I assumed I'd like the brass drum better but thought that the Supraphonic sounded more balanced and in control. Perhaps in the mix the Super Ludwig would shine but in this context the Supraphonic sounded more musical in easier to record. Great video!
Thanks so much for your comment! Yes, between these two drums the Supra seems more refined and broadly applicable, but the Super Ludwig definitely has a cool vibe to it, a bit more attitude somehow. Would be interesting to know how much this particular Super Ludwig represents to the model overall (I've had some Supras that were just funky sounding, so there is always some variance, particularly over time with differing treatment/care. Now I need to find a 5x14 COB Supra to compare with the Super Ludwig! That would be truly interesting (I have a COB Supra, but it's 6.5x14).
Very cool video comparison of the two drums. Yeah, you could hear the difference between the two but in the context of a mix I doubt you'd hear the difference. A few years ago I picked up a mid 70s 5x14 Supraphonic with the olive badge. On the inside it does have a sticker saying it was the Lud-Alloy version of the drum. You didn't mention it so I'm curious what you may know about it. John Bonham supposedly liked the 6.5x14 version which he said he liked better than the brass version of the drum. Anyway, my Supraphonic sounds great and I'm happy with what I found. Thanks for the video!!!
Hey Joel! Really loving the content lately. I’m a big drum nerd and can watch these types of videos all day. I’ve just filmed a bunch of snare demos that I’ll be releasing in the new year, most of them are also Ludwig. It was really interesting to hear them all side by side.
I like the Ludalloy Supraphonic much more, which surprises me, since I had both and I would have expected, that I'd like the COB more. But the Ludalloy sounds more modern, controlled, snappier and "fresh" to my ears. Great work!
Just as with my personal snares, I found the brass to have a bit more 'honk' and the aluminum to be a bit drier. Great comparison vid. Either one would be welcome in any drummer's arsenal!
I have really wondered how different both snares sound because John Bonham palyed Ludwig's "Supraphonic" snare! I think both of the snares sound super. I was so happy while you were playing the snares! I really really really thank you so much!
HELLO JOEL! Superb video, excellent picture quality and sound! Wonderful comparison of the two! I bought my first Ludwig Supraphonic 400 brand new in 1971 from Manny's Music in Manhattan! I still have it and believe it or not I am still using the original snares with the patent number on it! I only had to replace the top rim and the muffler in all those years! REMO Vintage X batter, REMO reso! As far as the low medium and high tuning I really loved the tone of the low tuning however my wrists prefer to play on a highly tuned skin, it just gives me an easier time doing my doubles, paradiddles, quick rolls etc!
Love your channel Joel, your recordings/demos sound amazing! I appreciate the knowledge shared, also your drumming sounds great each time! If you have any recorded work you played on or shows i would love to hear it!
Thank you! The vast majority of stuff I've played on has been independent records and library (licensing) music for commercials, training videos, etc... whatever people would license the music for. I don't really have a comprehensive list of things, and not sure how easy it would be to access those projects if I did, since (I imagine) most are out of print by now (I haven't had my commercial studio since 2015). I work in my private studio now, putting tracks on stuff people send me mostly, and I really don't know much about these projects. I should really put together some kind of list, though. Would be helpful for times like this when people ask to hear stuff I've played on. I'll see what I can come up with. Thanks for your kind words!
Another great video Joel. I think an interesting comparison would be made between the Ludwig Supraphonic and Ludwig Supersensitive models, as that might give insight into the merits or pitfalls of a parallel snare mechanism.
Agreed! I don't own a Super Sensitive, and haven't for probably 25 years. I didn't love it back then (primarily, as I recall, because of the awkward mechanism that stuck off both sides of the shell so far... hard to find a case for it), so I sold mine, though I have since fallen in love with Tama's roller bed strainer snares (Mastercraft, etc. made throughout the 1980s). These have snares longer than the drum is wide, so the entire snare side head has wires on it, right off the edge (like the SS, though active from only one side instead of parallel mechanism). I wonder (now... all these years later) how similar the behavior might be between these two designs (and compared to the Supra as well). Maybe I'll keep my eyes out for a good Super Sensitive for comparison! Thanks for the idea!
@@drumdotpizza The 14 x 6.5 model was used by Phil Collins, Bil Burford and Nico McBrain to name a few. And for good reason; they offer increased sensitivity and a "wetter" sound by the very nature of the design. To my ears anyway. By the way, Sonor also used parallel snare mechanisms on their Signature series, as well as the Phonic Throw-Off II. And given what you have experienced with those snares, you know how sensitive they can be. Any such comparison would be highly informative. Thanks again!
@@drumdotpizza I had a supersensitive and hated the snare buzz (This was like 30 yrs ago). I almost bought another last yr, until I remembered the snare buzz thingy :-D
another great video would be to compare that supra to low tier drums from ludwig pearl and etc. to find what can get you close or highlight the pros and cons of each one in context
Great video! Thanks much! Supraphonic-phile here. I have a great one with the pits and such that I traded for at Guitar Center (what a STEAL), but with some weird features/mysteries that you could probably solve if you saw it. I'll put it on my channel and link it.
I have both of them and play the Ludalloy snare a tad more often. They both sound great. Thanks for your very informative video and your tasteful drumming. Best regards from Germany...
Heck with the snares, that floor tom is fricking awesome! Great video. I thought the supraphonic snares were steel shells, thanks for correcting that and also explains why it sounds close to my galaxy burst “blackrolite”.
The 'blackrolite' is perhaps my favorite desert island snare (if I could have only one...). It does pretty much what the Supra does, but its 8 lugs make it a bit punchier and it lives better at lower tunings, IMO than a Supra. And I'm convinced the black galaxy powdercoat adds enough mass to increase the LF response a bit as well as mellows the character of the drum overall (compared to a Supra), so it can be tuned/muffled to mimic almost any drum out there (particularly with appropriate miking and processing). Perhaps THE most versatile snare on the market, and a steal at the going price (even though that has increased in the past couple of years -- used to buy them for $125 all day long, now they're $225+). Still, a killer deal for a killer drum!
Hey, there's my ol Cobby! While I prefer my Ludalloy 400's for most things, the COB has a great low end when muffled up too. You get a sense of it from the low tuning you showed. Great job man, love it!
Thanks for letting me use it for this comparison, man! Mucho appreciated. So... have you had a chance to put that Bell Brass I dropped off through the ringer yet?
I have the new super ludwig 5x14 and has no snare beds and nickel over brass hardware.I feel like it definitely has that supra rimshot vibe and I also have a black galaxy 5x14 acrolite that I feel doesn't have it.I agree with just about everything with you on your comparisons and of course we have way different drums.Also I noticed playing live, the Acro goes way lower and punchy in live rooms(or outside) while the super ludwig does so in small rooms.Might also be brass is louder and brighter but its all interesting when there's a chrome coating too.Could be just me.Loving the videos!
I have a 66, too. My serial number starts with 3. Same script as yours. I was too lazy to get to a light and see the date although I believe it was October????? Great video.
Very interesting how transparent the overtones sound on the supraphonic compared to the super. I am now glad that I own the supraphonic rather than the super.
The Supra is lighter than the Super. This what you're hearing. I love the heavier shell for the lower tuning (greater low end 'punch'). But yes, you're exactly right -- lighter drums provide brighter tones.
