Very interesting! It's good to know that this change is here to stay then. I liked the fact that this mechanic added some depth to weapon choices, but I guess for new players it's mostly just a nuisance (kinda like the bag cooldown, which some players choose to remove using ""mods""...).
@@Marcmb from a speedrunner perspective it’s a great little time saver but even I thought it was unintentional as it looks wonky as hell spamming f near some deposit boxes now
@@IEATZOMB13Z I thought for sure it was unintentional yup. I like the fact that it will be a flat timesave on some heists, but I also really liked the co-op aspect of splitting interactions between 2 players, to completely skip this interaction delay. Either way it's a very minor thing, so I'll agree 100% on this decision by the devs :D
I noticed in big bank, the civies's view in the staff area have changed. Like before when they see you the ? mark is at the same height as where their heads are but now the ? mark is a bit higher than their head, feels like as if they are standing. This lead to some moment where they could potentially see you quite far than usual while hacking the computer
Someone else mentioned this same issue yup! It's very unfortunate, because civilian detection being so misleading can make many things harder, because often you don't even see the civ who is detecting you. This one, and the civs freezing on the spot, are definitely bugs. So hopefully the devs will look into it for U240.6...
As someone who keeps using builds that bring a ECM jammer in loud (with crits), never knew about ECM feedback being affected by the update so knowing that now will throw a wrench into my plans. As for the current behavior of tied-up civilians, it has gotten me just a little frustrated. Either way, thank you for the highly-informative video.
The civs are very frustrating yup. When I need to move a civilian 5 times just because he keeps freezing at the wrong spot, and you only get 1 chance per time you interact with him... As for the ECM in loud, don't worry too much, because the range of the _alert_ has been nerfed, but the stun part of it seems to work as usual (with the usual range), so that should be fine :)
between 240.3 and one of the later patches, the interaction cooldown upon masking up was also removed, but it seems to be re-patched so you now have to wait until you start drawing your weapon
Yes! Back in U240.2 mask cancelling was possible, although I'm not sure which was the first update that introduced it. Sadly U240.3 patched mask cancelling, and I don't think it's ever coming back... :(
They want to ruin this game even more than they already have so they can try to push people to payday 3. Theyll keep making these undocumented changes in the hopes that people wont notice and eventually feel forced to 3. They are DESPERATE
If it makes ya feel better all of payday 2's previous version can be downloaded from the steam depots. Apparently you can play online on older versions as well. Never tried it tho.
It really looks like a single dev looked through the entire code cleaning things up to make things better (which is nice), but ended up with a bunch of unintended changes (and of course the clear bugs, like the civs getting stuck). Hard to say for sure though, but more communication would be great!
True! I thought for sure they would move on completely, so it's nice to see that we still have at least 1 dev. As for 3, the initial launch has been quite a disaster yeah, lots of login / matchmaking simulator...
Hmm interesting. The devs have been trying to fix AFK Holdout for a while, so this might have been an attempt to fix this but ended up changing many things on the civ pathing. Not sure...
Kinda yes! It works a lot better in PAYDAY 3 (it goes around corners if needed), but at least we have line of sight requirements now, which is a lot better than just a simple sphere ignoring environments completely.
Hey Zee Dude! My upload schedule has been suffering a lot lately, but I do have plans to continue with all the stealth guides yup! For now, Infamy Farming videos for the next 2 weeks (for those who want to progress during winter break), and then I'll get to work on the Shacklethorne guide I think :D
The "technically" death of silent saw will be just a little hard to get used to, but the faster civies and no cooldown on interactions are great... Thats what i would say if i havent seen them before in notoriety (roblox payday 2) so that maybe explains why they took it down (MAYBE, IM NOT SURE AT ALL, I JUST MISS IT)
it definitely is not why they took it down, as notoriety has over half unoriginal total heists. the dmca strike was totally fair, just unexpected after this much time. all we can do is just wait for the new version
@@iscrollinthecomments9642 didnt they contacted the devs years ago to remove all assets from the game, they did, and then years later got dmca anyways?
@@Marcmb if you ever played stelath notoriety you would feel like payday 2 exept guards are dummer, they walk in set path but if you stand in their back the would never see you, just blind, you could run to them then jump over their heads and land behind then and not get spotted, the stealth update rebalanced that with making cameras move and target you but still was silly
the molotov changes are a pain for loud, especially for zerking with anarchist. actually that goes for many things. zerking eith c4 is now unreliable now too. seems this update fucked over loud harder
It definitely affects loud more yup, now you need to pre-throw your molo (so the explosion doesn't hit you) to get the proper old zerks. For stealth it worked out nicely because we unlocked some new zerks, but all the loud setups are slower now.
Hmmm I might be wrong because I don't test this often (there's not much benefit to marking the drones when playing solo, after all...) but I feel like this has been a thing all along! I very clearly remember red outlines around the drones, but I can't say for sure...
The speed increase is fantastic! Although them freezing in place FOREVER when they reach their destination is quite bad... At first I thought it was just civs being lazy and broken as usual, but then it turned out it's a consistent bug...
I believe the FWB Holdout trick with sentries on the table has also been patched, could you take a look into it? Other holdouts are still semi-AFKable thanks to sentries
Hey Saudade! *@Healdealer* in the comments mentioned the exact same thing: you can try asking them if they know some more! Sadly I've never used AFK Holdout myself, so I wouldn't be able to test what has changed...
Wait, so do broken unsilenced drills make no noise now? Is that why few guards are getting stucking in the vault in the Big Bank Heist when I try that drill on the manager office safe trick?
Hey DrN! For players they were bugged and made no noise, but guards could still hear it as usual (as long as you don't make them silent). If you're getting only a few guards stuck in the vault, it might be bad luck because they aren't pathing close enough to hear it and become stuck. I played BB a couple weeks ago and it was still working fine for me!
Oh no... I guess you're gonna have to wait until the event ends, to be able to complete The Lost Tapes. I don't think the devs are gonna add the spawns to the Christmas variant, since it'll be over by the time someone reports it to them...
Absolutely agree yup! Some good changes, some questionable ones, some awful bugs. It would be nice if all this had been documented in the patch notes, but I guess most of these changes were unintended in some way :p
The fact that Overkill knows how dumb civs are basically shows that they purposefully made these civs dumb Oh well, that’s why my build is made for body bags
hey marc, i did like to point civ POV, in The Big Bank, try going crouched at the downstairs part to find the code for timelock, for me civs are detecting me even crouched, the " ? " appears much higher than their heads
Interesting! I played Big Bank stealth a few days ago, but I didn't notice this (possibly because I only did the upstairs part, and we were playing co-op so I just went straight to the correct computer). Hopefully they fix this, because misleading detection is a pain...
I'm gonna have to get used to it (especially with no P2H mods so I can't just spam F), but it is a nice change with potential for timesave on many heists :D
Very true! I didn't think about that. Now there are no good convenient ways to alert the whole map to make sure it's clear. It's nice though as Fiyah said, because now we'll be forced to actually run around the place making sure everyone's dead :D
@@catfree Ouch... very unlikely to be removed then, because I think they hired some external devs to make the VR version, so I don't think they know how to update it...
Hey Guddah! Good question :) The alarm only applies to the display cases (the small pieces of glass covering the jewelry), so breaking any of the big windows is fine, even if the alarm is still active!
Fair! Very nice perspective :) The original bug was definitely way too powerful, so it's nice that they didn't just remove it completely, and instead gave us a nice way to balance the range of the saw based on the environment.
Sadly the PAYDAY 3 situation is a bit of a disaster yeah... as soon as the situation improves, I'll start making videos on it again, so definitely stay tuned! It's gonna be a great game someday, but that day is not today yet.
