For the BEST way skip to the bottom: The ONLY possible savings is if one is running the hot water until the water at the device gets hot. Most houses have "common wall plumbing" meaning a kitchen and bath or a laundry room and bath share a common water line and drain set. Therefore in a home one may have 3 baths, kitchen, and laundry. usually that means 3 or possibly 4 line sets delivering water in this method, not 7 (it would be useless to do that and cost 3 times as much to do). Aso where sharing the water line, warming the ONE line only is cheaper than warming separate lines. 3/4 squared divided by 1/2 squared is 2.25. This means that if TWO devices share the same supply it is cheaper to serve them with even 3/4 and then branch with 1/2, however one does not need to do that for less than 4 actual devices simultaneous at 2 gpm flows. As all devices are low flow today there is no way that one should ever exceed the flow rate of a 3/4 line serving even 6 or 10 devices. A 10 pound drop in pressure on a 1/2 inch line is 640 gallons per hour, which feeds approximately 10 devices! Another bad idea but saves money over a long time: If one really wants to save $$ in this type of water of system, plumb only cold water and have point of use water heaters. For a bath sink they are very small as they only warm water. For kitchens, laundry and bath use they need to be bigger, but then one does not need to waste more than the water in the riser to the device to warm the water at use. Expensive up front but the BEST savings... THE BEST WAY!!! Now for the TRUTH, A solar water heating system with a fully circulating hot water system in standard 3/4 inch runs with 3/8 or 1/2 inch risers for final delivery is best. One wastes NO water to speak of, the pipes are always hot with water, the length of total run in the house it minimized, there is near zero presssure drop unless more than 8-12 devices are brought on line simultaneously (very rare even with 5 people in a house) in even a single run. THe water in the solar tank actually BOILS and a mixer injects cold water into the stream to reach the 120 degrees you want at your devices. Solar will not only minimize your water waste, but reduce your electric bill an average of 25% EVERY MONTH. Can't get that with any manifold at all and it would not even work well as a solar based delivery as it would be more expensive and harder to circulate the water (which is done using convection and a solar powered small pump).
I live in a house with a manifold system and have the exact problem so many of you have mentioned. It takes forever for hot water to reach my kitchen sink and the dishwasher NEVER gets hot water because it’s full way before the hot water ever gets there. Therefore I have to have a dishwasher that has its own hot water heater. In the bathroom I have to wait for hot water to reach the sink and then wait again for hot water to reach the shower - or even the other sink. I waste lots of formerly hot water while waiting for hot water to reach my point of use. Fortunately my washing machine is close enough to the water heater and manifold to get hot water before the machine fills up.
Hello Nina, How far away is the how water heater from the kitchen faucet. If it is a 1/2" line feeding the sink...it shouldn't take that long. A 3/4 supply will take twice as long. Thanks for commenting and enjoy our day! Al
Hello Nicholas, You're welcome! Headers are used on most domestic systems in residential homes now to provide a better balance of water flow. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello John; Acid can be a pain in the back side. Same problem in this area! They don't make a brass manifold that I am aware of, but that is not saying they don't. I usually make them from tees and nipples. I would recommend a 3/4" manifold. More then enough in size to give you great pressure. Uponor or Wursbo as I call it make a 3/4 plastic header for pex! I have installed a few years ago and have not had any problems as of yet. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
I am not all negative comments btw, I like that you are putting in a header. Would have been nice to see finished pics showing proper valves and unions though ;)
Hey there! I just found you today on RUclips, and I'm very thankful that did. I consider your information a great resource, and I especially appreciate the on Pex. Keep the video rollin'! :-)
i do like the idea and was planning to use it however, someone never mentionned circuit isolation at the source as a benefits. why would you want a manifold for cold and hot water. sure it is expensive to install however, the benefits are higher than if i was not using it. you can isolate each circuit independantly at the source so if you have a leak in the system (pipe, faucet) you can easily close it without shutting the whole house down. you can get the pex pipe quite cheap so, running a 1:1 line is not that expensive let's say you use a trunk line in copper, you have to go 3/4. the 3/4 line takes a while to heat if it is cold (if it was not used in a while) so, this is quite a lot of wasted water. what if the copper is detoriated and has a pinhole leak? shutoff the house. happend too often in my old place, had a 1inch line and had pinhole leaks every 6 month or so. right now im 1/2 and each time i open a faucet while someone take a shower, they hurl because the water get cold or hot suddently. so, im currently reworking my system to have isolated lines to prevent such issues while providing stable pressure. regards
Hello Patrick; The benefits of a manifold is to have a more even supply of water to each faucet should more then one be in use at a time. It also cuts down by 1/2 on the amount of water being used in relationship to the a 3/4 inch line. So every time you are running the hot water; you only need to fill a 1/2" line rather then 3/4" line and this will save money over a period of time. Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
TheOldkid888 Ever thought of the fact that once the hot water has made it to the shower it is only a little more water to go to the bathroom sink? Then you have hot water right there without having to come all the way from the tank and heat another section of pipe.
***** "if I have a leak". GIve me a break. Millions of homes have been built with zero defect plumbing. Never plan on having a bad contractor. If you dont know how to install plumbing, then dont do it at all. Simple answer that will save you thousands of dollars in intallation and time. Now for the physics...it does not add up to an advantage. Lets reduce the amount of water loss by line...but install 9 lines instead of ONE? REmember most HW lines are run to the most used devices first, then the least used. That is just how a house is generally set up. The truth and what really works. Forget manifolds..put in solar water heat, circulate the hot water (solar watr pump) to keep pipes hot as well (circulates very very slowly). This will actually save the homeowner an average of 25% on his electic bill and have ZERO waste water waiting for hot at the device! Average cost is around 5K to handle a family of 4-5 in FL and most of CA etc. A little higher cost in the north but works even in the far north.
Hello Dirk; Not sure if you are familiar with wells or not, but this neck of the woods has thousands of them. A drop in water pressure is an every day occurrence when it comes to running water in these homes. You are not going to see much of a drop on municipal water service, but pumps are completely different. I agree on the solar heated water, but I am not familiar with a system where the water boils and cold water is added to make it tempered? Is this a new system as most I deal with simply have a storage tank that stores it as it is heated. Solar is good, but you must have a lot of sunlight for it to work properly. The lower states have just that. As you head north; they do become more costly.Much much more then 5k depending on the region. Demand water heaters have had many problems in different areas depending on the water quality; whether it is acidic or has a great amount of mineral deposits in it. They tried to implement them in a number of places that I know of and had nothing, but issues. I have seen them in other regions where there are no issues at all and work very well. When you talk about plumbing you have to think past perfect water conditions because they are not very common, but you probably know that! Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Hello Rodger; You are more then welcome! Thanks for the kind words! Big thing is to insulate the pipe coming off the manifold as well! A little insulation will save you some good money over the years and easily pay for itself! Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the project! Al
Actually I started my project with a Tankless eltron 24 Stiebel and bought 1/2 inch Pex however I'm redoing my thinking and going 3/8 off the 3/4 inch line. What ya think? It's not that far to each appliance, say 20 feet at the furthest. I was looking at that plastic manifold with 8 cold and 6 hot outputs. Would like to talk with ya more... Possible? I'm up in Northern Ontario Canada.
Hello Rodger; I don't have a lot of experience in the tankless heaters in this area. Water troubles put the stop to them becoming popular. Ended up having flow switch trouble, but I have seen them in many parts of the world. When they work; they work very well. I checked out the Steibel unit. Looks good. Control on front. Nice and simple. If you are running pex to each fixture; 1/2" is the way to go. Take it off the 3/4 and you will be all set. Not sure if you saw my pex installation series I made. It maybe what you are looking for. I made a 4 part series and tried to cover as much as possible when installing pex. A few tips along the way. Thanks for commenting and let me know if you have any questions! Al
Roger Diotte Are you getting your water from a well? If so, then install a sediment tank before your pressure tank and then filter and soften the water before it gets to your tankless heater. In my mind, using 3/8" PEX over 1/2" will make no real difference in the long run, save for a little more wastage. High quality PEX is good for 130 PSI so if you're worried about volume, then just increase the pressure on your pressure switch.
Yes from a well however I've heard installing the sediment filter after the pressure tank and before the softener was the correct way? I've had this question and was told that the pressure tank may whine for more volume if /when the filter plugs up thus the tank will continously run the pump? But yes I bought a rainfresh sediment filter to install.
I think I want to try exactly what you're talking about. Did You build the manifold yourself? How did you do it? Also thinking I can go 3/8 pex to each endpoint based on flow rates I've calculated. Thoughts?
Hello Curt; I actually bought this manifold. You can make one and it maybe cheaper to do so. I have made a series of videos on installing pex and in Part 4; I do just that for the hot water manifold. This is the name of the video if you are interested... How to install Pex Pipe Waterlines in Your Home! Part 4. Plumbing Tips.... Best of luck with any future projects! Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Sir, I have pushed PEX in all areas where galvanized was and am getting ready to crimp the junctions etc. I have aquestion. I saw these 'stubout' copper pipes at home depot and i wonder where should install them . There were two two-foot long dead end galvanized pipes in the attic near the heater area which are not connected now...Do I really need these and does the city require them ?
Hello Sajid, Sounds like it's going well. You don't need the stub outs for the walls. I believe these are the ones you are talking about. I generally use the wall bracket that makes the pex turn 90 degrees and holds it securely if I am coming out of the wall. If you are coming up through the floor; you will just be adding a valve and then use the3/8th supply to either the faucet or toilet. The pipe that are in the attic are for water hammer. When first installed they contain air and if a faucet is closed quickly; they prevent pipes from banging, but over a short period of time they become waterlogged and serve no purpose. No need of installing them. Thanks for commenting and let me know how you are getting along! Al Good luck!
Great ! So , why do they sell these valve boxes for washing machines with pipe sticking out from both hot and cold valve ? Are they useless ? Will my PEX lines bang if i dont install stubouts ? Thanks for your time.
Hello Sajid, They probably look better then the drain pipe running up the outside of the wall as they are recessed in it. I prefer the old way myself, but that's just me. You won't have any issues with banging with pex. The pipes that were stubbed up in the attic are the ones that prevent water hammer. They are generally put in behind the bathtub faucets. The ones sticking out the wall have nothing to do with any pipes banging. Keeping the pipes clamped where possible will help. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
No recirc pump is required here. Each fixture is fed with its own line off the header. Feeding each fixture with a 1/2" line rather then running a 3/4 hot water cuts down on the amount of hot water used by 50%. I have installed only a few recirc pumps in a few houses and the were considerably long runs from the tank to the fixture. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
G'day mate, I'm recycling a couple of hot water solar panels for my off grid cabin and I wondered if you could give me some advice on the simplest method to join the two panel together. I was going with pex pipe and not having any plumbing experience wonder how to get the pipe to fit easily between the two fixed panels.
Hello Mirriulah Water Dog, Pex will break down with the sun beating down over it. Depending on the name brand; it could last as long as a month for you. This being said; you can use pex if you are planning on covering it with some cheap foam insulation. You don't know off hand what size the pipe is on the panels you are planning on joining. I would consider poly pipe myself. Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance....Al
Thanks mate... I'm getting the impression that pex might not be the way to go so the fittings are 1" and I will probably use copper now to join the 2 panels together.
I bought a house with one of these already present and it worked beautifully, until we had to replace the water heater ,,, then it started to leak. Unsure why , but my plumber said that one of the entry ports " cracked " and he wants to replace the entire unit. Does this sound right ?
