The Iroquois Confederacy
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2018
- Patreon | historiacivilis.com/patreon
Donate | historiacivilis.com/donate
Merch | historiacivilis.com/merch
Mailing List | historiacivilis.com/mailinglist
Twitter | historiacivilis.com/twitter
Website | historiacivilis.com
Sources:
"Discourse Delivered Before the New-York Historical Society: At Their Anniversary meeting, 6th December, 1811," by DeWitt Clinton: amzn.to/2JJZ7eB
"The Great Law and the Longhouse: A Political History of the Iroquois Confederacy," by William N. Fenton: amzn.to/2JKVTYo
"League of the Hodenosaunee or Iroquois," by Lewis H. Morgan: amzn.to/2MzRfue
"Forgotten Founders," by Bruce E. Johansen: amzn.to/2Mz8VGf
"French-Iroquois Diplomatic and Military Relations 1609-1701," by Robert A. Goldstein: amzn.to/2JLjfxd
Music:
"Deluge," by Cellophane Sam
"Hallon," by Christian Bjoerklund
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
As a resident of New York State, we were forced to learn about the Iroquois(Haudenosaunee) peoples in school at an early age. This video really makes me appreciate their peoples and how complex but fascinating the political systems they had into place, more than I ever did as a younger kid. Keep up the great work, the videos are fantastic and I will always support you on Patreon as long as you keep them coming!!
How was this comment made 2 days ago if this video was just posted today?
7th Grade Social studies in a town "where the land and waters meet" according to the Seneca. Longhouses with clay and toothpicks... awwww yeah.
It's amazing what a quick, focused video made with passion can do that a bullet-point curriculum made vague through apathy can't.
Salazar Ravenclaw earlier open to patreon supporters. Now available for public
You make it seem like they forced you at gunpoint or something. lol
“Proper names, they make everything easy!”
*Glares at the Ptolemies*
Lemme just go get my friend ptolomy MMCCCXXVII
But tbf no ones gonna get confused who came first. Ptolemy II or Ptolemy X lmao
@@TheRambunctious ... I watched OSP's video, and if I recall... yes. Yes they will.
@@TheRambunctious ahahaha, the numbers are actually wrong at one point.
@@iamseamonkey6688 duo millesimo trecentesimo vigintesimo et septimo
Haudenosaunee Council: We grant you the rank of Youngest Sibling, but you are not on this council.
Tuscarora: I guess that's fair.
And that's how their democracy is still around.
It seems to me that would change once they had been around long enough.
Well it's basically comparable to a policy of showing illegal immigrants to stay but not giving them citizenship rights. That's quite a bit advanced from America's current immigration policy.
Like imagine a country that says "okay we will accept an entire country's population as refugees forever, who will become nationals but can't vote." Not egalitarian byut certainly an immigration policy that would make almost any modern nation state's conservative elements gawk.
I'm Cherokee 💞 Tuscarora imagine at that timeframe what the Tuscarora went through spoke the same language & also lived in longhouses "fought the British & later the Cherokee what we knows the Civil War are numbers were low " not all migrated Eastward many stayed in homeland what is now N .Carolina
>Political stability, respect for superiors and equality
>Romans
Doubtful
Also: women in power, matrilineal descent
all of those could be attributed to the romans? it only seemed unstable because we can cherrypick an extremely long enduring state
@@lusteraliaszero People do in fact keep forgetting the Pax Romana, and there were definitely more times of peace than war in the empire.
@@3asianassassin "More" depends a lot on whether or not you consider the Empire to have continued after Constantine. But more times of peace than war? Definitely not. Internal stability was largely achieved but the empire conducted continuous external campaigns against Parthia, Dacia, etc, etc, what have you, interspersed by revolts such as the Bar Kokhba Revolt in Judea.
@@darkjemdude Still peace.
For a long time I thought I was pretty clever by deducing that the name of the Hudson River was probably a corruption of "Haudenosaunee". Then I discovered that it was actually named after Henry Hudson and felt pretty foolish.
I've never let facts get in the way of a perfectly good opinion! Neither should you! Repeat your theory often enough, and with enough sincerity, and you can change history!
@@glenbarrington2634 hmm yes, spread lies, that's a good way to live.
@@Carnifindion I'm sorry you are so humor-impaired that you can't recognize humorous hyperbole. Your world must be very gray.
@@glenbarrington2634 with all respect, if you were making a joke it was very unobvious
@@Carnifindion seems like most people got it. maybe dont take it so personally that you didnt.
At first I was confused why the larger nations had fewer Sachems on the council, but then I realized that in the way the council is set up, no individual Sachem having a direct vote, it's advantageous to have fewer Sachems as you can reach consensus among your nation easier with fewer people.
Consensus is easier, but there is perhaps also an advantage in having more heard by the others of what your people have to say.
