UPDATE: We’d like to clarify the section of the video between 49:54 and 50:47. Spoilers for the first campaign of the game follow. … … … … … … … … … … After the publication of the video the publisher got in touch with us and informed us that the plot twist we elaborate on is subverted elsewhere in the plot. Despite extensive playthrough, we did not encounter this subversion. After we received this communication, we explored the campaign book further and discovered that such a subversion does exist and it undermines the tropes established by the original plot twist, however it is locked away behind specific criteria that are highly dependent on chance. The publisher did insist that this subversion is alluded to in all critical parts of the story but did not inform us on where else it can be discovered by the majority of players in a single playthrough.
@@TheLettucefolk You must be new here. Efka is all about back-handed comments. They gave you, in a pinned comment, a clarification that they missed a story element that is in the campaign book. They were not "wrong" about it. It just never came up when they were playing, which is a perfectly valid gripe.
@@TheLettucefolkBut they weren't wrong because they couldn't have possibly known that from their own gameplay. They can't review the game as the creators of the game, they can only do it as players and if, as players, something is easy to miss and you missed it, how would you even talked about it?
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If I remember correctly the last 3 story arcs gave different answers/plot twists when you finnished them. And I would estimate that on average you finnish 2 out of the 3 so finding the subversion is more likely than not. It was cool that having finnished all 3 of the last story arcs gave you a chance of defeating the final boss in a rather different way.
This seems like it would work better on a computer, so you didn't have to do the setup or remember all the rules. Mind you, that's my reaction to a lot of complicated board games.
So true. There's a certain complexity level where the reason (for me) for tabletop games (having a shared experience, in-person with friends) is out-focussed by the attention needed to operate the mechanics of the game 😕
As someone who has played over 100 hours of ATO as a 2-player game, I wanted to put forward my thoughts on the game and the points made in the video (loosely in the order of the video): - I 100% agree that the game is incredibly complex, there are many, many rules and that could difinitely turn many people away. - The game takes up a huge amount of table space and has hundreds of hours of content. If you can commit to that, the gameplay is incredibly rewarding, but it isn't for everyone. - I definitely agree that this game is too much for 4 players. 1-2 players is best. - I partially disagree with the video's statement of randomness in battles, especially the comparison to Flux. Yes, there are extreme moments of good or bad luck, but there are many ways to mitigate that variance, allowing you to reroll dice or even retry battles. Additionally, losing a battle is not the end of the game, you can still get resources and mitigate your losses; the focus is on managing your resources to win the campaign. Bad luck in one battle is just a setback. - I've had a very different experience with Out-of-range evades. Very rarely is it worthwhile to just run away from the primordial and burn turns. You need to attack to build rage. Its often much better to manipulate who is going to be attacked than to avoid the attack entirely. - I strongly disagree with the video's point that fighting the same primordial becomes monotonous. As the primordials level up they get new abilities that recontextualize their fight which, combined with your constantly updating gear and loadouts, keeps fights fresh an engaging. You do need to craft more specialized gear as the primordial gets stronger, but I've never felt that it makes loadouts stagnant. - Ambushes happen a couple times each cycle. I'm surprised the video brings them up. Maybe they were not removing the cards from the deck? - The Adversaries (that chace you down) are definitely not invincible bosses, so I never really felt the issues with that. I do agree, however, that adversary battles can sometime become monotonous when they occur too often. - I definitely agree that the adventure tables dont work well for multiple reasons. They arent game breaking, but could definitely be improved. - I got very different theming out of the game. (Slight spoilers in this section) I agree that portrayal of the nymphs is exploitative, but outside of that I didnt really see the focus on the exploitation of women, especially in cycle 1. This is largely up to your own interpretation, but I found that the issues in cycle 1 were mostly caused by multiple Men's grief, not a Woman's. You do have to piece together these relevations, so they could easily be missed. Personally I enjoyed the way that each faction was morally gray, having both sympathetic and adversarial consituents, with a huge amout of lore to piece together what actually happened between these factions. - I agree that the grid to track decisions is very hard to remember and the alternatives mentioned in the video would be a definite improvement. Thanks for reading if you got this far. I overall agree with the video that the game is too complex for many and requires a huge time investment. I also agree that there are multiple systems that show the inexperience of the developers. However, I think the video is too harsh on the story and combat, both of which my play group has found consistently engaging and is what has kept us playing every weekend. There is a reason that the game is so highly rated on BGG.
Good responses, I'm between C1 & C2 and had similar thoughts. The difference is that I like the system of the adventures. I think it gives a realism to the fact that in life we don't know what we are getting into. It makes fate less predictable, future more chaotic, information less complete and that are all things that I personally enjoy in ATO. It is randomized but at least it isn't linear/semi-linear, and that feels like to me like a valid design choice which pays onto the uniqueness of this game in my collection. I only wished I could remember more of the adventures, which is hard in this scope. Often times, I read a story in the middle of an adventure and I lost context as a lot of time had passed since reading the last entry.
It's rated highly on BGG because it's a niche game which caters to a very specific group of people who all like it for the reasons it exists. Any super limited release like this tends to have overwhelmingly positive reviews because the people who like it are the ones who purchased it in the first place. This is just one of the many biases the BGG rating system has, it just happens to be magnified for games like this.
@@PRC533 wouldn't you agree that in this argument we should see a lot more games with rates over 9 for a significant #voters? (I'd say 1000 votes is a good number to rule out collusion). My point being that lots of crowdfunded games are niche and limited, and yet ATO has the highest rating of them all. Maybe it isn't a good measure to compare the rating of ATO against retail available games (e.g. Wingspan), but bias or not it has meaning.
@@PRC533 Certainly, niche appeal and a limited release will effect a rating, hence why the "Geek Rating" probably uses a Bayesian average or something similar. However, that doesn't allow you to entirely discount a high score. There are many niche games that don't have good ratings.
I am in the camp that ATO is an amazing game. Ive played through cycle 1 multiple times. I agree with basically everything you wrote. I wish the choice matrix in the app would remind you what story decisions you made. As for the adventure tables ive been thinking that I would roll the die to figure out which stories I would start and then just play those out and not reroll until I finished one. As designed its a little too fractured for my liking.
Best video that was able to explain why someone wouldn't like this game. I have backed the smallest portion of the system - Sins Summer to find out for myself in the least overwhealming way possible. My guess is that by the end of that I'll feel like I'll have seen and enjoyed enough, but would rather have more focused narrative experiences - or ones with just emergent shorter ones.
Good call. I think it will be a good “introduction” to the game, if we can use that word for something that’s still bigger than most campaign games. I love cycles 1-3 but I still have 4-5 and Kingdoms Forlorn coming so even I couldn’t convince myself I needed all 4 seasons here.
I should have done what you did. Instead, now I'm worried about receiving a $1000 paper weight 😅 Welp, hopefully the resale value is there if it isn't my cup of tea
Watching this review makes me want to get Sleeping Gods back off the shelf, and then to play Oathsworn when it arrives. AT:O looks way better than KDM, but not enough for me to spend a crazy amount of money on.
My take away after this is that I’m going to find a copy of Oathsworn ASAP…thanks for the video and the definite arduous task of playing AT:O, so I don’t have to.
I cancelled my $1000 pledge, so I sent you a donation as a thank you from saving me from this Asylum of a game. Also: [ INTO THE UNKNOWN WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION]
It was a good review, I see some of his points... but as someone that played the game, what I can say about it is that in 24h I probably wont be thinking about this review, but I'll still be thinking about ATO, and it has been weeks since I completed just the cycle 1.
The review feels like he is hating on the game cause it does not adress "social issues" or whatever. It si a fantasy game that is fun to play, the rest is he hating on it cause he expected the game to be some kind of political bastion it is not.
@@DakonBlackblade2 are you high? I'm sorry but there were so many other critisisms that if this is all you saw I think you might be seeing and hearing what you want fellow
@@devinreviews192 The first half of the video is quite valid, albeit he does give way more emphasis on the negative, the positives he talks about in 2 minutes. The second half he basically ignores it is a review and make it personal tough. The story of this game is a good one, ye it lacks any deep political meaning, but why this was a reason for him to say you shouldn't even give this game a chance and play Oathsworn instead (btw the end portion of this video feals like an Oathsworn payed sponsorship deal lol) is because he wanted this game to be political and it wasn't and then he forgot to judge the tale on its own merits.
@@DakonBlackblade2 ITU messaged him and told him that the stories in the game "might be of particular interest to [him] as they don't shy away from politics and contemporary issues, taking a critical look at various topics, like discrimination, propaganda, nihilism or toxic masculinity" and that "[ITU] wishes to speak about these things through our games, as we are convinced that our medium is capable of becoming so much more than what it is right now" ITU was looking for free publicity and represented that the game was something that it is not. That's a valid criticism for him to make. And there's nothing wrong with preferring stories that aren't misogynistic or racist in nature. Though I should note, in the Oathsworn comparison system, I don't think he mentioned the message of the game at all - it was all focused on the game play experience.
Thanks for this deep dive! It feels very well explored and thought out. The mention of multiple elements of the game being so rare they weren't experienced gives me mixed feelings. While I appreciate and sometimes enjoy games like this with exciting one-in-a-million events or other elements, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about huge chunks of a game just never being experienced. It just feels a bit wasteful to me.
You backed me off a cliff. I backed the game, because something about it still appeals to me, but I backed WAY off add-ons and all ins. Seems like 3 campaigns is MORE than enough, and if I ever actually get through any of it, I can pick more up in the future.
