Actually, many northern European countries essentially kept the courier and replaced the medieval bishop piece. The piece we call 'bishop' is given the equivalent of 'courier' (runner) in German, Dutch and Norwegian. The identity of the Bishop piece is a real wild card between different countries: a fool in French, elephant in the old Arabic form, camel in Mongolia and India, archer in old Germany, judge in old Spain ... so, it's all very interesting .. and rather complicated. Wonderful variety!
TheChadsVlog asked about pawn moves in medieval chess. For the most part, pawns did not have a special 2-space move as the do in the modern game. However, there were many regional variants. Some, like this game, had certain pawns starting with a 2-space jump to get to a certain understood starting position. But there is mention of a 2-move jump in Cesolis's account, from about 1275, in which pawns are even allowed to jump over a piece in front of them -- but that is a rare account.
Thanks for that good comment. I know in some other languages, including German and Dutch, it translates the same. I think this 'courier' in courier chess helped make the transition to modern chess in the northern countries.
Rick, the Medieval Queen moves like the Queen in Shatranj. The Medieval Bishop moves like the Elephant in Shatranj. The Jester moves like the Giraffe in Let's Catch the Lion.
In the old chess forms, including this one, it was usual for a bare king - one side left with nothing but a king - to be a loss. Many games were won in this way, and it was an important aim of the endgame. Usually, the player being left with a bare king had just one more move: to bare the opponent's king if possible and declare a draw.
When I played this on Jocly with my dad, he didn’t know how to play. So I taught him how to play. And he beat me. He tried moving some pieces that moves like modern chess pieces. But I still think you do a great job! I’m glad this is on eBay.
Your assessment can not be denied, as you have the advantage of a few centuries' perspective. Throughout the history of chess, there have been many attempts to speed up the start of the game -- and the modern power of queen and bishop is what took hold in Europe. Even so, the ancient forms gave an equally engaging experience to their players and still hold great potential for modern players. Some modern variants still have slow starts, such as Shogi -- but oh what great games they are!
Thanks for the good response! I have many more videos in mind -- it just takes me while to get to them! I'm always a little surprised, even with my low-tech arrangement, how long it takes to set up the space, get out the sets, make sure the camera is working, download and upload -- but yes -- I do mean to make many more videos!
Thanks for the great comment! I haven't posted anything for a while, but have many hours of video listed on AncientChess.com. What's happening now is a big crunch to get our book published. Much last-minute review now, before it goes to print on May 28th (as planned....). You'll find it on Amazon "A World of Chess" by Cazaux and Knowlton. Anyway, wanting to get back to making videos soon as I can squeeze out some more quality time!
Thanks for the good comment about the book! I have never released one before, and it may be a while before I publish anything again -- this really is the big one! Don't feel bad about shogi -- I agree, it's one of the best, maybe my favorite ... but the Japanese/Chinese characters create a tough learning curve for many players. A great way to ease the curve is to get the game "Dobustu Shogi in the Greenwood". It is 100% the full game of shogi, but with "friendly" pieces that show their moves on the face of each piece. I am out of them right now, but will have a few more sets soon. ruclips.net/video/u_IBJ10UEg4/видео.html A second choice (which I do have) is shogi with international characters. It's not as instructive as the "in the Greenwood" game -- but still much easier to take in than straight Japanese... ruclips.net/video/dFK8zbUkg8k/видео.html
I have a simplified version called Expanded Chess. The board is 11×11, no citadels, different starting setup, one type of pawn, a queen, bishops instead of talias, and the giraffe moves like a Korean elephant and can jump.
@@garyfleming7028 Of course I totally understand. I was into learning, collecting and making things long before I got into selling. It's just a fascinating thing to be involved with
I forgot to tell you the starting setup. The front row is 11 pawns. The middle row is camel, empty, alfil, empty, dabbaba, queen, dabbaba, empty, alfil, empty, camel. The back row is rook, knight, bishop, giraffe, ferz, king, wazir, giraffe, bishop, knight, rook. Also, I have your book. I absolutely love it, and plan on making variants inspired by some in the book. Maybe you could even make a new edition (less than $50 if possible!) with even more variants. But why are those guys on page 198 playing chess at the pool?