They do indeed! I wish I could separate all the variables (rolled/welded construction, brass vs. aluminum, snare bed design) and see what each one, alone, does to the sound of the drum. Collectively, however, the difference in performance is striking. I'm LOVING the authority of the Super when tuned low!
Hey Joel! Nice comparison video! Suprisingly, the 66 seems to have more low end to it (for my ears), even though brass is known to be the metal with more low end and less high frequencies. I guess it's because the brass version is heavier than the aluminium one. I really like that you are comparing a seamless and a welded shell. I know there is a big cult around seamless vs. welded shells out there, but I never thought it makes much of a difference. Given identical thickness, bearing edges etc. a seam shouldn't make a noticeable difference. Maybe a topic for a future video? Cheers mate!
That is an interesting observation... what speakers are you listening on? I ask, because my observations about the Super is that (in the low tuning) it has much more low end punch than the aluminum Supra. In the medium tuning its just louder than the aluminum with a tad less wire response, and in the high tuning the Super Ludwig's wires sound a little choked, giving the drum a little throatier, raw, hollow tonality? None of this in a bad way, of course, just two different, but very useful sounds! Like I said in the video, I wish I owned them both!
@@drumdotpizza I'm listening on Presonus Eris E5 with a Sub8. I gave the comparison another go. At medium and high tuning I would still say, that the alu is deeper. I have to agree with you on the lower tuning. But I think it's because the low tuning is a bit out of the comfort zone of the 66. It's sounds more muddy and chocked than the brass. That's why it lacks body.
Never owned a Supraphonic but about 25 years ago got a hold of an aluminum alloy (I assume) over wood Ludwig snare.Very nice shiny finish. Dont know what it was called. Sounded great and got some compliments from audience members on it. They were not drummers themselves just liked the tone. Do you happen to know what that drum was? Sold in the 70s. But like to know what it was called. Havent been able to find it on line. Thx.
A Ludwig model L600 perhaps? The early ones had B/O badges and bowtie lugs, but that later switched to B/W badges and Rocker/Standard lugs (though I believe kept the same model number). Originally natural interior, later granitone interior. I have one with the granitone interior, and it is a nice drum, though it was marketed to be the cheaper wooden snare drum (before they switched manufacturing of the cheaper drums to Asia). The wrap on those, btw, is actual sheet metal (not sure what alloy) not chromed plastic wrap as is done today. If you ever rewrap one take care not to bleed yourself with all the cuts you can get trying to remove that sheet metal wrap!
@@drumdotpizza once had a 70's COW Slingerland kit...notoriously hard to get the wrap off...I took the lugs off a spare tom and left it my storage room that used to get super cold...the heating and cooling of the metal and expansion eventually cracked the glue and it came off on it's own.
Cool demo. Would like to know the differences in the Supraphonic and the acrolite shell’s beside the lugs. Is the aluminum different between the two. Also would like to know your Tunebot settings on these two drums.
Thanks for the questions! Ludwig's Supraphonic, Super Sensitive, and Acrolite all share the exact same shell. Same alloy, same shape/form, same raw shell... Exact. Same. From there the raw shell goes to plating (Supras and SSs) or finishing (Acrolites have had various finishes over the years, originally rather natural, later powder coated). The Supras and SSs were drilled for 10 imperial lugs (same hole pattern as bowties, BTW) and their respective strainer/butt assemblies. Acrolites got 8 bowtie lugs and P-85/P-32 butt. The 10 lug arrangement allows for more refined tuning for a more refined sound. Acrolite's 8-lug design is a bit punchier in the mids, IMO. I love the slightly raw sense I get from 8 lug snare drums. Exceptional snare response on all drums in broad tuning ranges given the wide and shallow design of the snare beds. The Tune-Bot settings for both drums were: Snare side - 400 (this was constant for the batter tunings) Batter high - 300 Batter medium - 270 Batter low - 200 Thanks so much for your questions and for being here!
@@drumdotpizza Really appreciate the answers. I kinda felt guilty about asking so many. Was really wondering about the acro and 402 shell differences. And your tuning sounded great and was I interested to see how each tuning affected the differences between the aluminum and brass shell’s and at what tune-bot setting. You have a new subscriber so keep it up for all us nerds out here!
Beautiful drums however, tuning down low does not appear to be they're strong point sonically speaking! I'm looking for vintage and I think the 6.5 Supra will be the way I go based on what I've heard today, so thank you!
Hi. Thanks for all the cool Supra info. I love these drums. I've had 5"s and 6.5" and presently I have a 3 year old Super which is my first and only one of these models ever. Now for me nothing sounds better on any snare drum but 30 or more snare wires. Your drums barely sound like snare drums to me with those low number of strands. I use a 42 Sabian blend on my Super and be damned about snare beds in any snare actually. I also use a wood snare side hoop on my Supra and that adds dryness to the snare buzz and a lot of warmth at same time. It really sounds fabulous at any tuning range but I always prefer med/high on batter and really tight on snare side. Thanks for the video and info presented. I like your playing too.
Just make sure you got wide enough beds for those 42-strand wires! Lots of beds aren't wide enough, and the outer strands just rattle away. Supras have wide beds though, so it works (John Bonham liked his with 42-strand, I understand). I occasionally go that route (but usually stick to 20s).
@drummersinger5324 agree on a lot of drums...the 4160 COB Gretsch don't sound right without a 42 strand...if you want Bonham on a 402 you need big snare...but an Acro...stock just sounds right
Have you tried the supralight they make. They have a few different depths, I bought the 14x 6.5 and put pure sound 30 strand snare wires on it and a new evens genera dry head and wow. They are like 200 bucks brand new.
Dyna sonic is SOOOOO crisp and staccato that you gotta want that sound. Even with looser wire settings it doesn't have the 'sag' that long snare wires have (DS snare wires are shorter than normal, coupled with the horizontal tension of the carriage, and the sound is abrupt). I'm into a slightly sloppier sound, so I would lean Powertone between those two. COB rocks too!
Joel, I have a super sensitive snare, which at the time I loved. I still use it from time to time. However, the general drumming community seems to believe it is of lesser value then other Ludwig snare (value being sound quality and overall build). What is your take on the value of this drum? I will also say they are available on the web for a lower cost then the other Ludwig snares.
As far as I can tell I think the lower market value of SS drums (compared to Supras) isn't so much to do with sound or performance, but the awkward parallel mechanism that extends so far out from the drum that it is nearly impossible to find an appropriate case for it. So many that I see have been damaged, even though Ludwig put a bar around the assembly to protect it. As for the sound quality I haven't played a SS in a couple of decades, honestly (used to own one when I was in high school, but don't trust my memory of that drum to make a qualified comment on its sound). I'd frankly like to try one again, particularly since I really dig the extended wire Mastercraft snare drums of early 1980s Tama. The thing to remember with extended wire snare drums is that they really have to be set up properly to perform well. The wires MUST be drawn up flush with the bottom head, perhaps a little higher than the snare bed, but not much (the 'bend' of extended wires pulled higher than the snare bed isn't a responsive sound). If the wires hang below the snare bed even a small amount the sound will never be other than rattly. Often this results when the mechanism takes a hit, which is easy to do when you can't find a good case for the drum.
