Huge thank you to all of you that have engaged with this video and especially to those of you who know how antennas, measurement and tuning works for recognising that this video is the first in a series, designed for the pilot who is new for the topic and not trying to cover everything in one 20 min video. It's easy to pick holes in content that's designed for the beginner when you've done a subject for 20 years, but to do so is forgetting that you didn't acquire that knowledge in half an hour and and the audience it's intended for, thank you to all of you who 'get it'. Thank you for the excellent ideas and feedback fro future videos in this series. Happy flying!
I think the one part that would be helpful as an addition to why this matters is explaining with a VSWR lookup table showing why 2.0 and 5.0 are useful benchmarks for reflected power - 2.0 being close to 10% reflected power means the output is within the variance of VTX hardware, and even the fairly rubbish 5.0 results in 'only' a -3dB loss (quite similar to a poorly selected coax/connector chain), which for racing is just bad, but for long range or freestyle flying means that a nominally 800mW transmitter is actually barely achieving 250mW of realistic output on a poor combination of channel/cable/connectors/antenna
Apart from checking performance of each antennna, it may be good to compare how consistent 2 same antenna from the same model perform. If we find that they are the same, then we have better confidence that your results is applicable to our own of that model. Then we will be able to say, use the aomway at the high band ...
Man, I wish I had three things. 1. A buddy that was an expert at antennas. 2. A buddy that would tweak, tune and make anteenas for me! 3. That BA set of premium antennas! Just got into the hobby and I always make an informed purchase. This info will definitely point me in the right direction. THESE ARE THE VIDEOS I LOVE! Bty... I live in the states and will pay for shipping on those bad boys!
Excellent insight into some of the finer details of 5.8Ghz antennas. Far better than others that I've watched, where they demonstrate a maximum amount of power transmitted for each antenna, then declare the winner based solely on the maximum power transmitted, rather than showing how much of a usable spread within the range exists for each one.
I have a pair of Octavia microphones, each came with a print-out of the performance graph. If premium antennas are each tested at the manufacturing stage, perhaps a print out might be nice.
I would totally agree with that being a way for manufacturers to show why paying more means getting more (as opposed to buying a black box of unknowns with questionable Q/A from China.... although the peach rate on some of those is high enough that I can be content)
Very illuminating to see how a few of the many, many antennas look on the analyzer, and a very nice explanation of the complex topic. Congratulations on the great job on this followup. You've hit it out of the park. I do want to note that the one antenna with the very broad, relatively flat response across the spectrum is a bit troubling. A dummy load also has very low VSWR all the way down to DC, but makes for a lousy antenna at every frequency. I had hoped your host might comment. VSWR is but one figure of merit and in some cases possibly misleading. Thanks again for a great job.
what a fascinating exercise to educate fpv ers about antenna design and relative performance of various brands ,i am a long time 50+years aeromodellor who has been trying to go FPV and this kind of information is invaluable to non technical enthusiasts
This video was very helpful. We were just talking about how to figure out what a antenna is tuned for in my shop last week. This now gives us a idea on how to figure it out. Also wanted to say I have been useing Menance FPV antennas since 2016. They have been great and the only ones I use on my goggles and quads!! The ones I bought at the drone show in 2016 are still working great for me today!!
This was amazing. I cannot describe how pleased I am to see quantitative measurements on this. Incredibly fascinating and really lends a great explanation for why some antennas are just way better than others.
So I'm new to fpv and trying to wrap my head around getting the best, most reliable upgrades to my fixed wing system. This information was spot on helping me understand the basics of choosing a good antenna for my setup. Thanks guys and keep up the great work!!
