I Got Robbed & You Probably Will Too
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- It is no fun to find out you have been betting ripped off, especially when it has been for years. I learned some valuable lessons on Toyota Alignments & spending a little more time researching who I trust with my vehicles. If you are an Overlander or off-roader you will need to do a lot of maintenance to your vehicle... in this video we discuss ways to do this and take care of yourself.
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Subscribe if you noticed I had to film this whole thing with an embarrassingly large pimple on my nose.
I didn't even notice😅
But I'm subscribed
Already subscribed but yeah MOLE ha ha ha ha ha
I still think you’re handsome 🤩
I'm already subscribed... you're going to have to hire a make up artist LOL
You can mention the name of the shops that did you right, even if you don't want to say who did you wrong.
As a mechanic who’s worked in National chain stores and even dealerships I can attest that there is a “get it in and get it out…” mentality. Often times was told to “Toe-N-Go”. I can also tell you the attention To employee retention is just not there. I found when I worked for “Mom & Pop” shops there was more effort put in getting it done right the first time and being honest with customers. The industry is different from commercialized to independent. I’ve Since opened my own business that caters to the off-road industry and am active in my overland group. We aim to be a one stop shop that specializes in everything from maintenance, heavy repairs, aftermarket modifications and more. We Mark every one of our camber/caster plates with a reference mark, and write the torque spec on the Subframe. We don’t have an alignment rack just yet and have a near by Shop sublet them. After the alignment is completed we recheck the bolt torque as well as take note to see if any camber/caster plates have been rotated. Like Ronald Reagan used to say “Trust, But Verify..”
Trust but Verify... I like that. Great advice and good luck with your shop.
I appreciate this post. Especially the trust but verify statement. I have worked as a mechanic and I'm more than capable of doing "most" of my own repairs... I just don't have the time for some things, and less motivation to do it myself when it's a chore. Example 1: The fuel pump failed on my 2010 Silverado. I have changed plenty and know the drill (loosen bed bolts, tip bed to one side, swap pump, etc..) but didn't have the time. Part was $300 after tax at the local parts store, and my local mechanic quoted $475 complete, including the part. That's $175 I was happy to spend to not have to deal with it, and it's a job that's hard to screw up, and immediately obvious if not done right. They did a great job. Example B: Oil pressure on same truck fell to zero one morning. I suspected either the oil pump or oil sending unit (but was quite sure it was the OSU because your gauge will never go to zero with an oil pump... it will just show very low oil pressure, generally). Called same shop and asked what they would charge to change the oil pump, wanting to see how they answered the question. The very honest man said, "Please let us check it to make sure if it's the OSU and not the oil pump. The difference in price is close to $1000, and we wouldn't want you to pay more than needed". That right there is why I let them continue to work on my cars when I don't want to.
This is an interesting comment. I’ve had great experience with Firestone. I started going to Firestone because two guys I grew up with worked there for years and they told me about the seriousness that upper management takes customer complaints. Obviously, you have a personal incentive to knock national chains but I would be interested to know if Firestone (who I suspect might be involved in this video) was one of the bad ones in your experience. Thx
@@1rstTry nope… never worked with Firestone.
@@OutdoorAuto that’s a bit of a relief. Sorry to hear about your experiences, man. Major bummer
A good alignment tech is worth their weight in gold. I get laughed at on FB for paying $180 for an alignment but he touches every bolt, and then tells me what's going on where. I cringe every time someone says they just get the lifetime alignment from the chain shops because of stuff like this video. Now that you have an good shop with an honest tech, hold them close and treat them well! I always tip my alignment tech because he's so thorough.
You better believe I gave them a massive tip… they told me they don’t take tips and I said if they don’t take it I’d leave it in the parking lot.
Just wanted to say not all of us that did the "lifetime" alignments didn't do their jobs correctly. I will add that almost every major shop uses Hunter Alignment machines. ALWAYS ask for a before and after print out. Even still you as a customer don't have to know much. Just look for shiny metal near the corners of adjustments. If they are still dirty - they weren't touched. Maybe for good reason maybe not.
I now am a truck driver though. Between busting my knuckles on rigged up trailer queens and an overwhelming customer base that is about as appreciative as cougar that pet a porcupine I had enough.
You are right though most new techs do not know what the WHY is to what adjustments they are making. They just see green is good. Most don't even know the angles as the alignment machine software has diagrams and videos that will show them what to adjust.
@@OutdoorAuto tips don't have to be monetary, bring the shop doughnuts, or coffee from a local coffee shop, or a meat and cheese platter, it is a simple cheap non monetary way to get the best service or to show your appreciation for good quality work.
there's a shop in denver that's famous for quality alignments and they do lifted razors , rat rods, lifted trucks, slammed stance cars, i take my car there with all adjustable control arms slammed on fortune auto coilovers and they charge by "as long as it takes" to get the numbers on the money, cost me $300 2 hours and everything is on the money to the 2nd decimal digit
As a mechanic and shop owner, the large national chain stores need to be thought of as the "fast food" of automotive repair. They typically don't pay their technicians well and have a revolving door mentality on technician retention.
As far as the specific issue you have with your truck. Being someone that appears to DIY a lot of thier own repairs, you not noticing that isn't the end of the world, you have found the correct repair already. But as a whole the biggest thing that can be done is having your vehicle inspected by a reputable shop at minimum. And preferably a shop that is highly detail oriented and specializes in the type of vehilce you drive. An added bonus is if the shop specializes in the type of modifications you have installed as well.
Great video and I'm looking forward to seeing more about this issue as a whole. Thank you.
