May I suggest instead of using a cutting fluid in aerospace experimental machine shop we used coconut oil or griddle fry which was made from coconut oil. Non-toxic safe to breathe. The reason was it would not soak into the grain of the metal and come out in zero gravity like cutting fluids like Tapping fluid.
I was talking with Vince Fab about getting started with my 3/16" ZrN endmill and I found I can run adaptive cutting at 20,000RPM, CPT=0.0015, 0.1" DOC, and 40% optimal load. It cuts beautifully and I don't have any issues with chatter. Cutting aluminum is super fun and the Shapeoko is a great tool and I love it thus far!
I see the S3 cutting like a boss and then remember back at the puny little X-carve barely making it through a license plate a few years ago in one of Bob Claggett's videos. Such a difference.
This is a fantastic video. I'm thinking about making my own small CNC mill. The issues that gives me pause is that I don't know how strong/stiff the frame needs to be for light cutting such as this. I've always assumed that small, light duty mills like this simply don't have the rigidity to cut cleanly without chatter and resonance. Seeing this video gives me the confidance to move forward. It's actually quite amazing to me that you can climb mill at such high speeds with such a small and flexible mill. Most videos on youtube of people trying this end in massive chatter followed by the aluminum welding to the tool.
I just started building a cnc mill/router that will handle aluminum. It all comes down to backlash and motor torque. nema 17's arent strong enough to push through the aluminum as its cutting, and belt drive or even normal screw drive has WAY too much backlash, so if the bit even moves a little bit, it just gets worse and worse until it fails. I tried getting a M3 machine to do it, the router is more than capable, but that thing just had waaay too much slop in it. Ball screws and linear bearing rails with nema 23's. from all of my research, thats the best way to get into milling 3d alu parts the fastest.
To get the collet tighter move the bottom wrench to left of the top wrench so that you can squeeze the wrenches together. To release the collet reverse the process.
I've run the DOC much deeper with the 1/4" using Trochoidal Milling. Usually the full length of the material 1/4" or 5/16" plate. It generates much less heat and I don't really need to worry about lubrication or clearing with air. I had so many problems using shallow fast approaches, I'd love it if you could give a video exclusively about this technique using full DOC.
Niceeeeeeeeeeee! BTW LOVE LOVE LOVE that ZrN Coated 1/4" end mill. It's where I tell everyone to start with because I don't think you can break it.....(and I've tried). So it's a good tool to learn with. Waiting for you to talk about that stop ring.....
Winston: A) You are such a great resource! Carbide was right to snatch you up. B) Just ordered my XXL and it's now shipping with a "Carbide Compact Router" -- can you give us your impressions and any caveats versus using the Dewalt/Makita? Thanks!
He has a video on his page comparing the two routers, I ended up going with the Makita simply because it doesn't scream as much as the dewalt does at full speed. Both routers are a good choice, but the Makita can spin slower when you need to dial in your speeds a bit more. I ended up getting mine for 129 Canadian which was a great price for me. if you want to watch his video on testing both you will just need to go to his channel and have a look as I can't remember the title off hand. Hope this helps. all the best.
Your finishing pass should be done in one single depth pass, not in a multiple like you did. That is if you really want a nice surface finish of course :)
Hey Winston for 1/4 inch end mill on adaptive clearing, I just made a video with my Shapeoko 3 milling a 1 inch thick piece of aluminum into a putter head and used .1 optimal load with a high speed steel end mill, .04 depth of cut, and 75 in/minute with the Makita router on level 5 and it seemed to work well. You can check out the video to see how the setting performed if you get a chance.
Hi I am really greatfull for your videos, they really help me get that initial feeds and speeds. How about finishing passes on aluminum? Same settings but leave say 0.1mm stock for the finish pass or is a smaller/larger chip load recomended? Thank you very much guys
Thanks so much for this video! Very helpful!! Although My first attempt at cutting a contour with the 201-Z I only had success at 30IPM(762mm/min) with a 0.38mm depth of cut. I wasn't able to go at 48IPM.. I guess I can try speeding up from there... What did help is using Fusion360's to create a roughing pass, especially when cutting an outline.I remember seeing a video about that which I think you made, but I can't find it now...
Winston could you put together some feeds and speed rates for the dewalt doing the same cut you described in this video ,but for hard maple. And can the coated end mills use be also go for wood.
