Sheep and Goat Fence: No High Tensile
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- Опубликовано: 30 ноя 2021
- Sheep and Goat Fence: No High Tensile. In this video, Tim talks about various farm fencing and specifically about why you should not use high tensile fencing for your small farm, hobby farm, or homestead. High tensile fencing may seem to be a more economical and easy manner to fence in your sheep and goats, however, in the end it simply does not provide an adequate fencing option!
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So this is easily remedied. You put them in a pen with some high tensile inside of it and train them to it. You can also run a poly braid in place of one wires to give it some visibility. A lot of people run high tensile with goats and sheep without any problem.
Is this what you do?
@@LinessaFarms They have to be trained if they've never been around electric fencing. We don't have any trouble with our sheep using electrified high tensile. In fact, I've never had a sheep go through it. Strong energizer and tight fencing helps. We only run 4 strands. It's all a psychological barrier.
We did get the Woven wire Red Barn Sheep and Goat fencing and so Glad we did..... Thanks For the video.
We are glad you did too!
Thanks for another good video.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to leave us a nice comment. 😁
This video reminded me of playing tag with my cousins at dusk...barefooted of course, in the horse pasture (dumb), I totally ran smackdab full force into the electric fence....didn't see it at all, and somehow forgot it was there (dumb again)...did NOT blow through it...got shocked and thrown back onto my butt.
😂
Great points.
Thank you!
If you have HT on a visible fence, it’s a different story. Many people have an existing physical barrier, such as a barbed wire fence, split rail, corral, etc that is a visual barrier to prevent them from running full speed. HT in the gaps or offset a little from the barbed wire will prevent the escape. At least for dogs and sheep. If water can get through the fence, a goat will get through the fence.
Agreed. The visible fence in conjunction with HT is the way to go. Thanks for taking the time to leave a message, it is appreciated. 👍🏻
Tnks Tim nice one
Thanks, Jean! We appreciate your support. Best wishes to you and your family this Christmas Season.
High tensile is a psychological barrier. Definitely not a physical barrier. Prolly should have let those new lambs into a reinforced pen for awhile with a hot wire in it to let them get used to a hot wire. People keep sheep and goats successfully in high tensile if they are trained to it. The ones that get out just sell them. Love the channel man!
Thanks for watching the videos and thanks for taking the time to leave a message. I definitely messed up with those lambs I knew better and just brain gapped it. We have zero problems with our sheep and in all honesty we only have problems with a handful of goats. We’ve had the HT fencing for about 10 years now and it’s been pretty good to us. I just hate that when push comes to shove, it just can’t keep animals in. It seems like if something happens and they get out once… you might as well sell them. Glad you like the channel and Happy Holidays!
@@LinessaFarms I agree. If they want out a shock won’t keep some in. At the end of the day there’s not a fence you can trust more than sheep and goat fence with maybe a hot wire on top and one low maybe. Anyways thanks for taking time to share your experience and farm knowledge. Hope you guys don’t get too cold up there!
I buy the fence that has the virtical wire around the horizontal wire , that way if goats stand on it the horizontal wire cant be pushed down . If the horizontal wire is wrapped around the vertical wire it will slide down . After a few years I had to replace some fences .
We run 80 goats behind two strand polywire temporary fencing strip grazing stockpiled fescue. Perimeter is 5 strand HT. They were very easy to train.
Hello, Nick. Thanks for leaving a message. What kind of goats do you have? What do you power your fence with? What is your method for “training” the goats?
@@LinessaFarms Mostly Spanish with some Boer and Kiko influence in the younger generations. Gallagher M1800i. 8-10k voltage. We gradually increased stock density and reduced time between moves. We have been rotationally grazing cattle for 30 plus years and have learned a bit from that.
@@nickhill1216 nice. We are running a good speedrite charger with plenty of joules and volts but still seem to have trouble with the goats. Not all… but a few just don’t seem to care. Another disadvantage to our location here in Indiana is our pastures are usually surrounded by corn and bean fields. It would seem the goats would rather go to the fields than stay on the pasture. We have had good luck with premier fencing for our rotational grazing in summer. Our main dry lot is HT and 99% of our animals are no issue. I’m sure you can appreciate we have a wide following of various levels of experience and need to tailor our information to the masses. I appreciate you taking the time to send us a message and give us some more input. Hopefully this will help out some folks. We get a lot of messages where people just call us names and offer no advise. 🥴
We have a forum on Facebook where people ask questions, etc… if you’re not on there already, consider joining. We need all the experienced people on there that we can get. It’s on Facebook as Linessa Farms Tack Box. Thanks again.
