When one mentions the "Short Form", one usually refers to the Beijing 24-Form. What the gentleman in the video is performing is actually the Cheng Man Ch'ing 37-Form, which is basically a condensed verison of the Yang Style 108-Form, created by Yang Cheng Fu. Nicely done, though.
This is very nicely done, the naysayers here notwithstanding. Everyone does his or her form a little differently, to suit his or own body and its dynamics. This man is fluid and supple though some of his postures are executed differently than I am familiar with. Nevertheless, one cannot assess a form in cookie cutter fashion. You have to see the dynamic itself, as implemented in the particular body.I liked the use of the poems as backdrop, too. Well done.
This is the same 37 step form taught by Dong Tsailiang(senior student of Cheng Manching) and Inoch Yu in Taipei and later in US.Cheng Manching learned Taichichaun from Yang Chengfu.Hope that helps.
There are clear guidelines for good practice. This is not some kind of subjective squishy sport. All of the basic principles have been laid down in clear language. If you seek you shall find these. This man is demonstrating the basic principles, some of which he states in his narration.
There are as many indelible principle and their interpretations as their is so called masters, if you are referring to the so called tai chi classics I have about sa dozen different English translations all slightly or considerably different, and if you read it in the original old mandarin it is mostly metaphorical aphorisms open to interpretation and conjecture, I am not sure where people get off with this the tai chi principles as an objective statement and point of reference stuff for a few vague subjective generalizations, they were written mostly by Wu Yu Hsiang and his brothers, particularly the one written allegedly by Chang seng feng which had never been sighted before Wu Yu Hsiang mysteriously found it in a salt shop, he co-incidentally happened to be a salt merchant, and when the historian Tang Hao sighted them he said the parchment could not have been more than 50 years old in the early 20th Century Wu Yu Hsiang appeared with them mid 1800's. Basically the clans held on to politically propagated myths like any organization struggling for power, and thousand 's of gullible know nothing know it all's think you can singularly define and characterize all taiji, get over it, mate.Taiji is as your teacher teaches if you choose to believe or not, nothing more nothing less.
very inspiring video. the dialogue you chose is very moving and really monumental in it's simplicity. this has helped me on my journey to learn the form. so thank you kindly for this wonderful contribution. .I am curious to know if there might be a transcript of it or references to search for these anonymous quotes. so much wisdom. excellent video and such a gift to a student. many thanks.
Yang Cheng Fu said that he had modified his father's form as much as possible while still keeping the essence of Tai Chi. He forbade his students (Chen Man-ching) from changing his form. Yet, that's exactly what he did.
+sunbin64 Unfortunately Yang Cheng Fu was a bit of a bully. Knocked CMC out cold twice in push hands where the student is not at all combative, according to teachers of mine who evidently really know about these things from extensive research. Personally I think a student should always modify for oneself as every body and energy system is different. My form is always changing, I'd be interested to hear your views on the example from a year ago on my channel
I don't comment on other people's form. (Only looking for trouble if one does that.)Like you've said, it's your form and a person can really only do his/her own Tai Chi. Personally, I dislike the forms that Cheng Fu's putative students devised. (Sometimes for monetary reasons.) I think it would have been better if they had stuck to Cheng's form as the basic form to teach beginners. (just my opinion)As far as Cheng Fu is concerned, you have to understand the context of the times. This was a time when his family claimed to be untouchable as far as actual fighting was concerned. It was a serious business as death often resulted from contests. Was he abusive to students? Perhaps so but the times were different. Cheng Fu claimed not to have the energy left to walk up the steps of his house after training with his father. How many people train Tai Chi like that today?
@Tyson Durr Except his form when he died was very similar to before he became obese. However you view him he was one of the last great Yang Style masters who knew a great deal more about tai chi than chen man ching. His form when executed correctly is genius as were the forms that he modified to create it. In fact the old frame is not hugely different to the form YCF created in terms of physical difficulty to perform. I don't think anyone alive today know enough about tai chi to modify the yang style further.
This is only part of the videotape.You can either use a RUclips downloader byGoogling:RUclips Downloader.It's free.Or you can buy the whole video from Play.com(DVD at £15.99,free dellivery),Amazon(in VHS format at £5.94,plus £2.80 mail charge,find it used by googling it furthermore.
