In Search for the BEST Wireless Power Coil! (Experiment) My Coils can act like Capacitors?
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
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In this video we will be having a closer look at my wireless power coils in order to optimize them. That means I will show you exactly how to measure the most important characteristics of any coil and how to turn these values into the coil quality which I should keep as big as possible for my wireless power transmission. Along the way we will learn about LCR meters, how coils act at higher frequencies and ultimately (maybe) create my best wireless power coil so far. Let's get started!
Websites which were shown/used in the video:
www.tek.com/document/applicat...
www.hioki.com/global/learning...
www.electronics-notes.com/art...
www.datatec.de/media/pdf/7c/4...
meettechniek.info/passive/ind...
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0:00 We need the Coil Quality!
1:22 Intro
2:08 High Frequency Inductor Problem
3:55 Real Coil Explained (LCR)
5:00 DIY Coil Measurements
7:33 DIY Coil Quality Analysis & New Test
8:21 New Litz Wire Coil
9:45 Final Test & Verdict 
Наука
Nice work! 23% power efficiency is a lot more than I would have expected out of this kind of setup.
Thank you!
@@greatscottlab Arre welcome bhai
It is huge jump from 5% to 23%
Absolutely required a tremendous amount of work
Salute to great scott
And New great scott intro is nice
Much appreciated!
Great video. I'm amazed at the level of mathematical theory used in your videos. And how easily you manage it. You're one of the few you-tubers that excel at both theory and common practice. It confuses me, just sitting here watching you . But I do enjoy what you do, it's very educational 😉
Thanks for the feedback :-)
Bro, I need pen and paper to make heads or tails of it, and even then I gotta double check everything. The editing makes it look easy, but it's approachable if you give yourself time to erase things and shuffle them around a couple times. Then it should "click" in your head and feel awesome, especially if you can see picture of it on an oscilloscope and touch the knobs yourself. You can do it!
lets appreciate the fact that he did all this to make a video for us!
My pleasure :-) It is awesome to have this job where I can freely experiment and share it with others ;-)
@GreatScott! - My research on this topic indicates that you can greatly extend the power transfer distance by interposing PASSIVE COILS (NX) with the same resonant frequency _near or in between_ the transmitter (TX) and receiver (RX). In fact, one paper on the subject said that the power transfer Coupling Efficiency (CE) improves as the *square* of the number N of coils. (This strikes me as being very analogous to the case with a Phased Array improving as the number of elements squared.)
For Inductively Coupled Coils, the equation for *ideal* Coupling Efficiency would be like CE = 1 - (1/N^2). Thus for just 1 coil, CE = 0 (you can't transfer power at all if there is just one coil), while for N=2, CE = 0.75, for N=3, CE = 0.89, for N=4, CE = 0.9375, for N=5, CE = 0.96, etc. That equation indicates that with an infinite number of coils, Coupling Efficiency would be perfect, 1.0, unity.
In reality, those numbers should be multiplied by your efficiency with your basic 2 coils, TX and RX, immediately adjacent to each other. The paper also spoke of creating a whole _mesh network_ of the passive coils, for very high CE anywhere within a whole house. I would love to see if you can reproduce those results, GreatScott... or anyone else!
Thank you for this video GreatScott, lots of information presented in an easy to handle way!
Glad it was helpful!
I never get bored while watching your videos on RUclips and pictures on Instagram. It always makes my day better... ❤️
Awesome :-)
@@greatscottlab please also make 4G and 5G antenna since it's very demand it today due to online learning 🤔 👌 👍
Fantastic, dude! Really amazing work! 😃
It's really interesting how physical differences in the used wire changes things!
Anyway, stay safe and creative there! 🖖😊
Love the animated intro - I wish there was a mashup with Take On Me 🙂
The real difficulty of the Q measurement is that it is the tangent of the phase angle. Because tangent function diverges at 90 degrees and you are measuring phase angles close to that value, you'll need to measure the phase angle very precisely, because even a small error in the angle will result in a big difference in the Q calculation.
Thanks, this video helped me perfect something similar that I've been working on. My difference is I used bare wire (that suspends itself) and have a continual source of voltage via a seebeck (coefficient) bouillon.
