Is Feeding Sugar Syrup Good or Bad for Bees?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 дек 2024
- A discussion at the Coweta Beekeeping Association on the chemistry behind feeding bees sugar syrup and the difference between fresh nectar and honey.
Studies of interest:
Comparison of productivity of colonies of honey bees ... - NCBI." www.ncbi.nlm.n....
J Econ Entomol. 2018 Sep 26;111(5):2003-2010. doi: 10.1093/jee/toy189. Effects of Feeding Honey Bees With Industrial Sugars Produced by Plants Using Different Photosynthetic Cycles on the Colony Wintering Ability, Lifespan, and Forage Behavior.
Lab Comparison of High Fructose Corn Syrup, Grape Syrup, Honey, and Sucrose Syrup as Maintenance Food for Caged Honey Bees Apidologie, 1978, 9 (2), 111-116. Roy J. BARKER and Yolanda LEHNER
EFFECT OF SUGAR SYRUP ON BEE HEALTH
www.saulibrary....
The issue hereh is
Not about " feeding the bees" ,
But
Human greed in taking too much honey from the bees - in the first place.
, ... in return
They give them" glass beeds " ,... and similar historyc equivalent Approaches to "trade".
In the nature bees make honey and survive on their honey during the winter , .for
Millions of years ,..... so ,... only - taking too much
Creates that need for artificial, unhealthy dietary supplement.
Put an equation:
* how many companies make money on
All those products that "help" medicate or & feed bees ..
. and you will easy discover who is DEEPLY (*NOT)- INTERESTED
IN nattural approach, balanced practices, and Health of bees.
Because They make hugeeee money on week and unhealthy bees,
...not on
Natural and healthy feed and conditioned bees !
You are partially right and partially wrong. By your statement I can tell that you're not familiar with enough of the research on feeding bees to make an appropriate judgement.
@@bobbinnie9872 It's pretty obvious he made a perfect appropriate judgement and he's 100 percent right about it. The only time bee's should be fed sugar is in a candy box just for insurance threw cold northern winters. Always give my bees real honey if it was a need hive. To many people into making a quick buck off of piss poor practices vs actually farming/caring for there agricultural animals. Then we have all these RUclips joe blows who keep speeding these piss poor practices, like you Bob.
@@mad_spook Thanks for the comment. I stand by my response.
I'm always amused by those who think that "natural" is somehow the best thing ever. You know what else is "natural"? Nightshade and uranium. Very natural! In fact - nature is not very nice at all. You're probably a city dweller if I were to hazard a guess. You buy your groceries in a store wrapped in plastic. I'm sure they're labeled "organic". You have no clue how cruel nature is. Your only brush with nature is a walk in a park where you might see hand-fed deer or a television show. Let me know if I'm off base here - I'm pretty sure I'm spot on.
You simplify the situation too much so that your statement can easily negated. For millions of years there was no Varroa, no climate change and no intensive farming. These factors made feeding bees to be healthy always more critical. So forget about how it was in the past because it have nothing not to deal with our current situation .
When it comes to natural bee keeping, I remember something I heard from an old bee keeper who had more years in bee keeping than most people have been alive. He said there is nothing natural about bees living in a wooden box.
Very True.
Hahahaha this is the smartest thing I’ve heard this month. Well said :)
Surely if scouts from a swarm were looking for a new home,and they found a nice wooden box with a small entrance, and even better there were frames inside perfect for building wax on, then would they not be tempted to move in?
If a wooden box is not natural , then what is natural about a chimney, or under floorboards in a house, or a compost bin. Bees just choose whatever they deem suitable for a new home. They have no concept of what is providing that new home.
@@harryhill5999 exactly, how about a barrel, abandoned car, etc, People repeat the stupidest shit.
@@harryhill5999 I think that was rather the point. "It's unnatural from the beginning because you're managing nature deliberately with man made tools and man made homes." It's not about appealing to the gods of nature, it's about being honest with yourself about how your bees are doing depending on what you give or don't give them. If it was so natural for beekeepers to keep bees at all, they wouldn't need face nets, so just focus on rearing great bees, however seems to work best. Sometimes interaction works great, like designing wooden hives bees could never build on their own but can finish with honeycomb and propolis, and sometimes bees can deal with it on their own, and sometimes bees will never survive unless you intervene with what would appear to many to be common sense, like feeding starving bees when there are no flowers.
First year beekeeper and I cannot put into words the value of your videos along with others. They have already taught me so much and given me a tremendous head start. As a third generation furniture designer I love detail and you sir provide just that. Thank you! Ohhhh and yes I’m just east of you in beautiful Catawba NC
Thanks, nice area.
Well Bob your presentation on this subject is simply astounding. You take beekeeping and beekeepers deep into the “nucleus of the atom” by explaining the intricacies that allow the bee to survive. It’s so easy/simple to look at bees in a yard and accept what we see as being just a bunch of bees doing what bees do. Or for the beekeepers themselves to observe their bees and have an understanding of what is transpiring. Your drilling down into the fine points of food and its relation to bees and beekeepers really shines a light on survivability of any colony.
Thanks for the kind comment.
Are you the best beekeeper on planet earth?I think you are!I have been working bees for 55 years and you are turning me on to a lot of great info.Keep up your great work.Your new name is Bob The Grand Master BeeMan!
Thanks.
Thanks for the quote that we need to provide forage 4 Hour bees if it doesn't already exist. So many others on RUclips are telling inexperienced beekeepers just start raising bees without telling them to look around and see if there is anything for the bees to harvest around their area. Thank you and may all beekeepers hear your voice and every time you make another video you will suggest to new beekeepers to check their area or something get the bees can Harvest on year-around not just in the spring or in early summer but all year long or plant number of Acres for them to harvest from everyday of the growing season until winter. And may God bless you and all beekeepers because all of our bees are our employees.