I'm studying with one of Robert Smith's students now. It's been great so far, but I am not previously familiar with the Yang style or its long form, besides having watched people do it.
This is great - love the deep words - but I'm curious why I can't find a video anywhere of They Soon Tuan's style, which, my teacher tells me, was CMC's original way of doing Taichi, before he changed it to suit westerners. Or am I wrong?
Yang Short Form? No. The clue is in the opening comment; this is a design of Cheng Man Ching. He was from Taipei and is said to have taught Mrs Chiang Kai Shek. This is how he became well-known. He moved to New York and lionised by many including Robert Smith. I don't know how adept he really was, as opinions differ.
Astonishing how the form has changed and morphed into each persons distortions; the form is the teacher; this is actually Yin Style - no Yang in it whatsoever; must use small san-sau to understand combat applications; get rid of the dead hands; do it with your eyes half shut, be able to apply faijin to each and every moment of each move; timing and combat biomechanics will correct each move into reality; go into the void first; it is mind boxing remember; we become what we practice; so stop practicing mistakes??
oh man everyone is master here. Theres no problem with changing form. Two person cant make exact same movements at all. Thats the beauty. Forget about tai-chi competitions. Its about inner chi :)
To find out if your form is real rather than nonsense, just speed up each application to 'real' combat self protection speed and power with a determined attacker getting you instant knowledge of results. That requires no Mastery, just common sense, but it may lead to some form of Mastery rather than nonsense.
relex your foot fingers,,do not stretch them up,if you pull the balls of the feet back you see the bone fingers getting str8,we supose to work our joint like robbot,,robot have same human joints,our joints have one direction to twist not a lot of direction,if robot twist the joint it break up,but human joint does not break,we twist and twist until it get jammed(when get old)thats why old people when they fall they broke hip naturaly and elbow maybe shaulder and hand palm,thats beacause they have disorded joints thats why they break them up
A nice flow form done by Mr Paul Crompton, one of the former chinese martial arts pioneers in UK. His martial arts background is external japanese martial arts like Karate, and so his tai chi movement, at that time, was acceptable but very far from the true essence of Professor Cheng Man Ching Tai Chi.
This is the best demo on You Tube that I can find. I haven't been to class for many years and would really appreciate a back view so I can follow along. Paul, can you show us your backside.
+Tai Chi Cheshire I will not comment, whether your performance is better. How ever,, I will say, that, i notice small pauses between postures, in your performance. some movements are exaggerated. A nice flow over all. Take my comments with a grain of salt! i am, by no means an expert Though i have been in Martial Arts most of my life, ( I love taiji ) I do not have any video of my self on my channel, but I am compiling a list of my favorites, that I find on youtube, under a playlist of ('kung fu') feel free to take a look. Best wishes to you and your family. Happy Holidays. :)
+Jim O'Callahan Please check my form (on my channel) and let me know how much I violate the 5 principles and if so where, I always value constructive criticism
@@taichicheshire hi, I just happened to check a few replies to comments and found yours. It's commendable to post your own example. As you've asked for some constructive feedback, I hope you don't mind if I make the following points (if you're not happy with it, for whatever reason, please let me know and I'll delete it). 1. My first impression was that you have obviously worked a long time on this form and have given it your own flavour. The sequence is faithfully reproduced in terms of the posture order up until the second cross hands - which would normally close the 37 form. Instead, you continue into a series of postures taken from the Yang Long Form. You've also added a couple of extra kicks within some of the movements. I imagine that's your own modification for practice purposes. I'm sure I also add my flavour to it, although I keep to the traditional sequences that I learned with my teacher - which was the Yang 47 step CMC variation and Yang long forms. Since then I have practised the standard CMC 37 form and I've been trying to do the form on the right side for a different type of practice and working different parts of mind and body. I frequently return to videos of Cheng Man Ch'ing and Dr. Chi Chiang Tao as my go-to reference in the absence of a bonafide CMC Tai Chi teacher. ruclips.net/video/8zRKrPJE1d8/видео.html ruclips.net/video/7AbuLI7Hgxg/видео.html 2. It appears to me that your rear leg often has the knee collapsing inwardly, this can cause knee damage over time, I would try and keep my knee joint aligned with hip and ankle. 