Great advice, and thanks for weighing in as a shop owner... I definitely don't want to throw all techs under the bus... when I do find a good shop... they are worth every penny.
Taco Tabs and alignment block reinforcement. And get some limit straps on those lower arms. Your stressing your CV axles in full droop You have the tabs for them. Diff drop spacers as well. Bring it to me I can fix that issue for you. Its best to get all the parts together. There really isnt a all in one kit. You need to have someone who knows their way around a 4x4. You enter into a different realm of car care when you go that full customs suspension. It has to be aligned with a racecar/ buggy type alignment setup. Sometimes caster and camber wont be achieved 100% dead on due to ne angles introduced. Its a huge learning curve from the straight axle days.
Incompetence is the true pandemic.
I've had so many similar experiences that I now do 95% of my own maintenance, just so I can have the peace of mind knowing it's been done right.
Alignments were not on that list, because I don't have the equipment to do it... but now I'm going to have figure this out too or I'll have alignment anxiety thanks this new information. Wonderful.
Oh no… sorry to create more work for you… but… yeah… it was bad 😳
Look at who people in the local rally/racing community use if you’re in a more populated area. When you have shop techs and owners who deal with motorsports regulators, you can be reasonably assured that they have a proper eye for detail and care.
This is a very good recommendation...
How true! Almost all of my suspension wisdom came from track and ice racing. Nothing beats daily suspension adjustments.
One of the first things I do on a Toyota I plan to offroad is install a Cam Tab Gusset kit from Total Chaos, or Marlin Crawler to avoid this kind of thing.
Also be sure to put anti-seize on the cam bolts or they'll practically weld themselves in place.
The marlin kit is very reasonable and looks great
This exactly. It's been an issue on IFS toyotas since IFS toyota trucks first came out. My '01 would shift alignment with every good knock off road. I opted to get a lifetime alignment from firestone.
Agreed, cut those things out all the time! Also use the OEM parts!
I don’t trust most shops either, I own a Chevy now and my alignment stays in alignment better than my three Toyotas,… it’s a sad fact that most shops are rushing the mechanics way too much, it’s not necessarily that the mechanic doesn’t know anything, it’s the shop telling them to rush… they literally look very briefly and never spend time figuring things out.. also most shops over torque my wheels and warp the brake rotors, you don’t know the rotors are warped until you try stopping at high speeds…
It’s troublesome that there were so many untrustworthy shops encountered. However from a mechanical perspective, these OEM tabs are engineered for stock tires, and probably become the weak link with oversized tires. Good to know that aftermarket suppliers have addressed this issue with replacement upgraded hardware.
This is why I try to DIY almost everything on my vehicles except major engine work, and computer related issues.
Makes sense to me
The computer stuff is often easy leash I found out. I don’t mind it now.
I’m going to photograph my cams before the next alignment for sure.
good idea! I am going to go look at mine now, and if they are bad, im going to attempt to fix and weld in support
I was thinking of taking a pen to mark them to see if they adjust them.
I always mark tie rod, sleeve, a photograph i will use next, great idea
Also, get a centre punch and a light tap to see if has even moved.
It is almost worth getting a MEASURE and REPORT only, should be cheaper and educational.
Then ... reading the specs, the service manual procedures, figure the settings you need - especially if they will be non standard and ... do it youself
Then take the vehicle back to MEASURE and REPORT the alignment you have achieved.
I know, hh:mm and $$$, am I going mad?
I’ve only taken my Tundra to the dealer from mile 1 for service. They’ve managed to cause more damage than good. From over torqued lugs that caused them to mushroom, cross threaded the bolts to skid plate, unable to diagnose key fob issues then ran out of warranty. I’ve decided to do the maintenance myself
I feel your pain. I agree, no one has a good work ethic these days.
Alignments are easy. You can get used machines pretty cheap these days to do it yourself
Im going to have to look into that... Cross threaded skid plate bolts screams that they are just using an impact to start bolts... ugh.
I sympathize with you, as a retired mechanic l also have trouble finding a decent mechanic. Most can’t even tie their own shoes. I have had the same experience with seemingly straight forward repairs that can’t get done. I do what I can but most are too strenuous for me ( l am 75).
This is exactly why I do as much as I can myself. The mechanic shop that I do use when it's something I don't have the equipment for, was recommended by a coworker/friend. They were quickly vetted when they could have ripped me off but didn't. Their parking lot is always full and you are going to have to wait a few days to get whatever service done. I always recommend them when people ask and they do.
We are a small off-road shop in Castle Rock Colorado. We focus on off-road vehicles but work on almost anything. Wheels, tires, suspensions, brakes, accessories, and custom fabrication are the main things we do. We LOVE having our work scrutinized! If you want someone that cares, give us a call. We want to work on your passion! As for this video, sorry you are running into this issue. We find that a good alignment shop is hard to find.
Support the shops that support you. I had this level of partnership until the old man who owned the joint closed up shop. His kids didn't want to get dirt and grease on their hands. I would walk in and pay almost MSRP for a winch or fab parts from them because they hosted trail runs, camping events, and they were the only shop in town who could install a ring and pinion ($150 if you supply parts). I had to learn how to use a crush sleeve after they closed.
Great video. I’ll be 59 this year and I still do all of this type of work myself. I have also tried to outsource to local shops, and all they do is charge money and make a mess out of the alignment. My wife took delivery of her brand new jeep, Rubicon. Prior to heading out west last year, I replaced every single stock suspension component with Clayton Offroad products. I needed this to be right, so my son and I did it ourselves, including the alignment. Sad reality but if you want it done right, learn how to do it and do it yourself.
