To me the worst part of the movie is when Hardin's mom said that his nightmares went away when he met Tessa. It implies that no matter how awful he is to her, Tessa is obligated to stay with him and be a substitute for therapy. It is also dismissive of Hardin's severe mental illness because "love can fix him."
@@spectre9340 I didn't see them, but I heard that he was molested as a teenager and they never properly addressed it, even saying that he and the woman who assaulted him were "still friends." Disgusting.
@@journeymathews6275 okay so in Fifty Shades, Christian Grey was sexually abused by his mom's friend when he was 15 and it went on til he was 20. But he's also got PTSD from when his crackwhore mom got killed by her pimp in front of him when he was 4. In Fifty Shades Darker, Anastasia gets told by Christian's therapist that his PTSD-related nightmares only went away because of her. Totally illegal of him to divulge that information and also inappropriate to spring that on her.
@@spectre9340 tbh, Christian's therapist is the worst therapist in the world, showing that EL james understands therapy as much as she does BDSM, which is not at all
and this is why i continue to drag anna todd. she has numerous girls thinking that this kind a behavior is cute. there's nothing cute about it it's scary.
She may somewhat disclaim Hessa being acceptable and good but her fans don’t see that. I saw a girl say that the more toxic a relationship is the better. Julia read us a tweet saying that their relationship was realistic. Anna needs to make sure her audience knows that she’s not writing a book about a healthy or acceptable relationship and it’s not a realistic relationship either.
if you look at the movie trailer's comment section, there's a lot of ppl commenting things like: "mE: tOxIc rElaTiOnshiPs AreNt foR mE alSo mE: oMgGg i ShiP hEssA!1!1! hEsSa hAvE tO be tgT thEy Are MeAnt fOr eAchOtHerRr" also other comments about how "perfect" this movie is, and how they "dEpiCt hOw reAL loVe woRks" it's disappointing. honestly very VERY disappointing.
Don’t you just love the story of a girl that cheats on her boyfriend with a dude she had to kick out of her room cause he refused to leave while she was changing
@@tristanyupukoni6453 My dude from there we go down not up, that plot point is just the cherry on top. There's a whole other sunday below it, four scoops of Toxic Drama and Unnecessary Intentions, two manipulation bananas, under that is Abusive Behavior Flavor (Anna's fave), and for the frosting on top is four books and one spin off. All of that with a side of lonely rainy montages of them breaking up and getting back together all. the damn. time.
Because a lot of them are written by young women and young women are raised in a patriarchal society that teaches them they're only good if they're good girls - demure, quiet, and of service to the men around them. Boys will be boys, but girls don't fuck too many people because then they won't make decent wives. Boys get to be rambunctious and free-spirited, girls should play nicely. Your brothers don't need to do the dishes, but you do, little Sally. For many women, it takes a bit of work and growth to shed those notions and instead live freely and see men as equals.
@@bubblegumplastic Okay no 😂 I’m a woman and “sl*t shaming” is just a product of humans competing with each other. She wants the same man another woman is going after, so she trashes her reputation to make her less desirable. It’s the same reason why guys compete and fight over women 🤷♀️
@@bubblegumplastic I said other WOMEN do it for competition, jealousy and many other things. Your family doing it obviously is tension or some other affair that’s going on and they’ve chosen you as an outlet for the aggression.
@@monkeyming5545 Young women are slut shamed by their relatives all the time. Your skirt is too short, what will people think of you, don't sleep with that boyfriend, etc. It's just built into our society.
@Dee Ayy Why Night Productions I think because they hate each other and because of their characteristics. There were also a scene (at least in the original fanfic), where Tessa & Hardin, after a big fight, are sitting in literature course and they read Pride & Prejudice for it. The whole thing in the scene escalated into yet another fight between them after they discussed the characters there and so on. Anna Todd made no secret that she tried to make parallels to Pride & Prejudice. Emphasis on tried.
Let's see, Hardin is a guy who seduced a young girl into bed for his own benefit and satisfaction, for money, even... Mr darcy could never. I do see some similarities with Wickham though.
am i surprised that afters fanbase is largely misogynistic toward the women in the book and also the women behind the film adaptation???? no that’s like saying water is wet
Anna Todd's statement kind of... confuses me. Like, what is the point of After, then? It's a "love story" without love, and a "romance" where the main relationship is too terrible to root for. And yet unlike other stories centering on unhealthy relationships, it doesn't try to deconstruct romance tropes or make commentary on society or anything like that. It's just showing a toxic relationship... and that's it.
Honestly it seems to me that she just wanted to write some Harry Styles sex scenes, filling the rest in with general plot points from well known movies, and just went along with it as it started getting popular. I mean, keep in mind that she didn't write it as a screenplay or even a book, it was a fanfiction on a website with little standards (not trying to insult people who write for wattpad or anything, I just mean that the stories don't have to go through editors, publishers etc. as far as I know). I imagine she went along with it as it got more famous, but was never really prepared with answers/insights as a professional author
Just read it as porn with more developed characters and for straight women only. Thats a large part why its popular. When I see the like this its actually not that bad. I mean everbody has a secret kink and if thats a toxic dude then so be it. As long as u can differentiate reality from fiction.
I mean it doesn't even need a commentary on their relationship it just needs to avoid glamourizing it. Take for example euphoria, literally everyone but Maddy and Nate see how detrimental their "bonnie and clyde" dynamic is, it's brought up by both parental figures and friends. The show itself is visually appealing with the set designs, lighting, camera work, etc. but not once do they give off the message of "love is meant to be like this". Even the narration makes things clear to the audience, "It's not the abuse that scared her, it's the fact she'd still love him no matter what he did"
OH MY YESSS, I do think she says those things to make more acceptable the fact that she is promoting toxic relationship and abusive boyfriends to her audience
Is writing about toxic romance wrong? not really as long as you use enought self-awareness but After puts this relationship that is based on nothing but sex and they fight the rest of the time and has the nerve to put a character to say "your relationship is toxic" (quite cringey) and say "well, you are wrong! our love is PASSIONATE! INTENSE! AND BIGGER THAN ANYONE ELSE!". And it´s so soo pretentious . Edit: wait, After´s fandom actualy think that is good? unironicaly?
Exactly! I always use the show THIS IS US as a great example of how to portray a toxic romance and not romanticize it. Example: When Kate (the daughter) was in college, she had an abusive boyfriend, and yes, they did show scenes of them having “good times” (him giving her a gift, them singing a duet in the car, etc.), but for every good thing, there were multiple bad things, and the show never wrote them as a couple that we were supposed to ship. The show never came across like “OMG HE CAME BACK FOR HER AFTER THROWING HER OUT OF HIS CAR AND LEAVING HER ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD!!! GOALS!! 😍” And in the end, she left him and later in adulthood, married a guy that actually loved her.
@@sab714 I love that show and I was watching those episodes right after watching After We Collided, because the way the relationship was portrayed with Kate and that guy seemed similar in some way to Tessa and Hardin's, except After does seem to romanticize it while This Is Us doesn't.
"after" romanticizes it big time. They get spontaneously married in the end of the last book after not seeing each other for two years... And there's a lot of points in the book that excused Hardin's behavior and his "perfectly imperfect" romance
I don't know if this meets the requirement, but the movie Blue Valentine portrays a toxic relationship that is tragic. The couple fight each other and don't get along after they married, but as the movie shows flashback of how happy they truly were, the movie makes you wanted for them to get along and stay happy together. After on the other hand, just makes me wanted to wish they get slap in the face cause how badly written they are (and their stupidity aren't well written either despite fans claiming "well they are teens!".
@@TwelvetreeZ I've noticed comments on other videos as well calling him a good actor, with a lot of people bringing up his part in Harry Potter as a defence which, sure, he did fine, but he was also like 10(?) years old and only had a few lines. I don't want to be mean, but a very minor role in one film doesn't mean he's up to the level of a lead actor of a trilogy
not just teens..anyone can do it, usually its adults that open the idea of abusive relationships up to teens through fanfics, books, TVs, movies, etc, which causes them to think it's normal and want something like that from themselves so they can live that stressful but glamorized "y/n life"
this movie was so bad and so awkward and for what? harry styles has made so many claims about how uncomfortable he is by it and they still made it a movie smh
i keep hearing this but, try as i might, i can't find him ever commenting on it? every article i see says he hasn't made a statement about it. what am i missing? do you have a link?
@@juliacudney he doesn't respond specifically to fan fics, but in I believe his 2019 Zane Lowe interview he talked about how he cant even think about people sexualizing him and seeing him in that light because it makes him very uncomfortable. But this was in response to a question about how he is considered a sex symbol
So After had a woman director who tried to polish the source material into something palatable, only to be replaced by a man to make a follow-up that lives down to its reputation. It's the 50 Shades movies all over again.
@@bubbles4897 It still has a lot of yucky stuff, but it's infinitely much better compare to this second movie (seriously, the dude who play Hardin sounds so bad in the argument scenes).
why... in the bowels of hell... do teen movies (and fifty shades) ALWAYS get sequels in which the female director from the first film is replaced by a male director??? have we learned NOTHING from twilight AND to all the boys i loved before???
