Impossible Granite Vases: 3D Scan Showdown
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- Ko-fi: ko-fi.com/nigh...
#ancienthistory #ancientegypt #ancienttechnology #granite
We 3D-scanned 6 hard-stone vases, to compare their roundness precision to the vases scanned by the vase scan team. Who's better?
== Sources ==
RUclips
• Lathe rebuild. For tur...
• Turning giant piece of...
• New Research: Egyptian...
• Was a COMPUTER Used to...
• Ancient Technology Pod...
• Stone Turning a See-Th...
• Stone Turning- Field S...
• Astonishing Results! M...
• Granite Pillar Turning
• MERMER SÜTUN BAŞLIK YA...
Wikimedia:
Vana-vigala_spinning_ice_disk.mov
Websites:
www.ancientsto...
waykenrm.com/b...
Content
1:18 Souvenir jar
3:40 Contest
10:54 Analysis
15:51 Conclusion
Awesome video! I knew the obsidian shot glass was my best one but WOW I didn't expect it was that good! Thanks for including my work!
Great job, Excellent craftsmanship.
Thanks for making the vessels available. I think the obsidian precision qualifies you as an Honorary Atlantean :)
Beautiful work.
Finally proof aliens live amongst us! Take us to your leader!
Very nice. I'm curious did you do any measuring? Or did you go with looks or feel?
Notes on the production and retail of modern Egyptian tourist vases.
The business plan is to sell vases to tourists at a realistic price.
The sales strategy is to guide the tourist and potential buyer around a fake workshop where men, usually elderly men are employed apparently using primitive tools to hand make vases. This adds to the perceived value of the vases.
After the workshop tour the tourist is led into a retail store where they are given the opportunity to purchase a supposedly hand made vase. Does this sound familiar?
The reality is that the vases for purchase in the retail store are mass manufactured in a machine shop/factory elsewhere and shipped to the fake workshop /retail store.
This is common retail sales practice in the tourist industry especially in the Middle East with products ranging from vases, rugs, ceramics, textiles, wood carvings to name but few.
I bought one, it's a mass produced tourist souvenir, I didn't pay very much for it, I recognise it for what it is and enjoy it.
Great video and thanks for some actual statistical breakdown. I think there are a few points that maybe you come back to: the handles, the wall thickness, only one of the peices came close it would be good to get more info on how thick the walls are. I think we have settled the point though that modern lathes could turn these vases, this however still leaves the point as to how predynastic people did this your lathe is 5000 years into their future. The makers of these vases are hunter gathers, yes your lathe might "only" cost a $1000 but these things do tend to have a minimum quality to them being inherently well made at their price point so that they dont kill their users. Very looking forwards to see how you address these topics.
Tackle the ones with the handle lugs on them. Rounds are pretty easy.
"we can't even polish stone today" convincing, right? Scotty beam me up
At this point Ben knows he's pushing lies and can't let the grift go. He's too invested financially and from his audience.
These people never ask themselves why don't they scan modern granite vases so back up their claim the precision is impossible.
Indeed, just another LAHT grifter that knows how to avoid the critical questions that would wreck his credit card thin "authoritive" narrative.
@zemog1025 it's tiring constantly running into LAHT followers who are on almost every post about history. They'll throw out copper chisels memes on iron age sites and artifacts.
Johanna doesn't like to mention that the Barabar Caves were carved out in the iron age, so she makes it much older to a time where she says it's impossible to do with the 'copper chisels' they had. It's wild.
They don't actually care to learn about these civilizations at all.
Just add 2 nobs and you have a cost problem today. Sure we can mass-produce granit THET ARE ROIND AND HAVE NO NOBS
...NOOBS
@prutser8582 OLGA FROM SCIENTISTS AGAINST MYTHS MADE A VASE WITH BONE AND STONE, GENIUS. GUESS WHAT, IT HAD KNOBS. let's see you move the goal post for that one. The fact you think we can't make these things is bizarre. Wtf do you think humans have been doing since the stone age?
@@BSIII the precision is not even comparable with the handtools with the ancient vases. The thickness of some vases are as thin as a creditcard and as smal as an egg. Good luck debunking that.
The claim of "tremendously expensive" is based upon producing a precision vase with lug handles. None of the modern Chinese vases have lug handles. The production of a precision vase with lug handles would require the utilization of a five axis machine, Not just a modern lathe machine.
Five axis machines are "tremendously expensive" to purchase and operate. Which is why none of the modern Chinese vases have lug handles. The Chinese vases are produced on a modern precision lathe fitted with a modern tungsten carbide rotary grinding tool, which is far less expensive to purchase and operate keeping the unit cost per vase at a realistic and marketable price.
Tungsten carbide grinding machines are in common use in modern machine shops and are commonly used to re-grind precision engine crankshaft journals.
However they cannot do lug handles. Which is why the modern vases don't have lug handles. The whole video is another strawman argument.
So to sum up, any modern precision vase that does not have lug handles is a false equivalence. However it does demonstrate that a modern precision machine lathe was used. As we see with the modern Chinese vases.
Agreed❤
I can conclude two things after watching this:
1. The big deal was not the roundness of the vases but the uniform angles of the handels to all other planes?
2. Even if we discard the handles all together.. did the egyptians have as good of a lathe as we have at the moment?
Yes. Everyone in the archeological community fails to comprehend the difference between a smooth finish and PRECISION. This does not surprise me given the appalling state of the university ie basically 4 years of extended adolescent and substance abuse (fwiw... PhD experimental physicist, so I'm used the kind of sophistry in this video masquerading as thought, analysis, rational discourse).
Turning a stone or a tool in a circular motion is not complicated.