Hello Craig, It could happen. Not very common, but it could be a poor soldering job during the manufacturing and showed up at this time. Pain in the backside, but you will have to get it done! Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
great video! question regarding the line sizing...are you coming out of the hot side of the water heater to the manifold in 3/4" then everything running to each fixture is just 1/2"?
Hello chuckAWD, Yes. That is correct. Feeding the manifold with 3/4 and the lines off the manifold are 1/2". Running a 3/4 hot line down the length of the house uses twice the amount of water as compared to half inch. Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
+TheOldkid888 thanks a bunch for the reply! I'm repipiping my whole house (860ft^2) with shower/tub, bathroom sink, toilet, kitchen sink, dishwasher, and 2 outside hose bibs. Is it standard practice to run 3/4" lines for all of the cold and then just the 1/2" lines for all of the hot? I worry only about not getting enough volume with 1/2" lines.
chuckAWD I generally run a 3/4 cold line through the house taking branches of as a need them using a 3/4 by 3/4 by 1/2 tees and use a 3/4 by 1/2 by 1/2 tee at the end of my run feeding my last two fixtures. I bring the 3/4 manifold off the water heater and run all 1/2 inch lines to the fixture. You will have no worries as far as volume goes. Since you only have the one bathroom you can get away with taking a 3/4 line off the tank and running it up to the joists and branching off with a 1/2 line to the kitchen and another to the bathroom. One 1/2 inch line feeding the bathroom should do as there is generally one person in the bathroom at a time. Do you have a gas,oil or electric water heater? Are you changing any faucets? Do you have a well or are you on municipal water? Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance...Al
+TheOldkid888 Excellent! Thanks again. I am having a new well drilled at my house. The driller sizes the pump to the tank and leaves me with everything installed up to a 3/4" quarter turn ball valve right after the pressure tank and I take it from there. I was originally going to build a manifold system right off the pressure tank with individual lines for each fixture but if that's extreme over kill, I will do as you say and run basically 2 main 3/4" branches. 1 hot and 1 cold towards the kitchen and bathroom then branch off to fixtures from there with 1/2" so long as it won't effect the volume of water flow which is the only thing I'm not sure how to calculate or compute. My goal is to have excellent water pressure throughout the house with excellent volume as well. I very much look forward to your response. Thank you very much for your advice!!
+TheOldkid888 Also I will have an electric water heater. currently the house is on a boiler system which wasn't winterized properly and every piece of copper in the house blew out over the winter which is why I'm repiping everything.
Hello Ron, I can't say that I have on that one. I have made a video where I made a manifold in my series on Part 4. I believe you saw that. Manifolds are very common now. In my area many people have wells and the pressure will fluctuate 20 pounds before the pump cuts in and a manifold system helps maintain a constant flow of water if another fixture is turned on. I always ran 3/4 cold and hot lines in homes, but in order to get hot water to a faucet thirty feet away you would have to fill the entire section of 3/4 pipe with hot water. A run of half inch pipe would be half the amount as compared to 3/4. Over time you would save a considerable amount of money. Hope this helps! Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
will 3/4 inch copper pipe from water pump to fawcets give more pressure than using 3/4 inch part of the way and then using 1/2 inch?...does a bigger diameter pipe give more pressure at the fawcets? thanks in advance for your answer...
Hello pei bossman; A 3/4" pipe just gives more volume. 3/4' is roughly twice the volume of 1/2" I usually run 3/4 cold and supply all the fixtures in the house with that. Then I will run a manifold off the hot water tank to give equal volume to every fixture. Sometimes I will run 1... 1/2" hot water line to a bathroom and split a line supplying the tub and basin. Another reason manifolds are becoming so popular is they supply a constant pressure to all the fixtures. I think everyone can remember being in a shower and getting a blast of hot or cold when another fixture was turned on. Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
Hello. Great video. I see you mentioned that the installer should have used a 3/4 in. cold water feed to the heater, for adequate water volume going out to the 3/4 in. hot water. I understand your point. Now, in regards to using the 1 in. manifold that has 1/2 in. branches, should the cold water feed still be 3/4 in. or should it be raised to a 1 in. cold water feed? Thanks, Marc.
I'm planning on installing an manifold when I re-pipe with Pex, but my instant water heater only has 1/2 inch fittings. Should I run 3/4 from the softener to the water heater and reduce it down and then the same back to the manifold? or should I run 1/2 inch all of the way?
Hello Steve, I would run 3/4 to it and 1/2 from the outlet. Increasing the size of the pipe on the outlet will not give you any more volume as the water has to leave through the 1/2" outlet. Are you on municipal water? Generally the pressure is very good. How many showers in the house? Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
Thanks for the reply and info. The house has a new 4 inch well with a 1 inch supply and the pressure is around 60 psi. I have 1 shower 2 sinks and a washing machine. I'm hoping with the supply I have and proper plumbing, I can eliminate pressure drop that sometimes occurs.
Hello Steve, You will have some pressure drop being on a well that cannot be eliminated if you have a number of fixtures open at one time. I have been on wells my entire life. I generally run a 3/4 cold line and take all my branches off to every fixture as I pipe it. I run a header from the water heater and take 1/2 " lines off that. One thing that I always suggest when repiping any home is a pressure balancing posi-temp shower faucet by Moen. Excellent product. The biggest feature of this faucet is if there is a drop in pressure either on the hot or cold; the temperature doesn't change. I always use Moen myself. I have made a 4 part series of installing pex and I also have a video on installing the posi-temp Moen. May help with your project. I have seen manifolds from both the cold and hot source with separate lines run from each branch off the manifold. No fittings are required in between the source and the fixture. The pipe is clamped and connected to the manifold and run directly to the faucet or toilet. Thanks for commenting and feel free to ask as questions! Al
Thanks for all of your help, Its good to know that pressure drop is unavoidable at times, that will prevent some frustration on my part. The way my house is designed I wont have any run of pex longer than 10 ft, in this situation is there any advantage to one or the other of the methods you describe? My original intent was to use a manifold and have shut off valves for each branch on the hot and cold, but that may be overkill, also since I'm only going to have 1/2 inch pipe from the water heater I'm wondering if the manifold for the hot side may have possibly have a negative affect? I'll definitely use the moen fixture when I remodel the bathroom, I think Ive confirmed that no one in the family has any heart conditions after being shocked with freezing water so many times. Ive got your videos in the watch list, I'm looking forward to watching them. Thanks again.
Honestly these have never made sense to me. If you have a bathroom with a soaker tub, shower, and a double lav. that's 4 hot lines. I don't get where it makes sense to run 4 lines to one bathroom. Now you have to wait for each fixture to get hot. Traditionally once you got one fixture hot all the others would already be hot. If your bathroom is 80' from the heater you will waste so much water waiting for each fixture to get hot. If you want to save water install water saver aerators.
Hello Crystal; You run twice the hot water if you run a 3/4" line as compared to 1/2". It also helps to keep a steady pressure to each fixture. Many people are more interested in this then anything, especially if you have a few fixtures going at the same time. Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Hello Michael; If you run a 2 inch line and are using hot water, you have to fill that 2 inch pipe before the water gets to the branch. Once that line is filled then it is the amount of water that the fixture uses. Using a 3/4 line means you fill that line which is twice the volume of 1/2" before you take the 1/2" branch off. That is what I mean by the previous statement.... Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
Hello NassguI;I am in big time favor with the manifold idea!You have to keep in mind even though you are going with a feed for each fixture that the chances of pulling it through the floor from above to each fixture are next to impossible.I know you will be able to pull the pipe up to that floor,keep in mind that there are several bends once the pipe gets up there and you will need a hatch in the ceiling or have to cut a section of the floor out to get the pipe to the fixture.Get back to me..Al
How do you figure that you use more water with a 3/4 line than with a 1/2 inch line? My washing machine and dishwasher (and sink for that matter) all take a specific amount of water to run. the 1/2 line is just going to take longer to fill the appliance. Then there is the issue of pressure, if you have the 3/4 line trying to force more water through your shower head would you not get 'better' water pressure? Finally, if you have a large soaking tub, the water could be cold by the time the 1/2 inch line fills it.
Hello Douglas, A half inch line isn't going to take any longer than a 3/4 line. Your fixtures will only allow so much water to flow through them. If your pressure is constant which in most cases it is; having a 3/4 line will not allow any more water to come out of your shower. You could have a 2 inch line there and you are only going to get so much water. Inside most faucets the ports are only about a 1/4 of an inch in size and are only going to allow so much water to flow through them. Only if the pressure is increased will you get more water. If you have a large soaker tub you can easily supply it with a 1/2 inch line and have no issues. I have done it many times using manifolds and you have no worries of the water being cold by the time it arrives. Pressure is what dictates how fast the water will flow out of a faucet. Low pressure...low flow. That being said; if you have a number of fixtures using water at the same time; you will get a pressure drop. I generally run 3/4 cold line throughout the home. Let's say you have fifty feet of 3/4 pipe; both hot and cold. So you turn on the hot water tap in the bathroom and wait for the water to arrive. The water that was in the pipe has cooled down and all the water in the 3/4 pipe has to be purged out of the faucet top allow the hot water to get to the faucet. So now you have filled the 3/4 pipe again with hot water. Give it about twenty minutes and it has cooled down again. So the cycle of filling the 3/4 pipe goes on for years. The water has cooled and been purged and the pipe has been refilled with hot water. Hundreds of times by now. A 1/2 inch pipe contains half the volume of 3/4. So if a half inch pipe had been run; you would have used half the hot water to supply hot water to the faucet for all those years and saved a considerable amount of money. Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
I think the cross sectional area of the 3/4 vs 1/2 line is obviously more, this means there is more volume in the 3/4 line. This volume gets cold. When you turn on the shower, you have to purge all that cold water before hot water starts to flow. Whereas if you ran a 1/2 line to the shower, you would only have to purge half as much water (and heat 1/2 as much water) before you would get a nice hot shower. Plus, when you shut the shower off, you would only allow 1/2 as much water to cool down. I think that was the point of this.
Hello NassguI; Are you planning on running all new pex pipe and fittings and removing the qest pipe? When you are saying pulling it through; is there an area that you cannot see? You can feed pex pipe just like a fish tape if you are installing it through a ceiling that is covered with gyproc. there is a little trick to it and that is to shave the end of the pipe to a point on one side. Thanks for commenting and get back to me on the questions I have left for you when you get a chance! Al
Piping a hot water manifold could be great, but it depends on the layout of the house. Some houses it makes more sense to do two 3/4" pipes down the length of the house and tee off for each bathroom or fixture. In reality the plumbing, or at least the hot side should be well insulated anyway. I like the manifold when you can't access the tees such as a slab or a finished basement. Then you can valve off each appliance/bathroom at the manifold.
Hello skoronesa, I installed the waterlines in that manner for about 25 years until I started using pex. I always ran two 3/4 lines..hot and cold and branched off along the way. I still run a 3/4 cold in all homes, but I have changed with the manifold on the hot. The only reason is 1/2" pipe is half the volume as compared to 3/4. Over time you will save a considerable amount of money. Instead of filling the 3/4 pipe each time to get the water to the branch; you only fill the 1/2 and the hot water gets there faster. Totally agree on the insulation. Makes a huge difference. Especially on loing runs. Thanks for commenting and have a good one! Al
I think the benefit of insulation can not be overstated. If you insulate well enough it really doesn't matter how you pipe the system. Unless you want to add in a recirc line on most or all of the hots, in which case you'd be better off not doing a manifold. I wouldn't suggest either is always better, the only surefire cure is good insulation.