For 50 Shades, El James forced the original director off the project because she DARED to try to make the story tolerable. James hired her husband to the rest
@@athenajaxon2397 to be honest it’s not like having a female director would’ve been much better. Mostly bc the source material wasn’t that good to begin with
Kind of hypocritical of Anna Todd to say: "After is not a dating guide". So what? We can't criticize the story because of that? Sure, no one who reads the book or watches the movie should interpret the characters' actions as a to do list, but she can't deny that the overall message of the story is bad boy=hot. There are a million other stories that show characters behaving terribly (even worse than those two) but the difference between After and those stories is that you know that those characters are bad people. I mean, the whole reason why the author of Dangerous Liaisons had to kill off his characters at the end is because they were "bad". Hardin and Tessa may "not be role models" but it's pretty clear that the audience is supposed to empathize with them and root for them. When he grabs her or screams at her we're supposed to think "Oh that's hot" instead of "He's an a-hole". And when Tessa says to another girl "You're a whore" and then assaults some poor random guy a few minutes later, we're not supposed to be like "She's terrible" we're supposed to think "Oh she's a qUeEEeEeeN!!!". I get that Anna just wants to write whatever she wants, and she has all the rights to do that. If she wants to write a story glorifying abuse it's fine, but she should also accept the criticism that comes with that.
I agree with you in all except one thing. Writing a work that glorifies abuse (which then turns out to be a massive hit, thus very influential) should not be someone’s “right”. The impressionable young people, mainly girls because that was the book’s target audience, read the series and watch the films and they, either subconsciously or willingly, idolize the relationship portrayed in them. Yes, they do recognize the toxicity in some degree but several harmful messages, whether it was intentionally or not does not matter, have been passed onto them. I know a few girls who have told me, and I quote, “Omg Tessa and Hardin’s relationship is SO romantic! I want a relationship like that!” and many other similar things. They are being taught, shown in fact, that if you stick long enough in an abusive relationship then the abuser will change because they love you. That’s not true. It’s a very harmful message. It saddens me to think how many viewers have believed it, romanticised it even!
I genuinely couldn’t imagine the two of them in a normal situation or having a normal conversation without it ending in a fight. What kind of basis is their relationship even on? They literally have no foundation, common interests other than the cliche good girl wants the bad boy. When they all wears off, then what? There’s literally nothing there. Another annoyance was that that after every single fight and then they’d just sleep together as tho that would make all their problems disappear. Like dancing around any of their problems but never really resolved any of them and I mean any of them. They literally either didn’t mention it again but it was still a problem or just left it hanging. Also this isn’t even about the story but the actor of Hardin was so freaking awful it was hilarious at some times. His accent sounds like someone faking a brutish accent really badly but I was even more shocked to discover he really is British???
Bro I agree with everything you said. I mean from the get go they're a failed relationship because they literally have nothing in common other than they read and they feel sexually attracted to each other. Like there's no chemistry between them and the only exciting parts is when they argue, because that's the only action that ever happens besides them having sex all the time. Which is super annoying because they take that anger out on sex, which is all the dang time. I mean that's literally the reason why no one roots for them other than After stans ofc. There's nothing to root them for and this goes on for like four books. Also sorry that this is turning into some kind of rant but Tessa reeks of toxicity. She's just as fake and bad as Hardin's accent lmao
NewKidOnTheBlock I feel this entirely cause I think Hardin gets all the hate but Tessa is just as problematic af. Her cringey ass “aRe yOu A wHoRe?!” like she did something when she was sleeping with Hardin while with Noah??? She is so annoying who thinks she’s on some sort of pedestal but at least Molly wasn’t and isn’t in a committed relationship with someone else? And doesn’t string people along because god forbid he’s a loving, good kid human being She reeks of superiority and thinking she’s better than other people when she is annoying af. Hardin gets all the smoke when she’s right there
Frida Han Trevor was way better. Imagine someone putting in the time and effort to find you a car, negotiate a good price/payment plan, and also negotiate with the company to cover your insurance for your boyfriend and you you choose the guy that forgot your birthday and manipulated you.
The section where the characters kept repeating the "forgiveness" mantra really freaked me out. When you've been abused, that's the mindset your abuser puts you in. Anna Todd can say all she'd like about not writing a dating guide and it's "just a story" but the teenage girls watching this could internalize those messages. I know I already dealt with a lot of guilt from my personal life without having pieces of media tell me "you should forgive your abuser without any evidence of them changing because they're a better person now, because they said so !!"
Yeah. There's always so much emphasis on forgiving people, when that's up to the victim to decide. We treat people badly if they aren't able to forgive, as if forgiveness is owed instead of earned or conditional.
It also seems to blur the line between forgiveness, acceptance, and tolerance. You can forgive someone for how they treated you so it doesn’t hold power over you, you can accept that’s the way they are so you don’t hurt yourself trying to make them change, but you shouldn’t tolerate toxic behavior. The terms might be related, but they don’t mean the same thing and are definitely NOT enacted the same way.
@@graceboulet5316 i agree, so many people mistake forgiveness as tolerance that it's hard for me to say that i forgive someone even tho I would never go near them ever again
The sexual assault scene freaked me out so much, I cannot believe they put that in a movie marketed for teen girls then tried to spin it as "hot" or whatever
I hate the fans of this series. Imagine being angry that there isn’t enough x rated content. And then there’s 10:10 where they legit are saying that After is a realistic series like realistic of what exactly? Clearly a bunch of suppressed 12 y/o. No normal person that is above the age of 12 would thing this way
@@nkirukaj2384 so don't make Wattpad movies in general😂 If Netflix is really *that* desperate for new ideas, then they should just go look to AO3 for inspiration. I swear that website is a fucking gold mine for great stories, it really should've gotten all the attention Wattpad has smh
@@mariunfabregas7533 don’t act like there are NO good stories on wattpad. And I’m pretty sure that Netflix only goes there cuz it’s popular, if they knew about AO3 they’d be there too
@@nkirukaj2384 I'll admit that there are _some_ good fanfictions there, but you have to skim through so much garbage just to find them. None of the most popular YA romance stories are good either. Not a SINGLE one. In conclusion, AO3>>>>>>>>>
jenny gage was such a better director omfg the scenes flowed better, the movie felt like a movie and not like a straight book, the cinematography was so much prettier
Agreed. And I just find it so funny how people only hated her because she didn’t put in the sex scenes they wanted. Like I get that’s all they get besides the toxic relationship stuff but god, they’re desperate.
ok but the can we also talk about the most iconic line, "i'm drunk, uncomfortable, and i saw a tampon on the ground." i sent that to my gm and had to laugh because at times i forget how disgusting going to bars and clubs was pre-covid.
Writing about toxic romances is fine as long as the text is aware that it’s toxic. 50 shades is a bad example because the text (aka the author) continuously validates the characters’ awful behavior and makes hand-waved excuses for Grey’s abusiveness. After is at least aware that the relationship is bad but it doesn’t do a good job at creating a story with that premise. It’s just fuck, argue, fuck, argue, rinse and repeat. It’s not deep. It’s not reflective. It’s just badly written and has zero plot. Edit: a really good example is Killing Stalking, a webcomic about an extremely abusive relationship between a serial killer and his stalker. The text never paints the relationship as good. It’s very well aware that it’s problematic.
I’m fine with people liking unhealthy relationships as long as they are aware that those relationships are toxic and don’t try to excuse the toxicity away. My problem comes when people try to say that relationships like Tessa and Hardin are more realistic because they aren’t perfect, when there are so many more ways to write realistic relationships while still having them be healthy. Conflict in relationships doesn’t need to come from couples breaking up and then getting back together, there are a lot of other ways to do it. I’m tired of people trying to play it off like toxic relationships are actually more real. It’s fine to like toxic relationships but also acknowledge that that stuff is toxic instead of coming up with a way to say that it’s realistic or trying to excuse a characters actions.
Fr, I am so tired of writers getting two characters together and then breaking them up every time there’s conflict. Breaking up and getting back together over and over is very unhealthy and should not be romanticized, and yet it is :(
i think my biggest problem with After is that it’s targeted towards teens, you know? like when a “problematic” movie is targeted towards adults, it’s not as big a problem because most adults have better critical thinking. but movies such as Twilight and After are for easily impressionable teenage girls. i don’t think it’s wrong to watch the movies, i mean i watch Twilight for the fun of it. i know full well that it’s problematic, and i watch it to poke fun and get a few laughs (and for Robert Pattinson). i did the same with After. but it still makes me worry for other teen girls who don’t have 3 older sisters to tell them the difference between a toxic relationship and a healthy one
nitpicking lit student here. did Anna Todd compare her novel to "The Taming of the Shrew" and not realise how hypocritical that sounds? A play about toxic relationships & the powerplay in relationships, while her book doesn't punish the main characters' toxic behaviour?? What's not clicking??? And the Wuthering Heights & Pride and Prejudice reference, yeah that isn't in After (or Cruel Intentions that she is referencing to). Maybe Heathcliff's horrid behaviour toward Catherine, but they're punished at the end, they don't fully romanticize his behaviour. Which Anna Todd clearly does. And Pride and Prejudice. I'll will not start with that because I'm doing my thesis on it & dearly love the novel, but I watched the debate Hardin & Tessa had about it and I'm sorry, Anna Todd clearly took the novel at face value & added it to her book as something university students would study. That debate made me cringe sooo hard 😣 it shows no understanding of the novel's underlying themes & issues that women have struggled with when the novel was published. It's a commentary on a wider society, utilized through the town of Meryton & the Bennet family. Sorry for whoever is reading this essay, misrepresentation of Austen novels is my ultimate pet peeve (& people using her characters incorrectly!)
It seems like Todd has taken all this literature at face value. Wuthering Heights is one of my faves, but to treat it as straightforward romance and #couple goals is flabbergasting.
Tessa had the choice of: A) a non-toxic relationship with Zack from the suite life B) a toxic relationship with a british guy who gets mad about everything. She chose FREAKING B!!!!!! She could’ve had Dylan Sprouce! What’s going on in that head of yours girl? That’s like choosing fast food over minestrone soup!
