All the Elmers I’ve talk to said insulated wire is not effected by touching a tree limb. Just make sure the last 10 to 15 feet doesn’t touch the tree as Dave said, that’s where the voltage is. That is based on 100 watt radio. If you use 500 watts or more the tree limbs need to be further away.
I absolutely agree with you and slimygreen on the concept. I had to laugh at the spell check, though, and I want to know just how many radio wights you have counted? Thanks for the chuckle and 73! de KB3HUC
I’ve got a Buckmaster OCF insulated wire antenna which is very tough as I live where the winds get so high, you wouldn’t believe me if I told you the MPH. I am just now putting it up and rather than hanging the feedpoint directly in a tree, I am putting it on a pulley suspended on a line that stretches between two tree tops. It’s the only way I could figure out how to haul it up and down without catching on the dense pine branches. I will also hang the antenna ends (weighted) from pulleys so the whole affair should have good play when the wind swirls (or it will totally fall apart - time will tell!). Good luck getting the antenna up that high! I bought an arborist throw line and weight - it looks like it will work for the 30’ I have to work with, but it will take some practice! Be careful and good luck!
I have this exact situation just lower and I have made over 3000 contacts in over 70 countries and all 7 contentedness in the past 6 years mostly on ssb and no more than 100 watts.
I know ladderline is sensitive to near objects and should be installed using standoffs.....but hey, I've lived with ladderline laying on the house roof, going up a metal mast etc....and I'm still here and worked lotsa stations over the years, impedance bumps and all. Like John Wayne you to say: A ham has to do what a ham has to do. My biggest obstacle to antennas has been and always will be the XYL .... 73 / k6sdw
Dave, 1. he is asking about an OCF dipole and is thinking that it would offer some kind of extra directivity (he wants to work Europe). 2. He is concerned about the the effects of the trees/foliage on the antenna radiation pattern (hence directivity in his opinion) and the SWR (impedance changes) again due to the limbs of the antenna wires passing through the branches and the leaves. 3. Here I suppose he is thinking of the OCF dipole with fixed impedance at the feed point (like 200-300 ohms that would be interfaced with a 4:1 or 6:1 voltage transformer) 4. Yes, his worries are real. The RF in the VHF and UHF bands are practically invisible to the foliage. But the HF spectrum RF energy, being of low frequency (meanig low photon energy) would be absorbed by the dense trees even in the far field of radiation. You explained that the moisture associated with the sap would be conductive and hence the precious RF would be turned into heat. 5. I do agree with what you said about the open wire feeder. But he is not thinking of using the open wire, I believe. 6. OCF dipole is like any wire dipole fed in the centre; apart from the broadside radiation (like the center fed dipole with a gain of 2.15 dBi) it doesn't promise any specific extra directivity gain towards one direction or the other. He should keep it in mind. Thanks for the video, Dave. De VU2RZA
You did well to discuss a dipole but your discussion didn't detail issues with OCFD installations. You should use a voltage balun to match the OCFD impedance.
Hello Dave - let me first say I'm a watcher / subscriber of your channel and I really appreciate the content you've created and your efforts. I've got a homebrewed buddipole design antenna made from the public plans published by Budd Drummond W3FF, and have that on my 2nd (top) story apartment porch on a mast (painters' pole) that raises the height to about 14' - which puts the ground leg of the dipole just over the top of the roof. The way I angle it, the driven side is near some tree branches (best I can do under apartment living) and so far the management company isn't commenting either way - I'm sure they are aware of it as it's been up 24x7 for about a month or more. What I've seen on the VNA is to achieve a decent sloping SWR curve from bottom to top, with the center at about 1.4:1 to 1.6:1 with lower and upper band edges showing about 1.8:1, I have to angle the driven element toward some tree branches. It seems if I get too close the SWR curve changes and the center SWR climbs up. I'm supposing this is normal since the tree branch is either interfering with the radiated signal or is coupling to it? If that's the case, how can I prevent that? I had a G5RV when I owned property set up as an inverted vee, with the ends secured by dacron rope to a tree on either end, and that seemed to have no effect on my SWR. Why in my current application is the tree messing with my signal? Radio Gremlins maybe? LOL But seriously it's got me curious. First serious foray I've undergone to home brew HF antennas. More rewarding for me to build it myself and get it working than buy something commercial for 4X the price. TNX & 73! KI6JPE / Dave
I get 11 bands on my end fed half wave. It gets 8 bands in the normal configuration. Then I have an antenna relay to feed the EFHW as a vertical for 160m (which also works OK for 60m and 6m). Less than 2:1 SWR on all bands. See Steve Ellington videos to see how the added relay is installed.