Once again, thank you. If and when the s**tposts come in from the fanfolk, please read over all the encouraging responses as many times as you need to; there are plenty of people who love what you do and how you do it. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
NPI has definitely become my favorite channel which covers board games. I've never enjoyed watching a review for a game I would never buy more that this. Also, my kids and I just played your Frosthaven scenario and had a lot of fun with it. Another great example of the superior scenario design vs. gloomhaven. Thank you! 🦁👻🍨
@@NoPunIncluded I can't say much without spoiling it for others, but the map was cool and the objective was different (in a good way) and the backstory was memorable. And the Bowie reference in the title was much appreciated (I hope it was intentional). The only downside is that it's curtailed a no holds barred Frosthaven review from NPI, which is understandable from a conflict of interest point-of-view.
@@goldsmeeth2771 Small indie companies can also make video games. Given the size and scope of Aeon Trespass I imagine a whole bunch of people hot involved in it. Great video games have been made with smaller teams. My larger point is, to me it seems like all the game’s mechanics and exceptions and tables are exactly the kind of things you want in a videogame happening under the play experience. It’s fun because it doesn’t break the flow of the fun stuff. Looking at the review, it looks to me like this game is 85% admin and 15% “fun”.
Maybe because some people don't want to spend more hours staring into a screen after already spending several hours at work. Maybe because some people just find the haptic aspects joyful. Maybe because for some people physical components allow them more immersion. For me ATO is hands-down the best game I ever played. I did not think a game like this even possible. And yes, it gives me the feelings and experience of some of the best computer games I've played (in this case X-Com), but in my preferred media Board Games. So for some people (like me) this is a great plus and a Win.
Thank you very much for taking the time reviewing this beast of a game. From the moment I knew you will be reviewing this game I felt excitement rise. I think I will be getting the game from the reprint campaign. But I still highly value what you are doing here. And I want to be more specific. First of all, I like the way you formulate your criticisms (not only in this video) and I think that game creators willing to open-mindedly take them into consideration can make good use of it in a way that we, as players, can take advantage of. I had the impression in the video that you feel sorry about that. I think you should not and I appreciate that you tell us what you really feel about the game. This is why I am here for. But that's not all. It's a good point that you mention your Tainted Grail review. I got the game after you made this review of TG because, in a really similar way than ATO, I felt the game might be for me. Your criticism of TG made me change my expectations about the game and helped me select the variants to get the best experience out of the game for me and my wife. I think the journey I had through the game wouldn't have been as pleasant as it was without your take on the game. I'm still wondering whether I will go through ATO alone or with my wife. At this point, going with a full group sounds like it's not going to happen. But I know that I will have to put in place clever solutions to counter some of the negatives you have mentioned. And I know, by experience, that I will enjoy my journey even more thanks to you. I think ATO is a niche game. But that's a niche I am in. I am grateful to publishers like Into The Unknown willing to share their vision without watering it down to please a larger audience. I might be completely crazy but this is the experience I am looking for. I want to immerse in time, space, rules, theme, mechanics, story. I am not even a native english speaker and there are tons of reading. So yeah, crazy I said. Thank you again NPI for what you do ❤
@Krplun first, I played story mode and limited the experience to two players. Story mode really limits the grind. Two players to limit the downtime in combat or diplomacy. We also tried to stay grouped to be both involved in the fights / diplomacy. When I was doing the reading, my partner was taking notes. We also allowed ourselves to re-read some sections of already done exploration even though we were not at the right place. This prevented us from going back and forth in between regions, lightening menhirs and farming more resources. Finally, we adopted rules to increase XP cost of cards and skills to balance things a bit. This has caused a lot of escapes from fights in the end game, not sure I would recommend this. But fighting was not that mandatory for our survival. I played Arev and had the skill to enhance the food collection hability also which helps a lot. A few times we came close to dying but we managed to survive. The only remaining and painful issue was the travel connection in between cards that forces detours. But at some point in time in the game we found a solution to that problem and we abused it ;) overall I enjoyed my time with it, and I will do a second playthrough in a while... I think we have reached one of the "weaker" end due to our performance. I want to see the other paths we haven't explorered. We are now going through ISS Vanguard campaign and we haven't found any of those issues. It's a very solid experience without any tweak.
Great review. I absolutely love this game, as a solo experience. To me this is, as I said, an experience … rather than a game. It is, to me, what games dream of, when they go to sleep at night. It feels like a series of novels that I will never finish-which is exactly what I want, when I find something that I really love. This game is certainly NOT something I could imagine playing on “game night.” It’s more like an endless show to binge, wherein my choices, luck, and lack of luck, create a version that I will never duplicate in my lifetime. Even if I somehow finish and decide to play it again from the start.
You literally just saved me $1000+, so I went to your website and submitted a small donation of appreciation. Thanks for all the great coverage and content.
@No Pun Included same here. I don't usually agree with your opinions (still salty about the tmb buying guide/review) but, I really appreciated this video. Thanks for helping all of us make a more informed decision and giving what seems like the most genuine review out there for this game.
@Facena Meple I genuinely love that game and I mostly disagreed with their assessment of the base box specifically. In that they said it was useless lol. No hate tho
@@dapperdan4753 Honestly, I kinda low-key agree because everything else is better(caveat being Undertow is harder to learn rather than easier, but better). Like if you want to keep under a certain budget, the core is the last thing I can imagine suggesting! The core(and Riffle) is also the only part I own right now, and it's wonderful! Favorite single-night game!
I can't imagine how exhausting it was to do this video, but I gotta say, whenever y'all do a deep dive on something, you always do an incredible job with it.
It seems that you do it on purpose to be so tragic, I understand it from an entertainment point of view but the reality is different, I played this game on a 80cm x 120cm table and I was able to play it without too much difficulty, there is no need to use another table like you did and there is no need to fill the table with piles of cards. In solo it plays very well, at most in two people, also from how you initially described it you make the turns seem much more complicated than they actually are, the truth is that they run faster than many other similar games, Middara for example it's more complex to play it alone holding the four characters, this is a piece of cake in comparison. As for the rest of the video, which I've seen in its entirety, there's little to add, you don't like the setting, you don't like the story, that's fine, it's not a game for everyone, it's complex and requires dedication, even on the two suggestions at the end of the video I don't agree, Sleeping gods with its 10 characters to keep by force, the fights sometimes impossible by design and everything else is not even comparable to this game, moreover it takes more table than this one , Oathsworn gave me boredom, good story but too many recycling of both cards and Bosses, the combat system is too simple but nobody says this.
I too was wondering why he placed all the cards out side by side on the second table. Is that a market of some sort? Looks like that could just be a deck that you rifle through when necessary?
Tried it, didn’t like it. Feels like playing a very complicated yet boring rpg with an inexperienced gamemaster who loves his story and couldn’t give a crap about the players.
Great shoutout to Oathsworn. My group just completed chapter 12. Best group coop game I've ever played. The story is engaging, swift, and impactful on the combat, which is unique every fight. Sessions last close to two hours each, and everything we do is memorable. I can't wait to get to the finale only to repeat the game with a new group of players.
Even though I don't play games like this, and am unlikely to, I love deep dives like this video because it gives me a thoroughly researched and well put together window into a world I would otherwise never see.
I don't SPECIFICALLY like that you delve in mega-gigantic-ultra-kickstarter-supreme-$500 games that I will never buy or or likely ever get a chance to play. However I do like that you do them, and more importantly I like HOW you do them. I love your depth, the things you talk about, your desire to put more of your opinions in the video instead of trying to be "unbiased or impartial". I love your passion and willingness to dive deeper into something than I could ever fathom. So, do I want to see another review on yet another campaign game? No not really. But I trust that maybe you know that. And if you DID decide to make another video about one, woooo boy I bet there will be a good reason for it.
@@mortaneus Yeah - RPGs kile BGs have have now a wide selection form one page rules and set up - to behemoths - some of those get a character in 5 minutes and start laying can be just as rich tapestry - even when I played DND early 80s - ignored lots fiddly rules - and let GM/DM rule common sense-- for say encumbrance , use of certain weapons in confined spaces , material part of spells (just assume you have it - for stock and std spells but resurrection /wish )
@@japanczyk RPGs have a WIDE variety of complexities. Look up Phoenix Command RPG for an example that will put hex-and-counter wargames to shame, and Risus for an RPG simpler than many party games. DnD is fairly middle-of-the-road in the RPG landscape, leaning slightly heavy.
@@japanczyk In DnD, 1 table is enough for the game and 6 players can be around it no problem. Also DnD offer a very large amounts of monsters to fight , not just 2 per campaign. The decision making is also far superior as your imagination and your dm is the only limitation you have.
Great overview and review. This by far is the most ambitious game I have ever owned. I am about to start cycle 3, and have to say the story is the best so far. Each ending of each cycle is very rewarding. App is a requirement, I play on a 3x4 table, have a simple flow to transition into the voyage flow. I will admit, as a solo player, I am using a few house rules to simplify the game. Looking forward to the future games from ITU. I also own Oathsworn and KDM, but for me ATO has the edge.
I feel the same. I adore this game. In fact I adore ITU so much now, I've all in backed every single one of their games. I'm selling my entire MtG collection, KDM and likely Oathsworn and a few others I have coming thus year. This is THE game for me. The story and immersion is amazing and that coupled with awesome character progression and sweet ass gear!? Ehrrrmagawd, I love it. For all the small brains who can't deal with this game. Sucks to be you. :😜
As someone who knows almost nothing about this game, I found it really interesting that you mention that there's an app available! I didn't make it more than 5 minutes into the video before thinking "This just really shows why some boardgames are just some much better when they have apps to do all the donkey work and let the player focus on the narrative and actually having fun!" I play a lot of solo games, mostly small games but sometimes larger ones too. I own the original Sentinels of the Multiverse, for example, which has far too much book-keeping to be fun without its Sidekick helper app. There's nothing wrong with complex mechanisms/rules but the problem comes when both designers and players mistake complex mechanisms/rules for what ends up being constant grind and/or book-keeping that gets in the way of the emerging narrative. And don't get me wrong, we must all enjoy a certain amount of the book-keeping, the tactile experience of handling cards, tokens, moving around cubes, meeples and minis otherwise we'd all just play video games instead but that tactile experience of book-keeping and management, in this specific genre of boardgame, as opposed to a eurogame (and to a certain extent, even in most eurogames that aren't, say Powergrid!), has to be balanced very carefully with give the game enough room to allow the carefully crafted theme and narrative to emerge in the hands of its players. I sense that using an app and adding house rules is allowing you to enjoy all the good parts that came across in Efka's review - the choatic combat and the fun he had exploring and crafting then going straight back into combat again, then exploring again, but eliminates so much of the drudgery and crunch and grind that I felt was a significant part of Efka's disappointment with the game?