@@LinessaFarms sell the ones that are problems. That's what I would do.
I agree to use field fence of some variety IN CONFINEMENT AREAS. With that being said energized fence (high tensile or even poly) is a game changer for grazing. Sheep do not test fences unless they are hungry. If they are hungry they need to be removed from the pastures either to another pasture or to a confinement lot. I have learned the hard way that sheep will DESTROY as pasture if left to their own devices and will pack the ground worse than even cattle. In Austrailia they are promoting confinement lots to protect pastures during drought conditions. Woven field fence or not... predators WILL find a way. Dogs will dig under and coyotes will go over. Livestock protection dogs are a must. You won't have problems until you do.
Hello, Alan! Thank you very much for watching our videos and thank you for taking the time to leave us a comment. You make a few valuable comments our viewers should consider. Our fencing area in the video is a dry lot/confinement area and not our pasture. We have a completely different set up and operate rotational grazing for our pastures. We also agree 100% that sheep work great with high tensile wire and we never have them test the wire. It would seem with our goats, they simply prefer to be where they aren’t supposed to be. Regardless, your points are correct.
We recently spoke to a farm in our region and tried to explain to them that sheep will work a pasture to the dirt if left to their own devices. This statement doesn’t even take into consideration how many problems come from letting sheep graze an area too long like worms, etc… here in Indiana, you either rotational graze or dry lot. There is no in between. Although we don’t normally mention them in our videos we have livestock guardian dogs. I feel our dogs have a harder job because of our high tensile fencing and have to be more aggressive than they might if we had our external fencing made from woven wire… this may be wishful thinking. In the end, when it comes to financial sense, you simply cannot afford to fence in 20 acres with woven wire. It’s just too darn cost prohibitive. There is so much I like about HT wire I didn’t cover and some other negatives we didn’t cover too. We are attempting to foster more conversation regarding topics by taking about subjects we sometimes avoid due to opinion or preference. People like you that take the time to leave a message about your experiences help us out and our viewers. Thanks!
Electric fencing is referred to as a "psychological barrier" meaning that animals have to be TRAINED to respect the barrier. Another option is a good perimeter fence around the pastures and then portable netting or polywire interior fences.
Agreed. Thanks for watching!
We have 400 hair ewes (across 5 farms) and we use as much 3-4 wire high tensile as I can. I use cyclops and speedrite chargers (I prefer the speedrites) and keep the perimeter's usually around 8K volts or more. We move the sheep every 1-3 days in the growing season with a single polywire. When buying groups of 30 head or less, we have a training area with about 10K volts that takes less than 15 minutes to train them for life, normally. However, we have brought in large groups that made the training impractical and they have always self trained on the single wire. They will inevitably graze into it and take 8k Volts across the forehead and that's enough. In my experience, sheep are far more likely to go under than over, so the wire has to be low enough that can't push it over their back without taking a charge in the head. I've trained groups as large as 250 to a single wire in 3 days by just getting the height correct and moving them daily.
All that said, if they are super wild and spooky, you'll have to find some way to contain them until they learn. I would put them in a secure barn lot with a wire or two around the perimieter, then pour feed UNDER the wire. It needs to be very hard to eat without getting shocked. I've not tried a lot of goats, but even 100% of the goats that I have trained this way would stay inside the single wire for grazing. I suspect if I had 400 goats, they wouldn't be nearly as polite....even with training. Lol
Thank you for taking the time to leave such a great response. It is much appreciated. We like our sheep a whole lot more with the high tensile than our goats for sure. I think you have a great system in place and keeping them on the move definitely helps keep them less prone to trying to escape. I’ve had great luck with my Speedrite chargers but have heard other people complain about them. 🤷🏼♂️
I think with most things, this is a learning process and learning what your animals need. We have added additional strands to our fencing and increased voltage to 10k volts with good response. I also agree that height placement is very important (as you mentioned). Again, thank you for taking the time to respond. It is appreciated.
