Im worried that zangief is doomed to repeat the same trajectory as sf5. Starting off super weak, getting buffed and then having japan say hes far too strong and then spending the rest of the games lifecycle slowly getting nerfed to irrelevance
no one wants to play chun any more, that nerf last patch was overkill and chun did not deserve nerfs she was not that dominant. Meanwhile ken didnt get any nerfs
1:19:47 There is something so life-affirming about listening to Sajam chuckle and eat while Torimeshi guesses for his absolute fucking life in a tournament. Aw dangit!
Nice to see a Dhalsim, a Lily, a Rashid, a Zangief, and generally a bunch of strong players on non-Shotos even if the amount of Akuma right now makes sense.
@@iligyf Arguably speaks to how overall good balance in the game is right now even with two DLC characters who are on the stronger side just being released, but either way, yeah, weird. Thankfully in a pleasantly surprising way, but still weird (like how RUclips initially posted this reply underneath a completely different comment).
@@MandySweiss His ability to switch between absolutely pure, all-out rushdown and a more standard grappler style is amazing. It takes such different mindsets.
Fuck im going to evo for the first time as a gief main and that would be insane if a gief won. I'm not sure if snake is going to evo tho, but I def think Kobayan and itabashi are showing up
Its really refreshing seeing a strong Zangief player, they are so rare. Idk about the Akumas few use the entire moveset, some are even glued to the ground.
@@lt_johnmcclane zangief will 100% get nerfed. hopefully Akuma also get nerfed. As Sajam said, the big slow archetype grappler is usually not suppose to be very good in neutral because the whole idea of a slower grappler is to have bad neutral but when he hits a grab, it does big damage. Currently, Zangief neutral is way too good for his archetype. Akuma is also same thing. Akuma is suppose to be glass cannon shouto where the neutral buttons as not as good regular Shato's but when he confirms a combo, he is suppose to higher damage then regular shoto's. If Zangief is slow grappler, then Akuma is something like the "Slow heavy hitting Shoto". currently these weaknesses that are suppose exist don't exist which is why Zangief and Akuma end up being far beyond all other characters when played correctly.
@@dodang_9147 to be fair though Akuma has been wildly different in viability and even playability across every game he's in. There is no distinct formula for Akuma's buttons other than he hits you hard but he dies faster from your hard hitting buttons as well.
@@Altares_V he's just a shouto that hits hard. It is just that normally when you hit hard, your frame data start-up is slower. His is not. that is where imbalance is. His health doesn't balance the fact that his moves are more damaging and how many combo-routes he has with the amount of openers possible. I think it is fine to deal more damage but your opener moves(neutral buttons) should be worse/slower as a result of the damage. This makes character harder to access damage resulting in higher skill-floor to maximize his kit. This is absent in Akuma's kit. Zangief shares same problem now as grappler. They do have character that have high speed and high damage. for example Jamie and Manon have high damage and high speed. their trade off is that while they are perfect character.... or rather they're suppose idealize most powerful character in the game, they have drawback in term of time to access their abilities. You don't start on 5 medals as Manon right at the start and Jamie doesn't have 4 drinks at the start. that is how they balance "perfect characters". Akuma is like Jamie without drink factor. Zangief is like Manon without metal factor. that is why they're too strong.
This reminds me how funny it feels that Orochi Yashiro is one of the better characters in _KOF XIV_ despite this. So sometimes it just feels like it's just Gief they hate.
@zackguzman6531 that's such a horrible take. So all the great japanese players hate grapplers because they're bad? I hate gief because of how I have to play against him. So many turtle and it's just annoying. I main aki and have a great matchup its just boring. I honestly enjoy playing against the other grapplers in this game because they do more than just turtle.
@@hihihihihi7889what you call turtling is the gief not giving you free hits since most of the time gief has to be the one engaging. If you're engaging the gief you're digging you own grave don't get mad because you suck. That's like getting mad at Jo fir zoning when you back yourself into the corner the entire round. L take
The want to nerf geif has always been so confusing to me. You gotta play diffrent against him, and that's hype. I personally think grapplers, and especially Geif, are among the sickest to watch just because how diffrent they can be.
