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ACES Astronaut Helmet Visor for Adam Savage - Vacuum Forming Tutorial
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- Опубликовано: 10 окт 2018
- When a Mythbuster issues you a challenge, you rise to the occasion! Adam Savage needed a pair of visors for his ACES space suit costume for his NYCC 2018 incognito costume. Bill and Britt got to work using their brand new vacuum forming machine.
Links
Adam Savage's ACES Space Suit Costume
• Adam Savage Incognito ...
How to Dye PETG: Full Tutorial and Materials: • How to Tint a Visor - ...
Danquish's Snake Eyes
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Tools & Materials
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EpoxAcoat HT
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EpoxAmite HT
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T-Nuts - Amazon
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PET-G Plastic - Amazon
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Push the petg in with compressed air?
another material option is polycarbonate, also sold as makrolon
That fake laugh. D:
Remember to put in the link for Adams one day build using these visors. :) ruclips.net/video/8Td-YSEEKEM/видео.html&t
also you mention that video at 22:03 in this video. you could add popup link there.
Happy new year Bill and Britt, and thanks for sharing all that you do!
I think I might know why vacuum-forming the acrylic didn't exactly go according to plan.
It's possible you looked up TAP Plastic's datasheet for Acrylite FF extruded acrylic (which does say 290° to 320°F) but ended up using the Acrylite GP cell-cast acrylic (requiring 340° to 380°F) instead.
Extruded and cast acrylic are the first two categories listed on TAP's website under "Plastic Sheets" and even use identical images in their links: www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_sheets_rolls
The temperature ranges for both can be found under Thermoforming Conditions on Page 4 of this PDF:
www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/Tech%20Data-Thermo.pdf
Such a mixup could also explain other problems you faced, as cast acrylic suffers shrinkage to a greater degree and absorbs moisture more readily than does extruded acrylic.
Hope that helps!
I’ve been working in a plastic shop for a few years now. I’ve been the main vacuum former for all of our products. A few things I’d do for single parts like this to make it a bit easier.
While the baby powder seemed to work pretty well, another longer term solution is to put a compressed air system inline with your vacuum channels, when you switch your vac off, let the plastic harden (not too much depending on the plastic you are working with to prevent cracking, ex. Polystyrene) then engage the air system which works to release the plastic from the mould using the same channels the vacuum uses. Obviously just don’t use them both at the same time.
Also, a big component of vacuum forming is managing the heat distribution across the surface of the plastic.
So for such a deep negative ideally you would want different parts of the plastic sheet to be heated at different temperatures. (Usually far less in the middle to prevent thinning of the final product).
It’s a little tricky because you have such a relatively small heating solution, but a common solution is to have the different elements on their own thermostat and control system, so you can set each element to its own temp. Heating the plastic sheet proportionately to keep the best result as far as thickness.
But the main thing is thermoforming isn’t an exact science by any means. It’s all about dialing it in through practice.
Man, what an adventure!! So awesome to see how many different types of making goes into this one project. 3D printing, woodworking, metal working, power tools, hand tools, tinting, etc. They turned out great!
Thanks you guys!
Every guy I know that has a joint account with their significant other was caught sending inappropriate messages to other ladies. You must have really messed up for her to want to make RUclips videos together.
True!
Man, y'all go all-out! I appreciate the work you put into your projects AND your videos.
Thanks so much CrafsMan!
WOW didn't expect to see you here
"We're happy with that, and hopefully so is our favorite Mythbuster."
*Jamie will remember that*
Yes, We never had any luck trying to vac-u-form acrylic plastic. It always bubbled. After watching you video now I know why. Thanks Bill.
You got it Ted! =)
Just watched Adam's vid with it before this. The final product looks really good guys 🙂
Thanks so much!
Me too. It was a trip to see the project crossing from one of my subscribed channels to another. This looks SICK.