Just started keeping bees. Thanks for the info.
Good luck!
Nice work on this presentation Bob. Balanced and informed. Rare, to say the least.
Thank you.
When anyone uses ABSOLUTES I turn and run. No one bee guru has raised and kept bees for years in every region and every climate during every weather condition. And really, until they have….they only know, ABSOLUTELY, what works for THEIR system in THEIR location with THEIR bees. Until then I will continue to take advice from MANY local beekeepers and use what works for MY bees. Thanks for the balanced approach and the good advice. It is always refreshing to hear from someone who knows a lot…and knows what he doesn’t know. 🙏. (Oops! Had to rewind your video a bit…had to go out for a ‘cleansing flight’…)
👍🙏
I learnt a lot from this speech
And thanks for sharing this
Thank you.
Interesting and informative. I am fascinated by your knowledge of bees.
I like this guy,he has given a very balanced anology of the subjuct..its the same arguments that exist in human nutrition, the same stuff that makes you sick can heal you in a different situation, for as a beekeeper and a herbalist its all about 'balance'.
At 12:18, I just heard the coolest thing ever, sustained antiseptic. Thats why they say raw honey (non heated) is so good for you. As for which is best, sugar syrup or honey for bees, bees have lived for thousands of years on honey as a food source over winter. But use sugar to feed them, if they need it.
Great teacher, and I think he even looks and sounds like Kenny Rogers!
Hi, I’m from Sri Lanka and here we have Apis cerana. Apparently, there hasn’t been much research done for this breed. I’m a beginner for bee keeping and really excited to know more about bee pollination, honey production and bee reproduction in a climate where there’s no seasons just dry and rainy periods in weather.
A great presentation, I learned a lot. One humble suggestion, to you and everyone else who posts this kind of content: The first part of the video should contain the date it was produced or released, and the part of the world where it originates. Bee information that works in Louisiana may be of limited use in Quebec. It would help to know where your bees live !
Good idea. Thank you.
If you look under the title of the video, it shows the date the video was posted. If you read the video description, you will see that it states the lecture was at the Coweta Beekeeping Association.
i live in a small island. I got a hive of bee that was almost kill by the rain. There where sick and had no honey. I gave them a mix of herbs and sugar mix now there are strong and healthy. once they get there straight back they will be good.
I find it very interesting to listen to you. Lot's of good information!
Wow, I really appreciate your explanation, its very simple and clear. Thank you I would like to hear more from you🙏
this is an incredibly valuable video!
thanx Bob!
Very good video and discussion! Thank you for sharing!
Thank you Kaylee.
Another like, Bob. Thank you so much.
A great video, technical, yet accessible, no annoying mucin, lots and lots of info.
Thank you
Subscribed, Saved & Liked
Absolutely fascinating
Our Maine fall honey seems very hard on them compared to pure sucrose for the long winter. Aster and goldenrod crystallize right in the comb and adding sugar helps in my case.
Most people vent all the moisture out the top of the hive. Makes it hard to break down the crystallized honey on those cold winter days.
Very good talk. a man after my own heart.
Thanks
How to Keep Bees and Sell Honey was the first Bee book I ever read too. Still have a couple of copies of that book.
It is what inspired me to get into beekeeping. 👍
Thank you for the lesson Bob. Very interesting and educational. I would listen for hours ....
Thanks.
Good talk on common sense beekeeping. We need more of this and not someone just preaching their best way. Thank you for posting this.
Thanks for the comment
This has to be the most interesting “nonstandard” beekeeping talk I’ve ever listened to. Thank you.
One minor point that I couldn’t ascertain was regarding glucose oxidase. As the name would imply it’s only acting on the glucose after the invertase has created the split. If my assumption is correct then what of the fructose and where is it in this process? Or is there even an answer to this question?
Hi Steve. To be honest I hesitate to say because I don't know enough to be sure. Interesting question though. I have a chemist friend that I'm going to ask. If I learn anything helpful I'll report back.
@@bobbinnie9872 Just camping here should you be able to find anything, Bob. Thanks for the great talk.
Bob, if you're still fielding questions regarding this content, have you had any additional exposure via research or colleagues about the differences of the sugar type used to make the syrup? It would appear refined white sugar is the cheapest sugar source, however are there any known nutritional inversion gains using a product like Sugar in the Raw?
Raw sugar can actually be hard on bees. In the deep south, where the bees fly most days in winter and are able defecate often, it's not as bad as in the north where the undigestible solids can cause dysentery.
You might find our video "The Chemistry Behind Feeding Bees Part 1" interesting. ruclips.net/video/aN428TJpDuw/видео.html
I use sugar syrup when it is evident that the bees are heading for starvation. One thing I do is supplement the syrup with trace minerals, vitamins, etc. I have done this for years and very seldom lost a colony. Bees like any other creature have to have proper nutrients for maintaining health, no nutrient no life. I use to see a lot bees in the late summer would suck up dog urine, why? They needed salts being found in the urine from animals. I started putting out water feeders with Himalayan Salt. The bees took to it like a duck on a June bug. Pretty much took care of the bees looking for urine to get salt.
Larry, I am beekeeping in France. What you say is interesting. What minerals and vitamins do you add?