We have found with our large flock of sheep that high voltage is needed. We have to have t post spacing similar to that of 5 Barb. Wire spacing needs to be 2 or 3 nubs on the metal posts. All 5 wires we have hot. We don't use it in corrals or pressured areas. Only costs about 60 cents to build without labor cost which really cheap fencing for large pastures.
Joshua, thanks for taking the time to leave us a message. We have really good luck with the high tensile for our sheep. Really, we have very few problems at all. The darn goats are another issue and dogs/coyotes. Cost, as you stated, is a huge issue. I think (maybe) if we had only sheep, I would consider running all HT fencing. As of right now, after about a decade of HT, I think I’m still happiest with sheep and goat woven wire. However, I can’t argue with you on the ease of installation and price. It’s a tough one.
Thanks for watching the videos and thanks for your comment.
I ran a 8 line electric fence and it didn't even slow my goats down. My goats jump forward when shocked. Only no climb horse fence for goats. Buy once cry once. Great video!
Jeff, I will have to remember the “buy once cry once” line. 😂
We have so many people who have spent so much money on HT fencing and it simply does not work. Coyotes just blow right through it. As you said, the goats simply don’t respect it either.
Agree it was more expensive But sturdy strong and no worries. They are IN. We were able to fence in two paddocks with it thanks to our canceled trip for vacation due to Covid in 2020. We just used that money on our fencing.
@@LinessaFarms what if I use HT perimeter and use premier one netting to rotate the sheep. Or let the sheep get shocked first before using polybraid. Do you think this will work?
@@itisfinished7377 hello, it is nice to hear from you again. We have had really good luck with HT fencing and our sheep. They tend not to mess with it once they get shocked. Likewise, we have had great luck with premier’s netting so I think you’re on the right track!
A friend of mine needed a place to put about 8 of his sheep on my farm. I had a fenced holding area however he wanted to put them out in the pasture. Well I only had electric high tensel that my sheep 🐑 and goats 🐐 were trained to it. So I explained the health reasons and the possibility of his animals will take off and they did. All but one took off and it took us about 2 weeks to catch all of them. Neighbors and animal control came to my place letting me know that they have seen the sheep 🐑.Animal control said that if they catch them before me that I wouldn't get them back. Now as he said in the video, if my wires are not hot, it takes less than 10 minutes before they start to get out, especially lambs.
Thank you for taking the time to share this story with others. We simply aren’t fans of high tensile for this reason and we caught a lot of grief for saying so. With most producers, at one point or another, you will have new animals on your farm. Sometimes you aren’t going to have time to “train” them to the high tensile fence. Likewise, during breeding or if the animals get spooked badly, the high tensile fence is not a physical barrier capable of keeping a sheep or goat in. Likewise, it will deter but will not keep a stray dog out.
@@LinessaFarms : exactly. The directions even say 💭, not to be used as a physical barrier.
what was your wire spacing and how much tension was on the high tensile? supposed to have 12.5 gage wire at 200 psi, i see you have the cheap yellow insulators on those tposts and no supports on the corners...i would think high tensile needs a bit beefier setup than that? They do make some visible high tensile wire you can buy out there indifferent colors.
Hi Andrew, you seem to know a lot about high tensile fencing. What is your experience with it? I have to ask because normally if we get feedback such as this, it is a contractor or someone who takes our opinion about high tensile wire personally.
We have H posts made of wood posts at every corner to include any angle changes. All of our perimeter fencing consists of 12.5 g high tensile wire tensioned appropriately using tension indicator springs. Our perimeter fencing is all wood posts with some t posts in between for added support. The fencing you are referring to is a pen separation fence, although it still has wooden H posts on both ends. We are not aware of a way to pull the appropriate amount of tension without wooden H posts. We have seen some interlocking gadgets for T posts/corners but I just don’t know if they would actually work.
We love everything about our high tensile fencing to include the way it looks. We just want people to know, it simply isn’t as good of a barrier as woven wire. I think if we were to do it all over again, we would still use HT for our inside pens but pull sheep and goat woven wire for the perimeter fencing. We get a lot of storms here and power outages, we have a lot of predators, and we get a lot of spooked littles like lambs and kids. Our adults can’t run through the HT like the littles can, as they would just bounce back off of it. We are also aware we can get the horse wire for visibility and we can also run the wires very close together. My problem with that is, if I’m dropping enough money to run 10 wire (we currently run 6) high vis, I might as well just put up the damn woven wire and not have to worry about power outages. 🤷🏼♂️
In the end, we have no dog in the race. We just want to give folks something to think about.
