many of us would line up to give you a hug.
Thank you! 🥰 -Toni
Fun fact: Joseph Plumb Martin was only 15 when he joined the Connecticut state militia in the summer of 1776 & later joined the Continental Army of George Washington, serving 6 years. During the American Civil War, Manny Root was 11 when he enlisted as a drummer boy for the Union Army.
Wow! They were so young!
After band of brothers I thought you guys were done with war movies for a while. Looking forward to watching this one later.
We had put this one on the calendar a couple of months back and decided to just go for it for the 4th of July. 😂 We've got some comedies and a new miniseries in the works. The rest of the summer will probably be a little more lighthearted.
The artillery scenes were accurate. In the days before explosive shells were reliable the artillery used what are called grazing fire. The idea was to have the round cannon ball hit the ground at a 5 degree angle and skip through the enemy infantry formation bouncing and taking down a whole file of troops with each shot. If you ever skipped a stone over a pond of water it is easy to picture. A good artillery crew could literally kill or cripple a hundred infantry during a single battle. Typical musket range using smooth bore patched round bullets was 50 to 75 yards and you fired at the enemy formation not an individual because aiming wasn't accurate beyond 20 yards with a smooth bore. Reloading took a trained soldier 20-25 seconds between volleys. Soldiers stood in ranks 13 inches apart, shoulder to shoulder in hopes of enough bullets hitting the enemy formation with volley fire to break them up, then charge with fixed bayonets. Redcoats typically killed many more enemies with bayonets than bullets because the muskets were so inaccurate.
That sounds brutal!! 😢
"your sense of liberty is as pale as your skin" is such a banger
If she hasn't seen Braveheart, I hope you put that on the list. One of my favorite movies and I think Mel's best work.
We're going to do that one at some point! 😃
Soldiers didnt have accuracy with muskets, so they didnt rely on it. Instead they would form ranks and pour as many shots into the enemy formations as possible and hit them with a wall of lead.
Also, a good soldier could fire off 3 shots per minute. They had rifles too but they were rare, being formed into their own companies.
I can't imagine being a soldier in a situation like that!
@@popculturallychallenged the Sharpe series with Sean Bean is very good if you are into this time period. They are a series of films surrounding the Napoleonic wars, following Major Sharpe and his company of rifles and their shenanigans fighting fir the Duke of Wellington. Not exactly the biggest budget but still very good. The Hornblower series is also really good following Hiratio Hornblower on his rise through the ranks of the British navy.
Both are a kind of "before they were fanous" with some (now) big stars.
Have you thought about doing game of thrones? The missus would never be the same after that! Powerful stuff.
The tactics used at the time don't make sense to us today but given the effectiveness and accuracy of firearms of the day this truly was the best option. It's really not that different from having men run directly into machine gun fire even if they're spread out.
The last War I would Ever want to Fight in is WW I ..... Sorry I'm Outta Town!
I understand... it's rough watching it though. - Toni 😔
The character of Benjamin Martin is loosely based on the real life Francis Marion as well as another militia leader Andrew Pickens I believe. Francis Marion was known as the Swamp Fox and was a father in modern guerrilla warfare. The Army's 75th Ranger Regiment can trace its lineage back to Marion and his militia. The moniker Swamp Fox was given by Banastre Tarleton, which is the real life figure that character Colonel Tavington is based on. Most of the guerrilla attacks and Tavingon's hunt for Benjamin's militia are also historically accurate. Lord Cornwallis and General Ohara are also real people. The character Harry is also based on Lieutenant Colonel Henry Lee aka Light Horse Harry, a notable cavalry officer.
Thanks for the info! 😃
The movie is actually based on Frances maroon a black slave owner or American hero southern revolution war general! His own actually escaped his plantation to join the British soldiers during the American revolution war time period. The brutal church burning massacre actually never took place! Because during the early days of world War two. The invasion of France the nazi Germany soldiers arrived in a small town in the France countryside. An gather the men together an emittedly shot an killed them. Later the German Nazi soldiers put the all the woman in the town in the only church there. An made a huge bound fire killed the poor innocent people in the church fire massacre. My great historical information for today. Have a great fabulous wonderful day.