Hi,
will you try adding ferrite tiles on the back of the coil to redirect the B field to the front, like induction cooktop are made ?
Maybe next time ;-)
Would that work like a satellite dish for directing the signal better then using one on the receiver to increase reception?
Have you tried the experiment with a metal backing plate (pizza Pan?) behind the transmitting coil? Currently the energy is being transmitted in all directions from the coil. If you use a metal plate behind it you should have more energy directed to the receiving coil. This would be even more effective if the backing plate had a rim around it that would go around the circumference of the coil. Perhaps you could do a video trying different shapes of metal backing plate: flat, bowl shaped, parabolic, etc, or even tin foil shaped around the back 270 degrees of the coil with only the front side of the coil exposed in the intended direction of transmission.
I like those ideas. It is on my to do list :-)
I would have expected the induced currents in a backing plate would increase the losses, as the plate represents a shorted turn.
I have often wondered how contactless mobile phone charges manage to avoid such losses in the phone PCB copper earth plane.
Such coils are always operated in a resonant configuration, but at such low frequencies that the distance to the ground plane cannot be significant in terms of wavelength.
@@greatscottlab What about mismatched sending and receiving coils? Like to light up wireless LEDs? I guess this is where harmonics would come into play, tuning the sender resonant f to be a multiple of that of the little coils on the LEDs?
Ideally a parabolic dish on both sides would be the most efficient back reflector and you can get ones of about the size of the coils being used here at a junkyard by looking for an old satellite TV dish, but a backing plate would still makke a huge difference.
@@greatscottlab Did you took in consideration impedance of free air space? Another question what if coil is in conical spiral shape? And why u dont try to use one size for transmitter and another size for receiver ?
Regarding metal plate google "Investigation of the influence of a large steel plate on the magnetic field distribution of a magnetic proximity detection system". There are some tests done already.
Shocked, that Elektor Magazine is still around. It faded from my orbit just as 'Wireless World' had done similarly before it. Both, during 50 my years of interest.
Thought that hobby electronics had miniaturised into surface-mount oblivion. Your experiments demonstrating mind-blowing modern home lab equipment - so refreshing. Thanks.
Excellently comprehensive coverage of the topic !! No way did they get into anything near that level of information detail when I went to Electrical Engineering school !! THANKS !! ;)
Probably because EE school teachers were taught by the book and then taught by the book, rather than from personal experience and experimentation.
Only Great Scott will take time to investigate something like this on RUclips.
As a fellow electronics enthusiast i really appreciate your builds and videos.
Thanks for the feedback :-)
Really good video Scott! It worth the time I wake to 11PM right now ;)
Thanks for watching :-)
Congratulations more than 100 comments within 1 hour of you posting the video. This shows that your content was,is and will always be amazing. Keep it up!
Man your videos are always a masterpiece 👏. Thank you for this beautiful showcase of electronics I appreciate it 😃
My pleasure!
@@greatscottlab man thank you 😊
Great quality
+Great content
+Great proyects
+Great channel
= Great Scott
Thanks mate :-)
You are the great book that I'm never lazy to read.
And you give great motivation for lore
Happy to hear that!
Great video, as always, and really glad that Elektor are sponsoring you as they're much more relevant to electronics hobbyists than (not round) Space or the VPN companies that seem to sponsor a lot of stuff on RUclips...
Yep. I am happy to have them as sponsors. I try to stay away from VPNs and such for this particular reason that is has not much to do with electronics.
@@greatscottlab a true man of culture 👌
finally after waiting for so long an amazing video of great Scott, great work
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great as ever, looking forward to more of these kinds of videos
Glad to hear it!
The black and white , pencil stylized is very nice! Okay, I'm going to finish watching ✋
Grate, i really like the power stuff you do. But we are all wondering when you finally finish the spot welder thing.
Great video, great sponsor ! Quality all the way !
Much appreciated!
Great vid ! I love it when you do that kind of deeper research, super super interesting. Keep it up !
Thanks, will do!
You and your ideas are always great 👍🏻
Thank you so much 😀
9:19 nice whistle!
