Just one thing about switching to electric furnaces before you get modules set up: If you have set up solar or nuclear before you have your modules set up, it would actually be better to switch over to electric, that can happen if you have a coal and oil shortage on a map (like the one I started recently) and need to do something about power. Every single scrap of coal I am currently getting is going to plastic at the moment.
DaemosDaen In some situations yes. Personally I have never had a situation like that, because I'd rather just go get more coal than upgrade all my smelters to electric. Each to their own though
I thought that too. Had my wife explore a 2kx2k area around the base... no coal and the smallest amount of oil (stupid railworld settings) at that moment we got solid fuel and batteries going and decided "alright, solar then" we did find some more coal about 3k tiles east of our starting factory, which it's self was spreading eastward. It was part of a deposit though, shared with iron. It was only about 4 million, so not really enough to add steam back into the mix. My wife finds solar boring btw.
I recognize myself in that mindset of burning as little coal as possible. But I'd rather have productivity2 before nuclear and then upgrade the smelting. It is not only the investment in the electric furnaces (and modules) themselves, but also the solars and batteries to feed them. I feel iron and copper are the bottleneck much more often than coal. But of course there might be cases like you say.
Content like this is super helpful, and not only for noobs -- when I don't feel like building something from scratch I often realize I have no idea what a "standard" build even looks like... also if you really look at some of these standard builds they are full of clever, non-obvious tricks (they might seem obvious after you've built it over and over, but, for example: nobody really thought of those kissing coal/ore splitters for years -- people used to do all sorts of way more awkward stuff to achieve the same result until (IIRC?) JGGames happened to think of it one day in a random yt video, at which point everyone sort of slapped their head in unison and said "oh, why didn't I think of that?" after which it quickly became "the standard." On a more practical note: if you side-loaded "just" one more ore belt onto both sides of that steel build, I imagine it would fully compress the output belt. It's not exactly small, but do-able, and, you could upgrade that build to a fully compressed red belt with steel furnaces, just like the plate build (ie one swipe of the upgrade planner could get you both smelters upgraded).
Glad it is found to be helpful. :) Yeah there are lot of clever tricks in these for sure. The one you mentioned by JGGames is the main one I always think of, and I was going to mention it in the video but couldn't remember his name so didn't want to get it completely wrong. The ways we used to do things before he showed that splitter trick was super weird and awkward. Yes, if you expanded the steel build much longer and added another side loading ore belt you could get a full belt out, but it would be a super super long build.
If space isn't an issue, and a full belt is required if could be done. On the other hand, 2 arrays side by side would output more and have a wider but shorter footprint. And it wouldmt require special belting to make it work
It... never occurred to me to input ore into a steel build. I've been splitting off iron plates from my bus to make steel. Well, I certainly feel silly!
Awesome information! I think mentally I recognize that steel requires a lot but wow that beacon build for steel.... I have never built in a line like that so it kinda blew my mind. Keep up the great work. You rock!
Note that that steel build is that big because it's 12 beacon, which is slightly more UPS efficient because it uses fewer furnaces. 8 beacon is a bit less UPS efficient, but is a lot smaller.
You can make the top part of the steel build much of elegant if you want to. First, we'll make it take in only one belt, to be consistent with the other smelting columns. Then, do your normal 2 splitter thing, but right before splitting off the coal line, do another split, into another splitter, and use undergroups to get the coal onto 1 side. This lets the steel build connect directly to your other builds.
9:18 Next time you're doing an example, and you need trains to show it off... Duplicating Train Wagon will have an endless supply of whatever material you put into it. Void Train Wagon will delete any car you put into it. So for your Sending Supporters to Space smelter, you could use duplicating wagons at the ore delivery station, and void wagons at the plate pickup station.
Indeed. I thought of that but didn't think it would really matter. For a bot build like that where I know the production number, seeing it work isn't as important as seeing a belt build work.
Sorry I meant 9:24 "It would require like all kinds of trains and stuff to run" Ok first, There are only 2 train lines. Second, all you need to get it going is about 20 - 50 bots to run not "A Bunch Of Stuff," #ABS
Damn... up till now, I used the second layout for furnaces, the one you said is outdated and inefficient. I think at this point, i'll switch to your prefered layout because I noticed, even if I build the version where you can upgrade your furnaces to max, I always remove everything because I need the space. Thanks man, keep up the work.