3. Forward bow stances are overly extended (possibly causing knee collapsing in point No.2), occasionally the leading leg knee overextended past the foot - this is also putting extra strain on the knee joint of the forward leg. Look after your knees - you'll need them healthy, as you get older knee injuries can be really debilitating. 4. The rear foot is not evenly planted on the ground when you shift weight, the contact with the ground should feel energetically rooted, but not tense, this would then avoid the lifting upward of the outer edge of the rear foot (although insubstantial when going forward, it should still be rooting to the ground) 5. It looks to me that you have a hard style martial arts background, and this seems to be influencing how you are practising this form. For example, I hear sharp exhalation on the end of some movements, where there is also a pause in movement (not a wuji pause, more a kind of tense pause - at least it looks that way to me watching this video) 6. Facial expression seems tense and suggests mind is not relaxed. This tension is evident in the form itself also. I think it could be because you are aiming to make your form look more practical (external?) as a martial art, in the sense that you are imagining an opponent. Visualisation of an adversary can help alignment of posture, but I think we should still be relaxing (song) and not actually projecting force into the limbs. The energy focus would be best applied internally as much as possible. I make these observations based on corrections that I received myself over many years with my own teacher, John Kells in London, from the late 80s through most of the 90s. I hope you find them helpful in your practise too.
IT'S A PITY THAT TAI CHI MASTERS HAVE BEEN BEEING BEATEN UP BY MMA PRACTITIONERS. THIS IS A REMINDER TO NOT ONLY FOCUS ON FIGHTING OTHER TAI CHI STUDENTS BUT TO MOVE OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE AND TAKE ON THE WHOLE MARTIAL ARTS WORLD
“Renown” (sic) by whom? Is this supposed to be Ch’eng Man-ch’ing’s Yang Short Form? If so, what happened to “Separate Weight” and “Beautiful Lady’s Hand”? Oh well, I guess 3 out of 5 Principles ain’t bad-except that in this style, it is! Sorry, I don’t by any means pretend to be an expert, but if you’’re going to imply that you are one by posting your demonstration video on RUclips, you should at least get the basics right. There’s already enough bad Taiji on the Internet.
Get a life fellow Tai chi people. There's always someone who knows better. Don't forget opinions are like arses everyone has got one. Life is to complex at this time of death and lockdown let's praise people for bothering to load videos and if we think we know better let's just quitely go our own way in our own practises whatever they may be😊
You freeze the sequence during your spin. Because you lost your balance and messed up the take. You fixed it then by doing a close up insert/pickup, and then continued the form. You should have filmed a retake from the top and done the whole form in one piece. Bad practice. No perseverance.
![OhGeesy x Lefty Gunplay - What It Iz [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/L0yzW9t2ixk/mqdefault.jpg)
Studied with someone who did this style for years... this is one of the best representations of how this should be done that I have seen.
I went to Paul Crompton's classes in Fulham in the 90s. A truly inspiring teacher!
When one mentions the "Short Form", one usually refers to the Beijing 24-Form. What the gentleman in the video is performing is actually the Cheng Man Ch'ing 37-Form, which is basically a condensed verison of the Yang Style 108-Form, created by Yang Cheng Fu. Nicely done, though.
This is very nicely done, the naysayers here notwithstanding. Everyone does his or her form a little differently, to suit his or own body and its dynamics. This man is fluid and supple though some of his postures are executed differently than I am familiar with. Nevertheless, one cannot assess a form in cookie cutter fashion. You have to see the dynamic itself, as implemented in the particular body.I liked the use of the poems as backdrop, too. Well done.
This is the same 37 step form taught by Dong Tsailiang(senior student of Cheng Manching) and Inoch Yu in Taipei and later in US.Cheng Manching learned Taichichaun from Yang Chengfu.Hope that helps.
Wonderful. I studied with you, Paul, for 5 years some 26 years ago. Hello.
There are clear guidelines for good practice. This is not some kind of subjective squishy sport. All of the basic principles have been laid down in clear language. If you seek you shall find these. This man is demonstrating the basic principles, some of which he states in his narration.