Tournament picks are very telling where the character gets placed in the tier list. Torimeshi tried everything with a weak Dhalsim pick but in the end nearly lost to basic Cammy playstyle.
Zangief is definitely a character now (likely top 10) and knee and headbutt is pretty much what got him there but damn does it suck ass to fight Lily, JP, Dhalsim, AKI, Chun, and Ed. Everyone else it's slight advantages and disadvantages except Juri, Honda, and Cammy where you can feel how good Zangief bullies these characters
@@carrytheflag225 I get it BUT a gief that knows what he’s doing is dumb scary, I main him and I know what I’m doing wrong when I play him. 50/50s to top players are true 50/50s and when the vocal majority at tournaments see gief they don’t want to blame a combo that takes “advanced skill” from a shoto. An SPD from a grappler is so easy to blame for being brainless because one move does a BnB worth of damage. I don’t like it but grapplers are just too easy to blame for what they do.
@asterhogan1 Gief is definitely not top 10. (I also main Gief.) I personally think he's smack dab in the middle. He has a lot of good stuff, but when he gets ran over, it hurts really bad.
@@marlinmurrell620 top 10 in a 23 character roster when top 15 can also be there makes gief a little harder to contest as top 10 BUT he just has kinda even matchups with tournament characters and top players have never had to deal with a decently tooled gief since SF5 season 2 and vanilla SF4 so I already see the writing on the wall that they’re gonna nerf him since Japan is the most vocal about grapplers
What i dont get with the latest version Akuma is the difference in the level 3 special as opposed to the previous iterations of his specials damage dealt. As for Shin Akuma, thats a total different story since he has way more to offer😢
Lily *IS* cheap. You can mark my words, Lily will continue to have a small playerbase and continue to receive buffs and become a demon like Zangief. Probably not too far off from now.
1:45:26 does anyone know how to do the dragon lash combo that tokido is doing, ive tried it but dragon lash is only +1 or 3(light and medium) so how does he combo in crouch light punch? thank you
if dragon lash hits someone crouching, ken gets an extra frame of advantage on hit or block; this lets you combo DR heavy punch into medium lash and continue
I feel like talking about any characters strengths and weaknesses or even trying to have an open discussion just gets really emotional in this game and pro player opinions get thrown around like gospel. You'll instantly be accused of downplay/up play. I'm glad you talk about it cause I don't think I have the mental stamina for it nor do I have the same multifaceted understanding of the characters
The key is to stop engaging once people start getting emotional. Mature adults who can have a discussion without getting emotional about the discussion are the only times it's actually worth having a discussion, since it just starts going in circles, so you can simply just say agree to disagree and move on. As long as you're not invested in being right, conversations are alot less taxing to have, and also easier to leave.
There's something about him that they don't even like, there's something about him that makes them want to fight. Hate is a very strong word, but he is getting on their nerves. They can't even use their jabs!
I hear the commentators using English words like "drive gauge" or English names of specific moves and I think - weren't these mechanics originally designed in Japan?
I don't think that's strange. There are many words in English that originally come from Spanish or French. It would be the same as English-speaking gaming product manufacturers naming their mice "Sensei" or "Zen". It is just for clarity and image. Rryu's technique has a Japanese name, and Guile's technique has always been Sonic Boom lol
@@UP3UP If Capcom did name these mechanics in English then sure, makes sense. And maybe there’s an advantage to doing so in today’s global game market.
Any and all knowledge of Streets I gained from this vod has been undone by the knowledge of sponsored call-outs. Sajam has done it again, he’s made me dumber with knowledge
Zangief isn't my main, but I've put a good amount of time in and don't think he's OP at all. If you've played him, you know how hard it can be sometimes to get in. Someone who knows Zangief will be jumping away constantly on you. I like fighting against him too, its a different kind of fight and its refreshing compared to all the Bisons and Akumas. Let him be competitive. I don't think he's S tier, but definitely around A now, which is great. If most characters are around A that's excellent balance.