I’m 5:30 into the video and this is reminding me so much of DnD encounter charts where things are “technically possible” but so outrageously unlikely to happen that I’m left to wonder what the point of them being around is.
It's the thrill of winning the lottery. The gears are really cool, but too many and you are overpowered so DnD hide behind luck tables. You get an unlock later in ATO so it's not necessary to grind for them
Thank You so much.. watching the video was like rolling that mythical 10 crit... I've cancelled and re-pledged over 20 times, thinking I'm missing out on something special. I want it all or nothing at all.. I'm a recreational player that loves minis, a good story, seamless mechanics and I take 2 to 3 turns a night as I tend to my kids running around the house. This might not be the game for me. I still want it.. but I think I have to pass. GGGrrrrr I may regret it.. but with so much content, I'm hoping more reviews come out like yours about the 12 sins campaigns as well. Is it supposed to be more seamless or just a host of different complicated rules!! and no clear info about the 3 other seasons but pledge 400 extra .. hhmm. I am just in hypnosis because of it's gargantuan scope and amazing morbid looking miniatures.. I hope to shake the Fear of Missing out soon... Even though I'm still waiting on 10 other games to arrive!!
Matt, I own the game and played C1 so far. Right now it's boxed bc I wanted to give space to other titles of my collection. That said, you mentioned being recreational, and 2-3 turns a night. I think this might not be a good match. The entire ATO+SoH all-in is the equivalent to 9 games. 1 cycle is ~80h. 1 season ~150h. I played my cycle 1 in sessions of 4-8h whenever I could squeeze in. It's a massive time commitment to a casual player. In the flip side, I have this pull to get back to C2 looming my thoughts every day for weeks, if you like it, you love it. Therefore, if you do end up FOMOing hard, I'd suggest only 1 box bc that will give you months of content for the cheapest you can get, and if you do love it, you for sure will find soneone that did not even opened in the 2nd market.
@@mattwilbat7570 the add-on? I would rate it 15/100. Do you like changing the minis midfight? I got it myself under the reason of the time that I was supporting ITU during shipping crisis, but... during C1 I never really transformed. Now, I got the Eidolon forms bc I love what the product gave me. Efka seem to have played only C1 tho. Already while preparing C2, you get 2 cards added to certain decks that raise godform chances.
this game sounds like a video game turned into a board game, except you have to do all the work the AI normally does in the background so you can play the game.
Really great review with some great critiques, especially the part about the surprise battles. And yet, I love the game, and I am really looking forward to the future cycles and Twelve Sins of Herakles.
43:00 I actually enjoyed the pursuing megaboss in Tainted Grail. It took some clever movements but we mostly evaded it, so we almost never had to fight it. And when we did fight It, we either won quickly or ran away. It was 5 minute fights. Not 2 hour fights.
I have always admired the way you delivered your thoughts. Longer video you made, but so engaging and entertaining that I did not feel like it was an hour. Hat off.
Even tho i don't exactly share your view of the game, i actualy realy liked this video. A lot of good points. The only thing i would disagree with is the fact that Oathsworn/sleeping gods are simply better games. Sure, cleaner and more streamlined designs, but ATO has some realy grandiouse ambitions that it executes on. If you like that, a game like oathsworn is much "worse" then ATO. If you don't Oathsworn is a much better game.
It's probably more nuanced than that. The discussion about locations and other factors come into play as well, though you're correct that "better" is subjective.
I'm with you there, Oathsworn was my Game of the Year 2022. As I only received ATO in Dec 2022 it didn't even compete, but now it sits comfy at GotY23 with clearly no competition. Both great games. I appreciate the epicness of ATO a lot, and the non linear ways the story gets revealed.
This is as always a very well produced video, entertaining, and clever. One thing I have major gripes with. First, your conjecture about the nymphs. I don't like how some of them are depicted either (for moral reasons). BUT the narrative you form from there is an accusation as wild as it is heavy - and requires quite some justification. This "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality is in itself morally objectionable. Inclusivity is a high moral value. But so is procedural justice - and the latter got stomped in this video.
So you explore abstract world tiles with nothing unique to discover and just RNG what is there? You get pulled into multi hour battles to just reset a dial? What is the point of all this?
Thats true in the beginning, but not later on. Maybe reviewer didn't get that far Part of reason people play these general is for the battles. If you don't like battles, there are people play story mode and just skip battles altogether
My first reaction was "Hell yeah, over an hour video from NPI" and my last reaction was "Goddamn, it's 2 AM already." Awesome video, joy to watch. I feel compelled to try to figure out what these factions do that you can't say on RUclips.
I can only imagine that it has to do with grape being ingrained into their society (because typical violent themes wouldn't be enough to make a remark about it)
As someone who has only relatively recently (within the past 3 years) gotten into the modern boardgames scene, but who is a long time video game player: I am really disappointed and honestly a bit bewildered by these kind of board games that seem to chase the idea of being videogames. It feels to me like such a failure to design for the medium you are working with and I really don't get why you would want to chase the stagnant trends, fans, and status of mainstream "hardcore" gaming.
I feel the same, but i'm in the hobby for like 15 years. I don't like this direction for board games and i absolutely loathe the state of mainstream videogames. But a lot of people seem to like it and it prints big moneys...
Thank you, I have been thinking this so often. This could be a nice videogame. The rules are auto enforced, no setup, no book keeping etc. I have the feeling this kind of games are made by people who are lazy to learn to code
I'd further argue that making a giant massive huge story driven combat game with ever system you can think of is easy. Make an hour long game with easy rules, straight forward mechanics, and minimal components, that's still replayable and compelling is way harder.
This is the type of game- much like KDM, and even Warhammer 40k- Where I read about it or hear rules explanations and I'm totally riveted, it sounds amazing and fun and I want to play it all the way through. And then the actual game ends up so dry and slow that I lose all interest very quickly.
Oh thank gosh I made it through the intro! Much better now. 😁The Intro's intentional firehose-pacing was a struggle...which became positively demoralizing when the second table was pulled in. 🤦♂
I mean ultimately, it's not that complicated of a game. It's just the UPKEEP that is too much. It's too much manual work. It should have been a strategy rpg videogame where the upkeep is done for you. The actual game and mechanics are really fun.
As a fan of the game (love a lot of parts of it)... I also like this review. Really well done, Efka. I personally prefer Aeons Trespass over Sleeping Gods (though I also like that) - but you are very right in your criticisms of some of the map and the nymphs especially. It's hard to square. My personal take on c2 was more positive than yours, but I really liked the mechanical interaction of humanity versus failure. Good work! Criticism is good.
Honestly my only real major disagreement with this review is the oathsworn recommendation. Its treatment of witches was ...lets say I prefer nymphs and I dislike the nymphs. :/
I agree with pretty much all the points, but the way you were talking about the ambush, did you miss that it is a one time event? It sounds like it happened a lot to you which would be extremely annoying
I played C1 a while ago, but I think there're more ambushes. Maybe 1 more. Anyway... I guess the important msg is once the card is flipped it goes out of the exploration deck "forever".
Still playing through the "tutorial" of this game. Kingdom Death Monster is my favorite game ever, so I figured I might as well try the copy cat everyone loves. So far it's interesting, I like the changed/additions they made to the combat. Looking forward to playing more
@@adam551982 KDM is better. If you want we can have an essay battle over this. I come equipped with hundreds of hours of play in both so steel yourself
Probably this comment will be go unnoticed in the flood. Anyway. First of all i want to start from the spoiler, without going to spoiler it 😅 What you are saying is partially true. There is another, more important, actor in the ending and i found that looking through his pow is better explaining the cycle 1 mood. I played cycle 1 with another guy and we never used 2 table. We just covered the map tile with the battle map. Easy fix to a big problem. I’m currently playing cycle 2 solo and i used a different approach. I just put on the table the newly explored tile. You don’t really need to look at all the map everytime. As for the adventure hub we choosed for a simple solution. Once you start an hub, you complete it before rolling for a new one. Better streamlined experience. I know most ppl doesn’t like technology on the table but the official app and the unofficial one (scribe) helps alot at keeping the table hog under control. This enanched my experience alot. However i found that your review nailed down every problems the game has.
Comment for the algorithm. Also, great review. Good clear descriptions. I love how you reviewed the world building as well as the geberal gameplay. Seems like such a disorganized mess
Dude, you are amazing! Honestly, a lot of ppl won’t be happy with your take, but, thank you for not just being honest, but putting in the time and work to arrive at a place where you feel confident in your honest appraisal. I agree about oathsworn, and I actually bought a cheap and used sleeping gods a little while ago to play on my own. I’m always impressed with every video you do. Thank you!
@@TeChNoWC7 While ATO feels like maybe "too much" to me, I actually didn't get the hype about Sleeping Gods either. It was... fine I guess. I think a lot of those alternate recommendations kind of miss what a lot of people are interested in something like ATO for anyway. It's not just exploration it's WHAT you're exploring. Mysterious pulp adventure island or somewhat dark but still mostly standard fantasy setting are fine and all... I even like those kind of things, but they aren't weirdo hyperkinetic Lovecraftian TechnoGreek that ATO is, I mean THAT'S the draw, is there an alternative specifically for that?
