Vaganova vs. Balanchine Technique (Feat. Jovani!) | CHUNNER STUDIO
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2022
- Hi guys! I've received a lot of questions on what the key differences are between Vaganova and Balanchine technique. It was so much fun to work with Jovani Furlan from NYCB to break down the distinctions for y'all.
Jovani's Instagram: bit.ly/3CrqvYW
Furlan Dancewear: bit.ly/3cltTu0
Chunner Studio Patreon: bit.ly/3OFzPeg
Studio Instagram: bit.ly/3z6R02w
My Instagram: bit.ly/3b9Yjyy
Website: chunwaichan.com/
Special shoutout to Janette and Jake for your amazing support!
Editing by Alessia Ling de Borbon 
Кино
As a former dancer with NYCB and having gone through SAB my entire childhood, I agree with John that this is a wonderful intro to the differences, for me as well, as I was trained completely Balanchine. Now as a teacher, I teach what I was taught, and many of my students were taught Vaganova. I never tell them one is right one wrong, but love introducing them to the training of Mr. Balanchine. I also have to give credit to SAB and it's amazing teachers, and to those teaching at NYCB. These lovely young male dancers were not trained personally by Mr. Balanchine, and to understand his differences comes from the teacher. It is clear to me that Jovani has an excellent understanding of what Mr. Balanchine trained us to do, and how to dance, and how to relate to the audience, and if you were not originally trained that way, it's not an easy adaptation. I remember stories of how hard it was for Peter Martins when he first joined the company to adapt. Thankfully there are still many dancers and teacher's at SAB, of course I have mention Suki Schorer, and as well as other dancers that danced in the company when Mr Balanchine was alive. As long as they are there, Mr. Balanchine's training will stay intact. For Mr. B, It is not just about the steps, but it's presentation. It's not about how many turns you can do, but how they are executed, it is not how high you can jump, but also about how you land, it is not just about how high you can get your leg up, but how you put it there, and how you present the foot, and yes it was so much about musicality! As Jovani said, Mr. Balanchine gave us, and his ballets give/gave dancers the freedom to be ourselves even if in the corps. I think he just loved that once we had the technique and learned his ballets, he could let us be free, allowed and encouraged us to not hold back....ever. He taught what we needed to know in order to do his ballets. Every day was a preparation for what we had to be able to accomplish on stage that night. His technique and his work ethic gave us the freedom to fly to the most beautiful ballets to the most magnificent music. There is no right or wrong, both methods have created magnificent dancers the world over. No need to say one is better than the other, but to appreciate both methods. In this video you both did that, and charmingly so...Thanks for you video.
I think Chunner's frappe is more the Bolshoi style (Russian that's a bit different from Vaganova, which is also commonly adopted in China). From what I was taught, Vaganova (in the strict sense of the term, as stemming from the Vaganova school itself) also starts pirouettes en dehors from a straight back leg and alongé arms, whereas Bolshoi starts them with both legs bent and English school starts with both legs bent and round arms. In terms of 'connection with the audience', I think the idea in classical ballet is that there is a fourth wall, and the ballet is supposed to be detached from the audience's real life. Regardless, it's so great to hear both dancers reflect on their experiences working with different styles.
Bravo Jovani. You got everything right about the way Balanchine wanted the steps done. People forget that Balanchine was trained at the Imperial Ballet in St. Petersburg years before Vaganova started teaching. There are many similarities of course, but over the years the Vaganova technique has been changed, whereas Balanchine’s technique has been more carefully passed on. I’ve not only taught at Balanchine’s school and company, at his request, but also taught at the Bolshoi when I was setting his ballets there. I also studied with the Bolshoi on two separate 6-week occasions when they were on tour to Los Angeles and NYC. Balanchine extended the classic ballet technique, whereas Vaganova only preserved it, but stopped there.
A relaxed flex foot during frappes is taught in the Cecchetti method. Which influenced the Russian styles including Vaganova.
Though the cecchetti method does have a relaxed flexed foot
ruclips.net/video/MIL4Mxg91Lc/видео.html
the Vaganova method as demonstrated here ruclips.net/video/MIL4Mxg91Lc/видео.html
starts in
Sur le Cou-de-Pied with a pointed foot
I really love Cecchetti
I always did my Frappes flexed foot.
@@jayque did you train in vaganova?
@@allegro1317 ISTD and RAD but I visited Vaganova and also my teacher is based in Checetti method.