I have a Toyota Tacoma and a 4x4 Sprinter van. This problem is even worse on my Sprinter because the MB dealer will not touch my suspension because of my mods. Most shops have no clue even how to properly jack-up my van. An example, you cannot jack a Sprinter by the rear differential. The diff cover plate hangs over a bit and a jack will deform this and cause a leak. I've replaced my diff cover so this is not a problem.
I like to combine cam tab reinforcements with marlin crawler lca gussets to really reinforce the lca pivots and cam tabs. I take all of my clients vehicles personally to my alignment guy and i get under the lift with him. its a great business relationship and ensures we are aware of any current issues. ive gone through alot of alignment shops in the last few years before i finally found someone that knows what theyre doing
I feel your pain. Smaller specialty shops are definitely my preference for all of the reasons mentioned. Poor shop reliability has had me doing more and more of my own work with, frankly, better results.
I’m sure under normal use, with stock wheel offset/backspacing, and suspension height, those cam stops probably hold up quite well. You are totally correct that the industry is losing far too many mechanics with vast knowledge due to age, at this point, you’ll have to take your loss and chock it up to missing the install of the cam tab reinforcing kit. Happy trails!
I was an mechanic for 27 years at a national chain shop. I was considered to be one of the best alignment guys in the city, and I strove to do everything, not just alignments, as perfect as humanly possible! But the sad fact is, I was a rarity! It all boils down to whether a person takes pride in their work or not! I did. It was either going to be right, or I wasn’t going to do it. Now that I’m retired, I do all of the work on my own vehicles that I can do. I have a pretty well equipped shop at home, but I can’t justify buying an alignment machine. I cringe every time I have to take a vehicle to someone else! It is beyond frustrating because it seems that no one cares about the quality of their work! I considered my reputation to be very important, but as I said, I am rarity! I don’t know the answer!
I'm one if the few young guys that tried to go into the trades. Both the jobs I had in mine, nobody cared about their work and nobody had any idea what the specifications were that we were supposed to be working to. Management always ends up hassling me because I can't keep up with people who are doing half the work that I am. Now I can't even get a job because I've quit too many.
You made a good point with the alignment issue, I think it applies to any off roader regardless of make and model. We tend to stress our vehicles more than the average driver, I will reiterate a point you made. Learn the basics of every suspension component, you don't need to be an expert like you said, you just need to know enough to spot shoddy work or potential problems. Keep up the good work! Your videos are well worth the time to watch and I tend to learn something new with each one.
Thank you! I had no idea as I rely on mechanics to do alignment. As you said we can learn everything and need to rely on others. Finding a good shop/mechanic is critical. I know it’s a good shop when they answer my initial questions, call with additional problems when encountered, and always spend time explaining what was done when I come to pick it up. You right, that good shop is not a big chain nor are they quick to get into. Thanks for the education on alignment and how to spot a less than dedicated shop.
No problem, glad it was helpful.
I have a small bicycle shop and workshop.
Based on the customers return rate assume that we are doing good work.
So my advice is find the shop where you believe to guys and become their regular customer, create relatioship.
If you will, they will provide you with benefit of special short lead times and so on.
The same as we do. For good customer I will stay overtime with no doubts just make him/her happy.
Because I know that he will return an spend much more money with us. He will tell his friends about us and I will have a base of customers who value the good quality work and wish to spend bit more money for such work (compare to big anonymous shops)
I (was) a semi- competitive cyclist / enthusiast. Rode big miles and commuted a good distance to work. As a result, I wore out parts. Our team had two shops as sponsors. Both were good. But I'd always go to my favorite mechanic and bring him / the shop a six pack when I picked up my bike. He actually made a big mistake once. It was a huge safety issue and I could have been badly injured. he forgot to verify that the stem bolts holding the handlebars were tight. During my first ride the next day, I braked hard with my hands on the hoods at a downhill intersection and my handlebars rotated so that the brakes/brifters rotated downward mostly out of reach and I actually ran into the intersection. The mechanic acknowledged the error, noting that they are "supposed" to check torque and tightness on each bolt before sending the bike out..... Nobody is perfect. He's still my favorite cycling wrench....shop is good too. Point being, folks do make mistakes, but I trust the shop and the wrench so I go back and recommend the shop to others. (Although maybe I should always check everything related to "stopping" the bike when it comes home from service - I have all the tools).
@jimrice4699 sure we do, all of us.
I am with you fully.
I have a ritual that I check breaks, handlebars, freeplay in wheelsets, and headsets on my bikes and motorcycle. Nothing sophisticated, just 20 sec check. The same I do in front of customer with his bike during the handover, to minimize the possible issue.
This is turned into the why we don't take our vehicles to garages to work on them anymore.
I love the point that one of the posters made about if it's a difficult job like a fuel pump and you get the right price and it's a straightforward project then pull the trigger on having the shop do it.
I am with most of you. In the fact that I realized a number of years ago how the steelership was negligent with my new truck after trusting them with it for a few years.
Went to harbor freight stocked up on tools. Like I used to have in my garage a number of years ago and haven't looked back.
Has so many have said before me on this post. So much better to do it yourself saves money headaches and it's done right even if it's done wrong then it's my fault I can live with that
You need to weld on some cam tab gussets and get a cam eliminator kit, not only will it reinforce those tabs but your alignment will stay true after a trip 👌
To think that those little tabs are what keep your alignment is part sad and part scary. A truly competent technician does not even require these to do an alignment.
I have had the opposite experience as this one.
I have a 2007 F150 with 301,000 hard miles.
After replacing ball joints myself, it was a Friday and I was in a hurry and my local guy couldn't fit me in until Tuesday. Called big chain shop and they said they could fit me in first thing the next morning.