Larry, can i dissolve one human Multivitamin per gallon of water? (2gal of mix). Would that be safe? Wouldn't want to over-mineralize them and give them kidney stones or something. I could also maybe thrown in a couple tablespoons of soy-protein powder? (vanilla-flavored). would that work? what do you use?
Great presentation and appreciate the insight. Truly a lot to be learned. Paul of Alberta
Thanks.
How to prevent the sugar syrup for fermenting ? whats the temperature we have to keep it ?
Below 52f works.
Thank you
When are you coming to Savannah to the Outland wildlife reserve, am from Guyton Georgia i have about 50 bee hives i being watching your videos am hooked you mande beekeeping very simple thanks
so when we feed sugar syrup in winter on the pail, do i have to put pollen patties there to help them the way you saying? sorry i got a bit confused, i thought only 2:1 sugar syrup would be enough! In Ontario Canada
I would not feed syrup in Ontario in the winter. I would try to have all my feeding done before fall was over. Pollen patties aren't absolutely necessary when feeding syrup but some people choose to use them if the bees are lacking pollen coming in or pollen in the comb. I like to feed in the fall while there is still some pollen coming in.
@@bobbinnie9872 thank you. I will feed them some syrup till the fall, if they take it, than remove to close for the winter. Thanks for your support videos
I learn a lot from you.I am a first year bee keeper.
Thanks.
Just got my first nuc and tried setting it up with an in hive feeder (bucket with pin hole ) was disaster cause it all leaked out overnight and flooded hive .maybe I didn't seal the lid completely so was no vacuum. I'm trying an external one today
Hi, in the thumbnail, when you refill the syrup doesn't it drown bees ?? Mines hang inside even if there is no sugar sometimes.
At times a few. We'll flush most of them up and out.
There’s always that person who doesn’t understand lectures have a Q&A section at the end and interrupts
Thank you for sharing this!
Bob,
How do you not end up with sugar water in the honey supers? Will the bees not move the sugar water up into your honey supers?
By the time we put honey supers on the bees they are still consuming any syrup we may have given them. We're careful not to feed in such a way that syrup will not get in the supers. The Georgia Department of Agriculture occasionally does a surprise test of our honey for adulteration and we've never had a problem. Timing is the key.
So as long as you dont feed them syrup while honey supers are on, the bees won't contaminate the honey with syrup right?
Amazing content. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hi, I saw the video. How Does Candy Compare to Sugar Syrup? is it just as effective?
Candy does a better job of sustaining a light colony in winter without introducing extra moisture. Thin sucrose syrup is stimulative and candy is not. Colonies can gain weight easily with syrup but candy.
An older man summed it up to me I quote " Bees bring in pollen and nector so if they are not bringing it in you must" Now I do this with success cheers
Thanks
So if you have dearth’s every year at the same time how will you know if your bees can adjust if we are always feeding?
@@nkapiariesjeffbeezos796 When the supers are on I donot feed other wise always a feeder on
"I don't think "normal" dearths are a problem. Bees do adjust to normal local conditions. Catastrophes happen when things are abnormal such as a dearth that is severe or extended or a location that has been stripped of much that is natural. I feel it can be prudent to feed when needed at times like these in order to keep your bees alive. It can also be helpful to feed during a normal dearth if you are a high production outfit and need to keep things going or growing. This of course doesn't have much to do with adapting bees to local conditions and has more to do with keeping your bees healthy and robust so they can produce what you need, when you need it. There is merit to both approaches, it just depends on what your needs are.
If I heat the sugar syrup(not boiled it) it will dissolve the sucrose to fructose and glucose. Is it better to use this kind of syrup(inverted)? All beekeepers I asked about that, said that sucrose syrup will "physiologically exhaust" the bees, and If you feed late in the autumn that will be the wintering bees. And if I want to fill the supplies for the winter, its better to use "inverted" syrup.
This is a smart question, thank you. It raises even more questions that I may not know the answer too and I'm not a chemist so keep that in mind. Here's what I think I know.
Fresh nectar is mostly sucrose. The bees introduce the enzyme invertase which converts the sucrose to mostly fructose with some dextrose (D-glucose). I believe (not sure) that inverting sucrose with heat converts it to dextrose and fructose with there being more dextrose than fructose. I do know that feeding bees straight dextrose syrup can give them dysentery. Many beekeepers in the far north actually try to remove all honey that contains high levels of dextrose, like canola, and feed back sucrose syrup because their bees overwinter much better that way. See Ian Stepplers "A Canadian Beekeepers Blog" for more on this. He is in Manitoba. He feeds thick sucrose syrup in the fall and has excellent results overwintering his bees on it.
I like to start feeding thin sucrose syrup (1 to 1) early on so the bees can treat it like incoming nectar, which they do. I begin in early August and feed every few weeks leading up to mid fall. Keep in mind that the invertase that the bees introduce will continue to work until the sucrose level is 5% or less.
I have, and know many other beekeepers that have, excellent results feeding sucrose syrup and I don't believe it physiologically exhausts the bees because it simply works so well if done right. I believe sucrose syrup is the closest substitute feed that we have to fresh nectar and I use it as a tool to accomplish a number of things and don't hesitate to use it.
I know I didn't answer your question directly and I hope this helps more than confuses. Again, thanks for a smart question.
Thank you for your prompt answer. I`m not chemist also, but I believed that the process of converting is called "sucrose hydrolysis", and if sucrose is one molecule fructose and one molecule glucose I would expect two get 'even parts' of them. If you are right then there has to be something about that chemical process that burns/eats/removes some of the fructose molecules. I will dig into that topic. I already checked the blog you mentioned maybe this ruclips.net/video/ixmovAZXeyk/видео.html will answer some of the questions.