I put up a horizontal loop in a quad shape about 20 feet in the air above the trees. I found 14AWG insulated wire on Ebay for $28 per 500ft roll shipped and made this 551 feet in total length. This is tunable from 160M to 10M with excellent SWRs. If you google Horizontal Delta loops, you can get multiband options that are relatively inexpensive. KI5DFU
Your diagram shows the oax running dow the tree to what I am assuming is the ground, so how do you run that to the house while it is on the ground. Or alteraternatively, you run just a short distance of coax down the trunk leaving enough height to go to the house. Can you explain more about that issue. Good video. Thanks
Get some direct burial coax that can live under ground. You might want some gravel around the coax for drainage and to slow you down if you go digging after forgetting exactly where the line was.
Been thinking about a NVIS. On 40 and 20 m. Running them 90ﾟ out of phase with separate coax. Will it make a difference in height or should they both run the same height. what would be your input.
Hey what's up guys this is Ricky from Fort Worth Texas I'm having a problem I have a rectus 502 and I have ate like a telescopic antenna and I'm about 25 feet up in the air and I keep Arden longer cables cuz I'm only reason about a mile or maybe not that far sometimes and it's a 15 what radio should be reaching a lot further and every time I order a cable off to Amazon that's like a push spring button type I need like a cable TV Top Antenna wiring any suggestions where I can get that instead of this push on everyone keeps sending me like a push on one and then you got a twist it that's got a little slot any help would appreciate it
Running the AUS version of this, very broad band at works well with me at 100w @ 30 ft www.spiderbeam.com/product_info.php?info=p415_Aerial-51%20Model%20807-HD%20%20R2%20(America).html&XTCsid=96ea5fa1b8b2168de2f4eaed76771138
All the Elmers I’ve talk to said insulated wire is not effected by touching a tree limb. Just make sure the last 10 to 15 feet doesn’t touch the tree as Dave said, that’s where the voltage is. That is based on 100 watt radio. If you use 500 watts or more the tree limbs need to be further away.
Fun Fact: "Kassler" is a german style ham. Seems this man was born to be a Ham. ;) You run a very good channel, Mr. Casler. Thankyou.
I used pullies at endpoints with count-wights and cordage. 4 years now, all still good.
Pulleys too with the pulleys and weights, i figured if the railways use this method to keep tension on the overhead wires it's probably a good idea.
I absolutely agree with you and slimygreen on the concept. I had to laugh at the spell check, though, and I want to know just how many radio wights you have counted? Thanks for the chuckle and 73! de KB3HUC
I also did pulleys and weights. I found a gallon milk jug filled with water works just fine and mine was a GV 5RV at 102 ft. and it kept it taught.
@@davep6977 i used water in containers too.
I’ve got a Buckmaster OCF insulated wire antenna which is very tough as I live where the winds get so high, you wouldn’t believe me if I told you the MPH. I am just now putting it up and rather than hanging the feedpoint directly in a tree, I am putting it on a pulley suspended on a line that stretches between two tree tops. It’s the only way I could figure out how to haul it up and down without catching on the dense pine branches. I will also hang the antenna ends (weighted) from pulleys so the whole affair should have good play when the wind swirls (or it will totally fall apart - time will tell!). Good luck getting the antenna up that high! I bought an arborist throw line and weight - it looks like it will work for the 30’ I have to work with, but it will take some practice! Be careful and good luck!
I have this exact situation just lower and I have made over 3000 contacts in over 70 countries and all 7 contentedness in the past 6 years mostly on ssb and no more than 100 watts.
I know ladderline is sensitive to near objects and should be installed using standoffs.....but hey, I've lived with ladderline laying on the house roof, going up a metal mast etc....and I'm still here and worked lotsa stations over the years, impedance bumps and all. Like John Wayne you to say: A ham has to do what a ham has to do. My biggest obstacle to antennas has been and always will be the XYL .... 73 / k6sdw
Dave, 1. he is asking about an OCF dipole and is thinking that it would offer some kind of extra directivity (he wants to work Europe).
2. He is concerned about the the effects of the trees/foliage on the antenna radiation pattern (hence directivity in his opinion) and the SWR (impedance changes) again due to the limbs of the antenna wires passing through the branches and the leaves.
3. Here I suppose he is thinking of the OCF dipole with fixed impedance at the feed point (like 200-300 ohms that would be interfaced with a 4:1 or 6:1 voltage transformer)
4. Yes, his worries are real.
The RF in the VHF and UHF bands are practically invisible to the foliage.
But the HF spectrum RF energy, being of low frequency (meanig low photon energy) would be absorbed by the dense trees even in the far field of radiation.
You explained that the moisture associated with the sap would be conductive and hence the precious RF would be turned into heat.