@Eyes_Open really? Then why did it take modern humans 750k years to figure it out? Spindles and bushings are finicky little things. Go outside pick up a stick and a rock and see what yours looks like after a few years of work... you can have access to modern string because there's no way you will succeed if I require you to make your own fibers. Make sure that if your design requires lubricant that you only use fat (animal or plant based) that you harvest and render/refine yourself using bronze age technology (you can hunter, gather, or agriculture any materials you may need but no refined material soooo if you need metal get some ore and build a fire)... good luck!
@robmorgan1214 You could just study Egyptian history. Good luck.
@Eyes_Open there's no such thing at the moment, just a lot of sophistry, conjecture, and assumptions masquerading as scholarship. Simply put, from an INFORMED outsiders' perspective, it's a field that's intellectually barren. I don't say this lightly but, unlike the relatively objective field of literary criticism, it has no legitimate place in the academy at present. As an EXPERIMENTAL physicist with more than a passing life-long interest in archeology, paleohistory, and the classics, I was shocked and appalled by what I've discovered lurking beneath the surface in this corner of "scholarship". Calling it a dismal product of parochial interests, narcissists, insane egos, generations of departmental empire building, and infighting is too generous by far. The engineers doing this analysis of artifacts languishing in poorly curated storeroom is forcing a well deserved reckoning in many areas defined by laziness and unjustified certainty attempting to launder bias religiosity and political interests as an academic product as robust as anything produced in the college of natural sciences. For many years people have said economists have physics envy... in a similar vein, Archeologists have science envy... and much like economists their work has almost NOTHING to do with reality. They are both disciplines practiced primarily by psudointellectuals. I'm absolutely DISGUSTED by what I've discovered investigating the current state of affairs in this corner of the academy.
@nightscarab. liked the vid but i still feel your missing the point and attacking ben because of the cant be done today statement and kind of focus on that. the real mystery is that the pre dynastic Egyptians didn't have lathes as far as we currently know..........
There is no example of a surviving lathe but they had materials available to make tools. No high technology required.
It’d be more than a little ironic if Ben and Co were too invested in their theory to admit fault - after years of accusing mainstream academia of acting in that way
*Simonkempe*
Why admit fault when it brings in so much money ?
That would be the equivalent of killing the goose that lays golden eggs.
Look Ben is making a killing doing this, I ran into him at the giza pyramids and they had a bus full of people paying 10k each for a 2 week trip
Admitting to the fault of claiming that the vessels can't be reproduced doesn't make them go poof, you know.
I guess for the "debunkers" that is enough to blanket dismiss and ignore the hard questions.
@@sirmoke9646 Hard questions ? There are plenty of archeological resources out there. Do you know, there are Individuals who have posted videos creating such things, using 'primitive tools' ? They've contacted Ben & co - but he refuses to talk to them. In the meantime, legitimate researchers struggle to fund a single field trip to Egypt every few years, while these guys rake in the cash - going to Egypt every year. Mark Twain was right, when he said that lies travel twice around the world - before the truth has tied its shoe laces. It's a sad state of affairs that so many people are duped by these con-artists - but then again - that's the power of propaganda.
@@PaxAlotin this goes both ways
Excellent video! So many people have asked me to do a video on those stupid vases and I never wanted to. Interesting note that I also used ice circles to demonstrate how precise circles isn’t really that difficult given enough time. I think these guys already know they’re full of crap and are stuff with the grift. Never get too attached to your theories or else you’ll end up rejecting reality to fit it.
“Never get too attached to your theories or else you’ll end up rejecting reality to fit it”
Cough cough younger dryas impact hypothesis researchers cough cough 😉
You light scanned ice circles and found them to be perfectly circular to within a tolerance of thousandths of an inch?? Absolutely amazing!
You should get a Nobel prize for discovering high precision ice circles!
They might have used a solar powered lazer beam guitar? Well done. A Harbour Freight lathe? Wow, that is what Space X uses.
Prism, Spaceship Superstar.
The vases you show in the video, the most precise ones are made with power tools as you show in the video, that strengthens the Vase Scan Project conclusion no? Another thing is as I understand it, the only reason they say 5 axis is to explain the handles, if it had no handles the 5 axis would not be mentioned
Oh no the handles, the HANDLES! Since you did not address the "handles" in this video, then everything else you said must be invalid. Making a precision vase is one thing. But making a precision vase with two little lugs on it, well that might as well be alien technology. They are clearly not even remotely comparable to each other
Do you realize we have stone vessels, with handles, much more complex then any stone vessels from ancient Egypt?
@MrAchile13 do you realize what sarcasm is?
@@TheTonyMcD you have no idea how many comments I've seen, where it wasn't sarcasm.
Fascinating, thank you for this!
Does make me wonder why the VST hasn't scanned some modern vessels to help establish baseline/point of comparison
Who knows, maybe they did it but then ignored the results to keep their pet theory alive and making them money?
Or they are simply scientifically illiterate enough to not have considered testing even their most basic assumptions.
Maybe a mix of both?
It is exactly the first thing they should've done and the first thing that made me extremely skeptical of their honesty. They've done a lot of pretending they are unaware of other stone vases made in the 1800s as well
Thanks so much for actually DOING things to debunk outlandish claims. Top notch content here as usual! I try to stay open minded of what the ancients were capable of doing (more than we think) and what tools and methods they used (more clever than we assume). Under this point of view your work is incredible important to cut away the nonsense and fluff and see whats left on the table to learn from and investigate further...
He didn't debunk. He just pointed out the falsehood of we can't make thing from the past. But doesn't disprove ancient humans used technology. It proves they did use technology 😅
The ancient alien theorists have countless hours of content that overlook the errors made by the advanced alien machines.