Honestly, the harsh backlash against Jenny Gage is uncalled for and pisses me off. Don't like the direction a project is taking? Fine. You have the right to think that. But don't be an ass and attack the creator. They are human, too, and you should treat them with respect.
@@carlacarrero4975 that's because sp is sexist and literally made an episode where Sakura is being told that she's not "woman enough" because she has flat chest.
@@Mandombb no offense I do get that studio Pierrot did ruined some parts of Sakura but they also ruined most other relationships too it’s not just Sakura that gets ruined the context of the story also gets ruined too and an example of this is naruto vs kakashi in that fight naruto was actually thinking about iruka but they caught that out for some weird reason and as for the boob joke you do realize that most anime tend to do that right its not just in naruto it is also in other anime’s as well for example in fairy tail Wendy always talks about how she wishes her boobs were big ,kaguya sama they did it with kaguya and even Pokémon did it too
@@carlacarrero4975 what? so you think sexist jokes are okay?? i don't care if they change the story or whatever, the franchise has already been ruined anyway. But sexist misogynistic jokes about how women with small boobs and women who can't cook are "nOT wOmANlY enOUgH" which aren't even canon are messed up. if you think that's okay, maybe you're a product of internalized misogyny itself.
The problem with the kissing booth 2 and cheating is that it evilised and punished Noah for being a bit too flirty with a girl but never crossing the line while elle full on made out with another guy in front of thousands of people and yet its treated like a passing thought that isnt important. It acts like a girl cheating is okay and no big deal but its totally okay to get mad and punish men when you THINK they're cheating! Also, lee treats Rachel AWFULLY and shes always expected to forgive him and its a good thing when she does. Also, the way lee keeps treating elle is incredibly toxic and its STILL treated as okay. Personnally, i see the second movie as the worse thing that could happen to the first one.
That's a good point. I mean I think she kissed that guy because she thought Noah was actually cheating on her at the time, but that's not a valid excuse to cheat back. If she had held back and been loyal herself, and if she didn't look through his phone without him knowing, I would've sided with her completely.
Both of you are amazing, I was watching Bad Movies & A Beat and was looking at the comments and people was taking Elle side even though it didn’t show Noah actually cheating on her with the other girl not once.
@@Asia_03060 That's because Kennie decided that Noah being a bit too close to another girl is a valid excuse for elle to go makeout with another dude in front of him and thousands of people. Its not okay to cheat on ANYONE, especially if you have no proof of them actually cheating.
yeah, I hate everyone in kissing booth 2 besides Marco. my big problem with Noah was that he brought Chloe over for Thanksgiving. like whatttttt was that
Because despite the toxic similarities the characters are more well rounded in the sense that the antagonist redeems himself through confession and ultimately death and because there isn't this constant back and forth between ryan phillippe and annette in cruel intentions that subliminally alludes to his faults being deemed as okay. but thats not to say that they aren't similar, its just one in my opinion does a better job in terms of execution
Cruel Intentions is one of my problematic favorites. I never would have noticed any similarities to After if not for this video. Cruel Intentions is all kinds of dated and messed up, but there's wit, a pace that's just the right speed, solid acting, and a killer soundtrack. After and its sequel don't seem to have any of the following.
Ok but After could have been such a good movie (and book) if it ended with Tessa learning from her Hardin experience and becoming more aware of toxic relationships, and it could have ended with her moving on while becoming a better person. It could have been a great cautionary tale but no bad boy Harry Styles go brrr
Okay, if you After stans are saying that "its only a book! Its only fiction! Why are you guys not hating on books that has murder plots but you hate this?" Bruh. It's about how they represent this movie or book. Of course everyone knows murder is illegal and the movie/book is showing that murdering is bad, but this? This movie was telling you that this kind of thing is normal. Its not telling you that this kind of movie is immoral, theyre freaking romanticizing shit like this. And I hate the fact that they're not mad at Tessa. Like the girl cheated? They even support this Hardin and Tessa's relationship.
I have a friends who has read all the After books, and now she's dating an abusive asshole who she takes to the cinema to see the After movies. This isn't a scientific study, but maybe the media she consumed influenced her ideas on what is and isn't healthy in a relationship. Anyhow, I choose not to ignore any of the plot points from Gossip Girl (except the finale), because I still believe that Blair and Dan are soulmates and Dan wouldn't have traded Blair for a hotel. Yes it's 2020 and I'm still defending Dair, it's a hard life shipping a couple that only lasted for a handful of episodes.
After is really problematic. I’ve known real guys personally like Hardin - I know that it’s just a movie but it’s a very hard friendship/relationship to pursue. They manipulate and make you feel insecure and like everything you do is wrong. This video is sooo correct and right as to why After and relationships like Tessa and Hardins are problematic.
I haven’t even read these books and I already hate them. I’m so tired of watching these authors create these toxic, dangerous relationships and selling it as “true love”. It sends such a bad message to young women that they have to put up with that much shit to be in a relationship. I know actual women who have had relationships like this and it never ends well.
honestly, writing about toxic romance isn't wrong as long as it's portrayed realistically or not shown as a good thing. cruel intentions has romance but a "happy romantic ending" in that movie is impossible since it's such a chaotic movie about "bad" people. literally, after we collided has hardin and tessa fight CONSTANTLY with hardin just being a douchebag throughout the entire movie and we're supposed to believe it's romantic bc "despite everything, they love each other"??? if they really loved each other, they'd break up. also: if you wanna watch a great movie that portrays toxic romance realistically, watch the a24 film "waves"
My main problem with After is honestly that it’s ‘ not supposed to be ‘ something that it totally is, anyway. It’s ‘ not supposed to be ‘ a dating guide or something that you want for your future, yet Hardin and Tessa fight obsessively and fuck for at least two books and still end up together in the end. Sure, maybe they sought therapy, but that’s still two whole movies/books of fighting and toxicity. It’s not discouraging anything at the same rate that it’s not supposed to be encouraging anything. It really needed to take a cue from Waitress or something and had an actual walk away from toxicity if it wasn’t supposed to encourage anything because the story still ends with Hessa together.
I remember everyone in high school reading Les liaisons dangereuses in class at a very age we were so awkward with our bodies and desires. There is a good movie inspired by it called "une vieille maitresse" by Catherine Breillat, starring Asia Argento, and I highly recommend it.
@@janedoe2162 The novel une vieille maitresse yes, but the movie itself was inspired by Choderlos de Laclos. I was not talking about literature but cinema, thus I was talking about Catherine Breillat's inspirations, not about Barbey d'Aurevilly's work. It's even stated at the beginning of the movie.
Problematic fiction is a guilty pleasure of many, teens and adults. Cheating. NTR. Manipulation. Some Non-con. You get the gist. I'm a strong believer that fiction shouldn't be censored and that you should write about anything you want, but I also agree with your point that it's important that people consuming these things be aware that it is problematic. I enjoy the entire 'Alpha-male' trope in stories, but would I be comfortable with anyone that acted that way in real life? Hell no. Fiction is enjoyable because it's just pretend and it's separated from reality. I can understand the fans points about not wanting all of the problematic scenes from After taken out, even though I still think the books and movies are complete garbage. Sometimes you want your garbage.
I agree with you in all if this. Too bad so many of the fans are children or adults who behave like kids, though. Being upset and voicing that is fine, but the weird misplaced anger at the female director is not okay.
Two T.S. references in a single video? We love to see it ❤ Also, sure, we can make the argument that Tessa and Hardin aren't supposed to be good role models and it's "just a story," but really that argument is reductive. Stories are really important and make huge impacts on people and cultures. So saying, "I'm not trying to be a good example iM jUsT wRiTiNg A sTOrY," is a ridiculous thing for the author to claim. And aside from that, objectively, it's just a bad book. It's a lazy, redundant, completely unnecessary story, not to mention the fact that it was originally written to include REAL LIVING PEOPLE (since it was fan fiction). It adds nothing constructive or innovative to the genre. There are tons of other "toxic" love stories that are better constructed than this thing. Sure, the author has every right to write the book, but that doesnt automatically make it good or something that's worthy of praise. It's bad and she should feel bad.
Speaking of the awful trend of ditching female directors from the first films. The first Twilight was self aware and beautifully shot, it got teenage angst. The rest were garbage and only weakly saved by their soundtracks and big budget. The first Fifty Shades, as cringe as it was, gave Anastasia agency... the rest gave her an entirely passive role. It’s so blatantly sexist how they fire the women who clearly show female sexuality or longing properly and replace them with guys who have no understanding.
Your agency point doesn’t hold up bc these are movie characters. They actually don’t have their own agency because of that. The characters are at the whim of whatever the director chooses. Now you can criticize how poorly the characters are used, not the agency. In 50 shades, it’s based on a book, rather loosely but adapted nonetheless. You can’t put all the blame on the director as he’s just adapting it
I often find myself tempted to lecture After stans, but then I remember how I felt about Twilight (spending HOURS and HOURS pining for an imaginary vampire who would act possessive of me, defending the books agressively whenever someone presented a slight criticism) when I was younger and I now I just shut up and let the audience outgrow the story. I still feel a vague fondness for Twilight, but now I can read the books and watch the movies and laugh at them. Sorry for the rant, great video btw!
Frankly I think more room should be made in popular media for immoral romance. Like all things, this only works when it's handled seriously and respecfully to it audience. If done well it can lead people actually sit a THINK about the morally grey dynamics that might exist in our own interactions. What we get instead is either melodramatic Lifetime movies where we already know the morally corrected ending is what will always happen or tonally confused nonsense like After that wants to have its cake and eat it b/c it's writers just aren't brave or smart enough to pull off what Dangerous Liaisons at least tried to do damn near two hundred years ago. tlbr: more bad romance!
