Antennas Change over Time (
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Ed, ON6PQ, has been a ham for quite some time, as long as Dave actually, and has noticed that antenna guidlines have changed. He states that his old vertical antenna said that it should work against a ground or radial feild for best results but nowdays he sees that instrustions state that they require radial feilds. What changed?
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Edited by Callum Jakeman
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Dave, 1980 was 42 years ago..... :-( (I too remember it like it was yesterday...)
Yeah, I wish 1980 was 20 years ago. I'd be a good deal younger
I had to look to see if anyone else caught that. Good job.
How about 40 years ago
I had to look to see if anyone else caught that. Good job.
I will not argue, radicals DO help a vertical antenna. BUT, if you live over an iron ore bed that reaches up to less than 24" from the surface of your yard (like mine does), forget the radicals! You do not need them when you have an iron ore bed directly under your antennas to reflect your signal off of. Iron ore beds are identified by a red clay layer, and if you ever dug a hole in your yard and found red clay, you are extremely lucky.
I hydrodrilled three 10' ground copper pipes into that red clay in a triangle, put three tablespoons of copper sulfate into the hole, and packed that red clay back into the hole. The copper sulfate increased the ground conductivity until nature would take over. I strapped the grounds together with solder using a propane torch and 1" woven solder covered copper straps. I doubled up the remaining 1" woven straps and brought that into the shack and soldered it onto a copper bus bar I got from the telephone company service truck that was screwed into the back of my wooden desk. I go out every 6 months to re - do the strapping on the ground rods, but I have a great signal with only 80W out on H-F. I do not need radicals with an iron ore bed right beneath my feet.
Hi David, I had to laugh 😆 about your comment on Arizona. 40 years ago the ground water 💧 was about 30 feet, now it's around 80 feet. Anyway, I always enjoy your videos. WilC K7EMU
I'm a big fan of radials when it comes to ground mounted vertical monopoles at HF or lower. The more, the merrier. They *do not* need to be bare copper *or* buried. In fact, I believe insulated wire is superior (for longevity's sake). Simply use "lawn staples" every couple of feet to keep them on the ground. If you have an actual lawn, the grass will grow over them in a short time. Whether or not it is a good idea to have a ground rod driven and attached to the base of the vertical is something I have seen conflicting opinions on, but I believe it is beneficial, if not for your radiated signal, at least for lightning protection. Good video, Dave. 73 de WB4DW
Where's the leaning lamp?
Dave, this is your best video yet IMHO. Thanks for helping me grasp the whole "radial" discussion in a way allows me to digest all the different POVs on this subject. K7KS
Radials and ground planes were already a hot discussion topic in 1980. They've always been good to have, but not deemed necessary until everything went solid state and the conjugate match became hyercritical.
If you use a lightning arrester attached to a ground rod near the antenna, you have the shield (and any radials) connected to earth ground. With that, I guess you can say the current recommendation is to do both.
I demand you return leaning lamp immediately!
G’day Dave, in most of Australia the water is the Great Artesian Basin which is hundreds of feet below the surface. You can lay a HF dipole on the ground and it works fine! de John VK4VT.
When I put my Hy gain HyTower huge vertical up I started with 4 ground rods, then 4,8,16,32 radials about 32-34 foot long just laying on the ground bare wire not copper.
When I got to 32 it was performing well on 20 compared to my sky wire loop. I was satisfied and love it to this day. Best $100 I ever spent. LoL
There is a radial research paper of sorts out there on the web using the stepper ir vertical and different radial scenarios. 73. And my vertical has very low noise in my countryside location
1) Single element verticals are equally mediocre for a given length and ground radial system.
2) If you can elevate the fed “base” of a vertical above the ground (15-20 ft) , you need only 4 elevated radials to approach what a ground-mounted vert and 30+ radials does. So, find a 60’ branch, use 20 feet of low loss coax, pull your 40’ wire up into a tall tree, and spread out 4 radials angling downward.
@kd8poi - Thanks for that comment. Not a ham, but interested. Many years ago as a teen when the CB craze was going on, I had a chimney mounted CB antenna on the roof and it had 4 radials. I started to wonder about that as Dave was describing the need for 32 radials. Now it makes sense how that old antenna was able to work.