Hello NassguI; Pulling pipe to the top floor should not a big problem as long as the holes going through the first floor are big enough for a fitting to go through. I have done this several times with copper and and pex and it is quite easy to do. You must be planning on cutting a hole or a hatch in the floor to install tees and 90's once the pipe is up there to make your attachments are you or are you planning on taking the floor up? Thanks for commenting and get back to me! Al
You're not using more water with the larger pipe, unless you were referring to flow restriction. I assume you meant heat dissipation which isn't a volume issue but a surface area issue. You said you are going to insulate the pipe so downsizing it will do little to affect the heat loss.
Hello skoronesa, That's correct. Definitely not using more water as you can only get so much out of a fixture at a time. I use to run both 3/4 hot and cold lines in every house and take 1/2" branches off throughout the house. I still run my 3/4 cold and install a manifold on the hot with 1/2" lines coming from it. What I was trying to get at in this video was pipe size and volume. As we know; 3/4 pipe has a volume twice that of 1/2". Every time a faucet is opened; in order to get hot water through a 3/4 line from the top of the tank; the pipe has to be replenished with hot water before it gets hot at the faucet. If you have a long run say 40 feet of 3/4 as a hot line, that is a lot of hot water over a year. That is why I am a big fan of the header. 1/2" lines using half the hot water as compared to 3/4 feeding a faucet. Pressure balance in the house is another reason. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
It seems to me that the additional piping that this installation would require, and the difference between the amount of water in a 1/2 inch pipe to be heated as opposed to a 3/4 inch pipe would make the pay back unreasonable. I used to use the mana block system that owens corning had back in the early nineties. I really didn't see that it was really that good of a system. If the piping system is properly sized, there should be no problem with water volume.
Hello contact58; Using a manifold system easily pays for itself over time. Insulation on the piping will also help. Over the number of years that it will be in use; it will pay for itself several times over. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
The 1/2" brass nipple is hardly a restriction compared to the lengths of 3/4" pex and fittings. It would seem to me that they only had one 3/4" valve so they used a 1/2" they had.
Hello skoronesa, I would say they only had one valve as well. They should have skipped it all together. They should have only installed one on the cold as it is against code to have one on the out going hot. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
The proper term is "water heater". That is the only term. All code councils will support this. No such thing as hot water heaters or hot water tanks. I do enjoy your videos old kid by the way. Regards, tom. Licensed master plumber and plumbing contractor.
If copper had bacteria killing properties, the process piping in food and beverage plants would be copper. But, as we all know, it is not copper but stainless steel.and the fittings are not sweat, threaded, or compression due to their unsanitary nature. So, if Mr. J Thomas Rains Jr. is serious about quality, skill level being involved, and inhibition of bacteria he should really be advocating that home water supplies be constructed of stainless steel tubing joined by sanitary welds...
Hello 070basemetal; I guess it comes down to everyones own opinion. I for one have no problem using pex. I had someone leave a comment about copper killing bacteria. The farthest thing from the truth. As long as municipal water is being treated with the proper level of chlorine; bacteria isn't an issue. It is only when the chlorine level is not at the proper level that problems can occur. Wells are a different story. UV protection can take care of any problems that may arise with bad bacteria, but are not used frequently. Only testing of well water is the way to be certain harmful bacteria exists. I couldn't imagine stainless piping with welded joints in homes for domestic water lines. LOL...I guess that would be considered a high skill level for sure. Thanks for commenting and have a great New Year! Al
I have been in the trade for nearly 30 yrs now and so, have watched as new piping and new ideas have been introduced. When I first ran PEX piping I was told by my employer to "home run" all the water lines from each fixture. My immediate thoughts were, why would anyone want to do this? Hundreds of feet of pipe, much more labor and this does not improve on the efficiency of the hot water system at all. It is a waste of time and money. You want to have efficient volume and get hot water to the fixtures as fast as possible? Here is what should be done. Run 3/4 hot and cold to each bathroom, run a third 1/2 inch line to each bathroom to recirculate the hot water. Tie all these 1/2 inch recirc lines together back at the hot water tank in to the 3/4 inch cold water supply to the tank and install a recirc pump there. If there is concern about heat loss from the recirc lines as they loop throughout the house then insulate them. This "home running the water lines was a ridiculous idea from the beginning and as predicted by guys like me, is not being used so much anymore.
Hello Steven, The recirc line is definitely the way to go with a bronze pump, but it is a little costly and most homeowners don't want to pay the extra price. I have installed a few for those who wanted it, but it does cost a little more. A little patience in waiting for the hot water to arrive is much cheaper. That is the reason for the 1/2 inch supply coming off the manifold rather the 3/4 as it is half the volume. I always ran 3/4 cold and hot, but have switched to the manifold with 1/2 inch branches. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Well water. copper in the past infected blue minerals on copper line. An earlier repair found acid just a bit high. Plumber recommended remove copper home is all Pex he installed 1 inch water feed to 3/4 custom made manifold brass and pvc cold side.He left the hot side manifold because it had plenty of time before it would need replacing r We just had a hot water heater installed but the installer made a manifold from brass and pvc but 1/2 to 8 lines of 1/2 pex. water is greatly much reduced.
@onceadrm hello there.I have seen heat traps come on some hot water heaters themselves. No plumbing suppliers sell them here and I called all 4.The point I was making in this video is the way that plumbing has been done in the past and how it is changing. One point in particular was running 1/2" pipe to each fixture instead of a 3/4 hot water line and branching off to the fixture.1/2" pipe has half the volume as 3/4".Insulating the pipes makes a major difference as well.Thanks for commenting. Al
@sonnysand Hello sonny; The thumbs up may just be a small glitch and they will correct it in no time. I haven't done a video on changing an anode yet, but when I have to replace one I will for you. A socket and power handle work best to remove them as they can feel like they are welded in place at times.. Thanks for commenting and have a great day!!! Al
Hello BorisandChromeLuxx, The Manabloc is pretty popular today. I have been running into problems with the shut offs on them. Very difficult to close. Have you had any issues yourself? Not only those valves, but many pex ball valves as well. And not just one manufacturer. I know watwer is an issue and perhaps that is what the problem is in this area. Thanks for commenting and enjoy oyur weekend! Al
This is not the best idea, because if you do not use a branch, then the bacteria can multiply in it. Rather, you should build a hot water circulation pipe system. Tom Europe Hungary
Hey u OldKid88 Thank you for returning to me on my question and I thank you on your genuine care to be a real help. I hope some day to meet you in this life. Well with all that said I don't know if you ever herd this but you sound allot like Nicolas Cage the actor, LOL. I wonder if anyone can concur? Thank you John
Hello North Perth Plumbers; You are more then welcome! Can be big savings depending on the length of the run. Much cheaper to run hot water through a 1/2" line rather then a 3/4" line. I ran cold and hot 3/4 mains for a long time and have now use a manifold off the hot water tank for this reason. Half the volume. Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
Why not add a heat trap coming out of the water heater which will prevent the hot water from creeping out? I have been doing this for years and it works excellent. If you want instant hot water run a 1/2" return line from the farthest and highest fixture back to the cold feed on the water heater with a check valve of course. I have installed this in lots of houses over the years keep in mind since it is running on gravity it will take a while to get going the first time.
Hello skoronesa, I wouldn't be changing the tank if the nipple was bad on it. It would be much easier to change the nipple or dip tube. That would make more sense to me. Why would you want to charge the homeowner for a tank replacement when it would be much cheaper to replace either smaller item. Thanks for commenting and have yourself a great weekend! Al
skoronesa1 day agoI am not all negative comments btw, I like that you are putting in a header. Would have been nice to see finished pics showing proper valves and unions though ;)
@tpdeehan hello; The reason that manifolds are used is to give even pressure throughout the home for one reason. Running a number of 1/2 inch lines in pex off of this manifold will save you money if it is hot water. If you run a 3/4 hot line in your home; you have doubled the amount of hot water and if it goes 30 feet each time you run the faucet; you have wasted a lot of hot water over a year. By running 1/2" pex off the manifold to every fixture; you save money. Enjoy 2012!!! Al
Hello Dodd, Definitely. The longer the run; the bigger the drop. I always ran hot 3/4 mains years ago. Once the headers came into play I would say that many plumbers went that route. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello Jack, We don't have 3/8th in our region and never have. You would want to run 1/2" pipe for a long run as the pressure would drop considerably. That being said 3/8th would drop the volume that much more. Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
thanks for the video, sorry the water saving part did not make sense, i went back and watched twice, but it did not make sense. I will need to do more research
+Rashid Khan the water in the pipe is ambient room temperature, when hot water is needed, the cool water flows a while until the pipes are filled with hot water. on a given distance, the 1/2 in line holds half the water of 3/4, resulting in the hot water getting to the faucet in half the time, and half the amount of cold incoming water refills the water heater, just to get the line hot.
Im not so sure your therory about only using half is correct.... So by your logic if the supply line, lets say is an 8inch farm irrigation pvc pipe... To calc this out will be tough. Every 1/4 inch pipe size increase doubles the amout of water exited/ used. There are +30 1/4 inch increases from 1/2 to 8 inch... So to double every one 30x.. Im almost positive niagra falls wont produce enough water to supply that pipe...maybe your correct about a very very smal percentage increase in waste. But water supply is always a constant 50-80 psi weather city supplied or from a pressure tank... I think its same usage throughout oversizing... Im an up an comer in specifics trades and i enjoy a good descussion... Also enjoy learning new ideas and ways........No hard feelings intended watsoever
Hello Jack, No worries there.... Like one myself. Volume in piping works like this...For every pipe you DOUBLE in size; the volume increases 4 times. Of all the things that I remember in trade school 38 years ago volume was one and I still enjoy math. A 1/2 inch piece of pipe 1 long holds .008 of a gallon. A 1" piece of pipe 1 foot long holds .033 of a gallon. A 2" piece of pipe 1 foot long holds .135 of a gallon. So 3/4 holds roughly .016 of a gallon. That 8 inch piece a foot long holds 2.171 gallons. So by running 3/4 let's say 40 feet in a home; then branching off to feed 2 sinks you have used twice as much hot water as compared to 1/2" I use to run 3/4 hot and cold mains and take branches off like I mentioned before. Running a 1/2" line will save you money over time. Every time you want hot water at that sink you have to fill the entire 3/4 line first. By the way...all water pressure in homes is not 50 to 80 pounds. Many pumps switches are as low as 20/40. I have seen hundreds of them over the years. These switches come in 20/40, 30/50 and 40/60. City pressures are different in every city as well. 50/80 would be great, but that is not the case. Some cities perhaps, but I have seen pressures as low as 22 pounds in one city. Thanks for commenting and enjoy the weekend! Al
Jack F If the lines to a group of fixtures require more than 25 feet, the set of fixtures should be fed with a 3/4 inch line to a header that has a 1/2 inch return line that will allow a circulating pump to keep the water in the 3/4 inch line hot. Both these lines need to be insulated to minimize the heat loss! This will provide instant hot water in bathrooms and kitchens! This will save water, heat, and even the users hands by preventing them from developing arthritis from washing their hands in cold water all the time!
I just want to say, I believe it will save you money on the use of your hot water heater, but that will be offset by the volume of water you use in your home. In the manifold system, every fixture will draw an independent flow of water from the water heater to the faucet or outlet. If you are in one bathroom and that bathroom is at the other end of the house or the second floor, when you shave you wait for the hot water to get to the faucet. Then when you jump in the shower you wait exactly the same amount of time for the hot water to get to the shower. All the cold water runs right down the drain, unused. It is more efficient to run a single pipe to the bathroom, because the odds are in the morning you are going to use both the lav and the shower. The absolute best is to have a on demand water heater for each bathroom. Ray VinZant Plumbing Engineer and Master.