This was awesome! I’ve been trying to get more into the romance genre with this mindset. Though I just have a hard time shipping a couple if they’re both mean to each other. So far my favorite has been Crazy Rich Asians because the main characters are a good couple but everyone around them is toxic.
there are many romance stories involving morally dubious characters, but most of them aren't mainly pushed to pre-teens and teen girls who don't always have the best chritical gaze when it comes to romantic relationships and tend to romanticise these toxic behavious, if you have that audience there is a certain degree of responsibility that comes with it
Looking back at it now, what's throwing me off about how Anna Todd executed the whole message of forgiveness in the most messiest way. Like the whole point of the series is about Tessa trusting Hardin and Hardin being redeemed after his actions and heinous past. But all of that wasn't specifically part of Tessa's conflict is about. The only reasons Tessa argued and distrust Hardin is because he bait her for a bet and assumed of cheating on her, not for the other actions that Hardin committed such as his aggressive behavior and cheating our many, many, women in the past. Basically Tessa was more upset of Hardin cheating on her rather than his deplorable actions such as being controlling and manipulative toward her which are signs of domestic abuse. Hardin's certain traits of abuse are never properly addressed throughout the series. They are romanticized to make Hardin the "bad boy" appeal, the glamorization for young girls to project themselves into Tessa thinking they can tame and fix them.
I agree with the point that we shouldn't ban all media that we deem to be problematic. Lots of well written stories contain problematic aspects. However, I think the issue comes when the audience doesn't find it problematic. I'm sure most people watch the movie and can see the relationship is toxic and shouldn't be replicated, but a lot of people I know have described Tessa and Hardin's relationship as 'cute' and 'romantic'. I think there are too many films and media that portray toxic relationships as romantic and it has started to become normalised. Therefore, a movie following a toxic relationship that we are supposed to root for might not be the best idea..
I have the whole Serie at home because i was stupid when i was a late Teen. I can't remember a damn Thing about it but i know i would never read them again. Mmh maybe i should look to reselling them, then i can buy new books i will hide away in a couple of years...
I really loved this video! It’s a huge relief to hear someone talking about the things you did toward the end of the video, about how some people seem to be under the impression that all stories need to be free of problematic elements and that fandom has a history rn in how it justifies shipwars from “morality” standpoints. I’ve going to therapy for about four years now due to harassment I received through those justifications and I don’t really think it’ll ever help me recover from believing I’m a bad person because of things I ship. It’s just really nice to hear someone acknowledging that it’s a thing that’s happening in fandom spaces. I’m rambling now, but yeah. I adore your content and eagerly await each upload! This is another great video so thank you so much for sharing~ I’m gonna go binge your backlog again, like I do after every new upload of yours. 💕 Edit: I forgot to mention how hecking funny the reenactments in this vid were. Absolute perfection.
Me watching this video: :) Me when She-Ra/Catra being a good redemption arc gets brought up: :( Is it just me who thinks Catra had a terrible redemption arc? Maybe it’s just because I hate the shows writing.
Haven't finished the video, I'm on the part with a bunch of people talking about how much they hare the director and I can't help but feel super annoyed. It's not realistic, it's a trashy toxic romance, and you know what? Liking that kind of thing is OKAY!!! Don't justify yourself by saying a story is something that it's not. You don't have to pretend to find problematic love stories repulsive and lie to justify liking one. If somebody says that there's something wrong with you, just ignore them, but don't act like this romance is perfectly fine and healthy. It's not, and if you genuinely believe that it is, then we have a problem.
when you brought up malia........in retrospect there is something to be said about how women in media being allowed to slap,punch and physically assault men to some degree and it being potrayed as not abusive and assault at all contributes to us as a society not willing to acknowledge it even exists.
omg i screamed when you started talking about dangerous liaisons. it is one of my favorite novels ever. just a small detail in the novel valmot and merteuil were never ex-lovers, they were close friends that knew each other's indiscretions and the bet was so valmot could finally sleep with the marquise de merteuil, and he really wanted that bc she was the only woman he couldn't have (she was basically his equal so any deceiving plot to win her over would've never worked), great analysis though! i never watched any after movie but i love your take 😊
To me the worst part of the movie is when Hardin's mom said that his nightmares went away when he met Tessa. It implies that no matter how awful he is to her, Tessa is obligated to stay with him and be a substitute for therapy. It is also dismissive of Hardin's severe mental illness because "love can fix him."
100% agreed
Lol the same thing happened in Fifty Shades Darker. Fanfics, man....
@@spectre9340 I didn't see them, but I heard that he was molested as a teenager and they never properly addressed it, even saying that he and the woman who assaulted him were "still friends." Disgusting.
@@journeymathews6275 okay so in Fifty Shades, Christian Grey was sexually abused by his mom's friend when he was 15 and it went on til he was 20. But he's also got PTSD from when his crackwhore mom got killed by her pimp in front of him when he was 4.
In Fifty Shades Darker, Anastasia gets told by Christian's therapist that his PTSD-related nightmares only went away because of her. Totally illegal of him to divulge that information and also inappropriate to spring that on her.
@@spectre9340 tbh, Christian's therapist is the worst therapist in the world, showing that EL james understands therapy as much as she does BDSM, which is not at all
and this is why i continue to drag anna todd. she has numerous girls thinking that this kind a behavior is cute. there's nothing cute about it it's scary.
She may somewhat disclaim Hessa being acceptable and good but her fans don’t see that. I saw a girl say that the more toxic a relationship is the better. Julia read us a tweet saying that their relationship was realistic. Anna needs to make sure her audience knows that she’s not writing a book about a healthy or acceptable relationship and it’s not a realistic relationship either.
Harriyanna!! I love your vids!
@@missserenity1090 THANK YOU! This right here is the type of thing that everyone should be addressing.
Omg Harriyanna, I love your vids!
if you look at the movie trailer's comment section, there's a lot of ppl commenting things like:
"mE: tOxIc rElaTiOnshiPs AreNt foR mE
alSo mE: oMgGg i ShiP hEssA!1!1! hEsSa hAvE tO be tgT thEy Are MeAnt fOr eAchOtHerRr"
also other comments about how "perfect" this movie is, and how they "dEpiCt hOw reAL loVe woRks"
it's disappointing. honestly very VERY disappointing.
if someone finds after realistic, they should probably... you know... seek therapy
it's lina I literally laughed when I saw that comment.
@Dee Ayy Why Night Productions i know, like girl... are your friends okay? an imperfect relationship doesn't have to include abuse!!
I mean getting back together with your ex over and over is real for some ppl. Even if they are toxic haha
Lauren Nicole True but I don’t think the people that said that see it as a bad relationship. I think they think that most couples are like that.
It’s so normal though. Most wouldn’t even think to seek therapy for normalised romantic traits... it is realistic, it’s not healthy.
Don’t you just love the story of a girl that cheats on her boyfriend with a dude she had to kick out of her room cause he refused to leave while she was changing
_oMg So RoManTic!_
He MaKeS hEr FeEl AlIvE
wait....that's the plot??? i haven't watch it so..........THAT IS SOOOO BAD?!?!!!?
@@tristanyupukoni6453 My dude from there we go down not up, that plot point is just the cherry on top. There's a whole other sunday below it, four scoops of Toxic Drama and Unnecessary Intentions, two manipulation bananas, under that is Abusive Behavior Flavor (Anna's fave), and for the frosting on top is four books and one spin off. All of that with a side of lonely rainy montages of them breaking up and getting back together all. the damn. time.
We love Max Caulfield
I can’t with the slut shaming, why do all these teen romances put men on pedestals
Because a lot of them are written by young women and young women are raised in a patriarchal society that teaches them they're only good if they're good girls - demure, quiet, and of service to the men around them. Boys will be boys, but girls don't fuck too many people because then they won't make decent wives. Boys get to be rambunctious and free-spirited, girls should play nicely. Your brothers don't need to do the dishes, but you do, little Sally.
For many women, it takes a bit of work and growth to shed those notions and instead live freely and see men as equals.
@@bubblegumplastic Okay no 😂 I’m a woman and “sl*t shaming” is just a product of humans competing with each other. She wants the same man another woman is going after, so she trashes her reputation to make her less desirable. It’s the same reason why guys compete and fight over women 🤷♀️
@@monkeyming5545 I've only ever been slut shamed by older relatives, mostly uncles. Were they trying to trash the competition.
@@bubblegumplastic I said other WOMEN do it for competition, jealousy and many other things. Your family doing it obviously is tension or some other affair that’s going on and they’ve chosen you as an outlet for the aggression.
@@monkeyming5545 Young women are slut shamed by their relatives all the time. Your skirt is too short, what will people think of you, don't sleep with that boyfriend, etc. It's just built into our society.
implying that pride and prejudice, THE ultimate literary boyfriend mr. darcy, influenced her while writing after...
i got sooo angry! What did Austen do to deserve this treatment? 😂😢
@Dee Ayy Why Night Productions I think because they hate each other and because of their characteristics. There were also a scene (at least in the original fanfic), where Tessa & Hardin, after a big fight, are sitting in literature course and they read Pride & Prejudice for it. The whole thing in the scene escalated into yet another fight between them after they discussed the characters there and so on. Anna Todd made no secret that she tried to make parallels to Pride & Prejudice. Emphasis on tried.
Let's see, Hardin is a guy who seduced a young girl into bed for his own benefit and satisfaction, for money, even... Mr darcy could never. I do see some similarities with Wickham though.
