Pushing the tremolo/vibrato arm much deeper will reveal way more of a difference in the two types of saddles. I have found, after switching to a roller bridge on my Gretsch, that it was notably better under heavy rockabilly twangin'. I also recommend changing the nut a TUSQ (synthetic ivory), and lubricating the sting slots in the nut just before each live performance. If you want to go one step further you can also add locking machine heads, and all bases are covered. Tx for sharing your findings.
Almost all bases...have a luthier instal a "zero" fret by cutting the nut in half and placing the nut in front of it. The zero fret lifts the strings a fraction so they don't bind in the slots of the nut. The nut still functions as before to align the strings and prevent side to side play.
I'd love to see a comparison between roller saddle and one of those graphtech super slippery tom saddles. If graphtech does the job as good as roller, I would lean on it.
My main gripe with the tune-o-matic bridge is when the saddles are reversed for the low strings to get extra scale length for intonation. This gives the break angle of the wound string a sharp edge to bear against. That edge just has to snag that string.
Iv got a roller bridge on an SG with no vibrato . The intonation is pretty good now when before the old one was junk . I like a good roller bridge . U guys do good work , thanks for putting these out .
The metal zero fret nut on the 2015-2016 Les Paul Classic is pretty low-friction, unless you use flat-wound strings. And even with flat wounds, it is better than a plastic or bone nut.
Nice review. I installed a roller bridge ahead of my B5, all my problems ended , presto. Accuracy jumped way up. Stayed in tune for months. I also recommend Sperzel locking tuners. Mine are perfect after 25 years of hard use
Beware of radius, most replacement roller bridges have 14” radius while gibsons have 12” radius fretboard. I know only ABM and TonePros rollers that have 12” radius
true...i have a 14" radius bridge on my 12" radius epiphone...NO ISSUES...in fact a bridge slightly flatter than neck feels great to me...did it again on purpose on another guit
Two of the three roller bridges I tried that were stated to have a 12" radius were actually 18" to 20" the last one I bought and now use was a true 12" radius and it works out great with my Bigsby. I actually bought it because the original roller on the guitar I bought (used) was a 20" and my neck has a 12" radius. All Parts sells shims (Amazon has them) for locking roller bridges so you can adjust the radius by individual saddle if you want. Or you can make your own shims. I didn't need to use shims after I found the correct radius bridge but it was an option I considered. I was more concerned about the action on my D & G strings setting a higher limit than I wanted for my B & E (not to mention E & A) vs. staying in tune. Staying in tune was not really an issue and I ride the Bigsby a bit harder than demonstrated here some of the time when I use it but I do bend the shit out of the G, B & A all the time. I not saying I didn't have to check my tuning between songs here and there with the roller but I always do anyway with any guitar I play since the Snark type tuners came along a few decades back. Between bends and whammy I tend to push it sometimes.
I recently got an Epiphone Casino and took a chance on an £18 roller bridge (Vanson) to replace the well-known rattley Epi bridge. I was was so impressed I got one for the Les Paul Studio as well. Given the choice why would you run strings over the sharp edge of a chisel!? 🙃
It really works ! I've been using these types of bridges FOR AGES, but only from the best company which is ABM Guitar Parts, in Berlin, Germany. I think it's the brand of Roller Bridges that Thomann sells. Still, you need to do something for the nut, like a high quality lubricant applied in the nut slots (especially the G string), and you'll always have issues with bridges which have "lowering bars" like the Bigsby B5, B7, B12, B50, B70, B500 & B700, except if you have one of these fancy "lowering bars" equipped with "micro ball bearings".
#1 A few on Vibratos and Tremolos: All The Various Option TYPES - such as Vibratos used on SG Type Guitars; Fender Type Guitars; Gretsch Type Guitars/ Body Types. #2 - A SUPERVEE BLADERUNNER INSTALL ON A STRAT with the Added STABILIZER also. Thanks!!
10/19/2022: I installed a roller bridge in my Gretch G5120 Hollow body< did not check if it was better or worse for strings slightly going out of tune. But, what drove me crazy was the rollers rattled a lot. Maybe I bought a cheap set? But, I put the original bridge back on and it works fine. Instead of just sticking a string through the post and then winding, I find locking the strings on the posts helped the most. There are videos teaching this technique.
I'm really curious as to which brand you bought. 10 minutes ago I ordered an ABM roller bridge for my Country Classic 6122 - 1958, I hope this noise issue is relevant for different brands!
Of course they help. Especially nylon saddles with a vibrato. The sharp saddles on any tune-o-matic ridge and even the brass saddles on a telecaster I had to file down because if kept popping my D string. Edit : of course I'm speaking about breaking strings , not only tuning which is an issue with the V saddles but you can file them and lube them. Or you can fix it so you don't have to that anymore. At least not nearly as much.
Bridge friction is only one of a number of things that can cause tuning instability. So putting in a roller bridge won't magically solve all your tuning instability problems if you've also got a sticky nut or string trees.. or crap tuning machines, or new strings that are still stretching, etc.
@@josuesorto3453 i went with a roller bridge by ABM. But there are other options by mastery a.o. but whatch out of these are made to replace TOMs or the original type of moving bridge.