In under 20 minutes, Night Scarab presents verifiable information that clearly addresses the likely processes involved in creating ancient works.
Amazing ancient egyptian angle grinder. The hardware store lathe and the steel/carbide/diamond cutting tools blew my mind. Indeed verified and cleared up everything. I did miss the 230V AC outlet beneath the red pyramid but we can work on that.
You’re not supposed to drink the acid from the baghdad battery. Good luck.
Nobody asked the Chinese shops to make them a more Precision vase. For a few extra dollars you could get one. That's what the sketchy Antiquity dealers that sell "ancient vases" to Matt Beall would do.
Add 2 nobs on the sides and you will not pay 2 dollar but jou need an expert 5axit tool..... goodluck
@prutser8582 The Chinese are literally carving dragons into the sides of stone vases and columns and you think handles are magic
@@prutser8582 Sure the would...I've bought a few over the years and have made some as well...Not really that big a challenge if you actually know what your doing...but like most that claim "it's impossible" they know little to nothing about stone work traditional or otherwise...LOL!!!
To point out the absurdity of 'not able to create something that precise today'
The hale telescope primary mirror is 200" across and has a curvature accurate to something like 0.000001 (one millionths of an inch) by requirement.
That telescope was designed in the thirties and finished in 50.
Do you…. Do you not know how simply glass telescope mirrors are made?? Lol do you really think the comparison makes sense there?
@@dillan6134 maybe but it's not a shower mirror, its a fiver meter mirror with orders and orders of magnitude more precision. It more than meets the requirements of something "that precise" don't you think?
@@dillan6134 Do you really think that we haven't progressed at at in the field of accuracy in the last 70-90 years?
Hell you could copy this video's ruclips.net/video/VtxsKUgqP8M/видео.html design with a hacksaw and some needle files and have something that can _move_ at greater than that accuracy on your desk.
The JWST has 54 fine adjust actuators with better than an adjustment step of half a millionth of an inch and an eighth of repeatability.
Hell, don't even bother with any of that 'high tech' stuff, for machining your thing, since they can measure the error, have some guy in the corner scribble on the high spots with a pencil until the measurement device can't find a high spot anymore.
Lovely! An example of a verbal stilleto slipping precisely between the ribs.. Awesome, as always. Thank you once again!
Its actually very dificult to replicate the VST's 6" OG vase. The lug handles are misaligned and the holes were drilled off-center. The outside contour is truncated and the vase is visually wonky. The poor polish of the vessel is the easiest to match. Reproducing the vase with matching precision will be no essy feat.
I'm a CNC/Machinist/ programmer of 40yrs + experience, and your video is very deceiving. What Ben talks about in his video's is the whole vase with the hubs being within a few thousands inside to outside and everything symmetrical in all ways. The better and more obvious thing is they had machines. Then you have the vases with walls so thin you can see a light from the outside, as someone who has made a ton of thin walled parts in my life, good luck trying to cut super hard material inside diameters to .02 wall thickness, and ending up round. Ben should never of said we can't make them today, but a vase with the hubs, and trying to blend all the radii together without a multiple axis machine would be very difficult, and you would see many of the same form, like you do in your China video. Just making the outside round is simple, that's not the project, make the whole thing then you will understand what I'm saying.
If they had invented spinning bow drills to hollow out objects, then spinning the object itself and using abrasives or chisels to form the outer surface would be a logical next development.
That would also explain the cruder finishing of the handle areas, as they wouldn't have been able to use the rotation axis, relying even more on hand finishing.
The thin walls I see as just a matter of how time is spent on the object. Creating a thin wall would be more time intensive, with a greater risk of failure. However if these were luxury objects, then those are parameters that fit that class of objects.
On the other hand, all of the above could be seen as reinforcing the argument that the vases presented are simply counterfeits. In that case any claim, regardless of the level of finish, is subject to proof of provenance.
This is especially so given that we know that there has been a trade in fake Egyptian objects going back many, many years.
But how where the handles/rope holes made without ruining the tolerances?
Leave a ridge around the vessel proud of the rest of the outer wall, cut/chip away the unwanted material in between the handles, then abrade it down, perhaps using something like an inverted Y shaped tool to maintain roundness.
Remember that if these vases are actually ancient, they were made by skilled craftsmen with a generational knowledge of their craft.
In other words, they figured it out.
There are several ways. As someone that works in both traditional stone and ceramics, I would suggest taking a basic "turning class" for pottery. The principles are nearly the same just different tooling. No mystery, no aliens or lost technology at all...just skill, dedication and lots of patience...
@@JayCWhiteCloud I've been a potter for thirty years and I can't think of a way to "turn" a symmetrical vase with handles out of stone, I would really like to learn one of your ways though?
@@davidwhiteford4936 Hello David, With your skill sets and history with them, the transition to turning wood or stone would be quite rewarding and dare I say, enjoyable too. Granted for the sake of time employing modern tooling will make it go easier and faster, though certainly not as fast at throwing small pot with "lug handles" like you would find in such stone work. Of course you can "pull" handles in clay, as you know, but the can be carved too when the clay is moving into the "leather hard state." If you look back through Night Scarab's videos and links, I do believe he offers a video or link explaining it. If he reads this comment perhaps they can share that link. One method (clay, wood or stone) is to turn a ridge at the level of the "lugs" and then remove the section in-between. It is rarer, but some of the traditional amphorae, jars, pots and related vessels had more than two, with some having three, a few four and some even with more. If you will note, there is always and even turned space above and below the lug area. This becomes the reference plane for evening out the space between the lugs. I do realize this is a very short and rather obscure description, (in words) for a more indepth process taught of found in esoteric manuscript but that should give you the idea. With a wee bit of digging online, you can find graphic examples of these methods in academic papers, articles and books...More questions welcome if you have them...
edit: If you just search "DIY stone turning" you will see quite a bit of info. I was even surprised tonight by the amount that seems to be ever growing...