@@ironwolf56 the main draw for me for ATO and Oathsworn is that they are boss battlers - so story based campaign games in general aren’t going to be a replacement for me.
I have been trying to decide if I should get this game. I still don't know (which means I probably shouldn't), but this review is hilarious. Subscribed!
People should also check out the recent review of this game by The King of Average, who calls it his favorite game. He also discusses the app which seems to address several of Efka’s criticisms (like not being able to remember story beats and choices-the app lets you add note reminders). This game obviously won’t be for everyone, but it’s notable that lots of people do love it and find it a masterpiece. Even in this comment section, almost everyone who has played it has liked it. I’m looking forward to trying it. It looks epic. I like games like Tainted Grail, Solomon Kane, etc, and I’ll be playing solo or occasionally with my wife with a large dining table I can keep this on.
It is a masterpiece. But the reviewer isnt wrong about heaviness, setup/tears, and player elimination. 2 players with large table is ideal. You may enjoy more than us who has less than ideal setup
I agree with every one of your criticisms and comments. I played solo, ( won cycle number I, and I think I did not like the game as well as you do. I tried to be respectful of it. I think it can be a great game for those who like it, but with all those blemishes, I could not like it. I'd like to add one more criticism that I think you are aware of but did not mention: There's an advantage in NOT playing solo. If you forget a rule, the other players might remember it and point it out. When 3 or 4 people play THIS game, I envision many arguments about possibly-forgotten nonrules and misrules, resolved by all but one player tapping their feet in annoyance while the other player hunts through the ONE copy of the rulebook. -toby
Couldn't agree more with your final comments and thoughts on the Kickstarter reprint campaign. It is a total mess like you said and so extortionately expensive with add on after add on. Even the All Ins don't include everything and then there is shipping for a pallet of a game (I'm slightly exaggerating here). Then there are the 'interesting' marketing techniques: early bird bonus' on 'limited' pledges that turn out not to be limited because they just add another at the same price and then the early bird disappears if you go All In later; stretch goals that when reached unlock a paid for addon which then becomes free if another stretch goal is reached wt?; two linked but really separate campaigns that have 'applicable' stretch goals attached to them so when a new goal is reached you have to work out if it is applicable to whatever you have pledged for; twenty or so addons you can purchase on top of the core pledges... I could go on but is this game really interesting enough to tie my poor simple brain in knots over and empty my bank account for something I may get in 2 years? I had kind of made the decision already but your video has confirmed mine to give this a miss. Cheers
Here is my solution for only using one table :) ruclips.net/video/nIGZwwzE0hM/видео.html Also for the concern about using dedicated gear for knockdown. Please note there is an argo ability for standing up which means you don't need dedicated gear on individual titans.
It's an amazing situation. All of your points are valid and I agree to a certain point. Nevertheless I have so much fun with the game - it's one of my all-time favourites. It's astonishing that a game with so many flaws can be near perfect in the end (for me).
The reason is, it’s easy to pick one part or mechanic of a game and say „but it’s done better elsewhere“. It’s so hard trying to „review“ this, that it’s all about talking about isolated stuff and experiences, instead of weaving them together and give a bigger picture. Imo games are like art, and sure one stroke could have been done better, but what counts is the overall experience it leads to So I get when people talk about the stuff they don’t like but most of them are symptoms, not the „reasons“. Because: there’s a reason the game is so big, it tries to achieve something that way… so you can complain about that, or see it as a strength. But that’s common with complex things…do you understand why it’s that way and appreciate that, or do you focus on the little things it does not good. And I t’s way easier to do the last one (without bad intent)
As always it is very impressive how much thought and skill you put into your review videos! Learned a lot about AT:O in this one and will rewatch your review of Oathsworn now :-)
Great review. By about 32 seconds in you'd shown me why this game isn't for me. All that junk on the table, all that set up, clean up, rules rules rules.
Wow, 2 minutes in and I am both repelled and intrigued... phobia and philia at the same time. Sounds like a great system... if they make a PC port. I'm honestly spoiled by Gloomhaven, Terraforming Mars and Scythe digital and BGA now.
And rightly so, some games should never be board games in a physical form, only digital ... because tediousness to remember all the complex rules and then set it up on two huge tables is just ridiculous ... as if that was not enough, storing it afterward is a nightmare if you can't leave it all set till the next session due for lacking the space ... for all the reasons above I am not backing it ... don't even start me on the price for all in
After days of rules prep and teaching my husband, we set down to play. I couldn't get past the first fight, immediately sold everything to my friend who will probably love it. I think this will be heaven for some people, but for me it was not even okay. I backed it for the map exploration 1/2 which is sad because by the time I finished that fight, I knew that no matter how awesome that other 1/2 may be, it could never make up for the fight scenes. I curled back into Frosthaven wondering why I even considered dating someone else.
I love soloing 7th Continent and I await 7th Citadel with excitement. I think the price and size of AT:O is way too high for me to keep it in the name of a maybe-good story; and I don't even know if it will be good as I didn't get very far. This review did clarify for me that I also would not have liked the map exploration 1/2 as it lacks the cohesive world building and connectivity I seek. Tainted Grail sits in my shelf of future enjoyment lol, I also backed it because of the map exploration. For crunchy combat, we continue to enjoy Frosthaven and Oathsworn.
Awesome review. I’m one of those weird players that care more about the theme/art style/world than the mechanics. Sleeping gods, TMB, oathsworn, gloomhaven all have fun mechanics but I just cannot get excited to dive back in. I’m curious and enjoy playing with friends but not itching to play those games.
I've got to chime in here and say that I'm halfway through Cycle 2, have logged 41 Primordial battles (had to restart cycles a few times), and I have never once performed an Out of Reach Evade. I never felt the need to. Plus, it's not even a viable tactic for many Primordials because they don't always just target the Titan in front. I would say that, with few exceptions, setting up an OOR Evade is more trouble than it's worth and has the potential to massively backfire.
There's more than one solutions to a fight. OOR is often coupled with flamemoth or that taunt helmet that turns you into the target. Though it's balanced because it uses a lot of fate. And I dont think reviewers OOR works on every battle
UPDATE: We’d like to clarify the section of the video between 49:54 and 50:47. Spoilers for the first campaign of the game follow.
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After the publication of the video the publisher got in touch with us and informed us that the plot twist we elaborate on is subverted elsewhere in the plot. Despite extensive playthrough, we did not encounter this subversion.
After we received this communication, we explored the campaign book further and discovered that such a subversion does exist and it undermines the tropes established by the original plot twist, however it is locked away behind specific criteria that are highly dependent on chance.
The publisher did insist that this subversion is alluded to in all critical parts of the story but did not inform us on where else it can be discovered by the majority of players in a single playthrough.
Yeah, how about "we were wrong and apologize for the back-handed comments?". What's with people nowadays and refusing apologize?
@@TheLettucefolk You must be new here. Efka is all about back-handed comments.
They gave you, in a pinned comment, a clarification that they missed a story element that is in the campaign book. They were not "wrong" about it. It just never came up when they were playing, which is a perfectly valid gripe.
@@TheLettucefolk I bet you’re a lot of fun 😂
@@TheLettucefolkBut they weren't wrong because they couldn't have possibly known that from their own gameplay. They can't review the game as the creators of the game, they can only do it as players and if, as players, something is easy to miss and you missed it, how would you even talked about it?
If I remember correctly the last 3 story arcs gave different answers/plot twists when you finnished them. And I would estimate that on average you finnish 2 out of the 3 so finding the subversion is more likely than not. It was cool that having finnished all 3 of the last story arcs gave you a chance of defeating the final boss in a rather different way.
This looks like the a game I would have designed if I was left in solitary confinement for 10 years
Ha ha! Class.
This seems like it would work better on a computer, so you didn't have to do the setup or remember all the rules. Mind you, that's my reaction to a lot of complicated board games.
So true. There's a certain complexity level where the reason (for me) for tabletop games (having a shared experience, in-person with friends) is out-focussed by the attention needed to operate the mechanics of the game 😕
As someone who has played over 100 hours of ATO as a 2-player game, I wanted to put forward my thoughts on the game and the points made in the video (loosely in the order of the video):
- I 100% agree that the game is incredibly complex, there are many, many rules and that could difinitely turn many people away.
- The game takes up a huge amount of table space and has hundreds of hours of content. If you can commit to that, the gameplay is incredibly rewarding, but it isn't for everyone.
- I definitely agree that this game is too much for 4 players. 1-2 players is best.
- I partially disagree with the video's statement of randomness in battles, especially the comparison to Flux. Yes, there are extreme moments of good or bad luck, but there are many ways to mitigate that variance, allowing you to reroll dice or even retry battles. Additionally, losing a battle is not the end of the game, you can still get resources and mitigate your losses; the focus is on managing your resources to win the campaign. Bad luck in one battle is just a setback.
- I've had a very different experience with Out-of-range evades. Very rarely is it worthwhile to just run away from the primordial and burn turns. You need to attack to build rage. Its often much better to manipulate who is going to be attacked than to avoid the attack entirely.
- I strongly disagree with the video's point that fighting the same primordial becomes monotonous. As the primordials level up they get new abilities that recontextualize their fight which, combined with your constantly updating gear and loadouts, keeps fights fresh an engaging. You do need to craft more specialized gear as the primordial gets stronger, but I've never felt that it makes loadouts stagnant.
- Ambushes happen a couple times each cycle. I'm surprised the video brings them up. Maybe they were not removing the cards from the deck?
- The Adversaries (that chace you down) are definitely not invincible bosses, so I never really felt the issues with that. I do agree, however, that adversary battles can sometime become monotonous when they occur too often.
- I definitely agree that the adventure tables dont work well for multiple reasons. They arent game breaking, but could definitely be improved.
