Did Moses Exist? | Dr. Richard Elliott Friedman
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Discover the real history of the Exodus and why it matters.
Biblical scholars, Egyptologists, archaeologists, historians, literary scholars, anthropologists, and filmmakers are drawn to it. Unable to find physical evidence until now, many archaeologists and scholars claim this mass migration is just a story, not history. Others oppose this conclusion, defending the biblical account.
Like a detective on an intricate case no one has yet solved, pioneering Bible scholar and bestselling author of Who Wrote the Bible? Richard Elliott Friedman cuts through the noise - the serious studies and the wild theories - merging new findings with new insight. From a spectrum of disciplines, state-of-the-art archeological breakthroughs, and fresh discoveries within scripture, he brings real evidence of a historical basis for the exodus - the history behind the story. The biblical account of millions fleeing Egypt may be an exaggeration, but the exodus itself is not a myth.
Friedman does not stop there. Known for his ability to make Bible scholarship accessible to readers, Friedman proceeds to reveal how much is at stake when we explore the historicity of the exodus. The implications, he writes, are monumental. We learn that it became the starting-point of the formation of monotheism, the defining concept of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Moreover, we learn that it precipitated the foundational ethic of loving one’s neighbors - including strangers - as oneself. He concludes, the actual exodus was the cradle of global values of compassion and equal rights today.
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By these standards Hercules and many other mythical characters would exist, because they were written about very frequently too. I have no doubt that Hebrews came and went from Egypt for centuries, sometimes as traders, sometimes as refugees, and sometimes as captives. But there is not even a potshard left in the desert from a supposed one million plus people who lived there for 40 years, despite people looking for evidence of their existence over the last 200 years.
That's a significant point I think.. 40 years, millions of people!!
@@ji8044 Hercules & Moses are not in the same category, albeit both fictional in the way the stories portray them; the invented Hebrew etymology for an Egyptian name suggests a pre-existing core tradition associating as Egyptian named Moses with a priestly clan that would later get associated with Jerusalem's Temple
Great Livestream, Jacob! Appreciate watching your material. I wouldve love to have heard Friedmanns take on the Shapira scroll.
Professor Friedman, if Ezra wrote the Torah, what was it that Moses had read on the sabbath day??
Who supplied Jeremiah with the information that he would have had Baruch written down??
He doesn't think Ezra wrote the Torah. He argues Ezra is a likely candidate for the Redactor, i.e., the editor who combined the sources and smoothed them into a single work
@@benholman6
If sugar and water is combined, one no longer has sugar by it self nor water by it self. The one who put them together is the author/creator of the resultant product.
Since he is claiming that Ezra is the one who put together what he is holding up to be the finish product, does this not make Ezra the author?
Thank you Jacob for all these wonderful talks.
This is absolutely fascinating. 🌲I love the connections Dr Friedman makes with the Levites & the Egyptians 🌲🌲 is there a place where I can find out more about this?
As far as I know, we basically know nothing about Atenism outside the recovered documents about Akenaten's reign: who knows who kept the flame alive, if anyone?
IIRC we know that Akhetaten (Akhenaten's capital where he centralized worship) actually survived at least a century after him, even though it spent all that time in decline. Presumably some die-hard remnants could have held fast in that city, especially given that things went bad for the Eighteenth Dynasty almost immediately after Akhenaten's death. There was no effective central power able to reverse-persecute the Atenites for a while.
Not convinced by the criteria that Friedman is using. And what does the claim "Moses existed" even mean? *In the scriptures Moses works as mythology* . Any ontological questions seem irrelevant after that. Can a biography with any confidence be written? (No.) Are there any remains, not just biological but any physical artefacts from said Moses? (No.) Physical anthropology and genetics have shown the very long evolution of humans and, importantly, the many migrations that we humans take century after century.
I'd highly encourage reading his books. At minimum there are 3 separate, and distinct, Mosaic traditions existing that go back very very far. If it were a single coherent story a myth might seem plausible.
@@garlandjones7709 If the books are locked away behind paywalls I'll likely never read them, unless my local library happens to have them. As for myths: a great many myths exist from ancient times, but the existence of myths do not point to an ontological human. Instead, the existence of myths is a testimony that we humans need them.
@@garlandjones7709 Sorry, but "3 separate Mosaic traditions" very strongly implies myth. A single coherent story might allow for historical existence. It is the same for Jesus: four official and contradictory gospels and dozens of unofficial ones make historicity practically impossible.