Hope this helps me with my wireless project
Thank you very much Scott for your Videos, I really do learn very much! Weiter machen :)
Sir I love your videos you are so intelligent and I hope you will be a great scientist one day 👍
Now that's a fancy intro I absolutely love it.
More videos like this please. This kind of videos that You discover some scientific stuff
Thanks for all your inspirational vids! Now you are at the coil section anyway, maybe it is an interesting project to create an Axial Flow Generator? That would be awesome!
Very helpful video. I liked it
Great Scott!! What have you done?! ;-) 1.6 Million! You are on your way! Thanks for all the "Great" Videos!! :-)
Thanks for watching :-)
killing it as always sir thank you so much!!!!
Thanks :-)
Love Your metode
New intro is on point.
You should try some more neatly wound coils to reduce the parasitic inductance and increase Q, styles to try include solenoid, pancake, spider, and basket weave.
Loving the New Intro😀😀
I love the new intro!
Thanks :-)
Perfect video, as always :) insightful knowledge
great tool to have!
Thanks for uploading great content.
It's my pleasure
Love the new intro!
Change thickness and length
Thickness increases and length decreases
Make one big and other small
Very nice!
I bought a bunch of pre-made wireless leds and have used several in my action figures as weapons lights or a scale flashlight and in flame effects to illuminate them but i need a much better coil to get some usable range.
Although I don't understand it, such great content, just wish your videos were a bit longer honestly, I hear how YT tells creators to keep them short, well I don't think those of us that really enjoy this kind of content care much for shot videos, pack in the details!!! Thanks sir!
Thank you very much
Best regards from qatar 🇶🇦
It was very useful video.
Great work so far. I’ll bet that flat coils with more surface area would be more efficient. 🤔
Did you try to use some ferrite material inside and outside of your 2 coils ? Could they concentrate more of the magnetic field and increase efficiency ?
Can we try to have compensation circuit for both sides?
Or maybe we can try capacitive wireless power transfer next time! My undergraduate thesis is about CPT, and I found that theoretically we can reach about 60%+ at 1MHz frequency at large distances using a double-sided LC compensation circuit .
Woah love the new intro
I like your new intro. Didn't hate the old one. Just acknowledging the new one. 😲
Can you please provide detailed information on how you stretched the electron beam horizontally? (Your previous video on turning CRT TV into a crude oscilloscope)
Is there any data (done by experts or enthousiast) to compare it ? Like what is the more efficient wireless power coil possible, and how exactly ?
I'm also thinking that putting a sort of bowl or satellite dish better emitter/receiver could improve a bit more the efficiency !
Amazing channel!!
Excelente! 👍
0:28 I see he knows about unforeseen consequences
Amazing...
Thank you! Cheers!
Could adding a "core" between the windings shape the field and increase coupling? How else could you do directed power transfer / beam forming? What about the power at a multiple of the wavelength at a different node? Could you tap more power from the other side, reflected about the field symmetry line?
All this as was shown is happening in the Near Field of the coils, at a distance much less than ONE wavelength, so the usual assumptions about multiple wavelengths do not apply.
@@YodaWhat thank you!
great !!!
What about using a conductive material that has high Q at high frequencies? Are there any such conductive materials available?
amazing!
Thanl you for this video
But what are the details for your last wire that you used?
The diameter, number of turns ....
Very interesting, I wonder how well silver wire would go.
I did strip out an old anti shoplifting system, which used as coils long lengths of 20mm by 2mm thick aluminium strip, wound into large coils, with an insulating tape layer on the one side of the coil. Self supporting in the case, and the wide strip made for very low loss, though of course the higher capacitance made the self resonant frequency lower. However, seeing as it ran at audio frequencies for the most part, and at around 50W in the transmit coils, this was not too much of a problem. You could simply use a thick self adhesive foam tape on the one side, instead of the thin polyamide they used, and get a much better coil performance. Also wind the coil with a small offset per winding, so they do not fully overlap, so as to have a zig zag strip coil.
Brilliant video thankyou :)
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for the video on Inductors and charging!