- I got very different theming out of the game. (Slight spoilers in this section) I agree that portrayal of the nymphs is exploitative, but outside of that I didnt really see the focus on the exploitation of women, especially in cycle 1. This is largely up to your own interpretation, but I found that the issues in cycle 1 were mostly caused by multiple Men's grief, not a Woman's. You do have to piece together these relevations, so they could easily be missed. Personally I enjoyed the way that each faction was morally gray, having both sympathetic and adversarial consituents, with a huge amout of lore to piece together what actually happened between these factions.
- I agree that the grid to track decisions is very hard to remember and the alternatives mentioned in the video would be a definite improvement.
Thanks for reading if you got this far. I overall agree with the video that the game is too complex for many and requires a huge time investment. I also agree that there are multiple systems that show the inexperience of the developers. However, I think the video is too harsh on the story and combat, both of which my play group has found consistently engaging and is what has kept us playing every weekend. There is a reason that the game is so highly rated on BGG.
Good responses, I'm between C1 & C2 and had similar thoughts.
The difference is that I like the system of the adventures. I think it gives a realism to the fact that in life we don't know what we are getting into. It makes fate less predictable, future more chaotic, information less complete and that are all things that I personally enjoy in ATO. It is randomized but at least it isn't linear/semi-linear, and that feels like to me like a valid design choice which pays onto the uniqueness of this game in my collection.
I only wished I could remember more of the adventures, which is hard in this scope. Often times, I read a story in the middle of an adventure and I lost context as a lot of time had passed since reading the last entry.
It's rated highly on BGG because it's a niche game which caters to a very specific group of people who all like it for the reasons it exists. Any super limited release like this tends to have overwhelmingly positive reviews because the people who like it are the ones who purchased it in the first place. This is just one of the many biases the BGG rating system has, it just happens to be magnified for games like this.
@@PRC533 wouldn't you agree that in this argument we should see a lot more games with rates over 9 for a significant #voters? (I'd say 1000 votes is a good number to rule out collusion).
My point being that lots of crowdfunded games are niche and limited, and yet ATO has the highest rating of them all. Maybe it isn't a good measure to compare the rating of ATO against retail available games (e.g. Wingspan), but bias or not it has meaning.
@@PRC533 Certainly, niche appeal and a limited release will effect a rating, hence why the "Geek Rating" probably uses a Bayesian average or something similar. However, that doesn't allow you to entirely discount a high score. There are many niche games that don't have good ratings.
I am in the camp that ATO is an amazing game. Ive played through cycle 1 multiple times. I agree with basically everything you wrote. I wish the choice matrix in the app would remind you what story decisions you made.
As for the adventure tables ive been thinking that I would roll the die to figure out which stories I would start and then just play those out and not reroll until I finished one. As designed its a little too fractured for my liking.
Best video that was able to explain why someone wouldn't like this game. I have backed the smallest portion of the system - Sins Summer to find out for myself in the least overwhealming way possible. My guess is that by the end of that I'll feel like I'll have seen and enjoyed enough, but would rather have more focused narrative experiences - or ones with just emergent shorter ones.
Good call. I think it will be a good “introduction” to the game, if we can use that word for something that’s still bigger than most campaign games. I love cycles 1-3 but I still have 4-5 and Kingdoms Forlorn coming so even I couldn’t convince myself I needed all 4 seasons here.
I should have done what you did. Instead, now I'm worried about receiving a $1000 paper weight 😅 Welp, hopefully the resale value is there if it isn't my cup of tea
Why are there all these games these days that seem like a really shit D&D session run by the worst kind of DM?
You could probably homebrew a decent version on any of these campaign games with like any fantasy TTRPG system.
Because no DM is required
Definitely useful and entertaining! This isn't even a game I'd ever be interested in playing. Thank you
Watching this review makes me want to get Sleeping Gods back off the shelf, and then to play Oathsworn when it arrives. AT:O looks way better than KDM, but not enough for me to spend a crazy amount of money on.
Great video! Always entertaining and informative reviews on your channel. Thanks for posting it!
I think I'll just join Collin in watching Fraiser again
My take away after this is that I’m going to find a copy of Oathsworn ASAP…thanks for the video and the definite arduous task of playing AT:O, so I don’t have to.
I cancelled my $1000 pledge, so I sent you a donation as a thank you from saving me from this Asylum of a game.
Also:
[ INTO THE UNKNOWN WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION]
The review was more entertaining to me than I think the game would be.
It was a good review, I see some of his points... but as someone that played the game, what I can say about it is that in 24h I probably wont be thinking about this review, but I'll still be thinking about ATO, and it has been weeks since I completed just the cycle 1.
The review feels like he is hating on the game cause it does not adress "social issues" or whatever. It si a fantasy game that is fun to play, the rest is he hating on it cause he expected the game to be some kind of political bastion it is not.
@@DakonBlackblade2 are you high?
I'm sorry but there were so many other critisisms that if this is all you saw I think you might be seeing and hearing what you want fellow
@@devinreviews192 The first half of the video is quite valid, albeit he does give way more emphasis on the negative, the positives he talks about in 2 minutes. The second half he basically ignores it is a review and make it personal tough. The story of this game is a good one, ye it lacks any deep political meaning, but why this was a reason for him to say you shouldn't even give this game a chance and play Oathsworn instead (btw the end portion of this video feals like an Oathsworn payed sponsorship deal lol) is because he wanted this game to be political and it wasn't and then he forgot to judge the tale on its own merits.
@@DakonBlackblade2 ITU messaged him and told him that the stories in the game "might be of particular interest to [him] as they don't shy away from politics and contemporary issues, taking a critical look at various topics, like discrimination, propaganda, nihilism or toxic masculinity" and that "[ITU] wishes to speak about these things through our games, as we are convinced that our medium is capable of becoming so much more than what it is right now" ITU was looking for free publicity and represented that the game was something that it is not. That's a valid criticism for him to make. And there's nothing wrong with preferring stories that aren't misogynistic or racist in nature. Though I should note, in the Oathsworn comparison system, I don't think he mentioned the message of the game at all - it was all focused on the game play experience.
Man... the close at 13:39 "in the other hand" is an edition masterpiece! lol
Yup, the level of complication was enough for me. That plus the size is a no go. I wouldn't even think of buying this monster. Not for a second.
Looks like i would enjoy it solo if i had enough money and space to play it
Thanks for this deep dive! It feels very well explored and thought out.
The mention of multiple elements of the game being so rare they weren't experienced gives me mixed feelings. While I appreciate and sometimes enjoy games like this with exciting one-in-a-million events or other elements, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about huge chunks of a game just never being experienced. It just feels a bit wasteful to me.
You backed me off a cliff. I backed the game, because something about it still appeals to me, but I backed WAY off add-ons and all ins. Seems like 3 campaigns is MORE than enough, and if I ever actually get through any of it, I can pick more up in the future.
Once again, thank you. If and when the s**tposts come in from the fanfolk, please read over all the encouraging responses as many times as you need to; there are plenty of people who love what you do and how you do it. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Nailed it for me, this game was unplayable and should have been a PC game
Biggest reason I didn't back this game is because I live in an apartment and this game is physically larger than my car! (only slightly exaggerating)
NPI has definitely become my favorite channel which covers board games. I've never enjoyed watching a review for a game I would never buy more that this.
Also, my kids and I just played your Frosthaven scenario and had a lot of fun with it. Another great example of the superior scenario design vs. gloomhaven. Thank you! 🦁👻🍨
you are literally the first person to report to us on the scenario. glad you enjoyed it. it's a bit out there, but we wanted it to be a bit irregular.
@@NoPunIncluded I can't say much without spoiling it for others, but the map was cool and the objective was different (in a good way) and the backstory was memorable. And the Bowie reference in the title was much appreciated (I hope it was intentional).
The only downside is that it's curtailed a no holds barred Frosthaven review from NPI, which is understandable from a conflict of interest point-of-view.
Been a while since I played it, but this feels like kingdom death monster.
This is exactly the kind of game that makes me ask: Why wasn’t this a video game instead?”
Small indie company. Possibly if the company continue its success may have video game port. Though I don't think it would win over elden ring
@@goldsmeeth2771 Small indie companies can also make video games. Given the size and scope of Aeon Trespass I imagine a whole bunch of people hot involved in it. Great video games have been made with smaller teams.
My larger point is, to me it seems like all the game’s mechanics and exceptions and tables are exactly the kind of things you want in a videogame happening under the play experience. It’s fun because it doesn’t break the flow of the fun stuff. Looking at the review, it looks to me like this game is 85% admin and 15% “fun”.
@@IlChatNoir17 i played the game and its more like 85% fun, 15% admin
Maybe because some people don't want to spend more hours staring into a screen after already spending several hours at work. Maybe because some people just find the haptic aspects joyful. Maybe because for some people physical components allow them more immersion.
For me ATO is hands-down the best game I ever played. I did not think a game like this even possible. And yes, it gives me the feelings and experience of some of the best computer games I've played (in this case X-Com), but in my preferred media Board Games. So for some people (like me) this is a great plus and a Win.
Videogame development is great but also a totally different type of beast to get into.
Thank you very much for taking the time reviewing this beast of a game.
From the moment I knew you will be reviewing this game I felt excitement rise.
I think I will be getting the game from the reprint campaign. But I still highly value what you are doing here. And I want to be more specific.
First of all, I like the way you formulate your criticisms (not only in this video) and I think that game creators willing to open-mindedly take them into consideration can make good use of it in a way that we, as players, can take advantage of. I had the impression in the video that you feel sorry about that. I think you should not and I appreciate that you tell us what you really feel about the game. This is why I am here for.
But that's not all. It's a good point that you mention your Tainted Grail review. I got the game after you made this review of TG because, in a really similar way than ATO, I felt the game might be for me.
Your criticism of TG made me change my expectations about the game and helped me select the variants to get the best experience out of the game for me and my wife. I think the journey I had through the game wouldn't have been as pleasant as it was without your take on the game.
