Yes there are four transitions on the output and they form an H bridge. Basically by turning different transistors off and on you can pulse the power for the PWM driving of the motor and you can change the current direction. There’s a standard CV for enabling DC control if it is turned off. The decoder tells it is running on DC by the lack of DCC signal on the track. I was interested that the new decoder had different transistors (FETs) which suggests they changed the part spec possibly due to issues with the earlier one. May be they needed to increase the current they could cope with.
Hi Bill. You may know that Dapol also built the class 21/29 which worked in Scotland having been moved up there from the east coast where it was not terribly successful. It was very similar in appearance to the class 22 which worked on the western region. As a young train spotter, I saw the 22 many times and when I took up railway modelling the class 22 became one of my favourites I understand that the 21/29 was 5 feet shorter but looks very similar.
Hi Bill, I’ve got two Dapol Class 68’s in DRS livery for my “nuclear trains”, although DCC sound fitted. They are lovely models, I’m sure you won’t be disappointed.
Looks like a nice model. It would have been nice to see the motor and gears set-up just out of curiosity but I understand why you wouldn't want to take it further apart than you needed to. The thing that would bug me though if it was mine would be having the cab lighting on all the time! Cab lights are only there to be used when stationary at night. I'm sure we've all seen what happens when you try looking out of a train window at night with the interior lights on!
It’s just experience. I can tell you everything in a new car. They aren’t really more complicated just different. We used to have carburettors and distributors and points and coils and vacuum advance. Petrol cars are still basically the same except we have injection, electronic timing, spark generation, advance retard and air flow all managed by the computer. But it achieves the same aim getting the right fuel and air mixture and the right timing.
Great analysis and repair here Bill . How blissfully simple the electronics were on the old Hornby 22's . I can understand the comments you made about the new technology .
I'd be concerned about why the chip burnt out in the first place? but, if it runs OK But hopefully, it was just a faulty component. Lovely looking loco.
This was my First thought. With the new component fitted, the model ran okay on your layout. Could there be an issue with the customer's power supply? Could the fault have resulted from the lighting issue?
Sounds like you have the same level of interest to DCC as I do! I can see the advantages of DCC but having many older locos going back to original Hornby Dublo via Lima, Airfix and Triang, there are too many potential costs and issues to converting my fleet. Also I have found that some DCC Fitted locos run fine on DC whereas (I assume) different chips cause different issues or non running until replaced with a blanking plate.
Nice repair! Most of the newer Dapol models are great, and I’ve heard nothing but positive about the Class 68, Manor, GWR Mogul, Hawthorn Leslie, and the Class 52!
I do a lot of conversions for the club I belong to including club members. While I do not charge for the installation, I do make a point of stating that if there is a subsequent failure, there is NO warranty unless there is no visible signs of damage on the board. I always use reputable suppliers too who respect warranty for the odd decoder failure but invariably the failure will occur prior to to or at installation and not after. A failure after installation and successful testing will almost ALWAYS be the fault of the modeller operating the locomotive and I make sure my customers are made aware of that before I do the work. I know this as I have been in the hobby for more than 30 years and in DCC for at least 20 including 3 years with DCCConcepts in R&D. I stick with reliable brands like ZEN, TCS, Digitrax, ESU and ZIMO. I will never purchase, recommend nor use a Hornby decoder and actively encourage buying only DCC Ready Dapol or Bachmann locos.
It is a nice model of one of my favourite locomotives some nice detail on it. Hey Bill the Tardis took some spotting this week...LOL ATB keep up the good work.
DCC work of the devil , Bill- stick to DC to appeal to all us luddites The 68 is lovely , one of my best models . The decoration is superb . I have a DRS one and a TPE one . Definitely recommended . I think they do a 21 and 29 too which I haven’t got but would keep an eye on , being something Scottish
I watched a b&w video of the service from Quenne St to Mallaig made in the very early 60’s. I spotted a couple of the old WHR green&Cream coaches. We’re the McVitte’s prototypical ? Another great video Bill
Though some DCC chipped locos run on DC, I found that they run quieter on DC with a blanking plate. Something to do with the decoder having to convert DC current to alternating current then back to DC for the motor, but I'm not sure. Very nice loco.