Very well done, sir. Even though you do not go into the details of each build, you are almost showing the progression through the game from early, to middle, and finally, late game. One thing to point out is that some of the builds require different types of power poles to function. The steel build with stone furnaces is not feasible with small electric poles because they do not have a large enough supply area. So, you need to have steel to make medium electric poles in order to build one of the designs. Just something that people using your blueprints will need to keep in mind. At least the electric furnace within a 12-beacon build is shorter than the science build you did for the Tightening the Belt series. That was just nuts!
I also typically use a build that extends iron lines and leeches off of them for steel. A filter inserter to let the coal through and then another to let the steel through. Steel ends up on the outside.
That's definitely an option. I used to pull iron out and smelt it to steel but then started preferring to just take ore and turn it into steel in the same build.
@@Xterminator - It basically leeches off your iron production to make steel, which I sort of like since you need so little steel in the beginning and mid-game.
From what I read somewhere, electric furnaces with maxed Speed 3 and no beacons has the same 24 ratio to blue belt. Felt that was a small detail missing from the debate of whether to use that expandable build The single biggest argument against, IMO, is the fact that the build would still be feeding coal to furnaces with no need for it.
Interesting, I haven't confirmed that, but it sounds plausible. Personally I would never recommend that, and that's part of why I didn't mention it. Mostly because if you have modules, it would be far far better to put productivity in the furnaces and then speed beacon it. Just putting speed modules into the furnaces is basically just a huge waste of power in order to save space.
I always like leaving room for electric with the inverters similar to build 2 but then using double separate coal lines which later swap to beacon space
Nice overview of the game progress, from early to end game. The bot-train design is awesome. I think if you cut your steel setup in 2 strings and put them side by side, it's shortened to the half, and you only need 3/4 of the beacons (one common line). IMHO it's better than this huge line ;-)
TIL Electric Furnaces are not faster than Steel Furnaces (Beacons notwithstanding). My usual smeltery setup uses 5 lines of belts per 2 lines of furnaces compared to your 3-to-2, but I've always been wary of ore + coal on the same belt due to not knowing the optimal ratios which I now have a better understanding of thanks to you ^_^
Yeah, I also didn't realize electric furnaces were the same speed for a really long time. Glad it helped give you a better understanding of the ratios too. :)
Electric and stone furnaces consume the same amount of coal if you're running off of steam power. Steel furnaces use half the amount of coal. I only use electric if coal is a huge pain or I'm no longer running on steam or I want to use modules.
That makes alot of sense actually. I never thought to actually look at the energy consumption of the 2 to see which is more efficient. Now I don't feel like such a scrub for keeping steel furnaces as long as I do lol.
I made a rather similar beacond iron/copper build. But my rations are not as good, so I'm shifting it every now and then with splitters instead of having exact change points.
Really cool, thanks for the blueprints. I'm one of those filthy players who uses Factorissimo so I will have some fun modding them to work inside factories. What can I say... I _hate_ dealing with power poles. Cheers, - Eddy
Why aren't these called Fact-orials.
Dan Beucler
What the Fact !
Just one thing about switching to electric furnaces before you get modules set up: If you have set up solar or nuclear before you have your modules set up, it would actually be better to switch over to electric, that can happen if you have a coal and oil shortage on a map (like the one I started recently) and need to do something about power. Every single scrap of coal I am currently getting is going to plastic at the moment.
DaemosDaen In some situations yes. Personally I have never had a situation like that, because I'd rather just go get more coal than upgrade all my smelters to electric. Each to their own though
I thought that too. Had my wife explore a 2kx2k area around the base... no coal and the smallest amount of oil (stupid railworld settings) at that moment we got solid fuel and batteries going and decided "alright, solar then" we did find some more coal about 3k tiles east of our starting factory, which it's self was spreading eastward. It was part of a deposit though, shared with iron. It was only about 4 million, so not really enough to add steam back into the mix. My wife finds solar boring btw.
I recognize myself in that mindset of burning as little coal as possible. But I'd rather have productivity2 before nuclear and then upgrade the smelting. It is not only the investment in the electric furnaces (and modules) themselves, but also the solars and batteries to feed them. I feel iron and copper are the bottleneck much more often than coal.
But of course there might be cases like you say.
Content like this is super helpful, and not only for noobs -- when I don't feel like building something from scratch I often realize I have no idea what a "standard" build even looks like... also if you really look at some of these standard builds they are full of clever, non-obvious tricks (they might seem obvious after you've built it over and over, but, for example: nobody really thought of those kissing coal/ore splitters for years -- people used to do all sorts of way more awkward stuff to achieve the same result until (IIRC?) JGGames happened to think of it one day in a random yt video, at which point everyone sort of slapped their head in unison and said "oh, why didn't I think of that?" after which it quickly became "the standard."