Very eye opening for me a great little insight into the tuning given on these antennas great to see the new thrasher now in the wild 😜 that will be one for the shopping list Thankyou Greg and Lee for the generous competition will we see more at all about the perfect orientation for these pagodas let’s say on a wing quad etc Many thanks today I learnt something 😀👍👍👍
Fantastic video, I had mentioned in a previous post that I didn't trust most of the ads for antennae and this kind of supports my distrust, although as you pointed out this is only one antenna per vendor so the numbers could change if one were to test say 50 antennae per vendor. Hopefully, this will encourage manufacturers to spend a little more time in the design/tuning of what they sell such as the folks at Menace and Fatshark have done. I would like to see as part of every antenna ad, an average trace so we can make an informed decision on what we are buying instead of relying on someone's perceived view of how the antenna is performing. Or possibly include a trace printout with each antenna purchased. Really looking forward to more, Thanks so much
Quite informative, I really like watching this type of video where I learn something without feeling like most of the terminology has went over my head...
Thanks for all the info, I now have a better understanding on frequencies and tuning. Remains the fact that for us, "normal people" it'a pain without proper instruments, will always be a try and fail scenario (until we see your videos). Thanks for shortening our pain, though :D
Interesting summary Lee. In a perfect world in addition to providing a VSWR plot it would be good if manufacturers also included a chart showing the 3D radiation pattern. Many thanks for your good work.
Absolutely great video! Seeing the SWR profiles of different FPV antennas gives an interesting insight to how different antennas perform at different frequencies. It would be cool to see some DIY FPV antennas put through the same tests to see how they compare.
This is really knowledgeable. Please include patch antennas in your future videos. I tried using a patch antenna on the vtx end, and got greatly improved video feed indoors.
Thanks a lot for this nice video and for a chance to see the person responsible behind all antenna I use on my quad. Big shout out to Greg: Thank you for making Raptor and Stubby. Since I have switched to stubby, I had a lot fewer instances where antennas on my quads would become victims to my poor flying. And I took that stubby to 2.3km on a 5" quad :) Great yob and keep it up. @Painless360 I can't thank you enough for making these videos, they have helped me a lot and still will in the future.
Thanks Lee, another well presented and informative video. I've only just started my journey into FPV and all this information is helping shape my choices. If only all RUclipsrs could be as well presented.
interesting. in april '18 Tony was at a DRL test race in Friedrichshafen, I was invited, too. we put several antennas on his "box", with similiar and different result. the fatshark antennas and the aomway performed there quite as good, the pagodas were therfore quite disappointing. good work, i always enjoy your very technical videos.
I think I need this kind of antenna pack as I can never seem to get more than 300 meters flying distance before my video starts to be un-flyable. Thanks to both of you.
Please make sure you're subscribed and have the bell notification I can take as this giveaway has already happened and there may be more in the future.
I love Menace stuff, I have the FiziX Race Frame from them and its fantastic. I have never had a problem with any of there kit as it works out of the box, just the best.
Like mentioned in a previous comment a print out of the antennas tune across the band would be nice to have from manufacture as proof of conformance and quality. I have some of Greg's antennas and am very happy with their quality and performance. A lot of viewers perhaps don't realise either that adding extensions and adaptors inline can degrade the impedance and vswr of the antenna tune. Perhaps that could be a follow up to this video. Cheers.
Analyzer pron! That Measall analyzer is a gorgeous bit of kit =P Brilliant comparison. I wasn't too surprised the pagoda style antenna was tuned so tightly considering it's the only one with a proper balun but I was surprised the older Fat Shark unit was so linear. It's obviously too much to ask but I really wish retailers would include graphs like these in their antenna adverts
Thanks for intresting measurements. Might be good to note that the VSWR figure is important for a Tx antenna, but for a Rx antenna other figures might be more important, such as cross polarisation behavour.
I found this video will be extremely informative. I also found it to be very interesting. Looking forward to a lot more of these videos. Thanks 360 great job!
Funny, I bought the early Fatshark Immersion from Hobby King but hardly ever used them until recently. Got the bare wire cloverleafs still Lee, can't throw them away. Was trying to get a jig made to help solder up a pair of Quadrifilar but its never materialized. Nice gear has your friend!
