At 4:30 in the video. This is why I carry the 10mm eaa combat sport elite match. It's the most accurate weapon I own! That's my defence in court if it ever happens. And using the right ammo around 1250fps 180 grain round and hollow point. I wish it was around 1050 fps. For humans I'm saying. Just enough to do the job only.
I enlisted into the US Navy in 1985 . I was trained on the 1911a1 service pistol , the M870 Shotgun , and the M14 Battle Rifle for Ship's Self Defense Forces when I was in the Surface Fleet , and as an MP on Shore Duty , My current carry handguns are a Kahr K9 chambered in 9mm P , and a 1911a1 pattern handgun chambererd in 10mm Automatic . I have a 1911a1 pattern handgun chambered in .45 ACP coming . I have been a USCCA member for three years .
There was a home invasion recently in my county where the perpetrators were shot by the homeowner. The sheriff publicly congratulated the dude for being a great shot.
That's the beauty of living in the south where our constitutional rights are still in effect and the law is sick of liberal judges letting criminals get away with everything
Mostly in Western countries but not in some Southeast Asian countries. In the Philippines, between 2016 to 2022, about 7,000 drug dealers, users, carjackers and other criminals were shot and killed by the police and military all over the archipelago. That won’t happen here in America.
I cant stress this enough...no matter how justified you are REMAIN SILENT until you have legal council. Answering questions does nothing but build a case against you. Your going into custody for awhile anyway so just keep mouth shut until you have a lawyer. Plus this gives you time to process what happened and for emotions to stabilize. Your mouth can cause LOTS of trouble when emotions are peaked.
Depends on where you live. We've had self defense shootings in my state where the weapon used wasn't even taken from the self defense shooter let alone spending any time in jail.
Absolutely. Cops lie and they are not your friend. They will jam you up for using a gun if they can. Remember the agenda, disarm us so we can be enslaved.
@@GenXMafiaI think that depends on the context of the shooting, like if it’s obvious too the police what happened or there’s surveillance footage or multiple eyewitnesses with no relation to the defender that will testify to the fact it was a life or death self defense situation and it also can boil down to where in America you are, for example if someone shoots someone else in self defense in the state of Florida they are far less likely to have they’re firearm taken for evidence and be arrested themselves.
@@Sigenjoyer9000 This is true. I have a Dem Governor but the state is solid red with the exceptions of the two biggest cities. You have to really be able to prove some major gross negligence of some kind to go down for a SDS here. We are a very 2A friendly state.
When I worked armed security at a private school the owner of our company physically checked our magazines to make certain we had only hollow points loaded. Hardball was not allowed because it could over penetrate.
A deputy sheriff friend had the best advice: call your local PD or sheriff's office and find out EXACTLY what they use. Then use it yourself. If they use Golden Saber, so do you. If they use HydraShok, so do you. If it's "inhumane" or indicates "predisposition", they're attacking their own cops, and you can call the police rangemaster that spoke to you as a witness and invite him to paint his own cops as blodthirsty.
That's an awesome idea. I would go a step further and send a letter asking for this information in writing from the agency. That way you can keep a copy in your records and with your attorney and the agency can't lie about it on the stand.
If you’re so worried about being held liable and strung up for using “bad ammo” in an otherwise justifiable use of force (something with zero legal precedent) you should *really* be concerned with being on record as going out of your way to use “the same ammo the local PD uses” because that is way more likely to get you painted as “wannabe cop vigilante” than buying whatever says “Personal Defense Ammunition” in huge letters on the box at Bass Pro.
It's ultra liberal DAs that want to prosecute anyone who has the audacity to use a gun to defend their lives. While simultaneously plea bargaining with criminals to get them shorter jail times.
@davidbourgeois856 Trying to know and/or remember the law when you're in a life or death situation is not ideal. One shouldn't have to fight for their freedom after fighting for their life with a criminal who brought the danger
@davidbourgeois856 Yeah, except you misunderstood what I meant. No one had time to think about how a jury, DA, lawyer, or cop is going to interpret what you did when you were busy trying not to get your ass shot off. People are stupid and easily manipulated, especially when it comes to guns. These people actually do know a thing or two about it and are simply being pragmatic by informing you that it's never as cut and dry as we think. They're giving it to you in layman's terms to help make you aware of what to expect in the event you ever have to defend yourself. Stop reading so much into it.
In my CHL training class, the instructor brought up this very topic. His advice was to carry whatever the local law enforcement carries in their service weapons.
That may not be a good recommendation, because some municipalities believe that what the law enforcement personnel use is NOT common to what the general public uses. In their mind; special use ammunition used by LEO’s is not appropriate for Joe Public. Just a caution.
@@scottmackey4182 Yeah. We all know prosecutors ARE ALL NARCISSIST and will "twist the narrative around". "Why are you using these bullets? You're not with the police. Maybe we should also charge you with the crime impersonating a police officer!". A good judge will tell the liar to knock it off and tell the liar to stay on topic while some judges let that slide.
Was involved in shooting incident 2 armed men tried to rob me I fired in self defense hitting and disabling both 1 latter died . When policemen arrived I (I have blood pressure and heart condition) asked for medical assistance and went to hospital. Mean time the cops watched 3 different videos. When they tried to question me my attorney handed them a written statement singed and stamped by hospital notary. No charges and the living bad guy received life no parole. My firearm was returned after I left hospital.
I was in a self defense shooting in 2009. Two armed men came to my home at 3am to harm my family and I. It was deemed a justified homicide according to those who investigated it. I used a stock 1911. 9mm, with 115 gr FMJ ammunition. My gun was thoroughly checked out for modifications, and I was asked many times if I was affiliated with a militia, in or had been in the military, had undergone self defensive firearms training, or had taken any police or security guard courses. From my experience, if you are involved in a shooting, you will be thoroughly investigated . From your firearm and ammunition, to your background and personal life.
I agree, I have a legal aid program(not the sponsor of this YT content). I've been a paid member since 2015. I'm also in a + spot because the lawyer, main advisor lives around 40min from me ⚖️. I'm also a veteran, 4yr & license security officer(armed) since 2000. I by choice carry LE type sidearms, use either HST, Golden Saber-bonded, some Underwood Ammo: .45acp.
@TheDilweed I know three people who where killed in home invasions. I will use what ever it takes to make sure it's only 75% of the people I know die in home invasions. Having said that they will probably be mad no matter what ammo you use. So use what ever you feel at right. Take it to the range and know it will run and where to aim. Shoot it without ear pro so you get the full effect.
It's hard to believe that we live in a time where defending yourself against a criminal who intended to do you harm would require any type of ammunition. I would say anything that would stop the threat should be just fine.
Funny enough it wasn’t that different 140 years ago either. In fact self defense is more recognized now than it was when Billy the Kid took his first life in 1877 in that instance it was self defense the man had him on the ground and beating the crap out of him when the kid drew is gun and shot him. The reason he ran was because it was known that in a court of law self defense was an extremely high threshold more so than it is today. Now in that particular case it’s been stated that Billy Bonny probably would have come out ok but his chances today would be far better than back then
The fact is expanding ammo is to prevent over penetration and in most states your accountable for the bullets you fire, so if your ammo over penetrates and hits another person you can be charged for the harm of that bystander if it was your bullet that hit them.
Actually, FMJ, non expanding ammo is military grade and is used on the battlefield and is the only ammo that is in compliance with the Geneva Convention because it doesn't expand or fragment, the idea being it will wound in many cases before it kills. If I'm trying to stop someone from killing me and it's justifiable to shoot him a hollow point would be my first choice because I know it will do a better job of stopping an assailant. One thing is certain and that is if I'm dead court is a non issue. I'll take my chances being judged here on earth rather then being judged by my maker. We have an unaliable right to protect ourselves
True brother but anti gun people get angry at the thought if a law abiding citizen defending themselves with a firearm because it disproves their agenda
I’ve heard a couple lawyers talk about this before. They’ll use anything they can to paint you have some sort of maniac killer or want to be a killer. If you’re wearing a punisher shirt, or you’ve got a modified firearm, even post to make on the Internet could be used against you because the prosecutors gonna do anything they can to get a conviction and make you look as bad as possible. So if you’re using zombie killer, ammunition, or some thing with an aggressive sounding name, of course they’re going to use that against you. I choose an EDC model that I don’t have to modify, and that is fairly common so it doesn’t stand out. Also, if it has a name, you have to be a little careful. I carry a shield, but some guns are named like the equalizer, and they might even use that against you. The ammo is a hard one, a lot of them have aggressive names, I choose Hornady critical defense, because it says defense in the name and it’s a good functional ammo. It’s pretty much the same thing as the zombie killer but without the name. You have to figure out what’s going to protect you best, but these are good things to think about, especially if you live in a blue state where they’re sending innocent people to prison for defending themselves.
Personally i got a makarov. Its well known as a pretty generic and cheap though rugged and reliable if somewhat underpowered weapon with penetration issues. Though it keeps the stopping power of a 380 or a 9mm. It is also known for being in use by police forces in multiple european countries which are anti weapon, plus for the decoker i.e double safety of the weapon which means i can carry a round in the chamber considerably more safely then many other firearms. Pair that with critical defense ammo and my logic is it will be pretty hard to argue i got the most deadly firearm i could find. I went for a generic widely used firearm with a lower penertration and good safety features useing a defensive ammo that any reasonable person looking for a DEFENSIVE round would gravitate towards. Not fool proof of course. But im pretty confident that it would be a DAMN sight easier to convince a jurry i used a reasonable weapon then if i say used my 10mm with black talons for instance. Otherwise i carry a tarurs G2C with gold dots which is one of the two options my local police department issues to officers. The other being a glock which i refuse to use due to association with gangs and such.
Seems like an attorney would defuse the ammo question by stating that the defendant used expanding ammo to help safeguard other people in the area to avoid over penetration.