As a beginner beekeeper your videos are really valuable. Thank you!
Mr Binnie, I really like your top feeder method. I have a question. Are your jar tops solid one piece tops, or two piece canning type tops. If solid, where do you find them? I was thinking when we are not feeding and using the two piece type it might let rain enter in?
They are one piece 70mm metal caps that are found in many of the beekeeping supply catalogs.
Thank you
I only want honey for personal use to eat or for medicinal purposes. I wouldn't be harvesting all of the hives honey before winter. But want to be sure if one hive may run short of food what natural feed or fructose can I make to help feed the bees through winter or to warmer weather and they are able to collect pollen in nature?
Could you avoid feeding sugar if you left some honey on them?
Yes, as long as they have enough.
I'm not a beekeeper, but because of the terrible drought in Texas, wild honeybees in my area are incredibly hungry. They were swarming my hummingbird feeders, so I decided to buy a bee feeder to help them out. I've just been filling it with my hummingbird nectar (1:4 ratio). Is this helpful to the bees?? Would love some insight from those who are knowledgeable on this topic.
That's a thoughtful thing to do. It could be helpful. The bees would certainly like it. It could also contaminate honey crops for any beekeepers that may be nearby.
Hi Mr. Binnie, Do you have any information about how long 1:1 sugar syrup lasts while in the feeders? Also, will spoiled sugar syrup harm bees in any way? I am a new beekeeper trying to get my hives through this season. All three of my hives were started in May from nucs. Unfortunately I can only feed my hives every other weekend due to work constraints. Is there any issues that could arise from leaving sugar syrup in the hive for 2 weeks? I use 1.5 gallon feeders that are similar to the rapid round feeders. I have been feeding them since I started the hives. I was planning on feeding until they have made significant progress on their second deep box. It being 95 degrees some days in Southeast NC makes me worry about spoilage.
Hi Sean. Your concern is justified. At those temperatures it will begin to ferment within days. Just like humans. bees can metabolize small amounts of alcohol but too much will make them sick. We are currently putting the equivalent of 1 teaspoon of bleach in our 1 to 1 syrup which buys us a few extra days, It does not hurt the bees at all. Additives like Honey B Healthy also will retard fermentation but you have to be careful not to start robbing with it because bees are highly attracted to the lemongrass oil in it.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thank you so much for the tips!
Interesting talk. Can you post the links to some of the studies you mentioned on feeding? Interested in the one that compared hfcs vs sucrose.
There are a bunch if you look for them. Here are a few. Comparison of productivity of colonies of honey bees ... - NCBI." www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23886010.
J Econ Entomol. 2018 Sep 26;111(5):2003-2010. doi: 10.1093/jee/toy189. Effects of Feeding Honey Bees With Industrial Sugars Produced by Plants Using Different Photosynthetic Cycles on the Colony Wintering Ability, Lifespan, and Forage Behavior.
Lab Comparison of High Fructose Corn Syrup, Grape Syrup, Honey, and Sucrose Syrup as Maintenance Food for Caged Honey Bees Apidologie, 1978, 9 (2), 111-116. Roy J. BARKER and Yolanda LEHNER
I keep 🐝 as a sideline farmer. This season it seems that I will be sucessful with overwontering. I hope that after 40 - 60% winter losses i will be this season at 99%.
Need to feed and treat throughout season. I just try to stay as ecological as possible.
Visited an apiary and noticed the combs were generally empty. No brood,no pollen no and nectar stored.
Nice channel, thank you for your knowledge. Have you ever tried spirulina powder for pollen /nutirion suppliment? I did add it to syrup and they accepted it and stored green honey syrup.
Love Revolution cool! Thanks for helping bees 🐝. 👍
I am already selecting specific genetics from my bee source. We don't encourage local genetics because it is Africanized Bees. I can not see the harm in "helping bees survive" in drastic weather changes and natural feed shortages. Comments?
Hi Bob. Big fan of yours and I always get great information from your videos. Thank you for being so generous with your knowledge.
You may have addressed this in a video, but I can’t find it. I feel like in one of your videos I noticed pallets of extra fine granulated sugar, 50 pound bags I believe.
EFG is a bit difficult to find locally such that you can pick it up, assuming you’re a modest sized operation like mine that cannot order multiple pallets for a full or partial truckload to control the shipping cost per bag.
But I have observed it is available for pick up at some Sam’s Club locations at a cost per pound about 21% higher than I can get my 25 pound bags of regular granulated sugar.
I have wondered if the extra cost might be worth it as it might offset the cost of heating the water and the time involved. Since I believe you have and maybe still do use it, tell me about your experiences, pros and cons.
For example, would I be able to make a barrel of 2 to 1 syrup in the field using a 12v mechanical mixer but without heating my well water, which is typically about 60° here in the mountains of Virginia.
Hi Randall. I have not used extra fine granulated so I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make. Even efg needs to somehow dissolve though. Basically, my experience has been that the thicker the syrup, the warmer the water needs to be to dissolve it all. With our 1 to 1 room temperature would probably work if it was agitated well, and even the 1.5 parts sugar to 1 water seems to work fine with anything above 120f. My guess is that 2 to 1 would need to have some heat.
What if you put the water in your barrel and use a portable solar panel to drive the 12v mixer? As you drove to your site, the water agitation would also help create the solution.
Great material. I could pick your brain for hours.
Great info as always. Thanks for sharing your knowledge so generously!! Any opinion/information if open feeding or bucked feeding may be bettet then frame feeding as the nest is not in proximity with the humidity, PH and possible fungi in the syrup?