They discuss the p&p in the movie but it's just so bad. Not all enemies to lovers are like Lizzie and Darcy
Idk how you look at Mr. Darcy, then at sweet, activist Harry Styles, and somehow birth a literary monster baby like Hardin Scott.
am i surprised that afters fanbase is largely misogynistic toward the women in the book and also the women behind the film adaptation???? no that’s like saying water is wet
water isn't wet though.
@@braingirl9112 It's not a debate, it's science. You can look it up.
@@fatima-vt3yv how about we just say water spears wet and call it a day
@@fatima-vt3yv yeah water is a substance that makes something wet but water itself is in fact not wet
@@ep3253 yeah girl i already said that lol.
Anna Todd's statement kind of... confuses me. Like, what is the point of After, then? It's a "love story" without love, and a "romance" where the main relationship is too terrible to root for. And yet unlike other stories centering on unhealthy relationships, it doesn't try to deconstruct romance tropes or make commentary on society or anything like that. It's just showing a toxic relationship... and that's it.
Victorian Melodrama also she acts as if her fans understand that. They don’t. They see Hessa as a great couple and couple goals.
Honestly it seems to me that she just wanted to write some Harry Styles sex scenes, filling the rest in with general plot points from well known movies, and just went along with it as it started getting popular. I mean, keep in mind that she didn't write it as a screenplay or even a book, it was a fanfiction on a website with little standards (not trying to insult people who write for wattpad or anything, I just mean that the stories don't have to go through editors, publishers etc. as far as I know). I imagine she went along with it as it got more famous, but was never really prepared with answers/insights as a professional author
Just read it as porn with more developed characters and for straight women only. Thats a large part why its popular. When I see the like this its actually not that bad. I mean everbody has a secret kink and if thats a toxic dude then so be it. As long as u can differentiate reality from fiction.
I mean it doesn't even need a commentary on their relationship it just needs to avoid glamourizing it. Take for example euphoria, literally everyone but Maddy and Nate see how detrimental their "bonnie and clyde" dynamic is, it's brought up by both parental figures and friends. The show itself is visually appealing with the set designs, lighting, camera work, etc. but not once do they give off the message of "love is meant to be like this". Even the narration makes things clear to the audience, "It's not the abuse that scared her, it's the fact she'd still love him no matter what he did"
OH MY YESSS, I do think she says those things to make more acceptable the fact that she is promoting toxic relationship and abusive boyfriends to her audience
Is writing about toxic romance wrong? not really as long as you use enought self-awareness but After puts this relationship that is based on nothing but sex and they fight the rest of the time and has the nerve to put a character to say "your relationship is toxic" (quite cringey) and say "well, you are wrong! our love is PASSIONATE! INTENSE! AND BIGGER THAN ANYONE ELSE!". And it´s so soo pretentious . Edit: wait, After´s fandom actualy think that is good? unironicaly?
Exactly! I always use the show THIS IS US as a great example of how to portray a toxic romance and not romanticize it. Example: When Kate (the daughter) was in college, she had an abusive boyfriend, and yes, they did show scenes of them having “good times” (him giving her a gift, them singing a duet in the car, etc.), but for every good thing, there were multiple bad things, and the show never wrote them as a couple that we were supposed to ship. The show never came across like “OMG HE CAME BACK FOR HER AFTER THROWING HER OUT OF HIS CAR AND LEAVING HER ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD!!! GOALS!! 😍” And in the end, she left him and later in adulthood, married a guy that actually loved her.
@@sab714 I love that show and I was watching those episodes right after watching After We Collided, because the way the relationship was portrayed with Kate and that guy seemed similar in some way to Tessa and Hardin's, except After does seem to romanticize it while This Is Us doesn't.
"after" romanticizes it big time. They get spontaneously married in the end of the last book after not seeing each other for two years... And there's a lot of points in the book that excused Hardin's behavior and his "perfectly imperfect" romance
I don't know if this meets the requirement, but the movie Blue Valentine portrays a toxic relationship that is tragic. The couple fight each other and don't get along after they married, but as the movie shows flashback of how happy they truly were, the movie makes you wanted for them to get along and stay happy together. After on the other hand, just makes me wanted to wish they get slap in the face cause how badly written they are (and their stupidity aren't well written either despite fans claiming "well they are teens!".
@@isaacgray2909 Heck yeah, _Blue Valentine_ is a good example.
damn okay i just started but i’m already - and i don’t use this word often - titillated
my two faves
ilu!!
Two queens
so many of those tweets criticizing jenny gage literally sound misogynistic i--
they're brainless... i hope they mature soon.
Ikr...almost forgot how vicious young teenage girls can be until I read those lol...😵😅
So many of them are defending the lead actor as if he can actually act... Did we watch the same film???
@@TwelvetreeZ I've noticed comments on other videos as well calling him a good actor, with a lot of people bringing up his part in Harry Potter as a defence which, sure, he did fine, but he was also like 10(?) years old and only had a few lines. I don't want to be mean, but a very minor role in one film doesn't mean he's up to the level of a lead actor of a trilogy
@@rebeccadodd1394 👏🏼 preach on that !
god those after stans on twitter are always so annoying
most stans tend to be lol
@@wordswarsandsymphonies We know that, but after stans are unique
answer: that teens romanticize abusive relationships
not just teens..anyone can do it, usually its adults that open the idea of abusive relationships up to teens through fanfics, books, TVs, movies, etc, which causes them to think it's normal and want something like that from themselves so they can live that stressful but glamorized "y/n life"
Anna Todd, the writer of After, was 25 when she wrote that fanfic....
@@bubbles4897 I didn't even know that but it proves my point
And adults. Look at movies like 50 shades of Grey and hundreds of other movies that depict toxic relationships but are praised for being arousing.
@@mynameisreallycool1 exactly
You recreating the Hardin running after the ambulance scene had me rolling 😂😂
I was looking for someone in comments to mention that part 🤣🤣
I despise hardin so much its unreal how could a fictional character spark so much rage within me i dont know but he does jesus christ
It's probably the terrible British accent, along with everything else, of course
Hardin literally triggers memories of an old abusive relationship i can't even watch after 💀💀💀
Plot twist: Tessa felt the same, as *oh he drives me crazy!* But just mistook it for passion...
this movie was so bad and so awkward and for what? harry styles has made so many claims about how uncomfortable he is by it and they still made it a movie smh
i keep hearing this but, try as i might, i can't find him ever commenting on it? every article i see says he hasn't made a statement about it. what am i missing? do you have a link?
@@juliacudney yeah same, it’s all talk but I have yet to find a source 👀
@@juliacudney i dont i just heard it on tiktok it might not be true 🤭
@@juliacudney he doesn't respond specifically to fan fics, but in I believe his 2019 Zane Lowe interview he talked about how he cant even think about people sexualizing him and seeing him in that light because it makes him very uncomfortable. But this was in response to a question about how he is considered a sex symbol
@@juliacudney He's also blocked the author on Twitter so I think that sheds light on his opinion on the series
Julia ignores Gossip Girl plot points like I ignore her ship opinions
So After had a woman director who tried to polish the source material into something palatable, only to be replaced by a man to make a follow-up that lives down to its reputation.
It's the 50 Shades movies all over again.
The first movie was still garbage and toxic though, so was her not being the director even important?
@@bubbles4897 At least the first movie didn't have blatant sexual assault... so, ya know, it's a step up 😭
@@bubbles4897 it was but compared to the book it was LEAPS better
@@bubbles4897 It still has a lot of yucky stuff, but it's infinitely much better compare to this second movie (seriously, the dude who play Hardin sounds so bad in the argument scenes).
It reminds me of that Disney movie Brave, where the director was replaced by a man too😔It could’ve been better if that didn’t happen
why... in the bowels of hell... do teen movies (and fifty shades) ALWAYS get sequels in which the female director from the first film is replaced by a male director??? have we learned NOTHING from twilight AND to all the boys i loved before???
Nope at least Twilight had the decency to keep Melissa Rosenberg as the screenwriter for all 5 movies
For 50 Shades, El James forced the original director off the project because she DARED to try to make the story tolerable. James hired her husband to the rest
@@athenajaxon2397 to be honest it’s not like having a female director would’ve been much better. Mostly bc the source material wasn’t that good to begin with
Kind of hypocritical of Anna Todd to say: "After is not a dating guide". So what? We can't criticize the story because of that?
Sure, no one who reads the book or watches the movie should interpret the characters' actions as a to do list, but she can't deny that the overall message of the story is bad boy=hot.
There are a million other stories that show characters behaving terribly (even worse than those two) but the difference between After and those stories is that you know that those characters are bad people. I mean, the whole reason why the author of Dangerous Liaisons had to kill off his characters at the end is because they were "bad".
Hardin and Tessa may "not be role models" but it's pretty clear that the audience is supposed to empathize with them and root for them.
When he grabs her or screams at her we're supposed to think "Oh that's hot" instead of "He's an a-hole". And when Tessa says to another girl "You're a whore" and then assaults some poor random guy a few minutes later, we're not supposed to be like "She's terrible" we're supposed to think "Oh she's a qUeEEeEeeN!!!".
I get that Anna just wants to write whatever she wants, and she has all the rights to do that. If she wants to write a story glorifying abuse it's fine, but she should also accept the criticism that comes with that.