I also hate Zangief. That stupid face he makes in character select, he gets to chunk a third of your life for guessing right, sometimes over and over, et cetera. Guy's just wack overall.
1:46:55 Brother wtf are you talking about 😭 playing a mid tier isn’t some virtuous struggle for players to go through it’s a choice you make based on how much you like/believe in/can perform as a character vs how important winning is to you. If you’d rather be broke that’s fine I guess? But for literally 1,000,000 dollars is playing a strong character really that horrible?
Do they still think he's top 1? .......... I'm amazed how an entire region can be wrong about a character who they wrote off in the beginning, and is now getting wrecked because no one bothered to "learn the matchup".
Im worried that zangief is doomed to repeat the same trajectory as sf5. Starting off super weak, getting buffed and then having japan say hes far too strong and then spending the rest of the games lifecycle slowly getting nerfed to irrelevance
I give it 5:1 odds of happening.
They already reverted the standing medium kick buff when they added Bison. It's gonna happen
Deserved and based nerfs
@@hihihihihi7889only the most cringe scrub would say this, fish emoji this kid
@@cosmic5665I'm sure all the pro japanese players that share my opinion pale in comparison to you
Sajam’s not even commentating at Topanga he must’ve retired
Bro's not even speaking Mandarin, fallen off smh
that shit had me DYING omfg and sajam just meekly going "I commentated CEO last week..." 😂😂😂
I didn't know Sako dropped chun for akuma, just fell to my knees in the streets
no one wants to play chun any more, that nerf last patch was overkill and chun did not deserve nerfs she was not that dominant. Meanwhile ken didnt get any nerfs
As a luke fan, seeing every single luke player drop him for akuma has been sad. Noah still got us though.
@@azizkash286heartbreaking shit
@DisastrousCake And as a Marisa main I've been feeling the pain as well
@@DisastrousCakedj main here, im glad the tier whores are gone but im sad the cooler combos are gone too like the optimal lvl 1 combo in the corner.
As a Zangief enjoyer, this has been an emotional roller coaster.
1:11:13 if someone did this to me id crumble into dust before they could finish their combo
Zangrief
Potemkin
Woetemkin
The double shimmy after that combo was an act of war good lord
Dhalsim is “just one of those rounds” characterized
1:19:47 There is something so life-affirming about listening to Sajam chuckle and eat while Torimeshi guesses for his absolute fucking life in a tournament.
Aw dangit!
Nice to see a Dhalsim, a Lily, a Rashid, a Zangief, and generally a bunch of strong players on non-Shotos even if the amount of Akuma right now makes sense.
Weird right, Dhalsim/Lily are mediocre characters..
@@iligyf Arguably speaks to how overall good balance in the game is right now even with two DLC characters who are on the stronger side just being released, but either way, yeah, weird. Thankfully in a pleasantly surprising way, but still weird (like how RUclips initially posted this reply underneath a completely different comment).
Note: Hibiki did not even attempt to stock wind once against Torimeshi in the first game.
Man, Hibiki just mops the floor with Shuto, the reactions were outrageous, building to guaranteed combos
@@MandySweiss His ability to switch between absolutely pure, all-out rushdown and a more standard grappler style is amazing. It takes such different mindsets.
I hope this zangief player wins EVO
Kobayan v Snake Eyez grand finals Gief mirror
Fuck im going to evo for the first time as a gief main and that would be insane if a gief won. I'm not sure if snake is going to evo tho, but I def think Kobayan and itabashi are showing up
@@ShjadeNexayre lets go!
japanese players love to complain when any character doesn’t play and defend exactly the same
Pretty much why they continued to rank JP SSS++++ tier is S1 despite his lagging tournament performances.
Its really refreshing seeing a strong Zangief player, they are so rare. Idk about the Akumas few use the entire moveset, some are even glued to the ground.
Take a shot every time Sajam says Demonic
I have to wonder how soon the alcohol poisoning would kick in given the Dhalsim vs. Cammy match alone.
So many young players in the game, good to see.