Our preferred method is jars or buckets on top but that's not always convenient for some beekeepers.
Two messages because I accidentally the hit wrong key. Inside feeders don't work well if the colony is small and the temperatures are low. The syrup can get moldy. I if you do use them put them next to the cluster or move the cluster close to the feeder. I don't care for open feeding because it's a bit hard on the bees and can be a mess with mold, hive beetles, etc. Setting out an array of enclosed buckets would be better if your open feeding.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thank you so much for the answer! I have frame feeders and my feeling is that if the bees don't take it in less then 3 days it makes some harm on the brood. Or probably in some cases the harm is already there and that's why they don't take it fast.
@@pachko5418 I agree
when he says heat your honey....how hot is to hot. the inside of a hive is around 100 degrees F. but normal temps to us is closer to 70F.
at what temp do the enzymes die?
When changes or deterioration in honey occur there is always an equation involved. With changes in enzyme activity, time and temperature are both involved. For instance the half life of the enzyme diastase is 14 days at 122°f. At 68°f it is 1000 days and at 176°f it is 30 seconds.
@@bobbinnie9872 that is a fantastic answer! thank you so much.
There are a lot of products online and I don’t want to mess up. Can you tWhat type of sucros syrup product do you use. And really one to one? So half and half? Do you slightly warm everything to get a better mix?
We use granulated cane sugar which is commonly available. We usually make half and half but occasionally mix it thicker if we have to put on weight fast. Our hot water heater is set to 130f and that temperature works good for everything we do. Mixing thick syrup like 2 to 1 or thicker works better with hotter water or longer mix time.
First when I started to keep bees , I came across a lot of info to keep it natural and not to feed your bees and not to treat for mites with chemicals.
The result was that I lost bees. As a matter of fact I got tired of losing bees and tired of having to start over again and got tired to have to pay for bees over and over again and I started to treat for mites and I started to feed the bees.
The heck, dead bees just can not improve on genetics to make them survive better.
Help your bees and treat for mites and feed them well. That is the best steps you can take.
Thanks for the comment.
@@bobbinnie9872 Your welcome.
And thank you for making and posting this video.
One day it hit me. These bee guys would come thru and lecture the club. They're mostly bee suppliers and of course they'd be happy to add you to the package waiting list. Room full of newbees is a freaking gold mine to someone like that.
There are some pro beeks that come thru every year and they are realists with real problems and real solutions.
so my first burning question would be here in Ireland we have a lot of fondant feeding happening. Does the fondant produce the same results as sugar syrup or is there a limit to its usefulness given the bees need to source water to break it down?
First, I have to state that I have not used fondant a lot but I would think that syrup would have a more stimulating affect and would be better feed if fed early enough so the bees could work it up before winter.
It really depends where you live as my Bees are filling new frames that I placed in my split with Honey and it's the middle of Winter here :)
We did four splits only three weeks ago and they have built out four of the five frames we placed in each and already filling three of those.
It's one of the advantages of living in a Sub tropical to Tropical area, our Winters are probably the same as the cold areas Spring :).
HI Mister Bonnie im beekeeper from Europe!!!
I would like to know if in U.S.A you acidify the syrup with citric acid or if you prefer to nourish without acidifying!!can you give me some explanations?thank you
I do know of a few beekeepers that do this but we do not. My understanding is that the addition of enzymes by the bees will bring the PH down without additional help.
@@bobbinnie9872 thank you very much!!
Thank you. An answer with the whys included make it easier to remember the answer.
Hi Bob. Are you putting things like bleach or thymol for prevnting fermentation or syrup getting moldy? Or maybe using some kind of essential oils. In warm weather syrup of 1 to 1 ratio starts fermenting in couple of days. So wonder what tricks do you use. Thank you!
Hi Andrei. We usually use our syrup quick enough so fermenting isn't a problem. We do however put a cup of bleach in every 250 gallon tote. This will buy a couple of days. Honey B Healthy type additives work also but we don't use that unless there isn't any robbing because they can be highly attractive to bees and cause problems.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thank you!
Great presentation and very interesting information. What is your opinion about feeding INVERTED SUGAR to bees. I prepare it boiling water and sugar and add the acid (a lemon) converting sucrose in glucose and fructose, theoretically is more digestive for bees. Can you tell your experience or opinion whether if this is true or a mith? Thank you very much for your time.
I don't have any experience inverting sugar myself so I couldn't report on that but in the past I used an inverted dry sugar product, produced by C&H sugar, called "Drivert". It was excellent, the bees did great on it, and if it wasn't so expensive I would be using it today.
No matter how much sugar is mixed with water or heat is applied, it is very difficult for bees to fully digest it because its molecular structure is large. For this reason, bees cannot eat fully and healthily. In addition, as the undigested sugar is thrown out, it causes financial harm to the producer. Thanks to the syrups produced with Invertase Enzyme, bees eat healthy and spend the winter much more comfortably. (Tekirdağ Namık Kemal University & Trakya University)
The main purpose of invert syrups is to keep the Bee healthy and as complete as possible. On the other hand, preventing the syrup from becoming sugary is important in extending its shelf life, but this should not be the first priority.
After the honey harvest, the food stock in the hives is supplemented with sugar syrups. While transferring the sugar syrup to the honeycombs, the bees break down the sucrose in the syrup into glucose and fructose, using their own biological resources and 23% of the fed syrup for this process. This tires the bees and they enter the winter tired. In order to prevent bee fatigue caused by the processing of syrup, it will be useful to support the bees with prepared foods - for example, inverted sugar syrup. The inverted sugar sucrose breaks down into glucose and fructose, so using such products will be less tiring for the bees. Lithuanian Agricultural Institute (Instituto Aleja 1, Akademija, 58344 Kedainiai distr.)
