I think there is a very simple question to be answered here. When the orange order returned to walk past Ardoyne no one except a token few Catholics were allowed onto the Crumlin Road to protest. When the GARC counter protest walked the Crumlin Road the Protestants were not prevented from going onto the Crumlin and allowed within yards of the Catholics and all the while the riot police faced the Ardoyne protesters.
I think these people (both sides) would benefit from travel. They'd soon realise how much they have in common. Honestly people are just people. Nationality is a myth. Love and peace to all ✌️🕊️💕
03:07 - Again, if people have committed a crime, they should face the law of the land 03:14 - ONE band and ONE lodge? Hardly the invasion some try to make out 04:01 - Hemmed in? Sure not less than a minute ago the video was saying how quiet Ardoyne was 04:30 - Seems like a quiet, peaceful and respectful march to me 04:58 - and there we have it...the OO abide by the parades commission demands 06:30 - ...and there we go....the unprovoked violence starts! 06:40 - Disgraceful actions by thugs
Hearing them talk about how these parades cause people to be arrested is hilarious. There's a solution. Protest peacefully. On the 12th July one side of the community walked through Ardoyne at 3.55 and then left, whilst one side of the community committed attempted murder. But let's not let the facts get in the way.
I am English it is well known that we were part of the allies that beat Germany in 1945 now I have a great idea lets allus English parade through berlin every year on ve day we could really rub there noses in it but thinking about it civilised people don t do that
This is an oddly one-sided report for someone attempting to be a journalist? Funnily enough this Irish fella can be seen shouting abuse at police in another video when they ask him to move out of the way for his safety.
ok i dont agree with burning of orange halls and apologise for my bad language but why do bands have to march in areas where they know catholics are stirring things up and then claim its their culture
00:20 - OO abide by Parades Commission decision. 00:58 - So OO have made concessions, and reduced the size of the march from "thousands" to less than 50 people 01:21 - How does he know that protestants don't use that road on the other 364 days of the year? 01:32 - Don't recall there ever being trouble for the outgoing parade in the morning, so why in the evening? These offended residents still in their bed? 01:39 - They don't march through Ardoyne...they march past a very small section of it.
I remember playing football in the street with a few friends at just after 9am one morning when I was 12. It was on the Ardoyne Road, using the fences of both Wheatfield Primary School and Holy Cross Primary School as 'nets'. Once car came flying up, driven by a man with a woman in the front passenger seat and a young schoolgirl in the back. When he passed us he called us Orange bastards out the window. We got scared and decided to walk up the road to the playing fields to continue playing football. The car came back down and out of the Holy Cross gates but instead of turning back towards Ardoyne he turned towards us and flew up the road after us. He got out of the car and with me being the closest child to him it was me he punched - and I'm 44 now so probably won't be growing very much more yet I'm still nowhere near the size that man was (and I'm using the term 'man' very loosely as I can't see any real man who would willingly go out of their way to attack a bunch of kids) - and then he threatened my friends too. He then got back in the car, did a u-turn and drove off again. All in all the incident lasted a few minutes from when he first shouted at us out of the car to him hitting me and then driving off. When the police were called they realised who it was simply from the description us children were able to provide. The police advised my Mum not to press charges for our own safety... Now I haven't lived in Belfast for decades at this point. I would love it if there was no violence on either side. I would love it if the 30 foot barricade could be taken down without worry. But what I intensely dislike is 'journalism' like this which casts the blame solely onto one side. If you want to actually give a proper account then talk to people on both sides - if one group is intent on violence and hurting others whilst the other group is not then let then implicate themselves with their own words. In situations like this I can honestly see it from both viewpoints but I also have to admit that on both sides you'll sadly get those who are out to cause some degree of trouble. But if the man doing this wants to do a proper documentary then do it fairly and don't make it a propaganda piece for one side of the issue.
