I live in the Indiana, the "birth place" of the majority of RV's. The RV manufactures have "greased the palms" of many our legistrators, thus we are only protected under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act for towables. Motor Homes or "self-propelled vehicles" do fall under the LemonLaw
On my 3rd motorhome. 24ft classC to a 35ft classA now in a 2002 monaco exec 43ft tag dp. Went older for many reasons. Zero smog stuff, 500hp, 2 slides, yacht quality solid hardwood interior. Yea Ive put some money into it but its a straight up beast of a coach.
In California you have to sign that form or refuse to sign it but still "you" sign it at some dealerships. So watch out. That was from my Lemmon Law Attorney.
I recently suggested to my state rep that they do an overhaul of the state's lemon laws. I included the "Change of venue" clause as part of it. My suggestion was that the laws should specify that "any product purchased in the state of Ohio shall be litigated by the state of Ohio court system" needs to be part of that update. If all the states would do this, it would eliminate the clause all together. This problem doesn't just apply to cars, trucks, RVs or vehicles but I've seen it in appliances.
So many people are afraid if you add or change anything on your RV you lose your whole warranty. NOT TRUE!!!! Under Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act 1975, they can only deny warranty on the item or related items that you changed. Example: you add lithium batteries......... they can't deny warranty on your leaky roof.
Excellent advise! I won a Lemon Law against Ford (2013 Ford Focus)...The key, at least with Cars, and I am In California, they base your payment on the first time you bring the vehicle in for the issue. I knew it within the first few days, brought back one week after I bought it. It took me a year, had a great Lemon Law attorney in San Diego. I received all but $500 of what I Paid for the car, and the loan was paid off by Ford. I bought a Honda!! Persistence, know your rights and don't be afraid to speak up.. they are counting on most people just giving up. Ford also paid the attorney fees.
Loved this video to let RV owners know they have some ammo to fight manufacturers knowingly selling new or used RVs with multiple problems, hear horror stories all the time... I own a 10 year old Tiffin that was taken care of when I purchased it at 8 years old... Recently took long 57 day 5700 mile trip on a western loop around the country and staying in the RV parks is where you hear the stories of new motorhome purchases where the problems were so grave they couldn't even travel with their new motorhomes... This video would help that new owner find some real help with their problems, thanks for effort to get this video posted, good job...
I heard Tim mention Consumer Reports for cars. There is also something similar for RV's, Its called the Consumer RV Group. They rate RV's from all the manufacturers. A subscription will get you all their latest research. Just something to think about in addition to Facebook. Bought our 2021 Coach House 272 XL and have been very happy with it. But it's not from one of the large manufacturers and they only make about 100 per year. Came with a full three year warranty on chassis and house.
We just bought a Coach House Platinum 250…only have had for a few weeks but so far, so good. My researched showed that Coach House is a quality manufacturer
So scary that so many companies not just Rv's are trying to get away with this type of "business" dealings !! Thankfully Mr. Abeel and his associates are on top of this underhanded practice 👏
Great video, as always. I bought a Lance TT in the early days of COVID. Although it didn't have any super major issues, it had several nuisance issues. The worst of all, though, is the dealer experience. The Lance dealer in Phoenix would keep the trailer for weeks and, when I'd finally get the trailer back, the problems persisted. I gave up on conventionally-built trailers and purchased an Oliver Travel Trailer. I took delivery in January 2023. I've had zero issues with the trailer. I just completed a 3,000 mile roundtrip journey to Oregon, and the trailer performed flawlessly. So, my point is, there still are very reputable RV manufacturers that build quality products. They are just few and far between.
I agree with Tim’s comments about the walk-away and consumer protection laws. Unfortunately, manufacturers are not putting out top quality products. What was Tim talking about when he mentioned the “third wheel”? Do these lemon laws cover trailers and fifth wheels?
He was saying 3rd wheel but meant 5th wheel. I thought he was going to correct it at some point but he never did. He's got a million things going so I understand. The auto lemon laws are atrocious in some states and consumer friendly in others. Virginia had the worst protections for "Tent" sale cars years ago. Certain dealers were selling problem vehicles as is by reducing the MSRP to at cost on New vehicles. 9000 miles later; engine blows, you're stuck with an "as is" car and no warranty.
Great job and super information. We purchased a 2022 Forest River in 2022 . During our shakedown near our home all was good . 3 months in our slide was making noise at would not come in straight. We called the dealership and was told 6 weeks to check out our slide . Keep in mind we are now full time RVers on the road. We paid a mobile RV repair company $450 to look and possibly fix our slide issues. This gentleman showed us that the manufacturer did not drill any wear tab holes in our frame on the left side, the right side had the holes drilled out and wear tabs installed. When we would leave a campground and couldn’t bring the slide in to move on , we would have to manually push the slide back into flush position. We did get the slide removed and holes drilled as to not have this issue again. I did not get reimbursed for my mobile payment or motel fees . Who ever was supposed to stop the slide from being installed without the holes for wear tabs or wear tabs should not be in the RV industry .
Did you buy the 2022 cruise lite? We have had the same exact issue with our 2022 Salem 263bhxl with the slide. Our did the same exact thing you explained yours did. now water is coming in from the slide side. This has been a nightmare. And it’s back at the shop now.
New to RVs , looking at trailers at a park I camped at and talking to people I was floored at the lack of quality control and quality builds in US made trailers compared to the Alto Safari Condo from Canada. Here is seems like a race to the bottom no matter what class.