I think you are going to have to bite the bullet and get a DCC setup. I know that within a few days it will all be clear to you because you have the mental acuities to make short work of the learning curve. You are very young compared to me and if I can pick it up in a few days I know you can plus it is the future wither we like it or not and I don't, lol. The thing I don't like is the price and we are paying for R & D because the boards themselves cost them next to nothing. The microchip that is blown cost $1.48 (1.19 Pound sterling) but you have to but 500 of them, LMAO. The repair was due to your decerning eye as always so hats off to you. Great repair and running session, Jersey Bill
Bill, please don’t be scared of DCC. Your ability to diagnose faults visually and with a multimeter is outstanding, I apply your techniques on my fleet now. I am sure you could become very competent readily. I started DCC three years ago to get sound and controlled slow running. You may not relish sound and your locos run so smoothly after your attention to them, it may appear unnecessary. DCC can be frustrating, the faults are often binary - locos just stop or only the sound comes on, and you cannot see the root cause. I do agree that DCC is not cheap , however, but not outrageously so in my opinion.
I have 2 of these running in DCC never gad a problem altho saying that one of their class 29s has a motor squeel at high speed and ive hardly run it. Get a Gaugemaster Prodigy unit. Easy to use and the controller handset you can run locos by buttons or the dial for speed etc. Nice video
Bill, if you have a computer, which I presume you do for video production, don’t get a DCC controller but a. Sprog 2 or 3. A lot cheaper. And there’s freely downloadable software which makes doing CVs etc a lot easier.
Hope you gad a wee dram last night. Have never seen one of those locos neither real or model. Similar to the 29 Dcc could be a quagmire to a guy like myself but will have a go with the decoders I bought ( no sound) for US$30 each
The Dapol 68s are lovely models and run very sweetly (or at least mine does) but the sound doesn’t do justice to the prototype. Maybe I’m spoiled by driving the real thing on a regular basis. I recently bought a Dapol Manor which again is an excellent model which is, I feel, unfairly overlooked because of the Accurascale version. It’s a very smooth and powerful performer which handles my rake of 30 HAA MGR wagons with no problem.
Hi Bill. IMO, modern Dapol locos are excellent VFM. I have a couple of class 59s, a Manor & a Western, all of which run smoothly, are well-detailed, and seem to have reasonably robust mechanisms (check our some of SamsTrains' Dapol reviews for more info). However, I agree that earlier models are of questionable quality and better left to Dapol enthusiasts. Until recently, Dapol really struggled with getting its tension lock couplings to work correctly, too. Does Shug fancy a job as the "New" K9?
I know that DCC fitted locos are able to run on DC systems, but it's not what they are designed to do. Personally I change the CV setting in my own DCC fitted locos that disables the ability to run on DC. If I ever feel the need to run any of my locos on DC, I will remove the dcoder and re-fit the blanking plate. That allows my loco to run on DC and also prevents any possibility of damaging the decoder.
whether DCC or DC I have a set of blanking plates for all the various DCC plug fittings so I can at least remove a decoder, fit the blank and test the loco in DC mode to check for proper function, shorts, overcurrents etc independent of the decoder. If all that's fine, then one can generally surmise the problem is with the decoder. I had one Australian locomotive come in with the onboard PCB having blown a PCB fuse. Now one would expect that that fuse is designed to save the decoder in the event of a short or spike, but it did not. There is absolutely no need for manufacturers of locomotives to create complex PCBs for their locomotives. Its does not add to the locomotive performance; it increases the locomotives complexity and cost and makes it damn difficult to repair as PCBs are rarely a replacement spare.
Hi Bill. You may know that Dapol also built the class 21/29 which worked in Scotland having been moved up there from the east coast where it was not terribly successful. It was very similar in appearance to the class 22 which worked on the western region. As a young train spotter, I saw the 22 many times and when I took up railway modelling the class 22 became one of my favourites I understand that the 21/29 was 5 feet shorter but looks very similar.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
That is just about the smoothest, quietist running loco I have heard on your layout.
There are so many great vantage points on your layout, really impressive.
Yes there are four transitions on the output and they form an H bridge. Basically by turning different transistors off and on you can pulse the power for the PWM driving of the motor and you can change the current direction. There’s a standard CV for enabling DC control if it is turned off. The decoder tells it is running on DC by the lack of DCC signal on the track.
I was interested that the new decoder had different transistors (FETs) which suggests they changed the part spec possibly due to issues with the earlier one. May be they needed to increase the current they could cope with.
Hi Bill. You may know that Dapol also built the class 21/29 which worked in Scotland having been moved up there from the east coast where it was not terribly successful. It was very similar in appearance to the class 22 which worked on the western region. As a young train spotter, I saw the 22 many times and when I took up railway modelling the class 22 became one of my favourites I understand that the 21/29 was 5 feet shorter but looks very similar.