I'm hoping you might be able to help me out. I have a 5 x 14 Ludwig snare serial# 671207. I was told that there was no way my snare was brass. My snare does not have the crimped bed. My snare has almost no pitting at all, it looks very similar to the super you have as far as appearance. P83 throw off with Ludwig stamp. I never tried to weigh it before watching your video. My drum is missing the internal muffler and "bat" throw. It weighs 9.4 pounds. Could i possibly have a brass shell "super sensitive" from 1969? I have owned this drum since 1993. You play very well. Thanks in advance
It is a Supraphonic? LM400? It's from 1969 given that serial number. The chrome should be practically flawless (no hint of pitting) if the shell is brass. The lugs will still pit, but not the shell (at least none that I have seen). I used to own a 1970 that had absolutely FLAWLESS chrome... BUT is was Ludalloy (sticker on the inside and lightweight). Not sure how they were able to make that work when most pit like crazy, but there are a few other there (some claim those drums used shells made for Ludwig by Premier, but I've never been able to confirm any such claims, though they persist). 9.4lbs is pretty heavy for an aluminum drum (unfortunately a magnet tells you nothing, since it's not attracted to aluminum alloys either). Definitely makes me wonder.... Is there a "BR" stamped into the outside of the shell around the muffler or badge? There were some COB Supras made during the 70s that were marked thus, but I don't know if they did that in '69. Also, is there a Ludalloy sticker inside the drum or perhaps an inked stamp that says "anti-galvanic" (or something like that). If so, then it's aluminum based, but given the weight I would wonder. As a last resort you could remove a lug and careful scratch a very small portion of chrome from around the lug mounting holes to see the color of the metal underneath... the brass will be distinctively yellow, while aluminum will not. You can then put the lug back on and no harm done. I hope that helps!
@@drumdotpizza Thanks so much for your reply. After i messaged you, i went a little crazy looking up specs to the different Ludwig snares from the late 60's. I discovered that mine is a super sensitive that has been modified. it has a 3/8 inch hole on the butt end of the snare. I always thought that this was another (another?) breather hole. I was wrong. It is a hole that held the upper part of the crazy throw mechanism the snare originally came with. Someone replaced it with a p83. The snare has no stamps or stickers. The snare has no pitting. Minor pitting on the sides of the lugs. Even if it is ludalloy and not brass, it is a sweet drum and sounds exactly how i need it to sound. Thanks again.
I have never heard about a black nickel finish for the Super Ludwig -- all were chrome so far as I know. The black beauty that Ludwig reintroduced in the late 1970s was brass, seamless 'acoustic-perfect' shell design (just not aluminum but the same mold/form as Supra/Super Sensitive/Acrolilte).
I've heard the story that (allegedly) Beverly/Premier provided some shells to Ludwig during the late 60s for Supra production, but if true those were supposed to have been superbly chromed and didn't pit as much as the American shells (same factory apparently did chrome grill work for Rolls Royce at the time). Assuming that's true (and I don't assume that it is as little evidence seems to exist to support it) then my horribly pitted '66 Supra in this video wouldn't have used one of the English shells, but straight Chicago! Of course I absolutely LOVE stories like this. Do you know of additional information to support the assertion? The idea doesn't offend me, actually (much as I love Ludwig) -- Ludwig was working overtime to meet production in the mid-late 60s, so any additional suppliers capable of providing product to their specs would likely have been employed as needed. I just haven't been able to find more than anecdotal support for that claim. I'd love to know more. Please share if you know! And thanks so much for chiming in!!!
@@drumdotpizza I recently got a 5,5x14 Premier COA (not a Beverley...but the Premier model..Cosmic maybe), 8 deco style lugs...It's in the ball park of both and Acro and Supra but doesn't sound like either as well...hard to explain. The "bonk" is different...and there's more ring...a killer snare none the less
Hey bro! Can I pick your brain on something. You know on the Supra's how the bearing edges sort of fold inwards, well on mine, I have like a few little lines that sort of run down the middle of them, almost looks like stress marks or something, but not sure how exactly to explain it. It's not from being dropped or bent or anything, but do you know what I mean at all? I was hoping if not I could send you a couple pics. I'm just trying to find out what exactly it could be from, and if it might have any affect on anything. Cheers.
Same shell, yes. Acro has an aluminum finish or (in the 80s) a grey powdercoat finish with an orange peel texture, and in the 90s the "Black Galaxy" powdercoat finish. Supra and SS are chrome plated (often pitted from the reaction between the shell alloy and the chrome). 10 Imperial lugs on the Supra and SS -- 8 'Classic' (bowtie) lugs on the Acro. All have great tone and response. I find the 10 luggers have more refined tuning while the 8 lug Acro is a bit punchier in the mids with a more raw timbre (in a glorious way -- I really dig the Acrolite!). The chrome of the Supra/SS adds mass to the shell giving a little more focus and LF definition to an otherwise lightweight shell (and more lugs adds mass too). The odd 80s orange peel grey powdercoat version is a dryer sound, I think because of the texture of the powdercoat (which is inside and out). As a pure player's drum one of my favorite all-round snare drums is the 90s Black Galaxy Acrolite. The black galaxy finish (inside and out) adds mass like the chrome drums, giving more weight to the sound, and the 8-lug arrangement makes it a bit more raw/aggressive. The snare beds give it broad tuning range with excellent wire response, so it really responds well to head choice and tuning/muffling variance. It's just hard to go wrong with one of those. I can take or leave the Black Galaxy finish, but those are fantastic players!
I would love to do that comparison, but don't have either drum, unfortunately. Well... I DO have a late 70s black beauty, actually, but it was in a house fire in 1988 and the shell (sitting on its side at the time) warped into an oval (and all the hardware except the butt and the part of the strainer that actually attached to the shell melted away entirely! Over time I bent it back into usable shape and put new hardware on it. it looks really cool, and sounds really cool... but certainly not a useful example of a late 70s black beauty.
@@Uzziel_lay_drums You are correct! I should have said something about that, but didn't. Yes, the 'layers' on the sides are of a slightly different size between the two drums. And yes, I am sure they casting is thicker/heavier (they are on another L&L snare that I have), though I didn't take his drum apart to determine such differences. Would have been very thorough of me to include this, but I didn't. I wonder how much overall weight difference can be contributed to the weight difference in the older style Imperials? The Super was heavier after all.... hmmm...
I generally use 400 for bottom head of snare drum regardless of what the top head is doing. Adjust wires to taste (the tension on the wires will need to be adjusted to match the tension of the batter).
Not professionally (that is, not for hire... I've done many for friends, and regularly service my own drums, of course). What is wrong with the drum? That is, what, other than a good cleaning do you think it needs (out of round, dents, rechroming....? While I don't do such work for hire, depending on what it needs it might make good subject matter for a video. And I will always happily recommend my buddy, Jon Zoog, at Dallas Drum (.com) for any drum related work you may have (building, modifying, restoring). He does all the significant work on my drums (edges, refinishing, etc. Anything above normal maintenance).
@@drumdotpizza Thanks Joel for your response. Its definitely in need of a good cleaning. I replaced the throw off and butt plate but would like the original fixed. Maybe some bearing edge work also. The shell is in pretty good shape. Let me know if it’s a good subject for a video. Thanks again
Only when logging/recalling tunings, or for matching tunings as in this video. I have a good ear for pitch, so the Tune Bot isn't really necessary for matching, though I use it anyway just to be sure for such comparisons. When tuning in general I don't bother with a Tune Bot, but it is extremely helpful for recalling tunings that I was particularly happy with. Thanks for your question and for being here!