Thank you this is a very good video . I have not purchased a R V yet so I love all the information you both provide to me and all your followers thank you and have a blessed day
WOW!!! Wish this video would have been released 5.5 months ago when we purchased our brand new 37 foot Thor Windsport Class A, which has been in the shop for 4.5 of those months. Tons of problems. Shoddy workmanship, old parts, dealer not making repairs correctly (they even did a repair behind the microwave, dropped the microwave, resulting in a dent in the bottom and then they reinstalled it, yes with the dent!), improper parts being shipped multiple times in a row, no return calls from Thor or General RV in Wixom Michigan on progress of repairs. We had to constantly hound both of them, refusing to hang up until we could speak to someone regarding all the issues. We have tons of documentation and conversations with Thor and General RV. The most egregious issue that they will not address is the lack of air flow out of the defrost vents. We have never been so scared in our lives. As we were driving across I-96 in mid Michigan in early August 2023, we hit a wall of rain. The windshield fogged up so quickly that in about 10 seconds there was only 4 grapefruit size clear spots at the bottom of the windshield. I was on the dash board frantically trying to clear the windshield with paper towel so my husband could see to drive. We had the defrost on full blast and the upper windshield fans running at high speed with no help from either of them. God was looking out for us, and a couple miles up the road was a rest stop. We pulled in and it took about an hour with the air conditioners in the coach running on full blast to get the windshield to unfog. Thor refuses to address repairing the issue even though several of their CSR"s agreed that this was a dangerous situation. We received just a few days ago an email from Thor stating our case was resolved as "it's working as designed". We will never recommend purchasing a Thor product, or purchasing anything from General RV in Wixom Michigan. Thank you very much Endless RVing and Timothy Abeel for taking the time to inform us of this bigger issue with RV manufacturers and lemon laws. We will be looking into our legal options regarding the mess we have been through. This has not been the way we planned on starting our retirement. We pray this will help someone else before they decide to purchase an RV Dawn Perreault
We bought a 2019 Thor class C new. Last year at the Tampa RV show we thought of downgrading to a 16 ft. TT. After looking at the crap they are making we have come to the decision to keep ours. We have had only one minor issue with the stabilizers and that was fixed. Consider ourselves lucky.
Thank you so much Izzy and MJ for brining Mr. Timothy Abeel on. It was great listening to him about the lemon law. And helping others who have issues with cars and rvs. Thank you again Izzy and MJ! See you soon!
Pls get licensed in Alabama. Thank you for the info. My 2019 class A (purchased new) Winnebago 29L drives like an old farm truck. It’s very difficult to keep it straight on the road (it roams). We have invested well over $3000 in modifying and stiffening the front end so it doesn’t roam all over the road. I like the unit but just don’t feel safe driving it. It’s very fatiguing And not enjoyable. Thank you for sharing the info and what you do for the rving community.
Could you possibly list lemon law offices for the 50 states. In Washington State that info is available thru the Office of the Attorney General. There must be similar law firms in every state dealing with the Lemon Laws. Great video from you. I think it’s time that the RV industry was forced to be responsible for the product they produce. I own a 2013 Tiffin Open Road with 50,000 miles and it has been trouble free. The manufacture was a family owned business until bought by Thor. They family owned company stood behind their product and I know many owners who had minor to major issues and they all were satisfied with the response from the then owners of the company. Not so sure that today that is the case. Perhaps it’s is time for RV owners of all types of RVs to supply information on the problems they have had and a national list be made of RV manufactures and their quality record. I agree with your that the industry has major Quality problems. Yet I have never seen or heard anyone on u-tube or anyone publish a list of manufacturers and their quality or recalls or repair records. It also would be nice if when you guys review a trailer or motorhome you point out any visible defects you see, workmanship that appears of poor quality. Showing all the bells and whistles is nice but I have never looked at a new Rv that didn’t have a issue of quality somewhere. Bling is nice but solid construction is more import in the long run. Thanks for the Lemon Law video .
I HAD a Thor!!! It spent more time in the service department than on the road. I’m now looking at Winnebago Class C, I don’t see much bad news about them. Thank you for this information. GOD Bless.
Thank you for a great and very informative video. Two years ago I bought a Thor Magnitude in FL and until watching this, was never aware of the venue clause. Certainly, neither the salesman nor the dealer ever brought it up despite discussing the warranty.
Excellent advice with more information than I was aware of. Is this attorney dealing with just new RVS or does he assist with used motorhomes? It’s priceless information and does give us insight into how to do battle with inadequate disclosure and substandard RVS of which there appears to be ever increasing numbers. I’m really pleased that you took the time to post this message to your followers. A big thank you 😊 Much love, Lorrie
Great content as always guys - This is why I have been doing homework the last couple of years before buying next year. Thank you Mr. Abeel for what you do. I honestly hate lawsuits, but it sounds like if more hit the manufacturers, they will start doing better at quality control which is as good for them as is the consumer. I really think some of these manufacturers are missing out on a great opportunity to ramp up their product reliability while others are doing nothing. If one does this, their sales will soar! Last note, is what you guys brought up about inspectors. It galls me to feel like I need to spend $ to do this instead of the manufacturer, but the truth is, is that if you are going to spend 150K to 2M on something, what is another 1K. It will be the best $ spent in the transaction of ownership. I know there may be some bad inspectors out there, but most of the people that I have looked up have really great reviews!
Such interesting information, we went through problem after problem with our last motorhome. It felt like we were the only ones with a unit in the dealer more than on the road. Thank God we had a good dealer who helped us trade out.
Thank you guy's for this info! I'm looking to purchase an RV soon and information you share is very valuable! Because of you and a few others, I'm learning more about what I need to know going into this. By far this is probably the best information given to protect my purchase and peace of mind. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!😊
Amazing guys. Why does it even have to even get to that point? Whatever happened to the good old days when good honest companies stood behind their products and made it right. The problem is GREED and I don't give a crap about my customer service because there will be a sucker coming around the corner after this one leaves. I think if the manufacturers started insuring that all the sub-parts were made correctly and that their own people install them correctly we wouldn't have the problems we are.