Interesting video. Years ago I used to design CATV filters and I sure miss having an IFR computerized Spectrum Analyzer on my bench(with built in synced sweep generator). It's the sort of luxury you don't appreciate until you need it. I'd love to find an old Wavetek sweep setup for cheap (used to build log-amp from a chip for them), but so would a lot of other people, so the cheap part is tough. I'd sure like an hour on one to run thru my antenna collection and see what really is properly tuned and which ones are not. I have the linear Menace patch and it's my go-to for Whoops and the smaller RTFs that haven't been converted to CP. It's surprisingly good in most conditions and flying sites. The RCP version has been on my "Want" list for some time now.
Great video. I'm looking forward to seeing more in this series as I like the technical stuff. Shame there weren't any VAS antennas tested, like the MinION, but its interesting to see the varying results.
As usual always, good technical stuff on P360. Whilst very interesting, VSWR is by no means a good indicator of overall antenna performance :-) It could be worth mentioning that this is only one factor in antenna design, and there are other factors that affect performance. For instance a dummy load will absorb all the power you throw at it and give you a completely flat response across the band with a 1:1 SWR (similar to a couple of those tested :-( ) , yet not radiate any RF at all :-O looking forward to further episodes.
You should have put a link in the description pointing to a sponsored product for a Network Analyser! I'm guessing lots of people are now looking to buy one after having seen this video. :)
Fully enjoyed watching that and it has given me a good insight in to how they differ and a better understanding. Keep up the good work I'm looking forward to the next video.
Huge thank you to all of you that have engaged with this video and especially to those of you who know how antennas, measurement and tuning works for recognising that this video is the first in a series, designed for the pilot who is new for the topic and not trying to cover everything in one 20 min video.
It's easy to pick holes in content that's designed for the beginner when you've done a subject for 20 years, but to do so is forgetting that you didn't acquire that knowledge in half an hour and and the audience it's intended for, thank you to all of you who 'get it'.
Thank you for the excellent ideas and feedback fro future videos in this series. Happy flying!
I think the one part that would be helpful as an addition to why this matters is explaining with a VSWR lookup table showing why 2.0 and 5.0 are useful benchmarks for reflected power - 2.0 being close to 10% reflected power means the output is within the variance of VTX hardware, and even the fairly rubbish 5.0 results in 'only' a -3dB loss (quite similar to a poorly selected coax/connector chain), which for racing is just bad, but for long range or freestyle flying means that a nominally 800mW transmitter is actually barely achieving 250mW of realistic output on a poor combination of channel/cable/connectors/antenna
@@tehllama42 please check the description, that link is already there.
Apart from checking performance of each antennna, it may be good to compare how consistent 2 same antenna from the same model perform. If we find that they are the same, then we have better confidence that your results is applicable to our own of that model. Then we will be able to say, use the aomway at the high band ...
or at least 3 same antenna model.
Man, I wish I had three things. 1. A buddy that was an expert at antennas. 2. A buddy that would tweak, tune and make anteenas for me! 3. That BA set of premium antennas! Just got into the hobby and I always make an informed purchase. This info will definitely point me in the right direction. THESE ARE THE VIDEOS I LOVE! Bty... I live in the states and will pay for shipping on those bad boys!
I love it that Menace is willing to test their own antennae's live, shows the confidence of the manufacturers.
Excellent insight into some of the finer details of 5.8Ghz antennas. Far better than others that I've watched, where they demonstrate a maximum amount of power transmitted for each antenna, then declare the winner based solely on the maximum power transmitted, rather than showing how much of a usable spread within the range exists for each one.
So glad that someone is finally attempting to de-mistify the subject of antennas. Thanks Lee.
Possibly the most useful FPV information video ever. Thank you.
I have a pair of Octavia microphones, each came with a print-out of the performance graph. If premium antennas are each tested at the manufacturing stage, perhaps a print out might be nice.
I would totally agree with that being a way for manufacturers to show why paying more means getting more (as opposed to buying a black box of unknowns with questionable Q/A from China.... although the peach rate on some of those is high enough that I can be content)
I have been using MenceRC for over a year now and super impressed with the performance.
Very illuminating to see how a few of the many, many antennas look on the analyzer, and a very nice explanation of the complex topic. Congratulations on the great job on this followup. You've hit it out of the park.