I've always thought the aluminum is an all-around better sounding drum than the brass. The brass drums are expensive because they are comparatively rare. The Rogers brass dynasonics are not expensive because they made so darn many of them. If you need the sound of brass then you have to get your hands on one because you can't get than sound from aluminum, but the aluminum is so versatile and can do so much that it just covers a lot more ground sonically than the brass drum.
Agreed... If I could have only one it'd be the aluminum Supra (or even an Acrolite!). Lacks a bit of the LF punch on lower tunings compared with the heavier brass shell, but that can be augmented with some basic processing when mixed. But both is best!! ;)
The super Ludwig being brass will sound more exciting…..However in a song mix, the aluminum Supraphonic will more likely blend in better with the mix. …..That said, either drum will be good in a studio and both can work well
Holy smokes, I thought it was just an early old badge supraphonic, but I have a super Ludwig 🤯Not that I ever intended to sell it anyway. Thanks for the info. I'll have to check for that "wfl" stamp. I put 20 strands on it anyway 🤷♂️😂 Seems to work.
I also prefer the high tuning of the Super between the two comparisons. And that's not just because I prefer the high tuning of my own Super 😂 On the flipside, the Supra sounds better tuned low. Seems like the Super -- or your friend's Super, at least -- is better suited for higher tunings.
Ha!! Love it!!! Congrats on your discovery! That's a valuable drum, so be nice to it. You might measure the width of the flattest portion of the snare beds and select wires that don't exceed that measurement. I'd say you'll find 16 or 12 strand to behave quite nicely. 20s won't be bad (Bryan's Super had 20s on it when he loaned it to me for the video), but I found them to be a little rattly, which usually isn't bad for backbeats, but I do like the ability to make them a tad more crisp and responsive as well. The 20s just felt rattly right up to the point of choking the wires, which didn't give me the control I like. I don't know how consistent the crimped beds were, so the measurement might be worth doing. Enjoy!! (Glad I could help! ;)
So fascinating to get your perspective! To me the higher tuning revealed the narrowness of the snare bed (more of a hollow type of snare response, more raw, less articulate) which is a very cool, but very different sound to the greater refinement of the acousti-perfect snare beds of the latter design. I generally prefer the latter (so the Supra in the higher tuning), but you like the throatier aggression of the more vintage tonality! I LOVE IT!! This is why I think it is useful for people to understand why drums sound like they do... so they can make knowledgeable choices about the drums they play and how to tune them/set them up to give them the tone and response they prefer. It's art!! Oh, and I preferred the Super in the low tunings over the Supra. I preferred the Supra in the other two (toss up for medium tuning, I guess), but LOVED the punch of the Super tuned low. Great stuff!!!
Oh, and there's no guarantee on the WFL stamp, BTW. Ludwig used all those strainers and butts up over the years after reacquiring the Ludwig name before retooling for the script "Ludwig" logo. I imagine they made Supers with both throughout the production run. Should definitely be a P-83 strainer though, regardless of logo.
@@drumdotpizza Thanks for the tips, brother. And it seems like we respond to different characteristics between the two models at different tunings. To me in higher tunings, the snare ring of the Supra had more of a lilting quality that I found a bit distracting ( at least through the recording and final mix; it may sound different actually sitting at the kit )..... and for the low tuning, the ring of the Super had somewhat of a warble. If I want my Super to go low, I'll throw on a combo of a 14 head _and_ a big fat snare drum skin, the thickest one with the green logo on it. The sound of the snares here didn't particularly stand out to me. Again, in the room, they probably would have. As far as 20 stands on the Super....let me check my Amazon history... 🤯🤯😳 Oh wow, it's actually a THIRTY strand 🤣🤣🤣 ( that's funny, I bought Puresound Super 30 series snares for my Ludwig before I knew she was a Super 😂 ) ....but anyway, the trick I use for cutting down on excessive buzz while playing, was dropping a couple of drum dots inside the drum on the snareside head. Other than that, I like my snares tensioned pretty tightly, unless I want to go for a particularly loose marching effect or a Mardis Gras/New Orleans sound -- which doesn't happen very often. All this talk of Supers and Supras, I want to head to the church and look at and play my Super. Even though I've had her for ....at least 5 or 6 years by now ( rescued from a DUMPSTER, no less...during a major cleanout from another church that was going to reopen....I didn't even know what it was at first, I just saw decent looking drums about to be closed up in a construction dumpster and could not allow that to happen ) I feel like I found a new drum all over again 😂
Ahh... is that the brass drum has more controlled overtones, or is it the much lighter weight shell of the Supra has less fundamental than the heavier brass Super? I would argue (for grins) that the overtone content is similar between the two, but the much heavier brass shell is louder overall with much greater fundamental (LF) tone, making the highs a lower percentage of the overall sound. Not trying to split hairs of pick on you, btw. This is just in line with things I talk about in other videos about why drums sound the way they sound (particularly my video on the effect of mass on a drum's sound). But yes, I understand what you're saying and agree... I wish I owned that brass Super!! Lovely drum.
I assumed I'd like the brass drum better but thought that the Supraphonic sounded more balanced and in control. Perhaps in the mix the Super Ludwig would shine but in this context the Supraphonic sounded more musical in easier to record. Great video!
Thanks so much for your comment! Yes, between these two drums the Supra seems more refined and broadly applicable, but the Super Ludwig definitely has a cool vibe to it, a bit more attitude somehow. Would be interesting to know how much this particular Super Ludwig represents to the model overall (I've had some Supras that were just funky sounding, so there is always some variance, particularly over time with differing treatment/care.
Now I need to find a 5x14 COB Supra to compare with the Super Ludwig! That would be truly interesting (I have a COB Supra, but it's 6.5x14).
I own a 2022 Black Beauty and a 2022 Supraphonic. I prefer the Supraphonic.
@@drumdotpizzaI’m looking forward for the review of it please thanks 😮
Very cool video comparison of the two drums. Yeah, you could hear the difference between the two but in the context of a mix I doubt you'd hear the difference. A few years ago I picked up a mid 70s 5x14 Supraphonic with the olive badge. On the inside it does have a sticker saying it was the Lud-Alloy version of the drum. You didn't mention it so I'm curious what you may know about it. John Bonham supposedly liked the 6.5x14 version which he said he liked better than the brass version of the drum. Anyway, my Supraphonic sounds great and I'm happy with what I found. Thanks for the video!!!
There isn't much difference that wouldn't be easily addressed with some basic processing, true. For their differences there's a lot of similarity too!
Hey Joel! Really loving the content lately. I’m a big drum nerd and can watch these types of videos all day. I’ve just filmed a bunch of snare demos that I’ll be releasing in the new year, most of them are also Ludwig. It was really interesting to hear them all side by side.
Thanks for your kind comment! And please post a link when you post those videos! I'd love to hear them.
I like the Ludalloy Supraphonic much more, which surprises me, since I had both and I would have expected, that I'd like the COB more. But the Ludalloy sounds more modern, controlled, snappier and "fresh" to my ears. Great work!