@@tommyrussell1415ou can own hollow points in nj lol where do ppl get this. You cannot carry them if you’re a civilian but you can carry Hornady flex tips. You guys should really speak to some competent gun enthusiasts in the future. Its funny to me when ppl talk about the notorious hollow or soft point lol. Some guns that’s the only ammo I own. You can shoot whatever the hell you want at the range man and if you think ppl aren’t packing hollows for their bed side gun I have a bridge to sell u
This has been kicked around for as long as 9mm vs 45acp. The truth as far as I've been able to tell is that is that ammo or caliber has never turned a clear cut good shoot into a bad one. It's the grey area cases, like the Harold Fish case in Arizona, where they'll try to make you look guilty based on caliber or ammo choice.
I’ve also heard to only use factory loads in your self defense firearms. You don’t want the DA to start saying that you fabricated super hot loads for your use in your defensive firearm.
Unless you are in a Liberal Court room where they dont believe in self-defense under any circumstances they believe the bad guy must have all the advantages
I have seen cases attacking everything from hollowpoints to FMJ, Every gun and caliber, if the DA has it in for you they will call a 22lr a sniper rifle. The important part is to be prepared to justify what you carry.
The most dangerous aspect that can derail a lawful justified shooting IS people's own blabbing on the internet, or to other people. In every high profile shooting the internet history is brought into court.
@@matts1166 It literally doesn't matter what it is, if the state wants to prosecute, they will go for any angle they can. You can do whatever you want to mitigate this but every case I've seen was argued back on the merits of the shooting. The moment the trigger is pulled is game over, doesn't matter if it's a 22lr or 500 magnum, it's shooting to disable to any extent required. I would just avoid anything with cringe marketing like the RIP rounds or whatnot personally as that's most likely whats going to be the center of their case.
In the real world if the opposing attorney does not object then you can appeal based on incompetence. If the judge overrules, then that too is grounds for an appeal.
In New Jersey, if you carry hollow point ammunition outside your house, office or a range, you go straight to jail. Hollow point ammunition is illegal per se in New Jersey.
I have two EDC options in my personal protection tool box, 9mm and .380. That choice is governed by clothing requirements and the amount of ammo that can be comfortably carried. I treat my personal protection like any other task requiring tools. I don't choose the tools because they 'look' right, I choose the tools that are most appropriate for the task and will give me the best outcome. A handgun and the ammunition used in it are combination tools just like a rechargeable drill and the battery it uses, and just as batteries come in different amp hour configurations for small or big jobs, ammunition comes in different configurations for target shooting, hunting, and self defense. In self defense, the stakes are a lot higher when it comes to job completion, and only a fool would choose marginally adequate tools.
Try telling a jury, you were only defending yourself when you shot someone with Hallow Point P+++ Ammunition. Your ammunition choice goes to "Intent" and "The Forethought of Malice." One needs to be able to say "I never meant to hurt anyone, I just had no choice." That's easy to say when one is using cheap target ammunition... Besides the odds of actually having to shoot someone combined with the, only slight difference in performance, between cheap target ammunition and high tech defensive Ammunition, is actually so minimal that it doesn't justify the extra liability.
@@robertslaughter7044 It used to be that how your attorney and/or you presented your reasons for weapon and ammo choice would determine how a jury looked at the final outcome. Now a days with antigun pansies making up the jury pool, I don't hold much hope with a fair trial for a self defense shooting.
It’s honestly very scary to think that the mindset of prosecutors and judges literally go towards “the defendant has the right to self defense, but doesn’t have the right to self-defense because he or she used a kind of ammunition that I don’t like“ so therefore they’re guilty Wow. Just….. wow
They just be in the courtroom making up laws on the fly 🤣🤣🤣 Defendant: but ya honor since when were self defense ammo considered illegal?? Judge: SINCE NOW!! GUILTY!!! Defendant: 😢
That's not it. The point is that everything you ever did leading up to an incident is going to be framed in whatever way they have to in order to make it look like you had intent. No matter what your choice of ammo is, an overzealous prosecutor will try to act like it counts as mens rea in order to go for a conviction if that is the route they choose to go. Even then, it doesn't matter what the judge or prosecutor really think, its what the prosecutor gets the jury to think.
When one carries Hollow Points or P+ ammunition that are "saying" I intend to do the greatest bodily harm possible... when one only carries cheap target ammunition they can say "I never wanted to hurt anyone, I just had no choice." It's called "Forethought of Malice." And it could make all of the difference in a Court of Law.
An instructor advised us to say "i use ammunition that has the ability to stop the attacker more effectively" and dont let the prosecutor try to flip it to better killing power, you stick to i was trying to stop them, i stopped them, this ammo stops them better and faster.
Its crazy that if someone breaks into my home or attacks me I have to worry about what ammunition I used to defend myself and/or my family. Truly only in America. Yes your honor they only broke in to have a cup of coffee.
Why are you suprised that the gov wants to make sure the death of someone else was infact self defense? What makes you think you have the right to kill someone (legally) and never have to explain why it was legal.
How do I know you didn't invite that guy into your apartment to buy some drugs and you decided to just kill him and take his drugs and money and say it was self-defense?
@@RPSchonherrbecause of the few bad apples, we all pay. The law, if you can call it that, just looks for the easiest way to police people, by stripping everybody’s rights. Why don’t they concentrate on the actions of the perpetrators? First and foremost!
Remember the Rittenhouse case? The Prosecutor was completely incompetent where it came to firearms. Flagged people with his finger on the rifle trigger, ignorant about muzzle energy when a bullet is fired.
KR wasn't helping things with the "a bullet is a bullet is a bullet" testimony ⚖️. And yes... I was once a 17yr old lad but even then, 1980s I was aware of ballistics, forensic evidence, Col Martin Fackler MD, wound ballistics lab. 📂 Ohhh & the disputed Marshall-Sanow data.
Ya know that hand loads or standard 223 ammunition for vat it’s should be better for not over penetration than the standard 5.56 solid bullets like the military uses
Well, USSCA trains and tells its members to contact their local P.D and ask them what they use in their pistols. That be the smart thing to do. And what ever your local P.D use in their pistol use that round or a grain below. I run federal syntech defense SJHP 138 grain. But! I live in Florida. Gun laws are different
@@jamesdelong6401 That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment, to use arms in defence of so valuable a blessing, on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion. George Washington, letter to George Mason April 5th 1769,you better talk with George
@@anthonyjamieson3875 Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin
I understood the rationale of HOLLOW Point ammunition is that it tends to STAY in the body of the person you are aiming for, THUS Minimizing "over-penetration" and possible injuries to bystanders or people on the other side of plaster walls, bushes, screens, drapes, et cetera. Even Frangible ammunition can wound innocent bystanders if your aim is a little off. Wouldn't be a surprise if innocent bystanders have been sliced or nicked by flailing Knife Blades or a cane carried by someone w a bum leg.
You should keep the above to yourself. Not saying you are wrong, but those are personal choices that explaining it on the internet can, and will be used against you in court.
I'm using Jacketed Hollow Points for self defense and will deal with any of their BS arguments in the courtroom. Using FMJ is reckless due to its propensity to over penetrate and hit other objects or people.
Just shows how brilliant the law makers in New Jersey are, it is illegal to have hollow point ammunition must have FMJ. This attorney should know that and should have indicated if stated in court the defense attorney should have noted that the State of New Jersey only authorizes FMJ.
I have carried daily for 49 years. My states, local, county and troopers use Speer Gold Dot or Federal HST. That is what I carry. It performs better than the 90% and isn't labeled "cop killer bullets" like the old Federal Nyclad was. I use a 1911 R.O. Elite Champion, as it is consistent with one inch groups or less at 25 plus yards 1.5 seconds per round.
Here in NC, prosecutions in Self Defense Shootings ever getting past a Grand Jury are extremely rare, prosecution enhancement over the use of certain guns and ammo even more rare. In our Common Law here, if it is a clear cut case of violent intent on the part of the aggressor which one can reasonably feel fear that their life or that of another party is in jeopardy, they may employ the use of Deadly Force to prevent or stop such aggression. The gray area of this being Excessive Force which is rather broad and open to interpretation which would generally apply to overreaction (firing when unnecessary or continuing the use of force once the aggressor is out of the fight). I have sat on a murder 2 trial jury where the prosecutors never presented anything past the basic details of the weapon used other than to verify it was the weapon used in the crime. Sat in courts on other trials across the State, same thing, no prosecution enhancement of the weapon or ammo used. The focus was on elements leading up to the shooting and the basic facts in the shooting. I get it that other states are different and that can range wildly from county to county.
I would think it depends on the county. For most, you're probably right. But in Wake or Mecklenburg it could be different. If on the east coast, the DA may give you a medal.
I try to keep ammo that has "Defense" prominently in it's name, and boldly printed on the box! Just in case I (God forbid) do have to appear in court on a shooting matter someday. That way I will be able to honestly say that when buying bullets for my self protection, I picked the one that was obviously made for that purpose and not a hunting or military round designed to indiscriminately take a life. Your Honor, I just wanted to stop them from murdering me and my family, not to kill them.
Actually the Military ball ammo is dictated by the Geneva Convention and Military doctrine, The Convention wanted things made easy for the Doctor to remove therefore unlikely to kill, where as Hollowpoints are forbidden. Doctrine is it takes more people away from the battle to tend a wounded Soldier, than just leaving them their stuffing a dog tag in their mouth or boot, and giving the other to the Lt to turn in along with the location of the dead man.
Liberty Civil Defense has entered the conversation lol. No but in all honesty always wondered how ammo that was meant to break apart and create multiple wound channels would fair in the courtroom. Probably not well based on what was said here.
I try to be situationally aware and trained up so that I can make the best decision’s possible in the time of need. They are gonna try to find something to get you-stay alert and stay proficient!
No matter what ammo you used in a self defense, the fact you are in a court room having to defend yourself for self defense means the prosecutor is going to bring it up. If you use ball ammo they are going to say that is military grade ammo. If you use hollow points they are going to say you pick an ammo known to cause more damage to the target. They even brought this up in the Kyle Rittenhouse case.