There are as many indelible principle and their interpretations as their is so called masters, if you are referring to the so called tai chi classics I have about sa dozen different English translations all slightly or considerably different, and if you read it in the original old mandarin it is mostly metaphorical aphorisms open to interpretation and conjecture, I am not sure where people get off with this the tai chi principles as an objective statement and point of reference stuff for a few vague subjective generalizations, they were written mostly by Wu Yu Hsiang and his brothers, particularly the one written allegedly by Chang seng feng which had never been sighted before Wu Yu Hsiang mysteriously found it in a salt shop, he co-incidentally happened to be a salt merchant, and when the historian Tang Hao sighted them he said the parchment could not have been more than 50 years old in the early 20th Century Wu Yu Hsiang appeared with them mid 1800's. Basically the clans held on to politically propagated myths like any organization struggling for power, and thousand 's of gullible know nothing know it all's think you can singularly define and characterize all taiji, get over it, mate.Taiji is as your teacher teaches if you choose to believe or not, nothing more nothing less.
One of the first three people to bring Tai Chi to the UK in the 1960s.
Thank you for the commentary. Did you enjoy this?
Is there a step by step instructional video for this form? I took this form in college but it’s been too many years since. Thank you
Thank you for posting. This is an excellent video. You strike a nice balance between flow and relaxation. How long have you been playing the form?
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Hear the soundless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn The Way, then find your own way.
very inspiring video. the dialogue you chose is very moving and really monumental in it's simplicity. this has helped me on my journey to learn the form. so thank you kindly for this wonderful contribution. .I am curious to know if there might be a transcript of it or references to search for these anonymous quotes. so much wisdom. excellent video and such a gift to a student. many thanks.
Thank you for posting. I had forgotten so much. this really helped.
Taichi is inner energ a great form and great healer
I know this form and I think your body mechanics are awesome. I wouldn't say It's rigid but i think he's trying to express energy through the body
Yang Cheng Fu said that he had modified his father's form as much as possible while still keeping the essence of Tai Chi. He forbade his students (Chen Man-ching) from changing his form. Yet, that's exactly what he did.
+sunbin64 Unfortunately Yang Cheng Fu was a bit of a bully. Knocked CMC out cold twice in push hands where the student is not at all combative, according to teachers of mine who evidently really know about these things from extensive research. Personally I think a student should always modify for oneself as every body and energy system is different. My form is always changing, I'd be interested to hear your views on the example from a year ago on my channel
I don't comment on other people's form. (Only looking for trouble if one does that.)Like you've said, it's your form and a person can really only do his/her own Tai Chi. Personally, I dislike the forms that Cheng Fu's putative students devised. (Sometimes for monetary reasons.) I think it would have been better if they had stuck to Cheng's form as the basic form to teach beginners. (just my opinion)As far as Cheng Fu is concerned, you have to understand the context of the times. This was a time when his family claimed to be untouchable as far as actual fighting was concerned. It was a serious business as death often resulted from contests. Was he abusive to students? Perhaps so but the times were different. Cheng Fu claimed not to have the energy left to walk up the steps of his house after training with his father. How many people train Tai Chi like that today?
@Tyson Durr Except his form when he died was very similar to before he became obese. However you view him he was one of the last great Yang Style masters who knew a great deal more about tai chi than chen man ching. His form when executed correctly is genius as were the forms that he modified to create it. In fact the old frame is not hugely different to the form YCF created in terms of physical difficulty to perform. I don't think anyone alive today know enough about tai chi to modify the yang style further.
Very good. This is almost identical to the way we do the Short Form.
Jerry, vet du någon i sverige som lär ut denna form? Kanske du :)?
Mag Pie No, unfortunately I do not. My wife is an excellent teacher but that doesn't help when we are about 5,000 miles apart!
This is only part of the videotape.You can either use a RUclips downloader byGoogling:RUclips Downloader.It's free.Or you can buy the whole video from Play.com(DVD at £15.99,free dellivery),Amazon(in VHS format at £5.94,plus £2.80 mail charge,find it used by googling it furthermore.
I will try soon.
Groovy. Practice this form myself :)
I'm studying with one of Robert Smith's students now. It's been great so far, but I am not previously familiar with the Yang style or its long form, besides having watched people do it.
This is great - love the deep words - but I'm curious why I can't find a video anywhere of They Soon Tuan's style, which, my teacher tells me, was CMC's original way of doing Taichi, before he changed it to suit westerners. Or am I wrong?