I agree with you in all except one thing. Writing a work that glorifies abuse (which then turns out to be a massive hit, thus very influential) should not be someone’s “right”. The impressionable young people, mainly girls because that was the book’s target audience, read the series and watch the films and they, either subconsciously or willingly, idolize the relationship portrayed in them. Yes, they do recognize the toxicity in some degree but several harmful messages, whether it was intentionally or not does not matter, have been passed onto them. I know a few girls who have told me, and I quote, “Omg Tessa and Hardin’s relationship is SO romantic! I want a relationship like that!” and many other similar things. They are being taught, shown in fact, that if you stick long enough in an abusive relationship then the abuser will change because they love you. That’s not true. It’s a very harmful message. It saddens me to think how many viewers have believed it, romanticised it even!
I genuinely couldn’t imagine the two of them in a normal situation or having a normal conversation without it ending in a fight. What kind of basis is their relationship even on? They literally have no foundation, common interests other than the cliche good girl wants the bad boy. When they all wears off, then what? There’s literally nothing there.
Another annoyance was that that after every single fight and then they’d just sleep together as tho that would make all their problems disappear. Like dancing around any of their problems but never really resolved any of them and I mean any of them. They literally either didn’t mention it again but it was still a problem or just left it hanging.
Also this isn’t even about the story but the actor of Hardin was so freaking awful it was hilarious at some times. His accent sounds like someone faking a brutish accent really badly but I was even more shocked to discover he really is British???
Bro I agree with everything you said. I mean from the get go they're a failed relationship because they literally have nothing in common other than they read and they feel sexually attracted to each other. Like there's no chemistry between them and the only exciting parts is when they argue, because that's the only action that ever happens besides them having sex all the time. Which is super annoying because they take that anger out on sex, which is all the dang time.
I mean that's literally the reason why no one roots for them other than After stans ofc. There's nothing to root them for and this goes on for like four books. Also sorry that this is turning into some kind of rant but Tessa reeks of toxicity. She's just as fake and bad as Hardin's accent lmao
NewKidOnTheBlock I feel this entirely cause I think Hardin gets all the hate but Tessa is just as problematic af. Her cringey ass “aRe yOu A wHoRe?!” like she did something when she was sleeping with Hardin while with Noah??? She is so annoying who thinks she’s on some sort of pedestal but at least Molly wasn’t and isn’t in a committed relationship with someone else? And doesn’t string people along because god forbid he’s a loving, good kid human being
She reeks of superiority and thinking she’s better than other people when she is annoying af. Hardin gets all the smoke when she’s right there
Well they both like to read and.... yeah thats literally it honestly. Thats their one common insterest. But even thats not explored as much.
@@gaslightgatekeepgirlboss6321 but wait you also forgot that their both self pretensions, stupid, melodramatic and .........
That’s pretty much it
Can we call a chiropractor for Trevor after carrying this whole movie.
Frida Han Trevor was way better. Imagine someone putting in the time and effort to find you a car, negotiate a good price/payment plan, and also negotiate with the company to cover your insurance for your boyfriend and you you choose the guy that forgot your birthday and manipulated you.
The section where the characters kept repeating the "forgiveness" mantra really freaked me out. When you've been abused, that's the mindset your abuser puts you in. Anna Todd can say all she'd like about not writing a dating guide and it's "just a story" but the teenage girls watching this could internalize those messages. I know I already dealt with a lot of guilt from my personal life without having pieces of media tell me "you should forgive your abuser without any evidence of them changing because they're a better person now, because they said so !!"
Yeah. There's always so much emphasis on forgiving people, when that's up to the victim to decide. We treat people badly if they aren't able to forgive, as if forgiveness is owed instead of earned or conditional.
It also seems to blur the line between forgiveness, acceptance, and tolerance. You can forgive someone for how they treated you so it doesn’t hold power over you, you can accept that’s the way they are so you don’t hurt yourself trying to make them change, but you shouldn’t tolerate toxic behavior. The terms might be related, but they don’t mean the same thing and are definitely NOT enacted the same way.
@@graceboulet5316 i agree, so many people mistake forgiveness as tolerance that it's hard for me to say that i forgive someone even tho I would never go near them ever again
I am disgusted at all those hate comments about Jenny. The internalised misogyny is UNREAL. 🙀
Great video though, Julia! 😄
How is it misogynistic if they just don’t like her as the person
the mental gymnastics that Anna Todd does to defend her generic writing ☠
The sexual assault scene freaked me out so much, I cannot believe they put that in a movie marketed for teen girls then tried to spin it as "hot" or whatever
Me too. It was awful.
I hate the fans of this series. Imagine being angry that there isn’t enough x rated content. And then there’s 10:10 where they legit are saying that After is a realistic series like realistic of what exactly? Clearly a bunch of suppressed 12 y/o. No normal person that is above the age of 12 would thing this way
It reveals that you shouldn’t turn fanfic into movies 😳
You shouldn’t turn BAD fanfics into movies
@@nkirukaj2384 so don't make Wattpad movies in general😂 If Netflix is really *that* desperate for new ideas, then they should just go look to AO3 for inspiration. I swear that website is a fucking gold mine for great stories, it really should've gotten all the attention Wattpad has smh
@@mariunfabregas7533 don’t act like there are NO good stories on wattpad. And I’m pretty sure that Netflix only goes there cuz it’s popular, if they knew about AO3 they’d be there too
@@nkirukaj2384 I'll admit that there are _some_ good fanfictions there, but you have to skim through so much garbage just to find them. None of the most popular YA romance stories are good either. Not a SINGLE one. In conclusion, AO3>>>>>>>>>
what happened in wattpad STAYS in wattpad
Why is no one talking about how cute Julia's highlights are?
Her hair and pom pom pen are ADORABLE
Julia is a whole aesthetic
she's gorgeous!
jenny gage was such a better director omfg the scenes flowed better, the movie felt like a movie and not like a straight book, the cinematography was so much prettier
Agreed. And I just find it so funny how people only hated her because she didn’t put in the sex scenes they wanted. Like I get that’s all they get besides the toxic relationship stuff but god, they’re desperate.
@@riffshe20 exactly and there were SO many sex scenes in this one...i was so uncomfortable watching
Yes sure but the movie was still bad, bc the book series is bad
I watched after. It was a mistake
Which you realized AFTER
hahahahahaahahahahaha
aight imma leave
We all make mistakes especially Anna Todd.
Me getting the notification for this vid: 😀
Julia: *leh leh leh sans danger zoh*
Me a French speaker: 😶
Pareil pour moi, j'ai rarement entendu cette phrase détruite comme ça XD
ok but the can we also talk about the most iconic line, "i'm drunk, uncomfortable, and i saw a tampon on the ground." i sent that to my gm and had to laugh because at times i forget how disgusting going to bars and clubs was pre-covid.
I honestly do love that line. The only good part of the whole After series IMO
My favorite line from the best character in the movie, Trevor.
Writing about toxic romances is fine as long as the text is aware that it’s toxic. 50 shades is a bad example because the text (aka the author) continuously validates the characters’ awful behavior and makes hand-waved excuses for Grey’s abusiveness. After is at least aware that the relationship is bad but it doesn’t do a good job at creating a story with that premise. It’s just fuck, argue, fuck, argue, rinse and repeat. It’s not deep. It’s not reflective. It’s just badly written and has zero plot.
Edit: a really good example is Killing Stalking, a webcomic about an extremely abusive relationship between a serial killer and his stalker. The text never paints the relationship as good. It’s very well aware that it’s problematic.
I’m fine with people liking unhealthy relationships as long as they are aware that those relationships are toxic and don’t try to excuse the toxicity away. My problem comes when people try to say that relationships like Tessa and Hardin are more realistic because they aren’t perfect, when there are so many more ways to write realistic relationships while still having them be healthy. Conflict in relationships doesn’t need to come from couples breaking up and then getting back together, there are a lot of other ways to do it. I’m tired of people trying to play it off like toxic relationships are actually more real. It’s fine to like toxic relationships but also acknowledge that that stuff is toxic instead of coming up with a way to say that it’s realistic or trying to excuse a characters actions.
That’s totally valid and I felt the same way and there are fans of the book that do acknowledge that and only see the book as nothing but dumb fiction
100% agree
Fr, I am so tired of writers getting two characters together and then breaking them up every time there’s conflict. Breaking up and getting back together over and over is very unhealthy and should not be romanticized, and yet it is :(
Thinking about how Hardin looks like Danny Gonzalez
Annaliese Rangel Why would you do this to me?
How dare you
pls I was just thinking that
i don't see it
@@osnapitzbubble it’s the brown hair and blue eyes, they’re like a million other characters Danny Gonzalez looks like 😹
I much prefer the Cudney remake, much better scenes with the balloons
i think my biggest problem with After is that it’s targeted towards teens, you know? like when a “problematic” movie is targeted towards adults, it’s not as big a problem because most adults have better critical thinking. but movies such as Twilight and After are for easily impressionable teenage girls. i don’t think it’s wrong to watch the movies, i mean i watch Twilight for the fun of it. i know full well that it’s problematic, and i watch it to poke fun and get a few laughs (and for Robert Pattinson). i did the same with After. but it still makes me worry for other teen girls who don’t have 3 older sisters to tell them the difference between a toxic relationship and a healthy one
nitpicking lit student here.
did Anna Todd compare her novel to "The Taming of the Shrew" and not realise how hypocritical that sounds? A play about toxic relationships & the powerplay in relationships, while her book doesn't punish the main characters' toxic behaviour?? What's not clicking???
And the Wuthering Heights & Pride and Prejudice reference, yeah that isn't in After (or Cruel Intentions that she is referencing to). Maybe Heathcliff's horrid behaviour toward Catherine, but they're punished at the end, they don't fully romanticize his behaviour. Which Anna Todd clearly does.