@@ciaranbrown1983 Because the main 12th July parade consists of bands from different parts of the city. The band is from further up the road than the shops at Ardoyne. They walk down to meet the main parade in the morning and in the evening the march back home, unfortunately they live up past this section.
thanks for making this video. i didnt really understand what was going on 100 percent, had somewhat of a idea. every now and then this stuff makes national news here in the states,but for the most part we dont know whats happening over there.
its all to do with respecting each other, we are all to easily offended by each other, and people on both sides need to stop their triumphalism attitude
union jacks only flown at sea,ulster is 9 counties,and please leave the rent on the kitchen table on the way home to scotland,you were planted here in the 18th century,go read a book
If it's just a group of shops why bother marching past it? They should just stop either side marching into each others communities. Or if the Loyalists really want to march into Irish areas then they should ban any loyalist from drinking alcohol. Most of the time the supporters look to be violent drunks. On the 12th of July and the week leading up to it all alcohol should be banned and anyone who tests positive or selling it should be place under house arrest for any other marches.
When u say no one lives there its still part of the community and many catholics suffered by the protosaints for many years and to have them walk in the community singing and chanting songs that offend us
@@AllyCatmeow Well they aren't marching to the shops 😂, as you can see the crowd and the flags across from the shops are the opposite to the protesters. They march past an entrance to that area and continue on to a larger parade, twit. Oh fock off, are you going to ban the republican "protestors" who weren't about according to their own speaker for the morning parade, no, too lazy or busy scratching their arse in bed to be offended for that part of the day 7/8 am. So they wake up and then arrive down from their area to go to the main road in the afternoon all to be deliberately offended. Can't control their emotions you'll get arrested then....
look to be honest if everyone had your opinion, NI would be a better place, but u have to understand identity and culture is a big thing were we live, so it does need respected, then maybe on day a generation met all have your attitude
To an outside observer it seemed that the PSNI was very biased. The PSNI seemed to defending the Protestants even thou they were throwing bottles and rocks.
That's the slight of hand trick both sides play, when garc filmed this it was cut and edited by nationalists and shows the other side to be the worst but when the other side films they show the nationalists to be worse
So is that the infamous ardoyne shops I just watch a video of the and it looked theres less than 5 fucking shops and it looks like it would take less than 5 min to walk past now the fact that this video is 100% one sided so for some one like who like me has not got a clue about ardoyne if its pure catholic area or mixed so i think it would be better if there was a video shown from both sides that would be much better .
So who lives from flax at to mountain view then , crumlin rd people or ardoyne people ? It's certainly not snouts anymore lol , "we are the people" lol eejits
They didn’t walk “through” they walked passed ardoyne on a MAIN road. You’s have to come out from your homes and walk to the main road to get insulted, JOG ON
Don't know.. as i said i don't know a lot about it..but if it starts with the kids now and their left to get on and be friend's with who they like it might just be different in a few yrs time.
With the Irish government being the exception who in the last 5 to 10 years have began to accept the orange order with considerable funding for them and the parade in Donegal seems to go off as a good day out which im sure both communities would be attending.
Good on you bro... it’s good that our society is forever growing with good loyal Protestants ... unlike the Irish catholic priests forever sticking it up the boys dry ... die in your sleep you fenian bastarss
Its spelt Republican, not republian. Since when do you see a Republican band, backed by the State, march through or even near a Unionist area? Where and when are thousands of Protestants hemmed in by thousands of Police in Belfast? If a Republican band played in front of a Protestant church, the nearest Nationalist area would be attacked en masse by the UDA, like the Short Strand was last year. Very few of whom have been areested since.
Look the peace is all brought about by people respecting each others culture. The Catholic people are welcome to come down and enjoy the festivities of the day just like Protestants at St Patricks day and alot of Catholics do. This year in particular we had a lot of people from the south who totally loved the day to get back to there hotel to witness this on the tv. These people arent representitive of the Catholic community time to start giving out stiffer penalties for rioters its 2012.
Yep your right i know absolutely nothing about it at all. .why go a way you know is going to cause conflict?? but yes your bang on i know nothing about it.
It's a shame a 5 min walk past an area not throught just passing as to end like this . I can't see how a march can be blamed by people wrecking there own area . The march it self was peacefulll it's the tag alongs that seem to cause the bother on both sides !
If you need the facts ask your community workers to ask for them as they have been recorded on cctv, perhaps us unionists should ask are mp,s to do some work for a change
Why didn't their fellow middle class Irish men and women give them food , why their fellow middle class Irish men and women abandon them and let them starve ? Did the hole of Ireland starve at that time ....answer no . And why as that ...answer ...because the middle and upper class had money and food but did not help the starving.