I'm still wondering whether I will go through ATO alone or with my wife. At this point, going with a full group sounds like it's not going to happen. But I know that I will have to put in place clever solutions to counter some of the negatives you have mentioned. And I know, by experience, that I will enjoy my journey even more thanks to you.
I think ATO is a niche game. But that's a niche I am in. I am grateful to publishers like Into The Unknown willing to share their vision without watering it down to please a larger audience. I might be completely crazy but this is the experience I am looking for.
I want to immerse in time, space, rules, theme, mechanics, story. I am not even a native english speaker and there are tons of reading. So yeah, crazy I said.
Thank you again NPI for what you do ❤
what did you do to get TG to be more for you?
@Krplun first, I played story mode and limited the experience to two players. Story mode really limits the grind. Two players to limit the downtime in combat or diplomacy. We also tried to stay grouped to be both involved in the fights / diplomacy. When I was doing the reading, my partner was taking notes. We also allowed ourselves to re-read some sections of already done exploration even though we were not at the right place. This prevented us from going back and forth in between regions, lightening menhirs and farming more resources. Finally, we adopted rules to increase XP cost of cards and skills to balance things a bit. This has caused a lot of escapes from fights in the end game, not sure I would recommend this. But fighting was not that mandatory for our survival. I played Arev and had the skill to enhance the food collection hability also which helps a lot. A few times we came close to dying but we managed to survive. The only remaining and painful issue was the travel connection in between cards that forces detours. But at some point in time in the game we found a solution to that problem and we abused it ;) overall I enjoyed my time with it, and I will do a second playthrough in a while... I think we have reached one of the "weaker" end due to our performance. I want to see the other paths we haven't explorered. We are now going through ISS Vanguard campaign and we haven't found any of those issues. It's a very solid experience without any tweak.
Great review. I absolutely love this game, as a solo experience.
To me this is, as I said, an experience … rather than a game. It is, to me, what games dream of, when they go to sleep at night.
It feels like a series of novels that I will never finish-which is exactly what I want, when I find something that I really love.
This game is certainly NOT something I could imagine playing on “game night.” It’s more like an endless show to binge, wherein my choices, luck, and lack of luck, create a version that I will never duplicate in my lifetime. Even if I somehow finish and decide to play it again from the start.
You literally just saved me $1000+, so I went to your website and submitted a small donation of appreciation. Thanks for all the great coverage and content.
glad we helped you make up your mind
@No Pun Included same here. I don't usually agree with your opinions (still salty about the tmb buying guide/review) but, I really appreciated this video.
Thanks for helping all of us make a more informed decision and giving what seems like the most genuine review out there for this game.
@@dapperdan4753 What was bad in the TMB review?
@Facena Meple I genuinely love that game and I mostly disagreed with their assessment of the base box specifically. In that they said it was useless lol. No hate tho
@@dapperdan4753 Honestly, I kinda low-key agree because everything else is better(caveat being Undertow is harder to learn rather than easier, but better). Like if you want to keep under a certain budget, the core is the last thing I can imagine suggesting! The core(and Riffle) is also the only part I own right now, and it's wonderful! Favorite single-night game!
Gloomhaven Fluxx is the greatest descriptor of a board game I've heard in some time. There's a LOT in those 2 little words
I can't imagine how exhausting it was to do this video, but I gotta say, whenever y'all do a deep dive on something, you always do an incredible job with it.
It seems that you do it on purpose to be so tragic, I understand it from an entertainment point of view but the reality is different, I played this game on a 80cm x 120cm table and I was able to play it without too much difficulty, there is no need to use another table like you did and there is no need to fill the table with piles of cards. In solo it plays very well, at most in two people, also from how you initially described it you make the turns seem much more complicated than they actually are, the truth is that they run faster than many other similar games, Middara for example it's more complex to play it alone holding the four characters, this is a piece of cake in comparison. As for the rest of the video, which I've seen in its entirety, there's little to add, you don't like the setting, you don't like the story, that's fine, it's not a game for everyone, it's complex and requires dedication, even on the two suggestions at the end of the video I don't agree, Sleeping gods with its 10 characters to keep by force, the fights sometimes impossible by design and everything else is not even comparable to this game, moreover it takes more table than this one , Oathsworn gave me boredom, good story but too many recycling of both cards and Bosses, the combat system is too simple but nobody says this.
I too was wondering why he placed all the cards out side by side on the second table. Is that a market of some sort? Looks like that could just be a deck that you rifle through when necessary?
@@ModularLanding in ATO there is no need to do that... usually i leave all cards in the game box, i take only the necessary out of the box
Tried it, didn’t like it. Feels like playing a very complicated yet boring rpg with an inexperienced gamemaster who loves his story and couldn’t give a crap about the players.
I heard about this due to the quack situation, but after this video I think I want something less complicated, like Cones of Dunshire.
LMAO!!!!! Great reference
This review helped me make the decision to buy Kingdom Death: Monster instead.
I know right? All the mechanics described just makes this game seem like KDM but slightly more obnoxious
Great shoutout to Oathsworn. My group just completed chapter 12. Best group coop game I've ever played. The story is engaging, swift, and impactful on the combat, which is unique every fight. Sessions last close to two hours each, and everything we do is memorable. I can't wait to get to the finale only to repeat the game with a new group of players.
Even though I don't play games like this, and am unlikely to, I love deep dives like this video because it gives me a thoroughly researched and well put together window into a world I would otherwise never see.
I don't SPECIFICALLY like that you delve in mega-gigantic-ultra-kickstarter-supreme-$500 games that I will never buy or or likely ever get a chance to play. However I do like that you do them, and more importantly I like HOW you do them. I love your depth, the things you talk about, your desire to put more of your opinions in the video instead of trying to be "unbiased or impartial". I love your passion and willingness to dive deeper into something than I could ever fathom.
So, do I want to see another review on yet another campaign game? No not really. But I trust that maybe you know that. And if you DID decide to make another video about one, woooo boy I bet there will be a good reason for it.
When your D&D group decides "none of these ttrpgs are complicated enough and are too versatile"
Funny and true...though as far as complexity vs Tabletop RPGs go, ATO is merely mid-range.
@@mortaneus Yeah - RPGs kile BGs have have now a wide selection form one page rules and set up - to behemoths - some of those get a character in 5 minutes and start laying can be just as rich tapestry - even when I played DND early 80s - ignored lots fiddly rules - and let GM/DM rule common sense-- for say encumbrance , use of certain weapons in confined spaces , material part of spells (just assume you have it - for stock and std spells but resurrection /wish )
This is far easier and simpler than any TTRPG (especially D&D)
@@japanczyk RPGs have a WIDE variety of complexities. Look up Phoenix Command RPG for an example that will put hex-and-counter wargames to shame, and Risus for an RPG simpler than many party games. DnD is fairly middle-of-the-road in the RPG landscape, leaning slightly heavy.
@@japanczyk In DnD, 1 table is enough for the game and 6 players can be around it no problem. Also DnD offer a very large amounts of monsters to fight , not just 2 per campaign. The decision making is also far superior as your imagination and your dm is the only limitation you have.
I knew I was never going to want to play this in the first 4 minutes but still watched the whole thing. Great video!
And I was just going to leave an identical comment!
My GF said when I bought a big board game "why do you use hard earned money to punish youselve?". 😅
I am 6 minutes in, and all I'm hearing is "KDM, but even more convoluted"
As a player of both, yes to a large degree. KDM + 7th continent.
I am now 17 minutes in, and I'm getting more and more concerned.
19 minutes, and OH DEAR GOD WHAT.
I mean, there's being "inspired by", and then there's outright lifting the tactics of the first two monsters XD XD
KDM is by far the superior game. And I play Advanced Squad Leader. You do not know complex. Which is fine.
wow sounds like a complete kingdom death rip off
Aye mate, I’ll just return to Oathsworn, Frosthaven and Mage Knight 😅.
Great overview and review. This by far is the most ambitious game I have ever owned. I am about to start cycle 3, and have to say the story is the best so far. Each ending of each cycle is very rewarding. App is a requirement, I play on a 3x4 table, have a simple flow to transition into the voyage flow. I will admit, as a solo player, I am using a few house rules to simplify the game. Looking forward to the future games from ITU. I also own Oathsworn and KDM, but for me ATO has the edge.
Same assessment as well
I feel the same. I adore this game. In fact I adore ITU so much now, I've all in backed every single one of their games. I'm selling my entire MtG collection, KDM and likely Oathsworn and a few others I have coming thus year. This is THE game for me. The story and immersion is amazing and that coupled with awesome character progression and sweet ass gear!? Ehrrrmagawd, I love it. For all the small brains who can't deal with this game. Sucks to be you. :😜
Yeah. After playing ATO I have (probably foolishly) backed KF and everything in the 12 sins campaign. It was just that good.
As someone who knows almost nothing about this game, I found it really interesting that you mention that there's an app available!
I didn't make it more than 5 minutes into the video before thinking "This just really shows why some boardgames are just some much better when they have apps to do all the donkey work and let the player focus on the narrative and actually having fun!"
I play a lot of solo games, mostly small games but sometimes larger ones too. I own the original Sentinels of the Multiverse, for example, which has far too much book-keeping to be fun without its Sidekick helper app.
There's nothing wrong with complex mechanisms/rules but the problem comes when both designers and players mistake complex mechanisms/rules for what ends up being constant grind and/or book-keeping that gets in the way of the emerging narrative.
And don't get me wrong, we must all enjoy a certain amount of the book-keeping, the tactile experience of handling cards, tokens, moving around cubes, meeples and minis otherwise we'd all just play video games instead but that tactile experience of book-keeping and management, in this specific genre of boardgame, as opposed to a eurogame (and to a certain extent, even in most eurogames that aren't, say Powergrid!), has to be balanced very carefully with give the game enough room to allow the carefully crafted theme and narrative to emerge in the hands of its players.
