It has now become a little boring reading ill-informed comments suggesting Pacers were 'cheap' without any evidence to back their statements up. I decided to do a bit of research and came up with some real facts and figures: In the mid 1980s when they were new, a two carriage Class 142 unit cost £350k per unit. A two carriage Class 143 unit cost £300k. A two carriage Class 150/1 Sprinter unit cost £500k per unit, (the latter had a 30 year fatique design life and in recent times there have been severe corrosion issues with some units). When built it was estimated that bogies would have added around £30k to each Pacer carriage. The lower price of the Class 143 was due to competitive tendering by Walter Alexander Coachbuilders of Falkirk. This information came from BRITISH RAIL FLEET SURVEY 9 Diesel Multiple Units The Second Generation and DEMUs by Brian Haresnape, published by Ian Allan Ltd 1986. ISBN 0 7110 1604 6. At this time, a new double decker bus cost around £80k. It can be seen that ONE Class 142 carriage cost over twice the price of a new double decker bus. This was due to the rail nature of the underframe (which was not merely a bus chassis as alleged, but rail based and was built by BREL Derby for Class 141,142 and 144s or Alexander Barclay Kilmarnock for Class 143s. I have not been able to find out the further costs of the various modifications made to Pacers over the years. The main ones were fitting Voith transmission to all Class 142, 143 and 144s by March 1991, due to the high failure rate of the original flawed SCG gearboxes, (probably around £10 - £14m). A direct operating braking system was fitted in 1990-1. The Leyland TL11 engines were replaced by Cummins LT10Rs between March 1993 and April 1996 (to an extent this was due to normal wear and tear, as BR had found that it was more economical to buy new Cummins engines than overhaul the Leyland ones), plus new doors/door mechanisms at the same time. When Pacers were first introduced, the ride quality was certainly a problem on some lines, due to the large amount of poor jointed track that was still around. It is not so much now. In fact the the carriage ends of the Siemens Desiro Class 185s and 350s are not that much smoother than a Pacer when going over points, despite having bogies.
Hornebeeddublo Thanks for your very informative comments. I dislike the trend nowadays to slag off all older stock and then the same people who want brand new trains complain about the fares going up. Cash strapped BR were to be commended in keeping older trains running. My local (Basingstoke) older trains are Class 159s (members of the Sprinter family) and were manufactured by BREL Derby. I always try to go on them since I prefer to travel on a British train (it's bad enough that virtually all cars are now not British designed) with comfortable seats. The Class 159 actually is quite modern being complete with toilets fitted with waste tanks. Pollution wise the Diesel engines could do with replacement with Euro 6 type (like the modern HGV which are really clean) since they do produce visible smoke at times.
HORNEBEEDUBLO thank you citing your source for the costs. But yoy'll never turn the haters in to lovers with facts. People don't like the Pacers becaue they came along and replace their favourite 1st generation DMUs, just as those DMUs killed off the local steam locomotives. I still remember the thrill I got coming home from lunch one day and seeing my first Class 143 on the Saltburn-Darlington line. By the time I got to the station at Longbeck it was long gone and don't know which one it was and if it was in service. It was several days before I got my next glimpse of one of the new order.
@@neildahlgaard-sigsworth3819 if you like pacers the saltburn to bishop auckland line will still have them for the next 6mths at least as the new class 195's are in backlog, still 38 awaiting delivery our 142's will be replaced over the above time frame with class 156/158's which are in face only 3yrs younger than the pacers
Thank you for the information. I do love a good Pacer and while they certainly aren't the most luxurious of trains are there are smoother rides available they perform a service and I suspect for some lines are the best option available. I doubt the Darlington to Whitby or Sheffield to York (via Meadowhall) lines are going to get a shiny new Azuma any time soon and to be honest I enjoy the journey on them travelling around the north and midlands of England. Pacers remind me of my car, cheap reliable and basic but they get the job done.