@ what an amazing atttempt at explaining the handles! unfortunately this is what Ben was talking about. it hasnt been recreated with the same accuracy.
Can you measure roundness of Ikea mortar and pestle? :P (it will be at least a nice short)
Watching the videos by so-called "Experts", it's all too easy for many people to just accept what they have to say. Having spent a lot of my professional career in many types of engineering, I can easily dismiss them, telling us these things were and are impossible. It's refreshing to find videos like this one that give us the true facts.
Facts? The whole reason they might say they're impossible is because you can't turn the area inbetween the handles on a lathe and the undercut internals. Which this video did not state one single fact about either. So your just accepting what he said then?
what about the handles?
On the vases presented as ancient, they aren't very nicely formed.
Almost like an afterthought of design, or perhaps just crudely made to help sell the idea that they are real.
@darklight2.1 So by ignoring the handles you solved the problem? Nice
@@prutser8582 I didn't ignore the handles, I described them.
The vast majority of people who have been influenced by the LAHT channels have never examinged the scan files and are under the impression that the handles represent examples of extraordinary workmanship.
They don't.
So by ignoring what I actually wrote, you were able to cope with the cognitive dissonance created when it was pointed out that the reality doesn't match the narrative that you have adopted.
Nice.
There is no doubting we can do these precise things today. How did they work the diorite, granite, etc back then? And the small vessels? The symmetry of certain statues?
Lathe, he already made another video talking how the egyptian can make percise vase.
15:15 if it's spinning. Then there is a center point. 😅
Thanks for the content. From Aurora Colorado
Thank you for watching!
Showing we can do this today with our modern technology doesn't detract anything from stunning fact someone was manufacturing on mass precision made granite vases thousands of years ago. I'd love to see one made with the lug handles shown on the Egyptian vases and demonstrate how that is achieved with today's machinery. Mirroring the precision of the ancient vases that have been scanned around the lug handles. The ancient's are said to have made these vases by hand if you follow the mainstream explanation, which makes the vases all the more baffling if you look at the modern day hand made examples and contrast the level of precision between them. No one knows for sure, who and how the ancient vases were made. it remains a fascinating subject to look into.
Ancient mass production of what exactly? Have any 2 authentic artifacts been shown as having identical measurements?
@@Eyes_Open It is reported that approximately 40,000 stone vases were discovered under the step pyramid. I doubt any two are exactly the same, maybe similar in design. When you scan an object with tolerances in the thousandths of an inch, no two objects will ever be exactly the same especially when "made by hand."
@goldscaz 40000 stone vessels. The majority of which were alabaster bowls and plates.
Fantastic! Thanks for sharing 👍🏼
Only thing missing (or for future videos!) are how the handles on some of the ancient objects were made.
Indeed that's the right question 🎉
Made by hand
@prutser8582 made by hand
What process was used for the jug handles? Any theories or reproductions of that feature?
Earlier video explaisn how a modern Chinese manufacturer would do it. Scientists Against Myths channel demonstrates a simple metbod in their experiments.
13:30 You forgot that we use diamond to cut things. Supposedly, ancient humans didn't have diamonds. So them making things at the same level as us. Is impressive. Proof they had technology
They had slaves and a lot of time.
You don't need diamond cutting tools or abrasives to work stone, no matter how hard it is. It can be a convenient option, but not required in the slightest and is often not used.
@JohnSmall314 wrong. Stop talking online.
@parkerbradley2457 your comment was wrong. You literally sad nothing. 99% of modern cutting tools use diamond. So you can't compare a diamond tool using Chinese company to ancient humans that probably used quartz crystals like sand.
@@kungfumaster12"99% of modern cutting tools use diamond." That is just factually incorrect (but yes they are very commonly available today). Sigh! I'm not going to get into a silly back and forth here, but I will add my final response here and I do speak from experience. You really might benefit from looking into this further, if it's of actual interest to you. Walk through a hardware store, peruse sites that sell cutting and grinding tools, and various abrasives. Read a variety of books from different periods on stone carving and such. Get some stone and start playing with it -- if you have even a marginal sense of "handiness with your hands", you might surprise yourself.
Diamond, is but one of many options we have today, and many others that were used long ago are still widely used today as well. You don't have to use diamond to cut anything, but it does have certain properties that make it the best choice (but not the only choice) in certain circumstances; and often is just used today out of lazy convenience cause it's what someone has on hand, even though not necessary. Ancient well-made vases = Ancient "high" technology (whatever that means) ??? _NO_, but a high level of skill and pride with a certain set of hand tools and such Yes -- and very deserving of respect.
So instead of technology of the year 2000, you're only giving them credit for technology of the year 1900?
I'd agree with that.
This is just such a great channel!
*Night Scarab* - While I agree that you have knocked over their broad claim--
- that such precision cannot be reproduced - the remains one thorny issue ----- the handles ?
I know that such handled vases can be made nowadays - but it requires a two stage process of working.
It would be really interesting to see, if any manufacturer has such vases on sale, either in Egypt or across the world.
The holes on the sides in ancient Egyptian vessels were used to secure a piece of cloth / leather with cord, to seal the container. They didn't have, and were unable to make, twist lids, often used today to close containers. Today, stone vases are only used for flowers or ashes, they're not actually used daily in kitchens as containers. Virtually no one today makes stone vases with handles. If an urn for ashes needs handles, they just add metal handles.
