Installing Our New DC Fast Charger! XCharge NZS 200kWh Battery Integrated Unit
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Welcome to our first DC Fast Charger install to rapidly charge electric cars! In this episode we replace an existing level 2 EVSE with a XCharge NZS that contains a 233kWh battery pack to allow high power charging with only a 19kW grid connection in our case. Hope you enjoy!
Thanks to Winn Marion and XCharge for making this video possible.
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#xcharge #dcfc #charging
Fort Collins resident and new EV owner here. Your review of the permitting process and the lack of DC fast charging infrastructure here was eye opening. I have LV2 charging at home so I haven't considered that the GMC dealership was the "best" we had, but I really hope the City does something about this, soon.
It’s crazy that the GMC dealer was the fastest until now… so much work to be done!
Loveland has chargers.
@@ahbushnell1yes, but that’s Loveland and not Fort Collins haha
@@KyleConner This is super fascinating! Is the podcast... still happening?
@@KyleConner For sure. The last time I tried it, I only got 28.5kW from the GMC dealer charger, even though it's a 62kW station. I think they limited it since it came back online. So, evGo is really the fastest at 50kW.
This is happening in the Seattle area with DC chargers. Look at Tesla’s map. There are several stations that are construction complete, but awaiting the city to finish permitting for final hookup. The 250 kW charger with 12 stalls near me was finished in roughly 3 weeks by Tesla. The permitting process caused this station to take 8 months to actually activate…. Ballard, Northgate, Shoreline etc are impacted. Check them out in TMC
My work (MA) has been waiting for more than a year on permits to install 4 more (L2 6kw chargers). We have 8 chargers today and they're always full. It's completely ridiculous. Can you imagine if it took this long to get approval to install an electric dryer (which is also ~6kw) in your home.
Have been waiting to see this for a long time. 😀🔌 So rare we get to see inside these things. 😀
A great option for smaller communities where the EV infrastructure is a challenge and lower charging needs exist!
I have no need to know this detail, but I appreciate it anyway! Thanks.
*I never knew that mushroom was considered "exotic".*😉
Can’t wait to try it! That was my e golf charging spot when visiting from Denver.
This is so cool. I can't wait for future videos with this and future chargers.
I worked with power for data centers and equipment rooms. Those 480 feeds will jump if you give them a chance. Good to see that all due care was taken with that install.
Wish I had know about this last week when I drove through.
Is this charger open to the public? My permitting for home solar took a very long time. It took one year.
Kyle YOU ARE AWESOME!!!
480 is consider Low Voltage for Insdustrial Electricians in Canada. 3 Phase, 2 Phase does not matter, voltage is voltage.
As a Brit walking into a commercial space in Montreal I was surprised to find a 600V incomer (no guarding over the terminals inside the cabinet!), a transformer hung from the ceiling (yikes), and the lighting circuits running at 347V from before the transformer (wtf?)
@@rabidpb The lowest bidder won the contract!
@@uhjyuff2095 Don't get me wrong, the install was all to a good standard, and to code; it was just all strange and unfamiliar to my experience.
Great job everyone! I know you would not have released a video of a guy electrocuting himself but it still gave me anxiety to watch him hot wire that circuit. I shut off power to my entire house even just to change an outlet. 😂
This would be great in Australia for sites that only have 3 phase power and are not approved for massive current draw.
Kyle Really interested to learn of the duty cycle on your battery usage. And how much you derate power delivery when the battery is getting low. 19kW in and 150kW out means 8 to 1 when pulling 150kW from the battery.
You should see if you can get a review unit of the Point Guard energy 25kw DC fast charger for homes. I believe it can only output 25kw if pulling from solar, the battery stack, and AC... But 25kw DC at your house? I'm pretty much already sold.
What's your situation at home where Level 2 AC charging isn't adequate?