It would appear that,in 2012,Republican/Nationalist violence pays dividends....It may be an avenue that the Loyalists may pursue in the future,and to honest,I can't blame them. These "interface issues" seem to be all about appeasing the Nationalist/Republican communities...
resident not locked inn another vid shows a man walking past all the trouble with his shopping bag and no one bats an eyelid THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS TO DO AT THAT TIME OF HIS LIFE.
Observing from Canada , peaceful protest attacked by loyalists at 9.57mins , man attacked by police for merely stating a point of view , young girls taunted by police at bus shelter , young man dragged off and I don,t know what the 6 policemen were doing to him when he was on the ground , Were there any arrests on the loyalist side who were handled with kid gloves .?? P.S.N.I the world is watching you know .!
07:37 - No actual proof of this 07:46 - Again, no evidence of residents being 'attacked' by the PSNI...or perhaps this is because of the violence? 07:54 - So it's the polices fault for being there that the young people have responded? HAHA 07:58 - Good to hear 08:11 - Hahaha, the violence is all the OO fault? Such a statement! 08:17 - Is that blackmail towards the OO? Failure to control their own community more like 08:22 - So, you want the OO not to parade....so GARC can have theirs? Wow
I think there is a very simple question to be answered here. When the orange order returned to walk past Ardoyne no one except a token few Catholics were allowed onto the Crumlin Road to protest. When the GARC counter protest walked the Crumlin Road the Protestants were not prevented from going onto the Crumlin and allowed within yards of the Catholics and all the while the riot police faced the Ardoyne protesters.
I think these people (both sides) would benefit from travel. They'd soon realise how much they have in common. Honestly people are just people. Nationality is a myth. Love and peace to all ✌️🕊️💕
Don't mind people having a march but Christ lads , do use have to do it for 4 months solid
@Pat McCaliskey It's silly carry on.
Is that how long they march for? Sounds alot.
Whats a Catholic Shop?
03:07 - Again, if people have committed a crime, they should face the law of the land
03:14 - ONE band and ONE lodge? Hardly the invasion some try to make out
04:01 - Hemmed in? Sure not less than a minute ago the video was saying how quiet Ardoyne was
04:30 - Seems like a quiet, peaceful and respectful march to me
04:58 - and there we have it...the OO abide by the parades commission demands
06:30 - ...and there we go....the unprovoked violence starts!
06:40 - Disgraceful actions by thugs
Hi...up to 1.32 in how were those men mic'd up? Was that the cam mic picking them up? or you have a boom or wireless mic? The audio is perfect.
Hearing them talk about how these parades cause people to be arrested is hilarious. There's a solution. Protest peacefully. On the 12th July one side of the community walked through Ardoyne at 3.55 and then left, whilst one side of the community committed attempted murder. But let's not let the facts get in the way.
12.00 minutes, is that the ruc singing burn burn burn ... Yeow??
Stark contrast in the behaviour of the OO and the ‘residents March’ here, OO dignified and disciplined, residents just a bunch of thugs.
I am English it is well known that we were part of the allies that beat Germany in 1945 now I have a great idea lets allus English parade through berlin every year on ve day we could really rub there noses in it but thinking about it civilised people don t do that
Ardoyn was always prodestent so they have every right to march there also it’s a British country so we can march if we want
@@caleb4790 A British colony in Ireland.
Pat McCaliskey my apologies that must have been an error on my behalf
@@caleb4790was always Protestant?😂 read up you
This is an oddly one-sided report for someone attempting to be a journalist? Funnily enough this Irish fella can be seen shouting abuse at police in another video when they ask him to move out of the way for his safety.
ok i dont agree with burning of orange halls and apologise for my bad language but why do bands have to march in areas where they know catholics are stirring things up and then claim its their culture
how come the prods dont get pinned in where they live ? let to do what thet want ?
At the end of the day land belongs to no one. When you die 6feet down is all you have.
00:20 - OO abide by Parades Commission decision.
00:58 - So OO have made concessions, and reduced the size of the march from "thousands" to less than 50 people
01:21 - How does he know that protestants don't use that road on the other 364 days of the year?
01:32 - Don't recall there ever being trouble for the outgoing parade in the morning, so why in the evening? These offended residents still in their bed?
01:39 - They don't march through Ardoyne...they march past a very small section of it.
What a way to live??
Marching to get "One" over their neighbours, is more important than living in harmony and peace.