@@nightscarab5802 My memory is hazy on the details - but someone approached a potential manufacturer in China - (was it you ?) They described how they would turn the vase leaving a thick rim of stone around the place where the lugs were to be located. Then they would cut away all the excess material to leave two 'lugs' of stone in place. From there, it was just a matter of drilling the holes & polishing the adjacent surfaces so they matched the vase's contours. I've been looking for such a manufacturer, as I'm convinced that the vases Ben & his friends have - are very unlikely to be originals. Somewhere - someone was knocking them out for the tourist trade. I expect they still are.
@@PaxAlotin let's see that in a video with primitive hand-tools.... I'm all for it..... gooooodluck😂
@@prutser8582 Your level of ignorance is off the chart.🤨😑
Nice work. What do you think motivates the ancient high technology folks besides $? Surely there’s more to the effort they are putting into their campaigns than selling something?
Really? Everybody is missing the most important point about Egyptian granite vases: THE FRIGGIN HANDLES!
Yes, I can't believe that omission is not intentional. Sorry for the double negative. (It's obvious the video author intended to not consider the handles)
@@emilsavu - The wonky handles?
During the lathing process you leave one area untouched, where the handle will be.
Now you've got a ridge of let's say 1 inch by 1 inch around the vase.
You grind a groove in it on both sides of the handle spot, using a copper blade and wet sand. This kind of grinding in granite has been demonstrated by Scientists Against Myths by hand to take a few hours max. Next you grind the same grooves all around and knock away the remaining granite stumps with a chisel. Then you use a flat piece of granite and wet sand to polish it all down to level with the rest of the vase, when it's close to level you make the polishing stroke a bit longer to overlap the vase, so it follows the curve.
A video of the Petrie vase scan showed that the precision of the part in between the handles around the vase is 10x less precise than the rest of the vase, indicating a different method. (Hand polishing vs lathe?)
They said it was the result of less data points, but gave no explanation as to why there were less data points, or explained how more data points would improve precision. Those 10x deviations are there.
This video didn't mention this topic. It did answer the question of precision achievable by a hand lathe, and it shows there is no computer guided high tech needed.
Can that sink in instead of jumping to the next question like it doesn't matter?
DAT last sentence! 😂
One for the Al-Gore-Rhythm ;)
Analyzing fake vases is a fascinating business.
Is heathstone like an acrylic? Mix up a couple of chemicals and pour in a mold??
Where can I download the raw data?
What makes me wonder is the handles. How do you make precision round vases with handles? Not on a lathe, even today! It's interesting to me that you don't address this obvious confound!!
An earlier video shows how a Chinese manufacturer would do it.
"The vases you had analysed... there's no way we could make them today." Nonsense right from the off! If you have the means to measure to a tolerance you can make it too!
good video, thanks. i enjoyed it ! well im half way through tbh
I remember when this channel went away. Thank god you returned to silence the madness.
Truly on another level.
Now make a modern precision vase, using an inexpensive modern spindle bearing lathe... WITH LUG HANDLES!.. Did I mention LUG HANDLES.
The lug handles have many people believing in an impossible mystery. Good marketing strategy from UnchartedX.
Do you mean misaligned lug handles with off centered holes ?
@@GroberWeisenstein Yes! With a focus on the surfaces between the "misaligned lug handles with off centre holes". What evidence do you have that the asymmetrical lug handles are not by design?
@jonellison9832 Yeah, that sounds rational and practical.
@@GroberWeisenstein Seems to be something in the air these days.
Ko-fi: ko-fi.com/nightscarab
@1:18 Souvenir jar
@3:40 Contest
@10:54 Analysis
@15:51 Conclusion
It would be comical if it was not so sad that people like Ben and company have to push their "grifting" as authentic science and make the outlandish and obtuse claims they so often do...and so many believe...Yet, the idea of actually learning how to work stone traditionally seems to always be something they avoid or claim they have "talked to" or "hired" experts who confirm that it is impossible...yet our museums are full of artifacts confirming the contrary...Great video as always...!!!...Thank you.
I suppose it's part of the conclusion, but really:
@16:32 Sick burn / mic drop
😁
Very good my friend. Very good, indeed!
I always wondered why Ben and Co never scanned any modern vases in comparison..
Because we can not make them. ( added withe the 2 nobs on the side )
@prutser8582 - Goal posts moved as predicted.
@@prutser8582 Au contraire...but by all means believe whatever nonsense you wish to...
Maybe because the egyptians didn't have angle grinders 230V lathes carbide and diamond cutters making the comparison pointless. Just maybe.
@sirmoke9646 - Did you watch the video? Ben has made many claims that modern tooling couldn't achieve the tolerances exhibited by his "vases"
The content creator here has proven those claims to be false. Do you think Ben will change his stance in the face of evidence?
Great video.
Important channel and content. I truly despise those secret knowledge and lost civilization grifters.
Truly amazing what happens with a huge population with nothing to do!
Agate is harder than granite
So how about you explain the handles -- rather glaring by omission. (I'm completely agnostic on this, but those handles are the bit that's always stumped me.)
The handles are just not a big mystery. Leave a ridge of stone at the height of the future handles, then later remove the unwanted material.
Solid, the handles tho
Masterclass in logic. Thia channel should serve as a beacon on how to analyze and problem solve. Keep them coming!!
Irony, it wasn't logic base 😅
Yes, your master logically concluded that if he included the vase handles in his presentation that his premise wouldn't fly!