Hi Bill, I’ve got two Dapol Class 68’s in DRS livery for my “nuclear trains”, although DCC sound fitted. They are lovely models, I’m sure you won’t be disappointed.
Looks like a nice model. It would have been nice to see the motor and gears set-up just out of curiosity but I understand why you wouldn't want to take it further apart than you needed to. The thing that would bug me though if it was mine would be having the cab lighting on all the time! Cab lights are only there to be used when stationary at night. I'm sure we've all seen what happens when you try looking out of a train window at night with the interior lights on!
It's a bit like lifting the bonnet on a modern car Bill.....can't see anything i recognise.
It’s just experience. I can tell you everything in a new car. They aren’t really more complicated just different. We used to have carburettors and distributors and points and coils and vacuum advance. Petrol cars are still basically the same except we have injection, electronic timing, spark generation, advance retard and air flow all managed by the computer. But it achieves the same aim getting the right fuel and air mixture and the right timing.
Great channel for information about how to fix problems on engine deltic our steam I wish I had the now how to fix things
What puts me of dcc is the cost of converting all my locomotives
if not concerned about sound witch gets irritating after 2o minutes anyway cost is around 12 quid a loco
Great analysis and repair here Bill . How blissfully simple the electronics were on the old Hornby 22's . I can understand the comments you made about the new technology .
I'd be concerned about why the chip burnt out in the first place? but, if it runs OK But hopefully, it was just a faulty component. Lovely looking loco.
This was my First thought. With the new component fitted, the model ran okay on your layout. Could there be an issue with the customer's power supply? Could the fault have resulted from the lighting issue?
Sounds like you have the same level of interest to DCC as I do! I can see the advantages of DCC but having many older locos going back to original Hornby Dublo via Lima, Airfix and Triang, there are too many potential costs and issues to converting my fleet. Also I have found that some DCC Fitted locos run fine on DC whereas (I assume) different chips cause different issues or non running until replaced with a blanking plate.
Nice repair! Most of the newer Dapol models are great, and I’ve heard nothing but positive about the Class 68, Manor, GWR Mogul, Hawthorn Leslie, and the Class 52!
I do a lot of conversions for the club I belong to including club members. While I do not charge for the installation, I do make a point of stating that if there is a subsequent failure, there is NO warranty unless there is no visible signs of damage on the board. I always use reputable suppliers too who respect warranty for the odd decoder failure but invariably the failure will occur prior to to or at installation and not after. A failure after installation and successful testing will almost ALWAYS be the fault of the modeller operating the locomotive and I make sure my customers are made aware of that before I do the work. I know this as I have been in the hobby for more than 30 years and in DCC for at least 20 including 3 years with DCCConcepts in R&D. I stick with reliable brands like ZEN, TCS, Digitrax, ESU and ZIMO. I will never purchase, recommend nor use a Hornby decoder and actively encourage buying only DCC Ready Dapol or Bachmann locos.
DCC. Danger and Considerable Cost.
It is a nice model of one of my favourite locomotives some nice detail on it. Hey Bill the Tardis took some spotting this week...LOL ATB keep up the good work.
i got 2 silverfox ones on hornby chassis 1 in blue and 1 in green, less hassle with hornby ringfields.
Got the Dapol class 68 “Astute” in DRS livery it’s a nice locomotive Bill great runner
DCC work of the devil , Bill- stick to DC to appeal to all us luddites
The 68 is lovely , one of my best models . The decoration is superb . I have a DRS one and a TPE one . Definitely recommended . I think they do a 21 and 29 too which I haven’t got but would keep an eye on , being something Scottish
I watched a b&w video of the service from Quenne St to Mallaig made in the very early 60’s. I spotted a couple of the old WHR green&Cream coaches.
We’re the McVitte’s prototypical ?
Another great video Bill
Though some DCC chipped locos run on DC, I found that they run quieter on DC with a blanking plate. Something to do with the decoder having to convert DC current to alternating current then back to DC for the motor, but I'm not sure. Very nice loco.