I hv made my own Courier chess. ur vedio as reference helped a lot. Thanks for showing ur vedio. Ur chess pieces are so beautiful that the only name i would like to say AMAZING ..
Thank you for your great comment. It is a pleasure to read that you are making you own sets, and finding my video useful. Send comments or questions any time. Rick AWorldofChess.com
Yeah, that's pretty much it. I see you're connecting the dots between the old chess and this variant ... with a little reach into the modern chess with the courier/bishop. In several northern European languages, the modern bishop holds onto that identity as a courier (thus, laufer, loper, etc.)
No. My variance are not actual games, just ideas. Also, I couldn't finish writing the rules because right in the middle of my comment the internet started messing up so I never got to finish it
It's pretty much just regular chess, but in between the bishops and the monarchs (king and queen) there is a ferz on the queenside and a wazir on the kingside. Pawns can also promote to the new pieces. The new pieces move the same way they do in Tamerlane chess. Castling is done by moving the king 3 squares.
Yeah, I think that's true of most chess forms, until our modern chess of the 'mad queen' came on the scene. (though xiangqi is also a game with quick attacks....) Thanks for the good comment.
A very interesting variant of the game, but I can see why the modern form completely replaced it even thou courier had been played for centuries.The game pieces that didnt make the modern version only move one (or two for courier) squares. The additional slow pieces and larger board size make for a much slower paced game that takes much longer to play.
Hey, I understand! This happens to be a very particular set, very few are made and production is labor intensive. Check out some other sets and things of chess history interest -- there's much to enjoy without shelling out 300 dollars! AncientChess com
As far as we know, the original version of chess was very much like the one we play today, but with much weaker moves for the queen and bishop (called adviser and elephant in those days). It was probably about as hard to play, but in different ways. Courier chess is definitely more complicated, with more types of pieces.
@@garyfleming8269 Thanks, yes, those were the Arabic identities of the pieces. The word "ferz" was carried on into much of Europe, and was used as a word for the queen .. or sometimes for a promoted pawn -- to differentiate from the original queen. The Europeans didn't know what to make of the elephant piece, and it took on all sorts of different identities, which it retains today in the various European languages
Was it possible to have 2 bare kings at the end? Or was the game instantly finished when 1 bare king was left? If so that can turn otherwise totally drawn positions to a complete loss/win..
I was wondering about the piece called the Man/Sage, which moves like a king. What would such a piece be worth? So I looked it up, it's actually considered to be with 4 points, stronger than a bishop or knight.
Thanks, that is a good question. I have heard it said that in standard chess, the king has the fighting power of 5 in the endgame. It would make sense though, on the enlarged 10 x 8 board, that a piece with limited range (unlike rook or bishop) would be a little diminished relatively. All that is to say, 4 sounds quite believable. I think it could make a very good piece for a mating attack.
Also king and man can many positions better defend against a king and modern queen, than knight and king or bishop and king or even rook and king. But of course it's no so relevant ind courier chess.
keep in mind that even though the king is worth more than minor pieces, you have to remember this value is reached by considering the fact that the king can bully these pieces in close combat, from a positional standpoint a knight or bishop will overpower the king in a battle where the board has two spread out weak points. Also, since the man is not subject to checkmate, it's opening/middle game value starts at about 4 1/2 as oppose to the king who doesn't gain this value until the endgame, when the threat of checkmate is gone. Also remember that every piece has a unique role that suits it's movement. If you attempt to position a man against a knight in an area that would be better suited or a knight, you will end up with a weaker man. I know I'm ranting, but one more thing. The closer the man is to the king, the more value it has, much like a pawn nearing promotion. A man that is two squares away from the king and setup for a mating net would be more valuable than a rook even if the attack hasn't come to fruition yet.
This is a beautiful set of board and pieces. It looks great! I wonder one thing though; how can you tell from the painting wich piece is the 'jester' and the 'man'? Is there enogh information to tell wich piece is wich? Or maybe this can be known from some other sourse?