I really do love your style bill you can tell a true maker by the fact that if you don’t have something you make it or find away around it also never lose you wit and humour
Awe, thank you so much! =)
Very true. this is the life I need
I swear listening to you building props is just like listening to Mr. Rogers. I don't know if it's the voice or your cadence, but it's just so soothing
Won't you be my prop-neighbor? =D
I really enjoy vids like this when you show failures and explain why they fail! It helps others from making the same mistakes. I do have a suggestion that might save some time. Instead of using a hot plate on the galvanized basin, use a Sous Vide immersion cooker! You could set the temperature and walk away and when it gets to temp it will alarm and it will maintain the exact temperature you need indefinitely AND it will be circulating the water/dye mix which may help with the coating process.
You know you've become a master of your craft when you take on a challenging project with very little specific experience, and it turns out beautifully. Well done.
Thanks so much! This project definitely pushed what we're capable of.
Great job guys. Fascinating video as usual. Remember, “I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.” - Thomas A. Edison. Or as Adam, himself, likes to say; "Failure is always an option!"
Oh, obviously you're joking about the "slave driver" bit with your colleagues/staff; but I've worked for people who wouldn't think twice about treating employees like that. Not every employer is a decent human like you.
Working in a plastic packaging manufacturing factory, this was both fun and a bit painful.
Temperature are tricky because they are dependent on the width of your plastic.
The temperature of the core is more critical than the surface temperature,that's why even though the surface temperature is correct, you have problems forming.
PET is the easiest to form and is mostly at least partly recycled plastic. If it becomes opaque and brittle, it's because it's too hot so lower the temperature or heat for a shorter time and you'll be golden. Some variations of temperature can be because of different additives in the plastic so some leeway is best
PVC is a pain to form, Polystyrene and acrylic are finnicky as well.
Smooth moulds will generally be harder to take the formed piece out of because the two surfaces will stick together, so try blowing air through the same hole where the vacuum is. hollow moulds are easier to form because when the plastic cools it detaches itself off of the mould so if possible keep to hollow moulds.
Consider turning on the vacuum before or at the same time that you put the sheet of heated plastic, depending on the mould it could help with forming and decrease the likelihood of wrinkles.
The science behind heat forming plastic, and how it behaves can seem simple but can get really complex depending on what you want out of your final product.
Any way good job with the semi-improvised setup and if any want to try please take the proper precautions because it can be very dangerous and hazardous ( gases emitted, burns, etc)
The way you plug your Patreon is great. Having it in the middle lets you get into the action faster than most channels that stick it up front
Thanks! We've tried to put a lot of thought into how to plug Patreon without being a nuisance.
Love watching a pro do his thing. You’ll forget more than I could ever learn. Your videos are mesmerizing,
Aww thanks so much for watching!
Wow lots of ingenious trial and error to finally get it all to work for a positive outcome. Bravo to you and collaborators.
Thanks so much!
You know you command respect when you make anything for Adam Savage. Awesome...
An idea about the center getting thin:
As the material sags the lowest area is closest to the heating element. Thus it should be hotter than the edges and will always deform faster in the vacuum form than the rest. Try using some angle aluminium to create a diffuser across the heating elements to evenly disperse the heat while protecting the piece from direct radiation. Ideally, some airflow would help distribute heat via convection.
You can see this evidenced in high end electric grills.
PLA softens at a fairly low temperature and 2-part urethane foam gets pretty hot. i'm impressed that the masters didn't distort.
I love it when you collaborate with Adam! You two are my favorite makers! :D
Thanks! =)
Whoah! Attempting an inverted form and acrylic - you are braver than I am, Bill & Brit Doran!
I love the way you built the inverted form - I have always wound up with something much heavier and with poor vacuum. I love watching you guys and learning new stuff!
Naivety often resembles bravery. =)
This is one of the most fascinating videos I've seen in a while. Great job Bill & Brit!
Thank you!
Good ol’ petg! Fascinating process here. Thanks as always for showing what didn’t go right as well as the good stuff! So rad you were a part of this project the suit looks amazing!
We wanted to be a part of Team Helmet, like you! =)
Punished Props Academy Woohooo!