Lovely loco
I think you are going to have to bite the bullet and get a DCC setup. I know that within a few days it will all be clear to you because you have the mental acuities to make short work of the learning curve. You are very young compared to me and if I can pick it up in a few days I know you can plus it is the future wither we like it or not and I don't, lol. The thing I don't like is the price and we are paying for R & D because the boards themselves cost them next to nothing. The microchip that is blown cost $1.48 (1.19 Pound sterling) but you have to but 500 of them, LMAO. The repair was due to your decerning eye as always so hats off to you. Great repair and running session, Jersey Bill
Bill, please don’t be scared of DCC. Your ability to diagnose faults visually and with a multimeter is outstanding, I apply your techniques on my fleet now. I am sure you could become very competent readily. I started DCC three years ago to get sound and controlled slow running. You may not relish sound and your locos run so smoothly after your attention to them, it may appear unnecessary. DCC can be frustrating, the faults are often binary - locos just stop or only the sound comes on, and you cannot see the root cause. I do agree that DCC is not cheap , however, but not outrageously so in my opinion.
Hi Bill Never had Dapol seems a lovely runner
I have 2 of these running in DCC never gad a problem altho saying that one of their class 29s has a motor squeel at high speed and ive hardly run it. Get a Gaugemaster Prodigy unit. Easy to use and the controller handset you can run locos by buttons or the dial for speed etc. Nice video
Bill, if you have a computer, which I presume you do for video production, don’t get a DCC controller but a. Sprog 2 or 3. A lot cheaper. And there’s freely downloadable software which makes doing CVs etc a lot easier.
I had a wee dram last night…keep your sanity Bill, DCC is a whole other ball game. Yes, that is quite a nice looking model.
You should try a Hornby hm7000 decoder cvs are easy to change and if you mess up just reset to factory settings
Hope you gad a wee dram last night. Have never seen one of those locos neither real or model. Similar to the 29
Dcc could be a quagmire to a guy like myself but will have a go with the decoders I bought ( no sound) for US$30 each
The Dapol 68s are lovely models and run very sweetly (or at least mine does) but the sound doesn’t do justice to the prototype. Maybe I’m spoiled by driving the real thing on a regular basis.
I recently bought a Dapol Manor which again is an excellent model which is, I feel, unfairly overlooked because of the Accurascale version. It’s a very smooth and powerful performer which handles my rake of 30 HAA MGR wagons with no problem.
Hi Bill. IMO, modern Dapol locos are excellent VFM. I have a couple of class 59s, a Manor & a Western, all of which run smoothly, are well-detailed, and seem to have reasonably robust mechanisms (check our some of SamsTrains' Dapol reviews for more info). However, I agree that earlier models are of questionable quality and better left to Dapol enthusiasts. Until recently, Dapol really struggled with getting its tension lock couplings to work correctly, too.
Does Shug fancy a job as the "New" K9?
Nice looking Model Bill.
If the decoder is blown does that suggest an electrical fault that may resurface?
Layout is looking great.
Happy modelling
Someone let the magic smoke out
Ought one last year yet to have a good run
The lights are assigned by a CV or you may have the decoder the ( wrong way round ) ??? , had this exact thing happen to me..
I know that DCC fitted locos are able to run on DC systems, but it's not what they are designed to do. Personally I change the CV setting in my own DCC fitted locos that disables the ability to run on DC. If I ever feel the need to run any of my locos on DC, I will remove the dcoder and re-fit the blanking plate. That allows my loco to run on DC and also prevents any possibility of damaging the decoder.
Sorry Bill you may have been asked before but what size is your railway? In feet and inches please
Nine out of ten times it's the blanking chip that goes wrong on the class22 and the class52 westerns ten pounds buys you a new chip,😊😊.
whether DCC or DC I have a set of blanking plates for all the various DCC plug fittings so I can at least remove a decoder, fit the blank and test the loco in DC mode to check for proper function, shorts, overcurrents etc independent of the decoder. If all that's fine, then one can generally surmise the problem is with the decoder. I had one Australian locomotive come in with the onboard PCB having blown a PCB fuse. Now one would expect that that fuse is designed to save the decoder in the event of a short or spike, but it did not.
There is absolutely no need for manufacturers of locomotives to create complex PCBs for their locomotives. Its does not add to the locomotive performance; it increases the locomotives complexity and cost and makes it damn difficult to repair as PCBs are rarely a replacement spare.
Hi Bill. You may know that Dapol also built the class 21/29 which worked in Scotland having been moved up there from the east coast where it was not terribly successful. It was very similar in appearance to the class 22 which worked on the western region. As a young train spotter, I saw the 22 many times and when I took up railway modelling the class 22 became one of my favourites I understand that the 21/29 was 5 feet shorter but looks very similar.