Thanks for the insightful comment. Yes indeed, the rook gets more power as the board expands, while the relative power of the other pieces is more limited. In those days, with no modern queen on the board, the rook was the most powerful to begin with -- in courier chess it's power became even greater. Surprisingly, the players of courier chess were so enthralled with the courier's move (same as modern bishop), that they at times reported it was the most powerful piece on the board! (modern analysts would disagree)
Jester? Or Man? Only one of these appears on van Leyden's chessboard. Obscured by the woman's hand, it stands way over to her right on square KN3. If this is a Jester, it has moved 8 times - an extraordinary romp for a weak piece in the late middle game. Note that every piece on the board could have reached its current square within 4 moves from the opening position. It is more likely the Man, having moved a minimum of 3 times. Also consider the jester's frilly collar and ball hat.
+a0z.universe Thanks for the message. I'm not sure what you're looking for exactly. This is the only set of courier pieces I have ... but it's possible to improvise and create other sorts of pieces
to ancienchess wwii world warii chess Broad 8×8 sq. 24chessman(16 chessman + 2tank(move capture same rook not more than 3sq.) 2bombing plane(same cannon in xiagqi ) 2general(kone in thai chess) 1guard(med in thai chess) 1prince(move capture same queen not more than 2sq.)
Thanks for the comment -- I see you're connecting the dots here. Yes, those moves of Queen and Bishop were the same in most parts of the chess world -- until the new (modern) chess came along at the end of the 15th century. The jester's move is more peculiar, usually only found in larger chess variants, though it is common in games of the 'stratego' family (the game dou shou qi for instance), and - as you mentioned - in the special children's game Let's Catch the Lion (a new shogi variant).
I actually modernized this game. Here are the modernized rules: - Pawns can double advance and capture en passant. - There is no obligatory joy leaps. - Castling s allowed. - Pawns become any piece during promotion, minus king and pawn. - Stalemate is a draw. - There is no bare king rule. -The sage is replaced by a queen, which moves as in western chess. Not to be confused with the medieval queen, renamed a ferz. -The bishop is renamed an alfil. - The courier is renamed a bishop. - The jester is renamed a wazir. - The back rank is set up R, N, A, B, F, Q, K, W, B, A, N, R.
Great! Play the game a bit and see how your rules play out. I think it'll be a great game! I'd love to hear back from you about your experiences. There have been several efforts into modernizing Courier Chess ... the most successful ones are described in our book. aworldofchess.com/video.html
I already did. It turned out well. I found that wazirs are good for attacking the pawns, ferzes can be us to defend pawns if you place pawns around the ferz, and alfils - I don't know what they are good for. Defending the king, maybe? The rest is like western chess.
@@garyfleming7028 Hey Gary, how do you mean? Black, White, in what context? It will take a couple of moves to get there... Anyway, regarding your play-testing -- sounds good! Keep on playing .. maybe you've got a new Courier chess to publish
I guess the important thing is that only pawns and knights are still steppers, and knights aren't *exactly* steppers. Sliders are IT, and steppers are OUT.
Yes, thanks for noticing. That is the orientation of king and queen that has been related to us in the old texts. You'll notice that with this particular board of 12 squares across, it makes the black and white kings stand on the same side of the board, regarding left and right, as they are in the standard arrangement. (did I say that clearly enough?) :)
Makes more sense for the King to start in his color since his the main piece, Queens starting in their colors instead of Kings in modern day Chess just doesn't make sense.
Yes, it is only in the "international" European chess that the pawn promotion becomes this hugely important task, creating a powerful queen. That's a relatively new idea -- not a long-standing ancient one. In the older chess forms, and other traditional variants (Thai, Burmese, etc.) the pawn promotion wasn't such a big deal, just not as important. The ancient chess however had one important rule that made close games end more decisively: you could win by removing all of the opponent's army, leaving only his king. I do not know if the original courier chess practiced that 'bared king' rule, but it's likely that it did -- at least in the beginning of the game, around 1200 AD.
there is an old version of Shogi in which most of the pieces actually demote to weaker ones after capturing. Pieces back then were much slower and usually had gaping holes in their threat zones. Maybe the double edged promotions were a way to add dynamics to old games that would otherwise fail to draw death.