On a more practical note: if you side-loaded "just" one more ore belt onto both sides of that steel build, I imagine it would fully compress the output belt. It's not exactly small, but do-able, and, you could upgrade that build to a fully compressed red belt with steel furnaces, just like the plate build (ie one swipe of the upgrade planner could get you both smelters upgraded).
Glad it is found to be helpful. :)
Yeah there are lot of clever tricks in these for sure. The one you mentioned by JGGames is the main one I always think of, and I was going to mention it in the video but couldn't remember his name so didn't want to get it completely wrong. The ways we used to do things before he showed that splitter trick was super weird and awkward.
Yes, if you expanded the steel build much longer and added another side loading ore belt you could get a full belt out, but it would be a super super long build.
If space isn't an issue, and a full belt is required if could be done. On the other hand, 2 arrays side by side would output more and have a wider but shorter footprint. And it wouldmt require special belting to make it work
Thank you! I've been looking for an updated video from the factorio community and the bitter gods has answered my prayers!
Haha, you're welcome! Praise the biter gods. :D
It... never occurred to me to input ore into a steel build. I've been splitting off iron plates from my bus to make steel.
Well, I certainly feel silly!
Awesome information! I think mentally I recognize that steel requires a lot but wow that beacon build for steel.... I have never built in a line like that so it kinda blew my mind. Keep up the great work. You rock!
Note that that steel build is that big because it's 12 beacon, which is slightly more UPS efficient because it uses fewer furnaces. 8 beacon is a bit less UPS efficient, but is a lot smaller.
You can make the top part of the steel build much of elegant if you want to. First, we'll make it take in only one belt, to be consistent with the other smelting columns. Then, do your normal 2 splitter thing, but right before splitting off the coal line, do another split, into another splitter, and use undergroups to get the coal onto 1 side. This lets the steel build connect directly to your other builds.
Ritoban Roy Chowdhury Good improvement ideas.
9:18 Next time you're doing an example, and you need trains to show it off... Duplicating Train Wagon will have an endless supply of whatever material you put into it. Void Train Wagon will delete any car you put into it.
So for your Sending Supporters to Space smelter, you could use duplicating wagons at the ore delivery station, and void wagons at the plate pickup station.
Indeed. I thought of that but didn't think it would really matter. For a bot build like that where I know the production number, seeing it work isn't as important as seeing a belt build work.
LOL 9:20 "It needs like, all kinds of trains to run" xD only 1/2 and itz an ez setup
Sorry I meant 9:24 "It would require like all kinds of trains and stuff to run" Ok first, There are only 2 train lines. Second, all you need to get it going is about 20 - 50 bots to run not "A Bunch Of Stuff," #ABS
Damn... up till now, I used the second layout for furnaces, the one you said is outdated and inefficient. I think at this point, i'll switch to your prefered layout because I noticed, even if I build the version where you can upgrade your furnaces to max, I always remove everything because I need the space. Thanks man, keep up the work.
Very well done, sir. Even though you do not go into the details of each build, you are almost showing the progression through the game from early, to middle, and finally, late game.
One thing to point out is that some of the builds require different types of power poles to function. The steel build with stone furnaces is not feasible with small electric poles because they do not have a large enough supply area. So, you need to have steel to make medium electric poles in order to build one of the designs. Just something that people using your blueprints will need to keep in mind.
At least the electric furnace within a 12-beacon build is shorter than the science build you did for the Tightening the Belt series. That was just nuts!
I also typically use a build that extends iron lines and leeches off of them for steel. A filter inserter to let the coal through and then another to let the steel through. Steel ends up on the outside.
That's definitely an option. I used to pull iron out and smelt it to steel but then started preferring to just take ore and turn it into steel in the same build.
@@Xterminator - It basically leeches off your iron production to make steel, which I sort of like since you need so little steel in the beginning and mid-game.
From what I read somewhere, electric furnaces with maxed Speed 3 and no beacons has the same 24 ratio to blue belt. Felt that was a small detail missing from the debate of whether to use that expandable build
The single biggest argument against, IMO, is the fact that the build would still be feeding coal to furnaces with no need for it.