Some researchers report that there will be no spoilage problem with invert syrup.
Invertase syrup is made by many different methods. Such as organic acids, yeasts, tartars and hydrolysis methods. However, a high quality syrup is obtained by the use of the enzyme invertase to break down sucrose. This enzyme found in honey breaks down sucrose into glucose and fructose. Therefore, it is possible to make invert syrup by using natural honey.
Old honey or insufficiently inverted syrup rich in HMF is not suitable for feeding cicadas, as the substance in question is poisonous to bees. Jachimovicz and Sherbiny revealed in 1975 that HMF was responsible for bee deaths. They report that the amount of 15mg/100g HMF in commercially acid-hydrolyzed invert sugar syrup is lethal to bees. When fed with sugar syrup containing 15mg/100g HMF, an average of 58% of the bees died within 20 days. Amounts of 3mg/100g and 6mg/100g HMF are harmless to bees. As a result, many experts argue that the amount of HMF in invert sugar syrups should not exceed 2mg/100g, which is seen in many honeys. Invert sugar syrup should only be used after controlling the amount of HMF in it.
There is information that invert syrup made with lemon juice, lemon powder or tartaric acid shortens the life of bees. They say it's best to configure it with the enzyme invertase.
No matter how much sugar is mixed with water or heat is applied, it is very difficult for bees to fully digest it because its molecular structure is large. For this reason, bees cannot eat fully and healthily. In addition, as the undigested sugar is thrown out, it causes financial harm to the producer. Thanks to the syrups produced with Invertase Enzyme, bees eat healthy and spend the winter much more comfortably. (Tekirdağ Namık Kemal University & Trakya University)
The main purpose of invert syrups is to keep the Bee healthy and as complete as possible. On the other hand, preventing the syrup from becoming sugary is important in extending its shelf life, but this should not be the first priority.
After the honey harvest, the food stock in the hives is supplemented with sugar syrups. While transferring the sugar syrup to the honeycombs, the bees break down the sucrose in the syrup into glucose and fructose, using their own biological resources and 23% of the fed syrup for this process. This tires the bees and they enter the winter tired. In order to prevent bee fatigue caused by the processing of syrup, it will be useful to support the bees with prepared foods - for example, inverted sugar syrup. The inverted sugar sucrose breaks down into glucose and fructose, so using such products will be less tiring for the bees. Lithuanian Agricultural Institute (Instituto Aleja 1, Akademija, 58344 Kedainiai distr.)
Some researchers report that there will be no spoilage problem with invert syrup.
Invertase syrup is made by many different methods. Such as organic acids, yeasts, tartars and hydrolysis methods. However, a high quality syrup is obtained by the use of the enzyme invertase to break down sucrose. This enzyme found in honey breaks down sucrose into glucose and fructose. Therefore, it is possible to make invert syrup by using natural honey.
Old honey or insufficiently inverted syrup rich in HMF is not suitable for feeding cicadas, as the substance in question is poisonous to bees. Jachimovicz and Sherbiny revealed in 1975 that HMF was responsible for bee deaths. They report that the amount of 15mg/100g HMF in commercially acid-hydrolyzed invert sugar syrup is lethal to bees. When fed with sugar syrup containing 15mg/100g HMF, an average of 58% of the bees died within 20 days. Amounts of 3mg/100g and 6mg/100g HMF are harmless to bees. As a result, many experts argue that the amount of HMF in invert sugar syrups should not exceed 2mg/100g, which is seen in many honeys. Invert sugar syrup should only be used after controlling the amount of HMF in it.
Great lecture!🎉
Good job,I think the natural guy you listen to is from Missouri he promotes never ever feed your bees however he sells frame feeders in his store and says for those times you have to...lol hopefully not same guy, anyway I like all your videos Bob keep them coming I learned a lot from some of your videos your double screen board is pretty slick
Thanks. Not from Missouri.
I think we will soon find out that bees like some people will crash if given too much sugar at the wrong time or overdose is given. This is something that will need to be studied from start to finish of lifespan. They seem to overeat both sugar and pollen. 😳 little pantries. Thanks Bob
I just started keeping bees this year. At first, I didn't know if I should feed my bees. I have watched probably two hundred hours, at least, of videos about beekeeping on here since May and read several studies too. We live in a cedar break. Bees don't eat cedar. I will be feeding my bees ad libitum, both sugar syrup and pollen substitute. If the feeder is empty, it's getting filled, and when it turns cold, I'll be providing them with sugar patties. In the late winter and early spring, it will be pollen patties. There may be areas where you don't have to feed your bees, but where I live, is not one of them. 😅
You may have seen it already but if not check out our video "The Chemistry Behind Feeding Bees Part 1" ruclips.net/video/aN428TJpDuw/видео.html
@@bobbinnie9872 Thank you so much for this link! Very informative :)
Hi fron Costa Rica.
Great Lecture, thank's
Is “Morena Pure Cane Sugar” OK to feed bees? Also, is “White Satin Powdered Amalgamated Sugar” made from beets OK to feed bees?
I'm not familiar with these brands. Granulated pure can sugar is what I use. I have heard that beet sugar is OK but I've never used it. I do know that much powdered sugar on the market has starch added which can give bees dysentery.
What does the bees need for produces wax or for feed the brood? Can they do both just with sugar?
They also need pollen.
Awesome presentation, earned a sub! When you said honey goes bad quickly, how quickly did you mean? I was under the impression that raw honey lasts nearly forever.