I don't remember if it was on this video or a different one but: I remember saying PD3 isn't dead yet and this was likely a bad one-off update. After seeing a lack of actual communication and how bad the changes were for non-stealth functionality AND new crashes introduced, I can safely say PD3 is absolutely dead (if it's not on life support) and some changes feel even more unnecessary just looking at them (enemy logic patterns). Some changes make sense (detection range of sounds being half the range if there's a wall between them and the detection) and some are a good thing (no interaction delay) but it feels almost out of touch.
PAYDAY 3 is definitely struggling a lot yup... a couple weeks ago, it reached 2-digit player numbers... I have no idea what the devs are going to do, but it'll definitely take a lot of effort if they want to salvage this.
@@Marcmb The devs would've had to implement everything from Operation . Medic Bag within the month it was announced, and a lot of free stuff too. At least, that's what a friend who played it said.
RIP indeed, although to be fair it was way too powerful! Once you understood how it worked, there was no way you were ever getting caught with the saw. Now it requires a bit more thinking with range and line of sight, but it's still very much doable :D
The ECM Feedback nerf definitely came out of nowhere yup. Ever since release, the Feedback button has always been a map-wide alert pretty much, and there was no reason to change that!
They just can't let this game rest in peace, can they? THey're gonn akepe patching it with fixes nobody asked for in hopes of making it a worse experience and nerf fire weapons that used to be DLC? IT's not going to make me want to play payday3, you know.
I think there's only 1 dev working on PAYDAY 2 right now (definitely not much more than that, considering they're even moving devs from PAYDAY 3 to their new IP), so it would be nice if he communicated a bit better with us about these changes, because some of these are clearly bugs, which would've been easily found in a short gameplay test...
hey marc, does this change the stockholm syndrome method for GO bank detailed in your guide since the saw will be in a building? or is a loud saw still loud enough?
Oh hey there again SuperFurFan! I see you already noticed this video :) This is a very good point, and I didn't think about this. The loud saw range (when using up the blade) is only 75m, which will be reduced to 37.5m because of the line of sight requirement (since you're using it inside of a building, and there's civs out of bounds...). I expect that, for proper GO Bank completions from now on, you will either need to go up and down the street (to ensure the intimidation on each civilian is refreshed every ~45 seconds), or just bring a flamethrower (alert range of 150-300m), especially if playing co-op.
@Marcmb thank you for the highly detailed and thought out response. you are the best payday youtuber ever and i hope you have a great holiday my friend.
Everything still applies yup except for the broken drills not making noise. Updates 240.4 and 240.5 were released within 1-2 weeks of 240.3, so none of these new behaviors were changed.
@Marcmb Its still a coop game and ofc saw was unrealitic but old Players are Just frustrated bcs of how much we Likes it. Interaction Change us good and they should add call to civs :3
That's completely understandable yup! Personally, I've been playing since release on 2013, and I really disliked some of these changes (because they had never been an issue for so long...), but at the same time I welcome anything that forces me to re-learn things :D
I appreciate the good changes (mostly civilian speed), but some of the changes are very questionable... They should set up a beta branch for us to test changes before they get pushed to the live version, but I guess that takes too much time for them :(
@@Lowered12 Good question! My plan is to continue making content on both. Although due to my recent lack of time, and the fact that it's faster for me to make GOOD content about PAYDAY 2 (because I know this game a lot more), I'm currently focusing on this one for now :)
Hey Tratz! The HUD that I use is PocoHUD :) You can find the settings, download links, and install instructions in my modding video, right here! Hope this helps ruclips.net/video/-ZXS1UpjTqI/видео.html
Too many bugs! Luckily one of the Starbreeze Partners got in contact with the devs to give them a top priority list, although there are some obscure bugs that won't be patched any time soon...
Worry not! To clarify, the thing that was changed was the range of the alert. The range of the STUN remains unaffected, so it should still work exactly like before the patch!
True! Best thing about it is that Counterfeit stealth printing still works. Very fancy, and I would still do it on PC every now and then if it still worked (even though we now have faster ways to farm XP...).
Good changes, and pepega changes! Overall a net positive (and I love that there's still at least 1 dev working on the game), although more communication and player-driven Q&A would be fantastic :D
They definitely do want you to buy the game, but they don't want to lose the people who still like the older game so they took some things and slightly changed them. I've seen game devs do worse to incentivise irl purchases (Rockstar nerfing Cayo Perico's payout on 10th anni of GTA5 and their continued messing with it "to allow people to explore other content"). Either way they should just leave the game alone once the next installment comes out, or only do minor patches of bugs and stuff.
Absolutely yes! Although I get the feeling that some of these bugs weren't intentional... To me this looks like a singular dev looked through the entire code cleaning things up (which is nice to do periodically), and then pushed all the changes at once, ending up with a bunch of unintended changes... It would be nice if they gave us a "Beta branch" to test these changes before they were confirmed (some other games like Lethal Company seem to do this), and then take some player feedback or early bug reports.
They gave us crossplay between Steam and Epic, so it would be very nice if they updated consoles, and added them to the crossplay. Sadly it would be too expensive, so they won't do it...
Hey Neuron! Technical response, but to clarify, this only speeds up the *loot bagging* part, in heists like Shadow Raid where loot is inside crates, or for weapons, which are always inside of weapon cases (and any chained interaction situations, as shown in the clips). However, as Helmut said, the bag cooldown (lasts for 1.2s to 1.5s from the moment you throw a bag, and prevents you from grabbing a new one) still exists, and separately, whenever you pick a bag you will still need to wait until your weapon equip animation plays (0.3s to 1s depending on weapon), and during this period the 'throw bag' action is still blocked.
@@Marcmb i hope that not removing bag cooldown was intentional i saw multiple times people using "mods" to remove it and for me it was just straight up a cheating it made looting bags too easy
@@Lowered12 I definitely agree yup! Moving bags would be too boring and easy if it was all about holding and pressing G randomly. At least the bag cooldown adds some level of complexity that you can optimize by playing it better. I've also seen many players using such mods to make it much easier, and it's 100% a cheat!
That's true yup! I would say it's a reasonable change, because the old silent saw was way too powerful (no punishment ever) after you understood how it worked. Now it involves a bit more thinking with range and line of sight, which is nice :D
Good and bad news, at least something... Actually, why does devs cannot upgrade Civilian's AI like in Payday 3? I'm not asking for big features, but at least more commands, like "Follow"(and he actually follows and not stand), maybe "Uncuff Me! " when you have PRO Stocholm Effect, so if that civ is close, he can uncuff you without trading himself. AND ALSO I'd like to have some Balance tweaks, such as: 1) Infinite or just a lot of zip ties, like how can you not carry more than 6? Or just steal cuffs from dead Police officers. 2) Make ALL Throwables Infinite, by that I mean, for example we have 6 Flashbangs at start, but there's no way you could replenish them without having a specific skill, a bot with Throwable mod or Throwables Bag. But I'd like them to be infinite and have a cool down(based on damage and effects) so you could still got 1-2 Throwables recovered at some time during the heist(especially if it's long). 3) FIX DAMN SNIPERS. How does they know your every step? 1 pixel of your body and BOOM - you're downed. Or when he hits you once and when the second time almost immediately if they even reload. 4) Give sentries a Buff in health, which would depend on the difficulty you're on, so Sentries won't be destroyed in 2.5 seconds after the Horde spawned. If only I knew where I can post my ideas, they won't see it anyway.
you have a chance to get extra zip ties from picking up ammo packs from dead cops. its fairly common in loud, but not really in stealth.luckily this game is highly moddable so a lot of the problems can be fixed by the community
The civilians in PAYDAY 3 are a lot better true, although very often the last bit of movement is done by grabbing the civilian and throwing him... which is a complex feature that sadly can't be added to PAYDAY 2 without a bit of work :( As for your suggestions, I really like throwables such as molotovs being on a cooldown (just like PCMs). It would be very different, but very cool: definitely room for new gameplay in some situations. The extra zip ties as *@lolboss* said you can already get them from ammo drops (small chance), but it would certainly be nice if we could carry a lot more (or infinite, like in PAYDAY 3). The rest of the things are mostly related to loud, so I can't say how much they would affect the balance because I don't really play loud anymore :p
I think there's only 1 dev working on PAYDAY 2 right now... it would be really good if we could have some better communication with him, because the idea behind the patch was good, but the execution very lackluster!