I do want to note that the one antenna with the very broad, relatively flat response across the spectrum is a bit troubling. A dummy load also has very low VSWR all the way down to DC, but makes for a lousy antenna at every frequency. I had hoped your host might comment. VSWR is but one figure of merit and in some cases possibly misleading.
Thanks again for a great job.
what a fascinating exercise to educate fpv ers about antenna design and relative performance of various brands ,i am a long time 50+years aeromodellor who has been trying to go FPV and this kind of information is invaluable to non technical enthusiasts
You make fpv Painless even when i turn around in a circle. Just getting into this hobby and really like you videos. Thanks.
Very informative video. Nice to see how old a new antennas compare to each other from tuning perspective
Very interesting would like to see an average of 3 antennas from the same manufacturer
This video was very helpful. We were just talking about how to figure out what a antenna is tuned for in my shop last week. This now gives us a idea on how to figure it out. Also wanted to say I have been useing Menance FPV antennas since 2016. They have been great and the only ones I use on my goggles and quads!! The ones I bought at the drone show in 2016 are still working great for me today!!
Good video Lee. Clear explanation of antenna concepts without over simplifying.
Being a bit of a Nerd and having always been interested in Electronics I found this video extremely interesting, great video!
Excellent video. Measuring VSWR is not easy and you need expensive equipment to do it so to see it presented in this way is awesome!
This was amazing. I cannot describe how pleased I am to see quantitative measurements on this. Incredibly fascinating and really lends a great explanation for why some antennas are just way better than others.
Like these technically informative sessions where a Subject Matter Expert talks about a key component of our FPV flying experience. Great work, Lee.
That was informative and didn't even realize the video was 20 minutes 👍
Thank you for all your work you do to help us newer FPV pilots.
So I'm new to fpv and trying to wrap my head around getting the best, most reliable upgrades to my fixed wing system. This information was spot on helping me understand the basics of choosing a good antenna for my setup. Thanks guys and keep up the great work!!
A very interesting video. Many thanks to Greg for making it something we can all clearly understand.
I know everybody is going to want an antenna analyzer now! Great information keep it up. Thanks
Enjoying the more diverse videos you are creating recently, good job.
One of the best antenna videos I have seen. Great job
Liked. I'm lucky enough to own a vswr meter as a radio ham so personally test all my antennas.
Wish that test equipment wasn't so expensive. It sure would make finding your strongest frequency easier. Great video can't wait for the next one. ✌🏻
It would be interesting to see this on patches as well. This is more informative than most manufacturer specs.
Very eye opening for me a great little insight into the tuning given on these antennas great to see the new thrasher now in the wild 😜 that will be one for the shopping list Thankyou Greg and Lee for the generous competition will we see more at all about the perfect orientation for these pagodas let’s say on a wing quad etc
Many thanks today I learnt something 😀👍👍👍
Great video, would really like to see another video testing the consistency of each brand, but i can imagine how difficult that would be.
Lee,
This will be a good series. Again you are giving me practical knowledge. Yes, I would like a set of these quality antennas.
Jim
Another great video Lee. Greg and yourself have given us a great insight into the variances in FPV TX and RX antennas. Very useful
Great video Lee! It's nice to see our consumer gear tested on professional equipment.
A great view into antennas. Good to see you not just testing the menace ones as well.
This is a great video, 2 very clever experienced guys in this industry working together to help us out, cant ask for more , thanks guys.
Very nice comparison. I hadn't really thought about antennas working differently on slightly different frequencies.
Fantastic video, I had mentioned in a previous post that I didn't trust most of the ads for antennae and this kind of supports my distrust, although as you pointed out this is only one antenna per vendor so the numbers could change if one were to test say 50 antennae per vendor. Hopefully, this will encourage manufacturers to spend a little more time in the design/tuning of what they sell such as the folks at Menace and Fatshark have done. I would like to see as part of every antenna ad, an average trace so we can make an informed decision on what we are buying instead of relying on someone's perceived view of how the antenna is performing. Or possibly include a trace printout with each antenna purchased.