I am having a "debate" with some of my EE textbooks... which state that there is a "Back EMF" when charging an Inductor and a "Back EMF" when current is suddenly stopped. I don't have the proper equipment to do the testing but when I tried to look at this using an oscilloscope across the inductor I was not able to see any measurable "back emf" on the inductor when it was charging, but. there was a voltage drop.
Perhaps I am doing this wrong?
The other thing I don't understand is when I "suddenly cut the power" they call the electricity coming from the Inductor a "Back EMF", but in my testing, the voltage from the Inductor was the same as the source polarity.
Perhaps I am doing something wrong?
Are you going to look at impendence matching with air for both of the circuits next? Also, I assume that the shape of the coils that you are using takes into account not having a matching harmonic with the frequency of the circuit so that you don't start transmitting radio waves, but this experiment would be a good segue into basic radio transmission and reception and you could even demonstrate primitive AM transmission of Morse code or audio.
Have you tried a flat spiral coil? That will give you a more cone-shaped EM field instead of the double-hump shaped field emitted by the simple coil.
I might be too low on caffeine, but I didn't notice any method of impedance matching the load to the receive coil? Seems like measuring the short circuit current of the receive coil would actually decrease the current, lowering the magnetic field, and the breaking down the coupling of the coils. Maybe I didn't follow it exactly.
Amazing and satisfying new intro man. Really like it. I liked your previous one as well, but this one is clean and quick and does the job. Like everything you create, really big fan bro and thanks for teaching us so much and abundantly about so many things
With all this experience in winding and testing coil designs, maybe you could review and develop a metal detector design.
If I had to guess just spacing the windings into a cylindrical helix about 1 cm between the turns will ramp up the srf? Analogous to a Tesla coil primary which is a pancake or a spaced out helix.
There is a winding method for coils often referred to as "fast coil" or basket coil which basically tries to eliminate the parallel strands of wire as much as possible by having them cross at an angle as they are wound on a flat circular form. (2d donut)
Is this type of coil you speak of like a spider coil used for radio? (searching for basket and fast coil is problematic)
I always thought that the inductance is a measure specific to a coil and not varies with frequency. I also used to calculate it with its physical dimensions (length, diameter), number of turns and core permeability.
It is new for me that L is different at various frequencies.
XL on the other hand (impedance) is related to the frequency.
What am I missing?
Wouldn’t something like an unidirectional antenna transmit energy even more efficiently ?
Did you make a video about how semiconductors are made ??
Not in big detail since this channel is more about applied electrical engineering.
Nice brother
Used to work with these things. better results in the low MHz range.
Could you post schematics. I would like to do the numbers. Are you sure it was resonantly tuned? Remember even a led resistance could change the frequency.. What frequency are you using?
ye but what books do i need to read to understand the electrostatics, magnetism, and electromagnetism completely?
I dont wanna leave anything to learn, though it ahs complex math
great video as always by the way
@GreatScott
If you want to use a higher frequency, reduce the diameter of the coil's windings because that will raise its natural resonance frequency.
Where do you draw the line when he should switch to using antenna designs for best transmission and recieving results eg focused or directed transmitter instead of just air coil transformer
i think the dude already knows that,it's like one of the most important things you have to know about RF
Very nice, I like the information presented in the video (:
Glad to hear!
Starship coils are the best configuration for wireless transmission especially if they are identical resistance
Bedankt
Danke für die Unterstützung :-)
Nice intro!
Amazing Video
Thanks!
Professor Marin Soljacic
of MIT proposed strongly coupled magnetic resonance (SCMR), and they were able to transfer 60 watts
wirelessly with ~40% efficiency over distances in excess of 2 meters. Can you show us!??!?!?!
Nice
Is this RF litz wire with individually isolated thin wires?
The was very good video in youtube by russian scientists by this technology. He used square shape. Thx for your technic and video. Great! ;)
I I selute great Scott for more informative videos
Thanks :-)
@@greatscottlab I always appreciate you
I got lost at the math equation at 2:30
🤯
Now that looks like a nice LCR meter. Probably costs a pretty penny.
Edit: yep. Phew. I mean, it's less than I expected, if I had a good use for it, then it wouldn't be too bad.
Not the cheapest stuff. But very useful :-)