Interesting that you (nor the commenters) do not mention the inconsistent implementation of the new "optimization" to surfaces (ceilings, floors, and walls) that result in erratic marked status, whether via Sixth Sense ("automatically mark enemies within a 10 meter radius around you after standing still for 3.5 seconds while in stealth"), "manually" marked persons or using Trip Mines in sensor mode. I haven't tested thoroughly with the Spotter asset yet. Some walls (and ceilings and floors) apparently were changed during the "heist changes & optimization" that only listed 5 heists, but in fact changed many maps. Tdlq's Celer mod "broke" many of the surfaces because of Update 240.3, but even after removing his mod, there are still some surfaces on several heists through which Sixth Sense "manually" marked via pointing or Trip Mines in sensor mode an enemy during stealth no longer produces the outline around the person if the marked person passes behind one of these bugged surfaces. The person is still being tracked; I confirmed using a HUD mod that shows the count of persons being detected, and the count does not change, but their visual outline disappears. If the bugged surface is not farther / longer than your detection radius, weirdly the tracked person will re-appear with outline when beyond the bugged surface. Something as old and as simple as any of the "Bank Heist" maps has this kind of bugged surface. If the main entrance is considered facing "South" towards the street (so bank manager's office is considered to be northeast), the east wall of the copier room has this bugged surface. An outlined guard standing or walking on the other side while highlighted will not be visible to you, but when he walks beyond the bugged wall, you can see him outlined again. The civilians (2 bank employees and the blue sweater man) who can appear at the desks nearest the bank manager's office also become "invisible" until the player moves so that the bugged wall is no longer between player and them. The exterior west wall from the west side door to the front wall is also bugged; if player moves onto the roof or within the doorframe (so not able to normally see inside the building), the outline of a guard who stands in the SE corner becomes visible, but if player is outside the building, the outline vanishes. "Art Gallery" / "Framing Frame Day 1" is another example of a heist with bugged surfaces, such as one of the walls on which paintings are displayed inside Hall C, or another section of ceiling when the player's on the roof. A third example is a few bugged walls in "Breakin' Feds." Best regards.
Hey miao! Interesting breakdown. I've been playing mostly ECM rushes since the update (so many of these changes have changed the rushing strategies, so there was a lot to test), so I didn't do any regular stealth. I did see a Reddit post about this on Shadow Raid, where the OP said some walls cause the enemy outlines to disappear unless you aim down sights. I didn't know this thing you mentioned about different behavior if the bugged surface is farther than your DETECTION RADIUS. I was still trying to understand if this new bug is related to portals, or distance, or what exactly...
Yeah I came to this video for an explanation on this phenomenon. I use Tdlq's mods as well, and found my sixth sense was hardly marking people within range. Seems like a silly thing to optimize.
@@Pudgeee Hey Pudgeee! Keep in mind that Sixth Sense is only for close range (obviously) so I'm not sure if *@57miao's* explanation applies here. Maybe you were using some other mods like VanillaHUD+? Without mods, Sixth Sense will mark targets one by one (quite delayed), but there are some mods like VanHUD+ that force the skill to mark everyone within range instantly (since this is modded behavior, it might have changed somehow in the last update).
@Marcmb Oh no, it's seemingly fixed by removing Celer, which is a mod that adds some of those optimization tricks to maps. Even sixth sense at close range was very janky, and I had to move around to get them to display, despite seeing their health with pocohud (it was marking people 1 by 1 as per normal). It didn't use to block outlines, so presumably, the devs added that in some way. By miao's answer, their own optimizations sometimes block outlines in vanilla, though I haven't played enough to find cases of that.
@@switchjayfuckities4199 Thats... literally the definition of a flop. A dead game isnt going to generate money, especially when all the players that would be buying payday 3 dlc are instead playing payday 2 and showing no signs of going to the sequel. I absolutely see them reviving payday 2 again with the way things are going.
@@zeedude8026 It sold well enough and people still put time *into* 3, it will eventually be fine. Most of the server issues were just server issues, not community issues, AND it still has an okay all-time peak compared to a 10 year old game? Hardly a "flop" just because people enjoy the older game more. Sure, the amount of people playing PD2 makes PD3 look weak. But they still *paid* for PD3, and I'd think the resources they're getting from sales of either game would go to the newer game, especially considering PD3 is far less likely to run into the issue of not getting updates for consoles after a certain amount of time, which means... more money, assuming they actually try fairly pricing the content. What I would say about PD3 though, is it's a bit too reliant on certain things (online play) and that *will* result in the hastened death of the game if not addressed (and I think offline mode would absolutely make more people play). People will definitely still buy PD2 especially if it goes on sale because it's cheaper but worth that price. But hey, feel free to come back to this comment in a few months from now to say if I was wrong anyway because we're both somewhat following the news with the game. The fact that the devs are even addressing the issues with PD3 and trying to get feedback and make the changes shows that they do want us to play the new game and what this is, is most likely just a correction of mechanics. Again, if anything new comes to PD2 that is a major content update (like a new official heist, not just bug fixes and mechanic updates) instead of PD3 (which they do have a roadmap for regarding the first set of DLC) I will absolutely take my loss on this. If you read all the way down, just know there's people that care about you and you can always try to reach out to someone who does, they may listen. Talking to one person can help a lot. Have a nice day.
It might certainly happen in the future yup... they already had to do it once because their company almost went bankrupt. I would be happy for the game if it happened, but it would also be very sad... I guess only time will tell :(
It's a bit of a sad situation yup... I feel like currently there's only 1 or 2 devs working on PAYDAY 2, and I'm sure they had good intentions with this patch, but some of these bugs are unacceptable... If they have only a couple devs working, they should ALWAYS allow us to playtest the update before pushing it to the live version.
Kind of a W and L. On one hand these changes are good, but on the other hand the whole Payday community has barely had any major changes in fundamental mechanics, so naturally they will be a little upset. I'm just upset they won't finally update consoles. Like yeah it'll take work but are you still bankrupt? No? Exactly 🤦♂️
Excellent point of view yup! Personally I like that they are spicing things up with these changes, although some of the bugs introduced are a bit painful (and would've been solved easily if they allowed some players to test things out before pushing the update to the live version). As for consoles, very sad that they were left behind yup, and I don't think they have any intention of ever fixing that... :(
It's definitely a big loss, but I guess realistically it was way too powerful before: once you understood how it worked, you were never going to alert anyone with the saw, ever again. Now it works in a similar way, but you have to think about a bigger range, and line of sight too... which is definitely harder, but perhaps a good change!
The code for u240.3 suggested autorepairing drills now roll every time the drill breaks instead of whenever the drill is placed. I’m away from home for a while, can you confirm?
Hey Mot! I just did a quick test and placed a drill on UKJ: it auto-repaired itself for the first 2 breaks, and for the 3rd break it has been broken for minutes (even though the longest delay until auto-repair is around 10 or 20s), so this does confirm what you're saying yup!