Thanks for the info! 👍
My ancestor Captain John Peters was one of the officers present for Cornwallace's surrender and now we are the 23rd largest families in the United States. And yes, most like myself still have served, especially the Army! 🇺🇸
That's so cool! 😃
Need to watch “Gettysburg the movie”. A battle in American history that still to this day holds the record for most fielded artillery barrage.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Dances with wolves with Kevin Costner is really great
Thanks for the suggestion!
God bless your wife. She is a real women !!! They are so hard to find nowadays !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to the director, while the movie is officially fictional the character of Benjamin Martin (Mel Gibson) is based on the activities/experiences of 4 real South Carolina Militia Leaders.
There is 1 major flaw in the movie. The movie began in 1776. The last battle portrayed is apparently the 1781 Battle of Yorktown & the ending apparently occurred after the 1783 ending of the war. 1776 to 1783 is 7 years yet the children never aged 7 years. They were the same age in 1783 as they were in 1776.
Widowers marrying their dead wife’s sister or cousin was normal back then and even into the late 1800s. Benjamin being with his dead wife’s sister and having a baby with her (the baby at the end) was no big deal.
All good points. I'm not sure how I feel about widowers marrying their dead wife's family..... - Toni 🤓
I knew this was going to be a tough watch for Miss Toni. Fantastic movie though. Great reaction!
Yes it was! Thank you! 😃
The minister (from the collar, probably Presbyterian) , played by the late Rene Aberjonois, wasn't unusual in joining the troops and fighting beside them. In fact, so many Presbyterian pastors did so, the British started calling the Revolution "The Presbyterian Rebellion"
ive never seen a person cry at various things in this movie that i would have never thought were "worthy of weeping". Based of this Id suggest only watching comedies.
the constant crying over 80% of movie makes it a bit difficult to watch. I'm not meaning to be a unemotional hard ass, just saying my opinion
Sorry I wear my feelings on my sleeve. I didn’t realize this was going to make me cry so much but thank you for watching as much as you did. - Toni ☺️
Susan is so clueless that her farther is protecting her brother and fighting for her freedom
I would agree with that. - Toni 🤓
As soon as I saw her reaction to Thomas dying I knew I was going to hear a lot of crying.
Marrying your late wife's sister is completely normal, especially back then. It was a much easier transition for children.
You were right!!! That completely makes sense. That’s a very good reason. - Toni
Linear warfare was a necessity until after the American Civil War. Simply, it took about 20 seconds to reload an 18th Century smoothbore musket and about twice as long for a rifle. The British, because they drilled with live ammo, could consistently get three shots off per minute, sometimes even four, which meant they dominated the battlefield when it came to volley vs volley exchanges. Smoothbore muskets were increasingly less accurate beyond 50 yards, and against another mass formation, 120 yards was the practical limit. Mass formations were also mandatory because more spread out formations would have been destroyed by Cavalry sweeping in and literally cutting them down. Only large groups of disciplined men with fixed bayonets could hold off Cavalry, but large groups of bunched together soldiers were also a target for cannon fire, so unit formations depended on commanders reacting correctly to very quickly changing battlefield threats.
In the "Aim Small, Miss small" fight, the ranges were well within 50 yards, so once Benjamin and his boys had killed the officers and sergeants, the rest of the enlisted men. not used to all to Indian style ambush warfare, and got more panicked as they numbers dwindled, until Benjamin was in their midst like a berserk wolverine.
This is a great film, if not for the History, surely for the Spirit of the Revolution! The Church burning was fiction and was most likely taken from a WW II incident where the Nazis did that to Villiagers in Czechosloviaka. Because of their Roles in Sci-Fi Series I got to meet Rev. Oliver, Rene Auerjonois who starred in "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" and Gen O'Hara ( Cornwallis's Aid ) Peter Woodward was in "Babylon 5"! They both enjoyed being in "The Patriot"!
That's so cool that you got to meet them! 😃
@@popculturallychallenged Peter is the Son of the British Actor Edward Woodward, the Original "Equalizer"!