I really liked both of these snare drums. For me, I really enjoyed hearing the low tuning and the high tuning of both drums. 👍🏻👍🏻
Just as with my personal snares, I found the brass to have a bit more 'honk' and the aluminum to be a bit drier. Great comparison vid. Either one would be welcome in any drummer's arsenal!
I wish I owned both!
I have really wondered how different both snares sound
because John Bonham palyed Ludwig's "Supraphonic" snare!
I think both of the snares sound super. I was so happy while you were playing the snares!
I really really really thank you so much!
Pretty sure Bonham’s Supra is a 6”. It’s a bit deeper tone.
Ludwig makes the best snare drum. Always have and always will
HELLO JOEL! Superb video, excellent picture quality and sound! Wonderful comparison of the two! I bought my first Ludwig Supraphonic 400 brand new in 1971 from Manny's Music in Manhattan! I still have it and believe it or not I am still using the original snares with the patent number on it! I only had to replace the top rim and the muffler in all those years! REMO Vintage X batter, REMO reso!
As far as the low medium and high tuning I really loved the tone of the low tuning however my wrists prefer to play on a highly tuned skin, it just gives me an easier time doing my doubles, paradiddles, quick rolls etc!
Hands down I prefer the sound of the Supraphonic aluminum shelled snare drum.
Love your channel Joel, your recordings/demos sound amazing! I appreciate the knowledge shared, also your drumming sounds great each time! If you have any recorded work you played on or shows i would love to hear it!
Thank you! The vast majority of stuff I've played on has been independent records and library (licensing) music for commercials, training videos, etc... whatever people would license the music for. I don't really have a comprehensive list of things, and not sure how easy it would be to access those projects if I did, since (I imagine) most are out of print by now (I haven't had my commercial studio since 2015).
I work in my private studio now, putting tracks on stuff people send me mostly, and I really don't know much about these projects. I should really put together some kind of list, though. Would be helpful for times like this when people ask to hear stuff I've played on.
I'll see what I can come up with. Thanks for your kind words!
Another great video Joel.
I think an interesting comparison would be made between the Ludwig Supraphonic and Ludwig Supersensitive models, as that might give insight into the merits or pitfalls of a parallel snare mechanism.
Agreed! I don't own a Super Sensitive, and haven't for probably 25 years. I didn't love it back then (primarily, as I recall, because of the awkward mechanism that stuck off both sides of the shell so far... hard to find a case for it), so I sold mine, though I have since fallen in love with Tama's roller bed strainer snares (Mastercraft, etc. made throughout the 1980s). These have snares longer than the drum is wide, so the entire snare side head has wires on it, right off the edge (like the SS, though active from only one side instead of parallel mechanism). I wonder (now... all these years later) how similar the behavior might be between these two designs (and compared to the Supra as well).
Maybe I'll keep my eyes out for a good Super Sensitive for comparison! Thanks for the idea!
@@drumdotpizza
The 14 x 6.5 model was used by Phil Collins, Bil Burford and Nico McBrain to name a few. And for good reason; they offer increased sensitivity and a "wetter" sound by the very nature of the design.
To my ears anyway.
By the way, Sonor also used parallel snare mechanisms on their Signature series, as well as the Phonic Throw-Off II.
And given what you have experienced with those snares, you know how sensitive they can be.
Any such comparison would be highly informative.
Thanks again!
@@drumdotpizza
PS: is that a t-shirt of Red?
@@drumdotpizza I had a supersensitive and hated the snare buzz (This was like 30 yrs ago). I almost bought another last yr, until I remembered the snare buzz thingy :-D
another great video would be to compare that supra to low tier drums from ludwig pearl and etc. to find what can get you close or highlight the pros and cons of each one in context
Well done
..both sound great..l liked the aluminum shell a touch better..😊
Love the little rolls before some of those backbeats 😊
Both drums sound wonderful, playing does too!
Great video! Thanks much! Supraphonic-phile here. I have a great one with the pits and such that I traded for at Guitar Center (what a STEAL), but with some weird features/mysteries that you could probably solve if you saw it. I'll put it on my channel and link it.
Happy to have a look!!
I have both of them and play the Ludalloy snare a tad more often. They both sound great. Thanks for your very informative video and your tasteful drumming. Best regards from Germany...
Heck with the snares, that floor tom is fricking awesome! Great video. I thought the supraphonic snares were steel shells, thanks for correcting that and also explains why it sounds close to my galaxy burst “blackrolite”.
The 'blackrolite' is perhaps my favorite desert island snare (if I could have only one...). It does pretty much what the Supra does, but its 8 lugs make it a bit punchier and it lives better at lower tunings, IMO than a Supra. And I'm convinced the black galaxy powdercoat adds enough mass to increase the LF response a bit as well as mellows the character of the drum overall (compared to a Supra), so it can be tuned/muffled to mimic almost any drum out there (particularly with appropriate miking and processing). Perhaps THE most versatile snare on the market, and a steal at the going price (even though that has increased in the past couple of years -- used to buy them for $125 all day long, now they're $225+).
Still, a killer deal for a killer drum!
Hey, there's my ol Cobby!
While I prefer my Ludalloy 400's for most things, the COB has a great low end when muffled up too. You get a sense of it from the low tuning you showed. Great job man, love it!
Thanks for letting me use it for this comparison, man! Mucho appreciated.
So... have you had a chance to put that Bell Brass I dropped off through the ringer yet?
@@drumdotpizza it's on there today. I keep asking myself "is it hype or is this one of the best snares I've ever played?"
the supraphonic is perfect i have mine from 67 and i love it best sound ever!
What type of Snare Wires do you use?
I have the new super ludwig 5x14 and has no snare beds and nickel over brass hardware.I feel like it definitely has that supra rimshot vibe and I also have a black galaxy 5x14 acrolite that I feel doesn't have it.I agree with just about everything with you on your comparisons and of course we have way different drums.Also I noticed playing live, the Acro goes way lower and punchy in live rooms(or outside) while the super ludwig does so in small rooms.Might also be brass is louder and brighter but its all interesting when there's a chrome coating too.Could be just me.Loving the videos!
I have a 66, too. My serial number starts with 3. Same script as yours. I was too lazy to get to a light and see the date although I believe it was October????? Great video.
Very interesting how transparent the overtones sound on the supraphonic compared to the super. I am now glad that I own the supraphonic rather than the super.
You’re the man Joel! Could you share some of your tunebot settings?
This is seriously very good content. I like it a lot ! Keep up the good work !!!
Nice T-Shirt by the way ;)...
Much appreciated!!
The Supraphonic seemed more "alive" at all three tunings. Perhaps this is due to it ringing more. Great drum. Thanks for sharing!
The Supra is lighter than the Super. This what you're hearing. I love the heavier shell for the lower tuning (greater low end 'punch'). But yes, you're exactly right -- lighter drums provide brighter tones.
@@drumdotpizza Thanks for the reply and sharing the info. Happy Drumming!
Both are killer! Great video!
Great detail and analysis!
Great Video!
so cool. they really do have quite a bit different character
They do indeed! I wish I could separate all the variables (rolled/welded construction, brass vs. aluminum, snare bed design) and see what each one, alone, does to the sound of the drum. Collectively, however, the difference in performance is striking.
I'm LOVING the authority of the Super when tuned low!