Torimeshi's use of Air Fireball to space/delay his falling Heavy Punch is amazing.
thank you for the watchalong i really love topanga league coverage bc i dont speak japanese and they play so different!!
that gachikun combo on tokido was insane
I love that gief is finally legit. I love him and love playing him, grapplers 4 lyfe.
We better enjoy it while it lasts
@@lt_johnmcclane zangief will 100% get nerfed. hopefully Akuma also get nerfed. As Sajam said, the big slow archetype grappler is usually not suppose to be very good in neutral because the whole idea of a slower grappler is to have bad neutral but when he hits a grab, it does big damage. Currently, Zangief neutral is way too good for his archetype. Akuma is also same thing. Akuma is suppose to be glass cannon shouto where the neutral buttons as not as good regular Shato's but when he confirms a combo, he is suppose to higher damage then regular shoto's. If Zangief is slow grappler, then Akuma is something like the "Slow heavy hitting Shoto". currently these weaknesses that are suppose exist don't exist which is why Zangief and Akuma end up being far beyond all other characters when played correctly.
@@dodang_9147 to be fair though Akuma has been wildly different in viability and even playability across every game he's in. There is no distinct formula for Akuma's buttons other than he hits you hard but he dies faster from your hard hitting buttons as well.
Legit? Not quite. Functional? In terms of season 1, yes.
@@Altares_V he's just a shouto that hits hard. It is just that normally when you hit hard, your frame data start-up is slower. His is not. that is where imbalance is. His health doesn't balance the fact that his moves are more damaging and how many combo-routes he has with the amount of openers possible. I think it is fine to deal more damage but your opener moves(neutral buttons) should be worse/slower as a result of the damage. This makes character harder to access damage resulting in higher skill-floor to maximize his kit. This is absent in Akuma's kit. Zangief shares same problem now as grappler.
They do have character that have high speed and high damage. for example Jamie and Manon have high damage and high speed. their trade off is that while they are perfect character.... or rather they're suppose idealize most powerful character in the game, they have drawback in term of time to access their abilities. You don't start on 5 medals as Manon right at the start and Jamie doesn't have 4 drinks at the start. that is how they balance "perfect characters". Akuma is like Jamie without drink factor. Zangief is like Manon without metal factor. that is why they're too strong.
Glad to see more of these!
Gief: *Becomes a functioning character, he's actually strong now and isn't fully bugged out*
Japan: "Oh boy, time to hit him with the nerf hammer!"
The crazy thing is that even after like a dozen nerfs, they STILL would be asking for more if someone like Itabashi is still doing very well.
japan and their hateboner for grapplers makes me sad, hope some day we'll see characters like alex again
It legit makes me upset and i literally have no idea why anyone would hate gief lol
bc they’re bad and/or inexperienced
This reminds me how funny it feels that Orochi Yashiro is one of the better characters in _KOF XIV_ despite this. So sometimes it just feels like it's just Gief they hate.
@zackguzman6531 that's such a horrible take. So all the great japanese players hate grapplers because they're bad? I hate gief because of how I have to play against him. So many turtle and it's just annoying. I main aki and have a great matchup its just boring. I honestly enjoy playing against the other grapplers in this game because they do more than just turtle.
@@hihihihihi7889what you call turtling is the gief not giving you free hits since most of the time gief has to be the one engaging. If you're engaging the gief you're digging you own grave don't get mad because you suck. That's like getting mad at Jo fir zoning when you back yourself into the corner the entire round. L take
Big fan of these topanga reviews
I love how Shuto and Hibiki have exactly the same MR and are rank 22.
1:10:50 I've never seen Tokido styled on that hard before, what a round
The want to nerf geif has always been so confusing to me. You gotta play diffrent against him, and that's hype. I personally think grapplers, and especially Geif, are among the sickest to watch just because how diffrent they can be.
Fr I like the playstyle diversity
I don't think I've ever watched an SF6 stream where everyone and their moms had 2000+ MR before today. Japan just built different.
love these watchalong videos - learning so damn much
The big brain plays against torimeshi where crazy. When he baited that up drill and teleported away was beautiful
Tournament picks are very telling where the character gets placed in the tier list. Torimeshi tried everything with a weak Dhalsim pick but in the end nearly lost to basic Cammy playstyle.