Next morning, they said that because the tabs were not perfect, they were unable to do an alignment.
Took in to local shop Tuesday. Told them about it, showed receipt from other shop. He just laughed.
Then he explained the situation.
A tech that doesn't really understand suspensions/alignment will hook it all up to an alignment computer system. Then they simply follow directions from that screen. Loosen nut "A" turn cam "B" ?? degrees, like a paint by numbers... They obviously don't know what or why they are changing, just that the computer told them to.
If the parts on the truck don't match exactly with what's on the computer screen, the tech is helpless.
Local guy has been working on farm trucks, hunting trucks etc for over 40 years. Does having the exact pieces make it simpler? Absolutely! Are they "required" in order to do alignment? Absolutely not.
He has a lot of tools that he can work with and does exacting work.
So, perhaps the guy that pointed out the problem is not really the hero. Perhaps some of the guys doing the work without complaining WERE actually giving you quality alignments...
Just my personal experience for the 7.3 cents that it's worth.
Local, YES, Big box, NO but NOT for the reasons you gave...
We had a family owned front end alignment shop here for over 50 years and were rated on of the top shops in the nation and took great care of the customer and they finally decided to call it quits sold it to another company that also is an alignment shop and they shut it down and now all you have is the big box store tire shops that do crappie work. It’s really hard to trust people and shops anymore.
To be fair i feel like most alignment and tire shops especially franchises are filled with neck downs, people who gave up on life, and people with their 1st or 2nd job.
Your last bit of advice on going to a shop that’s available instead of booked is great.
The alignment tab is for the cam to rest on during installation. Under proper torque the bolt crushes the inner sleave of the bushing and the mount together such that no movement should be possible or it's not setup right. If that bolt moved it would mean it's setup incorrectly.
Well.... over half of mine are crushed so either the torque is the issue or the tab serves a purpose and isn't strong enough.
I don't think this guy knows what an alignment is it's totally allingible. You don't move allingments unless they are out of Allingmemt
Who knows why as you said you haven't been paying attention.
Your suspension rides on bushings not bolts. Those tabs ensure that the bolts are correctly aligned before the mount and bushing are crushed together.
The interface between the bushing and it's inner sleave is where the rotation happens.
Your spot on, find small shops with good people. They will care about your biz. Big chains care about profit.
Gotta say watching Nate and Max Powell have given me some insight, coupled by my local Toyota Dealership service department. I've used the same outfit that Max uses and between the two its worked out well. I also follow the Taco forum. I also have the dealership do a 2nd check after a 3rd party service such as alignment or if I've done my own work. I'm retired so I know that not everyone has the same resources.
This has been the story of my life for the last 15 years. Learning how to properly work on my car unveiled many terrible jobs professionals left behind only for me to finally do it correctly. One of my last chapters was learning how to string a toe align and set up caster/camber angles after an alignment tech botched a job I gave him. My confidence in any mechanic was long gone.
Fast forward to today after retiring the old lady bought in '93 -- I continue to wrench on an older 4runner and don't hesistate to do maintenance and upgrades on the new vehicle I bought last year.
When I finally decide to get work done at a shop again because time in the garage is better spent elsewhere, I will scrutinize the returned product to make sure it meets my standards because of trust issues.
And that's the entertaining, but challenging world I live in :)
im surprised it took you that long to find out. that was the very first thing i heard about when i got into toyotas with cam tabs around 7 years ago. also i always check the torque on the cam bolts after alignment. one shop didn’t torque them down and had terrible creaking sound. never went back there.
Yeah, it’s kind of obvious now that this is a common issue… but never ran into it in the past
I forgot to add to my comments your included in who I pay attention to. The posting about overloaded rigs caught my attention and hence my last suspension upgrade to include weighing my gear and trimming down what I carry. Thanks for the advice and great channel.
This is a tough one! I’m a certified A&P mechanic with a lot of real world experience and a two year degree in my field. I was being paid 10.50 per hour at an aircraft facility in 2014. I left and went back to construction so I could make a living. More recently I’ve been offered $25 per hour but that still isn’t enough. Where I live a family has to have a 6 figure income to even think about home ownership.
That’s really bad none of those shops mentioned those tabs. Local shops are the way to go, they’re a bit more expensive but well worth it for these reasons. I have cam eliminator bolts and my local shop gets it dialed every time. Definitely worth getting a permanent alignment and getting new tabs.
The solution is to learn how to do it yourself. I am fortunate to have an amazing Toyota shop here in Grand Junction with Metric Offroad. They are the only shop that touches my Taco if I can't do the work. As for the cam tabs, Total Chaos makes a heavy duty cam tab upgrade that I put on my '02 Taco.
Will do my own alignments from now on. Had alignment done on my truck and my front tires wear out in less then a year. Check the alignment myself and it was way off from spec. Aligned it myself in my driveway and 1.5 years later tires still wearing normally.