@@TheDanEdwards I understand the desire to not have to pay for knowledge. On the flip side with a decade of study under my belt and reading scholarship, it takes a massive amount of time invested to see how to put these pieces together and to just give that away for free would be silly. It takes time to put pen to paper, and then publishing costs on top of that.
With that said, I have tons of books bought secondhand at much more affordable prices for someone like myself. There are always deals to be found.
@@Akio-fy7ep it implies "legend", not myth.
Edit: and that's on the extreme end. Alot of it may not be. There is massive overlap between them. In some cases, there are stark differences, but it's more in what is recounted vs. what is contradictory.
Excellent JAcob !!
Linguists date the various books of the Torah by the words that are used. Egyptologists date the various books by the subjects and customs mentioned in the various books. What happens if a number of customs of a certain time period are mentioned by sections of the Torah in different kinds of Hebrew?
I suppose if your only tool is a hammer every problem is a nail.
There is arguably convincing evidence that the Torah was not originally written in Hebrew. It may have been translated from an ancient Greek dialect
@@djzacmaniac Because the Egyptians spoke Greek in the 13th Century BC?
@@501MobiusThere isn't any complete manuscript of the Torah that dates back further than 1100 or 1200 CE.
@@djzacmaniac The Ketef Hinnom silver scrolls with 7th Century BC Book of Numbers prayer verses on them show that the Book of Numbers preceded a Babylonian conquest. This included reference to Israelites and YHWH as well as Aaron.
@@501MobiusThe oldest manuscripts of the New Testament gospels pre-date the Bologna Torah scroll by something like a millennium...Both could be Greco-Roman era works
Jesus Jacob! Why in the world aren’t you taking a couple of minutes to do sound checks and when they’re dreadful like your guest in this video, organising for a better microphone… lapel Mike or something?
Sorry mate, but the lack of quality has made this video unviewable
No
Not one of your better interviews or interviewee, I'm afraid.
Just because many theories are outdated does not decrease his status as a great scholar!!
Amalgamation of many events, the hyksos rule plus plus
Has the concept of God in reality ever been anything more than a figment of the human imagination, always was and always will be beyond mere human comprehension.
Referring to the Bible authors as historians is a joke.
Ignorance is also a joke. Parts of the bible are written as history. Chronicles and the books of kings are certainly history. Read up!
Did moses exist? It's an easy answer: no.
Just fairytales that shapes our existence. That's the way this world works. 🫡
Moses was warned by God to avoid Philistines who did not arrive on the coast of Caanan till approximately 1150 BC. The prior 300 years Egypt ruled Caanan and had military outposts there. The OT has no knowledge of Egyptian rule over Caanan
Thanks doc freidman loved your books need more from you
Nobody actually existed in the ancient world.
I wouldn't say that, but rather that the stories never happened...we have to consider the fact that they could have added real characters to the stories🥲
" the actual exodus was the cradle of global values of compassion and equal rights today." (from the description) - except for the parts of all the scriptures based on the alleged exodus that condone, or even ordain, things like slavery, cruelty, wars, etc.
A baby in a cradle hopefully metamorphises into an emotionally intelligent adult
@@BarackObamaJediPeople use religion to justify their morals, they don't derive their morals from religion.
I have often thought the least talked about but most evil aspect of Exodus is that immediately after giving Moses the commandment which says "you shall not murder", Yahweh tells Moses to have the Levites murder 5,000 of their family and friends.
On the DNA stuff: Friedman is referring to studies of the human Y chromosome. Passed from father to son, one can study migrations (for example) by making a tree of Y-inheritance. Mutations happen all the time, and get passed down. *Yet the Y studies on Jewish groups do not lead to the same conclusions as believers in the OT want* . Dating the Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA) for any two Y (hence to different men) is only an approximation. Studies on self-identified Jewish males do not have a single MRCA within historical times.
That’s not how science works. Science always deals with error bars so it is not that you can just call it an approximation. But yes genetic studies don’t lead to young earth creationism.
He seems to represent an old version of the documentary hypothesis school, which is a bit outdated now. I wish the podcast managed to interrogate on the Elephantine papyri and such.
which suggest a minimalist take on JEDP hypothesis and biblical archaeology
This historian is very frustrating. When he says he has no idea what century Moses was born, yet he says that it is more likely than not that he was real. It would be better to say from a historical perspective we don’t know but say from a personal perspective he does.
"I feel more comfortable with the Israelite historians". I wish he would have clarified who they are rather keep it a secret. I am pretty sure many historians and archaeologists would be grateful if he shared this information.