Hibiki is so crazy man, I feel like more then most, he really makes his character look like the best in the game which is wild
Gachikun is my japanese GOAT after that round bro that was mad funny
Okay, after Kobayan washed everyone in the recent Topangr, maybe Zangief is really good
When asked to choose a character that can beat Hikaru's A.K.I. opponent, almost no professional would choose Zangief.
Zangief is definitely a character now (likely top 10) and knee and headbutt is pretty much what got him there but damn does it suck ass to fight Lily, JP, Dhalsim, AKI, Chun, and Ed. Everyone else it's slight advantages and disadvantages except Juri, Honda, and Cammy where you can feel how good Zangief bullies these characters
Nah bro top 10? with no defense? I refuse to believe that. He's just not an ass character now.
@@carrytheflag225 I get it BUT a gief that knows what he’s doing is dumb scary, I main him and I know what I’m doing wrong when I play him. 50/50s to top players are true 50/50s and when the vocal majority at tournaments see gief they don’t want to blame a combo that takes “advanced skill” from a shoto. An SPD from a grappler is so easy to blame for being brainless because one move does a BnB worth of damage. I don’t like it but grapplers are just too easy to blame for what they do.
LiKelY a ToP tEn
@asterhogan1 Gief is definitely not top 10. (I also main Gief.) I personally think he's smack dab in the middle. He has a lot of good stuff, but when he gets ran over, it hurts really bad.
@@marlinmurrell620 top 10 in a 23 character roster when top 15 can also be there makes gief a little harder to contest as top 10 BUT he just has kinda even matchups with tournament characters and top players have never had to deal with a decently tooled gief since SF5 season 2 and vanilla SF4 so I already see the writing on the wall that they’re gonna nerf him since Japan is the most vocal about grapplers
I think whatever they did for Zangief is perfect. If Ken, JP wnd Luke can enjoy being OP for the whole season, we should leave Zangief alone for now
I also have old man-reactions (complimentary)
Kobayan kinda look like zangief
Kobayan looks like gigachad, ngl.
Yes! More Topanga!
Hibiki's reactions are what is really OP. His ability to confirm situations in general is absurd.
What i dont get with the latest version Akuma is the difference in the level 3 special as opposed to the previous iterations of his specials damage dealt. As for Shin Akuma, thats a total different story since he has way more to offer😢
Old Man Reactions (Respectfully)
Tokido has the face of a famous actor
It's rather wholesome to still see Sakonoto do well for me.
Lily *IS* cheap. You can mark my words, Lily will continue to have a small playerbase and continue to receive buffs and become a demon like Zangief. Probably not too far off from now.
I definitely think she's slept on, but cheap? I don't know about that one
Rashid kinda cheap with the tornado spam, but Kobayan (the Zangief player) is awesome at neutral, punished almost any mistake of Rashid.
Dem loyal fans. They sure be loyal!
Hikaru's confirms vs tokido were bonkers.
1:11:13 "im not here.... i said im not here bruh"🔥👀🔥👀🔥👀🔥👀🔥👀🔥👀
It's time for Zangief to dominate
If I got hit with that disrespectful ass double shimmy that Gachikun hit on Tokido, I'd be throwing hands.
Akuma players saying that gief is strong for this matchup keeps getting in instead of playing the fireball game
Cruel and unusual for him to get Tokidone like that at 1:10:55 😔
Japan Real Likes Kobayan's Zangief.
1:45:26 does anyone know how to do the dragon lash combo that tokido is doing, ive tried it but dragon lash is only +1 or 3(light and medium) so how does he combo in crouch light punch? thank you
if dragon lash hits someone crouching, ken gets an extra frame of advantage on hit or block; this lets you combo DR heavy punch into medium lash and continue
@violetblight69 I just tried that now and it work. thank you sm . I just couldn't figure it out lol
GachiCAN'T DO HIM LIKE THAT
1:11:00 the double shimme
I feel like talking about any characters strengths and weaknesses or even trying to have an open discussion just gets really emotional in this game and pro player opinions get thrown around like gospel. You'll instantly be accused of downplay/up play. I'm glad you talk about it cause I don't think I have the mental stamina for it nor do I have the same multifaceted understanding of the characters
The key is to stop engaging once people start getting emotional. Mature adults who can have a discussion without getting emotional about the discussion are the only times it's actually worth having a discussion, since it just starts going in circles, so you can simply just say agree to disagree and move on.