@@abcdefbcdefg8352 you really don't have nothing but two kinds of ammo that I know of if they have any issues about why they just stop selling two civilian
@TheDilweed The point is that no matter what ammo is used, prosecutors are going to make whatever is was sound like you were trying to select the "scariest" thing with the intent to kill people in the worst possible way.
As a senior citizen......What chance would I have against young thugs without a firearm? There is no easy way to be safe in this corrupt and lawless world.
18 U.S.C. §241 Conspiracy against rights BUT you have to prove beyond any shred of doubt that the judge conspired with the prosecution in your case. For that, you're gonna need not only a really good lawyer but a private prosecutor AND a private investigator. ALL of them better know what they're doing, too!
NO! I've questioned county and city prosecutors regarding this very question. They have all said, "If it's a rightous shooting, no problem." This is a problem that doesn't exist except in the mind of a blogger.
That's why I have "Critical Defense" in my EDC. It happens to be an awsome and effective round, but it has the added bennefit of not being called "Xtreme Penetrator". I can just hear the prosecutor saying that over and over as he points to me while making thrusting motions.
That's Underwood that makes that ammo and it's very good. They also make another very good ammo called Xtreme Defender. YT has some ballistics videos on it. I carry the Defender version.
albert youre spot on and the evidence is supposed to be objective. when they dont have a case they pull at the jurys heart strings to try and get a conviction this is the flaw in the system. Guilt is suppoed to be proven beyond a reaosnble doubt
I've been told by many many law enforcement officers that it's not allowed to use full solid bullets in target shooting but use hollow point ammunition for concealed carry self defense ammunition.
Well, as a USCCA member. And the time I've been with you all. You train and tell us to contact our local P.D. Now, when I did, and they told me. I ask them what I plan on running in my EDC told them federal syntech defense SJHP 138 grain. They said. Run with it, they actually use one up from that. But!!!! Then again I live in Florida. People that want to carry, should be contacting their local P.D and asking them what they use.
Just run normal ammo like speer, Hornady, federal defensive ammo. It's nothing fancy and likely if the officers are buying their own ammo like the small town I live in it's what they're using. I've got some friends in the local police department and sheriff's department and that's what they all say. All that fancy stuff is designed to take separate you from your money and often doesn't perform in the way we want.
Buy your favorite defense ammo while it is on sale, period. That way if you are ever on the stand and they ask why you chose it, you can honestly say, "because it was on sale" or "it was cheaper".
Attorney: why did you buy man killer bullets Me: Walmart had a sale. Attorney: why did you spend 18 shots into your peaceful attacker Me: because it only cost .09 cents each 😂😂 👉🇺🇸👈👉⚰👈
New Jersey specifically names like "Hornady Critical Defense". I've also heard of people getting in trouble for ammo with a hollow dimple in the tip that wasn't a "hollow point". I think you can use expanding ammo outside the home as long as the tip is filled in. All that being said, the only expanding ammo I would carry in New Jersey is Hornady Critical Defense because they specifically name it. I don't want to have to worry if my ammo is "like" Hornady Critical Defense enough to be considered legal.
I carry a 57, and use hollow points to prevent over penetration, thus reducing over penetration collateral damage. As a former resident of PA *now living in Texas), I am aware of NJ's stupid ban,.
I have various brands of self defensive ammo not because I chose to have it that way. I had limited choices during the "ammo shortage" over the past few years and I'm not throwing it away. It was made as defensive rounds and I will carry it that way.
I love watching these videos as it's good info. The problem is the more of these videos of yours that I watch the more it makes me not want to carry daily. You make it sound like the courts will make me out to be the Perp instead of the Victim in a self defense encounter.
I know what you mean. You may beat the rap but you won't survive the ride. In a CCW class I was in I remember being shocked when they talked about the legal cost of defending yourself being upwards of 50k-100k or more. Many people would rather die by an attacker than put their families into poverty I think.
It's worth remembering, that even though these guys are offering you insight... They get paid by people clicking and watching their videos. They get paid by people buying their insurance. It's their job to make you fearful of what "could" happen! Of course, a DA is going to come after you for your gun, or your ammo, but consider, how did you come to your decision to use the specific carry ammo you have? In my case, I learned it is among the most reliable and safest I could buy. And, in the event I have to defend myself, or others, I want to make sure as few people as possible get help. I'd assume that's self evident, because the only reason I carry (not saying I do), is to help keep innocent people safe.
@@flexinclouds Agreed! My only point is, don't stress about the "worst case scenarios" they throw out there, they do it for clicks! It likely won't happen to you, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared if it does, so of course, take away the lessons!
@@flexinclouds Having carry insurance will absolutely be used against you too. They'll say things like "he has insurance, so he was obviously expecting to shoot someone". It's insane the level of mental gymnastics these people go through to turn things you do to protect yourself into offensive actions. These same people view literal body armor as being a "weapon".
I am a CC holder in NJ we are not allowed to carry hollow point in our EDC but we can carry polymer filled Ammo. like critical defense etc. yes it is asinine I 💯 agree
There is no law that says you have to use a certain type of ammo for self-defense, make sure your lawyer understand and is well verse and understand the different types of ammunitions, also the 12 people that are judging were not smart enough to get out of jury duty. Lastly don't talk to cops alone without a lawyer present even if you were justified.
I guess in line with this question. When I retired from my police department, I was "gifted" a case of our issue rounds, 180gr .40 Winchester Ranger T. I have since moved nearly 200 miles away from my old jurisdiction. We were more than satisfied with the performance of the round so I wonder if I would have any issues since I use the round as my edc.
In my opine, ccw user & armed security officer; I'd shoot up that Ranger T .40 & buy a new factory fresh box of Federal HST 165gr or maybe some Speer Gold Dot 165gr. I would not carry or wear the same ccw rounds, 12mo 24mo 36mo. Swap it out, shoot it every 6-8mo. Lint, grit, crud, grime can seep in, the cause problems. A box of LE rounds, 50 run $30-40. Practice with the old stuff.
More corruption from the cops and their overlords. Y'all are pathetic dude . They didn't have the authority to give you something they didn't own.. tax payers bought that case of ammo.. And you didn't have the integrity not to accept it. Typical behavior from government thugs .. whole career spent crapping on the constitution and their oath. And get rewarded with stolen ammunition
It won't matter, if they prosecute you, it will all be the wrong one. Just like the DEA at airports claiming, "drug mules are first off the plane", "drug mules are last off the plane", "drug mules come off in the middle", what ever they need to justify stopping you and searching.
Had a lawyer tell me one time that you should always carry the same ammo as the police in your area; the idea being that No prosecutor is going to go after the ammunition that the police use.
That's solid legal advice BUT I'd say honestly not all PDs or cops have rigid standards, procurement policy. 🗃 I talked to a small town PD Sgt, early 2010s in Florida. He said they bought, picked rounds based on prices, what the distributor would offer deals on. Mainly Speer Gold Dot.
@@DavidLLambertmobile That’s why I carry a Glock 19, with Federal Hydroshocks, because that is what my Federal Agent counterparts carry. As long as you can articulate why you carry that type of pistol and use that type of ammunition, it is one less thing the prosecutor can use against you.
@@walkingwolf8072 that’s cute. And when you have a questionable shoot and the DA is trying to convince the Grand Jury why you should or should not be prosecuted, I’m certain they will take into account such wise advice.
If the ammo and firearms are in the “public domain” then “why” should it be a problem. The major problems are the judges who do not understand the laws correctly and should sanction the unprofessional lawyers who exploit the system. The US judicial system needs to be more professional with their actions.
Heard some good advice on ammo, and had a similar thought myself. 1)Advice.... Find out what the county/state officers use, and simply use that. If it's ok for them, it's ok for me. 2)What I did before this.... Signed up at a new range (CC classes), Walked up to the counter and ask for a box of (x-mm) and gave no other info to see what they instinctively hand you for use on the range. Mine has a fairly well know brand I'd never used, but see is sort of the "house brand" as it's what everyone is shooting, as evidenced by the boxes in the trash and stock on hand. Ever go to court, questioned about the ammo choice..... Simple answer, easily proven.
It’s crazy we have to worry about these things when protecting our children and ourselves. honestly it’s probably safer using hollow points because there’s less chance of over penetration .
The more basic you can go the better. I generally use either Winchester white box JHP or Remington Green & White box JHP. I've found both to be very capable rounds, with reliable expansion, and decent accuracy. There's something to be said for being the guy with the basic, but functional ammo and gear. As for firearm I have three go to firearms, Beretta 92FS, Smith & Wesson 5906, and Sig P320 Compact. All are pretty mundane ordinary firearms, not custom race guns. And although all have a few minor "custom touches", those touches are grips on the Beretta & Smith, and sights on the Sig, and those grips don't have Punisher logos or anything like that on them, they are just grips. And the sights on the Sig are fairly common night sights.
Military ammunition design, to my understanding, is based on the idea that soldiers are honorable men, therefore bullets that do more trauma than necessary to disable (read the Ballad of Boh Da Thone by Rudyard Kipling) were forbidden. Recently there was a video in which a man described how he was shot 14 times with .45 ACP hollow point bullets before he drew and mortally wounded his assailant. Ball ammunition is relatively inexpensive. Even high quality hollow point ammunition fired from a handgun not guaranteed to incapacitate an assailant even with solid hits (I knew a man that was shot with an anti-tank round through both legs AND a pistol round to his head, during the same battle 6 years before I was born and survived.)
My understanding of CCW ammo is that hollow point is the best. It does the most damage while lessening the potential for extended travel putting other bystanders at risk. I shoot inexpensive hollow point at the range only.
Ever notice that there is virtually no information about judges who are running for a position in a court? This is the reason I've abstained from voting for any judge during the last several elections. Just because they are qualified or have experience on the bench doesn't mean squat to me if I don't know anything about their background.