@@xTheUnderscorex yeah I would think more is better. More ideas
BIUT IROQUOIS DOMINATED ALL OTHER TRIBES THE PROOF IS RIGHT I YOUR FACE
it kinda looks like they originally all had 9 (except the 14 firekeepers) but at some point the Seneca lost one and the Cayuga gained one
That feeling you get, when you have watched a Historis Civilis video and the outro melody plays. Best feeling ever!
Feels like an intelligence level up jingle.
But that means it´ ending!
Usually hum along. Ita catchy!
My exact thought was the same as the video ended and the music played. I love these videos. Everything about them is just a great vibe.
The melody makes me said, because the video is over, and it will take some time for the next to be released. :(
"We grant you the rank of Nation, but do not give you a seat on this Council."
"Thats outrageous! It's unfair! How can you be a Nation without being on the Council?!"
"Go home, young Tuscarora."
I was searching for this commment
-The Romans of the western world
-Name one of their nations "Seneca"
Coincidence? I think not!
Our name is not Seneca that is your peoples word for us. We are Onöndowa’ga (people of the hill)
@@maggillaguerrilla830 Do you know how the name Seneca came to be? Did non-native people try to pronounce Onondowa'ga and got Seneca, or someone thought that Seneca juat sounds cool?
@@maggillaguerrilla830 it was a joke :/
Zqppy they were just clarifying, don’t take it harshly.
A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
Dew itt
"I am the longhouse"
You stupid little astro droid
General Kenobi
I honestly love both you and HC, but I'm starting to lean more and more towards K&G because of the frequency in which they upload
HC's only problem is he takes a LONG time to make a video (probably because he works alone), like for this video we had to wait 40+ days
I think the North American natives are some of the most underrated civilizations ever. I live near Cahokia, and have just recently started learning about the huge and powerful economy of the Mississippians. People look at Monks Mound and see a pile of dirt rather than the center of one of the greatest financial empires in history.
Because they are trying to destroy the people. They are being Judged for doing so.
Love learning about Native histories. Always cool/sad to think the land we may be on held civilizations we’ll never see
They literally are still here. Black Americans 😂 delusional people @@ericsilver9401
This is legit the most peaceful and ecological society that existed. The complexity is so amazing and it worked extremely well. Obviously nothing is perfect but as you stated most indigenous American cultures even if the "tech" isn't "advanced", the political and philosophical culture was EXTREMELY advanced frankly light-years beyond anything similar in Europe. It's so so so so upsetting how much is lost and we have so much to learn from them
They are the Black Americans before colonist and their poc lap dogs. @@maggot1917
Best video I've ever seen on the Iroquois. Thanks for releasing this.
Omg it’s you! Mr Beast I love you!!!
@@notacaulkhead it mr. BEAt not beast 😂
@@sugarspice5692 I think that was a joke
@@unchartedsteppes7138 i think it was a tyop
@@TheRealFiveNameIt's a pretty common meme to call him Mr. Beast.
They basically told Tuscarora "you are on this council, but we do not grant you the rank of master"
It's more the other way around though. They were granted the rank of master but could not sit on the council.
@@Jakromha ^^^^^^
@@Jakromha ^^^^^^^ x2
"We grant you the rank of member, but you are not on this council"
Anakin is a little angry
Ah yes, the Iroquois Confederacy, one of the greatest achievements of Julius Ceasar during the Roman era.
Still wish Pompey won. He formed the Twelth Colonies after all. Thats a great achievement.
I couldn't help but hear that in Sparatus' voice.
"We have dismissed that claim."
Careful there, some idiot will think what you said is true
What do you mean its not true?
But it is true
This lacks warring squares.
@ResistCom ceasar is a square. So no
Red squares of debate are more interesting than red squares of death.
@ResistCom rectangles are units, squares are stupid.
This made me crack up. well said. :P
*no rectangles were harmed*
This is very underrated. This video could easily be played throughout history classes and they'd still learn more than I did through elementary to high-school. thanks Historia Civilis!
Born in 91 here, they didn't teach us anything remotely close to this in public school.
History started with the Greeks, then it talked about European innovations & exploration, touched on the Atlantic Slave Trade, colonization, the Thanksgiving story, American revolution, further colonization towards the west with natives harrassing pilgrims on the trails, then the modern age
Yeah, I grew up in the heart land of what used to be their territory, and I had no idea about any complexities of their system. We learned the proper name of the confederacy, we learned that they were matriarchal, and we were only that the Onondaga were the "fire keepers" because they were in the middle.
Nothing about a council except that it existed, no idea that Seneca and mohawk were so big (the maps we were shown had each tribe at about the same size as the others) and the rest was fanboying about one chief that lived and ruled around where the school is, and has become our mascot. It's actually kinda ironic that we are told so little about how this guy lived and his society but we parade him around on banners and other school logos.
