#metoo googled it and found this www.larsonelectronics.com/category/593/pneumatic-light-masts ; y are theres the ones in clives video called penumatic ? it has nothing to do with air right ?
Ah, so they did design it? And these are clones of the original? Not so sure about their oil test. Not so much the oil bit, but the washing in soapy water afterwards.
@@bigclivedotcom Chris from Astro tools designs the Astro 40sl light (as well as many other tools). I am not sure who is responsible for the clone knock offs. He is a really smart dude if you have any questions I am sure he'd be happy to answer them over an email. Let me know, I can put you in contact with him.
Eric O is a really nice bloke, he looks after his customers very well. There isn't much he can't repair carwise, i've watched his channel for a long time. Yep the Astro light is well thought out.
Eric O bought an astro light for me in as I couldn't get one in UK He's a great bloke. IIRC it cost me about £90 2 years ago with the shipping and import duty etc, He even enclosed an SMA T shirt with a pocket!
@@RoyCousins I always get a good laugh at that line! He'll do an incredibly difficult diagnoses then throw that out at the end. Like there's anyway I could possibly do it!
At moments you went so stuttery that you seemed like you were fangirling the thing. Shows how interesting this stuff is to you. Very nice. Thanks for sharing.
AP one is not made in China. Also made from PA66, not ABS like the others. And if you take the dating cover off the battery, you'll see its Samsung or LG, not no name like the others. (I've opened both kinds)
Chantal?? Tell me to bugger off! But im interested in why youve been taking apart lights?? Also what is your profession? I think its great you being in this game being a Woe man :) Great stuff
I love these comparisons! I bought one of the cheapies and it’s served me very well for occasional use but the click-stop power switch has gone soft. Still works but it’s clearly the cheapness of a clone showing through!
I've never seen these. Might have come in useful when i was bustin knuckles fer a living. (automatic transmission specialist, 30yrs. USA) I have an idea. How about incorporating a small magnetic motor, with a turbine attached, to act as a generator when applying compressed air pressure? Gives 'charging' a whole pneu meaning, don't it?
I have a Lidl version of this design for at least three years and it's been fine. They are so useful when finding things under a table or inside a device.
Great video upload Clive! Thank you for brightening up a dreary rainy Saturday afternoon here in the state of Misery (Missouri) I have a "very" Cheap-O version of these LED lights that doesn't have a variable resistor control, just a push button switch that selects between the long 20 LED COB and a small 6 LED COB at the very end. It came with four really cheap "Blazing Voltz" brand AA size batteries that say Super Heavy Duty - No Mercury added along the side. LOL Thank you again for making my weekend a lot better! :)
In the 1950's there was a fellow named Earl Muntz, here in the States, (Madman Muntz, for those who remember) who made a fortune by building TV sets with the absolute minimum number of components necessary to get a raster and a picture. He did this by studying the designs of 'reputable' builders, and cutting out components until the set wouldn't work anymore. This actually had a name. It became known as "muntzing.' I guess the Japanese copied American Quality control protocols, and improved upon them, while the Chinese concentrated on copying Mr Muntz...
Love your in-depth but yet simple explanations of the entire layout and how they work. Probably learnt more about how basic components work from your videos than from my classes. Could you maybe open up a modern smartphone sometime ? Would love to hear your view on how they are designed and probably educate people on how the devices that run their lives actually work... If possible that is...
The 33322 IC is probably the m34 LED flasher IC. The only ones I could find are through hole ones but they too have 3 pins, so it seems to be the same chip
I have a Braum. It uses an 18650 battery which can be user replaced without tools. The Tesla uses 7,104 18650 batteries. So when replacing the batteries in your Tesla order 7,105 so you'll have an extra one for your flashlight. The Braum only has full bright and one dim setting selected by a button not a pot. The dim is realized by switching at about 100Hz.
I found that for serious torque, you can’t beat a bit brace. There are adaptors that fit in the standard brace jaws and let one use standard-drive hex-base screwdriver bits, and others that allow 1/4” or 3/8” sockets. Way better than almost all cordless tools.
I have the Braun LED light (H.F.) "clone" of the Astro. Pretty much the same thing except the angle adjustment is between the light and the handle. It's worked well. About 2 yrs ago I dropped it into a bucket of coolant. Probably soaked in it for about 15 seconds till I rescued it and I still use it today.
Opened mine. Same mainboard date as the first one. But different resistor values and none of the capacitors where soldered. I added a thermal pad on the mosfet. Hopefully it will last longer with it.
Astro Pneumatic is just the name of the company. They make professional tools. They started with Pneumatic tools. Hence the name Astro Pneumatic. Little bit of copy and google goes a long way.
Oooooh, it's an _Astro Pneumatic_ lamp. Not an Astro _Pneumatic lamp_ I did Google it, but the website is astrotools.com Which still implies it's a _pneumatic lamp_
@@dwarf365 They are semi-professional at best. Their tools are not top notch quality but they will get the job done well enough if you are a cheap a$$ .
Driving a transistor below full on makes it a constant current source. That would keep the brightness fairly constant in this circuit because the drive voltage varies a small amount as the battery voltage drops. I use 2 diodes in battery powered items to provide a constant drive voltage to a transistor for driving led lighting at a constant 1ma. Makes for very long battery powered led with constant brightness.