Wow. What a poor attempt. The only thing you prove is you can make a round thing on a new lathe. Most do not say we couldnt do it today. They say it couldnt be done with sand, sticks, and rocks. Which you failed to even attempt. You also didnt attempt the handles or the internal right angle undercut. You just said "undercut no problem". And you didnt attempt the handle becauss you couldnt do it on a lathe. Again, you say "just chisel and smooth it off" without any proof. The mainstream said these are made with sand, stone, and sticks. Which you failed to address at all. What a failure. You just proved you could make a round thing on a lathe. They say it cant be made today becauss of the exact 2 things you didnt even attempt. (Space between the handles and the undercut insides) the majority of the originals have handles and are atleast contoured so why hand wave them away when that is the main reason all this is being done? My guess is because you already know you cant. If you disagree, then back it up with proof.
I know it wasn't your intention, but you've just proven that it would have taken a lathe type machine to have made the ancient stone vases. What you missed, probably because you know very little about machining, is that the most telling factor is concentricity, and not roundness. Roundness is a given if you use a lathe. Your analogy with the ice is a bit silly. Hardly a realistic method of making anything, except ice discs. As for granite and it's composition, well, there's granite and then there's granite. It's quite a variable substance. It can be reasonably kind to work, or it can be almost impossible. The examples you showed would have been made with the kinder variety. The type of vessels you used are very simple to make, not a worthy comparison. Your debunk here is full of strawmen and it shows a woeful lack of knowledge about machining.
Go make a proper vase, as in the ancient examples you showed, not a shot glass, with a thin wall, and lugs. Use any machine you like. Beware taking too much notice of pseudoexperts on this subject, they'll mislead you.
This, the vase scan project moved back the date Egyptians had lathe technology at the very least.
I'm sorry but you ignore the most important fact, they feel that they're right
Here you are using logic, trying to obscure the truth from what ancient alien theorists have told them
great job as usual man
And yet you still fail to address the 2 x most difficult feats. 1. The handles / lugs, the precision in between and the continuation of flatness on a complex curvature. 2. The sacred geometry encoded which has billions to 1 of it being an accident / unintended.
Indeed that's the main unaddressed problem in the precision!
Why are so many people fooled into believing that handles are mysterious and that playing with numbers is an argument?
@@Eyes_Open Why don't you tell us how it's done then?
The same way, leave it large outside diameter where handles will be, then carve them by hand.
@@biokemical
Night Scarab has addressed both of those issues in the first video on the subject. I highly recommend you watch it.
The film is patently dishonest. It completely misses the biggest problem - how the roundness between the handles of the old vases was achieved with similar precision as in the other places, where nothing interferes with the rolling of the material. The modern vases selected for comparison do not have any handles.
100% ❤ that's the true problem here.... 😮
It's easy to make mass market vases with the same degree of accuracy as the VST when you exclude the lug handles and interior smoothness.
Wait, so let me get this right, you guys done nothing but whine about provenance on all the vases of the VST guys but your souvenir jar and your 1970s jar has no proof how they were made at all so your proof is "TRUST ME BRO"? And then your trying to pass off your others as "handmade" because it wasnt made on an automated lathe? They were still made on an electric powered modern lathe? I dont believe the predynastic egyptians had those. And the entire reason they say the original vases cant be made today are because of the handles and the area between and, again, you handwave it away with no proof at all. So what have you "debunked"? All you have done is scanned 2 "trust me bro" vases and a bunch of others made on modern lathes. You debunked nothing.
Nicely spoken 🎉 not debunked and no comment from NightScarab, sad😢
What about the mass produced temu vases. This is sweatshop quality and it still rivals the ones held by the VST.
As for the lug handles, do they even look precise without the scan? I always thought they looked wonky.
The credibility of the vase owners is also being questioned. If they are not ancient, as claimed. Then comparing them to typical modern lathe work that yields consistent results is a no brainer. It shows a correlation to modern work. Unless proven otherwise we know this is most likely a modern piece..
Finally a lot of outlandish claims have been made about the unlikliness to replicate these items today, especially the very thin almost transparent piece. Therefore if they should be replicated today it would undoubtedly question the legitimacy of the claim maker? No, probably not.
Isn't it also claimed that the Egyptians in fact didn't make these they only tried to replicate them?
The issue that keeps returning is; claims have been made about the complexity of the vases. Scarab has shown that this quality can be easily achieved. It's not an attack but a retaliation to multiple claims.
The burdon of proving them to be ancient is on the VST. That's just how life works.
@rsf886 OK. Send me the link where I can buy the vases that are comparable to the original ones and, yes, with handles since the original has them. I am confident you won't.
As for the lugs, I agree the lugs are wonky most of the time but the sections between the lugs are the hard part to blend to the body since you can't complete that step with your lathe.
I agree the provenance should be questioned. But scarab should have to follow that same step. He just presented vases with no provenance or proof of manufacture method. Correlation to modern work? Consistent results?
What is the use of this video? His vases are a different design than the original be studied and made from tools the egyptians didn't have. So what's the point?
And, no, sorry, the VST are not the ones who claim to know how they are made. The burden lies with the party who claims to know how. Because mainstream are the ones who claim to know. So you have to prove your hypothesis before its accepted as fact. It's science.
And just to make my own position clear I believe the egyptians made them. (No aliens reguired) and egyptians built the pyramids. Pyramids are tombs. But I believe the Egyptians used processes or some form of an advanced technology that has been lost or forgotten to us today. I think these predynastic vases will be one of the things that will end up proving it.
@@rsf886 long statements are usually lies.....keep on talking😂
@@79Cody440 👍
I really love your contet but sadly you didn't talk about how the handles could have been made keeping that precision. I'd love to see a real world experiment using only tools they had in that times. Even if they had lathes - sure not from Harbour Freight made of steel :D
You want handles just like the ancient imprecise ones? Why?