Go for the rollerbridge - Tusq or roller nut combination and all tuning issues when using a Bigsby-style are over. I can even dive bomb, well as "dive a bomb" you can go with a Bigsby and my guitar stays in tune.
On Gibson LP with tusq xl nut and les trem I tried two roller bridges, this abm and tonepros, both did not work well enough, strings do not return to zero, but stay a bit in the direction of the last trem arm move.
My issue with the standard bridge on my Gretch w/ Bigsby is the flexing of that bridge. I can see the bridge flexing back and forth with use of the Bigsby. I'm afraid that will eventually weaken the bridge mounting. I want to know if a roller bridge will allow more bridge mounting stability.
The timbre has also changed and the attack has become softer on the drive, it will be more noticeable, you need to experiment with a bone, chick or shtoto from high-alloy steel
i have a Gretsch electromatic with Bigsby , with the standard tuning keys and bridge, it gets out of tune after each use the Tremelo, installing locking tune keys and a roller bridge makes a lot of difference
I put a roller bridge on my Gretsch G6118T (MIJ) which has a Bigsby B6 vibrato. The only advantage with the roller bridge is the ability to intonate accurately. Otherwise, it was a fail. The problem is with the break angle over the bridge saddles (rollers). With the B6 vibrato the angle is so shallow that even lightly energetic playing knocks the low E string off the roller. It's also happened with the A string. If the rollers on the lower strings had a deeper channel maybe it wouldn't happen. So, I'm now considering a Compton bridge, which has more generalised intonation, but it's better than none, right?
You didn't mention issue with buzzing saddles on roller bridge. I suppose that ABM don't have it but it happens on many roller bridges and makes me kinda anxious about investing in them Video idea: how to read the strobe tuner. I was just guessing that if it's green then it's fine but what the stripes mean 😅
The colours are just for personal preference, you can pick half a dozen. The whole single-colour display changes. Think of the striped disc as a rotating wheel. If it's perfectly in-tune (to 0.1 cents!) it's stationary. If it's sharp it drifts clockwise. Flat counterclockwise. The speed of the drift tells you how far off. It's a different technology and visual representation than the traffic lights in say Boss/Snark. It doesn't need multicolour, the speed of the spin gives you that info. Iyswim.
@@ArturBrzozowski444 there are vids and tech descriptions of how strobes work on the Peterson website. I read them once, but I haven't needed to remember the details. Just direction of rotation and speed were the only things I needed to remember to use it. The shape of the stripe seems historical to me - older mechanical strobes used that pattern, so they mimicked it in the electronic display for familiarity I guess.
I would think that rollers would virtually eliminate any strings binding at the saddle compared with the saddle slots of a traditional bridge. There are also roller nuts that I haven't yet tried that would in theory offer the same vs. the slots in a traditional nut. Lubing traditional slots definitely helps, though is sort of a hack that needs to be applied regularly. However, I've seen some roller bridge implementations that eat sustain,,,
How about your impressions of the ZeroGlide Zero Fret on a Gibson...maybe a Les Paul Studio...Gibsons are notorious for the G and B strings playing sharp when fretted, even after tuned open...I have found that the Zero Fret solves this issue completely, making D and A chords RING beautifully!...even better than ever before with this product. The system is completely reversible, so it's definitely worth a try for only $35...what do you think?
Thank you for your video on this topic. I know I'm dreaming but...... I would love to see some high speed microscopic views of the string movement over the point of contact with the saddles for both types of bridges, ... and (although this would be tricky) also a tension analysis of the strings either side of the saddles during the process of using the "whammy" Given the distribution of forces (including friction) I actually suspect the roller saddles don't actually roll as one might suspect (if at all). If they really do roll freely then there would be no tension differential either side of the saddle. It's frustrating because if we can make vehicles that go to the moon, surely we can answer some fundamental questions about guitar mechanics. Maybe one day someone at NASA will be a guitar nut haha. The questions at the top of my list (other than the one you discuss here) are (1) the shape of grooves in nut saddles. and their impact on tuning stability. Also the material the nut is made from and it's geometry. (2)Tuning compensation at the nut (like Earvanea or Buzz Feiten). Their impact and practical benefit in terms of musicality and our human pitch resolution. (3) Sustain of the guitar as a function of mass, scale length and string tension.
The nut is the first place to look when there is tuning instability. But it doesn't hurt to have roller saddles. I put a Schaller roller saddle bridge on my Les Paul. Combined with locking tuners and a zero-fret nut, the tuning is rock solid and very responsive when I want to make a small change.
Absolutely not a gimmick. For trem systems that cover a significant _range,_ you will hardly get away with a standard tuna-matic bridge. I recommend the Les Trem II (if you can still get it somewhere) - that thing bends at least twice as much as your run-of-the-mill Bigsby.
@@ArturBrzozowski444 I have zero tuning issues with my 335 style HB. The other thing you should definitley install is a *String Butler* (Look at Darrell Braun's review for more). I also gave it a Graphtec TUSQ nut, and the Les Trem II itself is flawless. And it has a far greater range than any Bigsby. It also looks nicer if you ask me. Not as clunky and massive as the Big Bs.