I think the benefit of insulation can not be overstated. If you insulate well enough it really doesn't matter how you pipe the system. Unless you want to add in a recirc line on most or all of the hots, in which case you'd be better off not doing a manifold. I wouldn't suggest either is always better, the only surefire cure is good insulation.
OldKid : (1940 House) My Main in Basement(has a Ground Wire soldered to it) outta the Wall is 1", at the Shut-Off Valve(12" from Wall) is 3/4". Do you recommend when I PEXed the heck outta the Basement, I run 3/4" as far as I can, THEN Branch with 1/2" to ALL fixtures ? I have 20 tons of Galv. and 30 lbs. of Copper, with the Icing on the Cake of FUGLY Cast Iron to Terlet, Suwer, and Vanity. I outta send the previous owners all the scrap, C.O.D. !! Lastly. NO ONE can answer this one(I have PIC). where my Cold comes down from Tub,it has a Weird looking "Thermostat-looking -Thing" in a Case connected to it, which connects in my FuseBox. Funky Ground? HUH ??? On the Cold, what the heck ??? Can't afford "Manifold"(let alone do a Complete Galv/Copper Swap-out to Home Side @ the Corporate Stop), but can afford that $359 Starter Kit tho. "DIYcauseIcant".
Hello missmyredwolf; LOL!!! You are still going to need that ground wire connected somewhere as it grounds your panel more then likely. You can run the lines a few ways. You can run a 3/4 line like you say from your cold and one from your hot water tank and branch off at every faucet or set up a header at the hot water tank and one at the cold supply main and run separate 1/2 inch lines to each fixture. The second option gives you a more constant volume. I have been running a 3/4 cold main and taking off tees to each fixture and then a header off my hot tank and run separate lines from there to each faucet. Take that scrap material to the junk dealer...he will probably give you a few dollars for it. ;) Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
TheOldkid888 NO !!!, Thank you for REcommenting "Oldwhoukidding888". I appreciate your comment. Now that I got your UNdivided attention from counting all your money, please answer these questions, as the expert that you are. Then I'll leave you alone(maybe) j/k. 1) A Website(won't spam) have Copper(Closed End) in 3/4/6/8/10 1/2" PEX Outlets for GREAT low prices(as well as the BIG Manifolds). SO, your saying get one HOT for H/W Tank(in the Vicinity of, over 18") then do my Branches to fixtures. Then 1 for Cold(Main) and do their Branches ? Forgot, Property is only 6,600 sq/f total, with dwelling only 864 sq/f 1-1/2 Bed,Ranch. 2) Is this what you experts call "Home-Run", that I am proposing, or is this just a "Double-Play" beings that my place is small compared to the huge houses ? Hopefully, with LESS connectors,tees, etc, the flow will increase. I think our pressure in town is like between 44-55psi. If I gauged it at my outside spigot, it'll give me a "go by" of what totally JUST my house is or City ?? 3) I read your comment to Patrick and it HELPED greatly. Pressure at select fixtures is not impressive(but not bad), but like everyone, flush and the "shower person" screams. Have new Delta HF to install in shower so, Oldkid,, from the Cold Main should I connect small 3/4" mini-fold as close to wall or lengthen the whole distance of basement with 3/4", then connect 1/2" fixtures for HIGHer pressure throughout ?? THEN, at W/H another, or lengthen that farther out? 4) plasticpipe.org/pdf/pex_designguide_residential_water_supply.pdf is what REALLY helped me Pg. 36/38. If this is SPAM Oldkid, please delete it with my apologizes. Just wanted to help others like me, just getting started. Been 15yr OTR Driver, and a 12yr. Navy Vet, BUT NEVER done 100% Plumb. If the "masters" out there asked me about the latter 2 professions I had....they'd look dumb. I have been "self-teaching" myself in the last 14 days, and the stuff I've learned is wow to me, no on time experience though, but I feel alot is coming(look forward to it). THX OldKid, appreciate the respect. 5) Lastly. To do my 1" Main from wall to 3/4" threaded to PEX, I have to get (sources recommend MALE not FEMALE) threaded end 3/4" NPT MALE x 3/4" PEX. They say the NPT MALE could be worn and I have to obtain a "dialectric" fixture or something due to disimilar metal to different material. Is this true?
Hello missmyredwolf; You can buy a manifold for the cold and the hot water. You do not need to run 2 separate 1/2 inch lines to the bathroom if you don't want to. You can get away with just one line and tee off to the basin and tub if you wish as the chances of both fixtures being run at the same time are low; so you won't have any concern of a drop in volume. Many people do run an individual line for every fixture. A constant 40 pounds of pressure is very good. Many wells are as low as 20 pounds, but if the piping is balanced you still have constant volume. One thing that has made a major difference when it comes to pressure problems in bathrooms...(You get a blast of hot or cold water while in the shower when another faucet is used)...is posi temp faucets. They balance the faucet and keep a steady temperature while in the shower. I use a 3/4 cold and take branches off in most homes and run a separate manifold for the hot., but have also installed manifolds for hot and cold that works exactly the same in my books. I know from what you are telling me that you can handle the job. If you are going from copper to brass; you really don't need a dialectric union although many people use them, but I have joined brass to copper for many years and have had no issues. If you are going from galvanized to copper; you should purchase one. I have made a 4 part series for repiping a home with pex pipe. ...How to Install Pex Pipe Waterlines in Your Home . Step 1 Plumbing Tips... It shows the fittings used and how I install the lines... Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
Am I missing something here? How is the pipe size going to save you money? You pay for consumption so how the water gets there doesn't effect your consumption. As far as hot water goes, you have to empty the pipe of cold water before you get hot water. So the larger the pipe the more cold water it will hold so the more water you will waist while flushing that pipe clear of cold water. So you will actually increase the consumption on the hot water side if you increase the pipe size and that will cost you more.
Hello shayne, You will increase the consumption if the pipe size is larger...Correct! Running a 1/2 inch pipe rather than a 3/4 inch pipe will save you money as a 3/4" pipe has twice the volume as a 1/2" pipe. If you have to empty this 3/4 hot pipe that is run 40 feet away on a daily basis a number of times; you need to heat that extra water that it takes to fill the 3/4 every time. I am a fan of these headers for this reason and besides they help to give equal flow to the faucets when more than one is running. Your last statement was correct. Increase your pipe size and increase your cost. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
I do like your ideas and your work looks professinal.... However i beleive your system there is a bit wastefull and requires alot more work and materials.... I plumb new school i guess... Your princeable seems like each fixture needing hot water is alone and nowhere near other fixtures requiring hot water.. Like a. rogue comet flying independant in our galaxy..... However why not have just a 3 tap manifold using 3/4 fittings and just running one 3/4 pipe to commonly a bathroom then 1/2 taps into that.... Basically why have all those long 1/2 runs streching miles to go to each fixture, when one or two 3/4 inch runs will get all the hot water u need there,,, waaaay lesss material Way less holes to drill or work involved. Water stays hotter longer when massed together... Your way isnt effficent to send all these lil mcdonalds straws spiderwebed thruout the house. Those little lines cool much more rapidly the way u install them.. Even tho u say ur gonna put alll this money in time and insulation to wrap them or install mini waer heaters to reheat them along there travel...... Here it is... Is it more effeciant to have 9 employees all drive there own mustangs from there town they all live in to the jobsite across state? Or is it better that they all meet up to start and all go in one dodge magnum and use one engine to get them to same place rather than 9 engines? Ol school still works but with a lil more thinking and planning can be way better and less wastefull by a hellova lott......
Hello Jack, Years back I always ran a 3/4 cold and 3/4 hot and took my branches off along the way. In doing this I doubled the amount of hot water that needed to flow to the fixture By running 1/2" pipe you only use one half of the hot water and over time it will easily pay for itself. Since this video was made I began using other manifolds that are considerably cheaper or I make them out of a few tees depending on the amount of fixtures in the house. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
I was with you unit you suggested I take Magnum instead of a Mustang. lol. But yes I agree. I'm not a plumber but common sense suggest your way. That's what I'm going to do. Thanks.
@tpdeehan I think what he is saying is that when you turn the hot water on, it takes a while before the water coming out is actually hot, since there is a volume of fluid in the distal line that has had time to cool after it goes through the water heater. With a large diameter distal line there is more volume, so more water is wasted before you step into the shower. A manifold and small diameter pipes minimize that waste at each use....
What a waste of copper.. water flow is determined by the fixture ..GPM ... not by the size of the copper line run to it. So if I ran a 1 1/4" line to my sink, would I use more water then a 1/2" line?
I think what they were saying is that if the hot water was not insulated and used regularly, it would take a lot more time/water to purge that 1 1/4" line's volume of water before hot water arrived at the fixture. Then once the line is cut off, all the water in the line goes cold again. Over time, this results in a lot of wasted water and water heating costs vs just piping a 1/2" line to each fixture in the house off this manifold.
Not a fan of pex anyways. Copper water supply and distribution is more quality and requires more skill. Maybe that's the old school in me but pex is not 'real' plumbing. Sorry.
kurt knapp Copper does take more time to install. No doubt about it. I have been in the trade for 35 years now and was very skeptical about pex when it came on board. After doing several test and getting to know the products; it is my go to as far as piping goes. I have used three different system since then and have had great success. Pex is an excellent product in my books, but there are times when copper still has to be used. Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
I'm sure that's what the engineers in Rome thought thousands of years ago too about their systems. The fact is as time progresses so does technology. You can be stuck in your ways or move a long. Ask Kodak how the stuck in their ways method worked for them when digital cameras came into play. Copper is still a great medium, but it is very expensive and it continues to increase leaving few people the option to use it.
Hey there! I just found you today on RUclips, and I'm very thankful that did. I consider your information a great resource, and I especially appreciate the on Pex. Keep the video rollin'! :-)
Развлечения
For the BEST way skip to the bottom:
The ONLY possible savings is if one is running the hot water until the water at the device gets hot. Most houses have "common wall plumbing" meaning a kitchen and bath or a laundry room and bath share a common water line and drain set.
Therefore in a home one may have 3 baths, kitchen, and laundry. usually that means 3 or possibly 4 line sets delivering water in this method, not 7 (it would be useless to do that and cost 3 times as much to do). Aso where sharing the water line, warming the ONE line only is cheaper than warming separate lines.
3/4 squared divided by 1/2 squared is 2.25. This means that if TWO devices share the same supply it is cheaper to serve them with even 3/4 and then branch with 1/2, however one does not need to do that for less than 4 actual devices simultaneous at 2 gpm flows. As all devices are low flow today there is no way that one should ever exceed the flow rate of a 3/4 line serving even 6 or 10 devices. A 10 pound drop in pressure on a 1/2 inch line is 640 gallons per hour, which feeds approximately 10 devices!
Another bad idea but saves money over a long time:
If one really wants to save $$ in this type of water of system, plumb only cold water and have point of use water heaters. For a bath sink they are very small as they only warm water. For kitchens, laundry and bath use they need to be bigger, but then one does not need to waste more than the water in the riser to the device to warm the water at use. Expensive up front but the BEST savings...
THE BEST WAY!!!
Now for the TRUTH, A solar water heating system with a fully circulating hot water system in standard 3/4 inch runs with 3/8 or 1/2 inch risers for final delivery is best. One wastes NO water to speak of, the pipes are always hot with water, the length of total run in the house it minimized, there is near zero presssure drop unless more than 8-12 devices are brought on line simultaneously (very rare even with 5 people in a house) in even a single run. THe water in the solar tank actually BOILS and a mixer injects cold water into the stream to reach the 120 degrees you want at your devices.