This may sound strange to most of us but some of this goes back to our public schools. From an educator (30 years in public and county vo-tech schools) on why some of the reasons for shortages of young mechanics. When public school districts have cuts in their budgets that come down from their state because of budget issues, the first areas they cut are elective classes. Any shop class in a high school and middle school is an elective class, so they would get cut, especially if their numbers of students in a class is down. Other elective classes are: Business, Home Economics, Computers, Music, Band, Art, gym (unless gym classes are required by the state for graduation) and those classes are usually one or two semester classes. So, look at your school district’s elective class offerings. And one more BIG cut to elective classes has to do with states that have yearly State Exams in May or close to the end of a school year. These state tests usually start in elementary schools and go through to graduation from high school. In some states if your son or daughter don’t pass that final test in high school, they won’t get a High School Diploma. If a school doesn’t have results that are good to very good on those state tests, the school district will add additional classes in their schools in the tested areas that they did poorly in, such as and usual in English and Math. So, requirements in those two areas will double. Guess what, some more elective classes will HAVE TO BE CUT again. That happened in my old school district. It may have happened in your public school district. Then there’s your County Vocational Schools. Usually those students take their basic graduation requirements for graduation in the morning and their Vo-Tech program is in the afternoon but they get tested too. I’m not sure what happens if a Vo-Tech student doesn’t pass the State Exams in English/Language Arts and/or in Math. My guess is they may have to take a extra English and/or Math classes, if the aren’t already doing that in their morning classes. And then our school districts all get compared to all of the other public schools in the state. The number of students in a class is always looked at for consolidation of classes to cut expenses. It’s just like a business and I worked there too. Your biggest expense are employees and benefits. If you cut people, you save not only their salary but the cost of their benefits. In a store, if you don’t increase your sales, you can’t have more associates or employees. If your stores sales figures decrease, you cut employees because you can’t afford all of those employees. If your store has high shrinkage or theft percentages … say higher than 3.0% or 3.5%, which could be from shoplifters and/or from employees, as that store becomes more unprofitable and if it doesn’t fix the problem, it could be closed by the home office. That’s happening in a lot of the bigger cities in the country. So, there’s some of the latest on the cutting of shop classes in public schools. Stay safe everyone and keep prepping every day, because it’s the only way, to stay safe. 🙏🏼🇺🇸
You are right on. We must learn about and take responsibility that it gets done right. Cause it's a train wreck out there. + do what you can yourself. And find a local small shop that cares and charges accordingly for what you cannot do.
This is an amazing video. Thank you for sharing your experience.
A goo and trustworthy mechanic is hard to find and worth his/her weight in GOLD! I went to Ford dealership fo 2.5 years after buying my new 2001 F-150 way back when and they were clearly ripping me off for those 2.5 years. Luckily, I got a good referral from a friend and have been with my local mechanic for the last 20 plus years.
My solution for this issue I've learned years ago.
By not taking my truck to anyone and do all the work myself.
I'm surprised that you didn't notice the bolts not moved when you said about rebuilding the front end.
You don't need the eccentrics to do an alignment, many vehicles that have slots for alignments don't even come with them. Now as for alignment slipping, the factory bushing sleeves have serrations that dig into the k-member when tightened and will hold alignment really good. While aftermarket stuff will usually just be a smooth end and will tend to slip, now needing to rely on the eccentric and tiny tabs to hold the slipping which it wasn't designed to do.
Great video, I’ve felt like this before and you did a good job putting it into words.
I think a lot of us that aren't lifetime pro mechanics feel this way... I still have a lot to learn.
There are plenty of after market companies making lift kits and suspension products that they never thoroughly test as well as repair shops that will install anything. But the more the geometry of the stock OEM suspension is changed the more likely it will cause suspension misalignment and travel issues. Adding larger tires and custom rims also increases the unsprung weight on each wheel which results in more stress and wear on all the rest of the drivetrain components. Thats why I went with a mild 2.5 inch lift from Carli suspension for my Ram truck because they thoroughly test every component to make sure there aren't any long term compatibility issues and I kept my stock rims and tires. The Carli suspension wasn't cheap but it is a one and done and that on the back end and long term brings value to the purchase that more than justifies the up front costs.
I totally agree with you about shops. Some are ok but most are butcher's. I can tell you that their are alignment shops like Les Schwab that will give you a computer print out on alignments showing before and after telemetry for your vehicle.
Most shops I've seen assign the most junior mechs to do the alignments.
I don't trust anyone so I learned to do my own at home.
Toe plates, Smart Racing camber gauge and using strings and magazines.
Thank you for this information brother when I get home I’ll check mine now…wow I’m afraid to even look!!!
You are correct and knowing is half the battle. Sadly, educate yourself enough to trust someone else.
When I was much younger I got so tired of stuff like that and worse, that I went to technical school for auto mechanics. Its a shame more young people dont want to get their screen swiping hands dirty. There's a huge need for people who are good at fixing things & it is more rewarding than I think they realize.
Reminds me to get my 1st gen Tundra aligned. Thanks! …getting good techs (electrical, plumbing, hvac, roofing) for home is super hard and crazy expensive - it’s everywhere… 😔
If you live in the phoenix AZ area. Take your vehicles to network alignment &brakes. They do good work there.
if you want it done right you gotta do it yourself. I would fab up some plates to back up against those tabs and weld them all in, also get some trackmotive xtended travel CV axles. might be a stretch but you could get your own alignment machine. I work at a dealership and love having access to an alignment machine but I'm leaving the automotive industry soon. will be hard to trust having a shop do it. also it's the way Mechanics are paid, there is no incentive to take your time unfortunatly.
Learned to DIY on my Eagle Talon. Had a local shop that my family had trusted for years to do things above/beyond basic maintenance. I went there to get the timing belt changed and due to incompetence and/or ignorance, they about destroyed my engine by not following pretty clear instructions in the shop manual. After that, I taught myself and did all my own work for everything except for trying to balance the tires (too expensive to buy gear to do that for the occasional tire). Too many of the shops around cut corners or just don't follow the shop manuals for doing the jobs. The other problem is very few people have even the slightest clue how a vehicle works. They've never learned and have no interest. Sadly a lot of those are the ones that drive like complete lunatics on road with no idea how good their tires/breaks/suspension systems are working and just assume they can stop on a dime and give you 5 cents back. Also sad that they took shop and drivers ed out of schools, if they still had them, possibly there'd be a little less stupid on the road and maybe they'd be better able to tell if the shop did the work or not.