@@otm646 my situation at home is I'm a greedy bastard and tech nerd and want 25kw if it's available... But also since it's DC it can also support using the EV battery as an extension of the home battery at the same rate (they sell a 12.5kw and 25kw version). It doesn't seem to be working with any vehicles in North America yet but once it does it means I can have something like a 24kwh battery in the home stack and 84kwh in something like an Ioniq 5 to have access to massive amounts of power to last days if I need to in a winter storm.
Battery backed DC fast chargers operate in the same way as a water tower
Looking forward to the next video! And yeah, no mushrooms on pizza!
Kyle for Mayor
No then he'd have no time to do cool reviews dealing with the lunacy of paper shuffling. Should interview the city council however.
Where is the CAT6 Internet cable so Xcharge can perform remote diagnostics and firmware upgrades? Or, does this utilize WiFi or cellular for Internet connection?
I do work on LV systems,
can this be connected to a single phase power source? they are very common in usa
Pete Buttigieg needs to watch this too. Thanks for sharing.
He has nothing to do with local regulations!
is that the gen 2 that also has the option for 30kw of pv input?
With a 208 kWHr battery, one charge of a Ford F150 EV or a Cybertruck will deplete 50-80% of the storage battery. I do not think the storage battery is big enough! A 5 hour delay between large battery vehicles. Then we are stuck with a 19 kW battery charger! Please help me to understand otherwise.
Obviously, like he said, he may add additional battery storage depending on how it goes. And typical fast charging of 50-60% of the cars battery, so 200 will do 7 Tesla's if they come back to back to back. I don't think they will get that many in a day.
@@MH-Tesla Most Tesla owners charge their batteries to 80% and typically from 10-20%, that's 65% of the installed battery capacity. 65% of a typical battery energy is 65-150kWhr, or 42-97.5kWhr. The 208kWhr battery will probably be discharged to a minimum of 10% so that is 180kWhr maximum. The number of cars that can be accommodated is the 1.9-2.8 vehicles since they said presently that they can only charge cars or recharge the storage battery at any time, so the 19kW charging is only applicable when the charging station is not charging a vehicle. In general, customers do not go to a charging station to do a partial charge, they do it because it charges much quickly than a home charging or they are on a trip away from their home. Please check my math.
Please don't forget that those 19kW are also active while the cars are charging, reducing the draw on the battery.
I prefer to calculate this way around: The battery can roughly supply full power for 80 minutes, with one recovered every 7.5 minutes of idle time. With a typical charge session taking about 20 minutes, that would be 4 cars in quick succession.
Please don't forget that those 19kW are also active while the cars are charging, reducing the draw on the battery.
I prefer to calculate this way around: The battery can roughly supply full power for 80 minutes, with one recovered every 7.5 minutes of idle time. With a typical charge session taking about 20 minutes, that would be 4 cars in quick succession.
@@MH-Tesla he needs a bigger transformer to open up more capacity. For some reason I saw a 6KVA transformer but I guess that gets the unit up and running for now.
Would it allow users/you to lower the amperage? Or its got to be only in the car (if available)
Jordan - Sko Buffs.
Kyle flips the switch on the charger, than the lights in Fort Collins go out...😛
I felt this wonderful feeling in my mind, body and soul when she said “I prefer kislux
Nice!
Are you allowing public access? plugshare/others?
Yummy floor pizza. 😋
Marquardt Station
how much?
welcome to red tape gov.....:)
where are the AUTEL DC fast charger?
I wonder how the costs of the 200kwh of batteries, their replacement cycle costs and the added cost of the unit itself to have them - factors in to the cost of charging. I can only imagine that the unit with the electronics and batteries is crazy, crazy expensive. I mean the charging unit itself/batteries has its own dedicated HVAC cooling and heating system. I am not exactly sure how all of this is considered "green" and environmentally friendly.
And its broken
Maybe I'm overly paranoid, but I would edit out the portion of the video where one of the Winn guys uses his admin code on the charger.