I am wacthing this for history now! I am so happy to learn about this!
I grew up in the finger lakes region of New York, so we learned about it in school. They taught it decently if my memory serves me right.
Absolutely
What did Palpatine say when he met Mr. Clinton?
"DeWitt."
As an Oneida Native American and a huge fan of your channel I greatly appreciate this video. I study Roman history myself so that’s how I got into your awesome content. This video was a great surprise.
O
As a follower of this channel, and being ionkwanonhshón:ni myself, I was surprised to see you post a video of our political system. Overall, I was really impressed at how much effort was put into this, how accurate, and how easy to follow it is. Although there is one thing in need of correcting.
1. The Mohawk, seneca, and onondaga are all elder siblings. The Cayuga, and oneida are younger siblings. There is no in between of young, younger, younger-er, youngest siblings.
Also, this system of the clan mothers appointing many chiefs, and being able to strip them of their titles solved the problem of corrupt leaders. As 50 chiefs are put in place to be representatives of their people, not one man with all the power who can, and will be corrupted (as history has shown again and again)
Any questions, I would be glad to answer, as we are still here, and this political system is still used today in grand councils, meetings, school debates, and during ceremony (although slightly different in each setting)
Again, I’m impressed with the video, and happy that people are being educated on onkwehón:we people.
Shakoia’tenhawì:tha , turtle clan, Mohawk nation, Kahnawà:ke
Also, the Mohawks did not create the confederacy. Tekanawí:ta (the peace maker) went nation to nation, quelling wars and convinced the people that uniting under one house would make us stronger. The mohawks were the first ones the peace maker went to, as we were the worst of the warring nations. It started with us, but we did not create the system. The creation comes from a joint effort of all 5 nations, and the peace maker.
"Also, this system of the clan mothers appointing many chiefs, and being able to strip them of their titles solved the problem of corrupt leaders. As 50 chiefs are put in place to be representatives of their people, not one man with all the power who can, and will be corrupted"
Does this not just make the clan mothers a single person with all the power (at least within a clan) who can be corrupted? Is that ever abused or are there other cultural/political practices that mitigate that?
One question that I had was what happens when Onondaga makes a proposal, how is that considered by the other nations? Is it first passed to the Mohawk and Seneca nations, and then finally considered by the Oneida and Cayuga nations? If so, then what if the Oneida and Cayuga disagreed with the other three?
So it's all based upon longhouse symbolism, that makes a lot of sense actually.
Shekoli HC! I hail from the Oneida nation, and overall wanted to express how much I enjoyed this video from you. My only correction I could give is that the mother of the clan acts more as a spiritual guide to the people of the clan. I suppose the closest thing I could compare it to is the Pontifix Maximus, rather then a pseudo head of state. That's not to play down her role at all. In each and every clan her guidance and wisdom is to be taken very seriously. I think in order to better understand the role of clan mother, its best to look into the religion our nations share. Once again, loved the video, and thank you for all your hard work!
I was wondering if it could be compared to the Japanese Emperor in terms of practical function, but... that's probably going too far in some ways, and not far enough in other ways.
@@MrCantStopTheRobot yes, that is more apt then you think. A lot like a modern monarch in function, but without the kind of baggage that such a word carries.
@@maxwheaton5865 But she still appoints the representatives to the council and change him out, when she thinks he is not doing a good job, right?
@@mweskamppp Exactly what I was going to reply. If she can appoint and change the representatives as she pleased, she is pretty much the boss around. Doesn't matter if she is actually a good boss, of a wise one, or competent, or religious. The fact is, she is the boss, right?
@@maxwheaton5865 May I ask how you guys feel about America, centuries after the mindfuckery that was the 7 year's war and the War of American Independence?
Is Caesar going to pacify this strange tribe too?
Of course
As soon as his bridge is ready.
Meazzano "pacify"
Hanno
Must be a pretty long bridge.
Pax Romana is now on Atlantic Ocean. Please stand by
This message brought to you by the Tribe of Millers. The Tribe of Millers uses only the finest grains. True native bread, for true natives.
Hmmm....
In session today, no assemblies in the vicinity, no gaming, no prostitution. May all the gods bless our sacrosanct chief Gaius Julius Caesar.
@@MrAnonymousRandom gaming
bruh! I cannot get over how each and every Historia Civilis episode is absolutely top class
I would absolutely love to see you do more videos on the precolumbian americas, especially for Mesoamerica and the Andes: Both had thousands of years or urban civilization with complex governments, there's every bit as much interesting stuff about them as Mesopotamia, classical antiquity, or ancient china, but they rarely get discussed.
I hope he mentions the Mississippians one day too.
The problem is we dont have the anywhere near the level of information and written histories from mesoamerica as we do from, say, Ancient China or Ancient Greece or even Egypt.