Hey Joel! Nice comparison video! Suprisingly, the 66 seems to have more low end to it (for my ears), even though brass is known to be the metal with more low end and less high frequencies. I guess it's because the brass version is heavier than the aluminium one. I really like that you are comparing a seamless and a welded shell. I know there is a big cult around seamless vs. welded shells out there, but I never thought it makes much of a difference. Given identical thickness, bearing edges etc. a seam shouldn't make a noticeable difference. Maybe a topic for a future video? Cheers mate!
That is an interesting observation... what speakers are you listening on? I ask, because my observations about the Super is that (in the low tuning) it has much more low end punch than the aluminum Supra. In the medium tuning its just louder than the aluminum with a tad less wire response, and in the high tuning the Super Ludwig's wires sound a little choked, giving the drum a little throatier, raw, hollow tonality? None of this in a bad way, of course, just two different, but very useful sounds!
Like I said in the video, I wish I owned them both!
@@drumdotpizza I'm listening on Presonus Eris E5 with a Sub8. I gave the comparison another go. At medium and high tuning I would still say, that the alu is deeper. I have to agree with you on the lower tuning. But I think it's because the low tuning is a bit out of the comfort zone of the 66. It's sounds more muddy and chocked than the brass. That's why it lacks body.
Never owned a Supraphonic but about 25 years ago got a hold of an aluminum alloy (I assume) over wood Ludwig snare.Very nice shiny finish. Dont know what it was called. Sounded great and got some compliments from audience members on it. They were not drummers themselves just liked the tone. Do you happen to know what that drum was? Sold in the 70s. But like to know what it was called. Havent been able to find it on line. Thx.
A Ludwig model L600 perhaps? The early ones had B/O badges and bowtie lugs, but that later switched to B/W badges and Rocker/Standard lugs (though I believe kept the same model number). Originally natural interior, later granitone interior. I have one with the granitone interior, and it is a nice drum, though it was marketed to be the cheaper wooden snare drum (before they switched manufacturing of the cheaper drums to Asia).
The wrap on those, btw, is actual sheet metal (not sure what alloy) not chromed plastic wrap as is done today. If you ever rewrap one take care not to bleed yourself with all the cuts you can get trying to remove that sheet metal wrap!
@@drumdotpizza once had a 70's COW Slingerland kit...notoriously hard to get the wrap off...I took the lugs off a spare tom and left it my storage room that used to get super cold...the heating and cooling of the metal and expansion eventually cracked the glue and it came off on it's own.
Cool demo. Would like to know the differences in the Supraphonic and the acrolite shell’s beside the lugs. Is the aluminum different between the two. Also would like to know your Tunebot settings on these two drums.
Thanks for the questions!
Ludwig's Supraphonic, Super Sensitive, and Acrolite all share the exact same shell. Same alloy, same shape/form, same raw shell... Exact. Same.
From there the raw shell goes to plating (Supras and SSs) or finishing (Acrolites have had various finishes over the years, originally rather natural, later powder coated).
The Supras and SSs were drilled for 10 imperial lugs (same hole pattern as bowties, BTW) and their respective strainer/butt assemblies. Acrolites got 8 bowtie lugs and P-85/P-32 butt.
The 10 lug arrangement allows for more refined tuning for a more refined sound. Acrolite's 8-lug design is a bit punchier in the mids, IMO. I love the slightly raw sense I get from 8 lug snare drums. Exceptional snare response on all drums in broad tuning ranges given the wide and shallow design of the snare beds.
The Tune-Bot settings for both drums were:
Snare side - 400 (this was constant for the batter tunings)
Batter high - 300
Batter medium - 270
Batter low - 200
Thanks so much for your questions and for being here!
@@drumdotpizza Really appreciate the answers. I kinda felt guilty about asking so many. Was really wondering about the acro and 402 shell differences. And your tuning sounded great and was I interested to see how each tuning affected the differences between the aluminum and brass shell’s and at what tune-bot setting. You have a new subscriber so keep it up for all us nerds out here!
Beautiful drums however, tuning down low does not appear to be they're strong point sonically speaking! I'm looking for vintage and I think the 6.5 Supra will be the way I go based on what I've heard today, so thank you!
Hi. Thanks for all the cool Supra info. I love these drums. I've had 5"s and 6.5" and presently I have a 3 year old Super which is my first and only one of these models ever. Now for me nothing sounds better on any snare drum but 30 or more snare wires. Your drums barely sound like snare drums to me with those low number of strands. I use a 42 Sabian blend on my Super and be damned about snare beds in any snare actually. I also use a wood snare side hoop on my Supra and that adds dryness to the snare buzz and a lot of warmth at same time. It really sounds fabulous at any tuning range but I always prefer med/high on batter and really tight on snare side. Thanks for the video and info presented. I like your playing too.
Just make sure you got wide enough beds for those 42-strand wires! Lots of beds aren't wide enough, and the outer strands just rattle away. Supras have wide beds though, so it works (John Bonham liked his with 42-strand, I understand). I occasionally go that route (but usually stick to 20s).
20 strands makes a snare drum sound small.
@@drummersinger5324 Idk...Supras maybe...but Acros always seem to sound the best with those plastic ended Ludwig 16 strand wires.
@@bryanherward4679 Sixteen strands sound . Never going to work for my ears.
@drummersinger5324 agree on a lot of drums...the 4160 COB Gretsch don't sound right without a 42 strand...if you want Bonham on a 402 you need big snare...but an Acro...stock just sounds right
The Super Ludwig has different Imperial lugs than the Supra.
Have you tried the supralight they make. They have a few different depths, I bought the 14x 6.5 and put pure sound 30 strand snare wires on it and a new evens genera dry head and wow. They are like 200 bucks brand new.
Great video, I have a 69 superphonic and was wondering what tune bot settings were you using for the high settings?
Nice!! Did you use a drum dial on the tuning? What sort of tension on each side?
any thoughts on Rogers Dynasonic and Powertone COB ?? cheers !
Dyna sonic is SOOOOO crisp and staccato that you gotta want that sound. Even with looser wire settings it doesn't have the 'sag' that long snare wires have (DS snare wires are shorter than normal, coupled with the horizontal tension of the carriage, and the sound is abrupt). I'm into a slightly sloppier sound, so I would lean Powertone between those two. COB rocks too!
@drumdotpizza, cool video. Could you remember the tune bot numbers for the medium and high tuning? Also, how you tune the reso head? Thanks
Joel, I have a super sensitive snare, which at the time I loved. I still use it from time to time. However, the general drumming community seems to believe it is of lesser value then other Ludwig snare (value being sound quality and overall build). What is your take on the value of this drum? I will also say they are available on the web for a lower cost then the other Ludwig snares.
As far as I can tell I think the lower market value of SS drums (compared to Supras) isn't so much to do with sound or performance, but the awkward parallel mechanism that extends so far out from the drum that it is nearly impossible to find an appropriate case for it. So many that I see have been damaged, even though Ludwig put a bar around the assembly to protect it.
As for the sound quality I haven't played a SS in a couple of decades, honestly (used to own one when I was in high school, but don't trust my memory of that drum to make a qualified comment on its sound). I'd frankly like to try one again, particularly since I really dig the extended wire Mastercraft snare drums of early 1980s Tama.