5. I do agree with what you said about the open wire feeder. But he is not thinking of using the open wire, I believe.
6. OCF dipole is like any wire dipole fed in the centre; apart from the broadside radiation (like the center fed dipole with a gain of 2.15 dBi) it doesn't promise any specific extra directivity gain towards one direction or the other.
He should keep it in mind.
Thanks for the video, Dave.
De VU2RZA
You did well to discuss a dipole but your discussion didn't detail issues with OCFD installations. You should use a voltage balun to match the OCFD impedance.
Hello Dave - let me first say I'm a watcher / subscriber of your channel and I really appreciate the content you've created and your efforts.
I've got a homebrewed buddipole design antenna made from the public plans published by Budd Drummond W3FF, and have that on my 2nd (top) story apartment porch on a mast (painters' pole) that raises the height to about 14' - which puts the ground leg of the dipole just over the top of the roof. The way I angle it, the driven side is near some tree branches (best I can do under apartment living) and so far the management company isn't commenting either way - I'm sure they are aware of it as it's been up 24x7 for about a month or more.
What I've seen on the VNA is to achieve a decent sloping SWR curve from bottom to top, with the center at about 1.4:1 to 1.6:1 with lower and upper band edges showing about 1.8:1, I have to angle the driven element toward some tree branches. It seems if I get too close the SWR curve changes and the center SWR climbs up. I'm supposing this is normal since the tree branch is either interfering with the radiated signal or is coupling to it?
If that's the case, how can I prevent that? I had a G5RV when I owned property set up as an inverted vee, with the ends secured by dacron rope to a tree on either end, and that seemed to have no effect on my SWR. Why in my current application is the tree messing with my signal? Radio Gremlins maybe? LOL But seriously it's got me curious. First serious foray I've undergone to home brew HF antennas. More rewarding for me to build it myself and get it working than buy something commercial for 4X the price.
TNX & 73! KI6JPE / Dave
Bungee cord on the ends is a great idea, I wouldn't have thought of that until after the first mishap lol.
Trees are a constant source of controversy in amateur radio. Thanks for your discussion. 73 from a happy new subscriber!
I get 11 bands on my end fed half wave. It gets 8 bands in the normal configuration. Then I have an antenna relay to feed the EFHW as a vertical for 160m (which also works OK for 60m and 6m). Less than 2:1 SWR on all bands. See Steve Ellington videos to see how the added relay is installed.
Dave, the guy ask about going through the Trees, Not to the Trees, your picture needs more trees that the wire goes "through"
I put up a horizontal loop in a quad shape about 20 feet in the air above the trees. I found 14AWG insulated wire on Ebay for $28 per 500ft roll shipped and made this 551 feet in total length. This is tunable from 160M to 10M with excellent SWRs. If you google Horizontal Delta loops, you can get multiband options that are relatively inexpensive. KI5DFU
If the wire goes through the leaves, will it attenuate the signal?
Your diagram shows the oax running dow the tree to what I am assuming is the ground, so how do you run that to the house while it is on the ground. Or alteraternatively, you run just a short distance of coax down the trunk leaving enough height to go to the house. Can you explain more about that issue. Good video. Thanks
Get some direct burial coax that can live under ground. You might want some gravel around the coax for drainage and to slow you down if you go digging after forgetting exactly where the line was.
I run my lmr 400db coax down a tree trunk and then into the ground about 100ft long and to the shack
Bury the coax. If you don't to invest in direct burial coax, you can bury it in pvc conduit pipes. Just make sure the joints are waterproof.
Been thinking about a NVIS. On 40 and 20 m. Running them 90ﾟ out of phase with separate coax. Will it make a difference in height or should they both run the same height. what would be your input.
Good advice.
I hang my dipole (doublet) in a plam tree.... No problems at all.
What is a 'plam tree'?
Hey what's up guys this is Ricky from Fort Worth Texas I'm having a problem I have a rectus 502 and I have ate like a telescopic antenna and I'm about 25 feet up in the air and I keep Arden longer cables cuz I'm only reason about a mile or maybe not that far sometimes and it's a 15 what radio should be reaching a lot further and every time I order a cable off to Amazon that's like a push spring button type I need like a cable TV Top Antenna wiring any suggestions where I can get that instead of this push on everyone keeps sending me like a push on one and then you got a twist it that's got a little slot any help would appreciate it
Running the AUS version of this, very broad band at works well with me at 100w @ 30 ft www.spiderbeam.com/product_info.php?info=p415_Aerial-51%20Model%20807-HD%20%20R2%20(America).html&XTCsid=96ea5fa1b8b2168de2f4eaed76771138
Ok Nice de VU2TKC Kolkata INDIA