Hi Brian. Properly cured honey remains edible but it's unique qualities deteriorate with time. The rate at which it changes is temperature dependent. For more on this see our video "Effects That Processing Has on Raw Honey". ruclips.net/video/owul_Z6ywC4/видео.html. Thanks.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the reply! I'll check out that video.
He said just don't pasteurize it which would kill the enzymes, so if you don't then it'll last forever. They found good honey in egyptian tombs apparently. So just don't heat it and you'll be good i think. The bees get the water out to make it good. Don't mix water into it. (don't know why anyone would...)
Hello, you say that the most useful sugar syrup for bees is in a ratio of 1: 1.3, we know that 1: 1 syrup does not spoil. How are things in this regard at a ratio of 1: 1.3, is it easier to spoil?
Actually 1 to 1 does spoil and 1 to 1.3 spoils also. Some beekeepers add Honey-B-Healthy or lemongrass oil to stop the fermenting until the bees consume it. Bleach works also at one teaspoon per gallon.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the quick response! Bleach 12%?
I really wonder why we don`t use N2O2 to stabilize a 30% sucrose sirup.... would be kind of logic.., no!? Pat
or putting some glucose oxidase enzymes in thin sirup....
Yeah, this debate was going on 50 years ago when I got into beekeeping.
If you need to, feed them.
This man is very knowledgeable. When you present any information you need to give not only information, but a photo array on the back of the screen behind you. Allow for diagrams and products in which you are talking about. Even formulas will help with the visual learners.
May I ask your opinion of glyphosate and bee enzymes? Everyone says roundup has never killed their bees and it's just salt, yet we have scientists with PhDs researching saying it's true. They say that glyphosate keeps the enzymes from being produced therefore weakening the bee and the hive as a whole to fight against all diseases.
All I know is what I've read and the majority of what I've read agrees that glyphosate is bad for bees. It appears that it affects microbes in the bees’ digestive system, therefore making them more susceptible to problems. I was around it some in years past and didn't notice any major problems so maybe it has to do with the level they are exposed to.
I decided not to feed, nor treat my bees, and selecting from the ones that survive. In fact it´s been two years that i don´t collect honey from my collonies. Even so, i find these last years (drought years) they can´t collect enough to survive winter. I don´t have much to select from know. It´s true, we are part of the ecuation. I need to amend now and start feeding, but it is part of the learning.
You only seem to care about the effects of sugar syrup on bees but what about what it does to honey? By pumping your colonies with galons of sugar syrup,and you seem to do it throughout the year, doesn't that affect the honey you sell? Here in Greece they test the honey and if they find larger percentages of sucrose than normal they won't buy your honey.
We are very careful not to feed in such a way that sugar can be in our honey. Our honey is checked and inspected regularly by a variety of government inspectors and has never been found to have any sugar in it. We use sugar to build bees not make honey. We care very much about our honey.
In Canada if you don’t feed sugar for winter you can’t get insurance for winter losses if you leave them with honey insurance won’t cover losses
That is interesting. I didn't know that.
I loved your beekeeping. If you need staff I'm always ready.. Early spring we give 2 sugar 1 water syrup.. (if they eats honey they need water. Honey %18 water but 2/1 syrup %33 water ) Honey bees don't need go out side to find water. Young bees never returned hive because cold weather and when take cold water bees shocked die..) about pollen we take fresh pollen put yoghurt and mix wait 4 degree in refrigerator 12 hours for quick fermentation.. Bees make this 15 day inside comb. This very helpful my old father and i easly gain multi vit and high protein.
I know English is not your first language by your post so I ask this with respect to that.
I did not under stand the part about pollen and yogurt and refrigerator and 15 days. Would you be kind enough to expand your reply that hopefully I can understand what you did,why you did it and what benifit it provided the bees.
Sincerely and thank you
Steve, Murat... was clear enough. His Culture, do this : They add Yogurt to Natural Pollen (I guess they use a Pollen Trap.)
He puts this mix in a Fridge at 4C (39f) for x12Hrs. This mixture 'replicates what Bees make in the Comb after x15 Days'... Simples. 😏
I guess he means 'Bee Bread'!
ie Pollen fermented in Bee Spit, Kinda. 😄
Another Recipe...
Apparently, in Old Greek Times*, way, way back, they mixed Pollen, Honey and Egg Yolks (Protein Punch) to boost Colonies into Brood production.
*Greek Mythology, do at own risk.
Steve, Murat... was clear enough. His Culture, do this : They add Yogurt to Natural Pollen (I guess they use a Pollen Trap.)
He puts this mix in a Fridge at 4C (39f) for x12Hrs. This mixture 'replicates what Bees make in the Comb after x15 Days'... Simples. 😏
I guess he means 'Bee Bread'!
ie Pollen fermented in Bee Spit, Kinda. 😄
Another Recipe...
Apparently, in Old Greek Times*, way, way back, they mixed Pollen, Honey and Egg Yolks (Protein Punch) to boost Colonies into Brood production.
*Greek Mythology, do at own risk.
Bob binnie i love ur youtube videos i watch alot of ur videos
Hello sir
What about glucose is it good for bees or not and is yes is it better that Sucrose
Thank you
First let me say that I'm not an expert on this but here's what I know. D-glucose or dextrose is the second most prevalent sugar in honey, fructose being number one. However, I've read that feeding straight glucose to bees is not good for them. Apparently it messes up their gut. Sucrose is universally considered to be the best feed for feeding bees and the bees have a mechanism for converting it into dextrose and fructose which is more digestable and more soluble. I would choose sucrose for feeding because every study I've read shows it has the best results.
but in nature bees wouldn't be able to access table sugar, which has been said to be cancer causing in both humans and animals. So why is table sugar as harmful to bees? what would be a better natural fructose liquid feed instead of sugar water?