Interesting that the Astro unit's battery doesn't have any circuit board attached to it, but (and I probably missed it) there doesn't seem to be that circuitry on the Astro's main board either that offers the same functionality. When it comes to saving pennies on each device, I'd assume that copying Astro's single circuit board design would be cheaper.
I wonder if the PCB would accommodate a larger output MOSFET and some large solder blobs on both sides of those 1 ohm resistors? Perhaps under the TP4056 chip as well? (If there’s enough room in the case.)
As a mechanic, cannot stress enough how much nicer it is to work with good color, long lasting, flicker free, bright light. In the early days of LED handlights I went through so many to find the gooduns, but the simple rule seems to always be, you get what you pay for. that said I keep cheapies in all my vehicles, cause crap light is better than no light!!
I seem to have missed something or misunderstood. @bigclivedotcom the drive for the mosfets was there or not a high value resistor "10k thru 1M" on gate of mosfet to ground to force open the A1SHB. mosfets are a Voltage device if gate left floating it wont change state or at least remain at the previous state. if you have omitted for clarity or confusion i understand. or is their no need for said resistor because of the potentiometer must be scrolled to zero before the switch cuts connection. it is odd that youtube finds that it wants to correct mosfet to samoset or marmosets if it is mosfets. potentiometer is not in the dictionary as well.
For the Astro, U1 appears to be from Feeling Technology: datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Feeling-Tech-FP8102XR-G1_C88310.pdf I also failed to find data on the other two devices. However with both of these having PCB marking prefixes of "U" ("U2" and "U3"), I would not expect either of them to be a Transistor.
You are right on the money Clive, the 2305 transistor has almost the double of the current capacity and half of the RDS on of the ones used on the clones.
Hey Big Clive, When I was a tiny kid, I had a snap circuits kit; it's a kit made of electronics components encased in big hunks of plastic with clothing buttons set up to electrically connect them. One day, I was building one of the project circuits when a red LED started quietly screeching, increasing in pitch, until the diffuser violently burst open, hitting me quite hard in the forehead with a tiny piece of plastic. The LED was running on normal voltage it was designed for; the kit must have been about six or seven years old at that point. What could have caused the LED to explode like that, considering it was only running on two AA batteries and the package it was in was designed for exactly what it was being used for?
For the first unit described, it is a bit crazy to use a MOSFET in its linear region to control LED current in a battery operated portable mini work light. You really would want a current controlled switching approach, but this would require an inductor. The current as seen by the LEDs would not be switching ON and OFF, the current would be regulated to a certain brightness level. The current regulation should be switched at somewhere above hearing, like 33kHz or higher, depending on the inductor size needed and cost. You would not see the light strobe on and off by shaking it. The four 1 Ohm resistors in parallel will not guarantee 4x the power dissipation, but only spread the heat out evenly over the board. The heat then has to be carried to ambient in some manner at the power rate required. I think the newest Astro model uses USB C (universal jack not keyed) and not micro USB II connector for power. The Astro model regulating FET could easily move up in size to an SOT223 or even a DPAK, which would give many more options for features needing a larger die. Also, another strange omission on the PCB, is you would want to put a lot of thermal vias around the regulating FET with a corresponding large heat sink pad on the back. If you use a larger power package like the DPAK you can actually stripe the thermal pad (alternating solder mask over a row of vias and a row of tinned copper) to prevent solder wicking down the vias without paying to have the vias filled. With striping under the power package you actually have a much shorter heat path and the vias are largely underneath the package, which saves space, permitting the use of the larger package.
It's kind of interesting how a simpler circuit = "cheaper" as in cheaply made, cutting corners, etc. for you electronics guys. I'm a controls engineer. If I can do the SAME thing with LESS code or simpler code that means quicker scan times and a smaller program which equates to a higher quality program (as long as it's still robust and debugged). It's interesting how those things are viewed in different circumstances.
I suppose it's not really that different. It's just that the cheapo ones often get optimized past the point of still being "robust and debugged", some of them hit the sweet spot, and some, like the Astro here, cover even some extreme corner cases that shouldn't pose a problem most of the time, but are there for the peace of mind nonetheless.
Interestinly, the data sheet for the genuine lamp (the product page Clive linked) states that they are fitted exclusively with either Samsung or Panasonic cells. The one that Clive found in this one seemed rather generically Chinese to say the least. Maybe they made the change in more recent production...?
its always nice to have a great work light, preferably that has some staying power. I have been intrigued by these cob panels after watching you and have been scavenging them if possible. Im watching you do this video and pulling apart a christmas light string with one of those drivers that swaps the polarity to light a long string with alternating sequences, 8 modes. all apart I got a nice battery box for a jewel thief or solar light and a long string of leds to build with. I even saved the driver board and tested it to run on LIon.
Clive, you should take a loot at Lidl PSDD 2000 A1 light. It's the same type of light as those in this video, but the PCB has different and quite interesting two board construction.
I wonder to what extent you can identify the designer or school of designers, of a circuit from idiosyncratic touches like the mosfet lamp power limiting applied during the charging cycle?
Reminds me of one of the lights we can get here in the states from everybody's favorite chinese tool import Warehouse harbor freight.. The Braun slim folding. However the difference is it's an all metal case with a removable battery. Quite a handy little light. My testing on their battery was 2300mah I went out and purchased some of the orbtronic high capacity which are 3400mah. So Rather than constantly charging through the USB port I keep an extra set of batteries in my tool bag and charge the batteries as needed. Quite handy indeed in my opinion.