Yeah, I think we cover the variant you're referring to in our book. The pieces in that game promote when they capture a piece -- so they start out with greater powers, but can only use their 'super' powers once, before converting to a more normal piece. Thanks for the good comments
It was a queen in this case. When chess came to Europe, the king's partner was immediately identified as a queen -- this is attested by the oldest known European sources dating to about 1000 AD. However, it still had the simple move of the Arabic adviser until the revolutionary change starting around 1475, and quickly spreading throughout Europe. But still, until much later adaptations were made, this piece in courier remained a queen and kept its old-school move.
@@Order-Sol No castling ... and en passant doesn't apply because the pawns don't generally have the option of moving 2 spaces. What are you getting at? .. Have you watched the whole video? .. Why these particular questions? There could be more to say about it, but I don't understand what you're trying to figure out
@@Order-Sol THanks, no problem. Especially impressive regarding this variant is that it existed for some 6 centuries -- a very long run for a non-standard version of chess. There's a web site about it, courierchess.com
@@garyfleming8269 Thanks Gary, I don't know what that comment was a response to, 6 years ago, but it must have been an odd tangent. Why do you chose wazir for the schleich?
Although, I do group chess pieces into groups based on how they move, and I guess the king would be a royal stepper, since it steps one square and can be checked.
+Paulo Sousa Thanks for the message. I have to make more sets. I'm waiting for the pieces to come in, then I finish them and make the boards. Sorry they haven't been available for a while
+antoine morales Thanks for your message. I have all the materials now, pieces are cast but need to be finished (sanded, painted, lacquered, felted). If you can get me your email address, I'll send you a notice as soon as they are available again. Maybe 2 or 3 weeks.
Actually, many northern European countries essentially kept the courier and replaced the medieval bishop piece. The piece we call 'bishop' is given the equivalent of 'courier' (runner) in German, Dutch and Norwegian. The identity of the Bishop piece is a real wild card between different countries: a fool in French, elephant in the old Arabic form, camel in Mongolia and India, archer in old Germany, judge in old Spain ... so, it's all very interesting .. and rather complicated. Wonderful variety!
TheChadsVlog asked about pawn moves in medieval chess. For the most part, pawns did not have a special 2-space move as the do in the modern game. However, there were many regional variants. Some, like this game, had certain pawns starting with a 2-space jump to get to a certain understood starting position. But there is mention of a 2-move jump in Cesolis's account, from about 1275, in which pawns are even allowed to jump over a piece in front of them -- but that is a rare account.
This is actually interesting. In Finnish the chess piece bishop is called 'lähetti' which actually means (outside chess) a courier. :o
Thanks for that good comment. I know in some other languages, including German and Dutch, it translates the same. I think this 'courier' in courier chess helped make the transition to modern chess in the northern countries.
Rick, the Medieval Queen moves like the Queen in Shatranj. The Medieval Bishop moves like the Elephant in Shatranj. The Jester moves like the Giraffe in Let's Catch the Lion.
In the old chess forms, including this one, it was usual for a bare king - one side left with nothing but a king - to be a loss. Many games were won in this way, and it was an important aim of the endgame. Usually, the player being left with a bare king had just one more move: to bare the opponent's king if possible and declare a draw.
When I played this on Jocly with my dad, he didn’t know how to play. So I taught him how to play. And he beat me. He tried moving some pieces that moves like modern chess pieces. But I still think you do a great job! I’m glad this is on eBay.
Your assessment can not be denied, as you have the advantage of a few centuries' perspective. Throughout the history of chess, there have been many attempts to speed up the start of the game -- and the modern power of queen and bishop is what took hold in Europe. Even so, the ancient forms gave an equally engaging experience to their players and still hold great potential for modern players. Some modern variants still have slow starts, such as Shogi -- but oh what great games they are!
Thanks for the good response! I have many more videos in mind -- it just takes me while to get to them! I'm always a little surprised, even with my low-tech arrangement, how long it takes to set up the space, get out the sets, make sure the camera is working, download and upload -- but yes -- I do mean to make many more videos!
My favorite youtube channel. always great info.