I have worked in several custom automotive shops including a Landcruiser Specialty shop in Idaho, what I have learned is exactly what you’re saying. We had our reputation on the line and never felt it necessary to rush a job out the door, quality over everything. I have also found that if you’re working with custom vehicles the best way to go is find someone that specializes in that vehicle or brand. No one can do top tier quality work and know everything about all vehicles. It pays to have a mechanic that knows your vehicle inside and out 👍
OMG I need so much Land Cruiser Help... You still in Idaho?
Total Chaos makes a set of good quality cam tab gussets for the Tundra and Tacoma. I had a set put on my 2016 tacoma and they held up great. The kit will run you about $160 shipped but you will have to have them welded on.
Honestly I'm surprised you took this long to figure it out! First set of coils I purchased, I was working under the truck and couldn't move the tabs because they rust and seize. I bought another arm, new bolts. Never even thought about the actual tabs until some threads popped up a few years back!
Tundras don't seem to have the Seizing issue a lot of Tacomas have... or at least not as bad... so it wasn't really on my radar.
When I bought my 2015 Tundra 2 yrs ago, I wanted to "baseline" all the fluids, so I took it to my trusted Toyota dealer that I've had pretty good luck with. At some point later on, I was poking around underneath and observed the lack of disturbance or slight chew marks indicating a metal tool had been applied to the drain and fill bolts on the rear/front diffs. I also noticed the absence of any wet/fluid marks or dark areas around the fill plug. Any time you mess with an oil change or anything like that, there is some evidence...the dust is wiped away/a bit of oil residue etc.
Next visit, I asked. They told me they just stick a tube in a siphon out the fluid and refill. That's why the bottom bolts for sure looked like they had not been disturbed.
These days you have to ask about EVERYTHING. I've heard of some oil change places siphoning out old oil from up top. Probably because the 16 yr. doesn't know how to NOT cross thread and over torque a drain bolt.
Always insist that they do a drain and fill or just do it yourself. It's sad that companies have been taking your alignment money for years and not really doing anything.
I worked as a toyota tech for four years. I do remember this on Tundras cause I kept getting the weird tire wear on 'em.
I never found the remedy for it.
Yes, I agree, good mechanics seem to be treated as just another job filler that anyone can replace, and after having their fill of corporate they leave ... I'm 68 years old , have 48 years here , still working but now new owners .. I see the handwriting on the wall .. I've applied for my SS
Man come bring that to me I'll align, it fix the tabs and teach you how to align it. For me it all started when the alignment shop said my (Long Travel) Tacoma was to wide and wouldn't fit on the alignment rack. So I learned how to do it myself.
I do all my vehicles alignments, installs, maintenance, fabrication, ect. They have never been to a shop besides tire mount and balance. I have a long travel Tacoma, off road STI, drift 240sx, Baja Bug and 1450 class race Ranger. I've done alignments on all those plus my friends vehicles (Tacoma, Tundra, Frontier, Jeeps, RZR, Silverado)
You so right. It seems you have to be an expert yourself in order to have anything of your own worked on by anyone else.
This is a perfect example of as a mechanic I still work on my own stuff. If you want it done right you need to do it yourself. Even your alignment. Toyotas are notorious for your stock tabs getting pushed over, maybe you should complain to whomever built your lower arms and ask them why they didn’t come with Hiems on the ends and just bolt into the stock weak locations?
Every time I take a vehicle to a shop, I end up paying top dollar to end up getting the work done by some high school kid working on the weekend. It is invariably screwed up and I end up redoing it my self. Last time I took a rig in , I paid $500 to have them replace a $20 part on a job that generally took about 20 minutes.I told them the part to change so they didn’t even have to do any diagnosis. I do all my own work now but I am retired and have the time. I have droves of people bugging me to do their work but that opens a whole another can of worms so I generally refuse. When I do, the previous work done is nothing short of appalling.
I feel for you good sir, that really sucks. This is why I never trust stealerships and mechanics if i need work done. I’ve been slowly educating myself and acquiring a bunch of tools to just do it myself over the years and i can’t wait to teach my son and daughter. If i had your lift i would get so much more work done efficiently
I hear you... before I built the shop my only option was a gravel drive way... that isn't level anywhere... having the shop has helped me take on all kinds of new projects... your point on your kids is so cool as well... getting to teach my kids this stuff is awesome... that welding clip was my son's first time ever trying to weld. Good luck with your builds.
I once went by a shop and got a front in estimate for a front end work . $800. This was years ago. Went to another across town, a shop I knew. $120. When I was paying I showed the manager the estament from the first shop. He shook his head. He told me the difference was his mechanic’s weren’t on Part’s Commission. 15% Commission on the parts they sell .
Thanks for the info. It does still beg the question, who is an actual certified mechanic and what experience do they have? Can't wait to have robots fix these issues.
I couldn't agree more. I have a Tundra also and i hate taking my truck into the dealer, i just don't trust they are doing what they say they're going to do. Not sure what the answer is. Not to mention how expensive they are $$$.
I didn't have this level of problem, but I did have this quality problem. I don't change my own oil, I take it somewhere. I recently took my vehicle to another mechanic for a repair and it was time for and oil change so I asked them to go ahead and do that while they were working on it. They called and told me that the plug for the oil pan had been over torqued and while it might still seal, it fail sometime in the future. My only choice was to replace the entire oil pan or try and rethread. I opted for rethread as I'm not sure I will be keeping the vehicle much longer anyway.