It's just 123456 for initial commissioning, you're supposed to change it.
I really love your taste and style always so chic. My faves would be the kislux leather backpack and the Swarovski pave diamond ring so gorg. Thank you for your recommendations.
"I'm from the Government and I'm here to help."
If you are an underachiever in life, are afraid of anything new or different, have a fragile ego, and have a punitive mindset, you'll do great as an employee working in Government.
Bingo. Well said
Way too long of a video!!!
I’m from the government, I’m here to help… oh crap.
I’m sure you know the demographic well for those parking in that area, but it always upsets me to see construction work and staging of materials taking up multiple handicap parking spots. You missed an opportunity to lead by example there
27:45 You aren't doing the math correctly. You have 26.6kW: 480v * 50a * .8 power factor (Assumed) * .8 demand factor derate * 1.732 = 26603.52 watts
40:26 deja vu
12:33 skip the beginning rant
Wanna skip the 🤡 permit garbage here’s where its done..hopefully 10:45
Warning they still mentioned permits a bit.
Sounds like an episode at a city council meeting should be forthcoming.
I decided to look up demand charges for my area (Huntsville, Alabama) and was pleasantly surprised to see that the city utility has a dedicated rate plan for DC fast chargers (with no demand charges) for $0.23 / kWh. We do get power from TVA, so our base rate is already pretty low compared to a lot of the country.
Really! I'm in the Huntsville area. I had no idea. Then they are having a hefty markup on the Chargepoint units near the hospital at 42 cents/kWh.
@@Heartless_13224 That’s one of the reasons I will always try to charge at a supercharger before anywhere else, the ones by Trader Joe’s are $0.34 / kWh. They’re installing some new ones in Madison as well, so hopefully they’re similarly priced.
Cable swap segment at around 40 min repeats itself. FYI
Maybe remove it with RUclips editor?
He is really excited about NACS okay.
This is what it’s about! The passion shows!! Blessings to you and your team for all that you’ll do for the community!!!!!!!
Kyle and out of spec crew(s) you guys rock. This is a great solution for more and more applications that are needed in more remote areas that can not or don't have that big power requirement available.
I am a fast charger manufacturer, please contact me privately if you need any help.
Augh, so cool! Quite unfortunate how FoCo fights these things every step of the way. Like you said, you’d think they’d help but apparently not. Regardless though, what at neat installation!
Nice to know that crazy levels of red tape exists outside of California. But at least your contractor waded through all the red tape for you.
Just curious, how much time did they have to spend on getting all the permits? Would it cost thousands of dollars more for a non-sponsored install?
The team from Winn Marion are amazing. Great explanation
I am a fast charger manufacturer, please contact me privately if you need any help.
pretty ironic that you only get 19kW at the "powerhouse". Pretty sure I have that capacity in my apartment. Probably will be a bit bulky in my living room though.
I saw a 6KVA isolation transformer. They tried to input more and that could be a code violation so they need to put the right size fuses in the disconnect.
Cool to see! Looks like nice hardware and a good solution for the many areas of the country with the high demand charges.
If it's any consolation, South Dakota is way worse. My wife and I went up there for our anniversary last month. The Cadillac dealership in Spearfish installed fast chargers, then the power company decided to charge them over $1700/month to use them. They ended up having to disable them. The only other one in Spearfish hasn't worked in months. There are only 2 or 3 fast chargers in Rapid City. You would think that a state whose biggest industry is tourism would take EV infrastructure more seriously. I live out in the sticks in Fort Morgan, CO and we have a 350kw Electrify America charger at the local Walmart. I almost exclusively charge at home since electricity here is only about 8.2 cents per kwh.
A deep dive on the delays in the all the pre-installation steps would be very very helpful for anyone else thinking about deploying DC fast charging at their business.
Wow I'm super impressed with this product. It's a brilliant idea and I can see a number of perfect use cases for it. One step at a time I suppose.