So I have a Gretsch hollow body with Bigsby trem. Since it's hollow, the bridge sits completely on top of the guitar. I notice that the whole bridge mechanism rocks back and forth when I use the Bigsby. Doesn't seem like a good thing-the rollers might stop this. Also curious if you notice a difference in feel on the trem arm with the roller bridge. I've read reviews on some roller bridges that the rollers don't move under string tension.
i changed to a roller bridge i know from gigging with a trem bar its a massive improvement . better tuning stability and less string breakage with no tonal difference.
"If the bridge wobbles while using the tremolo there goes the tuning." Not necessarily. My '68 Tele with a Bigsby had a floating bridge and it was VERY stable with tuning. Regarding roller bridges... I put those into my Strat along with TUSQ nut and string guides and that fixed the tuning problems with the guitar.
Hi Kris. I really don't what more can I do.... I have a Epiphone Les Paul Modern with never ending tunning stability. Initially I have added the ABM Rollerbridge 2400c-RO C to increase the stability (installation and setup done by a proffesional) but it was worse. Then, I have personally installed Dietrich Parts String Butler V1 + Göldo LT2 Stop Tailpiece Tremolo C and is 100 times worse than the original hardware (fixed tail, no roller bridge). After a few strums or bends, even vibrato... is way out of tune. I applied lube everywhere (on the ABM Rollerbridge, on the nut and String Butler). All the products are fom Thomann. It really makes me not playing this guitar anymore. I am thinking to rollback all the changes....
This is relevant to my Gretsch White Falcon II. And may I suggest checking out Wilkinson Locking saddles. I'm wondering how much it would affect my strat's tunning stability.
@@MrTestallica I had one I took to a luthier and I just wasn’t possible. String butler helps with most tuning issues though. My ‘96 r8 it was close. The middle strings have low action but no buzz. The others are fine but a touch higher. The strings are more level than the radius but it’s barely noticeable unless you really look for it. It won’t work with all gibsons though
Can you hear a difference in the sound? I feel like I lost some snap or responsiveness in my tone when I switched from my Nashville to roller bridge. Sorry I know it's one of those dumb guitar guy things where it's hard to quantify with words but it really does feel like I lost something with the switch.
I have a roller bridge without a tremolo My strings last longer and usually don't break that fast also the tuning stays longer in tune I would love to have a roller nut also
The bridge from this video almost turned over bushings from my gibson les paul. When you tighten screws, they are tilted so much toward center of guitar. And you need to unscrew it to change bridge height, unlike gibson bridges that can be adjusted with allen wrench. So i admit this abm bridge has good design for saddles, but bad for attachments to the body
I understand why they made it that way but I think it is still bad design. Having a grub screw from the back or front like Tone Pros is better or a nut at the top to lock like Fader. In every other way the ABM looks high quality. It seems that nobody solves all the problems with these bridges.
I have an Ibanez SZ320 with Gibraltar 3 bridge with strings through body which is already ~15 years old and I'm looking for an ungrade. I wish that Schaller Hannes 6 would fit, but I guess the distance between bridge holes and strings holes are just too big :/ should I just go with this Schaller STM?
I would say, dive that sucker down, let it naturally get released, check tune. Then yank the sucker up, let it maturally get released, check tune. WITHOUT re diving (many know that trick) to correct the fault. Youll truely know the answer then. The only guitar I have that has passed that test is my EBMM jp6. And well, after 10 years of having it, IT no linger passes that trick... It just gets worse & worse with my other trems (except my brand new vegatrem).....
I just like the rollers because I started on a tele and got in the habit of palm muting on the bridge. That will cut your hand up if you have a stock Tune-O-Matic!
@@Ndlanding I'm saying that my first guitar was a tele, so I got into the habit of putting my palm ON the bridge when I palm muted, and when I started playing a Gibson I discovered the Tune-O-Matic would dig into my hand and make me bleed if I tried those tricks with that bridge. But when I switched to a wilkinson roller bridge it felt nice again.
@@baileywatts1304 I think I see, but I've used both bridges for many years and I can't see how a T-o-M can dig into your hand, since it has no protruding screws. I always try and shim Fenders (if I really have ot) so that the grub screws are as low as possible, cos I do hate them sticking into my delicate mitt.
I put a roller bridge on my SG and while picking the strings, the thinner strings pop out of the rollers. I don't remember where I purchased it or the brand. Any tips or advice? Any recommendations for a good solid roller bridge ???
Kris, Awesome tech information as always. Personally I'm not touching my semi hollow lol. I did notice there's no construction cone sticker on this guitar 😄😄
Bigger dives would show a bigger difference. Roller bridges help, but they're only 1/3 of the equation, the other 2 being the nut and whether you're using locking tuners.
Hello Chris! Can you please talk about pickups springs vs tube mounting? I have a guitar that tends to squeal at higher gain and wonder, if tubing could help for this issue. The pickups are currently wiggling a bit inside the mounting rings. Should the pickups generally be mounted as firm as possible? Servus from lower Bavaria!
do these rollers on the bridge really turn around its axis or is the pressure of the the strings so high, that the string slips over the roller when you use the trem?