Oh Dear, Oh Dear!
Agree with above ,in my mind a fair and balanced view that you would not hear on the so called mainstream media. Good Stuff
ruclips.net/video/1gxQaKYFx-4/видео.html
I remember playing football in the street with a few friends at just after 9am one morning when I was 12. It was on the Ardoyne Road, using the fences of both Wheatfield Primary School and Holy Cross Primary School as 'nets'.
Once car came flying up, driven by a man with a woman in the front passenger seat and a young schoolgirl in the back. When he passed us he called us Orange bastards out the window. We got scared and decided to walk up the road to the playing fields to continue playing football.
The car came back down and out of the Holy Cross gates but instead of turning back towards Ardoyne he turned towards us and flew up the road after us. He got out of the car and with me being the closest child to him it was me he punched - and I'm 44 now so probably won't be growing very much more yet I'm still nowhere near the size that man was (and I'm using the term 'man' very loosely as I can't see any real man who would willingly go out of their way to attack a bunch of kids) - and then he threatened my friends too. He then got back in the car, did a u-turn and drove off again. All in all the incident lasted a few minutes from when he first shouted at us out of the car to him hitting me and then driving off.
When the police were called they realised who it was simply from the description us children were able to provide. The police advised my Mum not to press charges for our own safety...
Now I haven't lived in Belfast for decades at this point. I would love it if there was no violence on either side. I would love it if the 30 foot barricade could be taken down without worry. But what I intensely dislike is 'journalism' like this which casts the blame solely onto one side. If you want to actually give a proper account then talk to people on both sides - if one group is intent on violence and hurting others whilst the other group is not then let then implicate themselves with their own words.
In situations like this I can honestly see it from both viewpoints but I also have to admit that on both sides you'll sadly get those who are out to cause some degree of trouble. But if the man doing this wants to do a proper documentary then do it fairly and don't make it a propaganda piece for one side of the issue.
He got his wee report then went own to the Europa for a big dinner, then home to his next assignment
this parade does not go through ardoyne for a start. the ardoye residents are not to be seen the other 365 days a year.
Why march there tho
@@ciaranbrown1983 Because the main 12th July parade consists of bands from different parts of the city. The band is from further up the road than the shops at Ardoyne.
They walk down to meet the main parade in the morning and in the evening the march back home, unfortunately they live up past this section.
@ they aren’t wanted in the area and it’s all about supremacy
im icelandic and i have no idea whats going and i got so many questions aaah
i'll love my neighbour when they don't live in my house without permission.
😂😂
That's crazy, are those residents closed into their area with no way out?
No they are not
get a bus in ... ?? or a different route??
Is this still a thing in 2024?
They no longer go past the ardoyne shops thankfully
Ardoyne is in North Belfast, but I get what you mean!
Wow - that's a great reply. Your standard of education is staggering.
thanks for making this video. i didnt really understand what was going on 100 percent, had somewhat of a idea. every now and then this stuff makes national news here in the states,but for the most part we dont know whats happening over there.
Do not believe all that you see, the orangemen are NOT marching THROUGH a Roman Catholic area
well said, couldn;t agree more. looking forward to that video of poster boy Dee Fennel
its all to do with respecting each other, we are all to easily offended by each other, and people on both sides need to stop their triumphalism attitude
Ardoyne will always be a no go area for huns
It was all ways a proudest net area
And btw, the hundreds of thoussands of Irish Nationalists will NEVER leave the 6 counties. We're here to stay. I just want you to know that.
union jacks only flown at sea,ulster is 9 counties,and please leave the rent on the kitchen table on the way home to scotland,you were planted here in the 18th century,go read a book
Still you all claim benefits from the British government along with all your IRA informers hahaha
the narrator not from Belfast.
what did the OL do outside that church?
Loved it when the man with the green shirt and black cap gets clunked around the head with a glass bottle at 9:57 too funny .😃👳
Its just a group of shops , no one lives there , they go out of their way to be offended.
If it's just a group of shops why bother marching past it? They should just stop either side marching into each others communities. Or if the Loyalists really want to march into Irish areas then they should ban any loyalist from drinking alcohol. Most of the time the supporters look to be violent drunks. On the 12th of July and the week leading up to it all alcohol should be banned and anyone who tests positive or selling it should be place under house arrest for any other marches.