Solar will not only minimize your water waste, but reduce your electric bill an average of 25% EVERY MONTH. Can't get that with any manifold at all and it would not even work well as a solar based delivery as it would be more expensive and harder to circulate the water (which is done using convection and a solar powered small pump).
I live in a house with a manifold system and have the exact problem so many of you have mentioned. It takes forever for hot water to reach my kitchen sink and the dishwasher NEVER gets hot water because it’s full way before the hot water ever gets there. Therefore I have to have a dishwasher that has its own hot water heater. In the bathroom I have to wait for hot water to reach the sink and then wait again for hot water to reach the shower - or even the other sink. I waste lots of formerly hot water while waiting for hot water to reach my point of use. Fortunately my washing machine is close enough to the water heater and manifold to get hot water before the machine fills up.
Hello Nina,
How far away is the how water heater from the kitchen faucet. If it is a 1/2" line feeding the sink...it shouldn't take that long. A 3/4 supply will take twice as long.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy our day! Al
old video but it helped me understand the basic of a water manifold THANKS!!
Hello Nicholas,
You're welcome!
Headers are used on most domestic systems in residential homes now to provide a better balance of water flow.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Hello John;
Acid can be a pain in the back side. Same problem in this area!
They don't make a brass manifold that I am aware of, but that is not saying they don't. I usually make them from tees and nipples. I would recommend a 3/4" manifold. More then enough in size to give you great pressure.
Uponor or Wursbo as I call it make a 3/4 plastic header for pex! I have installed a few years ago and have not had any problems as of yet.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
Thank you for uploading some of your experience in video form. Very informative.
I am not all negative comments btw, I like that you are putting in a header. Would have been nice to see finished pics showing proper valves and unions though ;)
Hey there! I just found you today on RUclips, and I'm very thankful that did. I consider your information a great resource, and I especially appreciate the on Pex. Keep the video rollin'! :-)
That's very interesting! Installing hot water manifold that can save you money. Thanks for sharing this useful information.
i do like the idea and was planning to use it
however, someone never mentionned circuit isolation at the source as a benefits.
why would you want a manifold for cold and hot water. sure it is expensive to install however, the benefits are higher than if i was not using it.
you can isolate each circuit independantly at the source so if you have a leak in the system (pipe, faucet) you can easily close it without shutting the whole house down.
you can get the pex pipe quite cheap so, running a 1:1 line is not that expensive
let's say you use a trunk line in copper, you have to go 3/4. the 3/4 line takes a while to heat if it is cold (if it was not used in a while) so, this is quite a lot of wasted water.
what if the copper is detoriated and has a pinhole leak? shutoff the house. happend too often in my old place, had a 1inch line and had pinhole leaks every 6 month or so.
right now im 1/2 and each time i open a faucet while someone take a shower, they hurl because the water get cold or hot suddently. so, im currently reworking my system to have isolated lines to prevent such issues while providing stable pressure.
regards
Hello Patrick;
The benefits of a manifold is to have a more even supply of water to each faucet should more then one be in use at a time. It also cuts down by 1/2 on the amount of water being used in relationship to the a 3/4 inch line. So every time you are running the hot water; you only need to fill a 1/2" line rather then 3/4" line and this will save money over a period of time.
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
TheOldkid888 Ever thought of the fact that once the hot water has made it to the shower it is only a little more water to go to the bathroom sink? Then you have hot water right there without having to come all the way from the tank and heat another section of pipe.
***** "if I have a leak". GIve me a break. Millions of homes have been built with zero defect plumbing. Never plan on having a bad contractor. If you dont know how to install plumbing, then dont do it at all. Simple answer that will save you thousands of dollars in intallation and time.
Now for the physics...it does not add up to an advantage. Lets reduce the amount of water loss by line...but install 9 lines instead of ONE? REmember most HW lines are run to the most used devices first, then the least used. That is just how a house is generally set up.
The truth and what really works.
Forget manifolds..put in solar water heat, circulate the hot water (solar watr pump) to keep pipes hot as well (circulates very very slowly). This will actually save the homeowner an average of 25% on his electic bill and have ZERO waste water waiting for hot at the device! Average cost is around 5K to handle a family of 4-5 in FL and most of CA etc. A little higher cost in the north but works even in the far north.
Hello Dirk;
Not sure if you are familiar with wells or not, but this neck of the woods has thousands of them.
A drop in water pressure is an every day occurrence when it comes to running water in these homes.
You are not going to see much of a drop on municipal water service, but pumps are completely different.
I agree on the solar heated water, but I am not familiar with a system where the water boils and cold water is added to make it tempered?
Is this a new system as most I deal with simply have a storage tank that stores it as it is heated.
Solar is good, but you must have a lot of sunlight for it to work properly. The lower states have just that. As you head north; they do become more costly.Much much more then 5k depending on the region.
Demand water heaters have had many problems in different areas depending on the water quality; whether it is acidic or has a great amount of mineral deposits in it.
They tried to implement them in a number of places that I know of and had nothing, but issues. I have seen them in other regions where there are no issues at all and work very well.
When you talk about plumbing you have to think past perfect water conditions because they are not very common, but you probably know that!
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Thanks Al, very good info and your video is great! I'mgoing to get me a mmanifold!
Hello Rodger;
You are more then welcome!
Thanks for the kind words!
Big thing is to insulate the pipe coming off the manifold as well!
A little insulation will save you some good money over the years and easily pay for itself!
Thanks for commenting and best of luck with the project! Al
Actually I started my project with a Tankless eltron 24 Stiebel and bought 1/2 inch Pex however I'm redoing my thinking and going 3/8 off the 3/4 inch line. What ya think? It's not that far to each appliance, say 20 feet at the furthest. I was looking at that plastic manifold with 8 cold and 6 hot outputs. Would like to talk with ya more... Possible? I'm up in Northern Ontario Canada.
Hello Rodger;
I don't have a lot of experience in the tankless heaters in this area. Water troubles put the stop to them becoming popular. Ended up having flow switch trouble, but I have seen them in many parts of the world. When they work; they work very well.
I checked out the Steibel unit. Looks good. Control on front. Nice and simple.
If you are running pex to each fixture; 1/2" is the way to go. Take it off the 3/4 and you will be all set.
Not sure if you saw my pex installation series I made. It maybe what you are looking for. I made a 4 part series and tried to cover as much as possible when installing pex. A few tips along the way.
Thanks for commenting and let me know if you have any questions! Al
Roger Diotte Are you getting your water from a well? If so, then install a sediment tank before your pressure tank and then filter and soften the water before it gets to your tankless heater. In my mind, using 3/8" PEX over 1/2" will make no real difference in the long run, save for a little more wastage. High quality PEX is good for 130 PSI so if you're worried about volume, then just increase the pressure on your pressure switch.
Yes from a well however I've heard installing the sediment filter after the pressure tank and before the softener was the correct way? I've had this question and was told that the pressure tank may whine for more volume if /when the filter plugs up thus the tank will continously run the pump?
But yes I bought a rainfresh sediment filter to install.
I think I want to try exactly what you're talking about. Did You build the manifold yourself? How did you do it? Also thinking I can go 3/8 pex to each endpoint based on flow rates I've calculated. Thoughts?
Hello Curt;
I actually bought this manifold. You can make one and it maybe cheaper to do so. I have made a series of videos on installing pex and in Part 4; I do just that for the hot water manifold.
This is the name of the video if you are interested...
How to install Pex Pipe Waterlines in Your Home! Part 4. Plumbing Tips....
Best of luck with any future projects!
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
Sir, I have pushed PEX in all areas where galvanized was and am getting ready to crimp the junctions etc. I have aquestion. I saw these 'stubout' copper pipes at home depot and i wonder where should install them . There were two two-foot long dead end galvanized pipes in the attic near the heater area which are not connected now...Do I really need these and does the city require them ?
Hello Sajid,
Sounds like it's going well.
You don't need the stub outs for the walls. I believe these are the ones you are talking about. I generally use the wall bracket that makes the pex turn 90 degrees and holds it securely if I am coming out of the wall.
If you are coming up through the floor; you will just be adding a valve and then use the3/8th supply to either the faucet or toilet.
The pipe that are in the attic are for water hammer. When first installed they contain air and if a faucet is closed quickly; they prevent pipes from banging, but over a short period of time they become waterlogged and serve no purpose.
No need of installing them.
Thanks for commenting and let me know how you are getting along! Al
Good luck!
Great ! So , why do they sell these valve boxes for washing machines with pipe sticking out from both hot and cold valve ? Are they useless ? Will my PEX lines bang if i dont install stubouts ? Thanks for your time.
Hello Sajid,
They probably look better then the drain pipe running up the outside of the wall as they are recessed in it. I prefer the old way myself, but that's just me.
You won't have any issues with banging with pex. The pipes that were stubbed up in the attic are the ones that prevent water hammer. They are generally put in behind the bathtub faucets.
The ones sticking out the wall have nothing to do with any pipes banging.
Keeping the pipes clamped where possible will help.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
No recirc pump is required here. Each fixture is fed with its own line off the header.
Feeding each fixture with a 1/2" line rather then running a 3/4 hot water cuts down on the amount of hot water used by 50%.
I have installed only a few recirc pumps in a few houses and the were considerably long runs from the tank to the fixture.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
G'day mate, I'm recycling a couple of hot water solar panels for my off grid cabin and I wondered if you could give me some advice on the simplest method to join the two panel together. I was going with pex pipe and not having any plumbing experience wonder how to get the pipe to fit easily between the two fixed panels.
Hello Mirriulah Water Dog,
Pex will break down with the sun beating down over it. Depending on the name brand; it could last as long as a month for you.
This being said; you can use pex if you are planning on covering it with some cheap foam insulation.
You don't know off hand what size the pipe is on the panels you are planning on joining. I would consider poly pipe myself.
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance....Al
Thanks mate... I'm getting the impression that pex might not be the way to go so the fittings are 1" and I will probably use copper now to join the 2 panels together.
I bought a house with one of these already present and it worked beautifully, until we had to replace the water heater ,,, then it started to leak. Unsure why , but my plumber said that one of the entry ports " cracked " and he wants to replace the entire unit. Does this sound right ?
Hello Craig,
It could happen.
Not very common, but it could be a poor soldering job during the manufacturing and showed up at this time.
Pain in the backside, but you will have to get it done!
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
great video! question regarding the line sizing...are you coming out of the hot side of the water heater to the manifold in 3/4" then everything running to each fixture is just 1/2"?
Hello chuckAWD,
Yes. That is correct. Feeding the manifold with 3/4 and the lines off the manifold are 1/2".
Running a 3/4 hot line down the length of the house uses twice the amount of water as compared to half inch.
Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
+TheOldkid888 thanks a bunch for the reply! I'm repipiping my whole house (860ft^2) with shower/tub, bathroom sink, toilet, kitchen sink, dishwasher, and 2 outside hose bibs.
Is it standard practice to run 3/4" lines for all of the cold and then just the 1/2" lines for all of the hot? I worry only about not getting enough volume with 1/2" lines.
chuckAWD
I generally run a 3/4 cold line through the house taking branches of as a need them using a 3/4 by 3/4 by 1/2 tees and use a 3/4 by 1/2 by 1/2 tee at the end of my run feeding my last two fixtures.
I bring the 3/4 manifold off the water heater and run all 1/2 inch lines to the fixture. You will have no worries as far as volume goes.