@@LinessaFarms I was just wondering because the example in the video seemed like it wasn't high tensile. I see lots of people pulling the cheap wire by hand saying they run high tensile and it doesn't work but when you look closer it is just the cheapest possible wire and insulator/tpost combo you can imagine. I just thought i'd ask what you tried to make sure it was in fact legit HT setup. We have a clearcut with probably close to 300 stumps per acre and hope to HT the whole 100 acres with HT and also run 20 acres of goat pasture with HT but not if it lets them out or predators in so easily...our problem is we have very steep/stumpy hills so running the Staytuff which works great in our 1.5 acres for the goats with a hotwire on top so far i don't see us being able to continue that fencing on the steep hills. It would be easy for us to walk in posts and gas post driver but a tractor on these hills can be an adventure then throw in the stumps to mess up the balance lol. anyways, great share i really learned from your video especially the visual aspect i think i read somewhere that putting a visible wire at eye height for the size animals you plan to have is the best way to slow them down. But like you said running 50 wires vs just a woven wire fence seems like a no brainer lol. We have Gallagher Solar Fencers that puts out 2 joules on the 2 battery one and 1 joule on the 1 battery one. So if power goes out we still have zapping going on and it's still about 9k volts. the 2Joule is no joke compared to the1 Joule. Anyways, thanks for the informational videos keep on keeping on!
Do you have problems with the HT wanting to pull your posts out of the ground in low spots? We have always struggled with this. I have 8ft posts buried 4 feet deep but it seems like with all the tension on the wires, it wants to pull the posts out of the ground in some cases. We are mostly level ground. I think in a case like yours, you have no other options. Woven wire simply does not work well with obstacles or hills. We run our temp rotational grazing fencing on a 6 joule speed right charged and as you stated, the difference in joules makes all the difference in the world when it comes to stopping power. We run our charger on a deep cycle battery that gets swapped out once a week. I am currently in the process of setting up a solar panel which will charge the deep cycle battery. This will be a kind of hybrid system instead of the all in one solar chargers most people use. I will make a post about this soon (assuming it works). Thanks for watching the videos and thanks for taking the time to leave us some feedback. It always helps.
@@LinessaFarms I am still planning on the high tensile setup, kinda scared to move forward lol. I watched someone run the wire where it wants to be in the low spots then just add some posts on each side of the low spot and add more wire that hooks into the lowest wire to get that wire to ground height you want. So you have the wire going so many feet higher than the low spot but you add X amount of wires in a V shape that tie to the bottom wire and hook to the additional posts. I also read that you should worry about the posts being perpendicular to the terrain vs level
I hate to admit this but I lost a $1000 dexter calf this same way we brought her home and I let her out and she took off right through the fence I never got her back we looked for days I even paid a guy with a thermal drone and still lost her. And we never made this mistake again and I was sick about it for atleast a month. Great video thanks
Sorry to hear about this, Shaun. Thanks for taking the time to leave us a response and thanks for watching our videos. 👍🏻
@@LinessaFarms no problem I've been watching alot of your videos lately just doing some research, I have 2 goats that are pets, I mainly raise registered red Dexter cattle but the cost for feeding cows has gone threw the roof, and my property could sustain more head of goats then cows without buying alot of extra hay.
Thanks for all the excellent info you give.
We have two Nigerian dwarf goats, that have decided that the shock is worth it, and they just go back and forth at will. We keep thinking it broke, and nope still shocks (and is getting around 8-9kV at the spot they always go through), they just don't care. Luckily the fence is into our yard, so they just sit around the apple tree, and they stay within eyesight of the other, less brave goats. We have yellow placards along the wire that seem to work well enough at letting the sheep know it's there. Although we don't keep sheep over there much, currently we just have two ewe lambs that we don't want getting knocked up in that pasture. Luckily only around 1/20th (if that) of that fence line is HT, the rest is woven.