Great work, Izzy and MJ. This is very much needed information for current and future RV owner's to have. It really is a sigh of relief to know that there are those out there who are protecting the consumer. I've seen far too many issue's with RV's manufactured from 2020 to present. One brand new unit in such abominable shape it should have Never Left the manufacturer! 🤦♀️ Really sad to see! Especially when paying so much for it. I won't name the brand but it solidified my never buying from that manufacturer ever.
The manufacturers build half-finished units and the dealers are complicit in selling them in that condition. We bought our unit new in Canada and had to sue the dealer to get satisfaction due to a negligent PDI.
I like how the lawyer has his kids drawings behind him on the wall even though it's a serious call, and I hope if he's advertising on a national forum like this his firm can refer you to lawyers who are licensed in your state if his firm is not. But also, a small ray of hope. I have a '23 LTV Wonder, I've owned it almost a year now. And I have had very few problems with it. A few screws backed out that I had to fix with epoxy, and some minor recalls. I'm on their Facebook group and while they have a few design flaws and I've heard of 2 or 3 lemons in the last few years, almost everyone reports they're mostly trouble free. But they're not based in Elkhart, and they're independent. Not owned by Jayco, Thor, Winnebago, etc. You do pay a premium, but it's in the tens of thousands, not millions. And there are similar companies out there. Pleasureway, Phoenix RV, Coach House, etc. I assume other classes of RVs have their equivalents, I only know about B/B+s. So I do think there are good RV manufacturers out there, and I do think they're more affordable than a Prevost. Maybe you won't find them at your local Camping World, but for the second biggest purchase in your life after your home it's probably worth doing some extra research, paying a bit of a premium, and traveling a bit to find a better product.
Hey yall!!!! RV's suck guy here! You guys look great.just bought a new 45' destination trailer to keep at my farm/hunting property in Georgia. Blessings, Bill in Florida 😁
This is awesome information and we had seriously looked into whether there were lemon laws for RV’s as we bought a new Keystone Cougar 357 UMR fifth wheel, which we love! We have had to bring it back to the dealer almost as often as we have camped in it. Thankfully they have been REALLY good about working with us to get it repaired very quickly. Most repairs have been small, but we have had a couple big things happen. Before we even took possession (we were actually picking it up) the left front landing gear would not fully retract, so we could not take it home. They immediately ordered the part and got it fixed. Then, we had issues with the kitchen slide outlets not working. They are all inverted outlets and we have the 600iL solar package on our unit so there is no reason why they shouldn’t be working. We brought it in and they fixed it. But then it stopped working again and we had to bring it back. It was finally fixed properly and quickly. The last really big issue was our bedroom slide. We were on a 5 night camping trip and couldn’t get the bedroom slide to extend properly (it kept “twisting”). We called Keystone (they were “closed for inventory”-it was a Friday afternoon). We called Lippert and the tech had no clue where the slide controller would be. Called the young lady in Service at the dealer and she gave us a Tech Line number and that individual knew his stuff! Couldn’t get the slide to extend properly even then, so had to spend those 5 nights without and extended bedroom slide. We notified the dealer right away and brought it in as soon as we got back. They could not get it to work properly and ended up ordering new parts for it. We had a trip already planned so we picked it up and had to, again, sleep without extending the bedroom slide. (It’s a good thing that I, as a 53 year old woman, still have a bit of flexibility so I could climb over our 2 dogs and 2 cats AND my hubby to get to the bathroom in the middle of the night! 😂) The parts are in and it is now in getting fixed and we should have it back before our trip next week. I have zero complaints about the service department at the dealer and how they’ve worked with us, but it is a pain nonetheless to have to keep going back to bring it in. Hopefully we won’t run into any more issues or we may be calling Mr. Abeel!
Sounds like a great dealership. Manufacturer support is very important, but the dealership is just as important. May I ask what dealership did you purchased from?
@@Peter-nm1ps Getting a new rig one piece at a time! And not paying a dime for it . . . All covered by warranty. It happens regardless of manufacturer. Thankfully, this manufacturer is honoring their warranty promise.
I do have a question... What about arbitration laws that are snuck in to contacts . My wife and I are are involved in a law suit about that right now. .
Hi Izzy and MJ! Thank you to you an Mr. Abeel for this information. I had no idea there was lemon laws for RVs. I always thought there wasnt. Its so important to know. We have had issues with our RV and twice its gone back to the manufacturer for major repairs but, the manufacturer stood by their product and did the right thing each time, once in warranty and once out of warranty so we cant complain! Safe travels!
Great video guys. I hope this video gets spread throughout the RV community. I wonder when you go buy a RV do you ask the dealer not to put the “Venue Clause” or who do you ask ?
In my experience almost all "Lemon Law" problems could be cured by having dealerships having reputable service. This include mfgs properly reimburse dealers for warranty and repair work. Having RV'd for over 30 years I have a LOT of experience with this: my average dealership repair time is one year. Yes that's right - ONE YEAR. Payments for a year plus and no RV several times. Almost everything I fixed myself for this reason. If my car is in the shop for more than a few weeks and they can't fix it that's an immediate full refund (including taxes and fees) under lemon law statutes. If RV dealers would be held accountable the Mfg would have no choice but to build better and help repair.
Is there a possibility to show us where is that clause in the contract. To many pages and I know we will missed. Those this lemon clause cover used rvs bought at the dealer? How about sale by owners rvs , does the clause cover?
I have really had a lot of problems with my little guy Max… I research the lemon laws in Georgia and unfortunately, they only apply to automobiles… According to what I’ve read the law, explicitly excludes, trailers and recreational vehicles.
Guys this was an opportunity for a lot of folks that NEVER thought they could have a great outcome of a fight with the manufacturer. Thank you!! I am passing it on! (Griffin’z Trippi’n)
Does this clause enforced from the state you live or from the state you bought your RV? Should be from the state you bought your RV so we can select the state which has lemon law protection for the consumer.