Since you only have the one bathroom you can get away with taking a 3/4 line off the tank and running it up to the joists and branching off with a 1/2 line to the kitchen and another to the bathroom. One 1/2 inch line feeding the bathroom should do as there is generally one person in the bathroom at a time.
Do you have a gas,oil or electric water heater? Are you changing any faucets?
Do you have a well or are you on municipal water?
Thanks for commenting and get back to me when you get a chance...Al
+TheOldkid888 Excellent! Thanks again.
I am having a new well drilled at my house. The driller sizes the pump to the tank and leaves me with everything installed up to a 3/4" quarter turn ball valve right after the pressure tank and I take it from there.
I was originally going to build a manifold system right off the pressure tank with individual lines for each fixture but if that's extreme over kill, I will do as you say and run basically 2 main 3/4" branches. 1 hot and 1 cold towards the kitchen and bathroom then branch off to fixtures from there with 1/2" so long as it won't effect the volume of water flow which is the only thing I'm not sure how to calculate or compute.
My goal is to have excellent water pressure throughout the house with excellent volume as well. I very much look forward to your response. Thank you very much for your advice!!
+TheOldkid888 Also I will have an electric water heater. currently the house is on a boiler system which wasn't winterized properly and every piece of copper in the house blew out over the winter which is why I'm repiping everything.
An interesting video! Did you ever do the video of the manifold install and if so can you include the link?
Hello Ron,
I can't say that I have on that one.
I have made a video where I made a manifold in my series on Part 4. I believe you saw that.
Manifolds are very common now. In my area many people have wells and the pressure will fluctuate 20 pounds before the pump cuts in and a manifold system helps maintain a constant flow of water if another fixture is turned on.
I always ran 3/4 cold and hot lines in homes, but in order to get hot water to a faucet thirty feet away you would have to fill the entire section of 3/4 pipe with hot water. A run of half inch pipe would be half the amount as compared to 3/4. Over time you would save a considerable amount of money.
Hope this helps!
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
will 3/4 inch copper pipe from water pump to fawcets give more pressure than using 3/4 inch part of the way and then using 1/2 inch?...does a bigger diameter pipe give more pressure at the fawcets? thanks in advance for your answer...
Hello pei bossman;
A 3/4" pipe just gives more volume.
3/4' is roughly twice the volume of 1/2" I usually run 3/4 cold and supply all the fixtures in the house with that. Then I will run a manifold off the hot water tank to give equal volume to every fixture. Sometimes I will run 1... 1/2" hot water line to a bathroom and split a line supplying the tub and basin.
Another reason manifolds are becoming so popular is they supply a constant pressure to all the fixtures.
I think everyone can remember being in a shower and getting a blast of hot or cold when another fixture was turned on.
Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
thank you...
You are more then welcome!
Enjoy the summer! Al
Hello. Great video. I see you mentioned that the installer should have used a 3/4 in. cold water feed to the heater, for adequate water volume going out to the 3/4 in. hot water. I understand your point. Now, in regards to using the 1 in. manifold that has 1/2 in. branches, should the cold water feed still be 3/4 in. or should it be raised to a 1 in. cold water feed? Thanks, Marc.
I'm planning on installing an manifold when I re-pipe with Pex, but my instant water heater only has 1/2 inch fittings. Should I run 3/4 from the softener to the water heater and reduce it down and then the same back to the manifold? or should I run 1/2 inch all of the way?
Hello Steve,
I would run 3/4 to it and 1/2 from the outlet.
Increasing the size of the pipe on the outlet will not give you any more volume as the water has to leave through the 1/2" outlet.
Are you on municipal water? Generally the pressure is very good. How many showers in the house?
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
Thanks for the reply and info. The house has a new 4 inch well with a 1 inch supply and the pressure is around 60 psi. I have 1 shower 2 sinks and a washing machine. I'm hoping with the supply I have and proper plumbing, I can eliminate pressure drop that sometimes occurs.
Hello Steve,
You will have some pressure drop being on a well that cannot be eliminated if you have a number of fixtures open at one time. I have been on wells my entire life.
I generally run a 3/4 cold line and take all my branches off to every fixture as I pipe it. I run a header from the water heater and take 1/2 " lines off that.
One thing that I always suggest when repiping any home is a pressure balancing posi-temp shower faucet
by Moen. Excellent product. The biggest feature of this faucet is if there is a drop in pressure either on the hot or cold; the temperature doesn't change. I always use Moen myself.
I have made a 4 part series of installing pex and I also have a video on installing the posi-temp Moen.
May help with your project.
I have seen manifolds from both the cold and hot source with separate lines run from each branch off the manifold. No fittings are required in between the source and the fixture. The pipe is clamped and connected to the manifold and run directly to the faucet or toilet.
Thanks for commenting and feel free to ask as questions! Al
Thanks for all of your help, Its good to know that pressure drop is unavoidable at times, that will prevent some frustration on my part. The way my house is designed I wont have any run of pex longer than 10 ft, in this situation is there any advantage to one or the other of the methods you describe? My original intent was to use a manifold and have shut off valves for each branch on the hot and cold, but that may be overkill, also since I'm only going to have 1/2 inch pipe from the water heater I'm wondering if the manifold for the hot side may have possibly have a negative affect?
I'll definitely use the moen fixture when I remodel the bathroom, I think Ive confirmed that no one in the family has any heart conditions after being shocked with freezing water so many times. Ive got your videos in the watch list, I'm looking forward to watching them.
Thanks again.
did you post a follow up to this< I can not seem to find it. Thanks
Honestly these have never made sense to me. If you have a bathroom with a soaker tub, shower, and a double lav. that's 4 hot lines. I don't get where it makes sense to run 4 lines to one bathroom. Now you have to wait for each fixture to get hot. Traditionally once you got one fixture hot all the others would already be hot. If your bathroom is 80' from the heater you will waste so much water waiting for each fixture to get hot. If you want to save water install water saver aerators.
Hello Crystal;
You run twice the hot water if you run a 3/4" line as compared to 1/2". It also helps to keep a steady pressure to each fixture. Many people are more interested in this then anything, especially if you have a few fixtures going at the same time.
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
TheOldkid888 No you don't. If your pipe is two inch or half an inch you are only using the volume of water that the fixture you are running.
Hello Michael;
If you run a 2 inch line and are using hot water, you have to fill that 2 inch pipe before the water gets to the branch. Once that line is filled then it is the amount of water that the fixture uses.
Using a 3/4 line means you fill that line which is twice the volume of 1/2" before you take the 1/2" branch off.
That is what I mean by the previous statement....
Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
Crystal McIntyre listen to the guy. 2:22 explains. 😲
2"' seriously? Never seen a house with 2"
Hello NassguI;I am in big time favor with the manifold idea!You have to keep in mind even though you are going with a feed for each fixture that the chances of pulling it through the floor from above to each fixture are next to impossible.I know you will be able to pull the pipe up to that floor,keep in mind that there are several bends once the pipe gets up there and you will need a hatch in the ceiling or have to cut a section of the floor out to get the pipe to the fixture.Get back to me..Al
How do you figure that you use more water with a 3/4 line than with a 1/2 inch line? My washing machine and dishwasher (and sink for that matter) all take a specific amount of water to run. the 1/2 line is just going to take longer to fill the appliance. Then there is the issue of pressure, if you have the 3/4 line trying to force more water through your shower head would you not get 'better' water pressure? Finally, if you have a large soaking tub, the water could be cold by the time the 1/2 inch line fills it.
Hello Douglas,
A half inch line isn't going to take any longer than a 3/4 line. Your fixtures will only allow so much water to flow through them. If your pressure is constant which in most cases it is; having a 3/4 line will not allow any more water to come out of your shower. You could have a 2 inch line there and you are only going to get so much water. Inside most faucets the ports are only about a 1/4 of an inch in size and are only going to allow so much water to flow through them. Only if the pressure is increased will you get more water.
If you have a large soaker tub you can easily supply it with a 1/2 inch line and have no issues. I have done it many times using manifolds and you have no worries of the water being cold by the time it arrives. Pressure is what dictates how fast the water will flow out of a faucet. Low pressure...low flow. That being said; if you have a number of fixtures using water at the same time; you will get a pressure drop. I generally run 3/4 cold line throughout the home.
Let's say you have fifty feet of 3/4 pipe; both hot and cold. So you turn on the hot water tap in the bathroom and wait for the water to arrive. The water that was in the pipe has cooled down and all the water in the 3/4 pipe has to be purged out of the faucet top allow the hot water to get to the faucet. So now you have filled the 3/4 pipe again with hot water. Give it about twenty minutes and it has cooled down again. So the cycle of filling the 3/4 pipe goes on for years.
The water has cooled and been purged and the pipe has been refilled with hot water. Hundreds of times by now.
A 1/2 inch pipe contains half the volume of 3/4. So if a half inch pipe had been run; you would have used half the hot water to supply hot water to the faucet for all those years and saved a considerable amount of money.
Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
I think the cross sectional area of the 3/4 vs 1/2 line is obviously more, this means there is more volume in the 3/4 line. This volume gets cold. When you turn on the shower, you have to purge all that cold water before hot water starts to flow. Whereas if you ran a 1/2 line to the shower, you would only have to purge half as much water (and heat 1/2 as much water) before you would get a nice hot shower. Plus, when you shut the shower off, you would only allow 1/2 as much water to cool down. I think that was the point of this.
Hello NassguI;
Are you planning on running all new pex pipe and fittings and removing the qest pipe?
When you are saying pulling it through; is there an area that you cannot see? You can feed pex pipe just like a fish tape if you are installing it through a ceiling that is covered with gyproc. there is a little trick to it and that is to shave the end of the pipe to a point on one side.
Thanks for commenting and get back to me on the questions I have left for you when you get a chance! Al
What was the brand of the trunk-line ftg that fed both hot and cold
Piping a hot water manifold could be great, but it depends on the layout of the house. Some houses it makes more sense to do two 3/4" pipes down the length of the house and tee off for each bathroom or fixture.
In reality the plumbing, or at least the hot side should be well insulated anyway.
I like the manifold when you can't access the tees such as a slab or a finished basement. Then you can valve off each appliance/bathroom at the manifold.
Hello skoronesa,
I installed the waterlines in that manner for about 25 years until I started using pex. I always ran two 3/4 lines..hot and cold and branched off along the way. I still run a 3/4 cold in all homes, but I have changed with the manifold on the hot.
The only reason is 1/2" pipe is half the volume as compared to 3/4. Over time you will save a considerable amount of money. Instead of filling the 3/4 pipe each time to get the water to the branch; you only fill the 1/2 and the hot water gets there faster.
Totally agree on the insulation. Makes a huge difference. Especially on loing runs.
Thanks for commenting and have a good one! Al
I think the benefit of insulation can not be overstated. If you insulate well enough it really doesn't matter how you pipe the system. Unless you want to add in a recirc line on most or all of the hots, in which case you'd be better off not doing a manifold. I wouldn't suggest either is always better, the only surefire cure is good insulation.
Is there such a manifold 1" size made from brass with 8 ports? Thank you
Hello NassguI;
Pulling pipe to the top floor should not a big problem as long as the holes going through the first floor are big enough for a fitting to go through. I have done this several times with copper and and pex and it is quite easy to do. You must be planning on cutting a hole or a hatch in the floor to install tees and 90's once the pipe is up there to make your attachments are you or are you planning on taking the floor up?
Thanks for commenting and get back to me! Al
You're not using more water with the larger pipe, unless you were referring to flow restriction. I assume you meant heat dissipation which isn't a volume issue but a surface area issue. You said you are going to insulate the pipe so downsizing it will do little to affect the heat loss.