The rollers have some play (air gap), so for slight moves of trem, rollers tilt on their base back and forth, and really roll with more substantial trem dives. These ABM bridges have much less air gap than TonePros, though.
Nice guitar, by the way ... I have to put out a warning! YOU did set up both bridges ... so no wonder even the non-roller bridge worked pretty well ... the results of us mere mortals may vary (;-))))
Haha, thanks man! 😄 Well, actually anyone who watches our "Better tuning stability with a bigsby" episode can get this same bridge setup. But yeah, the safest way is going for a good quality roller bridge, like this awesome ABM. Cheers //Kris
Hey, do you mean the roller bridge? There's a gear link in the video description, check it out. If you mean the standard bridge, it's just the one the guitar came with (original Gibson ABR-1). Cheers //Kris
Hm ... what's not to love regarding a roller bridge ... works for me AND - well, i'm poor - there is the Wilkinson roller bridge ... (i'd rather buy a new neck than paying ABM prices (;-))
I've used roller bridges on my guitars with bigsbys for something like 10 years, they work for me! I notice a huge drop in tuning stability when I get a new guitar without one.
I put roller saddles and a roller nut on my guitar.. you can absplutely hammer the whammy up and down like a angry gorilla killing a small tree for hours without loosing even one cent. So if you bend like a angry gorrilla and want to stay in tune yes rollers all the way around are very much your friend.
Hey Chris, as you say the bridge should not wobble when moving the Bigsby: I think it works pretty well like that, making it a rocker bridge. You need to keep the bridge saddles rather sharp edged under the wound strings, so they hook up in the strings. When using the vibrato, the saddles stay in the exact same position towards the strings, just the whole bridge rocks back and forth. That's how it's meant to be. Only downsides I see: The strings might break earlier, and, what's really annoying me, the bridge can sometimes loose its position, wrecking the whole intonation. Like when you have loosened some strings or changed them, it's really an issue to manually get the bridge in exact 90° angle again. Mechanically and in theory I think, rollers are the adequate thing actually.
The biggest advantage of this bridge is that the Strings will last longer because they'll turn the Rollers as you're tuning it to pitch
Pushing the tremolo/vibrato arm much deeper will reveal way more of a difference in the two types of saddles. I have found, after switching to a roller bridge on my Gretsch, that it was notably better under heavy rockabilly twangin'. I also recommend changing the nut a TUSQ (synthetic ivory), and lubricating the sting slots in the nut just before each live performance. If you want to go one step further you can also add locking machine heads, and all bases are covered.
Tx for sharing your findings.
Almost all bases...have a luthier instal a "zero" fret by cutting the nut in half and placing the nut in front of it. The zero fret lifts the strings a fraction so they don't bind in the slots of the nut. The nut still functions as before to align the strings and prevent side to side play.
I'd love to see a comparison between roller saddle and one of those graphtech super slippery tom saddles. If graphtech does the job as good as roller, I would lean on it.
My main gripe with the tune-o-matic bridge is when the saddles are reversed for the low strings to get extra scale length for intonation. This gives the break angle of the wound string a sharp edge to bear against. That edge just has to snag that string.
I use a roller bridge on my Les Paul. I don’t break strings as often because the contact is round. A traditional saddle has a sharp point.
Same here. I love them.
Same situation with my guitars
Only on my les Paul as well to limit string breaks.
I agree. My buddy had sharp saddles, broke strings all the time. Roller everything is good. Roller: bridge saddles, nuts, string trees.
¿Has notado algo en el tono? gracias
Iv got a roller bridge on an SG with no vibrato . The intonation is pretty good now when before the old one was junk . I like a good roller bridge .
U guys do good work , thanks for putting these out .
How was the sustain was there any difference
Could you do a video about roller nuts? Or at least on what's needed to replace a regular one with a roller? I've heard they're a PITA to install.
The metal zero fret nut on the 2015-2016 Les Paul Classic is pretty low-friction, unless you use flat-wound strings. And even with flat wounds, it is better than a plastic or bone nut.
Nice review. I installed a roller bridge ahead of my B5, all my problems ended , presto. Accuracy jumped way up. Stayed in tune for months. I also recommend Sperzel locking tuners. Mine are perfect after 25 years of hard use
Would like to see a roller nut x bone nut comparison.
Great video, Kris 🤓
Beware of radius, most replacement roller bridges have 14” radius while gibsons have 12” radius fretboard. I know only ABM and TonePros rollers that have 12” radius
true...i have a 14" radius bridge on my 12" radius epiphone...NO ISSUES...in fact a bridge slightly flatter than neck feels great to me...did it again on purpose on another guit
I hope they make versions with other Radiuses to accommodate various Guitars
Two of the three roller bridges I tried that were stated to have a 12" radius were actually 18" to 20" the last one I bought and now use was a true 12" radius and it works out great with my Bigsby.