This is so siiiiiick! It's so easy to forget how much time and hard work goes into something like this. The visor turned out perfect guys!
Thank you so much Grace! =D
This is the most informative comments section I have ever seen !
this should be a series on mass media. i totally enjoy watching all you guys make cool stuff. thanks.
You're welcome!
I found it interesting how the final prep utilized a glass polish typically used to restore old "fogged" vehicle headlights. A process used in scale models involves using Future Floor polish. This is an acrylic that can easily be stayed on with an airbrush or even dipped. The floor polish maintains a great surface tension that results in an even layer of coating. The outcome makes the covered material look almost identical to actual glass. I would the acrylic coating would not only protect the surface but provide a higher luster.
What brand would you use?
And it wasn't glass polish they used, it was plastic polish.
THIS CHANNEL ROCKS!!! - Junk Drawer Ideas
Thanks very much!
i used to work with acrylic plastic for security mirrors. If you need a half sphere or dome try blowing air from underneath like blowing soap bubbles. You can use a thicker plastic and won't get tiny bubbles in it.
Hi Bill, You can vacuum form over Silicone or into silicone , believe it or not , it doesn't distort the Silicone . Give it a try. Great Video BTW
That's great! Thanks for sharing Franco. Miss you buddy! =D
Great build on the visors guys - learned significantly more about vacuum forming than I did before[#which was nothing at all]. Think Adam will enjoy and like them visors for his suit. That tinting job - three thumbs up!
I ran a plastic forming company in the 80's. Used to use impact modified acrylics and polycarbonates. The poly was real bad with mosture, had to dry them overnite in ovens. When you go to demold put just a bit of air pressure to it and it helps it pop out of a stubborn to release from mold. Nice job.
When fighting with moisture in pmma/acrylics at what temperature should bake it? If matters I would like to bake a 2.5mm acrylic sheet and vac-u-form it. Thank you in advance.
@@icebmwpower It varies with thickness and chemical makeup of the plastics best to ask the manufacturer for actual info but keep it under the temp the plastic becomes flexible at and my guess would be under 130deg F. for standard plastics. Most acrylics are not overly hygroscopic and do not need drying where as polycarbonates do
@@TheGreatBizarro Thank you for your input.
I’ve found in the info I was looking for. Now I would like to share it here in case someone will need it...
*1) Drying the pmma/acrylics to avoid bibles is 80’C for 24 hours.*
*2) The forming range for acrylic sheet is 290-320’F (142-160’C).* edit: Usually I have success on 120’C.
This just sparked something inside of me. Like I want to make props now.
Thanks for sharing!
That's wonderful! Here's a great place to start: punishedprops.com/new-maker/
Thanks, I shall digest this!
I didn't even know what PETG was before this video. Sounds like a very useful material! Not only is it easier to work with than PMMA, but from browsing some online stores it appears to be cheaper, too (at least, where I live). I think I'm going to start using PETG for projects now instead of PMMA. Thanks for the tip :)
Lol Britt enforcing her will with that giant axe is great, hilarious lol 😆
Dying the resin on each layer of fiberglass is a great idea, I'll have to use that next time
Hello maker! I like to do some making myself too, many times using materials that are new to me, and the one thing that I find important is how to handle all the waste that is created in the process of making. I would love to see in the end or during these videos how you separate the different waste materials for recycling or to the right kind of waste processing. A little introduction of the materials, like if they are toxic or not and what can be thrown in a sewer or garbage bin or recycling of metals and so on. This could promote more responsible use of materials and hopefully keep the environment more healthy.
Hot damn! I never would've guessed it was you two who'd made the visors for Adam's pumpkin suit! That's freakin' awesome! :D
Thanks!
Awesome job guys! Was watching Adam's video, and was wondering how the visors were made, then he said you guys made them, and Boom, this video shows up! Glad you were a big part of this collaboration!
Woohoo!
know it gunna be a good day when Bill and Britt upload
Thanks for sharing this build. It raises a lot of "but? what if " questions as in "what if they did C instead of B". But that is how my mind works. Nice job.
