Threading Wood For Every Day Woodturning
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- www.AsWoodTurn...
We have a special guest for this week's video. Frank Young is a master woodturner. He will show hand chasing threads in segmented wood for all sorts of projects.
Why threads in segmented wood?
Usually when someone is chasing threads, they must use very hard, close-grained wood. Typically, these are exotic tropical hardwoods and very expensive. Some, like boxwood, have become scarce and only available in small dimensions.
What makes these hardwoods well suited for chased threads? Their wood is dense and strong to hold threads threaded on end grain.
But, what if we can expand threading to more common and less expensive domestic woods? The problem is that threads in these woods are not strong and quickly break away.
The solution is to only use the side grain in these woods. With side grain threads, the grain structure better supports the threads making them less brittle and well suited to supporting the threads.
How to use only side grain? Simple. Cut the wood into trapezoidal segments and glue them together like segmented vessels. Voila, side grain.
Not only side grain, but side grain of any diameter, any height.
What if my project is of solid wood? Easy, make the threads separately then glue the threaded segments into the near finished project - an insert.
The final advantage. Threading can be separate from the main project. If the threads get messed up, the project is not ruined. Simply remake the threads and continue.
There's more but start and explore the possibilities. Plus, domestic woods are more sustainable than tropical rain forest woods.
My guest is Frank Young.
Enjoy!
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wow I have been wanting a solution that didn't break the bank. Thank you so very much for sharing this video.
You are most welcome
Thank you, Frank for showing and teaching me how to use segmented wood for threading. It really changed a lot for me and made my thread chasing very easy! Enjoyed the video very much, thank you!
You are very welcome Vladimir.
Alan
Awesome video Alan! This method will open up a lot more possibilities for me, now I've just got to learn how to do segmenting.
All you have to do is start!
Alan
@@AsWoodTurns Hi Alan, I just wanted to thank you again for sharing the information on the segmented blanks for threading! I tried it out this week and it worked beautifully. Please tell your friend (Frank) for me that I said thank you for sharing this awesome idea.
Thank you Alan and Frank, very informative, someday I will take the dive into thread chasing.
You can do it! Not some day.. How about tomorrow at 10:00. A defined goal.
Alan
As a segmenter it should have been obvious to me that cutting threads on segmented pieces would be much simpler. Thanks for demonstrating what should have been the obvious. Makes perfect sense. One question though. How do you size the inside and outside diameters for threading? It's obvious that the inside diameter has to be smaller than the outside diameter, but by how much?
Well, that is a technical question that I've heard Frank explain a couple of times. He references a machinists handbook.
On a practical side, if you cut the female first, then you can measure the internal diameter. However, that would produce too small of a thread tenon. Instead, then estimate the base of the threads with a liberal allowance. Then cut down the male threads until they match. Overtime, you'll start closer.
In more words (after reviewing with my wife for clarity:
1. Cut the female threads
2. Measure to the bottom of these threads.(not the top)
3. add a little more
4. cut the male threads until they match.
Or, you can calculate the math based on a equilateral triangle and pitch...... and probably miss.
Alan
As Wood Turns The threads that I chased in the video were 20 tpi. The Machinist’s Handbook tells use that the thread height is approximately .070 high (I rounded up). Because we are working with wood versus metal I always fudge up a little. It is easy to make the threads looser in wood. I determine the center of my threads and subtract .035 for the female diameter and add .035 for the male. I plan upon doing a video showing how I determine the thread size for one of my segmented boxes, which allows me to keep the decorative segmented exterior intact.
Thanks to both of you for the video. Frank gave quite a few little chasing tips that I hadn’t seen before. Thanks again. Stay safe ad well, both of you and keep the informative videos coming. Cheers, Tom
Our pleasure!
Alan
Thanks, Alan. I think that is the first threaded segmentation project I have seen.
When Frank introduced me to it, it was an "ah Ha" moment.
Alan
Thanks for sharing. I have been trying to chase threads.
This is the best idea for threading (since threading).
Alan
Wow! Impressive ... poplar! I would have never guessed that without CA, poplar could take a thread ... Great job Team Frank/Alan
Our pleasure!
Alan
Thank you Mr. Stratton...
You are very welcome
Alan
Cool stuff.