@@MGustave Yeah, fuck the spaniards, they burned or disregarded most of it because "muh christianity"
@@alejandrogorricho4791 there was a lot of European explorers and archeologists who tried to discovered and preserve the old Americas tradition and stories... but were denied, Manly P. Hall explains a lot of the customs and traditions of the old world you should look up his lectures.
@@MGustave There's definitely a reason for that... the colonizers didn't want them to remember their own histories; they wanted the lies they spun about them to be true, so they removed most of the evidence to the contrary. The Spanish are on record for burning a great number of the Aztec codices, destroying libraries and archives, banning languages and writing systems, etc.
"Six to ten nuclear..."
:O
"...families."
Oh okay we're good then.
*DIE COLONIALIST BASTARDS! DIE!*
[Mushroom clouds rise over most of the eastern seaboard]
Peter Smythe Thank you for making me laugh.
Dear god, it's a weapon of mass destruction!
Nuclear Hiawatha VS Nuclear Gandhi
@Heroin Bob there goes new amsterdam again
Literally rewatched this whole video cause its so interesting. By far my favorite. Its exciting to see something so complicated yet balanced and I love it
Balanced... As All Things Should Be
What an incredible civilization. Thank you for telling us about them.
they fucking suck in civ 5
Apparently not incredible enough to have a written language.
@@Jesse-fd5bv Sid Meier Civ 3 is literally why I've been watching this channel for the last week and how landed in this comment section. Video says Iroquois, I think Hiawatha. And picture cartoon face.
_Caesar, would you please move your troops, they are stealing our chickens and annoying our women._
@@marcrolle4601 epic
@@marcrolle4601 humans are an incredible species? apparently not incredible enough to have wings
yeah wikipedia is great, but have you tried *_Historia Civilis?_*
Look in the descriptions
Anne Isopod look in the description
Pffff *Historia Civilis* beats porn.
Anne Isopod 5k9
Anne Isopod Look in the description
(keep it going guys)
Fascinating video! Being from Europe, I know absolutely nothing about Native American history. We never were taught anything about it in school. It's super interesting, and I hope you can do more videos in this series.
what do europeans learn in school?
SemiDecent probably about Europe
@@soulofglebb As far as my own country ,England, not very much
I'm from Spain and we learn from prehistoric period to modern day, over all the years of our basic education. But what we focus on is what makes actual cultural relevant things, like Ancient Egypt and Greece, then Rome, then all the medieval stuff (with a special focus on the muslim caliphate and La Reconquista) and so on. Sadly, America was not influential at all until the last century, unless you count our past of discovering, plunder and conquering their lands and people and forcing them to be Christians (I wish be got teach a little more about their tribes and civilisation at that moment). And only because it made us very rich and powerful. Also we learn pretty much nothing from Asia, Australia or Africa, because they were irrelevant for most part of our history.
I guess each nation teaches their own vision of history, ignoring all that it thinks is not relevant to their culture or past.
"Wow, as a European, Native American culture is so interesting!"
*Commits genocide against native groups around the world*
I'm from Canada, and that last line hit hard. In school we are taught about the way of life of the First Nations, but it's always in the past tense. We know that they still exist today hidden in reserves, but they are all lumped together under blanket terms and we never get to appreciate what aspects of their culture have endured through this all. It speaks volume to how those nations have been pushed aside and silenced in the colonization process.
"Longhouse where the most sophisticated structures on the continent"
Mesoamerica: "Am I a joke to you?"
They were the most sophisticated in social development, not architecture
The indiginous peoples of mesoamerica would be hard-pressed to build such large structures that easily withstood brutal winters with toasty ease, some of which still exist today in dense forest. Not everyone can appreciate achievements in simplicity and longevity, though. If complication equalled advance, Rube Goldberg machines would be the pinnacle of human development.
@@MomMom4Cubs why would they need to? Also, can you enlighten me on the architecture of the Iroquois pyramids? Since we are comparing...
@@stonem0013 feel like the Maya to grow and thrive for thousands of years, hell bring it down to even 500 years, in a tiny location in comparison to their large numbers they'd have to be doing something right in terms of society.
@@krono5el sure, but the Iroquis seemed to have a form of deliberative democracy, feminism, etc which are very modern ideas
Completely unexpected, but damn if this didn't seriously change my understanding of the Haudenosaunee. I think most Americans even today just think that all native americans followed a singular chief, like I did. Great video as always!
Some tribes/cultures did.
Daniel Gazizov I remember being suprised as well when I first learned about the Haudenosaunee as well. I think part of that is the mind set of homogenizing all First Nation's/Native American societies. Because even though I know better and know they had many different and diverse civilizations, It's hard not just paint them with one broad brush because thats how I learned about them in grade school.