The smaller cable for the NACS appears to be achieved by using "dual conductors" for DC+ and DC-, which allows for tighter packaging and greater flexibility.
In my time at QC Charge, we used a similar approach for our 40A cables, which were thinner and more flexible than most other 40A cables cables on the market at the time. On those, rather than using a single 8 AWG conductor for each line, it used 2 paralleled 12 AWG conductors (which works out to ~9 AWG combined).
Kyle, this is your best episode ever for us engineering nerds. Clearly, it’s not a trivial installation.
I love these how-it-happened videos. Thanks guys and thanks to XCharge for their on-site support and explanations. And thanks also to Winn-Marion for their expertise. The battery-buffered systems are essential for getting a rural area on the charging network and especially for using the 220V grid tie which reduces grid-side equipment costs and high load charges.
I am a fast charger manufacturer, please contact me privately if you need any help.
These guys are epic. They stayed until after 9pm to get this all sorted out. The crew deserves some Odell’s Easy Street Wheat and some (original recipe) Fat Tire.
Kyle, for 3 phase power you get to multiply by square root of 3. So 40A at 480 will supply up to 33 KVA.
Yes, but I think they are piggy backing the HVAC on the same circuit so the charge rate needs to account for charging with HVAC active
I'm thinking when the installer said they were bringing over 4 conductors and the HVAC transformer is 277V that it might be single phase L1-L2 for the charger and L3-N for the transformer primary (or whatever combination of line-line and line-neutral they chose)
@@desmo200WAG is the charger is balanced across all three phases and the transformer pulling on one phase. Would have helped a little bit if that transformer was 480 single phase primary but they may not have thought about that where the system was designed. Then you wouldn't need the neutral either.
the isolation transformer is rated at 6kva. I wonder what size fuses they used in that disconnect as to avoid a code violation.
As european it seems crazy to me to have a single phase to feed a 19kW system.
Taxpayer money wasted in endless bureaucracy in permitting, if we really want to scale EVs, this has to change, quickly.
Wow . Not a good look with a arc flash . At 480 volt that is very serious . A bit embarrassing for the crew. Mistakes happen but when they do with electrical it can be deadly .
I don't understand why the charging cables are not on a reel type setup so the cable is not accessible when not in use
How do you prevent the copper thieves from disabling in such a remote location ❓
One silverado ev needs a deep charge, and everyone else has to wait a day
Can it paired with solar to directly DC charge the battery bank?
It can handle up to 30KW PV input
What is the price of this Xcharge NZS🤔
Welcome to every municipality in the USA. It takes much longer to get permits than to build. As a developer, it took us six years to get building permits in one City.
Great work as always peeps. Lol at Kyle saying mushrooms on pizza was to exotic 😂
And here I am having been all proud of myself for installing my own Wall Charger this past week. 🤣
Kyle makes me know way more about this stuff then I'd ever need! Which I need! but I don't need it. Love it.
Woo Hoo. Been waiting for this to drop!
I need to get Xcharge paired up with Green Mountain Power in VT. I'm sure they'd love to utilize the battery storage to offset peak demand, and we'd get faster charging in rural locations to boot!
So cool! Build a OOS charge park 😄
He's playing with that idea out at his new garage office space.
Kyle, 40A on 3-phase 480V breaker is 33.3 kW, not 19.2 kW. Three phase provides more power than single phase at the same voltage and current. So you could probably set the charger to draw more power for recharging without overloading the circuit, assuming you aren't running into a panel limitation.
i watched the whole video love it
So what happens if you just go ahead and install it - just replacing one charger with another, honest!
I would agree, it's simply a hardware swap. Your electrical code locally is not going to have anything about POU battery storage. You're simply swapping one Level 2 charger for another (electrically).