The main weakness I'm seeing for the cheaper ones, at least from a mechanic perspective. If you do transmission, brake or power steering work the fluid will make that plastic extremely brittle. PA66 tends to handle those fluids a lot longer before it succumbs to the embrittlement problem. Nothing a little plastic wrap can't fix though, stuff works wonders to protect your tools from harsh oils. I just might order one of the knockoffs next time I can afford it, all of my lights are either LED lanterns or a really bulky old fashion LED bar that had the big chunky LEDs with a magnet that has seen too many metal shavings to be useful any longer.
Thanks for the teardowns! I have a chep chinese copy for car related work, pretty good so far. Did you measure the output current to the LEDs? What's the difference between the Astro and the copies?
Huh, I have one of these but mine is branded Matco I got off the truck never knew there where other types lol. The matco one is also very bright and well made.
The 4 X 1.2 ohm resistors in the expensive light will have a lower resistance than the 2 X 1 ohm resistor used in the cheaper light. This could explain the higher light intensity of the premium light.
The 2305 (Si2305DS) MOSFET in the original is specified for a gate turn-on voltage as low as 1.8V (at 0.108 Ohms drain-source resistance). Cheapest price in volume (>1000) I could find: $0.16. The A1SHB (Si2301DS) in the Chinese clones is specified for a gate turn-on voltage as low as 2.5V (at 0.180 Ohms drain-source resistance) - at 1.8V the A1SHB it basically off. Cheapest price in volume (>1000) I could find: $0.14. Every Chinese engineer who's worth his or her money would of course swap those parts to shave off 2 cents. I mean it's simply to tempting: Putting in a part that barely meets the requirements, slowly cooking off in operation and making 2 cents per unit while doing so? Who could resist?
I recently was shopping for a new work light, and I heavily considered the Astro after seeing Eric O. at South Main Auto use it and sing it's praises. The legit one was about $55 on Amazon for the 40SLMAX model. Eventually, I decided on a slightly cheaper ($40) Neiko light. It lacks the nice ball swivel magnet on the end which is a little bit of a bummer but I've gotten the magnet mount it came with to work fine most of the time so far. Will I probably wish I'd gotten the Astro for the extra $15? Probably. If that's the case when the Neiko breaks I'll cough up for the Astro. I do quite want to get some of their pneumatic tools though.
www.harborfreight.com/390-lumen-magnetic-slim-bar-folding-led-work-light-63958.html I have two of these and they are great...you can get them for $25 or less with a coupon.
Thanks so much for doing this tear down.. Been looking to get one of the cheaper clone lights but will probably go with the Astro now.. I wonder if adding thermal paste to the back of the led heat sink would help with life span of the light? Seem to be begging for some..
MOSFETs confuse me. I remember ordering some for what I thought was a simple circuit design then finding out (for that specific type) once they turn on you have to maintain the voltage difference at the gate to keep them on by 'bootstrapping' them... Think I've still got them actually. Want them?
Change the resistor to increase the charging current... Lower value resistor for higher charge current, or higher value resistor for higher charge current?
Is there a searchable name and type of potentiometer that has a on off switch but into the potentiometer? One that will cut through power? Having difficulty finding suitable potentiometers that will also cut source voltage also in a single component. Specifically a thumbwheel 10k pot.
clive for the Harbor freight light is way better I'm been a technician for 35 years I bought them for my whole family on sale 18 bucks You can't beat them
Nice! Thought through, fairly durable, and a fat battery. _And space enough for a bigger one._ A magnet _and_ this eyelet. Also USB - rather normal today - instead of an unique loading bullwhip. That's how to work light! 30 years ago when my parents were young... You only had tungsten flash lights - laaaame - or these halogen builder lamps, the hot ones. THE VERY HOT ONES.
That intensity change is probably due to the parasitic capacitance in the mosfet, I was playing around with that phenomenon before, but couldn't really figure out how to get any good content out of it.
Looked for this kind of light on eBay, etc, a while ago. Just gave up after finding it impossible to distinguish the genuine article from the crap. Price didn't appear to be a guide.
I have several of the knock off lights and find they work great. I use them daily as a mechanic but find the scroll wheel a little annoying, and their charge rate is very slow. I'm really not sure I could justify the extra cost of the more expensive light honestly.
They get the bulk of their charge in the first few hours and then trickle the rest of the way, so if you put one on charge for an hour or two during the day it would be usable.
Panasonic 2.4 volt screwdriver is great. I have 2 and use them all the time. I bought nimh batteries to replace the original nicd. Also opened up the original. Its sub c. So i put in 2 tenergy 5000mah. Runs forever on a charge.
I think you could help out the mosfet by placing a thick thermal pad over it and several components. That's how they did it in my Amazon Fire Stick so it should work for a work light.
assuming there is no capacitor on the gate of the mosfet then the longish leads from the pot will act as an aerial/antenna which is bad news if you are using this under the bonnet of a running petrol engine! The chances of destroying the gate with induced high voltages is significant.
@@FarleyHillBilly 20k is quite a bit if you place this near a sparking ignition coil lead as is often the case for an automotive inspection lamp. the board looks like it has a cap on it but it doesn't appear clive drew it in.