I used to do most of my general maintenance work but found it easier and more convenient to pay for it. I may need to start making time again. Which is sad.
when you hook up with the local club, go to the occasional meeting and support them. When they can hang a name on your face they will be more willing to talk to you. One thing you only touched on was when you find a shop, build a relationship with them and develop a clear line of communication and trust.
Dave's Auto Center in Centerville, UT is the new standard.
You hit the nail on the head. Have the knowledge to be able to do at least a cursory inspection of your own vehicle. Otherwise you probably shouldn’t be doing things that are outside the norm, i.e. beating on your car. The larger issue with mechanics is “book time” and shop foreman want repairs done to a quote rather than to “done right”.
I even went back to doing my own oil changes because on RUclips. Everyone was putting dirty oil on the new clean oil filter gasket.
It's to the point to where if you're not doing the work yourself, you're at serious risk of getting screwed over
Thanks for an excellent video. I learned a lot and agree with you on the challenge of selecting a shop to work on your vehicle. Carry On Sir!
Jam nuts! The Inner tie rod need a jam nut where it threads into the outer tie rod. with out the jam nut the toe will change while driving.
Yup... I am aware... we are still working out the kinks and I am waiting for them to ship out... somehow they got left out .
Oversized tires and lifted has so much more leverage than stock. Surely that’s part of the problem. I do almost all my own work because I’ve been burned. Plus I want it done exactly the way I want it done.
My truck was crashed into in a parking lot. I wasn't in the truck, so I can't say exactly what happened, but I know the person who hit my truck and they immediately told me and we got it sorted out. My insurance company was prompt, getting me a rental car and dropping off the truck at a local body shop the next day. It took 7 months to get reimbursed the deductible, but it did eventually get back in my pocket. The shop didn't do an alignment, and when I picked the truck up I could immediately tell the alignment was off. The shop only dealt with the most obvious visible damage, and hadn't done anything to make sure the truck was repaired correctly. Luckily, I used to be a mechanic, so I gave the truck a detailed inspection and brought it back to the shop the insurance sent me to to have the work done properly. They were so rude and difficult to get to do the job right. Eventually they did the work, but it was like pulling teeth to get the work done until I talked to the manager. Once they got the truck up on the alignment rack, the alignment was off by a few degrees. I understand why shops work so fast, but it would have saved everyone time and money if they'd simply done the job right in the first place instead of only doing the bare minimum and then having to get the truck in a second time and give me a rental car a second time.
Oof! That sucks man! It took me years to find shops I trust. I had Westcott Designs do the lift install on my Land Cruiser and when they ran into an issue, the owner Jeff loaned me their super charged 4Runner for 2 weeks! They nailed the lift too! I found a local Toyota Master mechanic that opened his own shop during covid and he does great work for repairs and has never steered me wrong.
That sounds like a killer loaner car.... I have heard a lot of good things about Westcott. Unfortunately they are like @TAVLLC (one of my favorite shops)... they are too far away for me to use.
I am right there with ya!!! I had a car with a broken control arm (I didn't know) get aligned. When I figured it out, I was furious.
Oh man... that is bad.
wow yes you hit the nail on the head. so far the best shop I found was recommended by my son-in-law who has used them several times. they are local and yes the hard part is you have to wait. So personal recommendations from some one you know is probably the best. I also used a small ford dealership for years. I had a relationship with the service guy and trusted his recommendations and their work may have been more expensive sometimes, but it was done and if it wasn't right, they made it right no hassles. but my service guy left and that changed things. I am a bolt on bolt off type mechanic. when we got ahead a bit I started to do less and less stuff. and then got totally ripped off for an AC fix and catalytic convertor change out, very very poor workmanship. different shops! and just my recommendations for the convertors is just buy new assemblies, don't cut them out and new in unless you know you or someone else can weld worth a crap, I too am back to doing more myself, at least I know who to yell at if it isn't right. sorry for a little rant, it is upsetting.
Ha... Yeah... it is weird that it is reassuring that YOU are the only person to yell at some times...
I feel your pain. I have very little trust in any shop these days. Last muffler shop I went to was supposed to install a magnaflow muffler. As I was driving home I noticed the car was very quiet and I have had magnaflow in my V8s before. So I pulled over climbed under my rig and big as sh$t it said thrush right across the muffler they installed! Charged me 250$ for a 35$ muffler. I never in my life thought I would have to “ put someone on blast” but I did it ghetto as hell turned on my camera on my phone and confronted the shop owner who tried to tell me it’s the same muffler. He agreed to fix it if I deleted the video. Thank goodness he fixed it cus in my fit of range I forgot to hit record lol.
There is actually only two of those eccentric bolts on either side of the front control arms there is a washer with the adjustment scale on each side of each mount but they are connected together via a sleeve that the bolt goes through and the bolt holds everything together.
I tend to come to a shop with knowledge of the work I’m asking for. I always double check the work a few times after to see if everything looks right. Most time it’s correct but I’ve it been wrong a few times. Dog chasing its tail sometimes.
I've stopped getting my Toyotas aligned. Still get 40-50k hard miles out of my tires, trucks still drive straight. These get knocked out so easily I figure I'll just let it find it's happy place and run it lol
Saw one video on guy that got his Gladiator Rubicon regeared. Sounded like he did good research on this shop that was around for a long time and had a great reputation. He even did a video on a tour of the shop. Seems that within a year it broke.
There is a saying, you get what you paid for. When the price is “competitive”, it often means corners are cut.
SOLID FRONT AXEL!!! I hate to be that guy but it's true. It will save you so much headache, and you just Align it yourself.
I have more Solid Axle vehicles then not... so I get it... but IFS has its place.