+Peter Ozanne 'They Soon Tuan?' Never heard of it, been doing CMC a while though, how you react to my form?
Good for you. I hope you enjoy it. Best Wishes.
Yes, quite right. Will do in due course. Show my distortions that is.
Yang Short Form? No. The clue is in the opening comment; this is a design of Cheng Man Ching. He was from Taipei and is said to have taught Mrs Chiang Kai Shek. This is how he became well-known.
He moved to New York and lionised by many including Robert Smith.
I don't know how adept he really was, as opinions differ.
thanks is it worth buying,as im starting to learn it..does he go into it more and break it down...as life is hard by the yard but easy step by step..
I would like to have a video of the tai chi chuan colmplete short form and do no know what to do . Can somebody help me? Elise
+Elise Makale Please check the demo on our page :)
Thank you 😊
Astonishing how the form has changed and morphed into each persons distortions; the form is the teacher; this is actually Yin Style - no Yang in it whatsoever; must use small san-sau to understand combat applications; get rid of the dead hands; do it with your eyes half shut, be able to apply faijin to each and every moment of each move; timing and combat biomechanics will correct each move into reality; go into the void first; it is mind boxing remember; we become what we practice; so stop practicing mistakes??
Samuel Brentnall I was searching for your video demonstration on this but couldn't find it.
There is no such thing as Yin style.
Every form without fajin is. Yang is a family name.
oh man everyone is master here. Theres no problem with changing form. Two person cant make exact same movements at all. Thats the beauty. Forget about tai-chi competitions. Its about inner chi :)
To find out if your form is real rather than nonsense, just speed up each application to 'real' combat self protection speed and power with a determined attacker getting you instant knowledge of results. That requires no Mastery, just common sense, but it may lead to some form of Mastery rather than nonsense.
Balance sir 🙏
I know this form as 108 pozition, think that this form is long, not short. Thank you.
Wow❤😊
May God Bless
you.
Paul,
Do you have a demo on the complete long form?
Hein
Hermoso.
relex your foot fingers,,do not stretch them up,if you pull the balls of the feet back you see the bone fingers getting str8,we supose to work our joint like robbot,,robot have same human joints,our joints have one direction to twist not a lot of direction,if robot twist the joint it break up,but human joint does not break,we twist and twist until it get jammed(when get old)thats why old people when they fall they broke hip naturaly and elbow maybe shaulder and hand palm,thats beacause they have disorded joints thats why they break them up
A nice flow form done by Mr Paul Crompton, one of the former chinese martial arts pioneers in UK. His martial arts background is external japanese martial arts like Karate, and so his tai chi movement, at that time, was acceptable but very far from the true essence of Professor Cheng Man Ching Tai Chi.
This is the best demo on You Tube that I can find. I haven't been to class for many years and would really appreciate a back view so I can follow along. Paul, can you show us your backside.
Robin Champion Joseph cheung does it well too
nice one.
Amor ❤️👍😃👍👍✊✊✊✊🤗
my left ear just died....
yes, too boring.. form average....zzzzzzzzzzzzz
not bad, but , still, a little rigid at times, bobbing up and down in places., but not bad :)
Thank you for sharing.
+Геннадий Горелик Well observed, my form is better, agree?
+Tai Chi Cheshire I will not comment, whether your performance is better. How ever,, I will say, that, i notice small pauses between postures, in your performance. some movements are exaggerated. A nice flow over all.
Take my comments with a grain of salt! i am, by no means an expert Though i have been in Martial Arts most of my life, ( I love taiji ) I do not have any video of my self on my channel, but I am compiling a list of my favorites, that I find on youtube, under a playlist of ('kung fu') feel free to take a look.
Best wishes to you and your family.
Happy Holidays. :)
I'll check it out, thanks for the feedback. Happy Holidays to you too :)
Besides violating almost all of the "Five Principles," I would suggest not doing a demo on grass. Interesting example of a Tai Chi based exercise ...
+Jim O'Callahan Please check my form (on my channel) and let me know how much I violate the 5 principles and if so where, I always value constructive criticism
I think your interpretation of the 5 principles is one of those "in the eyes of the beholder" things. Get over it.