The Balanchine technique looks exhausting to me😄, I think I wouldn't make it through barre! About the frappé question: I was trained in the RAD method for seven years, we were taught to do frappés with a flexed foot, and with a pointed foot when we did them on demi-pointe. I also learned a bit of Vaganove method (the teachers weren't good, so my experience wasn't very positive) and there we always did frappés with a pointed foot. I missed the RAD frappés terribly, it's such a good feeling.
I was taught frappe with a flexed foot and a pointed foot by the same teacher. She showed us the differences between several methods. She also taught us that it was a strength-building exercise either way (though the “active, engaged muscles” approach was present everywhere from the simplest plie through expanding our turn-out while closing tendu back into the starting position) - to strike (that is what frappe means, after all) down to the floor and push out from it with the muscles in the foot/toes. She always wanted us to have a very strong/fast/energetic impulse and get a good audible strike on the floor with the ball of the foot (especially if we were wearing pointe shoes). I read through the comments and I think this is closest to the “prep for petit jete” theory. The trick to maintaining even hips during the strike is for the dancer to pick a striking spot on the floor close enough to their center that they’ll be able to make good contact with the floor - too close and the foot won’t be able to continue through the floor and extend into tendu, too far and there won’t be enough contact to make the proper striking sound or spring through the floor (and the hips might be tempted to dip). I do also see that the exercise helped me to understand how far my reach on pointe would be - the striking point is about as far as I can reach on a pointe shoe without missing the platform. I don’t think that was the primary purpose though; I think my teacher included it in our barre more as a preparation for jumps and the “platform awareness” was a connection I made on my own.
This ⬆️⬆️⬆️ 100% this. I was taught the same way.
Flexed frappe is simply a character dance frappe- it is not used in classical ballet unless the choreographer decides to use it. It can be taught in ballet class, but traditionally it’s taught in character class.
@@ipt3000flexed foot taught in RAD (non-character) ballet class.
@@alisonjoubert9960 well, that’s probably why there’s a lot of misunderstanding about it. Flexed foot frappe is taught as charachter in other traditions and schools, because it does not have classical styling. It has character styling - the entire feeling of it the look of it. The aesthetic of it is character styling so I don’t know why they would teach it differently at RAD but I don’t know much about anything of that school. But from the study of classical art, which is a requirement, at many of the other major schools of Ballet, definitely, it is a character step because aesthetically and rhythmically it does not match what would be considered classical.
Vaganova is a deep science, it is always produced the highest quality education and of course the best dancers. It took a long time to learn , you can’t say you understand it after couple classes ,and even years. But it is made for Petipa ballets, and Balanchine who is actually Russian trained made his method for his ballets. I love Balanchine as a greatest choreographer, but I like Vaganova as the best considered way to educate dancers. It is really huge to learn fast.
Great comment. Thank you !!
“A deep science “? Are you sure? People throw the word “science “ around too much these days.
You somehow very boldly united Vaganova and Petipa here. Nevertheless, it is known that Petipa could not stand Vaganova at all, even canceled visits to performances when he found out that Vaganova was participating in them. Petipa considered her manner of dancing as too sporty, rough and pompous. This is very noticeable in the dancers brought up according to her training program. Thank God, the Vaganova Academy today does not strictly follow the Vaganova's narratives.
@@Dima.Demidovwow interesting, never knew that about Petipa. Apparently Balanchine found Vaganova boring too I've heard. I like how flexible their dancers are and their graceful form. But artistically they are pretty boring.
@@fluffywuffykinsiesI disagree . I believe vaganova ballet is the most beautiful artistically. Their hands are so expressive , and facial expressions are always genuine
I've been waiting for another one of these videos for Years now!!! Just so you know, there have been many principal dancers from backgrounds other than Balanchine that did not turn from a straight back leg with front leg in plie (like Peter, Helgi, and a whole bunch of others). It's not a strict requirement. The presentation of the fondu - it's about presenting a turned out leg and properly shaped foot - the 1 ft drop at the end is obviously an exaggeration. It's kind of like sur le coup de pied in that the movement shapes the turn out. The bottom of the grand plie is about not-sitting, in other words: speed. Same for the heels in landings and going-through positions: transition and speed - because you're on your way to another step! Jete and assemble is about making the final shape in the air and not in the landing. For jete you get to coupe in the air so you see the position - just like assemble - assemble in the air! Sur le coup de pied is about presentation of a turned out leg and again - properly shaped foot. Develope is about getting there quickly - and ONE (you're there!)
In center you turn your upper body a little more front so there's a little more twist in the torso in croise and efface. The arms moving - like taking off your t-shirt! Just so you know many principal dancers at NYCB - Danish and Russians, still used vaganova arms and technique and many times struggled a bit with the speed of things - they didn't change everything about themselves. Peter and Helgi NEVER turned using the Balanchine pirouette prep.