ECM feedback always required line of sight and had range of 25 metres, I don't think that's changed, at least not according to this video. The only change shown is the alert range which is mostly relevant in stealth.
@@Raykon333 Did it required line of sight? I thought ecm feedback worked through walls as I remember. I used ecm builds in like panic room heist, and I think I saw enemy being stunned at different floors. Or maybe I could be wrong. I havent used those builds for a while so yeah, whatever lol. Thanks for telling me
To clarify, the stun portion of the feedback required either direct line of sight to the ECM itself (25m range), or line of sight to any of the 6 splinters (invisible lines) that originate from the ECM and expand in the usual cartesian directions (with a range of 12.5m), which allows the ECM to stun through corners, or small obstacles. No idea if this has changed though, since it's not very relevant for stealth... But yes as you guys have said already, this change affects mostly the stealth gameplay, and especially the alert part (which had a range of 100m, often map-wide, regardless of line of sight). **EDIT:** Source is dxdydz's PCM / ECM mechanics guide, if I remember correctly...
Some of the changes are nice but overall, man. And here I was hoping to maybe get some friends back into PD2 eventually but I'm not sure any of em would enjoy the changes if they learn em. I definitely don't quite like some of them myself either.
I would probably wait until they fix the hostage moving, because that's one of the more blatant issues, that new / returning players often notice very quickly... For the rest of them, some of the changes they might not notice depending on how familiar they are with weapon ranges, although for us experienced heisters it's definitely a noticeable change!
Haha! To clarify, when I said they were dumber, I was talking only about the civs!! Although I didn't consider this alternative interpretation at all, but you do have a point... :p
Lol now enemies are not seen through some walls on the diamond fwb and especially shadow raid, the last one really freaks me out. Also you can tell if there are more guys arrived on Brooklyn 10 10. So you have to get outta cover on one down and risk your life to check the guys… wtf is wrong with game…
I saw a Reddit post about this yes! On Shadow Raid, some walls cause the enemy outlines to disappear unless you aim down sights. I'm also having issues with guard hitboxes disappearing in some cases (so you can sprint straight through them, even when they are alerted, which shouldn't happen). But these are a lot more technical issues so I didn't include them in this video, since I'm still trying to understand if that's related to portals, or distance, or what exactly...
@@Marcmb new updates new issues and new negative emotions goddamit. At least I’m satisfied with playing as Scarface I’ve recently bought. I love Tony Montana, that’s the best character on payday imho
I like the effect it has on ECM rushing (because it spices things up, and forces us to optimize new things), but the implementation is a bit too simple so the drastic range decrease from 100m to 25m due to the presence of a single wall doesn't make much sense...
@RealHelmut For the saw, or for weapons in general? For the saw it's great for gameplay, but I personally think it's a bit silly that the range of extremely loud explosions (HE shotguns, RPG...) goes from 100m to 25m if there's a thin wall inbetween... and of course the ECM feedback would be nice if they just left it in its current state, since it's mostly used as a map-wide alert.
Thanks Wolfy! Finally hit 25 yesterday on the new reset, so now I can go back to the optimized ECM rush rotations, and go much faster :D New video about my Infamy progress soon!
Instead of just getting bugfixes like everyone expected, payday 2 seems to have one employee over at overkill overseeing it changing the balancing and the game mechanics by the standards of their own arrogant mind.
That's the same feeling that I'm getting yup, although most of these changes are so random, that it's hard to say if they were intended design choices, or unintended behavior from the new code. In any case, it definitely feels like this was done by a singular dev who went through _the entire code_ cleaning things up (which is nice to do, but has to be done carefully) and ended up with a bunch of unexpected changes!
![[PAYDAY 2] Mythbusting: Can the White House be ECM rushed?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Cd5v62MAMDA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[PAYDAY 2] Can THE Diamond be fully ECM rushed? || ECMs only, all loot challenge](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iviRoQVUuEA/mqdefault.jpg)
One of the members of the speedrun community spoke to Elisabeth and the interaction delay being removed was apparently intentional
Very interesting! It's good to know that this change is here to stay then. I liked the fact that this mechanic added some depth to weapon choices, but I guess for new players it's mostly just a nuisance (kinda like the bag cooldown, which some players choose to remove using ""mods""...).
@@Marcmb from a speedrunner perspective it’s a great little time saver but even I thought it was unintentional as it looks wonky as hell spamming f near some deposit boxes now
@@IEATZOMB13Z I thought for sure it was unintentional yup. I like the fact that it will be a flat timesave on some heists, but I also really liked the co-op aspect of splitting interactions between 2 players, to completely skip this interaction delay. Either way it's a very minor thing, so I'll agree 100% on this decision by the devs :D
told ya@@Marcmb
@@muaddib4378 Told me what? I don't remember :D About the interaction thing?
I noticed in big bank, the civies's view in the staff area have changed.
Like before when they see you the ? mark is at the same height as where their heads are but now the ? mark is a bit higher than their head, feels like as if they are standing.
This lead to some moment where they could potentially see you quite far than usual while hacking the computer
I noticed that too, makes that heist more frustrating to stealth.
Someone else mentioned this same issue yup! It's very unfortunate, because civilian detection being so misleading can make many things harder, because often you don't even see the civ who is detecting you.
This one, and the civs freezing on the spot, are definitely bugs. So hopefully the devs will look into it for U240.6...
As someone who keeps using builds that bring a ECM jammer in loud (with crits), never knew about ECM feedback being affected
by the update so knowing that now will throw a wrench into my plans.
As for the current behavior of tied-up civilians, it has gotten me just a little frustrated.
Either way, thank you for the highly-informative video.
The civs are very frustrating yup. When I need to move a civilian 5 times just because he keeps freezing at the wrong spot, and you only get 1 chance per time you interact with him...
As for the ECM in loud, don't worry too much, because the range of the _alert_ has been nerfed, but the stun part of it seems to work as usual (with the usual range), so that should be fine :)
between 240.3 and one of the later patches, the interaction cooldown upon masking up was also removed, but it seems to be re-patched so you now have to wait until you start drawing your weapon
Yes! Back in U240.2 mask cancelling was possible, although I'm not sure which was the first update that introduced it. Sadly U240.3 patched mask cancelling, and I don't think it's ever coming back... :(
Why cant they just leave the game alone man....
Because payday3 flopped
Well most of the changes shown here are good besides the civs being dumber.
They want to ruin this game even more than they already have so they can try to push people to payday 3. Theyll keep making these undocumented changes in the hopes that people wont notice and eventually feel forced to 3. They are DESPERATE
@fiyahquacker2835 i dont even think the civ thing is awful either. it makes em a bit more predictable at least. the old method was still better tho
If it makes ya feel better all of payday 2's previous version can be downloaded from the steam depots. Apparently you can play online on older versions as well. Never tried it tho.
Most of this just feels like change for the sake of change instead of changes for improving gameplay
It really looks like a single dev looked through the entire code cleaning things up to make things better (which is nice), but ended up with a bunch of unintended changes (and of course the clear bugs, like the civs getting stuck). Hard to say for sure though, but more communication would be great!
Im surprised they’re still giving this game attention considering login-day 3 was so anticipated
it's weird how every time an update causes crashing issues, payday 3 gets an update same week
True! I thought for sure they would move on completely, so it's nice to see that we still have at least 1 dev. As for 3, the initial launch has been quite a disaster yeah, lots of login / matchmaking simulator...
They broke the Pathing of Bots in Holdout for solo farming and changed some cop pathing there aswell. Atleast I can't solo AFK Holdouts anymore
Hmm interesting. The devs have been trying to fix AFK Holdout for a while, so this might have been an attempt to fix this but ended up changing many things on the civ pathing. Not sure...