Thanks for the great comment! I haven't posted anything for a while, but have many hours of video listed on AncientChess.com. What's happening now is a big crunch to get our book published. Much last-minute review now, before it goes to print on May 28th (as planned....). You'll find it on Amazon "A World of Chess" by Cazaux and Knowlton. Anyway, wanting to get back to making videos soon as I can squeeze out some more quality time!
I adore Shogi but I am way too dumb to be good at.
AncientChess I will buy every book you release to help out.
Thanks for the good comment about the book! I have never released one before, and it may be a while before I publish anything again -- this really is the big one!
Don't feel bad about shogi -- I agree, it's one of the best, maybe my favorite ... but the Japanese/Chinese characters create a tough learning curve for many players. A great way to ease the curve is to get the game "Dobustu Shogi in the Greenwood". It is 100% the full game of shogi, but with "friendly" pieces that show their moves on the face of each piece. I am out of them right now, but will have a few more sets soon.
ruclips.net/video/u_IBJ10UEg4/видео.html
A second choice (which I do have) is shogi with international characters. It's not as instructive as the "in the Greenwood" game -- but still much easier to take in than straight Japanese...
ruclips.net/video/dFK8zbUkg8k/видео.html
AncientChess thank you so much.
Yes! Tamerlane chess is amazing! I would love to see a set of that re-created.
I have a simplified version called Expanded Chess. The board is 11×11, no citadels, different starting setup, one type of pawn, a queen, bishops instead of talias, and the giraffe moves like a Korean elephant and can jump.
@@garyfleming7028 Sounds like a great game! Maybe we can play some time.
Rick
AWorldofChess.com
I don't actually sell it, it's just an idea. I do want to make a chess business, but I'm only 13 and don't have money.
@@garyfleming7028 Of course I totally understand. I was into learning, collecting and making things long before I got into selling. It's just a fascinating thing to be involved with
I forgot to tell you the starting setup.
The front row is 11 pawns.
The middle row is camel, empty, alfil, empty, dabbaba, queen, dabbaba, empty, alfil, empty, camel.
The back row is rook, knight, bishop, giraffe, ferz, king, wazir, giraffe, bishop, knight, rook.
Also, I have your book. I absolutely love it, and plan on making variants inspired by some in the book. Maybe you could even make a new edition (less than $50 if possible!) with even more variants. But why are those guys on page 198 playing chess at the pool?
I love your history talk.
I hv made my own Courier chess. ur vedio as reference helped a lot.
Thanks for showing ur vedio.
Ur chess pieces are so beautiful that the only name i would like to say AMAZING ..
Thank you for your great comment. It is a pleasure to read that you are making you own sets, and finding my video useful. Send comments or questions any time.
Rick
AWorldofChess.com
Pawn - Bedak (Shatranj)
Queen - Ferz
Schleich - Wazir (Variant)
Sage - Sage
King - King
Knight - Knight
Rook - Rook
Bishop - Alfil (Shatranj)
Courier - Bishop (Chess)
Yeah, that's pretty much it. I see you're connecting the dots between the old chess and this variant ... with a little reach into the modern chess with the courier/bishop. In several northern European languages, the modern bishop holds onto that identity as a courier (thus, laufer, loper, etc.)
To avoid confusion, I still call the courier a bishop, and the bishop an alfil so I don't mix up their moves.
I remember watching these videos years ago! Man does time fly
I know -- and I'm still here! I've become an author in the meantime. Check out my book if you have a chance
aworldofchess.com/video.html
@@AncientChess keep making more videos
So many fascinating games ! Me being your neighbour, I would pretty much harass you permanantly to play something everyday.
Great! Another thing to look forward to when this darn pandemic is over :)
Another very interesting chess variant is tamerlane chess.
Here is a chess variant that I think you'll enjoy. It is called Royal Chess, and is played on a 10×8 board.
...you meant to include a link?...
No. My variance are not actual games, just ideas. Also, I couldn't finish writing the rules because right in the middle of my comment the internet started messing up so I never got to finish it
It's pretty much just regular chess, but in between the bishops and the monarchs (king and queen) there is a ferz on the queenside and a wazir on the kingside. Pawns can also promote to the new pieces. The new pieces move the same way they do in Tamerlane chess. Castling is done by moving the king 3 squares.