Better than the modern trash nowadays. And the cranks will be out riding on them when they are being withdrawn. At least you can move about properly in the cab unlike at lot of other 2nd generation DMUs, and something of a rarity these days, you can open a window too.
You are really joking Edward. Pacers are totally crap trains, horrible ride, smoke belching abominations. They maybe British made but they are totally shit.
York is my home station that i frequent a lot so it was amazing to see such unfamiliar trains in such a familiar place! Edit: and middlesbrough! Crazy to see a direct service to leeds on a pacer lol
some of the class 142s in first great western services are now withdrawn leaving just the 143 pacers still here in Devon and Cornwall on first great western services
If only they have been articulated pairs or triples mounted on bogies, they would have ridden perfectly well. There was nothing wrong with the concept.
Ah yes, the wet fart exhaust note of the pacers. Glad they're going to be replaced next year. Well, hopefully, but you have to take everything Northern Fail say with a pinch of salt.
These were cheap and nasty then, and remain so. A crappy Leyland National bus body on a goods wagon underframe. Only during the Thatcher years could such a thing have been passed as okay to use. The Class 210 Diesel Electric was a far better option, but too expensive for her. A strange variant of the 210, the "450/Castle Class" appeared in Northern Ireland, well at least it LOOKED that way. They grafted MK3 suburban bodyshells onto old MK1 underframes, and reused the power equipment from their 1960's "River Class/ 70 Class" DEMU sets. The carbodies came from BREL and the engines and generators, traction motors,by English Electric, etc, were refurbished by NIR and installed in their new homes. Happily one set, 458, Antrim Castle, has been preserved.
Look up NIR 450 class on here and you'll see what a strange, hybrid beast those were. The railbuses alas continue to bounce all over the track. One solution that's being looked into is the conversion of ex-London Underground "surface" D stock into DEMUs. It's called the Vivarail D train. Have a look, you'd be surprised, in a pleasant way. Ford diesel engines and alternators provide power for the original traction motors.
I have to strongly disagree regarding the Pacers. They are bright and airy and the ride quality is a lot better than the first generation DMUs that they replaced. (I consider that the Class 104 and 150/1s are the worst DMUs that I have ever travelled on). Other European countries had their own railbuses including France and Germany. The Germans loved their Uerdingen raibuses. From what I've read, the Class 210 had similar bodywork to the Class 150s and EMU variants such as Class 319s. These leave a lot to be desired, as some seats do not lign up with the windows and natural ambiance is very poor which is of paramount importance. On top of this the 150s and the other 15x classes (except a minority of Class 158s with Perkins Phaser 2006-TWH engines) have the 1960s designed Cummins NTA855R engines, the noise from which is very aggravating to put it mildy. I know a train guard who says that criticism of Pacers is over exaggerated and he actually prefers to work them. They are a lot faster to board and alight than the Class 156s with their narrow doorways. I would argue that instead of any Pacers or Class 150s, a large production run of the Metro Cammell Class 151 with BREL bogies, Voith gearboxes and quieter engines than Cummins NTA855R5s would have been a lot better option On another point, the recent Metrolink M5000 trams have less seating and (despite having bogies) ride a lot worse than Pacers, yet no one seems to complain about them, or the fact that a number of former heavy rail lines in Greater Manchester have been converted to Metrolink providing a less comfortbale service at greater fares.
Absolute marvellous. Sounds like 142025 has been a bit of a beast for 20+ years
It has now become a little boring reading ill-informed comments suggesting Pacers were 'cheap' without any evidence to back their statements up.
I decided to do a bit of research and came up with some real facts and figures:
In the mid 1980s when they were new, a two carriage Class 142 unit cost £350k per unit. A two carriage Class 143 unit cost £300k. A two carriage Class 150/1 Sprinter unit cost £500k per unit, (the latter had a 30 year fatique design life and in recent times there have been severe corrosion issues with some units). When built it was estimated that bogies would have added around £30k to each Pacer carriage.
The lower price of the Class 143 was due to competitive tendering by Walter Alexander Coachbuilders of Falkirk.