Thank you
Alan
Hi Alan, Brilliant tutorial. I had several questions but all have been answered in previous comments. Cheers, Huw
Glad it helped
Alan
Thanks so much for this video. It was very worthwhile!
Glad it was helpful!
Alan
Alan, this one was really fascinating for me. I always thought threading projects was interesting. I would like to see more videos like this one. Thanks
More to come!
Alan
Thanks Frank and Alan! I learned thread chasing from Sam Angelo and enjoy doing it. Long ways from as good as Sam! I bought a Carter and Sons/ / Mike Mahoney chaser not long ago and really like how it works. I think I use it more now than my Sorby chasers. If you chase threads I recommend that one. I just might have to take up segmenting so I can give that a try. Frank made it look so easy!
Take care, Dave
David, with your permission, I'll take issue with part of your comment. IMHO, you don't have to "take up segmenting" to do enough to create threads on some rings. An 8 segment ring is low tech with very forgiving joints if you use the "half ring technique". More on that if you'd like.
Alan
@@AsWoodTurns No problem Alan! I know the technique you're referring to and will give that a try. I'll let you know what my results are. I make a lot of boxes and that will be a change, hopefully a good one. I'm always looking for ideas and you are a big help there. Thanks!
Take care, Dave
Thanks alan for ur time to teach cant wait to try this...jeff alta iowa
Great - go chase some threads. :)
Alan
Informative as ever, thank you for sharing. Keep well, Rob.
Thank you Rob
Alan
Another great video buddy! As always, can't wait for the next one 😊
Thanks again - more coming.
Hi Alan great video and tutorial keep up the good work and stay safe. Y.N.W.A
Thanks, will do!
Alan
Ya, sizing is pretty important. I don't recall Sam covering that also.
Short of quoting several pages and charts from the Machinist's Handbook. do the female threads first. Measure liberally for the male threads then cut the male threads. If you blow it, make another ring and save the others for another project. LOL
Alan
I really enjoyed this video! Thank you for putting this together and sharing. You produce a great channel!
From Central Texas y’all have a great day!
Thanks for watching! BTW, Is SWAT a go despite covid? do you know?
Alan
As Wood Turns cancelled due to covid19
It is always amazing to see skilled Woodturners making hand chased threads, it a skill that I unfortunately could never get comfortable and consistent with. After several attempts with a small amount of success it was apparent that, for me, a jig would be in order. Expensive? Yes but the consistency and repeatability is simply amazing.
Machine threading is still a good option. Bert, try it also on segmented rings like these. Then you have the advantage of almost separate projects: threads and the main projects.
Alan
Yes Alan, that is a great idea. Segmenting and then threading is going to be on my "to do" list for sure. I have been making threaded wood inserts for urns and other boxes for myself and others. The largest threading job I have done was about 7" in diameter, started as an experiment and now is firmly in my bag of tricks.
@@bertdelisle393 The key is to "unlearn" how you hold the tool for most other turning cuts. You need to hold the thread chaser really lightly, and allow the wood to draw it along with the thread. Any attempt to hold it still will cause the thread to strip and break out. Work in a capital D shape, where the cutting is along the flat upright of the D, and the tool returns along the round path of the front of the D (out of contact with the wood). Try to build a rhythm that is in sync with the speed the tool is being pulled through the thread. Good luck! It's one of those skills that takes time to develop, but then just clicks.
Thread chasing is something I’ve always wanted to do since I started turning 4 years ago and watching Sam Angelo. This was impossible for me as my lathe has a minimum speed of 500 rpm, however that lathe was sold last week and my new lathe coming next week has a much better speed range. Although an interesting video and nice to see a different person doing this personally I thought it lacked good instruction after watching Sam Angelo so much.
I would love to stick clear of the exotic woods as they are so expensive. It would be nice to have a list of a few woods common in the UK ideal for thread chasing. I know you need to stick clear of oak and ash as the grain is so deep.
Interesting video, hope we have some follow up on threads.
Since I don't know UK woods, I cannot advise on woods. I think you're right to stay clear from the very open grain woods. Try your cheapest wood with close grain.
Alan
Paul Lockwood You can use oak and ash for segmented threads, at least I have tried it and they were good. The best for me is maple, cherry, black walnut.