Hello, Thank you for the video. I am interested in buying a shapeoko xxl. I am planning to make a small dolly for myself. Just like Dana Dolly if you have any idea about what it is. It is a 6061 aliminum square plate about 12 inches by 12 inches. It has a mitchell mount in the middle and it also has aliminum 75 mm, 100mm, bowl adapters. I was wondering how can I find out the measurements of those mounts and adapters and put it on the program.
That seems pretty extreme for a 6040, federate seems way too low, especially accounting for chip thinning on a .1 mm pass. If you’re using a machine with the stock flimsy extrusion bed I can’t imagine you didn’t have chatter. On my 6040 I can generally run Winston’s settings in aluminum and even a bit more aggressive without issue, but rarely more than a 6 mm DOC.
I use the 30K rpm die grinder as shapeoko spindle and that dont have speed control . so can i use feedrate and speed for 16k rpm on my shapeoko whitout problem ? I guess aluminum get stack on endmill bit
I want to test out some cuts on aluminum this weekend. I have a Freud 75-025 and their specs for this cutter for aluminum is as follows. 0.250" diameter upcut spiral single flute. 18,000 rpm, .250 doc, Aluminum 90-126 ipm Is this too much for the Shapeoko XL to handle with a Makita? Where would be a good starting point for speeds and feeds with this cutter?
No mention of Plunge Rates, I find I have to plunge really slowly (5 IPM) or I get nasty bogging noises. what plunge rate are you using for pocketing with .25 and .125 bits? Especially if not using ramping or spiral plunging ( ie Carbide Create toolpaths)
No, you don't - aluminum does oxidize but it forms a surface layer which, unlike rust on iron/steel, doesn't damage the underlying metal. (You'll sometimes see visible white oxidation and even damage from contact with road salt and similar contaminants, but this won't happen from oxygen alone.) Aluminum _is_ often anodized/painted/coated/etc. to prevent scratches, because the metal is fairly soft.
@@jwlarocque But the black films that is created from oxidation is messy and hard to clean off isn't it? I bought some aluminum discs from a company and they would be covered in black stuff and if I wiped it off it would be completely covered the next day again.
You are torque limited on the Nomad, you probably will not be able to bump it up very much unless you trade it for a shallower cut. 1/4" is really at the outer limits of the nomad for aluminum.
Thanks for confirming! The video is old enough that I was not sure there would be anyone to respond. The C3D sales site should be updated. How about the 112Z and 102Z, Are they two or three flute? BTW: The video is very helpful as I start my adventures in cutting aluminum.
For metal you’ll also want to get the 274-Z and 278-Z. These are single flute cutters that should do the majority of the work. The 102-Z and 112-Z have two flutes.
Winston I have both vision and neuropathy issues. I own both a Dewalt and a Nikita. I find it quite difficult to change tools and would like to move to a spindle like the one in your video. Can you be very specific as to what it is?
Just got done milling brass. Was pretty amazed with the results
It remains among our favorite materials
May I suggest instead of using a cutting fluid in aerospace experimental machine shop we used coconut oil or griddle fry which was made from coconut oil. Non-toxic safe to breathe. The reason was it would not soak into the grain of the metal and come out in zero gravity like cutting fluids like Tapping fluid.
I was talking with Vince Fab about getting started with my 3/16" ZrN endmill and I found I can run adaptive cutting at 20,000RPM, CPT=0.0015, 0.1" DOC, and 40% optimal load. It cuts beautifully and I don't have any issues with chatter. Cutting aluminum is super fun and the Shapeoko is a great tool and I love it thus far!
I see the S3 cutting like a boss and then remember back at the puny little X-carve barely making it through a license plate a few years ago in one of Bob Claggett's videos. Such a difference.
Thank you WM! This video is gold, I just started cutting Alu with a SO3 XXL and F360 and using the S&Fs shown here I got great results right away!
This is a fantastic video. I'm thinking about making my own small CNC mill. The issues that gives me pause is that I don't know how strong/stiff the frame needs to be for light cutting such as this. I've always assumed that small, light duty mills like this simply don't have the rigidity to cut cleanly without chatter and resonance. Seeing this video gives me the confidance to move forward. It's actually quite amazing to me that you can climb mill at such high speeds with such a small and flexible mill. Most videos on youtube of people trying this end in massive chatter followed by the aluminum welding to the tool.