Also, on the square woven wire, we have a Nubian goat who I've had to pull or cut out of that stuff several times. It's what was put in by the previous owner, and we don't have the >$10k it would cost to replace it. Been planning on putting in a 6"-standoff scare wire or two to hopefully get her to stop going up to it (and to stop them rubbing on the posts).
Currently saving for a bunch of the poly-woven stuff, with fiberglass poles so we can do paddocks, and have better, mobile fencing.
Hello! Yes. I’m glad so many people are leaving messages and so many people are watching this video. I hate for people to spend all that money on fencing that doesn’t work!
Woven wire sheep fencing or board fences is the way to go with small confined areas. It needs an offset hot wire to keep sheep from rubbing on it. Permanent HT is the best affordable alternative for larger pastures. I use 8 strands with alternating positive and grounded wires. Granted, it may not keep determined rams away from the ewes or newly weaned lambs from returning to their mothers. The sheep need to be trained to electric fences. If visability is a problem, tie some flags on the wire. BTW, using steel T-posts on an electric fence is something that only someone who uses Tractor Supply as their consultant would do. There is a huge potential for a dead short. Those yellow insulators look like junk that is sold to people that will only have livestock for a couple years or so before quit.
Our perimeter fence is built with wooden posts similar to the method you describe. The yellow insulators you describe are on a temp fence separating paddocks on a dry lot. You might be surprised to know they lock in the wire and actually work well. I don’t believe tractor supply invented them as they have been used for many years following the phase out of the old style porcelain insulators. There is a company called lockjaw that makes newer insulators such as these that work really well for more permanent operations. Wooden H posts for corners and metal t post for line posts are very common in the Midwest and southwest, although less common in your area in the East. You have a lot of valuable information to share; it is a shame you do it in such a negative way. While I’ve never met you personally, your parents (specifically your father, Andy) have always been very generous and welcoming to both new and experienced sheep farmers. Why not continue this legacy and focus on being helpful instead of trying to insult or demean? Many of our viewers are brand new to raising sheep and goats; some have very small budgets. We do our best to welcome them to the community, not shut them down. Coming from a family that works so hard to include and welcome, you of all people should understand this. I will do my best to continue responding to you but I have to say, it’s becoming difficult.
@@LinessaFarms Tim, the main point you are making in this video is not to use hi-tensile fence on sheep and goats. I disagree, it has it's place. You are basing this on your experience. I know nothing about goats but have been around hi-tensile fence with sheep all my life. First of all, hi-tensile is a bad choice in high pressure areas. Hi-tensile 2"x 4" sheep fencing would be a better choice. In areas where the sheep are going to be crowded like corrals and handling facilities, board fences and solid sided panels are best. 2"x 4" fencing is great but is cost prohibitive for fencing large pastures. Hi-tensile electric is the best option. I would recommend 8 strands of alternating positive and ground wires. 4" spacing for the bottom 6 wires and a little wider for the top 2 wires. It is better to space the wires closer together because the hi-tensile electric fence doesn't need to be any higher than 40" at most. The situation where your animals ran through the fence was because you had the wrong fence for the situation. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a permanent 5 strand fence like the one in the video around a 50 acre pasture. If you find my comment offensive it is because the truth hurts. Hopefully my response might save a reader from making the same error you did. BTW, this is Andy using Jesse's account.
@@jessealexander4329 thanks “Andy”.
Lol goats and spooked horses. Always that one time... I love hot wire too. It's easy and mobile.
Seems like cows and sheep aren’t interested in getting out unless you leave the gate open. We like the hot wire as well. Darn goats just like to mess with it.
if you want to see how good your fence is just add some goats to your pasture if there is a way for them to get or get killed i found they are the ones to do it for you,, the few sheep i have raised in the past just stay where you put them unless they get hungry, then no fence will hold them either
This is very true. Goats want to be wherever you don’t want them. 🥴
I love the content , and I watch the videos with Bluetooth headphones. And I thought I'd mention that the sound only plays through the right side speaker .
And take note that there is not a blessed living thing growing on the ground in that small paddock and by his own admission they headed into the "CROPS"
Thanks for watching Jeff.
Yep! 😂 Goats are the worst 🤣
The things we like most about goats vs. sheep is their personalities. The things we like least about goats vs. sheep is their personalities. Just depends on the day. 🥴