I actually bought it because the original roller on the guitar I bought (used) was a 20" and my neck has a 12" radius. All Parts sells shims (Amazon has them) for locking roller bridges so you can adjust the radius by individual saddle if you want. Or you can make your own shims. I didn't need to use shims after I found the correct radius bridge but it was an option I considered.
I was more concerned about the action on my D & G strings setting a higher limit than I wanted for my B & E (not to mention E & A) vs. staying in tune. Staying in tune was not really an issue and I ride the Bigsby a bit harder than demonstrated here some of the time when I use it but I do bend the shit out of the G, B & A all the time. I not saying I didn't have to check my tuning between songs here and there with the roller but I always do anyway with any guitar I play since the Snark type tuners came along a few decades back. Between bends and whammy I tend to push it sometimes.
@@scottraycraft5151 And you have no problems with the action of the high and low E string being a bit higher? or you like higher action?
@@danielb5081 Which one did you buy which ended up the correct 12"?
I recently got an Epiphone Casino and took a chance on an £18 roller bridge (Vanson) to replace the well-known rattley Epi bridge. I was was so impressed I got one for the Les Paul Studio as well. Given the choice why would you run strings over the sharp edge of a chisel!? 🙃
It really works !
I've been using these types of bridges FOR AGES, but only from the best company which is ABM Guitar Parts, in Berlin, Germany. I think it's the brand of Roller Bridges that Thomann sells.
Still, you need to do something for the nut, like a high quality lubricant applied in the nut slots (especially the G string), and you'll always have issues with bridges which have "lowering bars" like the Bigsby B5, B7, B12, B50, B70, B500 & B700, except if you have one of these fancy "lowering bars" equipped with "micro ball bearings".
#1 A few on Vibratos and Tremolos: All The Various Option TYPES - such as Vibratos used on SG Type Guitars; Fender Type Guitars; Gretsch Type Guitars/ Body Types. #2 - A SUPERVEE BLADERUNNER INSTALL ON A STRAT with the Added STABILIZER also. Thanks!!
What?
Have this setup on my SG with a Bigsby, but I also put on locking tuners and use some lube in the nut for extra stability.
That's the ultimate safety right there! 👍 I bet it's a cool guitar! Cheers //Kris
10/19/2022: I installed a roller bridge in my Gretch G5120 Hollow body< did not check if it was better or worse for strings slightly going out of tune. But, what drove me crazy was the rollers rattled a lot. Maybe I bought a cheap set? But, I put the original bridge back on and it works fine. Instead of just sticking a string through the post and then winding, I find locking the strings on the posts helped the most. There are videos teaching this technique.
I'm really curious as to which brand you bought. 10 minutes ago I ordered an ABM roller bridge for my Country Classic 6122 - 1958, I hope this noise issue is relevant for different brands!
Of course they help. Especially nylon saddles with a vibrato. The sharp saddles on any tune-o-matic ridge and even the brass saddles on a telecaster I had to file down because if kept popping my D string. Edit : of course I'm speaking about breaking strings , not only tuning which is an issue with the V saddles but you can file them and lube them. Or you can fix it so you don't have to that anymore. At least not nearly as much.
Bridge friction is only one of a number of things that can cause tuning instability. So putting in a roller bridge won't magically solve all your tuning instability problems if you've also got a sticky nut or string trees.. or crap tuning machines, or new strings that are still stretching, etc.
The suttle Wicked Game was nice. Keep up the good work.
Thanks a lot Charles! :) Cheers //Kris
Thomann is simply the best! Great online shop, great tech videos, nice service. Thanks for doing this job so great! 😊🤘👍👍👍
Plus: These don't have these ToM springs that cause rattle noise. I use that particular model on a jazz master
What bridge do you use for your Jazzmaster? The TOM (or AOM) on mine are cut too low I think so my strings sound tinny and metallic
@@josuesorto3453 i went with a roller bridge by ABM. But there are other options by mastery a.o. but whatch out of these are made to replace TOMs or the original type of moving bridge.
I fitted the roller bridges to most of my gretsch guitars. Much better than the tunamatic blade saddle one.
Go for the rollerbridge - Tusq or roller nut combination and all tuning issues when using a Bigsby-style are over. I can even dive bomb, well as "dive a bomb" you can go with a Bigsby
and my guitar stays in tune.
On Gibson LP with tusq xl nut and les trem I tried two roller bridges, this abm and tonepros, both did not work well enough, strings do not return to zero, but stay a bit in the direction of the last trem arm move.
I have no clue what I have seen on this tuner. I could not tune my guitar with this one! :-D
My issue with the standard bridge on my Gretch w/ Bigsby is the flexing of that bridge. I can see the bridge flexing back and forth with use of the Bigsby. I'm afraid that will eventually weaken the bridge mounting. I want to know if a roller bridge will allow more bridge mounting stability.
Thanks for the demo, I have been debating putting a roller bridge on my Gibson Les Paul!