@@Eyes_Open that the whole issue, the handles are the problem in this matter. Try to make that with the tools shown in this video
@@prutser8582 No...as stated before...they are not regardless of those who like to make them out to be...Time consuming...yes...difficult or impossible...no...
@prutser8582 You leave a ridge of stone at the height of the handles and then later remove the unwanted portion of the ridge.
@@Eyes_Open I understand what you mean, but I think this would not work. You need full rotation & speed that a lathe work. This is not possible if you only have a rotation for about 160° or so.
Not even mentioning the lugs...WTF are you even doing?
Lid handles
You forget totally about the handles. Can the Chinese lathe users make vases with handles like the egyptians have?
They have a video that shows how the Chinese manufacturers said that they would do just that:
ruclips.net/video/O_4SaxVP44g/видео.html
@darklight2.1 Oh so they do it with a "Trust me bro"? Cause that's all I saw.
@@79Cody440 There is no reason why it wouldn't work-it's not a complicated idea.
If the ancient Egyptians did make them, how do you think that they did it?
I guess the question was too hard..
@darklight2.1 didn't see your message. My original comment stands. If it is so easy then why didn't they do it? It is one of the main reasons the alternative history guys says it can't be done by hand so why would a video made specifically to prove them wrong not show it being done? I could say I could paint the Mona Lisa but noone would believe me unless I prove it. If you say you have an answer you have to prove it for it to be accepted. I don't know how they did it. That's the whole point. The pseudo guys don't claim to know how its done, the mainstream do. Thats why the burden lies on those who say they know the answer. And if they say they know then they should prove it by replicating the whole original. Not one part of the original. And saying the. Egyptians made them is just my opinion. Just the same as mainstream saying they did is theirs. We don't have the proof to state it as fact. I could be completely wrong, and they could have been made out of sand, rocks, and copper, but mainstream could be wrong also. So both sides should chill with the arrogance and condescension when responding. Oh, and mainstream acts like its either mainstream or aliens and that's it, but most pseudo do not think it was aliens. I hope. If so, only make fun of them, not extremely intelligent geniuses like me.
Great video. Ben doesn't think so however 😂
so, pre dynastic Egyptians had high powered lathes and hard steel. The archeologist aren't going to like that. Also a shot glass isin't a vase with a 10'' diameter. Furthermore how is the precision in between the handles done. No need to hide behind AI voices if you truly belive in your cause.
Who said that ancients had what you just claimed? Seems like you have a conclusion and don't appreciate rational explanations.
Opening our eyes with the help of true demonstrations... I loved it. Thanks.
Christ , those LAHT spoofers spout some amount of shite.
Great vid.
Alt. historians continue to believe anything UnchartedX tells them. Thankfully there are still a few channels on RUclips that can be trusted to fact-check these people
"It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they are being fooled"......
What Ben says sounds more logical than most of the wrong assumptions mijn histotians. I myself are a have worked a lot with stone myself and this video does not debunk Ben. If the ancient knobs where added to all these vases I might change my perspective on this mater. NightScarab does not reply to the added Knobs nor the creditcard thicknes nor the vases not bigger than an egg, so :
"It's easier to fool someone than to convince
them they are being fooled
I have my experience and knowledge in stone, please try again to debunk with hand-tools and add the KNOBS. GoooooodLuck
@ So where are the goalposts now?
@@prutser8582 to say there was a advanced hi tech civilization 12k years ago that vanished into thin air, with no traces (other then the miss attributed artifacts from known civilizations) is a logical as saying the earth is flat. You're right, what Ben says sounds more logical to the uneducated, but the more you look into it, the more fringe it gets.
@@prutser8582 I'm not necessarily accusing you of this, but I still see alt. historian commenters making these sorts of claims all the time about how they supposedly have all this expert stone masonry experience and knowledge but then will immediately tell on themselves by repeating such comically false claims which any real stone mason would know better than to make such as the notion that granite can only be worked with diamond-tipped tools/machinery (it is commonly known that stone tool made of granite or harder such as flint and many other stone tools that Egyptians had in abundance are actually ideal for working granite efficiently. When they are shown a video of someone working granite with stone tools, they will almost always move the goal posts). This is the exact type of alt. historian misinformation that they would have only picked up from one of the Hancockian youtubers like UnchartedX or Griftopher Dunn. I see this all the time, which really highlights the level of intellectual honesty these sorts of people are operating at to actually go and fake credentials out of desperation just to pump fake other commenters into conceding to their little expertise role play. That's the actions of a person who wants to convince people that they are right so bad that they are happy to bluff imaginary credentials to win them over That's an act of desperation
Such a good video. Your work is very much appreciated, thank you.
Good work put into this video
Holy crap! So the only way they could have made these things was with modern machines like this? Like over 6,000 years ago? That's incredible! My mind is blown.
why is it you guys think its impossibl just because you cant make it.... gonna unsubsrice from this idiocracy
I still don't believe ancient Egypt had CNC technology and diamond cutting tools.
Great debunking!
Not debunked.... not even half examples to compare these havo no nobs on the side.
What debunking lol. He dismissed the ridiculous notion that we can't make the vessels today. And yes, those claims are bs.
Doesn't take away anything from the fact that they did manufacture them 6000+ fucking years ago.
It's about time! 🙂
You are ignoring a couple HUGE issues with this video. First is the claim from the Egyptologists that the ancient Egyptians didn't have the wheel and thus didn't have the lathe. This is obviously not true. Second is all the modern made vases are virtually unfinished inside where the ancient ones nicely done with smooth and THIN walls. The one very small cup shown that is thin enough to pass light has a HUGE mouth...where many of the ancient ones are many times larger in diameter than their openings which presents a real challenge to get a tool small enough to fit through the opening yet long and sturdy enough to cut the interior to credit card thickness. And this is supposedly done with only copper tooling....which again proves the 'experts' to be wrong.