I really appreciate how cautiously this guy is saying everything. He's not making anything definitive. He's saying statistical likelihoods and that is so much better and honest than so many scholars who will at least appear to make a definitive claim. ❤
I've read "Who Wrote the Bible", after I read Israel Finkelstein's "The Bible Unearthed." Those are, of course, good for the Archaeology and Linguistics of the Old Testament(mostly the Torah). For the Mythology, I go with Acharya S's "Did Moses Exist?"
I've also found and watched a couple good youtube documentaries - The Shmunis family foundation - Conversations in the Archaeology and History of Ancient Israel with Israel Finkelstein" on a Kedem youtube page.
and the other one I'm thinking of was "Shmunis Bible & Archaeology: Finkelstein - Römer"
I guess these are more Israel Finkelstein than Richard Friedman. But, their work supports one another.
From the start of the first question...I sensed biased. But I'm going to keep watching and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe you're the one that's just biased & allergic to anything that sounds vaguely conservative - red flag for your intellectual capability of critical thinking - I don't think there was a Moses; but clearly, many founding priestly clans & castes had multiple founders from Egypt (the major political power of the period) & had strong ties to Egyptian culture. These priestly clans would be united by fictitious geneologies into being descendants of Levi/Aaron/Moses/Hur
Does Moses by NAME, appeared in The Dead Sea Scroll
Yes. Because by the time the dead sea scrolls were written, the bible is already in its form we're all familiar with.
As soon as he said Moses existed I left as it's obvious he didn't. Well, that was after writing this that I left.
Says more about your prejudice against anything conservative-sounding than his intellectual abilities! I don't think there was ever a historical Moses that resembled anything in the Bible. But the fact that a Hebrew legendary etymology was ignorantly created for an Egyptian names points strongly in the direction of the pre-history of a priestly clan that tied itself to the name of an actual Egyptian (whether historical or not) with a name for which most of the consonants consisted of "Mose". He is simply wrong in insisting that legends must certainly have grown around a historical person (even it is perhaps as equally probable as it isn't; the person might have even been an actual Pharoah who played the role of benefactor or nominal patron, whether personally/historically or legendarily as a form of memory/name veneration, of some cult within Palestine)
Yep, it's clear Moses is pure fiction
On the conquest of Canaan, the issue is the mainstream dating positions. For those who hold the position of an earlier new Egyptian chronology with an exodus date around 1446bce, everything aligns. You should have on David Rohl and other proponents of the new Egyptian chronology and those who challenge the idea of a bronze dark age collapse.
Is Rohl conservative? His name sounds familiar. And educate me about this theory of rejecting a Bronze Age collapse
@@tsemayekekema2918 He is not a christian
The two oldest portions of the bible relate back to exodus and mt. Sinai. Deborah's song and miriam's song.
He talks about this in video…not the Exodus
@@codeincomplete miriam's song is arguably the exodus
The questions we want answered, and answered with authority, humanity, and without agenda.
If podcasts got Oscars... .
Thank you, יעקב.
There is no evidence of literary Hebrew before the 8th century BC. If you believe Moses is of the 14th century bc then any ability to write about him was 600 yrs after Moses time.
NO.
All these titles, yet, all this drama, he cannot answer yes or no as to whether or not Moses existed.
As it relates to the bible, these scholars constantly represent themselves as being clowns: each of them merely putting on their own themed show.
● Friedman is confident that it took five (5) persons to write the last chapter of Deuteronomy: how does he explain these verses in Isaiah (44) which relate to how the biblical information came about??
Isaiah 44:6-9
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not prophet; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
And:
Isaiah 44:21-28
Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.
[22] I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
[23] Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. [24] Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
[25] That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;
[26] That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:
[27] That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers:
[28] That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.
Moses never existed that’s finished. The story is plagiarized from the epic of Saigon
Saigon is called Ho Chi Minh City now.
Sargon, not Saigon, Charles L. Davis😊😊
@@Sauveguy A E I O U and sometimes Y. 😂
He seems like a half-baked scholar!!!
Are you serious? Friedman is top tier. The man was trained by the best in the world and has sparred with the best in the world. Sure, among critical historians his views are on the more conservative side. He's educated an entire generation on the conclusive evidence for the documentary hypothesis (should be called documentary theory now). We're all in this man's debt.
He is brilliant. His college lectures are on line. I encourage you to watch. He is better than all others. ❤❤❤