About the game ancient chess I wonder how powerful is the advisor chess piece?
One of my favorite Variants. It rewards the patient strategist over the heated attacker. Blitz players beware.
Yeah, I think that's true of most chess forms, until our modern chess of the 'mad queen' came on the scene. (though xiangqi is also a game with quick attacks....) Thanks for the good comment.
You should sell these on your site for 15 bucks!
Excellent clip. Very interesting….I think I will make a set !! I hope I can find a few players when I'm done.
Great to hear! Let us know how it goes!
A very interesting variant of the game, but I can see why the modern form completely replaced it even thou courier had been played for centuries.The game pieces that didnt make the modern version only move one (or two for courier) squares. The additional slow pieces and larger board size make for a much slower paced game that takes much longer to play.
Hey, I understand! This happens to be a very particular set, very few are made and production is labor intensive. Check out some other sets and things of chess history interest -- there's much to enjoy without shelling out 300 dollars!
AncientChess com
As far as we know, the original version of chess was very much like the one we play today, but with much weaker moves for the queen and bishop (called adviser and elephant in those days). It was probably about as hard to play, but in different ways. Courier chess is definitely more complicated, with more types of pieces.
Shatranj:
Advisor - Ferz
Elephant - Alfil
@@garyfleming8269 Thanks, yes, those were the Arabic identities of the pieces. The word "ferz" was carried on into much of Europe, and was used as a word for the queen .. or sometimes for a promoted pawn -- to differentiate from the original queen.
The Europeans didn't know what to make of the elephant piece, and it took on all sorts of different identities, which it retains today in the various European languages
Was it possible to have 2 bare kings at the end? Or was the game instantly finished when 1 bare king was left? If so that can turn otherwise totally drawn positions to a complete loss/win..
Man I didn’t know the chess dlc came out that long ago
I was wondering about the piece called the Man/Sage, which moves like a king. What would such a piece be worth? So I looked it up, it's actually considered to be with 4 points, stronger than a bishop or knight.
Thanks, that is a good question. I have heard it said that in standard chess, the king has the fighting power of 5 in the endgame. It would make sense though, on the enlarged 10 x 8 board, that a piece with limited range (unlike rook or bishop) would be a little diminished relatively. All that is to say, 4 sounds quite believable. I think it could make a very good piece for a mating attack.
Well a King and a Man can checkmate a bare king. So can neither bishop + king or knight + king.
Also king and man can many positions better defend against a king and modern queen, than knight and king or bishop and king or even rook and king. But of course it's no so relevant ind courier chess.
keep in mind that even though the king is worth more than minor pieces, you have to remember this value is reached by considering the fact that the king can bully these pieces in close combat, from a positional standpoint a knight or bishop will overpower the king in a battle where the board has two spread out weak points. Also, since the man is not subject to checkmate, it's opening/middle game value starts at about 4 1/2 as oppose to the king who doesn't gain this value until the endgame, when the threat of checkmate is gone. Also remember that every piece has a unique role that suits it's movement. If you attempt to position a man against a knight in an area that would be better suited or a knight, you will end up with a weaker man. I know I'm ranting, but one more thing. The closer the man is to the king, the more value it has, much like a pawn nearing promotion. A man that is two squares away from the king and setup for a mating net would be more valuable than a rook even if the attack hasn't come to fruition yet.
That's kind of odd. I thought the sage would be about 2.
This is a beautiful set of board and pieces. It looks great!
I wonder one thing though; how can you tell from the painting wich piece is the 'jester' and the 'man'? Is there enogh information to tell wich piece is wich? Or maybe this can be known from some other sourse?
Thank you for the ''chessing''! Hi from Russia)) There are many new pieces in Alexander's Space Chess project.
The rooks in Courier Chess must be incredibly powerful given the board size and other pieces’ severe limitations.