When u say no one lives there its still part of the community and many catholics suffered by the protosaints for many years and to have them walk in the community singing and chanting songs that offend us
@@AllyCatmeow Well they aren't marching to the shops 😂, as you can see the crowd and the flags across from the shops are the opposite to the protesters. They march past an entrance to that area and continue on to a larger parade, twit. Oh fock off, are you going to ban the republican "protestors" who weren't about according to their own speaker for the morning parade, no, too lazy or busy scratching their arse in bed to be offended for that part of the day 7/8 am. So they wake up and then arrive down from their area to go to the main road in the afternoon all to be deliberately offended. Can't control their emotions you'll get arrested then....
look to be honest if everyone had your opinion, NI would be a better place, but u have to understand identity and culture is a big thing were we live, so it does need respected, then maybe on day a generation met all have your attitude
Jesus must be so proud looking down.
To an outside observer it seemed that the PSNI was very biased. The PSNI seemed to defending the Protestants even thou they were throwing bottles and rocks.
That's the slight of hand trick both sides play, when garc filmed this it was cut and edited by nationalists and shows the other side to be the worst but when the other side films they show the nationalists to be worse
So is that the infamous ardoyne shops
I just watch a video of the and it looked theres less than 5 fucking shops and it looks like it would take less than 5 min to walk past now the fact that this video is 100% one sided so for some one like who like me has not got a clue about ardoyne if its pure catholic area or mixed so i think it would be better if there was a video shown from both sides that would be much better .
The compromise is simple: Ban ALL parades/marches on both sides from residential areas, Marches and parades to happen only in town & city centres.
Ardoyne is a main arterial route into the city centre
Crumlin road isn't even ardoyne ffs !!!
So who lives from flax at to mountain view then , crumlin rd people or ardoyne people ? It's certainly not snouts anymore lol , "we are the people" lol eejits
They didn’t walk “through” they walked passed ardoyne on a MAIN road. You’s have to come out from your homes and walk to the main road to get insulted, JOG ON
and wee sean was just out buying his wee granny a pint of milk
pmsl go on wit ya and well said
Don't know.. as i said i don't know a lot about it..but if it starts with the kids now and their left to get on and be friend's with who they like it might just be different in a few yrs time.
Why dont you stop fighting and just get along?
Dont think either side wants to back down over northern ireland being british or reunited with ireland. Imo thats what this mostly comes down to.
Well said.
Your fella at the start sounds like he is from Ardoyne ffs
With the Irish government being the exception who in the last 5 to 10 years have began to accept the orange order with considerable funding for them and the parade in Donegal seems to go off as a good day out which im sure both communities would be attending.
Well done for showing the affects of the orange marches on the Ardoyne residents. (rarely seen)
Those orange marchers are also from ardoyne
Say`s who ???
loyalism does not make any sense to a logical human being it requires the suspension of logical thinking
my grandad was an Orangeman & i hope one day to take his sash into my care.. Chin up guys..
Bigotry must run in the family
Good on you bro... it’s good that our society is forever growing with good loyal Protestants ... unlike the Irish catholic priests forever sticking it up the boys dry ... die in your sleep you fenian bastarss
Large jock Was aware fuck the huns kah up the ra u 2nd class sitazin
@@largejockwasaware5100 Scotland is Englands tampax lol.......IRA destroyed the brits. Beaten by a temporary army. the humiliation pmsl
yes you should
Its spelt Republican, not republian. Since when do you see a Republican band, backed by the State, march through or even near a Unionist area? Where and when are thousands of Protestants hemmed in by thousands of Police in Belfast? If a Republican band played in front of a Protestant church, the nearest Nationalist area would be attacked en masse by the UDA, like the Short Strand was last year.
Very few of whom have been areested since.
if you dont march past there will be no trouble its that simple
All we are saying is give peace a chance
Why have we not got fat dee yet
Look the peace is all brought about by people respecting each others culture. The Catholic people are welcome to come down and enjoy the festivities of the day just like Protestants at St Patricks day and alot of Catholics do. This year in particular we had a lot of people from the south who totally loved the day to get back to there hotel to witness this on the tv. These people arent representitive of the Catholic community time to start giving out stiffer penalties for rioters its 2012.
I had fourrrr greeeen fields too bad u only three now.