Never point your gun at anything you don't intend to 'destroy'. Know your target and what is beyond your target. And nearly every thing I've ever heard from ANY instructor is to aim for center mass. It's a ridiculous argument these lawyers make when it comes to ammo type, as gun owners we all understand that shooting to stop the threat doesn't mean shoot to scare, maim or injure. But then again this is an argument from ignorant lawyers to manipulate the ignorant juror, and possibly an ignorant judge.
Hello from Italy. According to Italian law, hollow point ammo is strictly forbidden for self defense. I didn't expect it could be a legal problem stateside
It shouldn’t make a difference what kind of ammo it is , if your in a situation that you have to defend yourself you got ask yourself what is the purpose of a gun ? It’s to protect yourself from a life threatening situation !
NJ Police active and retired, may use hollow point ammunition. Citizens may have hollow point ammo in the home and use it at the range but not for carry. From the NJSP website: "Ammunition lacking a hollow cavity at the tip, such as those with a polymer filling, are not considered to be hollow point ammunition. An example of this can be seen with the Hornady Critical Defense / Critical Duty, Cor-Bon PowRball / Glaser Safety Slug and Nosler Inc. Defense ammunition." I would say Hornady "Critical Defense" and the monolithic Underwood "Xtreme Defender" are the most popular bullets used for CC in NJ.
I live in a mag ban state. My philosophy is that, if the state is going to limit the number of rounds available to me, I’m going to use a caliber that delivers the best chance of stopping an attack with the fewest shots fired.
We joined USCCA in Feb 2023 in part because of these very informative videos. We switched from a competitor. My wife and consider the Concealed Carry Magazine we received with top notch information a big plus.
I use the cheapest ammo range I can find. If they ask... why I used that ammo... I was not expecting to have to defend myself - it was loaded for going to the range.
New Jersey's prohibition is on "hollow point" ammunition, not all expanding ammunition. Ballistic tip ammunition (like Critical Defense) is not illegal, nor is tumble on impact ammunition. That being said, you may still be charged with possession of illegal ammunition as happened not that long ago when a security guard was charged with carrying prohibited ammunition when he had Critical Defense ammunition even though the agency in charge of guns and ammo (the State Police) had ruled that the ammunition was not illegal.
Expanding ammunition is really the most responsible way to go. A round stuck in a perpetrator is a round not striking an innocent person beyond said threat
Fun Hollywood fact: in the court, Judge daytime series The People's Court: mainly 1980s 1990s. Rusty, the show baliff wore a REAL loaded .357magnum revolver. A 6" Colt Python. Rusty was a real retired LA county court baliff.
@@oscargrouch7962 yes. I bought a .357 and chose .38+p to go in it. .357 is for giggles at the range. I doubt I will find a situation where I need to fend off a large animal.
Just keep in mind: under USCCA policy if you are facing criminal charges they are NOT obligated to help you in any way shape or form. Its right in the contract you signed to get your membership.
@nmoore8994 there really isn't one. They even state in the policy if they do represent you and you are found guilty they can sue you for their court costs in defending you
Going to jail for this, going to jail for that..they talk about banning everything to defend yourself but nevermind the d#mn criminals that violate peoples rights..😡😡
I've always recommended that you find out what ammunition your state police/highway patrol use, then use the exact ammo in your carry/home defense pistol. If the state deemed the ammunition adequate for Troopers, and your're paying for it as a taxpayer, then its good for you. Let the prosecutor try to jump that hoop. Exotic ammo like rip or other ginsu blade body shredding ammo will be your down fall.
Good post, I'd add many times ammunition or guns can vary depending on budgets, contracts, factory issues, weather etc. The NJ State Troopers sued SIG Sauer over the P229 9mm "Classic" guns. SIG blamed improper 9mm training loads. I'd agree on avoiding gimmick or fancy "cool" brands like Fort Scott, RIP, DRT, Nova, PowRball, Glaser Safety-Silver. Stay with rounds that do well in FBI protocol tests.
@@Roadking556 I believe you are incorrect. The same ammunition the GSP uses (Speer Gold Dot 124gr for full size sidearm 9mm +p) is available in any gun shop for sale to civilians. The ONLY anmunition barred for use for civilians to own is armor piercing rifle or pistol. Might want to check out your source.🤷♂️
Ive heard this very topic from some instructors. They all recommend to carry what the local police carry or something that doesn't sound menacing. If I had to guess, it would be uo to the judge or the jury in the end anyway, cuz we all know that the prosecutor is going to try to get you locked up regardless probably.
In California, the CHP and local LEO’s carry .40 cal service weapons because there has been many reported cases of 9mm rounds not penetrating doors of vehicles and/or bouncing off of windshields in some cases. In almost all cases, law enforcement officers are allowed to carry hollow-points and I don’t have an issue with that. Follow their orders and show due respect and you will always be able to walk away unharmed. 👍
With 10mm it depends on the load. If you get the FBI loads they were seriously nerfed. So you could carry those in town and full power loads in the back country.
Expanding JHP ammo helps prevent over-penetration. FMJ or full metal jacket it typically cheap tarthet amm and more likely to over-penetrate. Military ammo - in this case, would carry a NATO designation such as Sig's M17 124gr 9mm NATO rounds. Any attorney who failed to convey that to a judge and jury probably has little experience in this type of case and would be likely not suited for the case.
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At 4:30 in the video. This is why I carry the 10mm eaa combat sport elite match. It's the most accurate weapon I own! That's my defence in court if it ever happens. And using the right ammo around 1250fps 180 grain round and hollow point. I wish it was around 1050 fps. For humans I'm saying. Just enough to do the job only.
@@cliffcorbitt9494 that's what .40 S&W is for.
UNCONSTITUTIONAL
WE WILL TAKE THIS NATION BACK
I enlisted into the US Navy in 1985 . I was trained on the 1911a1 service pistol , the M870 Shotgun , and the M14 Battle Rifle for Ship's Self Defense Forces when I was in the Surface Fleet , and as an MP on Shore Duty , My current carry handguns are a Kahr K9 chambered in 9mm P , and a 1911a1 pattern handgun chambererd in 10mm Automatic . I have a 1911a1 pattern handgun chambered in .45 ACP coming . I have been a USCCA member for three years .
There was a home invasion recently in my county where the perpetrators were shot by the homeowner. The sheriff publicly congratulated the dude for being a great shot.
Same thing here in Florida.
Good. How it should be
That's the beauty of living in the south where our constitutional rights are still in effect and the law is sick of liberal judges letting criminals get away with everything
There sheriff isn’t the DA thou
That would be anywhere
What a crazy ass world we live in. Where criminals have more rights than the victims.
It’s annoying 🤬😭😔
Yep. In goes Betty Crocker, out goes Jack The Ripper!
Welcome to THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.
Mostly in Western countries but not in some Southeast Asian countries. In the Philippines, between 2016 to 2022, about 7,000 drug dealers, users, carjackers and other criminals were shot and killed by the police and military all over the archipelago. That won’t happen here in America.
That's whybits called criminal justice.
I cant stress this enough...no matter how justified you are REMAIN SILENT until you have legal council. Answering questions does nothing but build a case against you. Your going into custody for awhile anyway so just keep mouth shut until you have a lawyer. Plus this gives you time to process what happened and for emotions to stabilize. Your mouth can cause LOTS of trouble when emotions are peaked.
Depends on where you live. We've had self defense shootings in my state where the weapon used wasn't even taken from the self defense shooter let alone spending any time in jail.
Absolutely. Cops lie and they are not your friend. They will jam you up for using a gun if they can. Remember the agenda, disarm us so we can be enslaved.
👍
@@GenXMafiaI think that depends on the context of the shooting, like if it’s obvious too the police what happened or there’s surveillance footage or multiple eyewitnesses with no relation to the defender that will testify to the fact it was a life or death self defense situation and it also can boil down to where in America you are, for example if someone shoots someone else in self defense in the state of Florida they are far less likely to have they’re firearm taken for evidence and be arrested themselves.
@@Sigenjoyer9000 This is true. I have a Dem Governor but the state is solid red with the exceptions of the two biggest cities. You have to really be able to prove some major gross negligence of some kind to go down for a SDS here. We are a very 2A friendly state.
When I worked armed security at a private school the owner of our company physically checked our magazines to make certain we had only hollow points loaded. Hardball was not allowed because it could over penetrate.
A deputy sheriff friend had the best advice: call your local PD or sheriff's office and find out EXACTLY what they use. Then use it yourself. If they use Golden Saber, so do you. If they use HydraShok, so do you. If it's "inhumane" or indicates "predisposition", they're attacking their own cops, and you can call the police rangemaster that spoke to you as a witness and invite him to paint his own cops as blodthirsty.
That's an awesome idea. I would go a step further and send a letter asking for this information in writing from the agency. That way you can keep a copy in your records and with your attorney and the agency can't lie about it on the stand.
Sounds like a good suggestion, but we have seen , time and again, citizens being held to drastically different standards than law enforcement is.
If you’re so worried about being held liable and strung up for using “bad ammo” in an otherwise justifiable use of force (something with zero legal precedent) you should *really* be concerned with being on record as going out of your way to use “the same ammo the local PD uses” because that is way more likely to get you painted as “wannabe cop vigilante” than buying whatever says “Personal Defense Ammunition” in huge letters on the box at Bass Pro.
It's a shame that we even have to worry about these things when defending ourselves.
It's ultra liberal DAs that want to prosecute anyone who has the audacity to use a gun to defend their lives. While simultaneously plea bargaining with criminals to get them shorter jail times.
I think America needs a reboot like a misbehaving computer.
@davidbourgeois856 Trying to know and/or remember the law when you're in a life or death situation is not ideal. One shouldn't have to fight for their freedom after fighting for their life with a criminal who brought the danger
@davidbourgeois856 Not true! The law is posted everywhere! Dig!
@davidbourgeois856 Yeah, except you misunderstood what I meant. No one had time to think about how a jury, DA, lawyer, or cop is going to interpret what you did when you were busy trying not to get your ass shot off. People are stupid and easily manipulated, especially when it comes to guns. These people actually do know a thing or two about it and are simply being pragmatic by informing you that it's never as cut and dry as we think. They're giving it to you in layman's terms to help make you aware of what to expect in the event you ever have to defend yourself. Stop reading so much into it.