Thanks for the insightful comment. Yes indeed, the rook gets more power as the board expands, while the relative power of the other pieces is more limited. In those days, with no modern queen on the board, the rook was the most powerful to begin with -- in courier chess it's power became even greater. Surprisingly, the players of courier chess were so enthralled with the courier's move (same as modern bishop), that they at times reported it was the most powerful piece on the board! (modern analysts would disagree)
very interesting. Are there any clubs that play this game? Or is it obsolete? I really like your videos
@AncientChess Ah yes, that makes sense. You have really studied this closely. Thanks!
Jester? Or Man? Only one of these appears on van Leyden's chessboard. Obscured by the woman's hand, it stands way over to her right on square KN3. If this is a Jester, it has moved 8 times - an extraordinary romp for a weak piece in the late middle game. Note that every piece on the board could have reached its current square within 4 moves from the opening position. It is more likely the Man, having moved a minimum of 3 times. Also consider the jester's frilly collar and ball hat.
Are there any modern boards of these Or are there any ways / variations on a Modern Chess Set?
or maybe like an extension, with an attatchment to the board and extra pieces?
+a0z.universe Thanks for the message. I'm not sure what you're looking for exactly. This is the only set of courier pieces I have ... but it's possible to improvise and create other sorts of pieces
a0z.universe If I remember right. You can buy all kinds of chess pieces and even boards at game board geek .com.
are these versions of chess as hard as the original?
excellent decor!
+Pocari Sweat Thanks. Dolphins!
So they kept the courier's move and the bishop's name. Interesting.
to ancienchess wwii world warii chess Broad 8×8 sq. 24chessman(16 chessman + 2tank(move capture same rook not more than 3sq.) 2bombing plane(same cannon in xiagqi ) 2general(kone in thai chess) 1guard(med in thai chess) 1prince(move capture same queen not more than 2sq.)
In the medieval version of chess did the pawns get to move forward two on their first go?
No. There was no double advance.
Thanks for the comment -- I see you're connecting the dots here. Yes, those moves of Queen and Bishop were the same in most parts of the chess world -- until the new (modern) chess came along at the end of the 15th century. The jester's move is more peculiar, usually only found in larger chess variants, though it is common in games of the 'stratego' family (the game dou shou qi for instance), and - as you mentioned - in the special children's game Let's Catch the Lion (a new shogi variant).
I actually modernized this game. Here are the modernized rules:
- Pawns can double advance and capture en passant.
- There is no obligatory joy leaps.
- Castling s allowed.
- Pawns become any piece during promotion, minus king and pawn.
- Stalemate is a draw.
- There is no bare king rule.
-The sage is replaced by a queen, which moves as in western chess. Not to be confused with the medieval queen, renamed a ferz.
-The bishop is renamed an alfil.
- The courier is renamed a bishop.
- The jester is renamed a wazir.
- The back rank is set up
R, N, A, B, F, Q, K, W, B, A, N, R.
Great! Play the game a bit and see how your rules play out. I think it'll be a great game! I'd love to hear back from you about your experiences. There have been several efforts into modernizing Courier Chess ... the most successful ones are described in our book.
aworldofchess.com/video.html
I already did. It turned out well. I found that wazirs are good for attacking the pawns, ferzes can be us to defend pawns if you place pawns around the ferz, and alfils - I don't know what they are good for. Defending the king, maybe? The rest is like western chess.
I knew that, but My I've been wondering. Is Ba5 a good move in western chess?
@@garyfleming7028 Hey Gary, how do you mean? Black, White, in what context? It will take a couple of moves to get there...
Anyway, regarding your play-testing -- sounds good! Keep on playing .. maybe you've got a new Courier chess to publish
I mean as an opening move as white. Would it open up black's king?
the knights look hilarious
I guess the important thing is that only pawns and knights are still steppers, and knights aren't *exactly* steppers. Sliders are IT, and steppers are OUT.
Knights are jumpers, as are bishops.
yes^^
I noticed the king is on his color. Is that intentional?
Yes, thanks for noticing. That is the orientation of king and queen that has been related to us in the old texts. You'll notice that with this particular board of 12 squares across, it makes the black and white kings stand on the same side of the board, regarding left and right, as they are in the standard arrangement. (did I say that clearly enough?) :)
Makes more sense for the King to start in his color since his the main piece, Queens starting in their colors instead of Kings in modern day Chess just doesn't make sense.