When we did vacu-forming in art school, our teacher who was a self-taught guy with decades of experience (in various fields) taught us a few tricks he'd accumulated in his career as an artist.
One, never over-exert. The proportion between wastage and good part (in the same piece) should be heavily skewed towards what's usable. It means more complicated molds, but it does end up in a better product.
Two,which pertains to this particular pickle, either use thicker material that you absolutely have to bake, i remember that one of our projects required vacu-forming a 8 mm thick piece of perspex, it sat in the make-shift electric oven for almost a week, which we moved in the guard's room so he can look over at night.
OR, you make your own sheet of acrylic with more mass in the center. This is beyond conventional, we've done it maybe 9 times with decent success in our attempt to "replicate" the amazing rabbits of Yamada Sobi, in acrylic. Yes, nuts. You cast the acrylic in a plaster mold which can be made by rotating the mold as you form it, thus creating a gentle slope, and thus give you more mass in the center of the acrylic finite piece.
These were all done in the 2000s, so our technology and materials were far more rudimentary and crude than what you get today. Certainly, cast acrylic quality has improved immensely.
Thanks for sharing all the info!
YOU (aserta) could title as a tutorial, this was more an "Experiment", although it was successful. It irritates me when watching experiments by "experts" that should be teaching not guessing.
@@billl7551 Life is an experiment!
...vacuum forming looks like a variation of the specialized lehr sag bending which is sometimes used for curved automotive glass. Very interesting!!!
The videos are awesome. So, not that it's a bad thing, but with the music, the tone of voice, and yes the beard I definitely got a "This Old House" vibe at the end of the video! Took me back aways.
Ha! That's fantastic. =)
im done.. you got me.. it was.. the last time ive watch a cosplay tutorial.. from now, ill make them and not only watch your video !! you got me XD im sold.. you made +1 cosplayer !!step 1 : tools !! btw your technique are insane ! what a genious,basicly an engeneer!!
Heck yeah! Make awesome stuff!
I used to run a huge vac forming machine putting vinyl on plastic seat backs. It was cool for the first few hours than 6 years went by and now anything vacuum form related I want to go crawl into my dark hole, six feet below the ground. Good video though. Lol
Having only done a small amount of vacuum forming, I can totally understand how one can feel that way.
What type of material was the vinyl? I do upholstery and would love to learn about upholstery vacuum forming
hi bill! great work! next time however, try using water clay instead of foam to splay the part out, it'll make demold so much easier, also, that is fibreglass tissue that you're using, that is mainly used to finish off as a final layer to make it nice and smooth. next time, try using some glass matting, 3 layers then that tissue to finish it off, will make your moulds so much stronger! :D
Great tips, thanks for sharing!
I had a friend who was an optometrist and they used to use RIT dye to tint plastic lenses for sunglasses etc.
Bananas! tinting with fabric dye. What a fantastic idea.
The infomercial style "my frame is just too small for this form!" was phenominal.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed that. =)
Add emery cloth to your frame & it should grip the plastic sheet better when you clamp it. If you use a shaped heat shield suspended inside your heater, you'll be able to control the melt of your plastic sheet & prevent thinning of the material during the vac mold.
PPG-K-38 primer works well for filling printer imperfections, a light black guide coat and then sanding yields great results. 😊👍🏻
Thanks for the tip!
Damn, I wish I could work in a job like this. to get up every morning. and not hate your every breath, cos its just gonna keep you alive for working at a job you hate. but to work and be creative, and love it. oh, my dream.
Here's how I got started: punishedprops.com/business-talk/
Really awesome work! I love that you bring us along on your journey of discovery with showing what works and what doesn't. Thank you!
You're welcome!
That moment when all the pieces come together. Why does bill need such a big ass vacuum former? Oh that’s why!
Oh yeahhhhh! =)
This is just what I needed. To find out how to make a screen. PETG whatever it is worked well. Watch that water on camera so close to the electrics. We saw that. I wonder too if you could have the holes in the vacuum opening sides first and then bottom using a solenoid valve so the sides get pulled first then the bottom to be sure of equal thickness.