8:55 "If you're buying a new unit from Forest River, if you're buying a unit from Jayco, if you're buying a unit from a Thor, you tell them 'I don't want this venue clause put in my purchase contract'." But the consumer _doesn't buy_ an RV from Forest River or Jayco or Thor. He or she buys it from La Mesa RV or Lazy Daze RV or (God forbid) Camping World. In other words, the consumer doesn't buy an RV from the manufacturer; he buys it from the _dealer._ And the dealer doesn't have the authority to change the terms of the manufacturer's contract. So what can the consumer actually do? Yes, he or she can walk away from the purchase, but that doesn't really solve the problem, because at the end of the day, the consumer wants to buy an RV. If he has to walk away from every purchase, he doesn't get an RV. So what's the _real_ solution, if any? Or maybe there actually isn't one? I'm interested in hearing what Mr. Abeel has to say about that.
Our 2022 Jayco never should have never passed QC at the factory. The dealership should have rejected it due to various options that were never installed. Instead, they tried to cover it up and pawn it off on us, so they could make their commission. It always has something broken and most dealerships won't work on it because we bought it elsewhere. What a can of worms this has been. Does not live up to their advertised claims at all.
We have an issue with Rew manufacturing right now, they did not warn us to place any corrosive stuff like nail polish remover or Glade air freshener on the bathroom counter. Well we had a Glade plug in air freshener fall over and it soaked through the entire countertop into the wood. We contacted Rew who makes the holiday rambler and because it’s only 10 month over the 1 year warranty they refused to fix it. How where we suppose to know it would do this. Now let me tell you about Lippert, for the second time now they are replacing a defective product for FREE, yes free,warranty expired a year ago, at one time it was send overnight for free. Now that’s customer service , not like REW manufacturing .
We need to be suing thee manufacturers and dealers every time it is warranted and stop these deceptive practices. I was looking at a well known, well building manufacturer until I saw a vid of the first eight feet of the roof, the most important part of the roof, and the part with the biggest well known problem called ballooning, and it had no to little glue under the roof. It is like they are trying their hardest to screw their own business, and an independent RV inspector had no problem finding the problem. Then the dealer lied and said it wasn't a problem, but thankfully the manufacturer covered the cost of repairing the roof. Isn't it funny how you can buy a well built cargo trailer and make it into an RV and never have any problem with water leakage, but yet RVs are constantly being destroyed by water damage due to an archaic design that should have been put out of practice decades ago. I hate the practice of taking everything to court but these dealers and manufacturers need to be policing themselves so we don't have to.
I've always thought buying (and living in) an RV would be great, but I had no idea how many issues they can have until I 'binged watched' the _'Irritated Traveler'_ yesterday. Obviously this couple has a PILE of money, but all the money in the world doesn't protect you from spending all your time in the repair shop. I thought this couple just had a long run of bad luck, but it sounds like it's normal.
Happened to us with numerous recalls from Forest River pre-instalking fire traps. Then having to take that unit back to camping world for questionable service. It's my opinion that if you want to risk your life go ahead and buy an RV.
Certainly in America you need to sue everyone for everything because its the second largest employer in America. First is surfing the Internet. Wages paid by bailouts and printed money pays the bailouts. Third largest employer? Gambling. The stock market casino or crypto casino, 4th? Porn sales. lol
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Contact Attorney Timothy Abeel @ 1-800-611-5481 or www.timothyabeel.com
I did check website a bit.
Won't do any thing in my state of residence or the one where I bought the p.o.s. trailer.
I live in the Indiana, the "birth place" of the majority of RV's. The RV manufactures have "greased the palms" of many our legistrators, thus we are only protected under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act for towables. Motor Homes or "self-propelled vehicles" do fall under the LemonLaw
To bad he can't go after camping world and there hidden costs. Great information. Thank you 🙏
On my 3rd motorhome. 24ft classC to a 35ft classA now in a 2002 monaco exec 43ft tag dp. Went older for many reasons. Zero smog stuff, 500hp, 2 slides, yacht quality solid hardwood interior. Yea Ive put some money into it but its a straight up beast of a coach.
In California you have to sign that form or refuse to sign it but still "you" sign it at some dealerships. So watch out. That was from my Lemmon Law Attorney.
I recently suggested to my state rep that they do an overhaul of the state's lemon laws. I included the "Change of venue" clause as part of it. My suggestion was that the laws should specify that "any product purchased in the state of Ohio shall be litigated by the state of Ohio court system" needs to be part of that update. If all the states would do this, it would eliminate the clause all together. This problem doesn't just apply to cars, trucks, RVs or vehicles but I've seen it in appliances.
So many people are afraid if you add or change anything on your RV you lose your whole warranty. NOT TRUE!!!! Under Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act 1975, they can only deny warranty on the item or related items that you changed. Example: you add lithium batteries......... they can't deny warranty on your leaky roof.
Excellent advise! I won a Lemon Law against Ford (2013 Ford Focus)...The key, at least with Cars, and I am In California, they base your payment on the first time you bring the vehicle in for the issue. I knew it within the first few days, brought back one week after I bought it. It took me a year, had a great Lemon Law attorney in San Diego. I received all but $500 of what I Paid for the car, and the loan was paid off by Ford. I bought a Honda!! Persistence, know your rights and don't be afraid to speak up.. they are counting on most people just giving up. Ford also paid the attorney fees.
Loved this video to let RV owners know they have some ammo to fight manufacturers knowingly selling new or used RVs with multiple problems, hear horror stories all the time... I own a 10 year old Tiffin that was taken care of when I purchased it at 8 years old... Recently took long 57 day 5700 mile trip on a western loop around the country and staying in the RV parks is where you hear the stories of new motorhome purchases where the problems were so grave they couldn't even travel with their new motorhomes... This video would help that new owner find some real help with their problems, thanks for effort to get this video posted, good job...
I live in Texas and I am dealing with Camping Worlding , with a lemon RV
Did I hear him say "3rd Wheel" a few times???