This IS possible today...but impossible if the Egyptologist 'experts' are to be believed. Show us a modern vase over 10" tall with a 1" mouth that is over 6" wide yet .050" in thickness. So far...nobody has done this so showing lathe turned vessels that have equal exterior concentricity does not 'debunk' anything. The modern vases do the easy part but ignore what would be really difficult because it IS difficult...which is the whole point of the ancient vase scan project.
The vases PROVE that what the 'experts' are telling us is WRONG.....so the truth lies elsewhere and that's what they're trying to discover. Making modern replica's that only look like the ancient vessels while not duplicating the really difficult features proves nothing other than a failed attempt to discredit some very dedicated researchers searching for the truth.
Please show me an Egyptian vase that was measured to be credit card thickness
@recoilrob324 You skipped over the part where Ben or the owners never show any real Providence for the vases. He says trust me bro they're old. No one asked to have the insides polished or any of the features that you think are important when these vases were made. Order one and ask for it
Ben is that you?🤔
Lots of words to say that you don't want a bubble to be burst. Why even bother with the absurdity of thinking that Egyptians did not know about wheels?
Seconding the request for an Egyptian vase with walls as thin as a credit card.
I don't know why people just beleive what ever they watch, without thinking for themselves.
Exactly this video is bullsh*t .... no handles or nobs on these examples. Stupid
@@prutser8582 why are you so hung up on the "nobs?" Take a ceramics class teaching throwing and turning methods...work up from there for goodness sake and stop acting like this is some dark mystery or lost technology like Ben and company...
awsome
Your very smart Mr scarab why waste your time on this when you could clearly be solving bigger mysteries like the real age of the Sphinx or how did they make the pyramids
Great video. Unfortunately, can't help but feel that your skills are wasted on these crackpots (pun intended). Some people are just allergic to admitting they are wrong and gullible.
thx
the shot glass was that used a lathe and carbide tooling was the only example that was remotely close , and the operation used carbide and precision of a modern metal lathe
You have only proven you can't make granite objects within .002" in 5 axis without a lathe and carbide tooling
No , what it really proves it that the claims of LAHT advocates are inconsistent
@matthewmiller5619 that's refreshingly sweet 🤗 almost naive, bet you believe they moved 800 ton limestone blocks on logs with rope, too, bless your heart
@@mrglasecki How do you think big stone blocks were moved?
@@mrglasecki your beliefs require the ‘god of the gaps fallacy’ whereas I’m just comfortable with accepting that we may never know the methods used .
@darklight2.1 let me try to put this into perspective , a modern locomotive weights ~200 ton , to move it even one km would require a level limestone bed hardened steel alloy rails hardened steel alloy wheels and hardened steel alloy bearings the hardwood or concrete cross tie bear little individual with steel plates they distribute the weight and scotch the rail from splaying
moving something 4 times as heavy over 500 miles didn't move on cellulose and lignin and hemi cellulose fiber
you're still missing the point. Handles
Indeed. Not even half debunked. Ad handles and these techniques can't do the work that was done 5000 years ago. The stupidly and ignored handles are such a lack of understanding the problem😂
Meh, a pisspore argument, cope harder
The whole video is a strawman from the get go. No one has claimed that equivalent precision "cannot be achieved with advanced modern tools". Equivalent precision and far higher precision is easily achievable with "advanced modern tools". In fact it is advanced modern tooling that allows us to recognise the high precision in the "supposed" ancient vases.
With reference the "supposed". Testing is underway of ancient vases held in museum collections with impeccable, as good as it gets provenance. The results are yet to be published. Stay tuned...
No. The claim very much is that modern technology is not able to match ancient technology. It is such a common claim that one wonders how you would say otherwise. All part of the strategy of UnchartedX and his pals.
@ The claim is not that modern technology cannot match ancient technology. In fact there is no claim, only questions. The main question being how did the ancients manage to manufacture a vase to within tolerances only possible during the industrial age? That is the question being asked. No claims, no answers to the question yet. Focus on the question.
@@jonellison9832 There are countless people making the claim that you deny.
Wow you didn't prove anything!
Do you even know how a lathe works!
Thank you for sharing this extensive study. Critical thinking and science must prevail over the thoughtless parroting of these influencers.
Great. Ridiculous claims dismissed. Easy pickings. No critical thinking is needed for that if you're above room temperature IQ.
Now before you blanket dismiss everything else about the stone vessels because of muh "thoughtless parroting inlfuencers" apply some of that critical thinking and sciency stuff to the relevant question: how did the egyptians manage it? Angle grinder, hardware shop lathe, tungsten/diamond cutter heck.. steel tools I'm afraid are not allowed.
Why did you leave out all the other dimensions? Inside? Radii at the changes of angles? Mathematics that describe the relationships to the various planes, curves, etc. Oh, let’s see you get some Chinese vases with symmetrical bosses, with holes. When you demonstrate ALL of the ancient variables associated with the old vases, make another vid and show us. I encourage all your viewers to watch several of the “other side’s” vids, and read the comments by engineers, aerospace machine operators, and other professionals who work with precision cnc. Only then will you be able to see how poor this one is. I also bet this guy has never run any of this type of equipment. ( PS, I make no claim on HOW these were made, and the other guys only describe what modern machinery would be necessary today, not that the ancients had them.)
Thank you for once again do bunking the charlatans and pushes of false history and lying about their findings compared to reality. Please keep producing this information. I wish you got the amount of views as those morons.
Great Work Thanks ;) 🪲Night Scarab Serves Again🎖