I got a cheap copy for £12 off Amazon after watching South main auto but the 1200mAh wasn't doing it for me so in went a 5000mAh 21700 cell with a little bit of trimming
For instance, PWM should be flat out banned worldwide for vehicle lighting! I've seen a few models where manufacturers cheaped out so much that if you move your eyes _at all_ while watching their tail lights, you'd be hard pressed to be able to tell exactly where the car in front of you is at all! It's ridiculous the things some businesses get away with.
@@babybirdhome This, THIS exactly! Or when on the bus blazing past a traffic jam and seeing all the flickery taillights (and sometimes, cars in the other direction having flickering headlights....)
I have 2 of those. But must be even more "original". Charge port is in the rear. Charge indicator has 4 blue LED's. Which show state of discharge/Charge. Does not dim on charging while in use. And now been in service for approximately 2 years in a professional setting.
depends on the actual watts ..current multiplied by voltage across it..the leds are very non linear, not starting conduction 'till a fair voltage is across them, and not increasing much with current, so the voltage drop across the mosfet probably wont increase much with reduction of current..
The issue is the USBC. I have not seen a waterproof one yet. I'm not even sure it's possible without a ridiculous cost. Inductive coupling would be easier possibly.
@@gordonlawrence4749 to make the usbc style port actually waterproof/capable of not degrading it wet conditions instead of just keeping water out of the enclosure it couldn't have power between any of its pins while idle. With a larger footprint, elastomer pads or wipers could be added to keep the contacts dry until a plug was inserted, but it seems all the manufacturers see in USB c is small size instead of a relatively robust "universal" connector.
I know my 40sl has a red led when charging, a blue led when fully charged, and a flashing orangish led when the battery is low. I would guess that’s why it has three leds
Awww man, I thought it was gonna be some crazy light powered by compressed air
Yeah me too. Like it would run a little turbine on air you pump in or something like that.
#metoo googled it and found this www.larsonelectronics.com/category/593/pneumatic-light-masts ;
y are theres the ones in clives video called penumatic ? it has nothing to do with air right ?
@@AtulSohan The company is called Astro Pneumatic they also sell pneumatic tools: astrotools.com
Yeah - similar to the Air Turbine Motor-Generator JohnnyQ90 made.
That's why I clicked.
Astro for the win!! Great video Clive. I sent it to my friend who is the designer of that light. His name is Chris and of course works for Astro :)
Ah, so they did design it? And these are clones of the original? Not so sure about their oil test. Not so much the oil bit, but the washing in soapy water afterwards.
@@bigclivedotcom Chris from Astro tools designs the Astro 40sl light (as well as many other tools). I am not sure who is responsible for the clone knock offs. He is a really smart dude if you have any questions I am sure he'd be happy to answer them over an email. Let me know, I can put you in contact with him.
@@SouthMainAuto you should get a commission on each of the Astro lights sold. Got a 525 for Christmas. Just wow.
Shoutout to Eric O. for making Astro Pneumatic stock go up
Private, hence why they have quality products at reasonable prices.
The real astro is an excellent light. Love it.
@@jix177 The clone works fine also for $11.
@@GarthGoldberg Well, they're all clones of the Hazet 1979-9.0
I found South Main Auto a few months ago and have been watching a bunch of Eric's videos because he's so good on the diagnostic end of things.
Arguably the best mechanic on youtube.
Inarguably, actually.
Yup, I alos bought one of these from his recommendation.
I occasionally watch Rich Rebuilds with his Tesla's. He's cool
Eric O is a really nice bloke, he looks after his customers very well.
There isn't much he can't repair carwise, i've watched his channel for a long time.
Yep the Astro light is well thought out.
Eric O is responsible for me buying a load of car repair things I don't need to fix fridges haha.
@Matrix29bear That's interesting. Thank you for your comment!
@Matrix29bear spam bot much?
Eric O bought an astro light for me in as I couldn't get one in UK He's a great bloke. IIRC it cost me about £90 2 years ago with the shipping and import duty etc, He even enclosed an SMA T shirt with a pocket!
Holy shit you spent that much on a $50 (USD) work light? I guess that's the power of product endorsement.
Sweet, bonus pocket!
“This, that, the other thing...” (composes himself) “... but I digress! ... Have a look at this chocolate…” 😁👍
"... I should use a cordless driver."
But that IS a cordless driver! 😃
With a chocolate powered charger...
Yes always take the other one apart, i was worried you weren't gonna take it to bits. Another top notch video sir. Cheers.
+1for Eric at South Main Auto. Great channel.
yes, South Main Auto is one of the best mechanic channels
The thought of BigClive watching SMA and taking apart his work light like a mischievous kid makes me smile :~)
I always appreciate seeing comparisons of originals with Chinese knockoffs.
There's your problem lady!
-Eric O
If he can do it, you can do it.
@@RoyCousins I always get a good laugh at that line! He'll do an incredibly difficult diagnoses then throw that out at the end. Like there's anyway I could possibly do it!
At moments you went so stuttery that you seemed like you were fangirling the thing. Shows how interesting this stuff is to you. Very nice. Thanks for sharing.
AP one is not made in China. Also made from PA66, not ABS like the others. And if you take the dating cover off the battery, you'll see its Samsung or LG, not no name like the others. (I've opened both kinds)
Thank you for that info. The Astro lights are great lights.
@@ItsMrAssholeToYou ?? Who put a spurt in your drawers?
@@ItsMrAssholeToYou
'Not to be used as a gardening tool' ,that makes no sense.