In Balanchine technique you can actually see a difference in the leg muscles in using the turn out - there is more of a development of the inner thighs and legs have a longer look.
Music - Balanchine was a musician. His brother was a composer. He expected his dancers to count the music no matter how complex (Stravinsky ballets!!! - you better know your counts! lol)
Movement - Balanchine wants you to TRAVEL - tombe pas de bourre glissade jete - travels the entire space! Suki is probably THE SOURCE currently. She has a great book! : Suki Schorer On Balanchine Technique .
thank you Chunner and Jovani!
Vaganova trained here 🙏🏻 I always learned flexed foot frappe unless on Demi pointe. Demi pointe was always pointed and wrapped
When you say you are “Vaganova trained”
what exactly do you mean by that ? Were you trained in St. Petersburg?
Going from a Balanchine school to privates in Russia with a classic Vaganova teacher, they were horrified that Balanchine had taught me to always pointe in frappe and insisted on flexed frappes. No idea why that is though, great question!
The purpose of the flexed foot in frappé is to exercise the Achilles tendon, but it's unnecessary, as there are stretches for that purpose. It's also considered to be more elementary, and used primarily in beginning classes/training.
Well, I guess there’s a lot of debate in Russia because my mentor is the former Director of the St. Petersburg school and is the former Artistic Director of the Kirov as well and he insists that a flexed foot for frappe would not be taught outside of a character class and in St. Petersburg it is fully pointed and also wrapped depending on where it’s coming from --
So informative! I hope you can make more videos like this...it's such a privilege to get these detailed insights from such elite dancers!
Absolutely loved this video. I shared it with my staff and all of my students. I am a SAB visiting fellow 2022-23, and I have changed our entire curriculum to Balanchine! I was trained in both Vaganova and Balanchine. Thank you for the video!
Thanks for the excellent breakdown! This is by far one of the best on all of RUclips. I trained strickly in Cecchetti and always wanted to train in Vaganova and Balanchine. Thanks for the inspiration!
When I was younger I was trained in Royal and at the studio I dance at now we are taught Balanchine and it's a big difference. One thing I really love is that we get to have flowy arms versus everything being so sharp.
This is so helpful, thank you. I guess I've been raised seeing more Vaganova so it will be nice to learn a new aesthetic .
This is so great! I trained cecchetti & rad, and as adult have been more interested in vaganonova, and take online class from a lot of balanchine dancers. And I found I’ve had so many questions about different ways of doing things and which way is “right” or why one teacher says one thing and someone else another thing... So this has been such a fabulous learning opportunity! Love how u explain not only the difference but the why behind the difference. Super helpful!
Thanks!!
I loved this video and learning more about this methodology. I believe that Vaganova has more rigidity in the movements, however it brings a good technique and strengthens the dancer.
Agreed
I think their movements are very flowing and flexible and like sinuous. Whereas Balanchine is very sharp and quick. I don’t think vaganova is rigid at all! I mean check their port de bras compared to any other style.
Very interesting! I personally find the vaganova poses aesthetically more pleasing (like you demonstrated the attitude) but I find the movement of Balanchine more exciting.
I am wondering, does it work the other way around that a Balanchine-trained dancer can adapt to the Vaganova style?
my teacher who danced with balanchine (while he was alive) always said balanchine would say his technique was modernized vaganova (he trained at the vaganova school)
Not easily. After dancing Balanchine anything else seems restricted. Not really “dancing.”
@@Xxrawrzx09 Balanchine trained at the Imperial School, and Madame Vaganova wasn't teaching there yet. The school was renamed the Vaganova Ballet Academy only in 1957.
@@Xxrawrzx09 no Balanchine did not train at the Vaganova School. As mentions rightly John Clifford ,he was trained at the Imperial Ballet in St Petersburg years before Vaganova started teaching. So on a way Balanchine is closer to the "original" russian teaching than Vaganova is...
Yes and no. Balanchine took the Russian method and modernised it and evolved it. It is right to say that Balanchine was trained with a method that's closer to the original than the method vaganova was trained with, but the method balanchine created to train dancers for his new ballets it way further than vaganovas. This is because obviously dance evolved, but if the Russians tried their best to preserve their school, balanchine tried his best to create a new way of dancing. Both parts did a great job and the ballet community should be thankful for both styles being still in existence today
This was really great! I was Russian trained but have really come to live Balanchine technique. Fun watching you both collaborating together. Bring us more! How about some tips on how you achieve the quick and light steps in Mr B’s choreography?