In my CHL training class, the instructor brought up this very topic. His advice was to carry whatever the local law enforcement carries in their service weapons.
Ft Scott TUI it is!
That may not be a good recommendation, because some municipalities believe that what the law enforcement personnel use is NOT common to what the general public uses. In their mind; special use ammunition used by LEO’s is not appropriate for Joe Public. Just a caution.
@@scottmackey4182 Yeah. We all know prosecutors ARE ALL NARCISSIST and will "twist the narrative around".
"Why are you using these bullets? You're not with the police. Maybe we should also charge you with the crime impersonating a police officer!". A good judge will tell the liar to knock it off and tell the liar to stay on topic while some judges let that slide.
Critical duty!!!
HST
Regardless what you shoot, the prosecutor is still going to go after you.
Yup, that's their job.
Their Job
Unfortunately, it seems like everyone of them hate the 2nd amendment and weapons in general.
If we survive the defence incident, at least we'll be alive in order to go to jail/prison!! 😂😂😂
@@maypalmer id rather die
These judges and prosecutors are the problem! This legal system needs serious reform on many levels.
NCSWIC 👍
Was involved in shooting incident 2 armed men tried to rob me I fired in self defense hitting and disabling both 1 latter died . When policemen arrived I (I have blood pressure and heart condition) asked for medical assistance and went to hospital. Mean time the cops watched 3 different videos. When they tried to question me my attorney handed them a written statement singed and stamped by hospital notary. No charges and the living bad guy received life no parole. My firearm was returned after I left hospital.
Good. Future victims saved.
Glad you’re okay. What state do you live in?
Did you know it was gonna happen? Why return the gun
@@zane9690 They have to give you your gun back.. kidding me
@@Ford17xthought he meant returned to store lol
I was in a self defense shooting in 2009. Two armed men came to my home at 3am to harm my family and I. It was deemed a justified homicide according to those who investigated it. I used a stock 1911. 9mm, with 115 gr FMJ ammunition. My gun was thoroughly checked out for modifications, and I was asked many times if I was affiliated with a militia, in or had been in the military, had undergone self defensive firearms training, or had taken any police or security guard courses. From my experience, if you are involved in a shooting, you will be thoroughly investigated . From your firearm and ammunition, to your background and personal life.
Just curious as to what state this was in?
@@JamesS.254 It was in Anderson, Shasta County, Northern California.
@@jerrykirk2126that makes sense because none of that crap matters, unless you’re in criminal defending CA.
These people are lunatics!
I agree, I have a legal aid program(not the sponsor of this YT content). I've been a paid member since 2015. I'm also in a + spot because the lawyer, main advisor lives around 40min from me ⚖️. I'm also a veteran, 4yr & license security officer(armed) since 2000. I by choice carry LE type sidearms, use either HST, Golden Saber-bonded, some Underwood Ammo: .45acp.
It seems like no matter what type of ammo you used, the prosecutor will find a way to use it against you.
@TheDilweed rock salt? Rofl less than lethal.
use 22 cal,shoot for the nuts
@TheDilweed I know three people who where killed in home invasions. I will use what ever it takes to make sure it's only 75% of the people I know die in home invasions. Having said that they will probably be mad no matter what ammo you use. So use what ever you feel at right. Take it to the range and know it will run and where to aim. Shoot it without ear pro so you get the full effect.
It's hard to believe that we live in a time where defending yourself against a criminal who intended to do you harm would require any type of ammunition.
I would say anything that would stop the threat should be just fine.
Funny enough it wasn’t that different 140 years ago either. In fact self defense is more recognized now than it was when Billy the Kid took his first life in 1877 in that instance it was self defense the man had him on the ground and beating the crap out of him when the kid drew is gun and shot him. The reason he ran was because it was known that in a court of law self defense was an extremely high threshold more so than it is today. Now in that particular case it’s been stated that Billy Bonny probably would have come out ok but his chances today would be far better than back then
We have politicians demonizing citizens for owning the same weapons as cops and their own security use.
The fact is expanding ammo is to prevent over penetration and in most states your accountable for the bullets you fire, so if your ammo over penetrates and hits another person you can be charged for the harm of that bystander if it was your bullet that hit them.
Actually, FMJ, non expanding ammo is military grade and is used on the battlefield and is the only ammo that is in compliance with the Geneva Convention because it doesn't expand or fragment, the idea being it will wound in many cases before it kills.
If I'm trying to stop someone from killing me and it's justifiable to shoot him a hollow point would be my first choice because I know it will do a better job of stopping an assailant. One thing is certain and that is if I'm dead court is a non issue. I'll take my chances being judged here on earth rather then being judged by my maker. We have an unaliable right to protect ourselves
True brother but anti gun people get angry at the thought if a law abiding citizen defending themselves with a firearm because it disproves their agenda
That old quote "I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six"
I’ve heard a couple lawyers talk about this before. They’ll use anything they can to paint you have some sort of maniac killer or want to be a killer. If you’re wearing a punisher shirt, or you’ve got a modified firearm, even post to make on the Internet could be used against you because the prosecutors gonna do anything they can to get a conviction and make you look as bad as possible. So if you’re using zombie killer, ammunition, or some thing with an aggressive sounding name, of course they’re going to use that against you.
I choose an EDC model that I don’t have to modify, and that is fairly common so it doesn’t stand out. Also, if it has a name, you have to be a little careful. I carry a shield, but some guns are named like the equalizer, and they might even use that against you.
The ammo is a hard one, a lot of them have aggressive names, I choose Hornady critical defense, because it says defense in the name and it’s a good functional ammo. It’s pretty much the same thing as the zombie killer but without the name. You have to figure out what’s going to protect you best, but these are good things to think about, especially if you live in a blue state where they’re sending innocent people to prison for defending themselves.
Personally i got a makarov. Its well known as a pretty generic and cheap though rugged and reliable if somewhat underpowered weapon with penetration issues. Though it keeps the stopping power of a 380 or a 9mm.
It is also known for being in use by police forces in multiple european countries which are anti weapon, plus for the decoker i.e double safety of the weapon which means i can carry a round in the chamber considerably more safely then many other firearms.
Pair that with critical defense ammo and my logic is it will be pretty hard to argue i got the most deadly firearm i could find. I went for a generic widely used firearm with a lower penertration and good safety features useing a defensive ammo that any reasonable person looking for a DEFENSIVE round would gravitate towards.
Not fool proof of course. But im pretty confident that it would be a DAMN sight easier to convince a jurry i used a reasonable weapon then if i say used my 10mm with black talons for instance.
Otherwise i carry a tarurs G2C with gold dots which is one of the two options my local police department issues to officers. The other being a glock which i refuse to use due to association with gangs and such.
Seems like an attorney would defuse the ammo question by stating that the defendant used expanding ammo to help safeguard other people in the area to avoid over penetration.
As stated in the video though, some states banned expanding ammo outside the home.
Show me where a criminal faced additional charges for the ammo they used in their crimes?
Won’t happen it’s the first thing that they plead down
@@tommyrussell1415ou can own hollow points in nj lol where do ppl get this. You cannot carry them if you’re a civilian but you can carry Hornady flex tips. You guys should really speak to some competent gun enthusiasts in the future. Its funny to me when ppl talk about the notorious hollow or soft point lol. Some guns that’s the only ammo I own. You can shoot whatever the hell you want at the range man and if you think ppl aren’t packing hollows for their bed side gun I have a bridge to sell u
This has been kicked around for as long as 9mm vs 45acp. The truth as far as I've been able to tell is that is that ammo or caliber has never turned a clear cut good shoot into a bad one. It's the grey area cases, like the Harold Fish case in Arizona, where they'll try to make you look guilty based on caliber or ammo choice.
Doesn't matter what gun or ammo you carry. The prosecutor is going to say it's wrong.
That's why you have the right to an attorney of your own.
I’ve also heard to only use factory loads in your self defense firearms. You don’t want the DA to start saying that you fabricated super hot loads for your use in your defensive firearm.
Hollow points are safer for those you don’t intend to hit. It’s called self defense ammo for a very good reason.
A good attorney will know that and use it appropriately in a person's defense.
As if the government cares. You have a gun and are therefore a "far-right domestic terrorist" to them and they will treat you as such.
Unless you are in a Liberal Court room where they dont believe in self-defense under any circumstances they believe the bad guy must have all the advantages
Prosecutor: u know what's even more safe? No bullets at all..
@@504Trey Yeah you want to make sure the person trying to rob rape or kill you has 100% advantage and you have no way to defend yourself or loved ones
I have seen cases attacking everything from hollowpoints to FMJ, Every gun and caliber, if the DA has it in for you they will call a 22lr a sniper rifle. The important part is to be prepared to justify what you carry.
The most dangerous aspect that can derail a lawful justified shooting IS people's own blabbing on the internet, or to other people. In every high profile shooting the internet history is brought into court.
every antigun prosecutor is a nazi. You cannot prove me wrong
They did this with Kyle Rittenhouse.
@@matts1166 It literally doesn't matter what it is, if the state wants to prosecute, they will go for any angle they can. You can do whatever you want to mitigate this but every case I've seen was argued back on the merits of the shooting. The moment the trigger is pulled is game over, doesn't matter if it's a 22lr or 500 magnum, it's shooting to disable to any extent required. I would just avoid anything with cringe marketing like the RIP rounds or whatnot personally as that's most likely whats going to be the center of their case.
Yep, really all you can do.
It should be illegal to use strawman and red herring logic in court.
In the real world if the opposing attorney does not object then you can appeal based on incompetence. If the judge overrules, then that too is grounds for an appeal.
@@a2max280 sure, for another half million dollars that you dont have.
Definitely needed to see this because I never thought of this when defending myself and or others
In New Jersey, if you carry hollow point ammunition outside your house, office or a range, you go straight to jail. Hollow point ammunition is illegal per se in New Jersey.