Depending on the AHJ they could red tag it and lock it out. California the could report to the CSLB (Contractors State License Board) and go after the contractor(s) for performing unpermitted work. Then make you get a permit and make your life a bigger hell through that process and the inspection stages.
what happened to the xcharge you installed in your house/garage, you said the'd be a follow up...stocked up for that
This is so exciting to watch!
Perfect example of government getting in the way of itself. I'm sorry you had to deal with those headaches, but this is what it's like for business. Government regulations and bureaucracy dictate everything. You exemplified this when explaining that you ended up installing this in a weird spot because of everything you'd have to do to place it somewhere more logical.
On a bright note, thank you for helping me understand why so many chargers in S. Colorado and parts of NM are up to 60kW instead of fast chargers. I couldn't understand it. Also, as I found out when I bought my Lightning; GM for the win. Outside of Tesla, they have the most dependable and potentially only "fast" chargers in smaller cities. In fact, the Ford dealer I purchased my LER from had me go to the GM dealer for my first charge. Before Tesla became available, there was a time where GM dealers were my only option to charge in a 60 mile radius.
All I can think of is the harsh site review videos and now installing your own unit not in the most optimal location.
The utilities rate structure isn't gonna change. The whole point of that type of rate is to get commercial consumers to manage their own peak use... with on-site storage. If you're going to add more DC fast charging, install a battery bank or get more of the integrated chargers like your spotlighting in this video.
Permitting should be easier, I agree with that.
You have an ‘EV PARKING ONLY’ sticker on the front, shouldn’t it instead say ‘EV ACTIVE CHARGING >100KW ONLY!’? 😎😇
So what happens after two or three fast charges when the battery pack is depleted? Does it become a 19kw charger ?
Neat, you can test how bypassing the thermal throttling on the cable impacts the charger performance on your own hardware now.
Kyle, the Volts x Amps calculation is a little different for 3 phase. Your continuous rating for a 50a 480v 3 phase circuit should be around 33kW at unity power factor.
As I understand from the video the charger is not using 3 phase but just mono-phase. Which seems crazy because with 3 phase they could use the full 33kW of the connection. But it must be a limitation of the charger.
@@Roeland54 Single phase is 277v which they said they use for aux power in a transformer to bring it down to 240. That's why they need a neutral at the charger. The charger itself should be 3 phase(just like the other non-battery models).
Was the L2 charger there previously single or 3 phase?
@@boostav they pulled new wire for the dcfc
Cool documentation and while install and congratulation on the new charger 💪 Question: Is the Tesla NACS Plug&Charge actually the Damm complex mechanism that CCS with ISO 15118 or is it something else?
42:34: FORT COLLINS, COLORADO: Area man wearing a CU Boulder Hat was involved in a power outage at a Colorado State University facility.
Permitting is where "local control" is a problem. You need to lobby your state legislature to impose state wide permitting rules for DC fast charging. California has done this for roof top solar installations because so many "local control" permitting rules and delays were getting in the way.
Out of Spec Reviews did not follow its own advice with respect to protecting chargers from vandalism. The cables do not retract into a shielded enclosure, and the power shutoff switch box is right there in the open instead of in a secured cabinet. Make the vandals wonder if they might get electrocuted.
This charger was clearly designed with a 3 x 400V + N net connection in mind. A 400V system also provides 230V without transformer. So the external transformer is only needed because of the 480v net. Maybe this is also the explanation of the limited charge rate of 19kW while the 40A at 480v is able tot deliver 33kW of power. Looks like they are leaving some power on the table here. But this may be a limitation of the charger.
It looks like the electrical co-op around fort Collins is part of the tri-state co-op. That's where they get their power from. Our co-op in Taos New Mexico broke away from tri-state about 6 7 years ago. Many co-ops in Colorado have broken away since but we were the first to break off from tri-state. Tri-State is a sinking ship.
Bureaucracy is killing innovation everywhere, easily the biggest barrier to us having nice things and in most cases we get very little in return for that.