Alignment has long been one of the oldest/easiest scam repairs because it is not that clear of an improvement
or what they did. Some vehicle don't have caster adjustment and very limited camber adjustment. I have often
wondered if vehicle alignment is done by shims, if the shop really has all the shims to do it correctly.
Last fall after I replaced my front control arms bushings and ball joints I purchased a new set of tires from Bell tire and also wanted to keep my old tires to give to a friend as they were only half gone, when I got in my vehicle and drove away my steering wheel was out at least 15 degrees from center and on top of that they threw in the back somebody else's roached tires. Needless to say I just couldn't believe the level of incompetence I just experienced, I'm sure they saw my old K02's and said "SCORE"! And took them. Of course I went back to express my disappointment in the incompetent work and the theiving of my half decent expensive tires. They made it right but I'm still not sure if it is and I just can't believe this kind of crap goes on with how expensive everything is.
People think I am crazy for taking my Challenger 4 hours away for a good alignment. The local "good shop" claims to work on race cars. Well, they tightened the lock nut on the heim joints to the wrong end and they came loose. Trashed a set of tires, wheel bearings and had a $700 tow bill to get home. They took no responsibility because they didn't install the control arms. 😒
My LJ has been amazingly resilient and doesn't chew tires so I don't mess with the alignment.
Not to put Gasoline on the issue , But if all these tabs are bent or missing there is some serious stress being placed on your frame at the control arms. Wrenched for 45 years but as aviation mechanic. This stress would indicate the OEM frame attachment points would need to be modified to support the extra loads placed on a design that wasn’t intended for. Sorry for the long winded comment.
I've also paid more for the full joint diagnosis and theyve told me everything is still solid when in fact, I went there to fix issues I've been feeling. I looked myself and sure enough I was able to diagnose what I just paid someone else to and they DIDNT. Im doing it all myself now within reason
Yeah, learning to work on your own vehicle is huge... but being able to take on every type of repair is hard and unrealistic for a lot of people.
I built a 2013 Land Cruiser and modified a 2021 along with too many jeeps to count, a Ram 2500 Cummins with manual Trans, a Chevy Colorado……My first choice, all things being equal, is the dealership most often where I bought the trucks from. Shop rates are more competitive than you think, they wont disappear and more often than not happy to see me arrive with a bed full,of suspension components, rock sliders or whatever, that I didn’t buy from them to install. MAP pricing prevents them from making really anything on selling particular niches parts. They may not know your shock brand or ever heard of SPC upper control arms but that generally doesn’t matter because if your aftermath components are properly engineered they will interface with the Truck exactly like the OEM parts. My local Toyota Dealer installed my ARB Bumper and winch and an Auxiliary fuel tank faster and cheaper by hundreds of dollars than my beyond excellent LC specialist in town who was booked for 6 months.
I know by name my service advisor and my mechanic and each have received white envelopes at Christmas or just as a thank you more than once. Most if not all dealers are selling modified cars brand new. Why not after the sell.
Although I do all the work on my suburban, my Kia Sportage is taken to a mechanic for almost everything. I had one last year who went through the vehicle and charged me $600 and only repaired a couple of small things. I was really unimpressed. And they have the best reputation in town! Instead I have a friend doing the heavy work. He is also a professional mechanic but an hour away so it's a bit more trouble but it's far worth it for the peace of mind.
In an experience more like yours, a friend of mine took her car in to get an oil change every 3,000 miles. Then the motor blew up. Turns out they never changed it.
Big problem with many shops is they pay flat rate to the techs. The tech gets 45 minutes say to align a vehicle. If they have a problem and have to wait for parts or in your case wait for the owner to call and get approval to fix something their lift is tied up and they probably just can't back the car out while they wait for a call back (and can't do anything else) so they just align it tighten it up really tight and send it down the road. That would be my guess. That is also the short story. I worked at a repair shop for a few years and saw techs recommend services that didn't need to be done (or could have waited) a little longer but again they make money only for the work they do. A good example is brake pads. Say you have 1/8 inch left on the pad and say it would go 5000 miles until it was really gone if they get you to buy a brake job everybody makes money except you :)
I’ll tell you my story,, my 2019 tacoma was brought in for an OME lift to a shop that not only works on trucks and off road vehicles but sells all the goodie’s that everyone wants, after a month or so after having this kit installed I kept wondering why the front end still had a noticeable rake as if still stock, not as drastic as stock set up but still there to some degree. I called the manufacturer to question the set up and at that point they asked me whether the front struts were constructed correctly?🧐🧐I said I imagine that they were nothing looks like it’s going to fall apart, and then they told asked me what was the configuration of the lower spring seats on the struts and that when I found out that the shop had installed the lower spring seats upside down leaving the front basically at a little more than stock height. Let’s just say it was an awkward situation for the shop to say the least.
As someone who had the engine destroyed on their Toyota Taco (a national chain), I felt this. And once the engine was destroyed, trying to get said chain to take action? Almost impossible. Thankfully I had an investigative journalist who had just done a bang-up exposé on this chain took interest in my situation and offered their help…which included the personal cell phone number of the CEO of the entire nationwide company. With the encouragement of this individual to call the CEO & ask for a new engine & to cover all costs at the garage of my choice to install it, I called and asked. If that didn’t work, he said, “drop my name.” I did. The reaction was immediate and I got my engine replaced at no cost. Some of these places are crap. I’m with you. Go local, go small, and buy them a 12’er or some food. Ask if you can rock their sticker on your vehicle. Thank them. When your vehicle rolls in the next time, you’re the “beer guy,” or whatever. And you’re taken care of.