This information came from BRITISH RAIL FLEET SURVEY 9 Diesel Multiple Units The Second Generation and DEMUs by Brian Haresnape, published by Ian Allan Ltd 1986. ISBN 0 7110 1604 6.
At this time, a new double decker bus cost around £80k. It can be seen that ONE Class 142 carriage cost over twice the price of a new double decker bus. This was due to the rail nature of the underframe (which was not merely a bus chassis as alleged, but rail based and was built by BREL Derby for Class 141,142 and 144s or Alexander Barclay Kilmarnock for Class 143s.
I have not been able to find out the further costs of the various modifications made to Pacers over the years. The main ones were fitting Voith transmission to all Class 142, 143 and 144s by March 1991, due to the high failure rate of the original flawed SCG gearboxes, (probably around £10 - £14m). A direct operating braking system was fitted in 1990-1. The Leyland TL11 engines were replaced by Cummins LT10Rs between March 1993 and April 1996 (to an extent this was due to normal wear and tear, as BR had found that it was more economical to buy new Cummins engines than overhaul the Leyland ones), plus new doors/door mechanisms at the same time.
When Pacers were first introduced, the ride quality was certainly a problem on some lines, due to the large amount of poor jointed track that was still around. It is not so much now. In fact the the carriage ends of the Siemens Desiro Class 185s and 350s are not that much smoother than a Pacer when going over points, despite having bogies.
Hornebeeddublo Thanks for your very informative comments.
I dislike the trend nowadays to slag off all older stock and then the same people who want brand new trains complain about the fares going up.
Cash strapped BR were to be commended in keeping older trains running.
My local (Basingstoke) older trains are Class 159s (members of the Sprinter family) and were manufactured by BREL Derby. I always try to go on them since I prefer to travel on a British train (it's bad enough that virtually all cars are now not British designed) with comfortable seats.
The Class 159 actually is quite modern being complete with toilets fitted with waste tanks. Pollution wise the Diesel engines could do with replacement with Euro 6 type (like the modern HGV which are really clean) since they do produce visible smoke at times.
HORNEBEEDUBLO thank you citing your source for the costs. But yoy'll never turn the haters in to lovers with facts. People don't like the Pacers becaue they came along and replace their favourite 1st generation DMUs, just as those DMUs killed off the local steam locomotives.
I still remember the thrill I got coming home from lunch one day and seeing my first Class 143 on the Saltburn-Darlington line. By the time I got to the station at Longbeck it was long gone and don't know which one it was and if it was in service. It was several days before I got my next glimpse of one of the new order.
@@neildahlgaard-sigsworth3819 if you like pacers the saltburn to bishop auckland line will still have them for the next 6mths at least as the new class 195's are in backlog, still 38 awaiting delivery our 142's will be replaced over the above time frame with class 156/158's which are in face only 3yrs younger than the pacers
Thank you for the information. I do love a good Pacer and while they certainly aren't the most luxurious of trains are there are smoother rides available they perform a service and I suspect for some lines are the best option available. I doubt the Darlington to Whitby or Sheffield to York (via Meadowhall) lines are going to get a shiny new Azuma any time soon and to be honest I enjoy the journey on them travelling around the north and midlands of England. Pacers remind me of my car, cheap reliable and basic but they get the job done.
@@neildahlgaard-sigsworth3819 he’s not trying to do turn hater’s into lovers he is just speaking facts
very kind for the pacer driver to let you in the drivers eye view of the class 142 to grosmont change here for the north Yorkshire moors railway
as of today the class 144 is now a 3 car pacer for the services in the Yorkshire area and one of them has been moved to tyseley
Better than the modern trash nowadays. And the cranks will be out riding on them when they are being withdrawn. At least you can move about properly in the cab unlike at lot of other 2nd generation DMUs, and something of a rarity these days, you can open a window too.