Chantal?? Tell me to bugger off! But im interested in why youve been taking apart lights?? Also what is your profession? I think its great you being in this game being a Woe man :) Great stuff
You know your materials, thank you i'm impressed.
that thumbnail made me wonder if we had another baby warming-probe situation again.
I love these comparisons! I bought one of the cheapies and it’s served me very well for occasional use but the click-stop power switch has gone soft. Still works but it’s clearly the cheapness of a clone showing through!
I've never seen these.
Might have come in useful when i was bustin knuckles fer a living.
(automatic transmission specialist, 30yrs. USA)
I have an idea. How about incorporating a small magnetic motor, with a turbine attached, to act as a generator when applying compressed air pressure?
Gives 'charging' a whole pneu meaning, don't it?
Oh man... really is something great about clever analog circuits like that. I love it.
I have a Lidl version of this design for at least three years and it's been fine. They are so useful when finding things under a table or inside a device.
24:55 About the cordless driver: You are using a cordless driver- There's no cord on your driver - tell them that!
Great video upload Clive! Thank you for brightening up a dreary rainy Saturday afternoon here in the state of Misery (Missouri) I have a "very" Cheap-O version of these LED lights that doesn't have a variable resistor control, just a push button switch that selects between the long 20 LED COB and a small 6 LED COB at the very end. It came with four really cheap "Blazing Voltz" brand AA size batteries that say Super Heavy Duty - No Mercury added along the side. LOL Thank you again for making my weekend a lot better! :)
In the 1950's there was a fellow named Earl Muntz, here in the States, (Madman Muntz, for those who remember) who made a fortune by building TV sets with the absolute minimum number of components necessary to get a raster and a picture. He did this by studying the designs of 'reputable' builders, and cutting out components until the set wouldn't work anymore. This actually had a name. It became known as "muntzing.' I guess the Japanese copied American Quality control protocols, and improved upon them, while the Chinese concentrated on copying Mr Muntz...
Copying a copy? Is this, perhaps, the origin of the term 'Chinese whisper'?
Its surprising how many common channels we all watch. SMA is one I also watch and thought the light looked familiar before you even said it!
That might be a reflection on how few truly good RUclips channels there are... LOL
The main technical channels on RUclips are a fairly tight group with a lot of shared viewers.
AvE anyone?
that Astro Pneumatic 40SL light is $49.00 USD for an original version.
Love your in-depth but yet simple explanations of the entire layout and how they work. Probably learnt more about how basic components work from your videos than from my classes.
Could you maybe open up a modern smartphone sometime ?
Would love to hear your view on how they are designed and probably educate people on how the devices that run their lives actually work... If possible that is...
not gonna lie, i've often wanted to see clive take one of those to bits and then reverse engineer the circuitboard too.
Good luck reverse engineering that. The components are SO tiny, you can barely see them unless you have a strong magnifying glass/microscope.
@@simontay4851 hehe true. A complete analysis maybe impossible, whatever possible...
The modern phones are so integrated that it would be a modular review showing the separate modules.
The 33322 IC is probably the m34 LED flasher IC. The only ones I could find are through hole ones but they too have 3 pins, so it seems to be the same chip
I have a Braum. It uses an 18650 battery which can be user replaced without tools.
The Tesla uses 7,104 18650 batteries. So when replacing the batteries in your Tesla order 7,105 so you'll have an extra one for your flashlight.
The Braum only has full bright and one dim setting selected by a button not a pot. The dim is realized by switching at about 100Hz.
I've been watching you since you popped up on "WUW" on South Main Auto. You guys are great !
As soon as I saw the title I thought of South main auto, Eric O shout-out!
I found that for serious torque, you can’t beat a bit brace. There are adaptors that fit in the standard brace jaws and let one use standard-drive hex-base screwdriver bits, and others that allow 1/4” or 3/8” sockets. Way better than almost all cordless tools.
This may be your best video yet !!! Thanks!
wish I had seen this couple months ago, i got several of the cheap ones and yes it has broken wires and sloppy solder joints. good job thank you.
I have the Braun LED light (H.F.) "clone" of the Astro. Pretty much the same thing except the angle adjustment is between the light and the handle. It's worked well. About 2 yrs ago I dropped it into a bucket of coolant. Probably soaked in it for about 15 seconds till I rescued it and I still use it today.
Opened mine. Same mainboard date as the first one. But different resistor values and none of the capacitors where soldered. I added a thermal pad on the mosfet. Hopefully it will last longer with it.
What's pneumatic about them?
What's a pneumatic lamp?
Astro Pneumatic is just the name of the company. They make professional tools. They started with Pneumatic tools. Hence the name Astro Pneumatic. Little bit of copy and google goes a long way.
They make air tools also.
www.astrotools.com/
@@patburnsent Pneumatic = air powered.
Oooooh, it's an _Astro Pneumatic_ lamp.
Not an Astro _Pneumatic lamp_
I did Google it, but the website is astrotools.com
Which still implies it's a _pneumatic lamp_
@@dwarf365 They are semi-professional at best. Their tools are not top notch quality but they will get the job done well enough if you are a cheap a$$ .
We all make mistakes Big Clive I still understand what your explaining love of circuits computer repair and board repair over here
Hi I Enjoy your channel, did the two cheaper lights differ in the heat test or did they both run hot?