And Pride and Prejudice. I'll will not start with that because I'm doing my thesis on it & dearly love the novel, but I watched the debate Hardin & Tessa had about it and I'm sorry, Anna Todd clearly took the novel at face value & added it to her book as something university students would study. That debate made me cringe sooo hard 😣 it shows no understanding of the novel's underlying themes & issues that women have struggled with when the novel was published. It's a commentary on a wider society, utilized through the town of Meryton & the Bennet family.
Sorry for whoever is reading this essay, misrepresentation of Austen novels is my ultimate pet peeve (& people using her characters incorrectly!)
It seems like Todd has taken all this literature at face value. Wuthering Heights is one of my faves, but to treat it as straightforward romance and #couple goals is flabbergasting.
Tessa had the choice of:
A) a non-toxic relationship with Zack from the suite life
B) a toxic relationship with a british guy who gets mad about everything.
She chose FREAKING B!!!!!! She could’ve had Dylan Sprouce! What’s going on in that head of yours girl? That’s like choosing fast food over minestrone soup!
She also had the choice to pick no one, which might have been better.
@@Aster_Risk that’s true
@@Aster_Risk best option
Aster Risk true. Now that I think about it she’s too toxic for my boy Zack. Both her and Hardin can stay alone forever and step on legos.
Dylan deserves more than her
Honestly, the harsh backlash against Jenny Gage is uncalled for and pisses me off. Don't like the direction a project is taking? Fine. You have the right to think that. But don't be an ass and attack the creator. They are human, too, and you should treat them with respect.
Good grief those anti-Jenny Gage comments are disgusting.
It reminded me of how Sakura fans bash studio Pierrot for their character being ruined
@@carlacarrero4975 that's because sp is sexist and literally made an episode where Sakura is being told that she's not "woman enough" because she has flat chest.
@@Mandombb no offense I do get that studio Pierrot did ruined some parts of Sakura but they also ruined most other relationships too it’s not just Sakura that gets ruined the context of the story also gets ruined too and an example of this is naruto vs kakashi in that fight naruto was actually thinking about iruka but they caught that out for some weird reason and as for the boob joke you do realize that most anime tend to do that right its not just in naruto it is also in other anime’s as well for example in fairy tail Wendy always talks about how she wishes her boobs were big ,kaguya sama they did it with kaguya and even Pokémon did it too
@@carlacarrero4975 Just ‘cause they all made that sexist joke, doesn’t mean it’s ok.
@@carlacarrero4975 what? so you think sexist jokes are okay?? i don't care if they change the story or whatever, the franchise has already been ruined anyway. But sexist misogynistic jokes about how women with small boobs and women who can't cook are "nOT wOmANlY enOUgH" which aren't even canon are messed up. if you think that's okay, maybe you're a product of internalized misogyny itself.
I looove when they replace women directors even though they’ve shown they’re capable of making, if anything, popular and movies that make millions 🙄
Sure but the thing is that those movies would’ve been bad no matter what. So replacing them really isn’t as big a deal
"I'm uncultured, nice to meet you" is such a great line it made me remember why I love your videos
The problem with the kissing booth 2 and cheating is that it evilised and punished Noah for being a bit too flirty with a girl but never crossing the line while elle full on made out with another guy in front of thousands of people and yet its treated like a passing thought that isnt important. It acts like a girl cheating is okay and no big deal but its totally okay to get mad and punish men when you THINK they're cheating! Also, lee treats Rachel AWFULLY and shes always expected to forgive him and its a good thing when she does. Also, the way lee keeps treating elle is incredibly toxic and its STILL treated as okay. Personnally, i see the second movie as the worse thing that could happen to the first one.
That's a good point. I mean I think she kissed that guy because she thought Noah was actually cheating on her at the time, but that's not a valid excuse to cheat back. If she had held back and been loyal herself, and if she didn't look through his phone without him knowing, I would've sided with her completely.
Both of you are amazing, I was watching Bad Movies & A Beat and was looking at the comments and people was taking Elle side even though it didn’t show Noah actually cheating on her with the other girl not once.
@@Asia_03060 That's because Kennie decided that Noah being a bit too close to another girl is a valid excuse for elle to go makeout with another dude in front of him and thousands of people. Its not okay to cheat on ANYONE, especially if you have no proof of them actually cheating.
yeah, I hate everyone in kissing booth 2 besides Marco. my big problem with Noah was that he brought Chloe over for Thanksgiving. like whatttttt was that
living for the taylor swift lyrics references
How have I never realised how similar after is to cruel intentions wtf
oh my god, literally
Because despite the toxic similarities the characters are more well rounded in the sense that the antagonist redeems himself through confession and ultimately death and because there isn't this constant back and forth between ryan phillippe and annette in cruel intentions that subliminally alludes to his faults being deemed as okay. but thats not to say that they aren't similar, its just one in my opinion does a better job in terms of execution
Because it’s badly written
Cruel Intentions is one of my problematic favorites. I never would have noticed any similarities to After if not for this video. Cruel Intentions is all kinds of dated and messed up, but there's wit, a pace that's just the right speed, solid acting, and a killer soundtrack. After and its sequel don't seem to have any of the following.
oui oui croissant
Ok but After could have been such a good movie (and book) if it ended with Tessa learning from her Hardin experience and becoming more aware of toxic relationships, and it could have ended with her moving on while becoming a better person. It could have been a great cautionary tale but no bad boy Harry Styles go brrr
Okay, if you After stans are saying that "its only a book! Its only fiction! Why are you guys not hating on books that has murder plots but you hate this?" Bruh. It's about how they represent this movie or book. Of course everyone knows murder is illegal and the movie/book is showing that murdering is bad, but this? This movie was telling you that this kind of thing is normal. Its not telling you that this kind of movie is immoral, theyre freaking romanticizing shit like this. And I hate the fact that they're not mad at Tessa. Like the girl cheated? They even support this Hardin and Tessa's relationship.
All those stupid comments toward Jenny Gage reignited my hatred for teenagers. Maybe allowing kids on the internet was a mistake.
The internet was a mistake
@@sumanahazari6908 no the internet was not a mistake , shallow bad boy romances were the real mistake
None of these people posting tweets understanding how making movies work.
I have a friends who has read all the After books, and now she's dating an abusive asshole who she takes to the cinema to see the After movies. This isn't a scientific study, but maybe the media she consumed influenced her ideas on what is and isn't healthy in a relationship.
Anyhow, I choose not to ignore any of the plot points from Gossip Girl (except the finale), because I still believe that Blair and Dan are soulmates and Dan wouldn't have traded Blair for a hotel. Yes it's 2020 and I'm still defending Dair, it's a hard life shipping a couple that only lasted for a handful of episodes.
Try being dumb enough (like me) to still root for Chuck and Blair despite how terrible they are together.
After is really problematic. I’ve known real guys personally like Hardin - I know that it’s just a movie but it’s a very hard friendship/relationship to pursue. They manipulate and make you feel insecure and like everything you do is wrong. This video is sooo correct and right as to why After and relationships like Tessa and Hardins are problematic.
the “Tessaaaaaa!” took me OUT
🤣🤣
i hate read the first book for fun. i could not do it with the second book lmaoooooooooo it was 5 times worse
Same here it was too much
I love that Hardin is played by a balloon in ur recreations. beautiful acting.
I haven’t even read these books and I already hate them. I’m so tired of watching these authors create these toxic, dangerous relationships and selling it as “true love”. It sends such a bad message to young women that they have to put up with that much shit to be in a relationship. I know actual women who have had relationships like this and it never ends well.
honestly, writing about toxic romance isn't wrong as long as it's portrayed realistically or not shown as a good thing. cruel intentions has romance but a "happy romantic ending" in that movie is impossible since it's such a chaotic movie about "bad" people. literally, after we collided has hardin and tessa fight CONSTANTLY with hardin just being a douchebag throughout the entire movie and we're supposed to believe it's romantic bc "despite everything, they love each other"??? if they really loved each other, they'd break up.
also: if you wanna watch a great movie that portrays toxic romance realistically, watch the a24 film "waves"
i been WAITING for this one
Turn it up! Was actually waiting haha
8:47 Making Hardin softer :D
.
.
I'll see myself out...
My main problem with After is honestly that it’s ‘ not supposed to be ‘ something that it totally is, anyway. It’s ‘ not supposed to be ‘ a dating guide or something that you want for your future, yet Hardin and Tessa fight obsessively and fuck for at least two books and still end up together in the end. Sure, maybe they sought therapy, but that’s still two whole movies/books of fighting and toxicity. It’s not discouraging anything at the same rate that it’s not supposed to be encouraging anything. It really needed to take a cue from Waitress or something and had an actual walk away from toxicity if it wasn’t supposed to encourage anything because the story still ends with Hessa together.
I remember everyone in high school reading Les liaisons dangereuses in class at a very age we were so awkward with our bodies and desires. There is a good movie inspired by it called "une vieille maitresse" by Catherine Breillat, starring Asia Argento, and I highly recommend it.
"une vieille maitresse" is actually an adaption of an entirely different, less famous French novel lol
@@janedoe2162 The novel une vieille maitresse yes, but the movie itself was inspired by Choderlos de Laclos. I was not talking about literature but cinema, thus I was talking about Catherine Breillat's inspirations, not about Barbey d'Aurevilly's work. It's even stated at the beginning of the movie.
@@fantomesauvage2663 Ahh I watched the movie years ago so I must have forgotten the beginning statement, that's my fault, I'm sorry!