Hello skoronesa,
That's correct. Definitely not using more water as you can only get so much out of a fixture at a time.
I use to run both 3/4 hot and cold lines in every house and take 1/2" branches off throughout the house. I still run my 3/4 cold and install a manifold on the hot with 1/2" lines coming from it.
What I was trying to get at in this video was pipe size and volume.
As we know; 3/4 pipe has a volume twice that of 1/2".
Every time a faucet is opened; in order to get hot water through a 3/4 line from the top of the tank; the pipe has to be replenished with hot water before it gets hot at the faucet. If you have a long run say 40 feet of 3/4 as a hot line, that is a lot of hot water over a year. That is why I am a big fan of the header. 1/2" lines using half the hot water as compared to 3/4 feeding a faucet.
Pressure balance in the house is another reason.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
It seems to me that the additional piping that this installation would require, and the difference between the amount of water in a 1/2 inch pipe to be heated as opposed to a 3/4 inch pipe would make the pay back unreasonable. I used to use the mana block system that owens corning had back in the early nineties. I really didn't see that it was really that good of a system. If the piping system is properly sized, there should be no problem with water volume.
Hello contact58;
Using a manifold system easily pays for itself over time. Insulation on the piping will also help. Over the number of years that it will be in use; it will pay for itself several times over.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
Hello hunter;
I am glad you liked the video!
Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
great video
Hello la pooc,
Thanks!
Hopefully it helps with any future projects!
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
The 1/2" brass nipple is hardly a restriction compared to the lengths of 3/4" pex and fittings. It would seem to me that they only had one 3/4" valve so they used a 1/2" they had.
Hello skoronesa,
I would say they only had one valve as well. They should have skipped it all together.
They should have only installed one on the cold as it is against code to have one on the out going hot.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
The proper term is "water heater". That is the only term. All code councils will support this. No such thing as hot water heaters or hot water tanks. I do enjoy your videos old kid by the way. Regards, tom. Licensed master plumber and plumbing contractor.
Hello J Thomas Rains Jr;
Thanks for the clarification Tom! Appreciated!
I am glad you do!
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
If copper had bacteria killing properties, the process piping in food and beverage plants would be copper. But, as we all know, it is not copper but stainless steel.and the fittings are not sweat, threaded, or compression due to their unsanitary nature. So, if Mr. J Thomas Rains Jr. is serious about quality, skill level being involved, and inhibition of bacteria he should really be advocating that home water supplies be constructed of stainless steel tubing joined by sanitary welds...
Hello 070basemetal;
I guess it comes down to everyones own opinion. I for one have no problem using pex.
I had someone leave a comment about copper killing bacteria. The farthest thing from the truth.
As long as municipal water is being treated with the proper level of chlorine; bacteria isn't an issue. It is only when the chlorine level is not at the proper level that problems can occur. Wells are a different story. UV protection can take care of any problems that may arise with bad bacteria, but are not used frequently. Only testing of well water is the way to be certain harmful bacteria exists.
I couldn't imagine stainless piping with welded joints in homes for domestic water lines. LOL...I guess that would be considered a high skill level for sure.
Thanks for commenting and have a great New Year! Al
+070basemetal
copper does in fact have bacterial killing properties. look it up before you expose just how dumb you are.
Hello Joby Stachowiak;
You are more then welcome!
I am glad you liked it!
Thanks for commenting and good luck on any future projects you may have! Al
I have been in the trade for nearly 30 yrs now and so, have watched as new piping and new ideas have been introduced. When I first ran PEX piping I was told by my employer to "home run" all the water lines from each fixture. My immediate thoughts were, why would anyone want to do this? Hundreds of feet of pipe, much more labor and this does not improve on the efficiency of the hot water system at all. It is a waste of time and money. You want to have efficient volume and get hot water to the fixtures as fast as possible? Here is what should be done. Run 3/4 hot and cold to each bathroom, run a third 1/2 inch line to each bathroom to recirculate the hot water. Tie all these 1/2 inch recirc lines together back at the hot water tank in to the 3/4 inch cold water supply to the tank and install a recirc pump there. If there is concern about heat loss from the recirc lines as they loop throughout the house then insulate them. This "home running the water lines was a ridiculous idea from the beginning and as predicted by guys like me, is not being used so much anymore.
Hello Steven,
The recirc line is definitely the way to go with a bronze pump, but it is a little costly and most homeowners don't want to pay the extra price. I have installed a few for those who wanted it, but it does cost a little more. A little patience in waiting for the hot water to arrive is much cheaper. That is the reason for the 1/2 inch supply coming off the manifold rather the 3/4 as it is half the volume. I always ran 3/4 cold and hot, but have switched to the manifold with 1/2 inch branches.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your weekend! Al
Steven L Emerson I have a question. I want a simple method for ensuring hot water thru the entire house
Steven L Emerson how can I ensure hot water throughout the house with the most simple economical solution?
bloody hell very interesting.
Well water. copper in the past infected blue minerals on copper line. An earlier repair found acid just a bit high. Plumber recommended remove copper home is all Pex he installed 1 inch water feed to 3/4 custom made manifold brass and pvc cold side.He left the hot side manifold because it had plenty of time before it would need replacing r We just had a hot water heater installed but the installer made a manifold from brass and pvc but 1/2 to 8 lines of 1/2 pex. water is greatly much reduced.
@onceadrm hello there.I have seen heat traps come on some hot water heaters themselves. No plumbing suppliers sell them here and I called all 4.The point I was making in this video is the way that plumbing has been done in the past and how it is changing. One point in particular was running 1/2" pipe to each fixture instead of a 3/4 hot water line and branching off to the fixture.1/2" pipe has half the volume as 3/4".Insulating the pipes makes a major difference as well.Thanks for commenting. Al
@MrPquedenfeld i agree with you. but if the water heater has a code pov it should be fine
@sonnysand Hello sonny; The thumbs up may just be a small glitch and they will correct it in no time. I haven't done a video on changing an anode yet, but when I have to replace one I will for you. A socket and power handle work best to remove them as they can feel like they are welded in place at times.. Thanks for commenting and have a great day!!! Al
Use a Manablock and give them all the advantages if you're doing the whole house.
Hello BorisandChromeLuxx,
The Manabloc is pretty popular today. I have been running into problems with the shut offs on them. Very difficult to close. Have you had any issues yourself?
Not only those valves, but many pex ball valves as well. And not just one manufacturer. I know watwer is an issue and perhaps that is what the problem is in this area.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy oyur weekend! Al
This is not the best idea, because if you do not use a branch, then the bacteria can multiply in it.
Rather, you should build a hot water circulation pipe system.
Tom
Europe
Hungary
Hey u OldKid88 Thank you for returning to me on my question and I thank you on your genuine care to be a real help. I hope some day to meet you in this life. Well with all that said I don't know if you ever herd this but you sound allot like Nicolas Cage the actor, LOL. I wonder if anyone can concur? Thank you John
Hello North Perth Plumbers;
You are more then welcome!
Can be big savings depending on the length of the run. Much cheaper to run hot water through a 1/2" line rather then a 3/4" line. I ran cold and hot 3/4 mains for a long time and have now use a manifold off the hot water tank for this reason. Half the volume.
Thanks for commenting and have a great day! Al
Why not add a heat trap coming out of the water heater which will prevent the hot water from creeping out? I have been doing this for years and it works excellent. If you want instant hot water run a 1/2" return line from the farthest and highest fixture back to the cold feed on the water heater with a check valve of course. I have installed this in lots of houses over the years keep in mind since it is running on gravity it will take a while to get going the first time.
@ianmacdon Hello Ian; Thanks very much for the comments and have a great day!!! Al
And you still don't have dielectric unions so the warranty will be invalid.
Hello skoronesa,
I wouldn't be changing the tank if the nipple was bad on it. It would be much easier to change the nipple or dip tube.
That would make more sense to me. Why would you want to charge the homeowner for a tank replacement when it would be much cheaper to replace either smaller item.
Thanks for commenting and have yourself a great weekend! Al
I am saying that most if not all warranties require dielectric unions. I hope you were not the original installer.
skoronesa1 day agoI am not all negative comments btw, I like that you are putting in a header. Would have been nice to see finished pics showing proper valves and unions though ;)
@tpdeehan hello;
The reason that manifolds are used is to give even pressure throughout the home for one reason. Running a number of 1/2 inch lines in pex off of this manifold will save you money if it is hot water. If you run a 3/4 hot line in your home; you have doubled the amount of hot water and if it goes 30 feet each time you run the faucet; you have wasted a lot of hot water over a year. By running 1/2" pex off the manifold to every fixture; you save money.
Enjoy 2012!!! Al
A small length of 1/2" choking it doesn't work the same as an entire run of 1/2" as pipe friction losses are measured per length
Hello Dodd,
Definitely. The longer the run; the bigger the drop.
I always ran hot 3/4 mains years ago. Once the headers came into play I would say that many plumbers went that route.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
To your point why not then use 3/8 pex off of a 3/4 manifold?
Hello Jack,
We don't have 3/8th in our region and never have.
You would want to run 1/2" pipe for a long run as the pressure would drop considerably. That being said 3/8th would drop the volume that much more.
Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
thanks for the video, sorry the water saving part did not make sense, i went back and watched twice, but it did not make sense. I will need to do more research
+Rashid Khan the water in the pipe is ambient room temperature, when hot water is needed, the cool water flows a while until the pipes are filled with hot water. on a given distance, the 1/2 in line holds half the water of 3/4, resulting in the hot water getting to the faucet in half the time, and half the amount of cold incoming water refills the water heater, just to get the line hot.
Im not so sure your therory about only using half is correct.... So by your logic if the supply line, lets say is an 8inch farm irrigation pvc pipe... To calc this out will be tough. Every 1/4 inch pipe size increase doubles the amout of water exited/ used.
There are +30 1/4 inch increases from 1/2 to 8 inch... So to double every one 30x.. Im almost positive niagra falls wont produce enough water to supply that pipe...maybe your correct about a very very smal percentage increase in waste. But water supply is always a constant 50-80 psi weather city supplied or from a pressure tank... I think its same usage throughout oversizing...
Im an up an comer in specifics trades and i enjoy a good descussion... Also enjoy learning new ideas and ways........No hard feelings intended watsoever
Hello Jack,
No worries there....
Like one myself.
Volume in piping works like this...For every pipe you DOUBLE in size; the volume increases 4 times. Of all the things that I remember in trade school 38 years ago volume was one and I still enjoy math.
A 1/2 inch piece of pipe 1 long holds .008 of a gallon. A 1" piece of pipe 1 foot long holds .033 of a gallon.
A 2" piece of pipe 1 foot long holds .135 of a gallon.
So 3/4 holds roughly .016 of a gallon.
That 8 inch piece a foot long holds 2.171 gallons.
So by running 3/4 let's say 40 feet in a home; then branching off to feed 2 sinks you have used twice as much hot water as compared to 1/2" I use to run 3/4 hot and cold mains and take branches off like I mentioned before. Running a 1/2" line will save you money over time. Every time you want hot water at that sink you have to fill the entire 3/4 line first.
By the way...all water pressure in homes is not 50 to 80 pounds.
Many pumps switches are as low as 20/40. I have seen hundreds of them over the years. These switches come in 20/40, 30/50 and 40/60.