@@taichicheshire hi, I just happened to check a few replies to comments and found yours. It's commendable to post your own example.
As you've asked for some constructive feedback, I hope you don't mind if I make the following points (if you're not happy with it, for whatever reason, please let me know and I'll delete it).
1. My first impression was that you have obviously worked a long time on this form and have given it your own flavour. The sequence is faithfully reproduced in terms of the posture order up until the second cross hands - which would normally close the 37 form. Instead, you continue into a series of postures taken from the Yang Long Form. You've also added a couple of extra kicks within some of the movements. I imagine that's your own modification for practice purposes.
I'm sure I also add my flavour to it, although I keep to the traditional sequences that I learned with my teacher - which was the Yang 47 step CMC variation and Yang long forms. Since then I have practised the standard CMC 37 form and I've been trying to do the form on the right side for a different type of practice and working different parts of mind and body.
I frequently return to videos of Cheng Man Ch'ing and Dr. Chi Chiang Tao as my go-to reference in the absence of a bonafide CMC Tai Chi teacher.
ruclips.net/video/8zRKrPJE1d8/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/7AbuLI7Hgxg/видео.html
2. It appears to me that your rear leg often has the knee collapsing inwardly, this can cause knee damage over time, I would try and keep my knee joint aligned with hip and ankle.
3. Forward bow stances are overly extended (possibly causing knee collapsing in point No.2), occasionally the leading leg knee overextended past the foot - this is also putting extra strain on the knee joint of the forward leg. Look after your knees - you'll need them healthy, as you get older knee injuries can be really debilitating.
4. The rear foot is not evenly planted on the ground when you shift weight, the contact with the ground should feel energetically rooted, but not tense, this would then avoid the lifting upward of the outer edge of the rear foot (although insubstantial when going forward, it should still be rooting to the ground)
5. It looks to me that you have a hard style martial arts background, and this seems to be influencing how you are practising this form. For example, I hear sharp exhalation on the end of some movements, where there is also a pause in movement (not a wuji pause, more a kind of tense pause - at least it looks that way to me watching this video)
6. Facial expression seems tense and suggests mind is not relaxed. This tension is evident in the form itself also. I think it could be because you are aiming to make your form look more practical (external?) as a martial art, in the sense that you are imagining an opponent. Visualisation of an adversary can help alignment of posture, but I think we should still be relaxing (song) and not actually projecting force into the limbs. The energy focus would be best applied internally as much as possible.
I make these observations based on corrections that I received myself over many years with my own teacher, John Kells in London, from the late 80s through most of the 90s. I hope you find them helpful in your practise too.
A 7 min continuous form is not exactly short...
Read Tai Chi Training in China, so many subjective views.
还要多练，並请权威人士指正一下
🤘😠🤘
Fluid but lacks power.
IT'S A PITY THAT TAI CHI MASTERS HAVE BEEN BEEING BEATEN UP BY MMA PRACTITIONERS. THIS IS A REMINDER TO NOT ONLY FOCUS ON FIGHTING OTHER TAI CHI STUDENTS BUT TO MOVE OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE AND TAKE ON THE WHOLE MARTIAL ARTS WORLD
“Renown” (sic) by whom? Is this supposed to be Ch’eng Man-ch’ing’s Yang Short Form? If so, what happened to “Separate Weight” and “Beautiful Lady’s Hand”? Oh well, I guess 3 out of 5 Principles ain’t bad-except that in this style, it is! Sorry, I don’t by any means pretend to be an expert, but if you’’re going to imply that you are one by posting your demonstration video on RUclips, you should at least get the basics right. There’s already enough bad Taiji on the Internet.
also "elbows heavy, wrists light".... he's not relaxing into the ground either.
I love armchair experts and critics in all fields, those who can do, those who can't write!
Get a life fellow Tai chi people. There's always someone who knows better. Don't forget opinions are like arses everyone has got one. Life is to complex at this time of death and lockdown let's praise people for bothering to load videos and if we think we know better let's just quitely go our own way in our own practises whatever they may be😊
You freeze the sequence during your spin. Because you lost your balance and messed up the take. You fixed it then by doing a close up insert/pickup, and then continued the form. You should have filmed a retake from the top and done the whole form in one piece. Bad practice. No perseverance.