Driving a transistor below full on makes it a constant current source. That would keep the brightness fairly constant in this circuit because the drive voltage varies a small amount as the battery voltage drops. I use 2 diodes in battery powered items to provide a constant drive voltage to a transistor for driving led lighting at a constant 1ma. Makes for very long battery powered led with constant brightness.
Interesting that the Astro unit's battery doesn't have any circuit board attached to it, but (and I probably missed it) there doesn't seem to be that circuitry on the Astro's main board either that offers the same functionality. When it comes to saving pennies on each device, I'd assume that copying Astro's single circuit board design would be cheaper.
I wonder if the PCB would accommodate a larger output MOSFET and some large solder blobs on both sides of those 1 ohm resistors?
Perhaps under the TP4056 chip as well?
(If there’s enough room in the case.)
had no idea Clive also watches South main auto, Eric's a great guy
Jason Halverson Eric often mentions Clive in his WuW sessions. I was surprised to hear Eric shouting out to Big Clive!
As a mechanic, cannot stress enough how much nicer it is to work with good color, long lasting, flicker free, bright light. In the early days of LED handlights I went through so many to find the gooduns, but the simple rule seems to always be, you get what you pay for. that said I keep cheapies in all my vehicles, cause crap light is better than no light!!
I seem to have missed something or misunderstood. @bigclivedotcom the drive for the mosfets
was there or not a high value resistor "10k thru 1M" on gate of mosfet to ground to force open the A1SHB.
mosfets are a Voltage device if gate left floating it wont change state or at least remain at the previous state.
if you have omitted for clarity or confusion i understand.
or is their no need for said resistor because of the potentiometer must be scrolled to zero before the switch cuts connection.
it is odd that youtube finds that it wants to correct mosfet to samoset or marmosets if it is mosfets.
potentiometer is not in the dictionary as well.
The divider on the gate of the MOSFET biases it hard off if the potentiometer switch is off.
For the Astro,
U1 appears to be from Feeling Technology: datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Feeling-Tech-FP8102XR-G1_C88310.pdf
I also failed to find data on the other two devices. However with both of these having PCB marking prefixes of "U" ("U2" and "U3"), I would not expect either of them to be a Transistor.
You are right on the money Clive, the 2305 transistor has almost the double of the current capacity and half of the RDS on of the ones used on the clones.
Hey Big Clive,
When I was a tiny kid, I had a snap circuits kit; it's a kit made of electronics components encased in big hunks of plastic with clothing buttons set up to electrically connect them. One day, I was building one of the project circuits when a red LED started quietly screeching, increasing in pitch, until the diffuser violently burst open, hitting me quite hard in the forehead with a tiny piece of plastic. The LED was running on normal voltage it was designed for; the kit must have been about six or seven years old at that point.
What could have caused the LED to explode like that, considering it was only running on two AA batteries and the package it was in was designed for exactly what it was being used for?
This is a like having the name "RocketDyne Avanced Propulsion" on a wheel barrow.
Or 'Rockomax Conglomerate' on a toilet.
:wink:
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems for the scifi geeks anongst us :)
For the first unit described, it is a bit crazy to use a MOSFET in its linear region to control LED current in a battery operated portable mini work light.
You really would want a current controlled switching approach, but this would require an inductor. The current as seen by the LEDs would not be switching ON and OFF, the current would be regulated to a certain brightness level. The current regulation should be switched at somewhere above hearing, like 33kHz or higher, depending on the inductor size needed and cost. You would not see the light strobe on and off by shaking it.
The four 1 Ohm resistors in parallel will not guarantee 4x the power dissipation, but only spread the heat out evenly over the board. The heat then has to be carried to ambient in some manner at the power rate required.
I think the newest Astro model uses USB C (universal jack not keyed) and not micro USB II connector for power.
The Astro model regulating FET could easily move up in size to an SOT223 or even a DPAK, which would give many more options for features needing a larger die. Also, another strange omission on the PCB, is you would want to put a lot of thermal vias around the regulating FET with a corresponding large heat sink pad on the back.
If you use a larger power package like the DPAK you can actually stripe the thermal pad (alternating solder mask over a row of vias and a row of tinned copper) to prevent solder wicking down the vias without paying to have the vias filled. With striping under the power package you actually have a much shorter heat path and the vias are largely underneath the package, which saves space, permitting the use of the larger package.
It's kind of interesting how a simpler circuit = "cheaper" as in cheaply made, cutting corners, etc. for you electronics guys. I'm a controls engineer. If I can do the SAME thing with LESS code or simpler code that means quicker scan times and a smaller program which equates to a higher quality program (as long as it's still robust and debugged). It's interesting how those things are viewed in different circumstances.
I suppose it's not really that different. It's just that the cheapo ones often get optimized past the point of still being "robust and debugged", some of them hit the sweet spot, and some, like the Astro here, cover even some extreme corner cases that shouldn't pose a problem most of the time, but are there for the peace of mind nonetheless.
Interestinly, the data sheet for the genuine lamp (the product page Clive linked) states that they are fitted exclusively with either Samsung or Panasonic cells. The one that Clive found in this one seemed rather generically Chinese to say the least. Maybe they made the change in more recent production...?
Just became a supporter! your last video was shocking and I knew we are "Brothers from another mother" Cheers from Vancouver Island BC.
its always nice to have a great work light, preferably that has some staying power. I have been intrigued by these cob panels after watching you and have been scavenging them if possible. Im watching you do this video and pulling apart a christmas light string with one of those drivers that swaps the polarity to light a long string with alternating sequences, 8 modes. all apart I got a nice battery box for a jewel thief or solar light and a long string of leds to build with. I even saved the driver board and tested it to run on LIon.