Breillat makes such uniquely uncomfortable movies but they’re so weirdly relatable. She’s fantastic but twisted imo haha
Problematic fiction is a guilty pleasure of many, teens and adults. Cheating. NTR. Manipulation. Some Non-con. You get the gist. I'm a strong believer that fiction shouldn't be censored and that you should write about anything you want, but I also agree with your point that it's important that people consuming these things be aware that it is problematic. I enjoy the entire 'Alpha-male' trope in stories, but would I be comfortable with anyone that acted that way in real life? Hell no. Fiction is enjoyable because it's just pretend and it's separated from reality. I can understand the fans points about not wanting all of the problematic scenes from After taken out, even though I still think the books and movies are complete garbage. Sometimes you want your garbage.
I agree with you in all if this. Too bad so many of the fans are children or adults who behave like kids, though. Being upset and voicing that is fine, but the weird misplaced anger at the female director is not okay.
Anytime someone tried to defend these kind of stuff saying "but they are not perfect". I'm always like "but they are still badly written."
she got into a car crash while "texting", yet she's totally fine.......... ok quinn fabray
Two T.S. references in a single video? We love to see it ❤
Also, sure, we can make the argument that Tessa and Hardin aren't supposed to be good role models and it's "just a story," but really that argument is reductive. Stories are really important and make huge impacts on people and cultures. So saying, "I'm not trying to be a good example iM jUsT wRiTiNg A sTOrY," is a ridiculous thing for the author to claim.
And aside from that, objectively, it's just a bad book. It's a lazy, redundant, completely unnecessary story, not to mention the fact that it was originally written to include REAL LIVING PEOPLE (since it was fan fiction). It adds nothing constructive or innovative to the genre. There are tons of other "toxic" love stories that are better constructed than this thing. Sure, the author has every right to write the book, but that doesnt automatically make it good or something that's worthy of praise. It's bad and she should feel bad.
Speaking of the awful trend of ditching female directors from the first films. The first Twilight was self aware and beautifully shot, it got teenage angst. The rest were garbage and only weakly saved by their soundtracks and big budget. The first Fifty Shades, as cringe as it was, gave Anastasia agency... the rest gave her an entirely passive role. It’s so blatantly sexist how they fire the women who clearly show female sexuality or longing properly and replace them with guys who have no understanding.
the first twilight feels more like an cult classic indie darling in comparison to its sequels
Eh “beautifully shot” the entire first movie is covered in a grey-green tint. It’s kind of sickening to watch tbh
Your agency point doesn’t hold up bc these are movie characters. They actually don’t have their own agency because of that. The characters are at the whim of whatever the director chooses. Now you can criticize how poorly the characters are used, not the agency. In 50 shades, it’s based on a book, rather loosely but adapted nonetheless. You can’t put all the blame on the director as he’s just adapting it
Like these book series are not good, as in they are bad
I often find myself tempted to lecture After stans, but then I remember how I felt about Twilight (spending HOURS and HOURS pining for an imaginary vampire who would act possessive of me, defending the books agressively whenever someone presented a slight criticism) when I was younger and I now I just shut up and let the audience outgrow the story. I still feel a vague fondness for Twilight, but now I can read the books and watch the movies and laugh at them.
Sorry for the rant, great video btw!
Frankly I think more room should be made in popular media for immoral romance. Like all things, this only works when it's handled seriously and respecfully to it audience. If done well it can lead people actually sit a THINK about the morally grey dynamics that might exist in our own interactions.
What we get instead is either melodramatic Lifetime movies where we already know the morally corrected ending is what will always happen or tonally confused nonsense like After that wants to have its cake and eat it b/c it's writers just aren't brave or smart enough to pull off what Dangerous Liaisons at least tried to do damn near two hundred years ago.
tlbr: more bad romance!
Absolutely agree.
I don’t get why people would want to see this though
I'm still shocked that there are people who actually, genuinely like this series.
It's horrible.
This was awesome! I’ve been trying to get more into the romance genre with this mindset. Though I just have a hard time shipping a couple if they’re both mean to each other. So far my favorite has been Crazy Rich Asians because the main characters are a good couple but everyone around them is toxic.
You literally saved me from boredom! Your French accent is the cutest, you did great with the pronunciation ♥️
Sorry but no, her pronunciation was beyond awful. Love Julia but that wasn't it.
those reenactments are 👌👌👌 ill take a full length movie
there are many romance stories involving morally dubious characters, but most of them aren't mainly pushed to pre-teens and teen girls who don't always have the best chritical gaze when it comes to romantic relationships and tend to romanticise these toxic behavious, if you have that audience there is a certain degree of responsibility that comes with it
Oh no, I can already feel the artsy movie teens getting the pitchforks ready over you mispronouncing Roger Eberts name
Looking back at it now, what's throwing me off about how Anna Todd executed the whole message of forgiveness in the most messiest way. Like the whole point of the series is about Tessa trusting Hardin and Hardin being redeemed after his actions and heinous past. But all of that wasn't specifically part of Tessa's conflict is about. The only reasons Tessa argued and distrust Hardin is because he bait her for a bet and assumed of cheating on her, not for the other actions that Hardin committed such as his aggressive behavior and cheating our many, many, women in the past. Basically Tessa was more upset of Hardin cheating on her rather than his deplorable actions such as being controlling and manipulative toward her which are signs of domestic abuse.
Hardin's certain traits of abuse are never properly addressed throughout the series. They are romanticized to make Hardin the "bad boy" appeal, the glamorization for young girls to project themselves into Tessa thinking they can tame and fix them.
Sort of. They do address; it just has an underwhelming answer.
I agree with the point that we shouldn't ban all media that we deem to be problematic. Lots of well written stories contain problematic aspects. However, I think the issue comes when the audience doesn't find it problematic. I'm sure most people watch the movie and can see the relationship is toxic and shouldn't be replicated, but a lot of people I know have described Tessa and Hardin's relationship as 'cute' and 'romantic'. I think there are too many films and media that portray toxic relationships as romantic and it has started to become normalised. Therefore, a movie following a toxic relationship that we are supposed to root for might not be the best idea..
those tweets about jenny gage gave me brain rot
I have the whole Serie at home because i was stupid when i was a late Teen. I can't remember a damn Thing about it but i know i would never read them again. Mmh maybe i should look to reselling them, then i can buy new books i will hide away in a couple of years...
This is exactly what I do 😭
Wrist, Wrist, Wrist, Wrist, Wrist!!!
*sings*
The flick of the wrist
Look at the flick of the wrist
those dramatic reenactments gave me so much joy. and this analysis was intriguing. keep doing what you're doing!!! i really appreciate it.
“Are you following?” Me lost as hell
Your re-enactments got me on the floor! 🤣
20:40 in the interview, did she say 'Anna and Hardin'??? Like is she seeing herself as Tessa? If so, that explains a lot.
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE TURN IT UP
After twitter is so wild for what???? like people it is not that great of a book AND movie
julia: so what does all of this have to do with after?
me: i've already forgotten that that was the point of this video
am i the only one who thinks she should post more???
no, i also think i should post more
I really loved this video! It’s a huge relief to hear someone talking about the things you did toward the end of the video, about how some people seem to be under the impression that all stories need to be free of problematic elements and that fandom has a history rn in how it justifies shipwars from “morality” standpoints. I’ve going to therapy for about four years now due to harassment I received through those justifications and I don’t really think it’ll ever help me recover from believing I’m a bad person because of things I ship. It’s just really nice to hear someone acknowledging that it’s a thing that’s happening in fandom spaces. I’m rambling now, but yeah. I adore your content and eagerly await each upload! This is another great video so thank you so much for sharing~ I’m gonna go binge your backlog again, like I do after every new upload of yours. 💕
Edit: I forgot to mention how hecking funny the reenactments in this vid were. Absolute perfection.
Me watching this video: :)
Me when She-Ra/Catra being a good redemption arc gets brought up: :(
Is it just me who thinks Catra had a terrible redemption arc? Maybe it’s just because I hate the shows writing.
Haven't finished the video, I'm on the part with a bunch of people talking about how much they hare the director and I can't help but feel super annoyed. It's not realistic, it's a trashy toxic romance, and you know what? Liking that kind of thing is OKAY!!! Don't justify yourself by saying a story is something that it's not. You don't have to pretend to find problematic love stories repulsive and lie to justify liking one. If somebody says that there's something wrong with you, just ignore them, but don't act like this romance is perfectly fine and healthy. It's not, and if you genuinely believe that it is, then we have a problem.
the biggest problem with internet discourse is that like 85% of discourse is kept alive by people 11-17
who are notorious for their nuanced takes 😐
They end to have more free time and less responsibilities, so it's a lot easier for people in that age group to keep it up.
I'm genuinely concerned about After fans. Girls, are you alright?
when you brought up malia........in retrospect there is something to be said about how women in media being allowed to slap,punch and physically assault men to some degree and it being potrayed as not abusive and assault at all contributes to us as a society not willing to acknowledge it even exists.
I like how after fans act like Jenny Page ruined the movie, like the story wasn’t already bad to begin with
omg i screamed when you started talking about dangerous liaisons. it is one of my favorite novels ever. just a small detail in the novel valmot and merteuil were never ex-lovers, they were close friends that knew each other's indiscretions and the bet was so valmot could finally sleep with the marquise de merteuil, and he really wanted that bc she was the only woman he couldn't have (she was basically his equal so any deceiving plot to win her over would've never worked), great analysis though! i never watched any after movie but i love your take 😊
Ik I should be serious but 12:08 fucking killed me ilysm
I love how i got an ad about abusive relationships before this vidoe
Yo i love you Julia but it's pronounced E-Bert not Eb-Bert
but i worked so HARD on pronunciation for this video *sigh*