I think we should keep in mind that pretty much every political system ever is more complex than "one head leader deciding everything" (including "absolute monarchies"). One chief systems probably did exist in some tribes at some times (though I do know that for instance peace chief/war chief distinctions are common in many tribes), but even then that's an over simplification of how power worked. Chiefs could be elected, could be temporary, could have councils to work with, could have limited functions, could compete with religious leaders, etc. Every political system has unique aspects and typical social studies classes below the college level (and plenty of classes at college levels) way over simplify how these systems actually work.
Daniel Gazizov yeah Indian tribes sometimes had really complex government system I am not sure about the others though.
But extra credits already did a vid about this topic, you should check that channel too
I’ve got a lot to think about now when I colonise the New World in EU4.
Why? Burn the heathens and conquer New World.
Thats exactly what I was thinking, "damn feels bad wiping such an inspired government from the face of the earth, but damn it all if it aint easy"
This made me want to try an EU4 playthrough as the Iroquois!
That smallpox blanket myth needs to die
@@thatguy6919 Just make one of them a puppet state and protect it forever just to keep their heritage alive:)
As a Mohawk of Akwesasne and armchair historian, this is a great representation of our ancient people. Good studying, thank you
As a curious question, how do things work nowadays? Since the native american population was crushed so much how much remains of the old system today? Or did it modernize?
This taught me more than my 13 years of NY public school ever did about the Haudenosaunee. In fact, I don't think I'd ever heard the term "Haudenosaunee" before this, only ever Iroquois.
As a Native American I’m really happy this video is out.
So you're an indian?
@@twanvanderdonk2504 You're ridiculous.
@@pedrojpinto How so?
@@twanvanderdonk2504 He is a native American, not an Indian 😑
@@mario7049 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure they are commonly known around the world as Indians. If you do correct me, please cite some sources disproving this. In my native language, for example, there is no other word for them than "Indiaan".
So the Tuscarora were the Puerto Rico of the Iroquois Confederacy
The Tusarora were the Puerto Rico of the Romans of the Americas.
Except they were immigrants. Not colonized.
@@petersmythe6462 they were not immigrants. they were refugees. there lands were taken and homes burned after a nasty war with the brits.
@@acebalistic1358 There actually still are Tuscarora in North Carolina. But they are not recognized at the state level because the other tribe down there, the Lumbee, insist the Tuscarora are merely a splinter group from their own and do not want to share any power or benefits. And they can't get federal recognition either because the Tuscarora of New York have the political power to block any acknowledgement of the North Carolina band's legitimacy.
Essess Nine oh. Does nobody in our state government read a history textbook?!?!?
This is awesome! As an Oglala Lakota, this is one of the best pieces on tribal societies I've ever seen. Maybe the story of the Hopewell, Powhatan Confederacy, or Confederated Lakota tribes
You're Lakota. Wouldn't you be in a really good position to do a good crash course on the Lakota people? 🤔
I would 100% watch if I saw a link. 😊
I would love to learn what impact their so-called "mourning wars" practice had on their society as a whole.
Especially as it grew in intensity during the smallpox epidemic and the beaver wars.
It seems crazy to me that there are no videos at all on youtube as of now discussing their very unique warfare and assimilation practices.
you should make one
you most likely know more about it than the average joe since you cared enough to request it. if there's no path in front of you then make one, as they say
That moment when you're in a civil war in Europe and some Native Americans from the future suddenly show up
SGT Mango The sunset invasion, right?
I hate that feature.
Beware the Horde!
Is that a reference to some game or something?
@@maxmustermann1455 EU4 I think
CK2
I've always loved this channel, as an indigenous person of North America I'm so happy to finally see representation of our history on social media, thank you so much
@İnsan many native Americans have mainstream American names. LaDonna Harris is a famous member of my tribe but she sounds like she could be of African American origin or southern American. Names are names, yes they are tied to culture but most indigenous names are in our language, and we translate it to the closest variation possible into another language to which it is not meant for (Richard Yellowtail, John Mankiller, even my name Laughing Storm is a play on words of my Comanche name)
@İnsan That's because we natives were forced to take on a different language & different identity
@@commiemeth Its not just the British/American name adaptations but also the French too. I'm Ojibwe and our family adopted the lastname of Lariviere
@@fernandoarista3302 But we in Europe take names from other cultures and languages, too. Some languages are disappearing. My first name Michael originates from near east hebraic and means "Who is like god?" my last name Weskamp is from the local language that is disappearing with my generation mostly "kamp" is a cleared and fenced piece of land "Wes" comes from wieske = meadow. my german area speaks originally plattdeutsch what is grammatically and by words closer to Netherlands than to Hochdeutsch. (Netherlands separated from the "holy roman empire of german nation" after the 30 years war in 1648). Hochdeutsch originates in the more elevated parts of the country in the south and has totally different dialects. Actually the border between south and north german dialects is quite exactly the borderline of ancient celtic and german influence.