1:05 MY GOOOD, They finally managing the sound propagation?
Kinda yes! It works a lot better in PAYDAY 3 (it goes around corners if needed), but at least we have line of sight requirements now, which is a lot better than just a simple sphere ignoring environments completely.
Hey marcmb, do you plan to do anymore ultimate stealth guides for any other payday 2 heists?
Hey Zee Dude! My upload schedule has been suffering a lot lately, but I do have plans to continue with all the stealth guides yup! For now, Infamy Farming videos for the next 2 weeks (for those who want to progress during winter break), and then I'll get to work on the Shacklethorne guide I think :D
@@Marcmb Awesome, looking forward to it. Keep up the good work buddy.
why is my saw not applying the law of walls? it's still alarming way farther than it should
Hey Mizunuma! Recently patched last week in Update 240.6. I'll have a new video on this coming soon!
The "technically" death of silent saw will be just a little hard to get used to, but the faster civies and no cooldown on interactions are great... Thats what i would say if i havent seen them before in notoriety (roblox payday 2) so that maybe explains why they took it down (MAYBE, IM NOT SURE AT ALL, I JUST MISS IT)
it definitely is not why they took it down, as notoriety has over half unoriginal total heists.
the dmca strike was totally fair, just unexpected after this much time.
all we can do is just wait for the new version
@@iscrollinthecomments9642 didnt they contacted the devs years ago to remove all assets from the game, they did, and then years later got dmca anyways?
RIP Notoriety. I never played it myself, but it's a shame that Starbreeze forced them to take it down :(
@@Marcmb if you ever played stelath notoriety you would feel like payday 2 exept guards are dummer, they walk in set path but if you stand in their back the would never see you, just blind, you could run to them then jump over their heads and land behind then and not get spotted, the stealth update rebalanced that with making cameras move and target you but still was silly
the molotov changes are a pain for loud, especially for zerking with anarchist. actually that goes for many things. zerking eith c4 is now unreliable now too. seems this update fucked over loud harder
It definitely affects loud more yup, now you need to pre-throw your molo (so the explosion doesn't hit you) to get the proper old zerks. For stealth it worked out nicely because we unlocked some new zerks, but all the loud setups are slower now.
Was this ever fixed? The saw, the big bank detection, the dumber civs? Or this one was the last update we got?
Hey Diego! We have not had any new updates since this update came out. So everything mentioned in this video still applies nowadays...
i just discovered something new apparently the drones in murky station can now be marked
Hmmm I might be wrong because I don't test this often (there's not much benefit to marking the drones when playing solo, after all...) but I feel like this has been a thing all along! I very clearly remember red outlines around the drones, but I can't say for sure...
Omg i notice this change on hostage and thing i was crazy because 2 of my mods fix the civ pathing
The speed increase is fantastic! Although them freezing in place FOREVER when they reach their destination is quite bad... At first I thought it was just civs being lazy and broken as usual, but then it turned out it's a consistent bug...
@@Marcmb the good thing is "The Fixes" fixed that
@@kawaka4432 Impressive! I'm gonna have to check that out. Every now and then I read his recent changelog, but I didn't see this one yet :D
I believe the FWB Holdout trick with sentries on the table has also been patched, could you take a look into it? Other holdouts are still semi-AFKable thanks to sentries
Hey Saudade! *@Healdealer* in the comments mentioned the exact same thing: you can try asking them if they know some more! Sadly I've never used AFK Holdout myself, so I wouldn't be able to test what has changed...
Wait, so do broken unsilenced drills make no noise now? Is that why few guards are getting stucking in the vault in the Big Bank Heist when I try that drill on the manager office safe trick?
Hey DrN! For players they were bugged and made no noise, but guards could still hear it as usual (as long as you don't make them silent). If you're getting only a few guards stuck in the vault, it might be bad luck because they aren't pathing close enough to hear it and become stuck. I played BB a couple weeks ago and it was still working fine for me!
Christmas Hoxton Breakout doesn't have the lost tapes keycards for some reason
Oh no... I guess you're gonna have to wait until the event ends, to be able to complete The Lost Tapes. I don't think the devs are gonna add the spawns to the Christmas variant, since it'll be over by the time someone reports it to them...
50/50 good and bad update ? i feel like a old one 🤣 thank you to make us khow what a new changes in new update😃
Absolutely agree yup! Some good changes, some questionable ones, some awful bugs. It would be nice if all this had been documented in the patch notes, but I guess most of these changes were unintended in some way :p
The fact that Overkill knows how dumb civs are basically shows that they purposefully made these civs dumb
Oh well, that’s why my build is made for body bags
Haha yup! Body bags superior always :D
hey marc, i did like to point civ POV, in The Big Bank, try going crouched at the downstairs part to find the code for timelock, for me civs are detecting me even crouched, the " ? " appears much higher than their heads
Interesting! I played Big Bank stealth a few days ago, but I didn't notice this (possibly because I only did the upstairs part, and we were playing co-op so I just went straight to the correct computer). Hopefully they fix this, because misleading detection is a pain...
6:47 W change
I'm gonna have to get used to it (especially with no P2H mods so I can't just spam F), but it is a nice change with potential for timesave on many heists :D
5:12 Rip big oil day 1 trick
Honestly I like that.
Very true! I didn't think about that. Now there are no good convenient ways to alert the whole map to make sure it's clear. It's nice though as Fiyah said, because now we'll be forced to actually run around the place making sure everyone's dead :D
I hope they'll add the option to disable auto aim in the VR mode
Didn't know VR had auto-aim! Is this new, or has it existed since the first day?
@@Marcmb AFAIK since 2020 though I haven't found a patchnote related to it so it's probably been there since launch
@@catfree Ouch... very unlikely to be removed then, because I think they hired some external devs to make the VR version, so I don't think they know how to update it...
@@Marcmb More motivation to make my own VR game I guess...
4:25, why didn't the alarm go off? Isn't the alarm tied to all glass in the store?
well, alarm's off
Hey Guddah! Good question :) The alarm only applies to the display cases (the small pieces of glass covering the jewelry), so breaking any of the big windows is fine, even if the alarm is still active!
1:00 now this is good game development.
making a bug an actual feature while making it also easier and more intuitive to use.
Fair! Very nice perspective :) The original bug was definitely way too powerful, so it's nice that they didn't just remove it completely, and instead gave us a nice way to balance the range of the saw based on the environment.
I have yet to play payday3, but if they spend this much attention on 2, then it must mean that they faild at 3 and they dont know where i guess
Sadly the PAYDAY 3 situation is a bit of a disaster yeah... as soon as the situation improves, I'll start making videos on it again, so definitely stay tuned! It's gonna be a great game someday, but that day is not today yet.
I don't remember if it was on this video or a different one but:
I remember saying PD3 isn't dead yet and this was likely a bad one-off update. After seeing a lack of actual communication and how bad the changes were for non-stealth functionality AND new crashes introduced, I can safely say PD3 is absolutely dead (if it's not on life support) and some changes feel even more unnecessary just looking at them (enemy logic patterns). Some changes make sense (detection range of sounds being half the range if there's a wall between them and the detection) and some are a good thing (no interaction delay) but it feels almost out of touch.
PAYDAY 3 is definitely struggling a lot yup... a couple weeks ago, it reached 2-digit player numbers... I have no idea what the devs are going to do, but it'll definitely take a lot of effort if they want to salvage this.
@@Marcmb The devs would've had to implement everything from Operation . Medic Bag within the month it was announced, and a lot of free stuff too.