The thing to remember with extended wire snare drums is that they really have to be set up properly to perform well. The wires MUST be drawn up flush with the bottom head, perhaps a little higher than the snare bed, but not much (the 'bend' of extended wires pulled higher than the snare bed isn't a responsive sound). If the wires hang below the snare bed even a small amount the sound will never be other than rattly. Often this results when the mechanism takes a hit, which is easy to do when you can't find a good case for the drum.
I'm hoping you might be able to help me out. I have a 5 x 14 Ludwig snare serial# 671207. I was told that there was no way my snare was brass. My snare does not have the crimped bed. My snare has almost no pitting at all, it looks very similar to the super you have as far as appearance. P83 throw off with Ludwig stamp. I never tried to weigh it before watching your video. My drum is missing the internal muffler and "bat" throw. It weighs 9.4 pounds.
Could i possibly have a brass shell "super sensitive" from 1969?
I have owned this drum since 1993.
You play very well.
Thanks in advance
It is a Supraphonic? LM400? It's from 1969 given that serial number.
The chrome should be practically flawless (no hint of pitting) if the shell is brass. The lugs will still pit, but not the shell (at least none that I have seen).
I used to own a 1970 that had absolutely FLAWLESS chrome... BUT is was Ludalloy (sticker on the inside and lightweight). Not sure how they were able to make that work when most pit like crazy, but there are a few other there (some claim those drums used shells made for Ludwig by Premier, but I've never been able to confirm any such claims, though they persist).
9.4lbs is pretty heavy for an aluminum drum (unfortunately a magnet tells you nothing, since it's not attracted to aluminum alloys either). Definitely makes me wonder....
Is there a "BR" stamped into the outside of the shell around the muffler or badge? There were some COB Supras made during the 70s that were marked thus, but I don't know if they did that in '69.
Also, is there a Ludalloy sticker inside the drum or perhaps an inked stamp that says "anti-galvanic" (or something like that). If so, then it's aluminum based, but given the weight I would wonder.
As a last resort you could remove a lug and careful scratch a very small portion of chrome from around the lug mounting holes to see the color of the metal underneath... the brass will be distinctively yellow, while aluminum will not. You can then put the lug back on and no harm done.
I hope that helps!
@@drumdotpizza Thanks so much for your reply. After i messaged you, i went a little crazy looking up specs to the different Ludwig snares from the late 60's. I discovered that mine is a super sensitive that has been modified. it has a 3/8 inch hole on the butt end of the snare. I always thought that this was another (another?) breather hole. I was wrong. It is a hole that held the upper part of the crazy throw mechanism the snare originally came with. Someone replaced it with a p83. The snare has no stamps or stickers. The snare has no pitting. Minor pitting on the sides of the lugs. Even if it is ludalloy and not brass, it is a sweet drum and sounds exactly how i need it to sound.
Thanks again.
I like the Supra at the higher tuning, the same at medium, and the Super at low.
Nerve knee they were 2 different drums. Did they ever have a super black beauty
I have never heard about a black nickel finish for the Super Ludwig -- all were chrome so far as I know. The black beauty that Ludwig reintroduced in the late 1970s was brass, seamless 'acoustic-perfect' shell design (just not aluminum but the same mold/form as Supra/Super Sensitive/Acrolilte).
And Joe, that Superphonic shell isn't Ludwig or American. Its a Beverly shell from Yorkshire England.
I've heard the story that (allegedly) Beverly/Premier provided some shells to Ludwig during the late 60s for Supra production, but if true those were supposed to have been superbly chromed and didn't pit as much as the American shells (same factory apparently did chrome grill work for Rolls Royce at the time). Assuming that's true (and I don't assume that it is as little evidence seems to exist to support it) then my horribly pitted '66 Supra in this video wouldn't have used one of the English shells, but straight Chicago!
Of course I absolutely LOVE stories like this. Do you know of additional information to support the assertion? The idea doesn't offend me, actually (much as I love Ludwig) -- Ludwig was working overtime to meet production in the mid-late 60s, so any additional suppliers capable of providing product to their specs would likely have been employed as needed. I just haven't been able to find more than anecdotal support for that claim. I'd love to know more. Please share if you know!
And thanks so much for chiming in!!!
@@drumdotpizza I recently got a 5,5x14 Premier COA (not a Beverley...but the Premier model..Cosmic maybe), 8 deco style lugs...It's in the ball park of both and Acro and Supra but doesn't sound like either as well...hard to explain. The "bonk" is different...and there's more ring...a killer snare none the less
Hey bro! Can I pick your brain on something. You know on the Supra's how the bearing edges sort of fold inwards, well on mine, I have like a few little lines that sort of run down the middle of them, almost looks like stress marks or something, but not sure how exactly to explain it. It's not from being dropped or bent or anything, but do you know what I mean at all? I was hoping if not I could send you a couple pics. I'm just trying to find out what exactly it could be from, and if it might have any affect on anything. Cheers.
Has the age of the brass altered the sound ?
I was thinking when you said aluminum with the supra. I was like then isn't it just an acrolight basically? 🤔
Yes, with chrome plated shell, 10 lugs instead of 8 and imperial lugs instead of bowtie lugs
Same shell, yes. Acro has an aluminum finish or (in the 80s) a grey powdercoat finish with an orange peel texture, and in the 90s the "Black Galaxy" powdercoat finish. Supra and SS are chrome plated (often pitted from the reaction between the shell alloy and the chrome). 10 Imperial lugs on the Supra and SS -- 8 'Classic' (bowtie) lugs on the Acro.
All have great tone and response. I find the 10 luggers have more refined tuning while the 8 lug Acro is a bit punchier in the mids with a more raw timbre (in a glorious way -- I really dig the Acrolite!). The chrome of the Supra/SS adds mass to the shell giving a little more focus and LF definition to an otherwise lightweight shell (and more lugs adds mass too).
The odd 80s orange peel grey powdercoat version is a dryer sound, I think because of the texture of the powdercoat (which is inside and out).
As a pure player's drum one of my favorite all-round snare drums is the 90s Black Galaxy Acrolite. The black galaxy finish (inside and out) adds mass like the chrome drums, giving more weight to the sound, and the 8-lug arrangement makes it a bit more raw/aggressive. The snare beds give it broad tuning range with excellent wire response, so it really responds well to head choice and tuning/muffling variance. It's just hard to go wrong with one of those.
I can take or leave the Black Galaxy finish, but those are fantastic players!
Nice video.... Could you do one of the old 70's black beauty and modern Black Beauty after the 2k's
I would love to do that comparison, but don't have either drum, unfortunately.
Well... I DO have a late 70s black beauty, actually, but it was in a house fire in 1988 and the shell (sitting on its side at the time) warped into an oval (and all the hardware except the butt and the part of the strainer that actually attached to the shell melted away entirely! Over time I bent it back into usable shape and put new hardware on it. it looks really cool, and sounds really cool... but certainly not a useful example of a late 70s black beauty.
@@drumdotpizzathe lugs on the chrome over brass are different and heavier
@@Uzziel_lay_drums You are correct! I should have said something about that, but didn't. Yes, the 'layers' on the sides are of a slightly different size between the two drums. And yes, I am sure they casting is thicker/heavier (they are on another L&L snare that I have), though I didn't take his drum apart to determine such differences. Would have been very thorough of me to include this, but I didn't.
I wonder how much overall weight difference can be contributed to the weight difference in the older style Imperials? The Super was heavier after all.... hmmm...