City pressures are different in every city as well. 50/80 would be great, but that is not the case. Some cities perhaps, but I have seen pressures as low as 22 pounds in one city.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy the weekend! Al
Jack F If the lines to a group of fixtures require more than 25 feet, the set of fixtures should be fed with a 3/4 inch line to a header that has a 1/2 inch return line that will allow a circulating pump to keep the water in the 3/4 inch line hot. Both these lines need to be insulated to minimize the heat loss! This will provide instant hot water in bathrooms and kitchens! This will save water, heat, and even the users hands by preventing them from developing arthritis from washing their hands in cold water all the time!
I just want to say, I believe it will save you money on the use of your hot water heater, but that will be offset by the volume of water you use in your home. In the manifold system, every fixture will draw an independent flow of water from the water heater to the faucet or outlet. If you are in one bathroom and that bathroom is at the other end of the house or the second floor, when you shave you wait for the hot water to get to the faucet. Then when you jump in the shower you wait exactly the same amount of time for the hot water to get to the shower. All the cold water runs right down the drain, unused. It is more efficient to run a single pipe to the bathroom, because the odds are in the morning you are going to use both the lav and the shower. The absolute best is to have a on demand water heater for each bathroom.
Ray VinZant Plumbing Engineer and Master.
I think the benefit of insulation can not be overstated. If you insulate well enough it really doesn't matter how you pipe the system. Unless you want to add in a recirc line on most or all of the hots, in which case you'd be better off not doing a manifold. I wouldn't suggest either is always better, the only surefire cure is good insulation.
OldKid : (1940 House) My Main in Basement(has a Ground Wire soldered to it) outta the Wall is 1", at the Shut-Off Valve(12" from Wall) is 3/4". Do you recommend when I PEXed the heck outta the Basement, I run 3/4" as far as I can, THEN Branch with 1/2" to ALL fixtures ? I have 20 tons of Galv. and 30 lbs. of Copper, with the Icing on the Cake of FUGLY Cast Iron to Terlet, Suwer, and Vanity. I outta send the previous owners all the scrap, C.O.D. !!
Lastly. NO ONE can answer this one(I have PIC). where my Cold comes down from Tub,it has a Weird looking "Thermostat-looking -Thing" in a Case connected to it, which connects in my FuseBox. Funky Ground? HUH ??? On the Cold, what the heck ???
Can't afford "Manifold"(let alone do a Complete Galv/Copper Swap-out to Home Side @ the Corporate Stop), but can afford that $359 Starter Kit tho. "DIYcauseIcant".
Hello missmyredwolf;
LOL!!!
You are still going to need that ground wire connected somewhere as it grounds your panel more then likely.
You can run the lines a few ways. You can run a 3/4 line like you say from your cold and one from your hot water tank and branch off at every faucet or set up a header at the hot water tank and one at the cold supply main and run separate 1/2 inch lines to each fixture. The second option gives you a more constant volume. I have been running a 3/4 cold main and taking off tees to each fixture and then a header off my hot tank and run separate lines from there to each faucet.
Take that scrap material to the junk dealer...he will probably give you a few dollars for it. ;)
Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
TheOldkid888 NO !!!, Thank you for REcommenting "Oldwhoukidding888". I appreciate your comment. Now that I got your UNdivided attention from counting all your money, please answer these questions, as the expert that you are. Then I'll leave you alone(maybe) j/k.
1) A Website(won't spam) have Copper(Closed End) in 3/4/6/8/10 1/2" PEX Outlets for GREAT low prices(as well as the BIG Manifolds). SO, your saying get one HOT for H/W Tank(in the Vicinity of, over 18") then do my Branches to fixtures. Then 1 for Cold(Main) and do their Branches ? Forgot, Property is only 6,600 sq/f total, with dwelling only 864 sq/f 1-1/2 Bed,Ranch.
2) Is this what you experts call "Home-Run", that I am proposing, or is this just a "Double-Play" beings that my place is small compared to the huge houses ? Hopefully, with LESS connectors,tees, etc, the flow will increase. I think our pressure in town is like between 44-55psi. If I gauged it at my outside spigot, it'll give me a "go by" of what totally JUST my house is or City ??
3) I read your comment to Patrick and it HELPED greatly. Pressure at select fixtures is not impressive(but not bad), but like everyone, flush and the "shower person" screams. Have new Delta HF to install in shower so, Oldkid,, from the Cold Main should I connect small 3/4" mini-fold as close to wall or lengthen the whole distance of basement with 3/4", then connect 1/2" fixtures for HIGHer pressure throughout ?? THEN, at W/H another, or lengthen that farther out?
4) plasticpipe.org/pdf/pex_designguide_residential_water_supply.pdf is what REALLY helped me Pg. 36/38. If this is SPAM Oldkid, please delete it with my apologizes. Just wanted to help others like me, just getting started. Been 15yr OTR Driver, and a 12yr. Navy Vet, BUT NEVER done 100% Plumb. If the "masters" out there asked me about the latter 2 professions I had....they'd look dumb. I have been "self-teaching" myself in the last 14 days, and the stuff I've learned is wow to me, no on time experience though, but I feel alot is coming(look forward to it). THX OldKid, appreciate the respect.
5) Lastly. To do my 1" Main from wall to 3/4" threaded to PEX, I have to get (sources recommend MALE not FEMALE) threaded end 3/4" NPT MALE x 3/4" PEX. They say the NPT MALE could be worn and I have to obtain a "dialectric" fixture or something due to disimilar metal to different material. Is this true?
Hello missmyredwolf;
You can buy a manifold for the cold and the hot water. You do not need to run 2 separate 1/2 inch lines to the bathroom if you don't want to. You can get away with just one line and tee off to the basin and tub if you wish as the chances of both fixtures being run at the same time are low; so you won't have any concern of a drop in volume. Many people do run an individual line for every fixture.
A constant 40 pounds of pressure is very good. Many wells are as low as 20 pounds, but if the piping is balanced you still have constant volume. One thing that has made a major difference when it comes to pressure problems in bathrooms...(You get a blast of hot or cold water while in the shower when another faucet is used)...is posi temp faucets. They balance the faucet and keep a steady temperature while in the shower.
I use a 3/4 cold and take branches off in most homes and run a separate manifold for the hot., but have also installed manifolds for hot and cold that works exactly the same in my books.
I know from what you are telling me that you can handle the job.
If you are going from copper to brass; you really don't need a dialectric union although many people use them, but I have joined brass to copper for many years and have had no issues. If you are going from galvanized to copper; you should purchase one.
I have made a 4 part series for repiping a home with pex pipe.
...How to Install Pex Pipe Waterlines in Your Home . Step 1 Plumbing Tips...
It shows the fittings used and how I install the lines...
Thanks for commenting and have a great weekend! Al
Am I missing something here? How is the pipe size going to save you money? You pay for consumption so how the water gets there doesn't effect your consumption. As far as hot water goes, you have to empty the pipe of cold water before you get hot water. So the larger the pipe the more cold water it will hold so the more water you will waist while flushing that pipe clear of cold water. So you will actually increase the consumption on the hot water side if you increase the pipe size and that will cost you more.
Hello shayne,
You will increase the consumption if the pipe size is larger...Correct!
Running a 1/2 inch pipe rather than a 3/4 inch pipe will save you money as a 3/4" pipe has twice the volume as a 1/2" pipe. If you have to empty this 3/4 hot pipe that is run 40 feet away on a daily basis a number of times; you need to heat that extra water that it takes to fill the 3/4 every time. I am a fan of these headers for this reason and besides they help to give equal flow to the faucets when more than one is running.
Your last statement was correct. Increase your pipe size and increase your cost.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your day! Al
"Hot Water Heater" Why would you want to heat Hot Water
+David Bagley
its called a water heater period. there are different types and uses but your exactly correct, if it was hot why would you heat it
I do like your ideas and your work looks professinal.... However i beleive your system there is a bit wastefull and requires alot more work and materials.... I plumb new school i guess... Your princeable seems like each fixture needing hot water is alone and nowhere near other fixtures requiring hot water.. Like a. rogue comet flying independant in our galaxy..... However why not have just a 3 tap manifold using 3/4 fittings and just running one 3/4 pipe to commonly a bathroom then 1/2 taps into that.... Basically why have all those long 1/2 runs streching miles to go to each fixture, when one or two 3/4 inch runs will get all the hot water u need there,,, waaaay lesss material Way less holes to drill or work involved. Water stays hotter longer when massed together... Your way isnt effficent to send all these lil mcdonalds straws spiderwebed thruout the house. Those little lines cool much more rapidly the way u install them.. Even tho u say ur gonna put alll this money in time and insulation to wrap them or install mini waer heaters to reheat them along there travel...... Here it is... Is it more effeciant to have 9 employees all drive there own mustangs from there town they all live in to the jobsite across state? Or is it better that they all meet up to start and all go in one dodge magnum and use one engine to get them to same place rather than 9 engines? Ol school still works but with a lil more thinking and planning can be way better and less wastefull by a hellova lott......
Hello Jack,
Years back I always ran a 3/4 cold and 3/4 hot and took my branches off along the way.
In doing this I doubled the amount of hot water that needed to flow to the fixture
By running 1/2" pipe you only use one half of the hot water and over time it will easily pay for itself.
Since this video was made I began using other manifolds that are considerably cheaper or I make them out of a few tees depending on the amount of fixtures in the house.
Thanks for commenting and enjoy your week! Al
I was with you unit you suggested I take Magnum instead of a Mustang. lol. But yes I agree. I'm not a plumber but common sense suggest your way. That's what I'm going to do. Thanks.
How many hits of meth did u take before typing all that?
@tpdeehan I think what he is saying is that when you turn the hot water on, it takes a while before the water coming out is actually hot, since there is a volume of fluid in the distal line that has had time to cool after it goes through the water heater. With a large diameter distal line there is more volume, so more water is wasted before you step into the shower. A manifold and small diameter pipes minimize that waste at each use....
Plumbing supplyhousesinbrainerdmn
When one fails, you lose them all... bad idea
What a waste of copper.. water flow is determined by the fixture ..GPM ... not by the size of the copper line run to it. So if I ran a 1 1/4" line to my sink, would I use more water then a 1/2" line?
I think what they were saying is that if the hot water was not insulated and used regularly, it would take a lot more time/water to purge that 1 1/4" line's volume of water before hot water arrived at the fixture. Then once the line is cut off, all the water in the line goes cold again. Over time, this results in a lot of wasted water and water heating costs vs just piping a 1/2" line to each fixture in the house off this manifold.
Just because your hat size is large does not mean you know how to use your brain.
Ur drunk go home
Not a fan of pex anyways. Copper water supply and distribution is more quality and requires more skill. Maybe that's the old school in me but pex is not 'real' plumbing. Sorry.
Agreed copper takes more skill, that's why plumbers hate PEX, anyone can do it!
kurt knapp
Copper does take more time to install. No doubt about it.
I have been in the trade for 35 years now and was very skeptical about pex when it came on board. After doing several test and getting to know the products; it is my go to as far as piping goes.
I have used three different system since then and have had great success.
Pex is an excellent product in my books, but there are times when copper still has to be used.
Thanks for commenting and have a great week! Al
I'm sure that's what the engineers in Rome thought thousands of years ago too about their systems. The fact is as time progresses so does technology. You can be stuck in your ways or move a long. Ask Kodak how the stuck in their ways method worked for them when digital cameras came into play. Copper is still a great medium, but it is very expensive and it continues to increase leaving few people the option to use it.
Seriously?
copper corrodes after 35 years
Hey there! I just found you today on RUclips, and I'm very thankful that did. I consider your information a great resource, and I especially appreciate the on Pex. Keep the video rollin'! :-)