The timbre has also changed and the attack has become softer on the drive, it will be more noticeable, you need to experiment with a bone, chick or shtoto from high-alloy steel
i have a Gretsch electromatic with Bigsby , with the standard tuning keys and bridge, it gets out of tune after each use the Tremelo, installing locking tune keys and a roller bridge makes a lot of difference
I put a roller bridge on my Gretsch G6118T (MIJ) which has a Bigsby B6 vibrato. The only advantage with the roller bridge is the ability to intonate accurately. Otherwise, it was a fail. The problem is with the break angle over the bridge saddles (rollers). With the B6 vibrato the angle is so shallow that even lightly energetic playing knocks the low E string off the roller. It's also happened with the A string. If the rollers on the lower strings had a deeper channel maybe it wouldn't happen. So, I'm now considering a Compton bridge, which has more generalised intonation, but it's better than none, right?
You didn't mention issue with buzzing saddles on roller bridge. I suppose that ABM don't have it but it happens on many roller bridges and makes me kinda anxious about investing in them
Video idea: how to read the strobe tuner. I was just guessing that if it's green then it's fine but what the stripes mean 😅
The colours are just for personal preference, you can pick half a dozen. The whole single-colour display changes.
Think of the striped disc as a rotating wheel. If it's perfectly in-tune (to 0.1 cents!) it's stationary. If it's sharp it drifts clockwise. Flat counterclockwise. The speed of the drift tells you how far off.
It's a different technology and visual representation than the traffic lights in say Boss/Snark. It doesn't need multicolour, the speed of the spin gives you that info. Iyswim.
I have the same problem with my roller bridge, it’s almost like a clicking noise.
@@PaulCooksStuff This is very accurate, thank You 💓
Why there are two stripped discs? Is it different harmonic frequencies or what?
@@ArturBrzozowski444 there are vids and tech descriptions of how strobes work on the Peterson website. I read them once, but I haven't needed to remember the details. Just direction of rotation and speed were the only things I needed to remember to use it. The shape of the stripe seems historical to me - older mechanical strobes used that pattern, so they mimicked it in the electronic display for familiarity I guess.
@@PaulCooksStuff Right, they have manuals 😅
You're great man, thanks once again!
A properly slotted and lubed nut helps more than these bridges but the roller bridge certainly doesn't hurt.
I would think that rollers would virtually eliminate any strings binding at the saddle compared with the saddle slots of a traditional bridge. There are also roller nuts that I haven't yet tried that would in theory offer the same vs. the slots in a traditional nut. Lubing traditional slots definitely helps, though is sort of a hack that needs to be applied regularly. However, I've seen some roller bridge implementations that eat sustain,,,
How about your impressions of the ZeroGlide Zero Fret on a Gibson...maybe a Les Paul Studio...Gibsons are notorious for the G and B strings playing sharp when fretted, even after tuned open...I have found that the Zero Fret solves this issue completely, making D and A chords RING beautifully!...even better than ever before with this product. The system is completely reversible, so it's definitely worth a try for only $35...what do you think?
I'd like to know more about this.
I agree with the breakage that is where my strings break the most at the saddle
Graph Tech String Saver saddles work well too
Thank you for your video on this topic.
I know I'm dreaming but......
I would love to see some high speed microscopic views of the string movement over the point of contact with the saddles for both types of bridges, ... and (although this would be tricky) also a tension analysis of the strings either side of the saddles during the process of using the "whammy"
Given the distribution of forces (including friction) I actually suspect the roller saddles don't actually roll as one might suspect (if at all). If they really do roll freely then there would be no tension differential either side of the saddle.
It's frustrating because if we can make vehicles that go to the moon, surely we can answer some fundamental questions about guitar mechanics. Maybe one day someone at NASA will be a guitar nut haha.
The questions at the top of my list (other than the one you discuss here) are
(1) the shape of grooves in nut saddles. and their impact on tuning stability. Also the material the nut is made from and it's geometry.
(2)Tuning compensation at the nut (like Earvanea or Buzz Feiten). Their impact and practical benefit in terms of musicality and our human pitch resolution.
(3) Sustain of the guitar as a function of mass, scale length and string tension.
The nut is the first place to look when there is tuning instability. But it doesn't hurt to have roller saddles. I put a Schaller roller saddle bridge on my Les Paul. Combined with locking tuners and a zero-fret nut, the tuning is rock solid and very responsive when I want to make a small change.
Absolutely not a gimmick. For trem systems that cover a significant _range,_ you will hardly get away with a standard tuna-matic bridge. I recommend the Les Trem II (if you can still get it somewhere) - that thing bends at least twice as much as your run-of-the-mill Bigsby.
Do you recommend Les Trem II? I'm thinking about installing it on my Epiphone LP Special and I'm worried about tuning stability
@@ArturBrzozowski444 I have zero tuning issues with my 335 style HB. The other thing you should definitley install is a *String Butler* (Look at Darrell Braun's review for more). I also gave it a Graphtec TUSQ nut, and the Les Trem II itself is flawless. And it has a far greater range than any Bigsby. It also looks nicer if you ask me. Not as clunky and massive as the Big Bs.
So I have a Gretsch hollow body with Bigsby trem. Since it's hollow, the bridge sits completely on top of the guitar. I notice that the whole bridge mechanism rocks back and forth when I use the Bigsby. Doesn't seem like a good thing-the rollers might stop this. Also curious if you notice a difference in feel on the trem arm with the roller bridge. I've read reviews on some roller bridges that the rollers don't move under string tension.
i changed to a roller bridge i know from gigging with a trem bar its a massive improvement . better tuning stability and less string breakage with no tonal difference.