Really looking forward to more, Thanks so much
Getting smarter by the minute, Lee. Appreciate the info.
Quite informative, I really like watching this type of video where I learn something without feeling like most of the terminology has went over my head...
Great video, interesting how different the performances are from all the different antennas!
I have been looking for more information on antennas and this is right up the alley I’ve been looking for...thanks!!!
A buddy of mine has a Menace RC patch on his goggles, and I've been meaning to buy the pack to try them out for myself! Very informative video!
Excellent work guys. Really enjoy this kind of stuff and hope you can include a look at the effect bent elements have on the VSWR readings.
This has to be one of your best videos. Can’t wait for the rest of the series!
I'm still new to FPV... you have a brilliant channel, thank you!
Great insight in how these antennas perform
A really interesting video and surprising to see such differences across the range of antennas tested.
Interesting video, looking forward for the next.
Thanks Greg and Painless360
Excellent video, I'd also love to see more than one example tested of each type and maybe the effect of slight bending of the elements. Thanks Lee.
I'm not too sure if I fully understand what's going on there but getting the gist of how different antennae perform. Great stuff
I wish there was somewhere I could send antennas and have someone measure them and recommend what frequencies to use for each.
Yes same here.
I like the info on how the antenna are tuned, thank you and keep up the good work
Extremely useful - now I understand more about antennas! I like this explanation videos...
Thanks for all the info, I now have a better understanding on frequencies and tuning. Remains the fact that for us, "normal people" it'a pain without proper instruments, will always be a try and fail scenario (until we see your videos). Thanks for shortening our pain, though :D
Interesting summary Lee.
In a perfect world in addition to providing a VSWR plot it would be good if manufacturers also included a chart showing the 3D radiation pattern.
Many thanks for your good work.
Absolutely great video! Seeing the SWR profiles of different FPV antennas gives an interesting insight to how different antennas perform at different frequencies. It would be cool to see some DIY FPV antennas put through the same tests to see how they compare.
This is really knowledgeable. Please include patch antennas in your future videos. I tried using a patch antenna on the vtx end, and got greatly improved video feed indoors.
Great to see some real info and not someone's opinion. Good job!
Thanks for the in-depth look at 5.8 antennas!
Thanks a lot for this nice video and for a chance to see the person responsible behind all antenna I use on my quad.
Big shout out to Greg: Thank you for making Raptor and Stubby. Since I have switched to stubby, I had a lot fewer instances where antennas on my quads would become victims to my poor flying.
And I took that stubby to 2.3km on a 5" quad :) Great yob and keep it up.
@Painless360 I can't thank you enough for making these videos, they have helped me a lot and still will in the future.
Thanx for the info from a newer FPV flyer. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Lee, another well presented and informative video. I've only just started my journey into FPV and all this information is helping shape my choices. If only all RUclipsrs could be as well presented.
Very interesting to see how this was measured!
Excellent video, such a critical part for reliable FPV
interesting. in april '18 Tony was at a DRL test race in Friedrichshafen, I was invited, too. we put several antennas on his "box", with similiar and different result. the fatshark antennas and the aomway performed there quite as good, the pagodas were therfore quite disappointing.
good work, i always enjoy your very technical videos.
Definitely in for this giveaway. One of the best antennas out there hands down
Great video. Made understanding how antenna quality and tune is measured...well...painless. Keep it up!
Thank you very much for the insight on the performance of each antenna! Looking forward to the next videos!
Interesting video . I just got some mennace antennas and now looking forward to seeing how they perform.
I think I need this kind of antenna pack as I can never seem to get more than 300 meters flying distance before my video starts to be un-flyable.
Thanks to both of you.
Please make sure you're subscribed and have the bell notification I can take as this giveaway has already happened and there may be more in the future.
I wish I had one of these meters so I can always fly on the channel my antenna is tuned for. Thanks so much for your videos. Very informative.
Surprising results. Thanks for the analysis.
Really interesting how materials surrounding the antenna can change the performance.