For a RUclips creator who knows what it takes to make videos, I was surprised at your rather harsh comparison to another YT'er, Paul. It was a collaboration video. Cut him some slack.
I'd love to do this, but segmenting is not my thing. Not only do I not have the patience to wait while the glue from all the segments dries, but my table saw is not nearly accurate enough to get the pieces to fit together right
Then, please let me offer suggestions. 1. Don't switch to segmenting- keep doing solid. 2.Any table saw coupled with a disk sander can do the 8 segment rings Frank used in this example. 3. Then incorporate into your other projects. More info if you'd like.
Alan
Very impressive! I had no idea it was possible to hand chase double threads by simply slowing down the lathe. That's very interesting. I also appreciate the idea of using a segmented ring to avoid cutting the threads in cross grain. My only concern is how a segmented ring -- which should be dimensionally stable -- would react to being inserted into a 'non-segmented' project, which will move with the seasons. With small rings (and small items), it's probably not an issue. With larger items, it might be.
Grain orientation at joints is absolutely something to watch out for. A segmented ring will change uniformly in diameter. Solid, of course, does not. However, It may be possible for the segmented ring with its glue joint to stabilize the solid somewhat.
That said, if the solid piece is that big, will any thread cut directly into the solid still fit at extremes of humidity.
I'd bet more on the segmented.
Alan
Normally threads can’t be used on very large things. It would be almost impossible to put a lid on something very larger. I have threaded containers up to six inches in diameter. Wood movement doesn’t seem to affect the inserted rings at that size. Larger than that may be a problem, but practically a threaded container that large may be unwieldy.
great demo, i would like to try this looks useful.
You should! - very useful
Alan
I'm not familiar with the term double threads. what does that mean?
It is an advanced technique. For an example, pull out your ketchup bottle. You can start threads at 2 or 3 points on the rim. For now, focus on single start threads.
Alan
@@AsWoodTurns Thanks Alan. That makes sense.
I will stomp my foot and cross my arms like a little kid to thread chasing videos lol. My cheap lathe won't slow past 500 lol. So friction lidded I shall stay haha (for now)
And I just don't have the patience to do segmented!
Well, I guess you'll have to stick to friction for now. Come back when you're ready.
Patience is an acquired virtue. :)
Alan
I have chased threads at 500 rpm. The things that help are: 20 tpi is easier at that speed than 16 tpi. The tool doesn’t move as fast. Turn a longer thread so that the tool can follow the thread before running out. Get a sample thread that you can chuck in your lathe to practice on. Instead of taking six seconds to travel a half inch it may only take four. Practice then practice some more. It is easier than you think. Good luck.
Have a question is there a max. size most show around 3" ?? you do nice work. THANKS
I don't think there is a maximum. Would depend on tpi and diameter and personal choice.
Alan
Yes, a great demo by you and Frank Young. Some questions though. I see they have different size threads, what is a good start for a beginner? Frank mentioned single and double start male threads, I don't know what he means. Also, do you start with the male (outside diameter) and the female (inside diameter) the same before starting to thread? Would you put ca glue on the threads when done, like you do when making a threads for a soft touch? Thanks.
There are different size threads. 20 tpi is fairly fine; 12 is fairly coarse. For a beginner I'd slide towards coarse.
As a beginner, stick to single start threads. As an expert, Frank can cut double threads so that the thread starts twice in the opening. Check your mayo bottle for an example.
Follow the same order as Frank did: female first, then fit the male to the female. Much easier this way.
CA is not necessary with this technique. Would depend on the wood used.
@@AsWoodTurns Alan, he turned the segmented pieces round before threading. Just wondered how much bigger he left the male section. Like I said, didn't know what single and double meant. Thank you sir.
Joseph Wise I explained in the remarks for Glen Campbell how I size my threads. I plan upon doing a video with Alan showing my method of sizing thread to fit a completed project.
Great video Alan as I’m looking to get into thread chasing. I have only one question. Is it because of the segmenting that you are able to use softer hardwoods to accept the threads? An explanation would go a long way. Yhank you!
The answer to your question is in the video description...the side grain of the wood when segmented better supports the thread and makes them less brittle
Absolutely. It is not segmenting per se but segmenting enables the threads to be cut in continuous side grain. Please watch the video again.
Alan
Thanks!