Yes makes me wonder how familiar he is with RV types.
I heard Tim mention Consumer Reports for cars. There is also something similar for RV's, Its called the Consumer RV Group. They rate RV's from all the manufacturers. A subscription will get you all their latest research. Just something to think about in addition to Facebook. Bought our 2021 Coach House 272 XL and have been very happy with it. But it's not from one of the large manufacturers and they only make about 100 per year. Came with a full three year warranty on chassis and house.
We just bought a Coach House Platinum 250…only have had for a few weeks but so far, so good. My researched showed that Coach House is a quality manufacturer
Another resource for you is Steve Lehto, who is also on RUclips University, exposed the RV industry’s lack of lemon law and OEMs subsidiary warranty.
So scary that so many companies not just Rv's are trying to get away with this type of "business" dealings !! Thankfully Mr. Abeel and his associates are on top of this underhanded practice 👏
Great video, as always. I bought a Lance TT in the early days of COVID. Although it didn't have any super major issues, it had several nuisance issues. The worst of all, though, is the dealer experience. The Lance dealer in Phoenix would keep the trailer for weeks and, when I'd finally get the trailer back, the problems persisted. I gave up on conventionally-built trailers and purchased an Oliver Travel Trailer. I took delivery in January 2023. I've had zero issues with the trailer. I just completed a 3,000 mile roundtrip journey to Oregon, and the trailer performed flawlessly. So, my point is, there still are very reputable RV manufacturers that build quality products. They are just few and far between.
I won my lemon law case against Ford in Florida in 1999 - had an Explorer that was in the shop for repairs for 24 months.
I agree with Tim’s comments about the walk-away and consumer protection laws. Unfortunately, manufacturers are not putting out top quality products. What was Tim talking about when he mentioned the “third wheel”? Do these lemon laws cover trailers and fifth wheels?
He was saying 3rd wheel but meant 5th wheel. I thought he was going to correct it at some point but he never did.
He's got a million things going so I understand. The auto lemon laws are atrocious in some states and consumer friendly in others.
Virginia had the worst protections for "Tent" sale cars years ago. Certain dealers were selling problem vehicles as is by reducing the MSRP to at cost on New vehicles.
9000 miles later; engine blows, you're stuck with an "as is" car and no warranty.
Great job and super information. We purchased a 2022 Forest River in 2022 . During our shakedown near our home all was good . 3 months in our slide was making noise at would not come in straight. We called the dealership and was told 6 weeks to check out our slide . Keep in mind we are now full time RVers on the road. We paid a mobile RV repair company $450 to look and possibly fix our slide issues. This gentleman showed us that the manufacturer did not drill any wear tab holes in our frame on the left side, the right side had the holes drilled out and wear tabs installed. When we would leave a campground and couldn’t bring the slide in to move on , we would have to manually push the slide back into flush position. We did get the slide removed and holes drilled as to not have this issue again. I did not get reimbursed for my mobile payment or motel fees . Who ever was supposed to stop the slide from being installed without the holes for wear tabs or wear tabs should not be in the RV industry .
Did you buy the 2022 cruise lite? We have had the same exact issue with our 2022 Salem 263bhxl with the slide. Our did the same exact thing you explained yours did.
now water is coming in from the slide side. This has been a nightmare. And it’s back at the shop now.
New to RVs , looking at trailers at a park I camped at and talking to people I was floored at the lack of quality control and quality builds in US made trailers compared to the Alto Safari Condo from Canada. Here is seems like a race to the bottom no matter what class.
Thank you this is a very good video .
I have not purchased a R V yet so I love all the information you both provide to me and all your followers thank you and have a blessed day
WOW!!! Wish this video would have been released 5.5 months ago when we purchased our brand new 37 foot Thor Windsport Class A, which has been in the shop for 4.5 of those months. Tons of problems. Shoddy workmanship, old parts, dealer not making repairs correctly (they even did a repair behind the microwave, dropped the microwave, resulting in a dent in the bottom and then they reinstalled it, yes with the dent!), improper parts being shipped multiple times in a row, no return calls from Thor or General RV in Wixom Michigan on progress of repairs. We had to constantly hound both of them, refusing to hang up until we could speak to someone regarding all the issues. We have tons of documentation and conversations with Thor and General RV. The most egregious issue that they will not address is the lack of air flow out of the defrost vents. We have never been so scared in our lives.
As we were driving across I-96 in mid Michigan in early August 2023, we hit a wall of rain. The windshield fogged up so quickly that in about 10 seconds there was only 4 grapefruit size clear spots at the bottom of the windshield. I was on the dash board frantically trying to clear the windshield with paper towel so my husband could see to drive. We had the defrost on full blast and the upper windshield fans running at high speed with no help from either of them. God was looking out for us, and a couple miles up the road was a rest stop. We pulled in and it took about an hour with the air conditioners in the coach running on full blast to get the windshield to unfog.
Thor refuses to address repairing the issue even though several of their CSR"s agreed that this was a dangerous situation. We received just a few days ago an email from Thor stating our case was resolved as "it's working as designed". We will never recommend purchasing a Thor product, or purchasing anything from General RV in Wixom Michigan.
Thank you very much Endless RVing and Timothy Abeel for taking the time to inform us of this bigger issue with RV manufacturers and lemon laws. We will be looking into our legal options regarding the mess we have been through. This has not been the way we planned on starting our retirement.
We pray this will help someone else before they decide to purchase an RV
Dawn Perreault
We bought a 2019 Thor class C new. Last year at the Tampa RV show we thought of downgrading to a 16 ft. TT. After looking at the crap they are making we have come to the decision to keep ours. We have had only one minor issue with the stabilizers and that was fixed. Consider ourselves lucky.
Thank you for this video and important information. I work part time at a campground and almost every day someone is looking for an RV repairman.