I just started building a cnc mill/router that will handle aluminum. It all comes down to backlash and motor torque. nema 17's arent strong enough to push through the aluminum as its cutting, and belt drive or even normal screw drive has WAY too much backlash, so if the bit even moves a little bit, it just gets worse and worse until it fails. I tried getting a M3 machine to do it, the router is more than capable, but that thing just had waaay too much slop in it. Ball screws and linear bearing rails with nema 23's. from all of my research, thats the best way to get into milling 3d alu parts the fastest.
To get the collet tighter move the bottom wrench to left of the top wrench so that you can squeeze the wrenches together. To release the collet reverse the process.
I've run the DOC much deeper with the 1/4" using Trochoidal Milling. Usually the full length of the material 1/4" or 5/16" plate. It generates much less heat and I don't really need to worry about lubrication or clearing with air. I had so many problems using shallow fast approaches, I'd love it if you could give a video exclusively about this technique using full DOC.
Niceeeeeeeeeeee! BTW LOVE LOVE LOVE that ZrN Coated 1/4" end mill. It's where I tell everyone to start with because I don't think you can break it.....(and I've tried). So it's a good tool to learn with. Waiting for you to talk about that stop ring.....
Your 201-Z recipe is pushing 1050 SFM. That is pretty high, especially wihout coolant! Surprised that works and doesn't start welding!
NYC CNC was able to push this machine to cut at 75 in/min with almost a 100% step over.....
Thanks, Winston! Very well put together video.
i have a hard time chamfering aluminum would love to see a video on that
Winston:
A) You are such a great resource! Carbide was right to snatch you up.
B) Just ordered my XXL and it's now shipping with a "Carbide Compact Router" -- can you give us your impressions and any caveats versus using the Dewalt/Makita? Thanks!
He has a video on his page comparing the two routers, I ended up going with the Makita simply because it doesn't scream as much as the dewalt does at full speed. Both routers are a good choice, but the Makita can spin slower when you need to dial in your speeds a bit more. I ended up getting mine for 129 Canadian which was a great price for me. if you want to watch his video on testing both you will just need to go to his channel and have a look as I can't remember the title off hand. Hope this helps. all the best.
Your finishing pass should be done in one single depth pass, not in a multiple like you did. That is if you really want a nice surface finish of course :)
On a 6mm single flute bit i get 3000mm/min 4.5mm(aluminum) 24000Rpm and 3mm single flute bit i get 1mm aluminum 2000mm 18000Rpm
Hey Winston for 1/4 inch end mill on adaptive clearing, I just made a video with my Shapeoko 3 milling a 1 inch thick piece of aluminum into a putter head and used .1 optimal load with a high speed steel end mill, .04 depth of cut, and 75 in/minute with the Makita router on level 5 and it seemed to work well. You can check out the video to see how the setting performed if you get a chance.
Hi I am really greatfull for your videos, they really help me get that initial feeds and speeds. How about finishing passes on aluminum? Same settings but leave say 0.1mm stock for the finish pass or is a smaller/larger chip load recomended? Thank you very much guys
Thanks so much for this video! Very helpful!! Although My first attempt at cutting a contour with the 201-Z I only had success at 30IPM(762mm/min) with a 0.38mm depth of cut. I wasn't able to go at 48IPM.. I guess I can try speeding up from there... What did help is using Fusion360's to create a roughing pass, especially when cutting an outline.I remember seeing a video about that which I think you made, but I can't find it now...
Love it !!!
What is the formula how you calculate ?
Winston could you put together some feeds and speed rates for the dewalt doing the same cut you described in this video ,but for hard maple.
And can the coated end mills use be also go for wood.
It would be nice if I had got an answer to the above question Jeff peters
Hello, Thank you for the video. I am interested in buying a shapeoko xxl. I am planning to make a small dolly for myself. Just like Dana Dolly if you have any idea about what it is. It is a 6061 aliminum square plate about 12 inches by 12 inches. It has a mitchell mount in the middle and it also has aliminum 75 mm, 100mm, bowl adapters. I was wondering how can I find out the measurements of those mounts and adapters and put it on the program.
I just did 11mm DOC on my chinese 6040 machine 🤷🏻♂️😄 at 14k rpm and 270mm/m feed. And load was 0.1. Machined fine. Was a bit too noisy tho.
That seems pretty extreme for a 6040, federate seems way too low, especially accounting for chip thinning on a .1 mm pass. If you’re using a machine with the stock flimsy extrusion bed I can’t imagine you didn’t have chatter. On my 6040 I can generally run Winston’s settings in aluminum and even a bit more aggressive without issue, but rarely more than a 6 mm DOC.