The Vaganova is very controlled, strict which creates a balanced body when doing center work and partner work. I’m myself have been trained in only the Russian style because it allows the body to protect the micro muscles and you don’t have as many injuries. There are videos online with split screens that show the differences in the Corps de ballet and how controlled they are with their core and presentation. The soloist also have differences and are able to have better strengths with the Russian method versus the RAD and Cecchetti.
We have to remember that Enrico Cecchetti was the ballet master for the Imperial Russian Ballet and then the Ballets Russes, and gave classes to the professional dancers including Agrippina Vaganova and George Balanchine. Did they perhaps build on Cecchetti's Method?
@PeterMessick Vaganova recognized the contributions of Cecchetti to the development of Russian ballet, but it must also be understood that Cecchetti only taught the highest levels at the Imperial School. He did not teach children at all. What Vaganova did was to develop an 8-year program of study for students from the age of 10 through 18. The method is highly scientific, musical and artistically developmental from the onset to the final years in the class of perfection. Vaganova drew from the Imperial Russian School, from Maestro Cecchetti as there was no such thing as the Cecchetti method during his time in Russia, there actually was no such thing during his lifetime, the Danish School and the French School. My teacher of methodology in St Petersburg, Russia at Vaganova Academy, Valentina Vasilievna Rumyantseva was a student of Vaganova, trained teachers and students in Beijing, China and later at Vaganova Academy. China was eventually very influenced by the teachings of the RAD and is quite different from what is taught in St. Petersburg, Russia. The other missing ingredient to this conversation is that Vaganova methodology was never meant to be a dogma, rather it has changed and developed tremendously from when Vaganova was writing and re-writing the many editions of her book. The intention of Vaganova schooling is to change according to the choreographic needs of choreography. I was in Russia studying the methodology as Mariinsky began dancing Balanchine choreography. The Russian methodology cabinet took things from what they saw to implement in their process. Much of what one sees in Balanchine style is from the character work of Vaganova methodology, so the Russians did not have to learn new things, they just had to start using them to perform the Balanchine ballets. I know it was difficult for them, as their character work requires tremendous acting skills therefore separating the acting from the physicality of the movements was not an easy endeavor.
This was a lot of fun to watch! Maybe you can get someone to compare Bournonville too some time.
My teachers who danced for Balanchine taught me rond de jambe dynamic "out and around," like shoot the leg out fast then drift around slower, on diagonal however far there is time for. Then 10 years later a RAD teacher looks personally offended anyone would skip perfect front and back on purpose...
There is no doubt that Agrippina loved Cecchetti's technique and teachings, but she wrote that battements frappés should be done with a pointed foot in sur le cou-de-pied front or back; thing is, while Russia entirely has the same syllabus and main technical principles, some schools differ slightly, and older russian teachers may teach flexed battement frappé. Even Marina Semyonova is seen teaching battement frappé with flexed feet, and she was one of the star students of Agrippina !
Here is the footage: ruclips.net/video/--qeM1qLey4/видео.html
And the cou de pied to russian attitude, retire to make a balanchine attitude...what an AMAZING tip!!!
Great video !!!!! Please keep on posting :)
This was very interesting to watch, thank you!
I grew up dancing primarily with the Cecchetti method, but was also taught other methods (that way if we were ever asked to switch our method for an audition, we would know how to). Although our standard in class was Cecchetti, our teacher would often clarify if she wanted us to use a specific method for a move or a dance.
We rarely used Balanchine in class, but would sometimes be directed to use it for a special number/performance piece. I think my teacher thought that style to be more of an embellishment to adorn a dance with and did not prefer its style when it came to technique.
Omg this was so interesting. I’ve been taught in both as well. The flex is def a thing in vaganova and if you look at the book of classical
Technique written by Vaganova it is flexed. I see how I’ve blended so much of each style into my own dancing !!
For frappe sorry didn’t mention
I think RAD and Cecchetti both teach frappe with a flexed foot, and at least with RAD, it is to prepare for petit jete.
Frappe is the mechanism of the jump if a flexed ankle is used.
Two very technically neat principles of NYCB. Love you both.
Really thank you , both of you💚💪
Our pleasure!
Vaganova vs Balanchine is like Wing Chun vs Kung Fu
About the frappe, I learned in the Vaganova methodology only by pointe never flex
A lot of the comments here say Vaganova is also flexed, but pointed if supporting leg on a rise, so it seems the jury is out, or very confused on this.