Thanks guys, that was very informative. Can’t wait to see more antenna testing. That antenna combo pack is a super deal.
Huzzah.. I'm in, it is surprising how the application of the antennas in the quad environment can make a difference to the tuning as well!
Great! Can't wait to see the rest of the series
I love Menace stuff, I have the FiziX Race Frame from them and its fantastic. I have never had a problem with any of there kit as it works out of the box, just the best.
Very interesting Lee,i actually learnt something.makes me now want to get all my antennas checked now to see whats the usable range now.....
Like mentioned in a previous comment a print out of the antennas tune across the band would be nice to have from manufacture as proof of conformance and quality. I have some of Greg's antennas and am very happy with their quality and performance. A lot of viewers perhaps don't realise either that adding extensions and adaptors inline can degrade the impedance and vswr of the antenna tune. Perhaps that could be a follow up to this video. Cheers.
Wow. I never knew antennas were this sophisticated. Makes sense now though, after seeing this video.
Another great video, I have learned a bit more about how antennas work. Thanks for making it.
Analyzer pron! That Measall analyzer is a gorgeous bit of kit =P Brilliant comparison. I wasn't too surprised the pagoda style antenna was tuned so tightly considering it's the only one with a proper balun but I was surprised the older Fat Shark unit was so linear. It's obviously too much to ask but I really wish retailers would include graphs like these in their antenna adverts
Thanks for intresting measurements. Might be good to note that the VSWR figure is important for a Tx antenna, but for a Rx antenna other figures might be more important, such as cross polarisation behavour.
I found this video will be extremely informative. I also found it to be very interesting. Looking forward to a lot more of these videos. Thanks 360 great job!
Funny, I bought the early Fatshark Immersion from Hobby King but hardly ever used them until recently.
Got the bare wire cloverleafs still Lee, can't throw them away.
Was trying to get a jig made to help solder up a pair of Quadrifilar but its never materialized.
Nice gear has your friend!
Very interesting, looking forward to the rest of the videos
Have yet to try a menace! This is a very awesome video! Thanks a lot for this Lee! Saturday morning wheaties right here!
Interesting video. Years ago I used to design CATV filters and I sure miss having an IFR computerized Spectrum Analyzer on my bench(with built in synced sweep generator). It's the sort of luxury you don't appreciate until you need it. I'd love to find an old Wavetek sweep setup for cheap (used to build log-amp from a chip for them), but so would a lot of other people, so the cheap part is tough.
I'd sure like an hour on one to run thru my antenna collection and see what really is properly tuned and which ones are not. I have the linear Menace patch and it's my go-to for Whoops and the smaller RTFs that haven't been converted to CP. It's surprisingly good in most conditions and flying sites. The RCP version has been on my "Want" list for some time now.
Great video, just the sort of stuff we need more of.
Great video. I'm looking forward to seeing more in this series as I like the technical stuff. Shame there weren't any VAS antennas tested, like the MinION, but its interesting to see the varying results.
As usual always, good technical stuff on P360.
Whilst very interesting, VSWR is by no means a good indicator of overall antenna performance :-)
It could be worth mentioning that this is only one factor in antenna design, and there are other factors that affect performance.
For instance a dummy load will absorb all the power you throw at it and give you a completely flat response across the band with a 1:1 SWR (similar to a couple of those tested :-( ) , yet not radiate any RF at all :-O
looking forward to further episodes.
I love this geekery. I also love my Pico Patch. Thank you guys.
Great video can't wait for the thrasher to come out look forward to the rest of the series
Very very informative video. Thanks for this! Would be interesting to see how to best match this with the receiving antenna
Good video. Please keep the information flowing.
You should have put a link in the description pointing to a sponsored product for a Network Analyser!
I'm guessing lots of people are now looking to buy one after having seen this video. :)
Fully enjoyed watching that and it has given me a good insight in to how they differ and a better understanding. Keep up the good work I'm looking forward to the next video.
Very interesting. Cheers. Would have been interesting seeing the waveforms of a few different pagoda antennas.