At least, that's what a friend who played it said.
rip stealth sawing
RIP indeed, although to be fair it was way too powerful! Once you understood how it worked, there was no way you were ever getting caught with the saw. Now it requires a bit more thinking with range and line of sight, but it's still very much doable :D
Interactions changes are nice but nerfing ECM was stupid.
The ECM Feedback nerf definitely came out of nowhere yup. Ever since release, the Feedback button has always been a map-wide alert pretty much, and there was no reason to change that!
no cooldaen between interaction is a good like festyre
It's nice that it offers potential for timesave on many heists! I'll be abusing this one as much as I can :D
They just can't let this game rest in peace, can they? THey're gonn akepe patching it with fixes nobody asked for in hopes of making it a worse experience and nerf fire weapons that used to be DLC?
IT's not going to make me want to play payday3, you know.
I think there's only 1 dev working on PAYDAY 2 right now (definitely not much more than that, considering they're even moving devs from PAYDAY 3 to their new IP), so it would be nice if he communicated a bit better with us about these changes, because some of these are clearly bugs, which would've been easily found in a short gameplay test...
hey marc, does this change the stockholm syndrome method for GO bank detailed in your guide since the saw will be in a building? or is a loud saw still loud enough?
Oh hey there again SuperFurFan! I see you already noticed this video :)
This is a very good point, and I didn't think about this. The loud saw range (when using up the blade) is only 75m, which will be reduced to 37.5m because of the line of sight requirement (since you're using it inside of a building, and there's civs out of bounds...). I expect that, for proper GO Bank completions from now on, you will either need to go up and down the street (to ensure the intimidation on each civilian is refreshed every ~45 seconds), or just bring a flamethrower (alert range of 150-300m), especially if playing co-op.
@Marcmb thank you for the highly detailed and thought out response. you are the best payday youtuber ever and i hope you have a great holiday my friend.
@@superfurfannyaa1864 You're welcome! Glad the response helped :) Happy holidays to you as well!
Does some of this still applies as of 240.5?
Everything still applies yup except for the broken drills not making noise. Updates 240.4 and 240.5 were released within 1-2 weeks of 240.3, so none of these new behaviors were changed.
@@Marcmb Thanks man, i'm actually wondering when you make videos on Shackletorne Auction and the Banks Heists, cheers.
@Marcmb Its still a coop game and ofc saw was unrealitic but old Players are Just frustrated bcs of how much we Likes it. Interaction Change us good and they should add call to civs :3
That's completely understandable yup! Personally, I've been playing since release on 2013, and I really disliked some of these changes (because they had never been an issue for so long...), but at the same time I welcome anything that forces me to re-learn things :D
Man i just love it that instead of fixing that garbage payday 3 they decided to make payday 2 worse thanks ....
I appreciate the good changes (mostly civilian speed), but some of the changes are very questionable... They should set up a beta branch for us to test changes before they get pushed to the live version, but I guess that takes too much time for them :(
@@Marcmb are you going tocmake an updated ultimate stealth guide for payday 2 because of this patch or are you going to focus mostly on payday 3?
@@Lowered12 Good question! My plan is to continue making content on both. Although due to my recent lack of time, and the fact that it's faster for me to make GOOD content about PAYDAY 2 (because I know this game a lot more), I'm currently focusing on this one for now :)
Man I would really love to know which hud mod are you using I would love to play with that
Hey Tratz! The HUD that I use is PocoHUD :)
You can find the settings, download links, and install instructions in my modding video, right here! Hope this helps ruclips.net/video/-ZXS1UpjTqI/видео.html
@@Marcmb Thanks so much man! Keep up the good work on the vids, they are really helping me!
why they updating and breaking shit? dont they have a game to fix???
The folks still working on PD2 are a separate team, I’m pretty sure. Primary development is still on PD3.
Most stuff shown here is good.
Too many bugs! Luckily one of the Starbreeze Partners got in contact with the devs to give them a top priority list, although there are some obscure bugs that won't be patched any time soon...
The ECM change sucks. It was barely useful before (in loud)
Worry not! To clarify, the thing that was changed was the range of the alert. The range of the STUN remains unaffected, so it should still work exactly like before the patch!
Maybe they should focus on payday 3
I think the devs working on 3 and 2 are different, but it's still a bit disappointing that we get some of these bugs :(
Now I understand why payday 3 updates arent coming, they keep fucking updating payday 2 for no reason.
They should allow us to playtest these things before they add them to the game, I think :(
They fixed bugs and exploits, good.
That part is good yes! Fixing bugs and exploits is always good, but adding new bugs, or removing intended features by mistake, is really bad!
@@Marcmb Can't argue with that.
I love being on console so we don’t get patches and bug fixes ool
True! Best thing about it is that Counterfeit stealth printing still works. Very fancy, and I would still do it on PC every now and then if it still worked (even though we now have faster ways to farm XP...).
Yeah ive been wanting a gaming pc for a while console payday sucks
@@Marcmb
So they are still updating payday2?
That seems to be the case yup! Hopefully U240.6 soon to fix some of these bugs, but we'll see how long it takes them.
Marcmb did you know you can stealth the mallcresher?
*Mallcrasher
Yes! I enjoy playing it every now and then in co-op random stealth. Quite unique, compared to the more usual stealth heists :D
kind of W update.
Good changes, and pepega changes! Overall a net positive (and I love that there's still at least 1 dev working on the game), although more communication and player-driven Q&A would be fantastic :D
they really want you to buy payday 3
They definitely do want you to buy the game, but they don't want to lose the people who still like the older game so they took some things and slightly changed them.
I've seen game devs do worse to incentivise irl purchases (Rockstar nerfing Cayo Perico's payout on 10th anni of GTA5 and their continued messing with it "to allow people to explore other content").
Either way they should just leave the game alone once the next installment comes out, or only do minor patches of bugs and stuff.
Absolutely yes! Although I get the feeling that some of these bugs weren't intentional... To me this looks like a singular dev looked through the entire code cleaning things up (which is nice to do periodically), and then pushed all the changes at once, ending up with a bunch of unintended changes... It would be nice if they gave us a "Beta branch" to test these changes before they were confirmed (some other games like Lethal Company seem to do this), and then take some player feedback or early bug reports.
They should have updated game on consoles
They gave us crossplay between Steam and Epic, so it would be very nice if they updated consoles, and added them to the crossplay. Sadly it would be too expensive, so they won't do it...
🍅 ❤
Tomate guuut. Cathop guuut.
@@zyllaQ new ECM rush video this weekend mistah!
@@Marcmb oh my golly gosh
The interaction changes are kind of nice. It will make moving large groups of bags at a time less painful.
Hey Neuron! Technical response, but to clarify, this only speeds up the *loot bagging* part, in heists like Shadow Raid where loot is inside crates, or for weapons, which are always inside of weapon cases (and any chained interaction situations, as shown in the clips).
However, as Helmut said, the bag cooldown (lasts for 1.2s to 1.5s from the moment you throw a bag, and prevents you from grabbing a new one) still exists, and separately, whenever you pick a bag you will still need to wait until your weapon equip animation plays (0.3s to 1s depending on weapon), and during this period the 'throw bag' action is still blocked.
@@Marcmb i hope that not removing bag cooldown was intentional i saw multiple times people using "mods" to remove it and for me it was just straight up a cheating it made looting bags too easy
@@Marcmb ah! ok. thanks for clarifying this!
@@Lowered12 I definitely agree yup! Moving bags would be too boring and easy if it was all about holding and pressing G randomly. At least the bag cooldown adds some level of complexity that you can optimize by playing it better. I've also seen many players using such mods to make it much easier, and it's 100% a cheat!