You are really joking Edward. Pacers are totally crap trains, horrible ride, smoke belching abominations. They maybe British made but they are totally shit.
ive seen the class 142 and 143 pacers david
oo i love the sound of a good pacer
York is my home station that i frequent a lot so it was amazing to see such unfamiliar trains in such a familiar place!
Edit: and middlesbrough! Crazy to see a direct service to leeds on a pacer lol
some of the class 142s in first great western services are now withdrawn leaving just the 143 pacers still here in Devon and Cornwall on first great western services
And now those too have been removed from service just a few days ago... seems like the only place to see them soon will be in preservation.
@@nitrax8629have they
If only they have been articulated pairs or triples mounted on bogies, they would have ridden perfectly well. There was nothing wrong with the concept.
Did both axle's pull, or just one axle? Pretty interesting construction
AFAIK both axles are driven but I may be wrong.
Only the rear axle on each vehicle are powered.
Thank you for correcting my mistake!
@@david-othen Yea the axels also screech a lot
Perttu Karttunen one pulled the other pushed at the same time.
i wish i could ride a pacer
Ah yes, the wet fart exhaust note of the pacers. Glad they're going to be replaced next year. Well, hopefully, but you have to take everything Northern Fail say with a pinch of salt.
pacers
These were cheap and nasty then, and remain so. A crappy Leyland National bus body on a goods wagon underframe. Only during the Thatcher years could such a thing have been passed as okay to use. The Class 210 Diesel Electric was a far better option, but too expensive for her. A strange variant of the 210, the "450/Castle Class" appeared in Northern Ireland, well at least it LOOKED that way. They grafted MK3 suburban bodyshells onto old MK1 underframes, and reused the power equipment from their 1960's "River Class/ 70 Class" DEMU sets. The carbodies came from BREL and the engines and generators, traction motors,by English Electric, etc, were refurbished by NIR and installed in their new homes. Happily one set, 458, Antrim Castle, has been preserved.
Yes the railbuses were terrible. I am surprised the British public tolerated them! Never saw the NIR Castles!
Look up NIR 450 class on here and you'll see what a strange, hybrid beast those were. The railbuses alas continue to bounce all over the track. One solution that's being looked into is the conversion of ex-London Underground "surface" D stock into DEMUs. It's called the Vivarail D train. Have a look, you'd be surprised, in a pleasant way. Ford diesel engines and alternators provide power for the original traction motors.
I have to strongly disagree regarding the Pacers. They are bright and airy and the ride quality is a lot better than the first generation DMUs that they replaced. (I consider that the Class 104 and 150/1s are the worst DMUs that I have ever travelled on). Other European countries had their own railbuses including France and Germany. The Germans loved their Uerdingen raibuses. From what I've read, the Class 210 had similar bodywork to the Class 150s and EMU variants such as Class 319s. These leave a lot to be desired, as some seats do not lign up with the windows and natural ambiance is very poor which is of paramount importance. On top of this the 150s and the other 15x classes (except a minority of Class 158s with Perkins Phaser 2006-TWH engines) have the 1960s designed Cummins NTA855R engines, the noise from which is very aggravating to put it mildy.
I know a train guard who says that criticism of Pacers is over exaggerated and he actually prefers to work them. They are a lot faster to board and alight than the Class 156s with their narrow doorways.
I would argue that instead of any Pacers or Class 150s, a large production run of the Metro Cammell Class 151 with BREL bogies, Voith gearboxes and quieter engines than Cummins NTA855R5s would have been a lot better option
On another point, the recent Metrolink M5000 trams have less seating and (despite having bogies) ride a lot worse than Pacers, yet no one seems to complain about them, or the fact that a number of former heavy rail lines in Greater Manchester have been converted to Metrolink providing a less comfortbale service at greater fares.
No the Pacers are crap!!
Railbuses of other countries: www.wikiwand.com/it/Autobus_su_rotaia#
Corsican 'Class 142' with bogies: www.flickr.com/photos/39578273@N05/24301348758
Those awful 142 pacers
EW PACER