I have a cool starting setup.
PPPPPPPPPPPP
RNABJQKSBANR
Hmmm...
I guess he is. And they kept him that way, I guess because he'd be too hard to checkmate if he could slide all over the board.
I play by medieval rules
what's the reason of p become a q here ? q here so weak
Yes, it is only in the "international" European chess that the pawn promotion becomes this hugely important task, creating a powerful queen. That's a relatively new idea -- not a long-standing ancient one. In the older chess forms, and other traditional variants (Thai, Burmese, etc.) the pawn promotion wasn't such a big deal, just not as important. The ancient chess however had one important rule that made close games end more decisively: you could win by removing all of the opponent's army, leaving only his king. I do not know if the original courier chess practiced that 'bared king' rule, but it's likely that it did -- at least in the beginning of the game, around 1200 AD.
there is an old version of Shogi in which most of the pieces actually demote to weaker ones after capturing. Pieces back then were much slower and usually had gaping holes in their threat zones. Maybe the double edged promotions were a way to add dynamics to old games that would otherwise fail to draw death.
Yeah, I think we cover the variant you're referring to in our book. The pieces in that game promote when they capture a piece -- so they start out with greater powers, but can only use their 'super' powers once, before converting to a more normal piece. Thanks for the good comments
The queen wasn't called the queen back then.
It was a queen in this case. When chess came to Europe, the king's partner was immediately identified as a queen -- this is attested by the oldest known European sources dating to about 1000 AD. However, it still had the simple move of the Arabic adviser until the revolutionary change starting around 1475, and quickly spreading throughout Europe. But still, until much later adaptations were made, this piece in courier remained a queen and kept its old-school move.
It was called a FERZ.
So would I.
Is there a Jester in this game?
Oh yes there is! See 3:56.
The schleich beside the queen is translated, and often depicted, as a jester.
@@AncientChess Also is there any legal moves you can perform in this version like Castling and En Passant?
@@Order-Sol No castling ... and en passant doesn't apply because the pawns don't generally have the option of moving 2 spaces. What are you getting at? .. Have you watched the whole video? .. Why these particular questions? There could be more to say about it, but I don't understand what you're trying to figure out
@@AncientChess Sorry, my bad I was a little curious that's all.
Though, the game seems quite interesting.
@@Order-Sol THanks, no problem. Especially impressive regarding this variant is that it existed for some 6 centuries -- a very long run for a non-standard version of chess. There's a web site about it, courierchess.com
So ... would you call the king a stepper?
No, I would call it a king, and the schleich a wazir!
@@garyfleming8269 Thanks Gary, I don't know what that comment was a response to, 6 years ago, but it must have been an odd tangent.
Why do you chose wazir for the schleich?
The wazir is a variant chess piece that moves one square orthogonally. Also the bishop is an alfil and the queen is a ferz (like in shatranj).
@@garyfleming8269 Yes, I see what you mean. The wazir occurs in Tamerlane chess -- and does have the move of the Schleich in this variant.
Although, I do group chess pieces into groups based on how they move, and I guess the king would be a royal stepper, since it steps one square and can be checked.
Uh I love chess and history and I want it but don't have the money!
Now chess.com implemented courier chess
Great! Here's the page to go to the variants there www.chess.com/variants
and here's the Courier page www.chess.com/variants/courier-chess
Courier Chess is very difficult. All the pieces have really weird shapes especially the bishop. And it's Ancient Chess!!!
That's right! It's a strange ancient world of freakiness! Check it out!
+AncientChess In Ebay, i only found the Courier Chess painting & not the set.
+Paulo Sousa Thanks for the message. I have to make more sets. I'm waiting for the pieces to come in, then I finish them and make the boards. Sorry they haven't been available for a while
+antoine morales Thanks for your message. I have all the materials now, pieces are cast but need to be finished (sanded, painted, lacquered, felted). If you can get me your email address, I'll send you a notice as soon as they are available again. Maybe 2 or 3 weeks.
+antoine morales Got it! ...