Clive, you should take a loot at Lidl PSDD 2000 A1 light. It's the same type of light as those in this video, but the PCB has different and quite interesting two board construction.
I love my Astro 40sl so much I just bought a 65sl too. I think I like it even more. I am an auto diagnostic tech as well.
I wonder to what extent you can identify the designer or school of designers, of a circuit from idiosyncratic touches like the mosfet lamp power limiting applied during the charging cycle?
Reminds me of one of the lights we can get here in the states from everybody's favorite chinese tool import Warehouse harbor freight.. The Braun slim folding. However the difference is it's an all metal case with a removable battery. Quite a handy little light. My testing on their battery was 2300mah I went out and purchased some of the orbtronic high capacity which are 3400mah. So Rather than constantly charging through the USB port I keep an extra set of batteries in my tool bag and charge the batteries as needed. Quite handy indeed in my opinion.
The main weakness I'm seeing for the cheaper ones, at least from a mechanic perspective. If you do transmission, brake or power steering work the fluid will make that plastic extremely brittle. PA66 tends to handle those fluids a lot longer before it succumbs to the embrittlement problem. Nothing a little plastic wrap can't fix though, stuff works wonders to protect your tools from harsh oils. I just might order one of the knockoffs next time I can afford it, all of my lights are either LED lanterns or a really bulky old fashion LED bar that had the big chunky LEDs with a magnet that has seen too many metal shavings to be useful any longer.
Thanks for the teardowns! I have a chep chinese copy for car related work, pretty good so far.
Did you measure the output current to the LEDs? What's the difference between the Astro and the copies?
First search for the cheapie had the tag word "Fashion" that pretty much sums it up!
Huh, I have one of these but mine is branded Matco I got off the truck never knew there where other types lol. The matco one is also very bright and well made.
The 4 X 1.2 ohm resistors in the expensive light will have a lower resistance than the 2 X 1 ohm resistor used in the cheaper light. This could explain the higher light intensity of the premium light.
I think you need to watch the video again...
The 2305 (Si2305DS) MOSFET in the original is specified for a gate turn-on voltage as low as 1.8V (at 0.108 Ohms drain-source resistance). Cheapest price in volume (>1000) I could find: $0.16. The A1SHB (Si2301DS) in the Chinese clones is specified for a gate turn-on voltage as low as 2.5V (at 0.180 Ohms drain-source resistance) - at 1.8V the A1SHB it basically off. Cheapest price in volume (>1000) I could find: $0.14. Every Chinese engineer who's worth his or her money would of course swap those parts to shave off 2 cents. I mean it's simply to tempting: Putting in a part that barely meets the requirements, slowly cooking off in operation and making 2 cents per unit while doing so? Who could resist?
Wouldn't a switch mode power supply avoid the problem of flicker by providing either a constant voltage or current via a LC filtered output?
I recently was shopping for a new work light, and I heavily considered the Astro after seeing Eric O. at South Main Auto use it and sing it's praises. The legit one was about $55 on Amazon for the 40SLMAX model. Eventually, I decided on a slightly cheaper ($40) Neiko light. It lacks the nice ball swivel magnet on the end which is a little bit of a bummer but I've gotten the magnet mount it came with to work fine most of the time so far. Will I probably wish I'd gotten the Astro for the extra $15? Probably. If that's the case when the Neiko breaks I'll cough up for the Astro. I do quite want to get some of their pneumatic tools though.
www.harborfreight.com/390-lumen-magnetic-slim-bar-folding-led-work-light-63958.html I have two of these and they are great...you can get them for $25 or less with a coupon.
Got the cheap one of these and it's been working great daily for the past year very handy
Thanks so much for doing this tear down.. Been looking to get one of the cheaper clone lights but will probably go with the Astro now.. I wonder if adding thermal paste to the back of the led heat sink would help with life span of the light? Seem to be begging for some..
MOSFETs confuse me. I remember ordering some for what I thought was a simple circuit design then finding out (for that specific type) once they turn on you have to maintain the voltage difference at the gate to keep them on by 'bootstrapping' them...
Think I've still got them actually. Want them?
Change the resistor to increase the charging current... Lower value resistor for higher charge current, or higher value resistor for higher charge current?
Is there a searchable name and type of potentiometer that has a on off switch but into the potentiometer?
One that will cut through power?
Having difficulty finding suitable potentiometers that will also cut source voltage also in a single component. Specifically a thumbwheel 10k pot.
Oh I've never heard of the brand I figured it was hoping it was gonna be a pneumatic powered light.... Hahaha
Amazing! Thanks for sharing and taking your time to explain it!
Clive, are the backs of the cases interchangeable? If so then there's a cheep way to replace a broken one of someone bought the expensive one.
2305 = Si2305 mosfet (same as Si2301 but lower on rDS = 0.052 Ohm)
clive for the Harbor freight light is way better I'm been a technician for 35 years I bought them for my whole family on sale 18 bucks You can't beat them
I bought several at Christmas myself. At about $20 I feel like I am stealing from HF every time I walk out the door with one. Lol
Intriguing how the chips are different on both the Ebay lights
It makes sense not to use pwm dimming in this case due to moving parts that may look stationary
I just found one of these in the road, slightly run over and a couple of leds gone. After charging it is pretty damn bright. I like it.