Happy to help :) @@NeuronPlaytech
The saw change is interesting. İt kinda punishes experienced players while letting saw be kinda actually silent for newer folk
That's true yup! I would say it's a reasonable change, because the old silent saw was way too powerful (no punishment ever) after you understood how it worked. Now it involves a bit more thinking with range and line of sight, which is nice :D
Does this mean I can use the saw on San Martin bank without the 1st floor guards hearing me now?
Good and bad news, at least something... Actually, why does devs cannot upgrade Civilian's AI like in Payday 3? I'm not asking for big features, but at least more commands, like "Follow"(and he actually follows and not stand), maybe "Uncuff Me! " when you have PRO Stocholm Effect, so if that civ is close, he can uncuff you without trading himself.
AND ALSO I'd like to have some Balance tweaks, such as:
1) Infinite or just a lot of zip ties, like how can you not carry more than 6? Or just steal cuffs from dead Police officers.
2) Make ALL Throwables Infinite, by that I mean, for example we have 6 Flashbangs at start, but there's no way you could replenish them without having a specific skill, a bot with Throwable mod or Throwables Bag. But I'd like them to be infinite and have a cool down(based on damage and effects) so you could still got 1-2 Throwables recovered at some time during the heist(especially if it's long).
3) FIX DAMN SNIPERS. How does they know your every step? 1 pixel of your body and BOOM - you're downed. Or when he hits you once and when the second time almost immediately if they even reload.
4) Give sentries a Buff in health, which would depend on the difficulty you're on, so Sentries won't be destroyed in 2.5 seconds after the Horde spawned.
If only I knew where I can post my ideas, they won't see it anyway.
you have a chance to get extra zip ties from picking up ammo packs from dead cops. its fairly common in loud, but not really in stealth.luckily this game is highly moddable so a lot of the problems can be fixed by the community
The civilians in PAYDAY 3 are a lot better true, although very often the last bit of movement is done by grabbing the civilian and throwing him... which is a complex feature that sadly can't be added to PAYDAY 2 without a bit of work :(
As for your suggestions, I really like throwables such as molotovs being on a cooldown (just like PCMs). It would be very different, but very cool: definitely room for new gameplay in some situations. The extra zip ties as *@lolboss* said you can already get them from ammo drops (small chance), but it would certainly be nice if we could carry a lot more (or infinite, like in PAYDAY 3). The rest of the things are mostly related to loud, so I can't say how much they would affect the balance because I don't really play loud anymore :p
"How does it feel to watch all of your favourite franchises go down in flames?"
"Feels great!"
I think there's only 1 dev working on PAYDAY 2 right now... it would be really good if we could have some better communication with him, because the idea behind the patch was good, but the execution very lackluster!
Interesting that you (nor the commenters) do not mention the inconsistent implementation of the new "optimization" to surfaces (ceilings, floors, and walls) that result in erratic marked status, whether via Sixth Sense ("automatically mark enemies within a 10 meter radius around you after standing still for 3.5 seconds while in stealth"), "manually" marked persons or using Trip Mines in sensor mode. I haven't tested thoroughly with the Spotter asset yet.
Some walls (and ceilings and floors) apparently were changed during the "heist changes & optimization" that only listed 5 heists, but in fact changed many maps. Tdlq's Celer mod "broke" many of the surfaces because of Update 240.3, but even after removing his mod, there are still some surfaces on several heists through which Sixth Sense "manually" marked via pointing or Trip Mines in sensor mode an enemy during stealth no longer produces the outline around the person if the marked person passes behind one of these bugged surfaces. The person is still being tracked; I confirmed using a HUD mod that shows the count of persons being detected, and the count does not change, but their visual outline disappears. If the bugged surface is not farther / longer than your detection radius, weirdly the tracked person will re-appear with outline when beyond the bugged surface.
Something as old and as simple as any of the "Bank Heist" maps has this kind of bugged surface. If the main entrance is considered facing "South" towards the street (so bank manager's office is considered to be northeast), the east wall of the copier room has this bugged surface. An outlined guard standing or walking on the other side while highlighted will not be visible to you, but when he walks beyond the bugged wall, you can see him outlined again. The civilians (2 bank employees and the blue sweater man) who can appear at the desks nearest the bank manager's office also become "invisible" until the player moves so that the bugged wall is no longer between player and them. The exterior west wall from the west side door to the front wall is also bugged; if player moves onto the roof or within the doorframe (so not able to normally see inside the building), the outline of a guard who stands in the SE corner becomes visible, but if player is outside the building, the outline vanishes.
"Art Gallery" / "Framing Frame Day 1" is another example of a heist with bugged surfaces, such as one of the walls on which paintings are displayed inside Hall C, or another section of ceiling when the player's on the roof.
A third example is a few bugged walls in "Breakin' Feds."
Best regards.
Hey miao! Interesting breakdown. I've been playing mostly ECM rushes since the update (so many of these changes have changed the rushing strategies, so there was a lot to test), so I didn't do any regular stealth.
I did see a Reddit post about this on Shadow Raid, where the OP said some walls cause the enemy outlines to disappear unless you aim down sights. I didn't know this thing you mentioned about different behavior if the bugged surface is farther than your DETECTION RADIUS. I was still trying to understand if this new bug is related to portals, or distance, or what exactly...
Yeah I came to this video for an explanation on this phenomenon. I use Tdlq's mods as well, and found my sixth sense was hardly marking people within range. Seems like a silly thing to optimize.
@@Pudgeee Hey Pudgeee! Keep in mind that Sixth Sense is only for close range (obviously) so I'm not sure if *@57miao's* explanation applies here. Maybe you were using some other mods like VanillaHUD+? Without mods, Sixth Sense will mark targets one by one (quite delayed), but there are some mods like VanHUD+ that force the skill to mark everyone within range instantly (since this is modded behavior, it might have changed somehow in the last update).
@Marcmb Oh no, it's seemingly fixed by removing Celer, which is a mod that adds some of those optimization tricks to maps. Even sixth sense at close range was very janky, and I had to move around to get them to display, despite seeing their health with pocohud (it was marking people 1 by 1 as per normal).
It didn't use to block outlines, so presumably, the devs added that in some way. By miao's answer, their own optimizations sometimes block outlines in vanilla, though I haven't played enough to find cases of that.
Cant wait for them to start making new dlcs for pd2 because pd3 flopped
I don't think it "flopped" it's just dead asf
@@switchjayfuckities4199 Thats... literally the definition of a flop. A dead game isnt going to generate money, especially when all the players that would be buying payday 3 dlc are instead playing payday 2 and showing no signs of going to the sequel. I absolutely see them reviving payday 2 again with the way things are going.
@@zeedude8026 It sold well enough and people still put time *into* 3, it will eventually be fine. Most of the server issues were just server issues, not community issues, AND it still has an okay all-time peak compared to a 10 year old game? Hardly a "flop" just because people enjoy the older game more.
Sure, the amount of people playing PD2 makes PD3 look weak. But they still *paid* for PD3, and I'd think the resources they're getting from sales of either game would go to the newer game, especially considering PD3 is far less likely to run into the issue of not getting updates for consoles after a certain amount of time, which means... more money, assuming they actually try fairly pricing the content.
What I would say about PD3 though, is it's a bit too reliant on certain things (online play) and that *will* result in the hastened death of the game if not addressed (and I think offline mode would absolutely make more people play).
People will definitely still buy PD2 especially if it goes on sale because it's cheaper but worth that price.
But hey, feel free to come back to this comment in a few months from now to say if I was wrong anyway because we're both somewhat following the news with the game. The fact that the devs are even addressing the issues with PD3 and trying to get feedback and make the changes shows that they do want us to play the new game and what this is, is most likely just a correction of mechanics.