Interesting, I haven't confirmed that, but it sounds plausible. Personally I would never recommend that, and that's part of why I didn't mention it. Mostly because if you have modules, it would be far far better to put productivity in the furnaces and then speed beacon it. Just putting speed modules into the furnaces is basically just a huge waste of power in order to save space.
@@Xterminator Wait, do speed modules in beacons not increase the power consumption of the machines that it affects?
These episodes are amazing thanks Xterminator
silverpeter My pleasure. Hope it helped!
I always like leaving room for electric with the inverters similar to build 2 but then using double separate coal lines which later swap to beacon space
The only time I use electric furnaces are with beacons or with on-site smelting, which I haven't done in ages anyway
I'm new with these factory concept and i get used to it now
Hey Xterminator. Great Channel BTW. What are the boxes that are feeding the ores?
@Xterminator
Nice overview of the game progress, from early to end game. The bot-train design is awesome.
I think if you cut your steel setup in 2 strings and put them side by side, it's shortened to the half, and you only need 3/4 of the beacons (one common line). IMHO it's better than this huge line ;-)
Ah good point. I hadn't really considered that, but it would make it save beacons and not be a massive line. haha
TIL Electric Furnaces are not faster than Steel Furnaces (Beacons notwithstanding). My usual smeltery setup uses 5 lines of belts per 2 lines of furnaces compared to your 3-to-2, but I've always been wary of ore + coal on the same belt due to not knowing the optimal ratios which I now have a better understanding of thanks to you ^_^
Yeah, I also didn't realize electric furnaces were the same speed for a really long time. Glad it helped give you a better understanding of the ratios too. :)
Electric and stone furnaces consume the same amount of coal if you're running off of steam power. Steel furnaces use half the amount of coal. I only use electric if coal is a huge pain or I'm no longer running on steam or I want to use modules.
That makes alot of sense actually. I never thought to actually look at the energy consumption of the 2 to see which is more efficient. Now I don't feel like such a scrub for keeping steel furnaces as long as I do lol.
Theese builds are exactally what I have been looking for. Thankyou for making this video and thankyou for shareing the BPs.
1qazxsw23edcish Happy to help. glad the builds will be of use to you. :)
You mentioned a 4k science series. What series was that?
Sending Supporters to Space. One of my favorites. :)
Is it better to have bots place items in chests and then onto belts or just use a bot build for late game?
If you are going to use bots, it's probably better to just use a bot build.
I was waiting for this, thanks
OK, those things you have that are filling the belts with coal and iron... how do you do that in creative/sanbox?
its a mod called creative or creative mode, something like that.
I made a rather similar beacond iron/copper build. But my rations are not as good, so I'm shifting it every now and then with splitters instead of having exact change points.
newbie here: my crafting menu doesnt look like yours, are you using a mod? those big buttons arent on mine.
Loves theses videos, it gives me inspiration!
Very glad to hear that!
Is this tutorial still up to date?
thank you so much, this video is so helpful!!! I subscribed 😄
Thank you for subbing! I'm glad the video helped you out too and you enjoy the rest of the content. :)
Where is the ore coming from? How does it get onto the belt?
I was using a creative mode mod that has an item that let's you just spawn Ore on to the belt.
@@Xterminator oh ok. Thanks. I'm still trying to figure out how to use the auto chests. How can I get robots to move things to a chest from a belt?
@@zerorootx You need to have the best contents put into a logistics chest. Bots can't pick up directly from belts.
(one whistle stop furnace surrounded by beacons with bob's level 8 speed modules)
Thanks for these :) so clean looking.
My pleasure. And thank you!
Just the video I needed, just at the the time I needed it. Me and my new copper plate outpost thank you. ;-)
Glad it could be helpful! :)
anybody has the blueprints for the electric smelting? the link doesnt work anymore..
what mod do you use for the infinite item spawning?
I used Creative Mode. But there is a better version out now called Infinity Mode
Please do a updated version..
Awesome shit you have here, man!! Loved it!
this 'game' is art
Why furnace does not split it combines...
Nice! Thank you Xterminator.
You're welcome!
Nice video!
Thanks, will put these stolen BP's to use
Really cool, thanks for the blueprints.
I'm one of those filthy players who uses Factorissimo so I will have some fun modding them to work inside factories.
What can I say... I _hate_ dealing with power poles.
Cheers,
- Eddy
I wanted this video so hard Ouf
Yay smelting!!!!
Good tutorial! If I may, crossfade off your intro for extra professionalism points!
Oh I miss tutorial series and all others where you were showing clever builds.
Man I hate beacons. So immersion breaking
Yeet