I've watched this video many times. It's one of my favorite videos on this channel. The way the historical information is weaved with the image and sound is nothing short of a work of art.
Makes me wonder how much we learned in school in NY about the Iroquois and what they really were.
wow I didn't know Rome has a territory in the Americas
Interestingly, Rome, NY is in what was once Oneida territory (and sits in Oneida County).
It was a province formed by the senator Seneca, hence the name.
vesteel They've always had, isn't this common knowledge?
vesteel Well, the Founding Fathers of the USA wanted the country to be the spiritual successor of the Roman Empire. So yeah.
Not to mention, it was an Albanian colonist at the time
Please keep on with these, the gold standard of historical videos anywhere on RUclips
Great video! I remember often hearing how the founding fathers admired the Iroquois Confederacy, specifically Benjamin Franklin.I can see why. This is brilliant constitutional federalism. I can see how the structure of senate versus house of representatives was an attempt to create the kind of balance that the Iroquois had.
Amazing piece! As a new Canadian, this really helps me understand and appreciate being here more! Please make more Indigenous political videos! Keep it up!
I would hesitate to call it a Democracy. Power in a democracy is, ideally, bottom-up. The people choose the leaders. Here, it is top-down. The leaders choose the leaders. In addition, birth-right plays an important role here. It resembles democracy in its beureaucratic structure, yes. Even in ancient Greece, where only land owning males could hold office, the structure was still bottom-up.
Tamal Paul you could call it a republic
The video skips over how clan mothers were chosen. They were selected by the residents of a longhouse from among the elder women that lived there. Of course, it also neglects to mention that only a select few lineages of clan mothers had the power to appoint Grand Councilors. That privilege, however, was not guaranteed, and a clan mother or her entire lineage could be stripped of that right and the seat re-assigned to another clan mother.
Bottom up can only work in a highly educated society which is why we see so much top down. The major flaw with democracy is it's entire dependency on the critical thinking skills and intelligence of the "bottom" When your poorest, least educated people start choosing leaders, they choose the ones who promise them a million dollars each and free beer and pizza every Friday. I've seen it a hundred times. Next thing you know your daughter's knocked up and there's money missing off the dresser...
@@tsarchasm1499 A republic is a country without a monarch. Too vague.
Democracy just means a nation that decides things via voting, there's no other requirement. there's no such thing as a "pure" democracy either. the people rarely ever have any say or power, even in the modern era. you can call it a top down democracy or a bottom up democracy if you like, but it's still democratic.
First time listened about the Iroquois was through Morgan's book "Ancient Society" and Engels "Origins of Family, private property and state". Since then I am very interested in their history and society...thanks a lot for this video!
Thank you for this video. It does us natives a great service knowing we weren't just savages as history & culture have portrayed us to be
@Wagner the Europeans were no better lol
@Wagner no better then a few European/asian nations
Out of all of your videos, this is far and away my favorite one and this is mainly because of how unusual the subject is compared to your other videos.
Other lesser known subjects covered with this level of depth would be absolutely magnificent (its the lesser known histories that I love to throw into my lessons and these videos are the best way for me to do that).
Love the featuring of some Native American history, any chance we'll see a look at some of the other peoples?
maybe something about Polish Golden Liberty ^_^
As a Lithuanian, I would love for it to be explored by a third party (neutral historian) since I can never find unbiased opinions of our rudimentary Seimas (Sejm? in polish?) that elected kings and how that was a good idea abused till it ruined the country (The lithuanian side of the story) or was it flawed from the begining (The consensus reached by quite a few polish sources i've found in english). Since I can't find as many fail-safes like Hodonoshone system discussed in this video.
I'd love to see more about the Haida and other Pacific Northwest tribes.
Noo plz, i want to see roman boxes smashing into other boxes :(
@@nicholasmartin9090 I've been waiting for some content on the Pacific Northwest Indians
Super good video! I know next to nothing about Haudenosaunee as I'm from the uk and it was never taught in school, but the intricate political landscape described is very interesting! Keep up the good work :)
Entity i live in the same country as the Haudenoşaunee and i knew absolutely nothing about them until now
You learn about them a ton in New York itself.
I love your Rome content, but if you keep pumping out stuff like this, it takes your channel to the next level. Keep it up, you're awesome dude.
This channel had rekindled my love for history. Thank you for what you're doing and keep up the good work.
This video made my day. I really love the historical edutainment that you and other content creators produce, and I find all of the history interesting. However, as someone Native to North America, I rarely see our history reflected on these channels; they tend to be rather Eurocentric. Even when Indigenous peoples come up, we're often dealt with in trite and contrived was, and only in relation to our interactions with Europeans. To that end, it's really refreshing to see a video where an Indigenous culture is taken seriously and looked at on its own terms.