I have two EDC options in my personal protection tool box, 9mm and .380. That choice is governed by clothing requirements and the amount of ammo that can be comfortably carried. I treat my personal protection like any other task requiring tools. I don't choose the tools because they 'look' right, I choose the tools that are most appropriate for the task and will give me the best outcome. A handgun and the ammunition used in it are combination tools just like a rechargeable drill and the battery it uses, and just as batteries come in different amp hour configurations for small or big jobs, ammunition comes in different configurations for target shooting, hunting, and self defense. In self defense, the stakes are a lot higher when it comes to job completion, and only a fool would choose marginally adequate tools.
Try telling a jury, you were only defending yourself when you shot someone with Hallow Point P+++ Ammunition. Your ammunition choice goes to "Intent" and "The Forethought of Malice." One needs to be able to say "I never meant to hurt anyone, I just had no choice." That's easy to say when one is using cheap target ammunition... Besides the odds of actually having to shoot someone combined with the, only slight difference in performance, between cheap target ammunition and high tech defensive Ammunition, is actually so minimal that it doesn't justify the extra liability.
@@robertslaughter7044 It used to be that how your attorney and/or you presented your reasons for weapon and ammo choice would determine how a jury looked at the final outcome. Now a days with antigun pansies making up the jury pool, I don't hold much hope with a fair trial for a self defense shooting.
It’s honestly very scary to think that the mindset of prosecutors and judges literally go towards “the defendant has the right to self defense, but doesn’t have the right to self-defense because he or she used a kind of ammunition that I don’t like“ so therefore they’re guilty
Wow. Just….. wow
They just be in the courtroom making up laws on the fly 🤣🤣🤣
Defendant: but ya honor since when were self defense ammo considered illegal??
Judge: SINCE NOW!! GUILTY!!!
Defendant: 😢
Oh yeah it's mind numbing!!!!
That's not it. The point is that everything you ever did leading up to an incident is going to be framed in whatever way they have to in order to make it look like you had intent. No matter what your choice of ammo is, an overzealous prosecutor will try to act like it counts as mens rea in order to go for a conviction if that is the route they choose to go. Even then, it doesn't matter what the judge or prosecutor really think, its what the prosecutor gets the jury to think.
So the courts would rather see us take a crescent wrench to a gunfight!?? The badguys have no rules.
When one carries Hollow Points or P+ ammunition that are "saying" I intend to do the greatest bodily harm possible... when one only carries cheap target ammunition they can say "I never wanted to hurt anyone, I just had no choice." It's called "Forethought of Malice." And it could make all of the difference in a Court of Law.
An instructor advised us to say "i use ammunition that has the ability to stop the attacker more effectively" and dont let the prosecutor try to flip it to better killing power, you stick to i was trying to stop them, i stopped them, this ammo stops them better and faster.
I am speaking from a home-defense scenario here, carry is not legal in my country, this is a great argument for a home defense shotgun.
Its crazy that if someone breaks into my home or attacks me I have to worry about what ammunition I used to defend myself and/or my family. Truly only in America. Yes your honor they only broke in to have a cup of coffee.
What treason to have to go to court for defending oneself. So much for freedom.
its a joke its not even america any more
@@ericsmith6677let’s not be joking about that, …
Why are you suprised that the gov wants to make sure the death of someone else was infact self defense? What makes you think you have the right to kill someone (legally) and never have to explain why it was legal.
How do I know you didn't invite that guy into your apartment to buy some drugs and you decided to just kill him and take his drugs and money and say it was self-defense?
@@RPSchonherrbecause of the few bad apples, we all pay. The law, if you can call it that, just looks for the easiest way to police people, by stripping everybody’s rights. Why don’t they concentrate on the actions of the perpetrators? First and foremost!
Remember the Rittenhouse case? The Prosecutor was completely incompetent where it came to firearms. Flagged people with his finger on the rifle trigger, ignorant about muzzle energy when a bullet is fired.
KR wasn't helping things with the "a bullet is a bullet is a bullet" testimony ⚖️. And yes... I was once a 17yr old lad but even then, 1980s I was aware of ballistics, forensic evidence, Col Martin Fackler MD, wound ballistics lab. 📂 Ohhh & the disputed Marshall-Sanow data.
@@DavidLLambertmobile You sound like you glow
@@Daves_Not_Here_Man_76 Patriots and Glowies sound the same in a dying empire.
Ya know that hand loads or standard 223 ammunition for vat it’s should be better for not over penetration than the standard 5.56 solid bullets like the military uses
Unbelievable, this government is out of control
I second that!
Well, USSCA trains and tells its members to contact their local P.D and ask them what they use in their pistols. That be the smart thing to do. And what ever your local P.D use in their pistol use that round or a grain below. I run federal syntech defense SJHP 138 grain. But! I live in Florida. Gun laws are different
You just figuring that out?
@@jamesdelong6401
That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment, to use
arms in defence of so valuable a blessing, on which all the good and evil of life depends,
is clearly my opinion.
George Washington,
letter to George Mason April 5th 1769,you better talk with George
@@anthonyjamieson3875
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
- Benjamin Franklin
Thank God for a fair trial. It's good to know that a prosecutor considered the possibility you're innocent instead of making excuses
I understood the rationale of HOLLOW Point ammunition is that it tends to STAY in the body of the person you are aiming for, THUS Minimizing "over-penetration" and possible injuries to bystanders or people on the other side of plaster walls, bushes, screens, drapes, et cetera.
Even Frangible ammunition can wound innocent bystanders if your aim is a little off.
Wouldn't be a surprise if innocent bystanders have been sliced or nicked by flailing Knife Blades or a cane carried by someone w a bum leg.
You should keep the above to yourself. Not saying you are wrong, but those are personal choices that explaining it on the internet can, and will be used against you in court.
I'm using Jacketed Hollow Points for self defense and will deal with any of their BS arguments in the courtroom. Using FMJ is reckless due to its propensity to over penetrate and hit other objects or people.
Just shows how brilliant the law makers in New Jersey are, it is illegal to have hollow point ammunition must have FMJ. This attorney should know that and should have indicated if stated in court the defense attorney should have noted that the State of New Jersey only authorizes FMJ.
@@aleintstein which further proves there's no such thing as "common sense" gun regulation.
Great video.
I never thought about choice of ammo being twisted this way.
I have carried daily for 49 years.
My states, local, county and troopers use Speer Gold Dot or Federal HST.
That is what I carry. It performs better than the 90% and isn't labeled "cop killer bullets" like the old Federal Nyclad was.
I use a 1911 R.O. Elite Champion, as it is consistent with one inch groups or less at 25 plus yards 1.5 seconds per round.
Gold dots every time!
The mighty 9x19 blowing lungs out by using a non-expanding war ammunition and after having been upgraded in caliber by a brace that was attached
Ol creepy joe said so.
Old Yeller said attaching a brace made it a larger caliber. Also you can fire 1,000 rounds per second and blow the lung out.
I have the wrong 9×19 then.. mine is wayy more underpowered than that.. might have to file a lawsuit for false advertising...
Here in NC, prosecutions in Self Defense Shootings ever getting past a Grand Jury are extremely rare, prosecution enhancement over the use of certain guns and ammo even more rare. In our Common Law here, if it is a clear cut case of violent intent on the part of the aggressor which one can reasonably feel fear that their life or that of another party is in jeopardy, they may employ the use of Deadly Force to prevent or stop such aggression. The gray area of this being Excessive Force which is rather broad and open to interpretation which would generally apply to overreaction (firing when unnecessary or continuing the use of force once the aggressor is out of the fight). I have sat on a murder 2 trial jury where the prosecutors never presented anything past the basic details of the weapon used other than to verify it was the weapon used in the crime. Sat in courts on other trials across the State, same thing, no prosecution enhancement of the weapon or ammo used. The focus was on elements leading up to the shooting and the basic facts in the shooting. I get it that other states are different and that can range wildly from county to county.
I would think it depends on the county. For most, you're probably right. But in Wake or Mecklenburg it could be different. If on the east coast, the DA may give you a medal.
Agree on the state or county. Also the uscca likes to fear monger to get people to sign up for them.
I love living in N.C.!
@@taemien9219the county thing is something I need to get used to. In NJ, there was everything throughout the state.
I try to keep ammo that has "Defense" prominently in it's name, and boldly printed on the box! Just in case I (God forbid) do have to appear in court on a shooting matter someday. That way I will be able to honestly say that when buying bullets for my self protection, I picked the one that was obviously made for that purpose and not a hunting or military round designed to indiscriminately take a life. Your Honor, I just wanted to stop them from murdering me and my family, not to kill them.
Lmao😂
Actually the Military ball ammo is dictated by the Geneva Convention and Military doctrine, The Convention wanted things made easy for the Doctor to remove therefore unlikely to kill, where as Hollowpoints are forbidden. Doctrine is it takes more people away from the battle to tend a wounded Soldier, than just leaving them their stuffing a dog tag in their mouth or boot, and giving the other to the Lt to turn in along with the location of the dead man.
Liberty Civil Defense has entered the conversation lol. No but in all honesty always wondered how ammo that was meant to break apart and create multiple wound channels would fair in the courtroom. Probably not well based on what was said here.
A bullet is a bullet
@@mblake0420 except in a court of law
If we truly lived in a free country we wouldnt have to fear what happens after we defend our selves from crime
I try to be situationally aware and trained up so that I can make the best decision’s possible in the time of need. They are gonna try to find something to get you-stay alert and stay proficient!
No matter what ammo you used in a self defense, the fact you are in a court room having to defend yourself for self defense means the prosecutor is going to bring it up. If you use ball ammo they are going to say that is military grade ammo. If you use hollow points they are going to say you pick an ammo known to cause more damage to the target. They even brought this up in the Kyle Rittenhouse case.
Target ammo is more dangerous it can pass right through hollows is going mushroom on impact
@@darrelljackson1164 aren't hollow points known colloquially as copkillers to those gangster types, and cnn?