Dee loves an audience and a camera crew but he’s not so good on his own
Keep it go lad
NO SURRENDER
Yep your right i know absolutely nothing about it at all. .why go a way you know is going to cause conflict?? but yes your bang on i know nothing about it.
The irish dont want provocative marches through their areas!
Prostant also walk and shop there
@@nikkiaiken yea catholics havent protested not attacked them for using THEIR shops... shows ya the difference between the 2
1.25 , 364 days,, / but it only 1 day ,! from 365 !! my family are both,, & all my family likes the 12th,!!!
haha i like the part were he said "volatile situation"
we walk down that road every day, its a public highway there is more shops than houses and its our culture and history. grow up people
Ban them from walking
The majority now Chucky r law
It's a shame a 5 min walk past an area not throught just passing as to end like this . I can't see how a march can be blamed by people wrecking there own area . The march it self was peacefulll it's the tag alongs that seem to cause the bother on both sides !
And that's why you're a balloon
Who is this guy , he's foreign , hes from the ROI .
He's a native of this Island!
lol that sign "End Hatred of Orange Culture" at around 9:25 really confused me because the phrase pretty much goes 2 ways...
If you need the facts ask your community workers to ask for them as they have been recorded on cctv, perhaps us unionists should ask are mp,s to do some work for a change
Glad they got a wash.
apparantly its a very volatile situation....
Ah sure the prods will be out of ardoyne soon anyway
All the republicans will be out of east Belfast soon
yea, but how many religious people actually follow their religious text?
gee. if only they could afford to go on holiday
Why didn't their fellow middle class Irish men and women give them food , why their fellow middle class Irish men and women abandon them and let them starve ?
Did the hole of Ireland starve at that time ....answer no .
And why as that ...answer ...because the middle and upper class had money and food but did not help the starving.
Old Post but weren't middle/ upper predominantly Protestant ' brits' ?
guy takes bottle to the head like a champ at 10:00
exactly so
"Let Us Live In Peace." Then why parade where ur not wanted?
Why aren't they wanted? Is it a sectarian reason or do you just hate music 🎶
Will the human rights observers be filming the stone throwers, petrol bombers and those encouraging them to do so
Removed to where and when??.Not saying you lying but not heard of it before.If they went to Israel after 1947 id say they went willingly
no you want to kill but not be killed that why you choose to surrender.
volatile is his favourite word
It would appear that,in 2012,Republican/Nationalist violence pays dividends....It may be an avenue that the Loyalists may pursue in the future,and to honest,I can't blame them.
These "interface issues" seem to be all about appeasing the Nationalist/Republican communities...
I feel sorry for you with your seething hate , because that hate could hurt you long term , you should try to love your neighbour.
resident not locked inn another vid shows a man walking past all the trouble with his shopping bag and no one bats an eyelid THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS TO DO AT THAT TIME OF HIS LIFE.
Fennell Lundy the big boys of ardoyne
Observing from Canada , peaceful protest attacked by loyalists at 9.57mins , man attacked by police for merely stating a point of view , young girls taunted by police at bus shelter , young man dragged off and I don,t know what the 6 policemen were doing to him when he was on the ground , Were there any arrests on the loyalist side who were handled with kid gloves .?? P.S.N.I the world is watching you know .!
its always done my head in has irland.How people born in irland can think they are british just blags my head
Just here for the comments lol
07:37 - No actual proof of this
07:46 - Again, no evidence of residents being 'attacked' by the PSNI...or perhaps this is because of the violence?
07:54 - So it's the polices fault for being there that the young people have responded? HAHA
07:58 - Good to hear
08:11 - Hahaha, the violence is all the OO fault? Such a statement!
08:17 - Is that blackmail towards the OO? Failure to control their own community more like
08:22 - So, you want the OO not to parade....so GARC can have theirs? Wow
volatile situation
so would the police be catholic or protestant or both, they have a thankless task..
Police are over 2/3 prodestemt but remain neutral
@@caleb4790 thanks Caleb
Good to see you out marching on the glorious 12th.
Uppa RA
Fuck you upa RA
because we are the ones being milked for billions and im one among many who are sick of the lot of them
The police still faced towards the Catholics even though the other side were the ones throwing shit.
Cheers comrade. I have a seething hate for loyalism, it's just plain wrong man.
we did watu wanted and still got fuck all