I'm English, have no particular connection (that I know of) to the Americas, let alone any Native group, but, beginning a few years ago when I started to learn a little about the history (in broad terms) of Native peoples in North America, I began to feel a pretty strong connection to them and their suffering. I generally find the whole tale of colonisation and loss tragic and heartbreaking, so it's wonderful, as you say, to see not just Native history being touched on in a great channel like this, but to see it touched on in a positive light in a way not connected to European interaction or conquest. I'd heard of the Iroquois Confederacy, but knew nothing of this fascinating and pretty impressive system.
@I sell air Wow that’s awesome I really envy you having such incredible history in your back yard (not that England doesn’t have great history haha just that I envy your access to Native history)! Shame there’s not much info available; I think a big reason Native peoples are being, and have been, so mistreated is a lack of understanding. Do you know any Native people yourself?
This is great!!!
I love all the little quirks of the governments of old civilizations. Imagine how many different forms of government were practiced in the Americas.
And that was effectively their postapocalyptic government, after 95% of the population had been killed by disease. Apparently there had also been some really major cities that all had ceased to exist by that point.
And all our film makers can come up with are scavenging canibals.
I'm astonished that you actually found this information. I never even knew such details were known about the Iroquois.
*Haudenoshonee
@@hagamapama wow you're so cool I also watched the video
The tribes all still exist today, as far as I’m aware, they’re just not united under one long house anymore.
The oral histories are still maintained in Haudenosaunee communities today
@@Hhhhhh-sz9ud That is fundamentally wrong. The Haudenosaunee government actually does still exist, and each nation remains a part of it. The Haudenosunee simply lack territory continuousness, with its authority being found only on reservations or dedicated lands.
In schools in New York, this is taught all over the place even through high school. I personally remember learning in depth about each tribe and celebrating them.
This is wonderful I’m glad you made this. I almost forgot.
Being British, this video was a revelation. I had heard of a few points about the Hodenausaunee (Studied by Benjamin Franklin who introduced certain ideas from them, with ideas from other constitution, into his proposed Constitution), but I never knew about the details. Why has no one produced more information about them?
I’m from New York, and I honestly didn’t know the Iroquois were such a mystery elsewhere. Some of these comments are taking me by surprise. Granted if you look at the shape of my state, it’s almost exactly the borders of the original confederacy, and it’s probably because we have that connection that we do the Iroquois just about every year in school from kindergarten to 6th grade. It could easily be ignored in the rest of the world. Still, if elementary school textbooks have material, I’m sure you could find some with a little searching
Information exists, just unless you grew up in New York or maybe some surrounding areas you’d never be exposed to it
You say that the smaller nations were genius for setting up the ability to veto any of the Cayuga and Seneca tribes proposals, But I would be astounded to find if this happened often, regardless of the "ability" to veto, they would still be going against something that the 2 strongest and largest nations agreed upon.
The likely case is that those types of issues would be solved by unofficial negotiations behind the longhouse. it wouldn't even have to include threats, merely an implicit idea that bigger nation can make your life easier or horrible outside of system, given how not every single interaction between nations could possibly be regulated. The extent probably depended on how religious arguing leaders were.
Keep in mind the origin of the tribes was in a big move to establish peace and the nation with the power to veto had been very strong militarily at the time. They may be smaller, but they were a strong nation.
@@Saeronor now i'm gonna have to get you to agree to this deal here
Got the Nation's names wrong here my guy.
I was completely surprised by this flip in your otherwise habitual content. I really loved it, and hope you keep bringing up more cultures and political systems. Absolutely fascinating topic, great work!
As a Cayugan from western New York where there are plenty of Iroquois people, I've never heard "Iroquois' pronounced with the French pronunciation in conversation. Most people from my area pronounce it more like "Ear-a-coy".
How can Historia Civilis videos be so educational and yet relaxing ?
Absolutely fascinating
I absolutely loved this video!!! I'm from Italy so I wasn't taught much about the peoples and customs of the North American continent when I was in school, and this has truly been a wonderful journey :D
It seems very similar to the old swiss confederacy.
This^
I guess the phrase "The Old Swiss of the Western World" didn't have the same ring to it.
Please never stop making these videos. Thank you for educating me on this fascinating piece of American history!
im glad that you decided to take a break from rome and do something different and still very interesting.
Your channel is a hidden gem. I`m glad to stumble upon it.
As a german its interesting to learn about the details of parts of history that are at best mentioned in school
Like
I remember in 5th Grade we studied the Lenape and I could have sworn that the longhouse characteristic was exclusive to them.
Thanks for expanding my mind about the subject.
Longhouses were pretty common structures throughout the northeast portion of North America, though there were architectural variants among different cultures. The largest longhouses are associated with Haudenosaunee. Archaeologically, we know of one from the 14th century that was more than 300-feet long, though 100-feet long ones are more typical. For the Lenape, their longhouses were usually only built for a handful of families, rather tha dozens.