Again, if anything new comes to PD2 that is a major content update (like a new official heist, not just bug fixes and mechanic updates) instead of PD3 (which they do have a roadmap for regarding the first set of DLC) I will absolutely take my loss on this.
If you read all the way down, just know there's people that care about you and you can always try to reach out to someone who does, they may listen. Talking to one person can help a lot. Have a nice day.
It might certainly happen in the future yup... they already had to do it once because their company almost went bankrupt. I would be happy for the game if it happened, but it would also be very sad... I guess only time will tell :(
hey marc, great video as always... do you happen to know the music you used throughout the video? For the first 2 minutes only, thanks!
Very kind of you FrostCutter, thanks! As for the music, it's Sly Gloves, The Take 2016, and Home Invasion 2016, in order of appearance :D
God dammit why cant overkill just leave PD2 alone after PD3 release, not like its gonna make PD3 less plays or something
It's a bit of a sad situation yup... I feel like currently there's only 1 or 2 devs working on PAYDAY 2, and I'm sure they had good intentions with this patch, but some of these bugs are unacceptable... If they have only a couple devs working, they should ALWAYS allow us to playtest the update before pushing it to the live version.
Kind of a W and L. On one hand these changes are good, but on the other hand the whole Payday community has barely had any major changes in fundamental mechanics, so naturally they will be a little upset. I'm just upset they won't finally update consoles. Like yeah it'll take work but are you still bankrupt? No? Exactly 🤦♂️
Excellent point of view yup! Personally I like that they are spicing things up with these changes, although some of the bugs introduced are a bit painful (and would've been solved easily if they allowed some players to test things out before pushing the update to the live version). As for consoles, very sad that they were left behind yup, and I don't think they have any intention of ever fixing that... :(
silent saw being patched really pains me...
It's definitely a big loss, but I guess realistically it was way too powerful before: once you understood how it worked, you were never going to alert anyone with the saw, ever again. Now it works in a similar way, but you have to think about a bigger range, and line of sight too... which is definitely harder, but perhaps a good change!
These new updates are just ruining payday im happy that console edition is outdated so i dont have to deal with this bs
The best thing about console PAYDAY is that Counterfeit stealth printing still exists, so anyone who was late to the party can still check it out :D
@@Marcmb yeah i remember i got a hearted comment on me saying that when you did the video saying its patched
@@denver500. Aah that's nice! That video was so long ago now :D time flies!
Why overkill WHY!?!?!?
There's no communication sadly, so at the moment we don't know yet :(
The code for u240.3 suggested autorepairing drills now roll every time the drill breaks instead of whenever the drill is placed. I’m away from home for a while, can you confirm?
Hey Mot! I just did a quick test and placed a drill on UKJ: it auto-repaired itself for the first 2 breaks, and for the 3rd break it has been broken for minutes (even though the longest delay until auto-repair is around 10 or 20s), so this does confirm what you're saying yup!
@@Marcmb swag
Good vid!
Thank you very much Lazer! Glad you liked it :D
Seems like loud ecm builds are dead now, if it wasn't before lol
Aaand I think I gonna need hud that shows distance now damn
ECM feedback always required line of sight and had range of 25 metres, I don't think that's changed, at least not according to this video. The only change shown is the alert range which is mostly relevant in stealth.
@@Raykon333 Did it required line of sight? I thought ecm feedback worked through walls as I remember. I used ecm builds in like panic room heist, and I think I saw enemy being stunned at different floors.
Or maybe I could be wrong. I havent used those builds for a while so yeah, whatever lol. Thanks for telling me
@@Raykon333 nope it absolutely did not require line of sight before but not sure if it was 100m distance.
@@fiyahquacker2835 source? Mine is the long guide + plenty of experience with ECM in loud.
To clarify, the stun portion of the feedback required either direct line of sight to the ECM itself (25m range), or line of sight to any of the 6 splinters (invisible lines) that originate from the ECM and expand in the usual cartesian directions (with a range of 12.5m), which allows the ECM to stun through corners, or small obstacles. No idea if this has changed though, since it's not very relevant for stealth...
But yes as you guys have said already, this change affects mostly the stealth gameplay, and especially the alert part (which had a range of 100m, often map-wide, regardless of line of sight).
**EDIT:** Source is dxdydz's PCM / ECM mechanics guide, if I remember correctly...
These are some pretty nice updates, I'm glad they're still working so much on it!
Hopefully more updates to come! If the next one also has many undocumented changes, I'll make a similar video :)
Some of the changes are nice but overall, man.
And here I was hoping to maybe get some friends back into PD2 eventually but I'm not sure any of em would enjoy the changes if they learn em. I definitely don't quite like some of them myself either.
I would probably wait until they fix the hostage moving, because that's one of the more blatant issues, that new / returning players often notice very quickly... For the rest of them, some of the changes they might not notice depending on how familiar they are with weapon ranges, although for us experienced heisters it's definitely a noticeable change!
2:07 now think on the fact that these civs are modeled of the overkill members and how they do patches! marcos writing there makes much sense to it!
Haha! To clarify, when I said they were dumber, I was talking only about the civs!! Although I didn't consider this alternative interpretation at all, but you do have a point... :p
Lol now enemies are not seen through some walls on the diamond fwb and especially shadow raid, the last one really freaks me out. Also you can tell if there are more guys arrived on Brooklyn 10 10. So you have to get outta cover on one down and risk your life to check the guys… wtf is wrong with game…
I saw a Reddit post about this yes! On Shadow Raid, some walls cause the enemy outlines to disappear unless you aim down sights. I'm also having issues with guard hitboxes disappearing in some cases (so you can sprint straight through them, even when they are alerted, which shouldn't happen). But these are a lot more technical issues so I didn't include them in this video, since I'm still trying to understand if that's related to portals, or distance, or what exactly...
@@Marcmb new updates new issues and new negative emotions goddamit. At least I’m satisfied with playing as Scarface I’ve recently bought. I love Tony Montana, that’s the best character on payday imho
The noise being blocked by walls is such an awful change. Seriously, why can’t they leave the game alone
I definitely wouldn't consider it awful.
I like the effect it has on ECM rushing (because it spices things up, and forces us to optimize new things), but the implementation is a bit too simple so the drastic range decrease from 100m to 25m due to the presence of a single wall doesn't make much sense...
@RealHelmut For the saw, or for weapons in general? For the saw it's great for gameplay, but I personally think it's a bit silly that the range of extremely loud explosions (HE shotguns, RPG...) goes from 100m to 25m if there's a thin wall inbetween... and of course the ECM feedback would be nice if they just left it in its current state, since it's mostly used as a map-wide alert.
510 infamy already! congrats!
Thanks Wolfy! Finally hit 25 yesterday on the new reset, so now I can go back to the optimized ECM rush rotations, and go much faster :D
New video about my Infamy progress soon!
@@Marcmb hell i never got even 25 infamy for entire my life. your infamy growing too fast! oh, by the way, waiting for ur video!
@@wolfy1803 25 is always a good goal to start with! Glad you're looking forward to this video :D
Instead of just getting bugfixes like everyone expected, payday 2 seems to have one employee over at overkill overseeing it changing the balancing and the game mechanics by the standards of their own arrogant mind.
Jules 2.0
That's the same feeling that I'm getting yup, although most of these changes are so random, that it's hard to say if they were intended design choices, or unintended behavior from the new code. In any case, it definitely feels like this was done by a singular dev who went through _the entire code_ cleaning things up (which is nice to do, but has to be done carefully) and ended up with a bunch of unexpected changes!