I use the 30K rpm die grinder as shapeoko spindle and that dont have speed control . so can i use feedrate and speed for 16k rpm on my shapeoko whitout problem ? I guess aluminum get stack on endmill bit
What about the single flute 278 and 282? Do I just divide S&F down based on 1/2 or 1/3 fewer flutes?
I want to test out some cuts on aluminum this weekend. I have a Freud 75-025 and their specs for this cutter for aluminum is as follows.
0.250" diameter upcut spiral single flute.
18,000 rpm, .250 doc,
Aluminum 90-126 ipm
Is this too much for the Shapeoko XL to handle with a Makita? Where would be a good starting point for speeds and feeds with this cutter?
Thanks for making this video. Do you know which aluminum alloy you were machining here? Keep up the good work!
6061.
@@carbide3d Perfect, thanks. I've cut a lot of 7075 on my shapeoko using comparable settings, but am in fact looking to give 6061 a try.
No mention of Plunge Rates, I find I have to plunge really slowly (5 IPM) or I get nasty bogging noises. what plunge rate are you using for pocketing with .25 and .125 bits? Especially if not using ramping or spiral plunging ( ie Carbide Create toolpaths)
You don't plunge, you enter from the side if ramping or helix isn't an option.
aluminium feed and seed
By the rough top edge of your cut you can tell you are actually going to slow in this. Close though
Don't you have to put a protective finish on aluminum or it turns black from oxidation? I never hear anyone mention that.
No, you don't - aluminum does oxidize but it forms a surface layer which, unlike rust on iron/steel, doesn't damage the underlying metal. (You'll sometimes see visible white oxidation and even damage from contact with road salt and similar contaminants, but this won't happen from oxygen alone.)
Aluminum _is_ often anodized/painted/coated/etc. to prevent scratches, because the metal is fairly soft.
@@jwlarocque But the black films that is created from oxidation is messy and hard to clean off isn't it? I bought some aluminum discs from a company and they would be covered in black stuff and if I wiped it off it would be completely covered the next day again.
Do you have some suggestions with the 1/4" collet for the nomad. At 10k RPM, do I keep the speed down at 20 or bump it up?
You are torque limited on the Nomad, you probably will not be able to bump it up very much unless you trade it for a shallower cut. 1/4" is really at the outer limits of the nomad for aluminum.
I just looked up the 201Z on the carbide3d site and it says the bit is two flute, but the video says 3 Flute.... which is it?
Good catch. They have 3 flutes.
Thanks for confirming! The video is old enough that I was not sure there would be anyone to respond. The C3D sales site should be updated.
How about the 112Z and 102Z, Are they two or three flute?
BTW: The video is very helpful as I start my adventures in cutting aluminum.
For metal you’ll also want to get the 274-Z and 278-Z. These are single flute cutters that should do the majority of the work.
The 102-Z and 112-Z have two flutes.
shop.carbide3d.com/collections/cutters/products/278z-25-single-flute-zrn
nice video, do you know which alloy of aluminium is it?
Probably 6061. I’m cutting 7075 with these settings just fine.
Great
What do you think the tolerance is with aluminum on the 3?
Are you using the standard Z or HDZ/ Zplus?
Which spindle & inverter are used in that video?
No spindle / inverter - As he says, he's using a Makita router and recommending speeds for that and a DeWalt 611 router
@@-GuitarZero aah I didn't see a naked Makita router for quite some time now.
Do you use the same cutting parameters for brass?
I back off by about 20% on my speeds and feeds, as brass is a harder material.
-W
@@carbide3d awesome thanks
Can it handle 7075 t6 aluminum?
Yes, you just need to back off on depth of cut by about 30%.
which is better Shapoko or nomad?????????
What's better an emerald or a ruby? They each have their strong points. So I like to ask: What's your need?
That's like asking what the difference is between a sports car and a pickup truck. Question is too vague.
@@WinstonMakes Perhaps an English Sports car.....and a Ford PU....lol
What spindle is that in the video?
Makita equivalent., 10k RPM minimum.
Winston
I have both vision and neuropathy issues. I own both a Dewalt and a Nikita. I find it quite difficult to change tools and would like to move to a spindle like the one in your video. Can you be very specific as to what it is?
@@WinstonMakes where to buy this makita equivalent
@@Z-add Just search "Palm Router" on ebay.
@@Hadawagon It is functionally identical to a Makita. If you have trouble with the name brand routers, this will not make your life easier.