Incidentally, for most of the 1700s, the Lenape were a protectorate of the Iroquois after being displaced from the East Coast by colonists. The Iroquois granted them land in the Ohio Valley (which they had recently conquered in the Beaver Wars and needed help holding). The some historical accounts by Euro-Americans traveling and trading in the Ohio Valley talk about the Seven Nations, by which they meant the five Iroquoian nations that made up the confederacy, plus the Lenape and the Shawnee. As protectorates, these two had a lower status in the confederacy than even the Tuscarora, but they did have two Iroquoian respresentatives, known to the English as the "Half-Kings," who served as the liaison between their communities and the Grand Council. At least until one of them went rogue during the French-and-Indian War.
@@Reedstilt Thank you for this awesomely brilliant response.
Interesting stuff, I live on a border town with the Tonawanda-Seneca reservation so it was really cool to learn about their old system. I'd say about 30% of my school is Seneca Native and a lot of my friends are so I've always wondered about their old system. I've always found it something hard to find good information out but this was really awesome! Great job.
I love your passion for these and you branching out to cover more topics with your videos. Keep up the great content!
Also you missed the fact that they started a music career as acid-jazz band Jamiroquois.
So are they called Jamiroquois because they come to a consensus about their music?
Great video! It was very cool learning about a Native American Nation on your channel.
My favorite history channel on YT! Keep up the good work.
I love this channel because I feel like I actually am learning from your videos. Thank you so much
I learned something interesting today!! Thankyou so much for this amazing video, I have always been curious about the politics of America's First Peoples but never known where to look to find information as rich as this! My upper midwest high school didn't teach us much about the Native people's lives before European arrival nor did they teach us any of their inner workings or social structures. This was super intriguing, and educational, thank you!
Extra Credits did an exelent video of the creation of the confederacy but this explain the actual inerworkings, its so good!
My favorite video series featuring round people meets my favorite video series featuring square people!
SO good. I wish there were far more films like this. We know so little about the indigenous nations of the Americas and could benefit so much from them. Thank you.
That is absolutely incredible. Growing up in the finger Lakes, we learned quite a bit of Haudenosaunee history, but we never delved this deep into the politics.
I am a fantasy writer and this channel gives me so much inspiration.
Same here!
Me too :D
I stopped playing "Hello Kitty: Island Adventure" for this. Worth it.
I took my lessons today, please give my family back soon as possible!
I can’t get over your channel. Thank you so much
Just coming back to show gratitude. Thank you for sharing your gift. Such a strong body of work that has been so impactful to my way of thinking.
Your videos are my favorite to watch while taking a dump
There's a bit of change in energy here, i like it! although i am a bit triggered you had pictures of actual people in the beginning and not squares
OMG This is the 1st video that I have watched. This was beautifully done and well researched. Most importantly it was simple to follow and comprehend. I will definitely watch more videos and support this channel in any way that I can. Keep up the great work.
I continually revisit this video because it has expanded my mind so much
Would love to see some more Native American politics if you’re up for it! Great video!
Excellent Work
I've never been presented a more thorough overview of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy and I am a history buff living in former Seneca territory.
One can easily see the parallels in the Moiety governance and how it impacted the founding fathers in establishing a bicameral Congress.
The Senior Moiety is similar to the Senate
The Junior Moiety is similar to the House of Representatives
The Onondaga Moeity is a rough parallel to the Executive branch
Not exact, but the framework is there.
What? The founding fathers got the idea of a bicameral congress from the UK, which had a bicameral parliament...
Absolutely fascinating and nothing I was aware of! Keep giving us more, HC!
This is exactly the type of video I was looking for to complete a personal project.
You rock.
Nice one. The Haudenosaunee system was very subtly designed; and had an influence upon the nascent American system of 'checks and balances'.
Pan-whatever--"Actually", the existence of either doesn't disprove the influence of both. Early American elites did have an affection for the Romans, to be sure (mostly due to the popular history of Gibbon); but they had dealings with the Haudenosaunee in business fairly often, so they were familiar with the system, even though they exoticized it somewhat.The earliest incarnation of America was in fact laid out by "Articles Of Confederation"; emulating the Haudenosaunee system.
This is gooooooooood
xd
Eyyyyyyyyyyyy
This carefully balanced system of small and large nations reminds me of early Switzerland and their efforts to maintain a balance of power between the rural cantons and the city cantons.
this is still one of my favorite videos of yours. thanks.
This was amazing. As an individual who has little to no knowledge of Native American history and culture and has been raised with the stereotypical notions of them as backwards, this video was so refreshing and forced me to challenge my perception of them. What an advanced system of governance the haudenosaunee had (including nations playing the role of check and balancing each other out)!