@@stevenemert837 you’re welcome. You also had the benefit of height, CB is line of sight (most of the time), and on a chimney of either a 1- or 2- story home you were probably anywhere between a half and a full wavelength above ground on the 11m CB frequencies. If it was a well designed antenna (good SWR, relatively short feed line), you probably had a really efficient and unobstructed set up. Lots of opinions about antennas, my take is a ground-fed/mounted, multi-band, quarter wave vertical is a mediocre performer. I built a fairly good, 31’ vertical with 30 ground radials, and a 4:1 unun. The vertical element (radials, ground plate and unun not included- those were more than the antenna) was made by a company called S9, it doesn’t really exist anymore after trading hands a few times in the last 8 years. Alpha antenna owns them now, and they doubled the price of them to $200. If you go to my channel, you can see it in action on the AM band from where I lived in Ohio. It’s actually impressive without comparing it to other antennas. It was a “great” antenna in that it was so versatile and you didn’t need to “tune” it (your tuner did that), and if it were the only antenna I had it would have been more than enough to enjoy the hobby. But, compared to a pair of “fan” dipoles I was able to string up and switch between NE-SW and NW-SE, it was noisy (Omni directional means Omni noise receive) and was a markedly worse in S/N ratio and reception reports. I think my point is that if a vertical is where you want to start, you might have better options. An elevated vertical, if you’re lucky enough to have tall trees (like really tall), it a cheap way to get into the hobby. One elevated vertical element tied up in a tree, 4 or more elevated radials as long as you can make them within reason, a cheap 9:1 unun from LDG, and you can have an enjoyable/inexpensive antenna. But if you’re really lucky, a vertical EFHW won’t need a tuner or radials, but a 40 meter EFHW is almost 70’ long.
I want leaning lamp!
Thank you.
That explained a few things. N0QFT
Good info here, Thanks
I got an 18AVT in 1970 and have it at my cabin in northern Arizona. This last year I just cannot get the SWR down anymore. I have taken it apart several time and had good continuity. And the ground rod and all the radials are fine but still cannot get swr down. I am thinking that after so many years the traps are defective. I did get a lot of time out of it but it seems like somehow I can get it tor work again.
I thought the Hy gain patriot series and cushcraft r7etc were OCF but are they end fed? I’ve wanted to try one but oh so pricey.
I remember when the 1980s was 22 years ago.. almost 20 years ago.
My guess is in the 80’s my Cb days you only needed a piece of metallic string and there was not computer programs to design and look at at antennas. It was all by trial and error.
Bet after time your radio blew up because you did not match the antenna to the unit. I did hear these stories yeah all I needed was a coat hanger.
Not me
are the Solarcon A99 and I2000 endfed dipoles or centerfed dipoles ?
What is the difference between a radial and a counterpoise?
Radials are a vertical monopole's counterpoise. Ken WA8FCI
The terms are often used interchangeably, but the definition says a counterpoise is separate from the ground.
I'm very tired of hearing the excuse of an output impedance of tube type 50 ohm outputs being better than the 50 ohm outputs of the transistor radios. You're having issues with understanding output impedance concepts.
Why does this man have a big belly?
Sitting all day making RUclips videos and or talking on his radio.
Back in the day I got into CB radio had a huge Sigma 5 8th wave antenna and it made all the difference putting out a whopping 4 watts. Also made sure to put it as high as possible even though it was against FCC regulations. There were so many people that would have a big mouth over the radio until seeing them in person. Very similar to the internet. People can tell you any BS story behind the keyboard and you would never know.
Now I can watch the video. Part 2 I remember the sigma antenna along was 22 feet tall and had 4 radials that were 9 feet long each. I tried to get it on a 20 foot mast but was to hard with the person that was helping me. Got it on a 15 foot mast with guide wires.
Lots of people at the time were used linear amplifiers.
100 watts 150 watts so on. I did not need it because of this antenna. Royce Union home unit when most were using a car unit with a 12 volt converter. Had 2 power mics. The famous D-104 and a Turner don't remember the model number.
Had fun. However it was all about how so I sound and where are you. Not much to talk about after that. Did find friends in the area.
Some folks like you are unbelievably crude . Your mouth has no control.