Someone somewhere has left their light in an engine bay after working on a car. Maybe making it yellow would be a design improvement.
What's with the cob blob on the astro? Anything significant?
That Magenbrot is some great stuff. I grew up with it.
Awesome, Clive! I just saw one like that for like 14 euros on Amazon the other day and was wondering how it stands against the Astro one. Thanks!
I like the use of the magnets as screw holder.
Nice! Thought through, fairly durable, and a fat battery. _And space enough for a bigger one._
A magnet _and_ this eyelet. Also USB - rather normal today - instead of an unique loading bullwhip.
That's how to work light!
30 years ago when my parents were young... You only had tungsten flash lights - laaaame - or these halogen builder lamps, the hot ones. THE VERY HOT ONES.
That intensity change is probably due to the parasitic capacitance in the mosfet, I was playing around with that phenomenon before, but couldn't really figure out how to get any good content out of it.
I mean, the delay in the change after you unplug it.
Looked for this kind of light on eBay, etc, a while ago. Just gave up after finding it impossible to distinguish the genuine article from the crap. Price didn't appear to be a guide.
I have several of the knock off lights and find they work great. I use them daily as a mechanic but find the scroll wheel a little annoying, and their charge rate is very slow. I'm really not sure I could justify the extra cost of the more expensive light honestly.
They get the bulk of their charge in the first few hours and then trickle the rest of the way, so if you put one on charge for an hour or two during the day it would be usable.
@@bigclivedotcom Thanks mate! I bought a couple of them at the same time so I just cycle them out usually.
Panasonic 2.4 volt screwdriver is great. I have 2 and use them all the time. I bought nimh batteries to replace the original nicd. Also opened up the original. Its sub c. So i put in 2 tenergy 5000mah. Runs forever on a charge.
Can you make it work by jumpering from the on/off switch or dimmer knob to the mosfet where you jumpered over the resister to test?
For a total bypass you could use the switch to jumper from the battery positive straight to the resistors that limit current through the LEDs.
I think you could help out the mosfet by placing a thick thermal pad over it and several components.
That's how they did it in my Amazon Fire Stick so it should work for a work light.
assuming there is no capacitor on the gate of the mosfet then the longish leads from the pot will act as an aerial/antenna which is bad news if you are using this under the bonnet of a running petrol engine!
The chances of destroying the gate with induced high voltages is significant.
The gate has less than 20k to the supply rails.
@@FarleyHillBilly 20k is quite a bit if you place this near a sparking ignition coil lead as is often the case for an automotive inspection lamp. the board looks like it has a cap on it but it doesn't appear clive drew it in.
There was a cap on the MOSFET gate. I forgot to draw it on the schematic.
astro makes great products. my choice of worklight (i am an automotive service technician) is saber from ATD. the one i have is $109 each
I got a cheap copy for £12 off Amazon after watching South main auto but the 1200mAh wasn't doing it for me so in went a 5000mAh 21700 cell with a little bit of trimming
We need more products that don't use PWM. I find flickery lights quite annoying.
For instance, PWM should be flat out banned worldwide for vehicle lighting! I've seen a few models where manufacturers cheaped out so much that if you move your eyes _at all_ while watching their tail lights, you'd be hard pressed to be able to tell exactly where the car in front of you is at all! It's ridiculous the things some businesses get away with.
@@babybirdhome This, THIS exactly! Or when on the bus blazing past a traffic jam and seeing all the flickery taillights (and sometimes, cars in the other direction having flickering headlights....)
I have 2 of those. But must be even more "original". Charge port is in the rear. Charge indicator has 4 blue LED's. Which show state of discharge/Charge. Does not dim on charging while in use. And now been in service for approximately 2 years in a professional setting.
Wouldn't mosfet heat up more if it's not saturated with low gate voltage? The heat will be more on low intensity while charging.
depends on the actual watts ..current multiplied by voltage across it..the leds are very non linear, not starting conduction 'till a fair voltage is across them, and not increasing much with current, so the voltage drop across the mosfet probably wont increase much with reduction of current..
will also depend on the cell volts,
Instead of the mosfet, could you use an LM317 configured as a current source to control LED brightness?
you could but you need to watch out for drop out voltage across it.
Same design, with an 18650, and a waterproof / solvent proof usbc port for charging would be great.
The issue is the USBC. I have not seen a waterproof one yet. I'm not even sure it's possible without a ridiculous cost. Inductive coupling would be easier possibly.
@@gordonlawrence4749 te connectivity makes them. Solvent resistance is hard, but waterproof is easy.
@@RobertSzasz I will have to take a look at those thanks.
@@gordonlawrence4749 to make the usbc style port actually waterproof/capable of not degrading it wet conditions instead of just keeping water out of the enclosure it couldn't have power between any of its pins while idle. With a larger footprint, elastomer pads or wipers could be added to keep the contacts dry until a plug was inserted, but it seems all the manufacturers see in USB c is small size instead of a relatively robust "universal" connector.
I know my 40sl has a red led when charging, a blue led when fully charged, and a flashing orangish led when the battery is low. I would guess that’s why it has three leds
I don't actually mind the Digikey ad, it's a nice five second jingle before bigclive's video
I have Adblock plus, so I missed it.
They're actually quite nice adverts. Good music and neat graphic overlay.