So glad we could help!
@@punishedprops Any chance of asking something else though. I really really want to know how to make hard plastic which is harder than nylon even but flexible and heat resistant. Can resin do this or is it injection moulding only to achieve this?
Check out "plug assist thermoforming" if you have to do something like this again. Common technique in commercial systems and could allow you to tune the thicknesses - making the plug wouldn't take very long.
These came out looking so great! And you used so many different processes to get there! Fantastic!
Why thank you!
Great problem solving Bill. They came out looking really great!
Thanks so much Hugo! =D
I got to put the helmet on at NYCC! It was SUPER cool! Very good job on those visors!!!!!
I JUST saw the photo! SO COOL. Thanks Gordon! =D
I had a thought while watching the video regarding the tinting bath. Have you checked into a sous vide immersion circulator used in cooking? You can dial in the exact temperature you were looking for and maintain that temperature as long as needed. For less than 100.00 US, it might be worth giving a try.
@IQzminus A way around any issues with high/low PH would be to have a secondarey container inside the main container. Outer container would house the heater and the inner would house the die bath. This would keep the heater coil from contacting the die yet allow heat through to the inner container. If needed, both containers can be plastic with the temp only needing to be at 140° or so for the die bath.
We actually had considered it, but we already had our $10 electric burner and it works great, so we ran with that. I would be interested to see someone try an immersion circulator, but I don't think we're gonna try it.
@@punishedprops Totally understandable. :)
@IQzminus most likely the pH will not have an effect the device. I would be more concerned with dye pigments collecting on the heating element, although that may not be an issue either if properly cared for. Remember, a lot of high/low pH products are stored in plastic. It's the concentrations that you need to worry about, not the actually pH... think Coca-Cola, it has pH of 3.They also make stainless versions, but still the heating element is where the issues would lie.
Really enjoyed this - I arrived via Adam, having watched his video using the visors. I knew the outcome in advance, so when I got here there was no jeopardy!! Still thoroughly enjoyed it though and have subbed! Looking forward to watching your back catalogue!! Cheers!
Thanks so much for your support!
Hi, great work, from the little experiance i've had with vacuforming - If you had a big radius around the edge of the form the material would flow better into it and reduce the thinning. Making the unwanted areas of the form smooth would help to as the material will get 'hung-up' on the rough sections. Another option is to add a bit of vacuum to the heater box to help pre-stretch before the move to the form.
That's an interesting proposition. I think that could have helped a little bit, but in my experience the plastic doesn't "flow" as well as one might assume it would. I think some kind of form that helps push the excess material into the mold would have had a more pronounced impact. Unfortunately we didn't have much wiggle room in the schedule to experiment.
Great video! I'm very impressed by how many technical details and tips you crammed in, while still being entertaining. No wasted words...and Adam's cameraman ought to take a close look at your cinematography. :)
Hey Bill - crazy to see you got a big shop and 4 people in it.. i remember when i heard you on the morning stream alot of years ago and you had a little basement shop.. gj and cool to see this channel and the great craftmenship on it...
Pretty incredible, right?! =D
@@punishedprops Yeah man. Thats so awesome. I am taking a leap myself right now. Trying to start my own metal machine shop. It's pretty scary haha
Very nice, I did some visors for xwing helmets a few years ago that were somewhat similar. It was one of those items that the results turned out better than expected. Always a bonus.
Super cool!
Wow, what an incredible amount of work. Great job!
Thank you so much!
Nice job!! I enjoyed watching you tint the visors, it was satisfying after each dip.
Isn't it cool?
@@punishedprops it is really cool!! I have been binge watching your videos. So glad I found your channel!
This chanel! Are you kidding me! AWESOME! In love! Thanks a ton for sharing all your knowledge!
You're so very welcome! Thank YOU for supporting us!