I sense that using an app and adding house rules is allowing you to enjoy all the good parts that came across in Efka's review - the choatic combat and the fun he had exploring and crafting then going straight back into combat again, then exploring again, but eliminates so much of the drudgery and crunch and grind that I felt was a significant part of Efka's disappointment with the game?
@@lotterwinner6474 I feel KF is going to be better suited for me, but i do love ATO. So looking forward to KF !
Thanks for this, I needed someone to snap me out of spending most of my money on a board game because I can't help but go all in.
Seriously, same. Almost went all in and had my hand on the trigger all night...
same. This helped a lot. I did not like voyage of the first game. So why waiting 3 years to get the new one before knowing if they fix it any better
Just play a TTRPG.
I’m 5:30 into the video and this is reminding me so much of DnD encounter charts where things are “technically possible” but so outrageously unlikely to happen that I’m left to wonder what the point of them being around is.
It's the thrill of winning the lottery. The gears are really cool, but too many and you are overpowered so DnD hide behind luck tables. You get an unlock later in ATO so it's not necessary to grind for them
I'm only 4 minutes in and my brain is unraveling. I'm so glad I'm watching this before I get high tonight- this might have broken my weed-addled brain
Thank You so much.. watching the video was like rolling that mythical 10 crit... I've cancelled and re-pledged over 20 times, thinking I'm missing out on something special. I want it all or nothing at all.. I'm a recreational player that loves minis, a good story, seamless mechanics and I take 2 to 3 turns a night as I tend to my kids running around the house. This might not be the game for me. I still want it.. but I think I have to pass. GGGrrrrr I may regret it.. but with so much content, I'm hoping more reviews come out like yours about the 12 sins campaigns as well. Is it supposed to be more seamless or just a host of different complicated rules!! and no clear info about the 3 other seasons but pledge 400 extra .. hhmm. I am just in hypnosis because of it's gargantuan scope and amazing morbid looking miniatures.. I hope to shake the Fear of Missing out soon... Even though I'm still waiting on 10 other games to arrive!!
Matt, I own the game and played C1 so far. Right now it's boxed bc I wanted to give space to other titles of my collection.
That said, you mentioned being recreational, and 2-3 turns a night. I think this might not be a good match. The entire ATO+SoH all-in is the equivalent to 9 games. 1 cycle is ~80h. 1 season ~150h. I played my cycle 1 in sessions of 4-8h whenever I could squeeze in. It's a massive time commitment to a casual player. In the flip side, I have this pull to get back to C2 looming my thoughts every day for weeks, if you like it, you love it.
Therefore, if you do end up FOMOing hard, I'd suggest only 1 box bc that will give you months of content for the cheapest you can get, and if you do love it, you for sure will find soneone that did not even opened in the 2nd market.
@@JohnHoliver do you think Godforms are useful at all?
@@mattwilbat7570 the add-on? I would rate it 15/100. Do you like changing the minis midfight? I got it myself under the reason of the time that I was supporting ITU during shipping crisis, but... during C1 I never really transformed. Now, I got the Eidolon forms bc I love what the product gave me.
Efka seem to have played only C1 tho. Already while preparing C2, you get 2 cards added to certain decks that raise godform chances.
It looks like a horrible economics equation that takes 15 pages of graphs.
Wait you're into tabletop games? Hobbies colliding moment 😂
Mark used to be a professor where I studied.
@@NoPunIncluded and we are friends too!!!
@@woltersworld slander
@@NoPunIncluded you cut me deep Evaldas... you cut me deep 😉
i know it was KDM like, but jeeesh its practically kdm
Even down to the Word Word: Word title.
I think i'd rather just get my ass kicked in Kingdom Death Monster instead of playing this
Also, much love to "Ghosteen" behind you. I've worked on a number of Nick Cave cover projects, and that album still devastates me.
this game sounds like a video game turned into a board game, except you have to do all the work the AI normally does in the background so you can play the game.
Really great review with some great critiques, especially the part about the surprise battles. And yet, I love the game, and I am really looking forward to the future cycles and Twelve Sins of Herakles.
43:00 I actually enjoyed the pursuing megaboss in Tainted Grail. It took some clever movements but we mostly evaded it, so we almost never had to fight it.
And when we did fight It, we either won quickly or ran away.
It was 5 minute fights. Not 2 hour fights.
I KNOW I'll never play this, but I do appreciate the extraordinary effort required for this review 😅
I have always admired the way you delivered your thoughts. Longer video you made, but so engaging and entertaining that I did not feel like it was an hour. Hat off.
The thing I hate the most about this video.... is that you didn't publish it earlier because I ended up buying this before reselling it 😭😭
Even tho i don't exactly share your view of the game, i actualy realy liked this video. A lot of good points. The only thing i would disagree with is the fact that Oathsworn/sleeping gods are simply better games. Sure, cleaner and more streamlined designs, but ATO has some realy grandiouse ambitions that it executes on. If you like that, a game like oathsworn is much "worse" then ATO. If you don't Oathsworn is a much better game.
It's probably more nuanced than that. The discussion about locations and other factors come into play as well, though you're correct that "better" is subjective.
I'm with you there, Oathsworn was my Game of the Year 2022. As I only received ATO in Dec 2022 it didn't even compete, but now it sits comfy at GotY23 with clearly no competition. Both great games. I appreciate the epicness of ATO a lot, and the non linear ways the story gets revealed.
This is as always a very well produced video, entertaining, and clever. One thing I have major gripes with. First, your conjecture about the nymphs. I don't like how some of them are depicted either (for moral reasons). BUT the narrative you form from there is an accusation as wild as it is heavy - and requires quite some justification. This "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality is in itself morally objectionable. Inclusivity is a high moral value. But so is procedural justice - and the latter got stomped in this video.
So you explore abstract world tiles with nothing unique to discover and just RNG what is there? You get pulled into multi hour battles to just reset a dial? What is the point of all this?
Thats true in the beginning, but not later on. Maybe reviewer didn't get that far
Part of reason people play these general is for the battles. If you don't like battles, there are people play story mode and just skip battles altogether
My first reaction was "Hell yeah, over an hour video from NPI" and my last reaction was "Goddamn, it's 2 AM already." Awesome video, joy to watch. I feel compelled to try to figure out what these factions do that you can't say on RUclips.
I can only imagine that it has to do with grape being ingrained into their society (because typical violent themes wouldn't be enough to make a remark about it)
I don't know if I've ever seen a review more efficiently convey that I definitely won't enjoy a game than the first minute of this one. Great job!
As someone who has only relatively recently (within the past 3 years) gotten into the modern boardgames scene, but who is a long time video game player: I am really disappointed and honestly a bit bewildered by these kind of board games that seem to chase the idea of being videogames. It feels to me like such a failure to design for the medium you are working with and I really don't get why you would want to chase the stagnant trends, fans, and status of mainstream "hardcore" gaming.
I feel the same, but i'm in the hobby for like 15 years. I don't like this direction for board games and i absolutely loathe the state of mainstream videogames. But a lot of people seem to like it and it prints big moneys...
there is nothing mainstream about this game. it’s about as niche as you can get.
Thank you, I have been thinking this so often. This could be a nice videogame. The rules are auto enforced, no setup, no book keeping etc. I have the feeling this kind of games are made by people who are lazy to learn to code
I'd further argue that making a giant massive huge story driven combat game with ever system you can think of is easy. Make an hour long game with easy rules, straight forward mechanics, and minimal components, that's still replayable and compelling is way harder.
This is the type of game- much like KDM, and even Warhammer 40k- Where I read about it or hear rules explanations and I'm totally riveted, it sounds amazing and fun and I want to play it all the way through. And then the actual game ends up so dry and slow that I lose all interest very quickly.
Interesting. Any other games that you see them as that kind of games?
Oh thank gosh I made it through the intro! Much better now. 😁The Intro's intentional firehose-pacing was a struggle...which became positively demoralizing when the second table was pulled in. 🤦♂
I think this one is far too extra for me. This makes 40k look like tidily winks .
I mean ultimately, it's not that complicated of a game. It's just the UPKEEP that is too much. It's too much manual work. It should have been a strategy rpg videogame where the upkeep is done for you. The actual game and mechanics are really fun.
This feels like it learned nothing from all the problems with Kingdom Death and is just replicating it, even all these years later. Hard pass.
As a fan of the game (love a lot of parts of it)... I also like this review. Really well done, Efka.
I personally prefer Aeons Trespass over Sleeping Gods (though I also like that) - but you are very right in your criticisms of some of the map and the nymphs especially. It's hard to square.
My personal take on c2 was more positive than yours, but I really liked the mechanical interaction of humanity versus failure.
Good work! Criticism is good.
Honestly my only real major disagreement with this review is the oathsworn recommendation. Its treatment of witches was ...lets say I prefer nymphs and I dislike the nymphs. :/
Thanks for this, I was thinking about buying Oathsworn and Sleeping Gods, now I'll do it this month.
This game sounds absolutely bonkers and like it is for D&D players who dislike all the non-combat focus that game has.
Gateway DnD game with tactile map and components sounds about right
I agree with pretty much all the points, but the way you were talking about the ambush, did you miss that it is a one time event? It sounds like it happened a lot to you which would be extremely annoying
I played C1 a while ago, but I think there're more ambushes. Maybe 1 more. Anyway... I guess the important msg is once the card is flipped it goes out of the exploration deck "forever".
@@JohnHoliver totally possible I just never got the second. I only had the one in my campaign though
Still playing through the "tutorial" of this game. Kingdom Death Monster is my favorite game ever, so I figured I might as well try the copy cat everyone loves. So far it's interesting, I like the changed/additions they made to the combat. Looking forward to playing more
Wayyyyy better than KDM. Just hang in there, the juice is worth the squeeze
they say imitation is the best form of compliment :-)
@@adam551982 KDM is better. If you want we can have an essay battle over this. I come equipped with hundreds of hours of play in both so steel yourself
@@TeChNoWC7 as one who is looking to buying one of the two, please let loose.