My favorite Mel Gibson movie nobody seems to know about is called “forever young” came out in the early 90s and it has Jamie Lee Curtis and Elijah Wood as well as Norm
Interesting.... We will have to look into it. -Toni ☺️
i think the phrase 'i love you' so commonly used now, is a more recent thing.. not that people didnt declare their love in various ways, including using the word love.. but just not usually with 'i love you' wham bam thank you mam
Thanks for the info
Powerful reactions to a powerful film. I believe it was Union General Sherman (Civil War) who said "War is Hell". He was right. All of them. Much of this is based on real events although I'm sure they fudged some of it. Great viewing, will check out more of your videos.
Thanks! 😃
The reason the regular army fought in lines because they used muskets which are incredibly inaccurate. A single shooter aiming at a single man would be lucky to land a hit a 25 yards. The way they solved this was have hundreds line up and shoot at once so there's a better chance of hitting the enemy. The militia tended to use hunting rifles which were accurate to about 250 yards, which is why they were able to fight using guerrilla tactics.
Muskets are accurate to about 90 metres. Where do you get the 25 yard number from? Aside from the advantage in firepower, line formations also allowed for easier command and control. Radios haven't been invented yet, so commanders must issue orders via drums, bugles, flags, etc., and trying to do that while the men are scattered and dispersed is extremely difficult. The British (and all major European powers at the time) had specialist light infantry units that used skirmishing tactics. You can also use guerilla tactics using smoothbore muskets. Guerilla tactics involves attacking supply convoys, intercepting couriers carrying orders, targeting isolated garrisons. Nothing you can't do with muskets instead of rifles. It just made it easier to do so.
Thanks for the info!
Tactics in combat back then were simple and effective. A musket had an effective range at about 100 meters (109 yards). This meant that infantry had a killing zone at 100 meters. They had to organize in lines so that they could establish control and fire. If one side misused their fire, as in shooting too early, the other side had the opportunity to reach over those 100 meters in an attack without losing too many men. Artillery was only effective if correctly placed. All this fell apart when the rifle was introduced in the middle of the 1800s. A rifle had an effective range at 300 meters. That's why you see an increase in army size and killings during American Civil War, that and more effective, breach-loaded canons. The solution for all this did not come until after WWI.
Rifles were already in use since the 1770s (the American militia is rather famous for making heavy use of them against the British after all). You are talking about rifled muskets. Armies were no longer using Napoleonic style infantry tactics by the time of ww1, that is a myth. Emphasis was placed on fire and maneuver and using cover and the men no longer formed up in solid lines for battle. When the western front became a stalemate and trench warfare dominated the theatre commanders didn't really have a proper solution to the problem. No tanks yet, aircraft are still not effective as offensive weapons, etc.
Thank you for the additional information. - Toni 😊
As soon as I seen you were reacting to this movie I was like oh poor Toni lol. Such a great movie. But so much heart ache.
Yeah, this was a sad one! 😢
Toni: So they're going to war... and they are happy?
My mind: Well, it's...AMERICAAAA, FUCK YEAAH!!!
😂😂😂😂
Coming to save... the muthafucking day!!!
😧 - Toni
@popculturallychallenged Its the theme song from a movie called "Team America"...a movie starring nothing but miniature sets and marionettes.
It was made by the guys who have been doing "South Park" for the last 25 years so of course it can be irreverent in all aspects.
The movie is hilarious buuuuut.....
Not your type of movie, unless you love "South Park"- type of humor.
Just found your page. I’m loving it so far!
Yay! Thank you! So glad you are watching with us. - Toni 🥰
Just a suggestion, have you or Toni ever watched "Born on the 4th of July"
Such a great movie, and it's my favorite to watch this time of year.
Neither of us have seen that one actually. I've always wanted to check it out though. Maybe someday! 👍
No man or woman gets by without crying when his daughter calls for him.
That was heartbreaking wasn't it? 😢
It’s loosely based of a rea general named Francis Marion and the us rangers and special forces use some tactics that Francis Marion used
Everytime I watch this movie I can't get the name Peter Cuppin out of my head lol
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