I'm trained in the Vaganova method and teachers have given me frappe both ways : flexed and pointed /wrapped.
the main difference is that Vaganova does not strike the floor. the level of the leg stays the same, the knee stays put and the foot extends exactly from the ankle / base of the calf. I think she thought it was inefficient to drop the whole leg (potentially dropping the hip too) to strike the floor. it's an extra movement that is not needed.
We saw it here first! "The Chunner technique"! 😎 Great video! Very much appreciate the attention to detail. Thank you! Even though I am not a professional dancer, your video was educational and informative. I learned a lot. Amazing seeing the difference between balanchine and Vaganova! Thank you!
Smart, sophisticated, Interesting conversation. As a guy,, always interesting the difference in the perspective of male ballet technique … Balanchine’s profound influence
Interesting thank you
Interesting! Balanchine developes have a little air pad de chaval action going on haha
Frappe is always flexed as that is the correct and original ballet step/barre exercise
I loved watching this, especially the frappe conversation. I teach, and my students know that I do not believe in frappe unless it is from a coffee shop. So I do more fondu and rond de jamb. I have trained in both styles, a fun topic. Bravo.
I'm not a dancer, and I am learning more about ballet because I really enjoy watching. And learning! I've been reading this comment section waiting for someone to make a joke about frappes - you win! 🏆
The actual reason I'm reading comments is because I learn so much from the experiences of people who write them. I don't find this quality of commentary in other areas of RUclips, except sometimes classical music. Have a great day!
Vaganova all the way. MUCH more beautiful to the eye. I honestly think there's no comparison. If you look at the best ballerinas in the world performing you will see that most of them are trained vaganova and the reputation speaks for itself
11:45 DYING you never FLEX?!?!
Vaganova trained and i cannot
哇！好久不见
Frappe in vaganova it does have flexed version, two types, flexed and pointed sur le cou de pied
Very cute couple
My teachers said frappes flexed are Italian vs the pointed version it Russian
I enjoyed this video. I was trained in Checchetti as a youngster and RAD as an adult. I love both styles of teaching and used a flex foot for frappe. I have to admit I am not such a fan of Balanchine……..to me the dancing looks sloppy. Heels don’t go to the floor, pirouettes not very well executed, etc. the dancing doesn’t look clean to me. Love the Royal Ballet and all their different choreographers. I have to say that watching Vaganova trained dancers perform in the Royal Ballet is spectacular. They are perfection on stage to me!
The approach in tendu is so different between the two…
We stan a couple 🌈
Love wins!
I believe that Russian dancers are the undisputed best in the world and have been for a century. They are the ones who push the envelope of what the body can do. Their technique is obviously superior. The choreographic charm of Balanchine cannot match the classic ballets in my view. I have never described a Balanchine ballet as unforgettable. I have seen a Giselle that was unforgettable. The technique was so high and yet so completely subordinate to the sublime emotions of the dance. Russian dancing is like prayer to God. One walks away better, stronger.
I can’t get behind the short Balanchine attitude mostly lol. It’s not very pretty imo, but of course it’s just an opinion and it probably helps them be quicker if they don’t have to extend it so far. I don’t think of most Balanchine ballets as ethereal and magical like I do some of the Petipa choreo. I think of them as cute or pretty or strong, but rarely do they bring me to tears. Sorry Mr B lol
But the choreographer of most of these classical ballets is Petipa who is French. Russia produces great dancers but not great original ballets.
Vaganova schooling does not flex the foot in battement frappé nor does it ever brush the floor. The movement is taught from the wrapped cou de pied always with the toes pointing to floor and at 45 degrees. later on demi pointe. Most of what they say about Vaganova schooling is not correct. Perhaps they studied with former dancers who said they taught the Vaganova method, but they had never studied as a teacher? There is more to say, but perhaps it is not worth saying. Next time you would like to compare Balanchine to Vaganova please make sure the person discussing Vaganova knows it as a teacher, not only as a student and a dancer.
Completely misunderstanding about Vaganova.... so pity...
Are they gay couple? They look good together❤
Баланчин создал свою технику специально для американцев, которые никак не могли освоить русский классический балет..
Dancers are often no good in talking. But here, the whole idea is not well prepared. Make a plan before. A bit more effort would make it much more interesting.
Great point. And may be good to be dress properly for demonstration any ballet movements as well.
How about don't watch it if you don't like it... they are very interesting and are both FAR better dancers than you will ever be, you are slating the video sitting on your arse hiding behind a computer!
@@nilasspasov8417what are you wearing whilst sitting on your arse slating the video... PJ's or sweatpants!
@@tijay8507 You follow the YT propaganda, that only positive comments are allowed...
@@sakura44553 Thank you, for intelligent respond .