Probably this comment will be go unnoticed in the flood. Anyway.
First of all i want to start from the spoiler, without going to spoiler it 😅
What you are saying is partially true. There is another, more important, actor in the ending and i found that looking through his pow is better explaining the cycle 1 mood.
I played cycle 1 with another guy and we never used 2 table. We just covered the map tile with the battle map. Easy fix to a big problem.
I’m currently playing cycle 2 solo and i used a different approach. I just put on the table the newly explored tile. You don’t really need to look at all the map everytime.
As for the adventure hub we choosed for a simple solution. Once you start an hub, you complete it before rolling for a new one. Better streamlined experience.
I know most ppl doesn’t like technology on the table but the official app and the unofficial one (scribe) helps alot at keeping the table hog under control. This enanched my experience alot.
However i found that your review nailed down every problems the game has.
Comment for the algorithm. Also, great review. Good clear descriptions. I love how you reviewed the world building as well as the geberal gameplay. Seems like such a disorganized mess
Im finding it interesting how directly it copies main mechanics from KDM. Even the emptiness of battle board.
And the box art design. It’s a total ripoff
Dude, you are amazing! Honestly, a lot of ppl won’t be happy with your take, but, thank you for not just being honest, but putting in the time and work to arrive at a place where you feel confident in your honest appraisal. I agree about oathsworn, and I actually bought a cheap and used sleeping gods a little while ago to play on my own. I’m always impressed with every video you do. Thank you!
Personally Sleeping Gods was a snoozefest and doesn’t hold a candle to ATO
@@TeChNoWC7 While ATO feels like maybe "too much" to me, I actually didn't get the hype about Sleeping Gods either. It was... fine I guess. I think a lot of those alternate recommendations kind of miss what a lot of people are interested in something like ATO for anyway. It's not just exploration it's WHAT you're exploring. Mysterious pulp adventure island or somewhat dark but still mostly standard fantasy setting are fine and all... I even like those kind of things, but they aren't weirdo hyperkinetic Lovecraftian TechnoGreek that ATO is, I mean THAT'S the draw, is there an alternative specifically for that?
@@ironwolf56 the main draw for me for ATO and Oathsworn is that they are boss battlers - so story based campaign games in general aren’t going to be a replacement for me.
This game looks a whole lot like Kingdom Death Monster to me...
Most complicated game? I vote for Avalon Hill's epic "Third Reich" for that honor. ; )
Advanced Squad Leader 300 pages +-
@@samhudson3814 Ah, ASL. Great choice.
and avalon hill's Magic Realm!
Star Fleet Battles died out for a reason...
I have been trying to decide if I should get this game. I still don't know (which means I probably shouldn't), but this review is hilarious. Subscribed!
People should also check out the recent review of this game by The King of Average, who calls it his favorite game. He also discusses the app which seems to address several of Efka’s criticisms (like not being able to remember story beats and choices-the app lets you add note reminders). This game obviously won’t be for everyone, but it’s notable that lots of people do love it and find it a masterpiece. Even in this comment section, almost everyone who has played it has liked it. I’m looking forward to trying it. It looks epic. I like games like Tainted Grail, Solomon Kane, etc, and I’ll be playing solo or occasionally with my wife with a large dining table I can keep this on.
It is a masterpiece. But the reviewer isnt wrong about heaviness, setup/tears, and player elimination. 2 players with large table is ideal. You may enjoy more than us who has less than ideal setup
I agree with every one of your criticisms and comments. I played solo, ( won cycle number I, and I think I did not like the game as well as you do. I tried to be respectful of it. I think it can be a great game for those who like it, but with all those blemishes, I could not like it. I'd like to add one more criticism that I think you are aware of but did not mention: There's an advantage in NOT playing solo. If you forget a rule, the other players might remember it and point it out. When 3 or 4 people play THIS game, I envision many arguments about possibly-forgotten nonrules and misrules, resolved by all but one player tapping their feet in annoyance while the other player hunts through the ONE copy of the rulebook. -toby
Good review, sounds like an ideal gateway game for beginners.
😂
@@kango4633 gateway 5e or DnD players, sounds about right
I confess I have seen this with my board gamer's eyes ;)
sleepless nights thinking about backing ATO, but now I have a good night sleep though :)))
Me too
Couldn't agree more with your final comments and thoughts on the Kickstarter reprint campaign. It is a total mess like you said and so extortionately expensive with add on after add on. Even the All Ins don't include everything and then there is shipping for a pallet of a game (I'm slightly exaggerating here).
Then there are the 'interesting' marketing techniques: early bird bonus' on 'limited' pledges that turn out not to be limited because they just add another at the same price and then the early bird disappears if you go All In later; stretch goals that when reached unlock a paid for addon which then becomes free if another stretch goal is reached wt?; two linked but really separate campaigns that have 'applicable' stretch goals attached to them so when a new goal is reached you have to work out if it is applicable to whatever you have pledged for; twenty or so addons you can purchase on top of the core pledges...
I could go on but is this game really interesting enough to tie my poor simple brain in knots over and empty my bank account for something I may get in 2 years? I had kind of made the decision already but your video has confirmed mine to give this a miss.
Cheers
Here is my solution for only using one table :) ruclips.net/video/nIGZwwzE0hM/видео.html
Also for the concern about using dedicated gear for knockdown. Please note there is an argo ability for standing up which means you don't need dedicated gear on individual titans.
For complicated next review SPI's AirWar '77. I remember it fondly...
It's an amazing situation. All of your points are valid and I agree to a certain point. Nevertheless I have so much fun with the game - it's one of my all-time favourites. It's astonishing that a game with so many flaws can be near perfect in the end (for me).
The reason is, it’s easy to pick one part or mechanic of a game and say „but it’s done better elsewhere“. It’s so hard trying to „review“ this, that it’s all about talking about isolated stuff and experiences, instead of weaving them together and give a bigger picture. Imo games are like art, and sure one stroke could have been done better, but what counts is the overall experience it leads to
So I get when people talk about the stuff they don’t like but most of them are symptoms, not the „reasons“. Because: there’s a reason the game is so big, it tries to achieve something that way… so you can complain about that, or see it as a strength. But that’s common with complex things…do you understand why it’s that way and appreciate that, or do you focus on the little things it does not good. And I t’s way easier to do the last one (without bad intent)
MHH a mini that I can use in a 1 in 1000 Chance . Reasonable😂
And yet---- I've seen it twice already in cycle 1, the first time in the tutorial battle! Maybe happens more often that we think?
As always it is very impressive how much thought and skill you put into your review videos! Learned a lot about AT:O in this one and will rewatch your review of Oathsworn now :-)
You’ve never played ASL lol now that’s complicated
DUN is heavier. I also say so is middara, league of dungenoneers, and sleeping gods maybe rules light but a lot to manage too
That's Numberwang!
Great review. By about 32 seconds in you'd shown me why this game isn't for me. All that junk on the table, all that set up, clean up, rules rules rules.
Wow, 2 minutes in and I am both repelled and intrigued... phobia and philia at the same time.
Sounds like a great system... if they make a PC port. I'm honestly spoiled by Gloomhaven, Terraforming Mars and Scythe digital and BGA now.
And rightly so, some games should never be board games in a physical form, only digital ... because tediousness to remember all the complex rules and then set it up on two huge tables is just ridiculous ... as if that was not enough, storing it afterward is a nightmare if you can't leave it all set till the next session due for lacking the space ... for all the reasons above I am not backing it ... don't even start me on the price for all in
Finally got to watch the whole video. I love ATO but I still respect how you did this! Wow subscribing
After days of rules prep and teaching my husband, we set down to play. I couldn't get past the first fight, immediately sold everything to my friend who will probably love it. I think this will be heaven for some people, but for me it was not even okay. I backed it for the map exploration 1/2 which is sad because by the time I finished that fight, I knew that no matter how awesome that other 1/2 may be, it could never make up for the fight scenes. I curled back into Frosthaven wondering why I even considered dating someone else.
If you like the story, you can house rule auto win every battle
Alternatively there's 7th citadel or tainted grail with house rules
@Gold Smeeth 7th doesn't really have a story. Tainted grail definitely does though, and the combat is fairly quick
I love soloing 7th Continent and I await 7th Citadel with excitement. I think the price and size of AT:O is way too high for me to keep it in the name of a maybe-good story; and I don't even know if it will be good as I didn't get very far. This review did clarify for me that I also would not have liked the map exploration 1/2 as it lacks the cohesive world building and connectivity I seek. Tainted Grail sits in my shelf of future enjoyment lol, I also backed it because of the map exploration. For crunchy combat, we continue to enjoy Frosthaven and Oathsworn.
This review isn't really needed. ATO is made for certain types of people. You know if you're that type of person or not.
Awesome review.
I’m one of those weird players that care more about the theme/art style/world than the mechanics.
Sleeping gods, TMB, oathsworn, gloomhaven all have fun mechanics but I just cannot get excited to dive back in. I’m curious and enjoy playing with friends but not itching to play those games.
this is not a 9.2/10 lol #inflated
I've got to chime in here and say that I'm halfway through Cycle 2, have logged 41 Primordial battles (had to restart cycles a few times), and I have never once performed an Out of Reach Evade. I never felt the need to. Plus, it's not even a viable tactic for many Primordials because they don't always just target the Titan in front. I would say that, with few exceptions, setting up an OOR Evade is more trouble than it's worth and has the potential to massively backfire.
There's more than one solutions to a fight.
OOR is often coupled with flamemoth or that taunt helmet that turns you into the target. Though it's balanced because it uses a lot of fate. And I dont think reviewers OOR works on every battle