Has this ever been done? It feels pretty revolutionary
Great job guys! Looks fantastic! I've got a Halo EVA Helmet visor on the printer and this will be a Goldmine for the final version!!! Great work as always!
That's fantastic!
Awesome. Great to see all the steps it takes to make something really custom. Can't imagine what the $ cost would be to hire someone to do that.
Adam Savage's biggest fans I watched his Mythbusters TV show when it was on everyday
you guys have the best gadgets. and make the coolest stuff..
PET-G is an amazing plastic, never did manage to get the tint working though. Always got little spots or marks on it! Great video though! Very informative! Looking forward to building my own vacuum former now!
In WW2 the Germans used a multi stamping process to make helmets far superior to the enemies that had an inherent flaw. The helmets were super thin at the top (where it counts), and thick at the bottom.
You can actually use that same method in vacuum forming. Make a half sphere (in this case that's all you would need) some fraction of the volume of your final part. Form it, reheat it, then form it again in as many stages necessary. The more stages the more accurate it is. In this case I think 2 stages would make a part with unnoticeable thickness deviation.
These looked a lot more rigid when Adam had them. Really awesome job.
If you put a foot switch inline with your shop vac, you can just stomp on the pedal to get vacuum when you need it.
This is great, you guys remind me so much of my shop and my team of goofball makers.
I'm 3D printing some helmets to vacuform and was debating on a negative pull and after your video I'm convinced. I've done blow molds to keep my plastic optical clear but its always a challenge to keep your bucks smooth and clean when running Plex, I'm going to try PETG.
Heck yeah!
The problem with your heater box is that the top of the plastic is cold, needs heating from both sides for 1/8 3mm acrylic. Also positive buck moulds work better for deep items as you stretch the plastic over them and they come out a more even thickness.
Great feedback, thanks!
same. All the HALO visors I do are pos bucks
. I print the buck . then glass the inside to reenforce it . then Exp foam and dunnage. .
On the print I use ABS and acetone smooth . Pull PETG and its not too bad! .
If you're gel-coating a non porus material, then use at least 5 thin layers of pva mould release liquid. If you're fibre glassing plaster moulds then use (honestly) brush on pond sealer. Then about 7 coats of mould release wax. As long as the mould is bone dry, it works just fine.
Great tips, thanks for sharing!
I am not familiar with prop making but I really enjoyed this video and learned a lot in the process!!
I too like nice smooth insides .
Great video. Mixing the smooth dye (forgot what it's called) with a 2k clear and spraying it through an HVLP it gets the same effect of tinting without having to go through the heating water process. took it out of Volpin Props playbook.
Ooh yeah that's a great solution! We don't have a good HVLP sprayer/booth set up yet.
Rad, I didn't know you could tint plastic like that! thanks for sharing! PETG it is.
You're very welcome! =D
You need an air canister with a "blast" valve , so you place the hot plastic, then blow it into a slight bubble with the valve , prestretching the plastic evenly ... then with the blast valve off, you apply the vacuum.. then you get even thickness ......
Very cool. Of course, you know this means you need to build your own spacesuits... LOL. Keep up the wonderful work
To infinity and beyond!
when you must go deep you must make preforms to get the material thinner where you don't need it and localized heating
That is amazing! And even working with Adam Savage!
Well that was freaking exhausting.
So much work for a bubble.
Hope you guys get that oven ya always wanted.
Man this is so satisfying
Thanks for watching!
How can I compliment thee? Ok... This one of those builds that makes a fellow-maker jealous - how's that!
great build and video. first time I saw the tinting. really cool
Thank you!
I just wanted to point out that the link for PET-G in the description actually leads you to an amazon link thats for PET rather than PET-G. They aren’t the same thing and what you want is PET-G.
this great, thank for the guidance/ video. we will try to do something thx again
Thanks for watching!
You could say this build is
*Savage~*
Good vídeo :D
Heyooooo!
Wow your skills are impressive.
Inspiring! Such an excellent job you did!
Great build! I wonder if you could do it with an Apollo bubble helmet.
What do you think, Bill?