@@abcdefbcdefg8352 you really don't have nothing but two kinds of ammo that I know of if they have any issues about why they just stop selling two civilian
@TheDilweed perfectly said what we supposed to shoot with they sell it on the shelf what's the problem 👍
@TheDilweed The point is that no matter what ammo is used, prosecutors are going to make whatever is was sound like you were trying to select the "scariest" thing with the intent to kill people in the worst possible way.
It boils down to this:
If I look like I am ALIVE in court, that’s good.
All the good that will do you if you get a jury of idiots like Matt Hoover, Justin Ervin and Patrick Tate got...
Life without freedom is not living. If you cant beat the court case after the fact you might as well have died.
@@LegDayLasI agree with this.
Best comment 👑
@@LegDayLas
Your opinion.
Self-defense needs to be a right and once established it needs to be protected in law making it a violation of law to prosecute.
It is. In the bill of rights. The right to life and liberty. Simple enough to people like us. Not to the governments in these communist untied states.
Agree, I have often said the writers of the constitution dropped the ball on this .
As a senior citizen......What chance would I have against young thugs without a firearm? There is no easy way to be safe in this corrupt and lawless world.
Self-defense is a right. Corrupt prosecutors try to make self-defense a wrong.
18 U.S.C. §241 Conspiracy against rights BUT you have to prove beyond any shred of doubt that the judge conspired with the prosecution in your case. For that, you're gonna need not only a really good lawyer but a private prosecutor AND a private investigator. ALL of them better know what they're doing, too!
Good word. Good to know. Be prepared- not only physically, but mentally
NO! I've questioned county and city prosecutors regarding this very question. They have all said, "If it's a rightous shooting, no problem." This is a problem that doesn't exist except in the mind of a blogger.
That's why I have "Critical Defense" in my EDC. It happens to be an awsome and effective round, but it has the added bennefit of not being called "Xtreme Penetrator". I can just hear the prosecutor saying that over and over as he points to me while making thrusting motions.
That's Underwood that makes that ammo and it's very good. They also make another very good ammo called Xtreme Defender. YT has some ballistics videos on it. I carry the Defender version.
With their hips!
Bad defense lawyers let this happen. There have been so many cases where this was defeated by a good lawyer.
Prosecutors want to use feelings instead of facts to prosecute you with.
Thomas Dutkiewicz
albert youre spot on and the evidence is supposed to be objective. when they dont have a case they pull at the jurys heart strings to try and get a conviction this is the flaw in the system. Guilt is suppoed to be proven beyond a reaosnble doubt
In NJ we can’t use hollow points, however We can use expanding rounds that includes polymer. Hornady defense rounds for example
I've been told by many many law enforcement officers that it's not allowed to use full solid bullets in target shooting but use hollow point ammunition for concealed carry self defense ammunition.
Red or blue state?
Well, as a USCCA member. And the time I've been with you all. You train and tell us to contact our local P.D. Now, when I did, and they told me. I ask them what I plan on running in my EDC told them federal syntech defense SJHP 138 grain. They said. Run with it, they actually use one up from that. But!!!! Then again I live in Florida. People that want to carry, should be contacting their local P.D and asking them what they use.
Just run normal ammo like speer, Hornady, federal defensive ammo. It's nothing fancy and likely if the officers are buying their own ammo like the small town I live in it's what they're using. I've got some friends in the local police department and sheriff's department and that's what they all say.
All that fancy stuff is designed to take separate you from your money and often doesn't perform in the way we want.
Buy your favorite defense ammo while it is on sale, period. That way if you are ever on the stand and they ask why you chose it, you can honestly say, "because it was on sale" or "it was cheaper".
Cause it was so cheap, my best guess was that it would do the least amount of damage...your honor 😂
Attorney: why did you buy man killer bullets
Me: Walmart had a sale.
Attorney: why did you spend 18 shots into your peaceful attacker
Me: because it only cost .09 cents each 😂😂
👉🇺🇸👈👉⚰👈
New Jersey specifically names like "Hornady Critical Defense".
I've also heard of people getting in trouble for ammo with a hollow dimple in the tip that wasn't a "hollow point".
I think you can use expanding ammo outside the home as long as the tip is filled in.
All that being said, the only expanding ammo I would carry in New Jersey is Hornady Critical Defense because they specifically name it.
I don't want to have to worry if my ammo is "like" Hornady Critical Defense enough to be considered legal.
If I lived in New Jersey I would move 😂
Critical defense is good. Shot placement is critical.
@@chumdog6060I did! Best life decision ever!
I carry a 57, and use hollow points to prevent over penetration, thus reducing over penetration collateral damage. As a former resident of PA *now living in Texas), I am aware of NJ's stupid ban,.
I have various brands of self defensive ammo not because I chose to have it that way. I had limited choices during the "ammo shortage" over the past few years and I'm not throwing it away. It was made as defensive rounds and I will carry it that way.
Use incendiary rounds
It all boils down to what the jury or judge feels the day or days or your trial.
Remember kids, it’s not the bullets that get you sent to jail, it’s your finger prints on the shell casings. Keep those puppies polished. 👌🏼
And wear latex gloves
A revolver is like a good camper.....leave no trace...
can you point me in the direction of proof? I could have sworn I read that the prints are burnt off upon firing
I've got fake hunter Biden finger tip covers, I know they won't even investigate the shooting once they see those prints.
@@battlegroundoneshouldn’t you be the one providing proof of your statement?
I love watching these videos as it's good info. The problem is the more of these videos of yours that I watch the more it makes me not want to carry daily. You make it sound like the courts will make me out to be the Perp instead of the Victim in a self defense encounter.
That is because some District Attorneys will, and some police officers will also.
I know what you mean. You may beat the rap but you won't survive the ride. In a CCW class I was in I remember being shocked when they talked about the legal cost of defending yourself being upwards of 50k-100k or more. Many people would rather die by an attacker than put their families into poverty I think.
It's worth remembering, that even though these guys are offering you insight... They get paid by people clicking and watching their videos. They get paid by people buying their insurance.
It's their job to make you fearful of what "could" happen!
Of course, a DA is going to come after you for your gun, or your ammo, but consider, how did you come to your decision to use the specific carry ammo you have? In my case, I learned it is among the most reliable and safest I could buy. And, in the event I have to defend myself, or others, I want to make sure as few people as possible get help. I'd assume that's self evident, because the only reason I carry (not saying I do), is to help keep innocent people safe.
@@flexinclouds Agreed! My only point is, don't stress about the "worst case scenarios" they throw out there, they do it for clicks! It likely won't happen to you, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared if it does, so of course, take away the lessons!
@@flexinclouds Having carry insurance will absolutely be used against you too. They'll say things like "he has insurance, so he was obviously expecting to shoot someone". It's insane the level of mental gymnastics these people go through to turn things you do to protect yourself into offensive actions. These same people view literal body armor as being a "weapon".
I am a CC holder in NJ we are not allowed to carry hollow point in our EDC but we can carry polymer filled Ammo. like critical defense etc. yes it is asinine I 💯 agree
There is no law that says you have to use a certain type of ammo for self-defense, make sure your lawyer understand and is well verse and understand the different types of ammunitions, also the 12 people that are judging were not smart enough to get out of jury duty. Lastly don't talk to cops alone without a lawyer present even if you were justified.
Colorado its illegal to use FMJ for self-defense. It's a felony if you do so.
@@KingJohn2007 Come to Texas, you can use what ever you want.
@@KingJohn2007 That's a load of BS. Go read Title 18 section 12 and educate yourself.
I guess in line with this question. When I retired from my police department, I was "gifted" a case of our issue rounds, 180gr .40 Winchester Ranger T. I have since moved nearly 200 miles away from my old jurisdiction. We were more than satisfied with the performance of the round so I wonder if I would have any issues since I use the round as my edc.
In my opine, ccw user & armed security officer; I'd shoot up that Ranger T .40 & buy a new factory fresh box of Federal HST 165gr or maybe some Speer Gold Dot 165gr. I would not carry or wear the same ccw rounds, 12mo 24mo 36mo. Swap it out, shoot it every 6-8mo. Lint, grit, crud, grime can seep in, the cause problems. A box of LE rounds, 50 run $30-40. Practice with the old stuff.
More corruption from the cops and their overlords.
Y'all are pathetic dude . They didn't have the authority to give you something they didn't own.. tax payers bought that case of ammo..
And you didn't have the integrity not to accept it.
Typical behavior from government thugs .. whole career spent crapping on the constitution and their oath. And get rewarded with stolen ammunition
It won't matter, if they prosecute you, it will all be the wrong one. Just like the DEA at airports claiming, "drug mules are first off the plane", "drug mules are last off the plane", "drug mules come off in the middle", what ever they need to justify stopping you and searching.
Had a lawyer tell me one time that you should always carry the same ammo as the police in your area; the idea being that No prosecutor is going to go after the ammunition that the police use.
That's solid legal advice BUT I'd say honestly not all PDs or cops have rigid standards, procurement policy. 🗃 I talked to a small town PD Sgt, early 2010s in Florida. He said they bought, picked rounds based on prices, what the distributor would offer deals on. Mainly Speer Gold Dot.
Had a lawyer from Virginia tell me that I should carry ammo that goes boom when I pull the trigger, and will not blow my gun, and hands up.
Man brother... If the prosecutor is coming after you because of the bullets you used.. they were gonna come after you over something anyway
@@DavidLLambertmobile That’s why I carry a Glock 19, with Federal Hydroshocks, because that is what my Federal Agent counterparts carry. As long as you can articulate why you carry that type of pistol and use that type of ammunition, it is one less thing the prosecutor can use against you.
@@walkingwolf8072 that’s cute. And when you have a questionable shoot and the DA is trying to convince the Grand Jury why you should or should not be prosecuted, I’m certain they will take into account such wise advice.
If the ammo and firearms are in the “public domain” then “why” should it be a problem. The major problems are the judges who do not understand the laws correctly and should sanction the unprofessional lawyers who exploit the system. The US judicial system needs to be more professional with their actions.