What is you tuning for med and low tuning on tune bot. Top and bottom heads
I generally use 400 for bottom head of snare drum regardless of what the top head is doing. Adjust wires to taste (the tension on the wires will need to be adjusted to match the tension of the batter).
What's the setting for the medium tuning on tunebot for the batter and the reso side?
Hello Joel, I have a 1966 Supra Phonic that needs whipping back into shape.
Is that something that you do?
Not professionally (that is, not for hire... I've done many for friends, and regularly service my own drums, of course).
What is wrong with the drum? That is, what, other than a good cleaning do you think it needs (out of round, dents, rechroming....? While I don't do such work for hire, depending on what it needs it might make good subject matter for a video.
And I will always happily recommend my buddy, Jon Zoog, at Dallas Drum (.com) for any drum related work you may have (building, modifying, restoring). He does all the significant work on my drums (edges, refinishing, etc. Anything above normal maintenance).
@@drumdotpizza Thanks Joel for your response. Its definitely in need of a good cleaning. I replaced the throw off and butt plate but would like the original fixed. Maybe some bearing edge work also. The shell is in pretty good shape.
Let me know if it’s a good subject for a video.
Thanks again
do you use a tune bot or drum dial when tuning
Only when logging/recalling tunings, or for matching tunings as in this video. I have a good ear for pitch, so the Tune Bot isn't really necessary for matching, though I use it anyway just to be sure for such comparisons.
When tuning in general I don't bother with a Tune Bot, but it is extremely helpful for recalling tunings that I was particularly happy with.
Thanks for your question and for being here!
I've always thought the aluminum is an all-around better sounding drum than the brass. The brass drums are expensive because they are comparatively rare. The Rogers brass dynasonics are not expensive because they made so darn many of them. If you need the sound of brass then you have to get your hands on one because you can't get than sound from aluminum, but the aluminum is so versatile and can do so much that it just covers a lot more ground sonically than the brass drum.
Agreed... If I could have only one it'd be the aluminum Supra (or even an Acrolite!). Lacks a bit of the LF punch on lower tunings compared with the heavier brass shell, but that can be augmented with some basic processing when mixed.
But both is best!! ;)
The Best is ultra sensitive 14x8" metal of the 70.
They actually don't have the same hardware. Compare the lugs, they are slightly different.
I seem to be alone here but I prefer the super Ludwig!
The super Ludwig being brass will sound more exciting…..However in a song mix, the aluminum Supraphonic will more likely blend in better with the mix. …..That said, either drum will be good in a studio and both can work well
its very ringy in low tuning for some reason
Holy smokes, I thought it was just an early old badge supraphonic, but I have a super Ludwig 🤯Not that I ever intended to sell it anyway. Thanks for the info. I'll have to check for that "wfl" stamp.
I put 20 strands on it anyway 🤷♂️😂 Seems to work.
I also prefer the high tuning of the Super between the two comparisons. And that's not just because I prefer the high tuning of my own Super 😂 On the flipside, the Supra sounds better tuned low. Seems like the Super -- or your friend's Super, at least -- is better suited for higher tunings.
Ha!! Love it!!! Congrats on your discovery! That's a valuable drum, so be nice to it.
You might measure the width of the flattest portion of the snare beds and select wires that don't exceed that measurement. I'd say you'll find 16 or 12 strand to behave quite nicely. 20s won't be bad (Bryan's Super had 20s on it when he loaned it to me for the video), but I found them to be a little rattly, which usually isn't bad for backbeats, but I do like the ability to make them a tad more crisp and responsive as well. The 20s just felt rattly right up to the point of choking the wires, which didn't give me the control I like.
I don't know how consistent the crimped beds were, so the measurement might be worth doing.
Enjoy!! (Glad I could help! ;)
So fascinating to get your perspective! To me the higher tuning revealed the narrowness of the snare bed (more of a hollow type of snare response, more raw, less articulate) which is a very cool, but very different sound to the greater refinement of the acousti-perfect snare beds of the latter design. I generally prefer the latter (so the Supra in the higher tuning), but you like the throatier aggression of the more vintage tonality! I LOVE IT!!
This is why I think it is useful for people to understand why drums sound like they do... so they can make knowledgeable choices about the drums they play and how to tune them/set them up to give them the tone and response they prefer. It's art!!
Oh, and I preferred the Super in the low tunings over the Supra. I preferred the Supra in the other two (toss up for medium tuning, I guess), but LOVED the punch of the Super tuned low.
Great stuff!!!
Oh, and there's no guarantee on the WFL stamp, BTW. Ludwig used all those strainers and butts up over the years after reacquiring the Ludwig name before retooling for the script "Ludwig" logo. I imagine they made Supers with both throughout the production run.
Should definitely be a P-83 strainer though, regardless of logo.
@@drumdotpizza Thanks for the tips, brother. And it seems like we respond to different characteristics between the two models at different tunings. To me in higher tunings, the snare ring of the Supra had more of a lilting quality that I found a bit distracting ( at least through the recording and final mix; it may sound different actually sitting at the kit )..... and for the low tuning, the ring of the Super had somewhat of a warble. If I want my Super to go low, I'll throw on a combo of a 14 head _and_ a big fat snare drum skin, the thickest one with the green logo on it.
The sound of the snares here didn't particularly stand out to me. Again, in the room, they probably would have. As far as 20 stands on the Super....let me check my Amazon history... 🤯🤯😳 Oh wow, it's actually a THIRTY strand 🤣🤣🤣 ( that's funny, I bought Puresound Super 30 series snares for my Ludwig before I knew she was a Super 😂 ) ....but anyway, the trick I use for cutting down on excessive buzz while playing, was dropping a couple of drum dots inside the drum on the snareside head. Other than that, I like my snares tensioned pretty tightly, unless I want to go for a particularly loose marching effect or a Mardis Gras/New Orleans sound -- which doesn't happen very often.
All this talk of Supers and Supras, I want to head to the church and look at and play my Super. Even though I've had her for ....at least 5 or 6 years by now ( rescued from a DUMPSTER, no less...during a major cleanout from another church that was going to reopen....I didn't even know what it was at first, I just saw decent looking drums about to be closed up in a construction dumpster and could not allow that to happen ) I feel like I found a new drum all over again 😂
What head did you use?
Aquarian Texture Coated batter with Classic Clear Snare Side on bottom.
That Super Ludwig is not for me. Good to know. Curious to hear another one.
Superphonic 😮
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The super !
Hands down super in low tuningggg!!!!
The Super does not sound good, IMO, tuned low. I love my late 70’s Supra!
6 minutes
At the medium tuning, I didn't hear much of a difference at all. At the higher and lower tunings, I prefer the brass drum (more controlled overtones).
Ahh... is that the brass drum has more controlled overtones, or is it the much lighter weight shell of the Supra has less fundamental than the heavier brass Super? I would argue (for grins) that the overtone content is similar between the two, but the much heavier brass shell is louder overall with much greater fundamental (LF) tone, making the highs a lower percentage of the overall sound.
Not trying to split hairs of pick on you, btw. This is just in line with things I talk about in other videos about why drums sound the way they sound (particularly my video on the effect of mass on a drum's sound).
But yes, I understand what you're saying and agree... I wish I owned that brass Super!! Lovely drum.