Thank you so much Izzy and MJ for brining Mr. Timothy Abeel on. It was great listening to him about the lemon law. And helping others who have issues with cars and rvs. Thank you again Izzy and MJ! See you soon!
Thanks Sherri
@@EndlessRVing
You’re welcome! 😊
Great Video!! This is valuable information for everyone in the RV community!!
Thank you!
Pls get licensed in Alabama. Thank you for the info. My 2019 class A (purchased new) Winnebago 29L drives like an old farm truck. It’s very difficult to keep it straight on the road (it roams). We have invested well over $3000 in modifying and stiffening the front end so it doesn’t roam all over the road. I like the unit but just don’t feel safe driving it. It’s very fatiguing
And not enjoyable. Thank you for sharing the info and what you do for the rving community.
Could you possibly list lemon law offices for the 50 states. In Washington State that info is available thru the Office of the Attorney General. There must be similar law firms in every state dealing with the Lemon Laws. Great video from you. I think it’s time that the RV industry was forced to be responsible for the product they produce. I own a 2013 Tiffin Open Road with 50,000 miles and it has been trouble free. The manufacture was a family owned business until bought by Thor. They family owned company stood behind their product and I know many owners who had minor to major issues and they all were satisfied with the response from the then owners of the company. Not so sure that today that is the case. Perhaps it’s is time for RV owners of all types of RVs to supply information on the problems they have had and a national list be made of RV manufactures and their quality record. I agree with your that the industry has major Quality problems. Yet I have never seen or heard anyone on u-tube or anyone publish a list of manufacturers and their quality or recalls or repair records.
It also would be nice if when you guys review a trailer or motorhome you point out any visible defects you see, workmanship that appears of poor quality. Showing all the bells and whistles is nice but I have never looked at a new Rv that didn’t have a issue of quality somewhere. Bling is nice but solid construction is more import in the long run. Thanks for the Lemon Law video .
I HAD a Thor!!!
It spent more time in the service department than on the road.
I’m now looking at Winnebago Class C, I don’t see much bad news about them.
Thank you for this information.
GOD Bless.
I see that Indiana exempts RV's from coverage under lemon laws
Thank you for a great and very informative video. Two years ago I bought a Thor Magnitude in FL and until watching this, was never aware of the venue clause. Certainly, neither the salesman nor the dealer ever brought it up despite discussing the warranty.
@@Peter-nm1ps I appreciate your insight
Great and informative . Thanks for having Mr Abel on to discuss this!!…..Lisa
This is what makes you guys and your channel so awesome! Thank you for all the information you give us your viewers!
Thanks David. We’re consumers too. 👍
Excellent advice with more information than I was aware of.
Is this attorney dealing with just new RVS or does he assist with used motorhomes?
It’s priceless information and does give us insight into how to do battle with inadequate disclosure and substandard RVS of which there appears to be ever increasing numbers.
I’m really pleased that you took the time to post this message to your followers.
A big thank you 😊
Much love,
Lorrie
I've heard so many issues about Rving. This is one of your best informative shows. Thank you.
Our pleasure.
Great content as always guys - This is why I have been doing homework the last couple of years before buying next year. Thank you Mr. Abeel for what you do. I honestly hate lawsuits, but it sounds like if more hit the manufacturers, they will start doing better at quality control which is as good for them as is the consumer. I really think some of these manufacturers are missing out on a great opportunity to ramp up their product reliability while others are doing nothing. If one does this, their sales will soar! Last note, is what you guys brought up about inspectors. It galls me to feel like I need to spend $ to do this instead of the manufacturer, but the truth is, is that if you are going to spend 150K to 2M on something, what is another 1K. It will be the best $ spent in the transaction of ownership. I know there may be some bad inspectors out there, but most of the people that I have looked up have really great reviews!
Thank you so much Mr. Abeel for the lemon law information! Thanks to MJ and Izzy for this video!
Such interesting information, we went through problem after problem with our last motorhome. It felt like we were the only ones with a unit in the dealer more than on the road. Thank God we had a good dealer who helped us trade out.
Fabulous information, Izzy and MJ! Thanks for the continuing education!
Excellent video as always. Very informative, next time I purchase a new RV I will be a more informed consumer.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you guy's for this info! I'm looking to purchase an RV soon and information you share is very valuable! Because of you and a few others, I'm learning more about what I need to know going into this. By far this is probably the best information given to protect my purchase and peace of mind. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!😊
You're so welcome and we wish you the best of luck!
Amazing guys. Why does it even have to even get to that point? Whatever happened to the good old days when good honest companies stood behind their products and made it right. The problem is GREED and I don't give a crap about my customer service because there will be a sucker coming around the corner after this one leaves. I think if the manufacturers started insuring that all the sub-parts were made correctly and that their own people install them correctly we wouldn't have the problems we are.
When they lose enough money they will change. People have to demand better.
I heard today that camping world is filing bankruptcy, have you heard anything about it
Haven't heard that one yet. If verified, I'd like to know.
I hope they open a site in the Carolinas!
I wish you would’ve posted this video two days ago. I just purchased a trailer yesterday.
Great work, Izzy and MJ. This is very much needed information for current and future RV owner's to have. It really is a sigh of relief to know that there are those out there who are protecting the consumer. I've seen far too many issue's with RV's manufactured from 2020 to present. One brand new unit in such abominable shape it should have Never Left the manufacturer! 🤦♀️ Really sad to see! Especially when paying so much for it. I won't name the brand but it solidified my never buying from that manufacturer ever.
Why not name the brand. Adds to the collective wisdom of us all.
@@georgekatsinis5224 Agree. 👍
Names should be named! Manufacturers of poor-quality RVs should be identified!
Please let us know what manufacturer that is! Thank you.
@@bigj4223 Forest River
@@georgekatsinis5224 Forest River
Awesome information. Probably one of your best videos to date on RV Rights!
So when ready to purchase here in California I just say "remove the venue Claus" while sitting in the sales office before signing any paperwork?