☝If you also play fingerbendings on a Bigsby guitar, the roller bridge is a considerable relief. 🙂
"If the bridge wobbles while using the tremolo there goes the tuning." Not necessarily. My '68 Tele with a Bigsby had a floating bridge and it was VERY stable with tuning. Regarding roller bridges... I put those into my Strat along with TUSQ nut and string guides and that fixed the tuning problems with the guitar.
rocker bridge is supposed to wobble
@@ericajohnson7535 of course.
Hi Kris.
I really don't what more can I do.... I have a Epiphone Les Paul Modern with never ending tunning stability.
Initially I have added the ABM Rollerbridge 2400c-RO C to increase the stability (installation and setup done by a proffesional) but it was worse.
Then, I have personally installed Dietrich Parts String Butler V1 + Göldo LT2 Stop Tailpiece Tremolo C and is 100 times worse than the original hardware (fixed tail, no roller bridge).
After a few strums or bends, even vibrato... is way out of tune.
I applied lube everywhere (on the ABM Rollerbridge, on the nut and String Butler).
All the products are fom Thomann.
It really makes me not playing this guitar anymore. I am thinking to rollback all the changes....
I know it was a Bigsby style Trem/vibe but I wonder what a few dive bombs would have shown up?
This is relevant to my Gretsch White Falcon II.
And may I suggest checking out Wilkinson Locking saddles. I'm wondering how much it would affect my strat's tunning stability.
Where did you get that giant tuner? I want one!!
I can’t remember the last time I broke a string and I play 4-6 hours a day. I love rolling bridges and they are mandatory on all my gibsons
Did you have problems with Radius. I read earlier about some problems with the radius being different on roller saddles then Gibsons
@@MrTestallica I had one I took to a luthier and I just wasn’t possible. String butler helps with most tuning issues though. My ‘96 r8 it was close. The middle strings have low action but no buzz. The others are fine but a touch higher. The strings are more level than the radius but it’s barely noticeable unless you really look for it. It won’t work with all gibsons though
Can you hear a difference in the sound? I feel like I lost some snap or responsiveness in my tone when I switched from my Nashville to roller bridge. Sorry I know it's one of those dumb guitar guy things where it's hard to quantify with words but it really does feel like I lost something with the switch.
I have a roller bridge without a tremolo
My strings last longer and usually don't break that fast also the tuning stays longer in tune
I would love to have a roller nut also
👌 . Improve single coil pickup noisy?
The bridge from this video almost turned over bushings from my gibson les paul. When you tighten screws, they are tilted so much toward center of guitar. And you need to unscrew it to change bridge height, unlike gibson bridges that can be adjusted with allen wrench. So i admit this abm bridge has good design for saddles, but bad for attachments to the body
I understand why they made it that way but I think it is still bad design. Having a grub screw from the back or front like Tone Pros is better or a nut at the top to lock like Fader. In every other way the ABM looks high quality. It seems that nobody solves all the problems with these bridges.
I have an Epiphone Wildkat. Came with a TOM. Was untunable/unplayable till it was replaced with a roller.
I have an Ibanez SZ320 with Gibraltar 3 bridge with strings through body which is already ~15 years old and I'm looking for an ungrade. I wish that Schaller Hannes 6 would fit, but I guess the distance between bridge holes and strings holes are just too big :/ should I just go with this Schaller STM?
I would say, dive that sucker down, let it naturally get released, check tune. Then yank the sucker up, let it maturally get released, check tune. WITHOUT re diving (many know that trick) to correct the fault. Youll truely know the answer then. The only guitar I have that has passed that test is my EBMM jp6. And well, after 10 years of having it, IT no linger passes that trick... It just gets worse & worse with my other trems (except my brand new vegatrem).....
You need new springs.
I just like the rollers because I started on a tele and got in the habit of palm muting on the bridge. That will cut your hand up if you have a stock Tune-O-Matic!
Tele? Tune-o-matic? This does not compute.
@@Ndlanding I'm saying that my first guitar was a tele, so I got into the habit of putting my palm ON the bridge when I palm muted, and when I started playing a Gibson I discovered the Tune-O-Matic would dig into my hand and make me bleed if I tried those tricks with that bridge. But when I switched to a wilkinson roller bridge it felt nice again.
@@baileywatts1304 I think I see, but I've used both bridges for many years and I can't see how a T-o-M can dig into your hand, since it has no protruding screws. I always try and shim Fenders (if I really have ot) so that the grub screws are as low as possible, cos I do hate them sticking into my delicate mitt.
Great job grish keep it up love all your videos.😊
Try winding up the D
tuning peg, instead of down!
next; talk about roller nut vs nut sauce vs graphtech nuts; etc
I put a roller bridge on my SG and while picking the strings, the thinner strings pop out of the rollers. I don't remember where I purchased it or the brand. Any tips or advice? Any recommendations for a good solid roller bridge ???