I'm not aware of anything better. Also, table sugar is sucrose which is what fresh nectar is. Keep in mind that the bees needs are much different than humans or animals.
thanks for sharing, listening from africa
Thanks
I learned a lot from this video and I have found much of what you say to be true. I was one of those for awhile who did not treat and avoided feeding my bees and as a result lost a lot of bees. I have gradually fed more and more and this year fed my bees more than ever with good results. They are stronger I think than I have ever seen this time of year.
I did have a question for you...you mentioned that HFCS is bad for bees across the board but did not explain why. Why is that the case? I know many commercial Beekeeper’s feed their bees Corn syrup as well. I mostly fed sugar syrup this year but did feed them with Corn syrup once to put weight on the hives. It seemed to work beautifully and the bees are booming now. Just wondered what is so negative about HFCS? I am not a scientist but it seemed to give my bees a big boost when they really needed it a few weeks back.
Thanks. I subscribed to your channel.
Thanks for your input.
Bob Binnie at Blue Ridge Honey Company hey could you please explain what HFCS is so bad? I had good results with it this year. Mostly fed sugar syrup but the HFCS seemed to really help our weight on the hives and seemed to help put them over the top.
@@brucesbees To be really honest I haven't looked into the chemistry of HFCS and why it does what it does as much as I have sucrose but I do know that every single study I've looked at showed negative results when comparing HFCS to honey or sucrose. That doesn't mean it can't be used, I know many commercial beekeepers that do. It doesn't stimulate the bees as much and they tend to put on more weight than make brood. There may be times when this is a good thing as it will cause less swarming in the spring. I used HFCS a lot in the past and it did seem to cause smaller colonies coming out of winter so I think it would be a poor choice for overwintering on in the north. I have a few friends that mix sucrose and HFCS 50\50 and they like the results and of course HFCS is cheaper.
Bob Binnie at Blue Ridge Honey Company thanks so much for responding. Watched your video on the effects of processing honey today and you made a lot of good points. I like your reasonable approach in explaining some of the dilemmas that present themselves.
I mostly fed the bees sugar water this winter but did feed them them HFCS once about 6 weeks or so ago. I live in southeast Alabama and a friend of mine and myself used it to try and put weight on the hives before we sent some of them out to the almonds (108 total between us). The results seemed to be good, but we are still learning. I am eager to get the hives back and see how they are doing.
It seemed the bees were blowing through the sugar water without storing any but they seemed to store the corn syrup. Interesting stuff. Always learning.
@@brucesbees I hope your bees come back good.
Such a great bit of bee I nfo. Thanks, Bob. But please find someone with video recording skills. The audio sucks!
I think we've made progress since this video was made. Thanks.
I add a liquid B kind of vitamin to sugar syrup and the syrup does not ferment for almost 1 week. It doesn't sour. It doesn't break down
Is organic sugar ok to make sugar water? I hear different opinions. Done some research but nobody really knows.....always enjoy your presentations. Jim in TX
Hi Jim. Organic sugar is usually unprocessed which has excessive indigestible solids for bee feed.
Bob Binnie at Blue Ridge Honey Company: Thanks Bob. That is what I wanted to know. Are there any non GMO sugars that you know of?
I don't know anything about that.
Bob Binnie at Blue Ridge Honey Company :Thanks
What you have to look for, is the content of raffinose in the sugar. If that is fine (what most are), organic white table sugar is fine.
13:00 SUCROSE SYRUP GOOD, TABLE SUGAR. FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP BAD FOR BEES.
16:00 IDEALLY MIX STUDY 1.3 WATER 1 SUGAR
Why not invert the sugar then feed then study?
I remember working bees with my grandfather in Belarus and in a spring we see some problems in a brood like chalk brood or European faul brood my grandfather always said honey flows will take care of it sure enough fresh nectar starts coming bees filling up brood nest with it and it works just like magic
Smart grandfather.
Merci beaucoup pour cette précieuse information .
Vous êtes les bienvenus
Mann lake, is making the pollen patties out of high fructose corn syrup. Buy the pollen buckets and add your table sugar to that. Much cheaper too. MUCH
Not Bob , maybe Kenny R Bro , great info on the feeding of Bees .
Sir my bees are not raisin comb even after feeding ... wt to do now in such situation
Hard to say without being there. Are you bees healthy? Are you using thin sucrose syrup? Do they have pollen for nutrition?.
Great videos and glad I found your channel. How many hives are you running Bob? And do you buy honey from others or do you produce all that you sell or bottle? Also, what is your opinion of pollination compared to raising bees for honey production? Thank you again! John from Kentucky
Hi John. Our numbers last summer peaked at about 2200. After selling a lot of colonies in the fall, as we usually do, and combining weak ones together before winter we went into winter with just under 1000. We will make a lot of splits this spring and run them through our sourwood flow in July, as we always do, and go through the process all over again.
Sorry, I didn't finish your questions. We do buy honey to bottle from other beekeepers we know and trust. It's hard to ignore the big pollination money in California and it's an important part of many beekeepers cash flow. Pollination is also sure money in a bad honey production year and this may be important if you have payments to make.. It's also hard on the bees and moving is hard on equipment. Lately, we've chosen to produce local honey sell and bees and feel less stressed.
what choice do you have if all pollen is gone
Pollen supplement or substitute.