The manufacturers build half-finished units and the dealers are complicit in selling them in that condition. We bought our unit new in Canada and had to sue the dealer to get satisfaction due to a negligent PDI.
Been following you all for a bit and very thankful for the amount of videos you post!
Wanderlocal is having a lot of trouble on their new 300K Air Stream RV Van. I advised them of your video. TY. Perfect Timing.
I like how the lawyer has his kids drawings behind him on the wall even though it's a serious call, and I hope if he's advertising on a national forum like this his firm can refer you to lawyers who are licensed in your state if his firm is not.
But also, a small ray of hope. I have a '23 LTV Wonder, I've owned it almost a year now. And I have had very few problems with it. A few screws backed out that I had to fix with epoxy, and some minor recalls. I'm on their Facebook group and while they have a few design flaws and I've heard of 2 or 3 lemons in the last few years, almost everyone reports they're mostly trouble free. But they're not based in Elkhart, and they're independent. Not owned by Jayco, Thor, Winnebago, etc. You do pay a premium, but it's in the tens of thousands, not millions. And there are similar companies out there. Pleasureway, Phoenix RV, Coach House, etc. I assume other classes of RVs have their equivalents, I only know about B/B+s. So I do think there are good RV manufacturers out there, and I do think they're more affordable than a Prevost. Maybe you won't find them at your local Camping World, but for the second biggest purchase in your life after your home it's probably worth doing some extra research, paying a bit of a premium, and traveling a bit to find a better product.
Hey yall!!!! RV's suck guy here! You guys look great.just bought a new 45' destination trailer to keep at my farm/hunting property in Georgia. Blessings, Bill in Florida 😁
This is awesome information and we had seriously looked into whether there were lemon laws for RV’s as we bought a new Keystone Cougar 357 UMR fifth wheel, which we love! We have had to bring it back to the dealer almost as often as we have camped in it. Thankfully they have been REALLY good about working with us to get it repaired very quickly. Most repairs have been small, but we have had a couple big things happen. Before we even took possession (we were actually picking it up) the left front landing gear would not fully retract, so we could not take it home. They immediately ordered the part and got it fixed. Then, we had issues with the kitchen slide outlets not working. They are all inverted outlets and we have the 600iL solar package on our unit so there is no reason why they shouldn’t be working. We brought it in and they fixed it. But then it stopped working again and we had to bring it back. It was finally fixed properly and quickly. The last really big issue was our bedroom slide. We were on a 5 night camping trip and couldn’t get the bedroom slide to extend properly (it kept “twisting”). We called Keystone (they were “closed for inventory”-it was a Friday afternoon). We called Lippert and the tech had no clue where the slide controller would be. Called the young lady in Service at the dealer and she gave us a Tech Line number and that individual knew his stuff! Couldn’t get the slide to extend properly even then, so had to spend those 5 nights without and extended bedroom slide. We notified the dealer right away and brought it in as soon as we got back. They could not get it to work properly and ended up ordering new parts for it. We had a trip already planned so we picked it up and had to, again, sleep without extending the bedroom slide. (It’s a good thing that I, as a 53 year old woman, still have a bit of flexibility so I could climb over our 2 dogs and 2 cats AND my hubby to get to the bathroom in the middle of the night! 😂) The parts are in and it is now in getting fixed and we should have it back before our trip next week. I have zero complaints about the service department at the dealer and how they’ve worked with us, but it is a pain nonetheless to have to keep going back to bring it in. Hopefully we won’t run into any more issues or we may be calling Mr. Abeel!
Sounds like a great dealership. Manufacturer support is very important, but the dealership is just as important. May I ask what dealership did you purchased from?
@@Peter-nm1ps 🤣 Never had an issue with the other 2 “aluminum cans” we had.
@@Peter-nm1ps Getting a new rig one piece at a time! And not paying a dime for it . . . All covered by warranty. It happens regardless of manufacturer. Thankfully, this manufacturer is honoring their warranty promise.
I do have a question... What about arbitration laws that are snuck in to contacts . My wife and I are are involved in a law suit about that right now. .
Hi Izzy and MJ! Thank you to you an Mr. Abeel for this information. I had no idea there was lemon laws for RVs. I always thought there wasnt. Its so important to know. We have had issues with our RV and twice its gone back to the manufacturer for major repairs but, the manufacturer stood by their product and did the right thing each time, once in warranty and once out of warranty so we cant complain! Safe travels!
That's good to hear they stood by their product. Would you mind mentioning the manufacturer?
@@peterkettelkamp7162 we have a Grand Design
Great video guys. I hope this video gets spread throughout the RV community. I wonder when you go buy a RV do you ask the dealer not to put the “Venue Clause” or who do you ask ?
Make them write it in your contract
Great video guys! Forewarned is forearmed. You rarely can have too much information.
In my experience almost all "Lemon Law" problems could be cured by having dealerships having reputable service. This include mfgs properly reimburse dealers for warranty and repair work. Having RV'd for over 30 years I have a LOT of experience with this: my average dealership repair time is one year. Yes that's right - ONE YEAR. Payments for a year plus and no RV several times. Almost everything I fixed myself for this reason. If my car is in the shop for more than a few weeks and they can't fix it that's an immediate full refund (including taxes and fees) under lemon law statutes. If RV dealers would be held accountable the Mfg would have no choice but to build better and help repair.
Very valuable information, thanks for sharing!
Does this clause enforced from the state you live or from the state you bought your RV?
Thank you. Wow, great information.
Is there a possibility to show us where is that clause in the contract. To many pages and I know we will missed. Those this lemon clause cover used rvs bought at the dealer? How about sale by owners rvs , does the clause cover?
Thank you so much for sharing.
Thanks for this video! Great info for before I purchase. ❤
Good luck!