Heard some good advice on ammo, and had a similar thought myself.
1)Advice.... Find out what the county/state officers use, and simply use that. If it's ok for them, it's ok for me.
2)What I did before this.... Signed up at a new range (CC classes), Walked up to the counter and ask for a box of (x-mm) and gave no other info to see what they instinctively hand you for use on the range. Mine has a fairly well know brand I'd never used, but see is sort of the "house brand" as it's what everyone is shooting, as evidenced by the boxes in the trash and stock on hand.
Ever go to court, questioned about the ammo choice..... Simple answer, easily proven.
In states where hps are illegal, wouldn’t this be a situation where the USCCA would drop your case?
Probably....Remember this, USCCA is an insurance company and like any other they WILL try to avoid a payout if they can
It’s crazy we have to worry about these things when protecting our children and ourselves. honestly it’s probably safer using hollow points because there’s less chance of over penetration .
The more basic you can go the better. I generally use either Winchester white box JHP or Remington Green & White box JHP. I've found both to be very capable rounds, with reliable expansion, and decent accuracy. There's something to be said for being the guy with the basic, but functional ammo and gear. As for firearm I have three go to firearms, Beretta 92FS, Smith & Wesson 5906, and Sig P320 Compact. All are pretty mundane ordinary firearms, not custom race guns. And although all have a few minor "custom touches", those touches are grips on the Beretta & Smith, and sights on the Sig, and those grips don't have Punisher logos or anything like that on them, they are just grips. And the sights on the Sig are fairly common night sights.
Except jhp in the real world fails to expand as advertised a significant percentage.
@@teller1290 All JHP has that risk. That said, the alternative is FMJ, which is almost guaranteed to over penetrate.
Military ammunition design, to my understanding, is based on the idea that soldiers are honorable men, therefore bullets that do more trauma than necessary to disable (read the Ballad of Boh Da Thone by Rudyard Kipling) were forbidden.
Recently there was a video in which a man described how he was shot 14 times with .45 ACP hollow point bullets before he drew and mortally wounded his assailant.
Ball ammunition is relatively inexpensive.
Even high quality hollow point ammunition fired from a handgun not guaranteed to incapacitate an assailant even with solid hits (I knew a man that was shot with an anti-tank round through both legs AND a pistol round to his head, during the same battle 6 years before I was born and survived.)
My understanding of CCW ammo is that hollow point is the best. It does the most damage while lessening the potential for extended travel putting other bystanders at risk.
I shoot inexpensive hollow point at the range only.
Ever notice that there is virtually no information about judges who are running for a position in a court? This is the reason I've abstained from voting for any judge during the last several elections. Just because they are qualified or have experience on the bench doesn't mean squat to me if I don't know anything about their background.
Never point your gun at anything you don't intend to 'destroy'. Know your target and what is beyond your target. And nearly every thing I've ever heard from ANY instructor is to aim for center mass. It's a ridiculous argument these lawyers make when it comes to ammo type, as gun owners we all understand that shooting to stop the threat doesn't mean shoot to scare, maim or injure. But then again this is an argument from ignorant lawyers to manipulate the ignorant juror, and possibly an ignorant judge.
Hello from Italy. According to Italian law, hollow point ammo is strictly forbidden for self defense. I didn't expect it could be a legal problem stateside
No so iam fully loaded with hallopoints
It shouldn’t make a difference what kind of ammo it is , if your in a situation that you have to defend yourself you got ask yourself what is the purpose of a gun ? It’s to protect yourself from a life threatening situation !
NJ Police active and retired, may use hollow point ammunition. Citizens may have hollow point ammo in the home and use it at the range but not for carry.
From the NJSP website: "Ammunition lacking a hollow cavity at the tip, such as those with a polymer filling, are not considered to be hollow point ammunition. An example of this can be seen with the Hornady Critical Defense / Critical Duty, Cor-Bon PowRball / Glaser Safety Slug and Nosler Inc. Defense ammunition." I would say Hornady "Critical Defense" and the monolithic Underwood "Xtreme Defender" are the most popular bullets used for CC in NJ.
I live in a mag ban state. My philosophy is that, if the state is going to limit the number of rounds available to me, I’m going to use a caliber that delivers the best chance of stopping an attack with the fewest shots fired.
We joined USCCA in Feb 2023 in part because of these very informative videos. We switched from a competitor. My wife and consider the Concealed Carry Magazine we received with top notch information a big plus.
Sadly uscca rarely covers you if it seems criminal
@@Plutooo4Lagree read the fine print
I use the cheapest ammo range I can find. If they ask... why I used that ammo... I was not expecting to have to defend myself - it was loaded for going to the range.
Hell yea
New Jersey's prohibition is on "hollow point" ammunition, not all expanding ammunition. Ballistic tip ammunition (like Critical Defense) is not illegal, nor is tumble on impact ammunition. That being said, you may still be charged with possession of illegal ammunition as happened not that long ago when a security guard was charged with carrying prohibited ammunition when he had Critical Defense ammunition even though the agency in charge of guns and ammo (the State Police) had ruled that the ammunition was not illegal.
Expanding ammunition is really the most responsible way to go. A round stuck in a perpetrator is a round not striking an innocent person beyond said threat
What ammo does a court bailiff carry anyway? Or the judge, many of whom are armed.
Rubber bullets? j/k
I'm certainly no expert, but I've heard that a lot of judges like to carry the .45/410 Judge. They like the name of the gun. It's a Taurus.
Fun Hollywood fact: in the court, Judge daytime series The People's Court: mainly 1980s 1990s. Rusty, the show baliff wore a REAL loaded .357magnum revolver. A 6" Colt Python. Rusty was a real retired LA county court baliff.
@@gj4578 Very well then. I won't "Judge".
Overpenetration was something I worried about. The store recommended .357 for home defense ammo. I went with 38+p instead.
You can fire .38 Special +P in a .357 Magnum revolver.
@@oscargrouch7962 yes. I bought a .357 and chose .38+p to go in it. .357 is for giggles at the range. I doubt I will find a situation where I need to fend off a large animal.
@@oscargrouch7962 Wife's little revolver can eat .357SWC It's a .38 go figure
@@DisHammerhand First man I ever shot with a sidearm was with a 686 wasn't for giggles and grins though
@@ScrappyXFL What kind of husband would let his wife shoot .357 Magnum ammunition in a .38 Special revolver (even if it did fit)? Go figure.
So ridiculous. If you threaten my life by trying to take it away. You forfeit yours.
What type of ammo does law enforcement officers use?
Just keep in mind: under USCCA policy if you are facing criminal charges they are NOT obligated to help you in any way shape or form. Its right in the contract you signed to get your membership.
so whats the point of membership?
@nmoore8994 there really isn't one. They even state in the policy if they do represent you and you are found guilty they can sue you for their court costs in defending you
Going to jail for this, going to jail for that..they talk about banning everything to defend yourself but nevermind the d#mn criminals that violate peoples rights..😡😡
My plan is to mug anyone that breaks into my home.
I've always recommended that you find out what ammunition your state police/highway patrol use, then use the exact ammo in your carry/home defense pistol. If the state deemed the ammunition adequate for Troopers, and your're paying for it as a taxpayer, then its good for you. Let the prosecutor try to jump that hoop. Exotic ammo like rip or other ginsu blade body shredding ammo will be your down fall.
Good post, I'd add many times ammunition or guns can vary depending on budgets, contracts, factory issues, weather etc. The NJ State Troopers sued SIG Sauer over the P229 9mm "Classic" guns. SIG blamed improper 9mm training loads. I'd agree on avoiding gimmick or fancy "cool" brands like Fort Scott, RIP, DRT, Nova, PowRball, Glaser Safety-Silver. Stay with rounds that do well in FBI protocol tests.
@@DavidLLambertmobile thank you, and yes, stay away from FBI test ammo, I forgot that one.
It's illegal to use what they use.
@@Roadking556 I believe you are incorrect. The same ammunition the GSP uses (Speer Gold Dot 124gr for full size sidearm 9mm +p) is available in any gun shop for sale to civilians.
The ONLY anmunition barred for use for civilians to own is armor piercing rifle or pistol. Might want to check out your source.🤷♂️
Oh and armor piercing is banned by the feds, not State.
The court system is so outdated that the law abiding citizens will never walk out of that court room with their rights.
Ive heard this very topic from some instructors. They all recommend to carry what the local police carry or something that doesn't sound menacing.
If I had to guess, it would be uo to the judge or the jury in the end anyway, cuz we all know that the prosecutor is going to try to get you locked up regardless probably.
In California, the CHP and local LEO’s carry .40 cal service weapons because there has been many reported cases of 9mm rounds not penetrating doors of vehicles and/or bouncing off of windshields in some cases. In almost all cases, law enforcement officers are allowed to carry hollow-points and I don’t have an issue with that. Follow their orders and show due respect and you will always be able to walk away unharmed. 👍
With 10mm it depends on the load. If you get the FBI loads they were seriously nerfed. So you could carry those in town and full power loads in the back country.
Remember Newhall, the CHiPs qualified with 38 special but carried 357 mag.
no hits.
Practice a lot with your carry load.
Time to put the court system in jail...
The difference between .22 and .223 is a simple grain of truth that turns to powder depending on how quick you really are.
Expanding JHP ammo helps prevent over-penetration. FMJ or full metal jacket it typically cheap tarthet amm and more likely to over-penetrate. Military ammo - in this case, would carry a NATO designation such as Sig's M17 124gr 9mm NATO rounds. Any attorney who failed to convey that to a judge and jury probably has little experience in this type of case and would be likely not suited for the case.
best to use .45
even non-hollow completely wrecks whatever it hits because slower velocity + high mass
I use Hornady "Critical Defense" as opposed to "Critical Duty" for everyday carry and I suggest the RUclips video on the differences between them.
I do too, but any round should be permissible as long as it isn’t designed to penetrate bystanders
It seems to not matter to a prosecutor determined to burn you what you used, they will find an angle to make it sound bad.