Kris,
Awesome tech information as always. Personally I'm not touching my semi hollow lol. I did notice there's no construction cone sticker on this guitar 😄😄
Hah, I bought one from Thomann’s last week 😁 love it 👌 also way better quality from your standard bridge
You'll love it! ABM has mind blowing quality! Cheers //Kris
Bigger dives would show a bigger difference. Roller bridges help, but they're only 1/3 of the equation, the other 2 being the nut and whether you're using locking tuners.
Get the ABM roller bridge AND the ABM studs and your life will be better!
It definitely saves strings.
Regular tunomatic rough to 3rd, 2nd,1st.
Hello Chris! Can you please talk about pickups springs vs tube mounting? I have a guitar that tends to squeal at higher gain and wonder, if tubing could help for this issue. The pickups are currently wiggling a bit inside the mounting rings. Should the pickups generally be mounted as firm as possible? Servus from lower Bavaria!
Put a piece of foam underneath pickup !
do these rollers on the bridge really turn around its axis or is the pressure of the the strings so high, that the string slips over the roller when you use the trem?
The rollers have some play (air gap), so for slight moves of trem, rollers tilt on their base back and forth, and really roll with more substantial trem dives. These ABM bridges have much less air gap than TonePros, though.
"Conspiracy Face." Now _there's_ a band name! LOL!
What is better? This ABM Rollerbridge or Schaller?
Seemed like there was less tremolo response with the roller bridge. Like less tremolo attack.
Cool comparison, very well done! Beutiful guitar too 😍
Thanks a lot! //Kris
Roll on 🤘🏽
😄👍
Nice guitar, by the way ...
I have to put out a warning! YOU did set up both bridges ... so no wonder even the non-roller bridge worked pretty well ...
the results of us mere mortals may vary (;-))))
Haha, thanks man! 😄 Well, actually anyone who watches our "Better tuning stability with a bigsby" episode can get this same bridge setup. But yeah, the safest way is going for a good quality roller bridge, like this awesome ABM. Cheers //Kris
What brand and type of bridge did you fit i need one for my gretsch g5655tg
Hey, do you mean the roller bridge? There's a gear link in the video description, check it out. If you mean the standard bridge, it's just the one the guitar came with (original Gibson ABR-1). Cheers //Kris
What tuner is that?
Now i want to play Summertime Blues and Wicked Game xD
If like to see steel vs brass saddles
Im doing it because the sharp friction causes my strings to keep breaking.
GOOD INFO KRIS MUCH THANKS
Wicked conspiracy face! Thanks Kris! Nice comparison! 😊👍
IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!! 🤣 Thanks buddy! //Kris
I prefer the roller bridge because the original of my epiphone les paul destroyed the strings after few bendings.
Hm ... what's not to love regarding a roller bridge ... works for me AND - well, i'm poor - there is the Wilkinson roller bridge ... (i'd rather buy a new neck than paying ABM prices (;-))
What model and year is that ES-335?
It's an ES-330L and I think they only made these around 2015. So it has the contours and pickups of a 335 but it's full hollow. Cheers //Kris
Animal at the end?
I've used roller bridges on my guitars with bigsbys for something like 10 years, they work for me! I notice a huge drop in tuning stability when I get a new guitar without one.
Awesome video..2thumbs up.
Ive been playing guitar since 1963 and if you have a Bigsby you need a roller bridge.
4:50 you're welcome
The roller sounded better or you played better
I put roller saddles and a roller nut on my guitar.. you can absplutely hammer the whammy up and down like a angry gorilla killing a small tree for hours without loosing even one cent. So if you bend like a angry gorrilla and want to stay in tune yes rollers all the way around are very much your friend.
after the strings were all in tune after playing with a normal bridge the rest of the video was kinda pointless no?
Thanks Kris
One day I’ll buy a bigsby guitar
Or maybe not 😁
2:16 3:19
Is it just me or what? The sound seems to be darken a bit after changing to the roller bridge.
i didn't understand how that tuner works cause i'm dumb but to my ear the stock bridge stays in tune better than my edge III
The pattern around the letter should stand still if the string is perfectly tuned.
Hey Chris, as you say the bridge should not wobble when moving the Bigsby: I think it works pretty well like that, making it a rocker bridge. You need to keep the bridge saddles rather sharp edged under the wound strings, so they hook up in the strings. When using the vibrato, the saddles stay in the exact same position towards the strings, just the whole bridge rocks back and forth. That's how it's meant to be.
Only downsides I see: The strings might break earlier, and, what's really annoying me, the bridge can sometimes loose its position, wrecking the whole intonation. Like when you have loosened some strings or changed them, it's really an issue to manually get the bridge in exact 90° angle again. Mechanically and in theory I think, rollers are the adequate thing actually.
Not to mention, it sounds way better when using the tremolo
Yeah. That did seem to be the case.
Good test. To my ears the roller bridge made the 330 brighter.
You made a point: swapping the bridge might change the tone…!
I'm not certain I can hear that, but the roller bridge is certainly not darker sounding.
Where's Julia ?
of course it works
roller is way better , also bright tone out of it.
For a minute there I thought he had the world's largest tuner