Good information. Kinda wish I did more research before the transaction that's for sure
Thank you for the video. I’m getting ready to buy one but it’s gonna be used one Diesel pusher Thank you for the video.❤
Thank you for that information !!!
I have really had a lot of problems with my little guy Max… I research the lemon laws in Georgia and unfortunately, they only apply to automobiles… According to what I’ve read the law, explicitly excludes, trailers and recreational vehicles.
Contact Mr. Abeel to confirm what you have read
What's a third wheel RV
Guys this was an opportunity for a lot of folks that NEVER thought they could have a great outcome of a fight with the manufacturer. Thank you!! I am passing it on!
(Griffin’z Trippi’n)
Hopefully it can help a lot of people. Thanks for sharing it. 😊
Does this clause enforced from the state you live or from the state you bought your RV? Should be from the state you bought your RV so we can select the state which has lemon law protection for the consumer.
Awesome interview and very useful. Thanks,
Glad you enjoyed it.
Great information, very informative. Thanks for sharing.
8:55 "If you're buying a new unit from Forest River, if you're buying a unit from Jayco, if you're buying a unit from a Thor, you tell them 'I don't want this venue clause put in my purchase contract'."
But the consumer _doesn't buy_ an RV from Forest River or Jayco or Thor. He or she buys it from La Mesa RV or Lazy Daze RV or (God forbid) Camping World. In other words, the consumer doesn't buy an RV from the manufacturer; he buys it from the _dealer._ And the dealer doesn't have the authority to change the terms of the manufacturer's contract.
So what can the consumer actually do? Yes, he or she can walk away from the purchase, but that doesn't really solve the problem, because at the end of the day, the consumer wants to buy an RV. If he has to walk away from every purchase, he doesn't get an RV.
So what's the _real_ solution, if any? Or maybe there actually isn't one? I'm interested in hearing what Mr. Abeel has to say about that.
Would legislatures be able to rescind the venue clauses that have been snuck into our contracts already? Or would it be a judicial issue?
Judicial
Great information. Thanks!
Most excellent - thank you!
ThNks for a very informative video
What is this 3rd wheel he keeps referring to? Is this a term for a 5th wheel that I haven't heard yet?
Our 2022 Jayco never should have never passed QC at the factory. The dealership should have rejected it due to various options that were never installed. Instead, they tried to cover it up and pawn it off on us, so they could make their commission. It always has something broken and most dealerships won't work on it because we bought it elsewhere. What a can of worms this has been. Does not live up to their advertised claims at all.
Great information!
Thank you.
This bring up a question you did not ask, does Timothy knows of layers, like him, who are in states he does not cover?
Call his office
Really - lawyer that does lemon law on RV’s doesn’t know what a 5th wheel is (3rd wheel) ?
Read their reviews. All he needs to know is the law lol.
Op. He must work for dealer..
“We help people free of charge” so if he is able to settle the case that settlement is 100% mine ? How’s he get paid ?
Manufacturers pay attorney fees
@@EndlessRVing outstanding
I hope he has a better understanding of RV classes...he called them "3rd Wheels". Great info especially the "venue change clause" in the warranty.
I wish y'all got him to say, "We'll see ya on the road!" 🤣
😂
I would like to get a b van but there so expensive I don't think I'll ever be able to get one
Lots of cons to B vans. Highest cost per square foot of any rv, cramped quarters and wet bath. Buy used the market is flooded with them.
@@gwrace ty
***they're***
Third wheel? Really?
Another avenue to seek relief is through your State's Attorney General's Office.
Good content
I called Timothy Abeel. I purchased a NEW 2022 RV. They won't handle cases for RV's older than 2023. Why I don't know. Disappointing.
Probably a legal reason why.
We have an issue with Rew manufacturing right now, they did not warn us to place any corrosive stuff like nail polish remover or Glade air freshener on the bathroom counter.
Well we had a Glade plug in air freshener fall over and it soaked through the entire countertop into the wood.
We contacted Rew who makes the holiday rambler and because it’s only 10 month over the 1 year warranty they refused to fix it.
How where we suppose to know it would do this.
Now let me tell you about Lippert, for the second time now they are replacing a defective product for FREE, yes free,warranty expired a year ago, at one time it was send overnight for free.
Now that’s customer service , not like REW manufacturing .
We need to be suing thee manufacturers and dealers every time it is warranted and stop these deceptive practices.
I was looking at a well known, well building manufacturer until I saw a vid of the first eight feet of the roof, the most important part of the roof, and the part with the biggest well known problem called ballooning, and it had no to little glue under the roof.
It is like they are trying their hardest to screw their own business, and an independent RV inspector had no problem finding the problem. Then the dealer lied and said it wasn't a problem, but thankfully the manufacturer covered the cost of repairing the roof.
Isn't it funny how you can buy a well built cargo trailer and make it into an RV and never have any problem with water leakage, but yet RVs are constantly being destroyed by water damage due to an archaic design that should have been put out of practice decades ago.
I hate the practice of taking everything to court but these dealers and manufacturers need to be policing themselves so we don't have to.
Thanks for this important advice
I've always thought buying (and living in) an RV would be great, but I had no idea how many issues they can have until I 'binged watched' the _'Irritated Traveler'_ yesterday.
Obviously this couple has a PILE of money, but all the money in the world doesn't protect you from spending all your time in the repair shop.
I thought this couple just had a long run of bad luck, but it sounds like it's normal.
Excellent. :-)))). :-))))
Happened to us with numerous recalls from Forest River pre-instalking fire traps. Then having to take that unit back to camping world for questionable service. It's my opinion that if you want to risk your life go ahead and buy an RV.
Certainly in America you need to sue everyone for everything because its the second largest employer in America. First is surfing the Internet. Wages paid by bailouts and printed money pays the bailouts. Third largest employer? Gambling. The stock market casino or crypto casino, 4th? Porn sales. lol
Unfortunately sometimes companies don’t make changes until they get sued.