As long as you're not invested in being right, conversations are alot less taxing to have, and also easier to leave.
Gachikun is the goat and no one can tell me different. I nv seen someone get hit w the double shim sham. On TOKIDO of all ppl
1:21:38 The sacred Skadoosh tree! XD
I can't tell if it's because the only Kens I see play are Japanese, but that Costume 3 is no longer weird and jarring to me.
There's something about him that they don't even like, there's something about him that makes them want to fight. Hate is a very strong word, but he is getting on their nerves. They can't even use their jabs!
He's just so used to grabbing. Dudes not even fast, but he's definitely a cheetah.
I dont understand the problem with Zangief everyone is having (I am a JP player)
Shuto dropped Marisa aswell ? ahh that's a bummer who's even left ? Strider ?
strider dropped marsia for bison
I hear the commentators using English words like "drive gauge" or English names of specific moves and I think - weren't these mechanics originally designed in Japan?
Yeah I’ve always been confused by that, the in game announcer is also speaking English as well
I don't think that's strange. There are many words in English that originally come from Spanish or French.
It would be the same as English-speaking gaming product manufacturers naming their mice "Sensei" or "Zen". It is just for clarity and image.
Rryu's technique has a Japanese name, and Guile's technique has always been Sonic Boom lol
@@UP3UP If Capcom did name these mechanics in English then sure, makes sense. And maybe there’s an advantage to doing so in today’s global game market.
FIGHT BACK SAKO... PLEASE
Any and all knowledge of Streets I gained from this vod has been undone by the knowledge of sponsored call-outs. Sajam has done it again, he’s made me dumber with knowledge
I'm disappointed in Sako, us Shoto users have so much more tools to work with😂
I love watching geif, hate playing against him.
The matches are great but the "adjustements" on the players' photos are hideous. What in the Photoshop's Hell is that !?
Torimeshi dhalsim lost to zangief but beat cammy wtf
Is it just me, or does Akuma seem very bad against Zangeif
Zangief isn't my main, but I've put a good amount of time in and don't think he's OP at all. If you've played him, you know how hard it can be sometimes to get in. Someone who knows Zangief will be jumping away constantly on you. I like fighting against him too, its a different kind of fight and its refreshing compared to all the Bisons and Akumas. Let him be competitive. I don't think he's S tier, but definitely around A now, which is great. If most characters are around A that's excellent balance.
I'd be shocked if Zangief isn't nerfed into worst or near worst in the game, ala SF5.
Testing
People have Akuma S-Tier but I say he is to inconsistent in a stack tournament.
I also hate Zangief. That stupid face he makes in character select, he gets to chunk a third of your life for guessing right, sometimes over and over, et cetera. Guy's just wack overall.
Hikaru aka Aki ends up 1st in that bracket and that Gief is 2nd.
If they get zangief nerfed more than bison I'm gonna flip! I was him nuked! 😁
"😁" 🤮
@@cosmic5665"this guy used an emoji to convey an emotion, that is vile, better share my thought with an emoji" brainrot
1:46:55 Brother wtf are you talking about 😭 playing a mid tier isn’t some virtuous struggle for players to go through it’s a choice you make based on how much you like/believe in/can perform as a character vs how important winning is to you. If you’d rather be broke that’s fine I guess? But for literally 1,000,000 dollars is playing a strong character really that horrible?
Do they still think he's top 1?
..........
I'm amazed how an entire region can be wrong about a character who they wrote off in the beginning, and is now getting wrecked because no one bothered to "learn the matchup".
I prefer to watch Tekken, because hits fell more meaty.
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