There is a difference between being a cynic, and doing something cynically. I don't think Diogenes did cynical, I think he considered himself to be it, and its surrounding thought that.
Not necessarily, when people tell me "you shouldn't give money to the homeless, they'll spend it on drugs!" I always tell them, "Why, that's exactly what I was going to do!"
The cynic's claim that all non human animals are self sufficient is incorrect. Ants, bees, lions, wolves, most primates including humans, etc are social species with their own particular social norms. Also, why would they beg for food when they could just steal it? Respect for property rights is a social norm, which is something they reject, so...
The lineage of cynics did not die out.. its just that the philosophy spread into the masses and it would go against itself to name a single one. You can be the next cynic, i am a cynic.
The meaning has changed over time, initially referring to simply being like a dog, then referring to a specific philosophy, then referring to hypocrites that espoused a pro-poor philosophy but lived in wealth, until finally it took on its modern meaning of someone who thinks everyone is only acting in self interest.
@@CarneadesOfCyrene so I’ll claim a semantic victory and our next word to debate will be “petty” haha Love the channel. So much to learn! But it makes for great activity during walks.
Well done. I am on the road to Diogenes via Thoreau. I married only for love, and our only ambition is to live like a coyote. A dog is too cilvilized now.
Cynics argued for self sufficiency both in the sense of being able to live in nature, as well as rejecting social norms. To the Cynic, anyone that relies on the structures and rules of civilization (laws, norms, etc.) is weak and unnatural, while the Cynic has the freedom to not care if you think they are a parasite, because such ideas are a product of civilization. They might argue that they beg not beause they must, but because they are simply free to ignore societal ideas like responsibility. We might think this is bad for society as a whole, but it is hard to see how a Cynic that lives off of the scraps of society is importantly different from the equally parasitic Greek aristocrats who lived in luxury. The Cynic just admits that a meritocracy is a sham while the aristocrat embraces the lie to justify his power.
@@CarneadesOfCyrene well I didn't mean "parasite" as a moral condemnation, I mean in the literal sense, they had to depend on other people to give them food to live, and they did not produce anything for themselves. I suppose you could say a bad aristocrat may be similar, but that's more social commentary slipping in. The proper function of aristocrats, in the theoretical sense, is to structure, administer, and protect society. Even the best beggar doesn't really do much. But I think that was well summed up by the quote "if we were all Cynics there would be no one left to beg from"
There are imumerable outside forces that pressure us to conform in various ways. I often feel I can't think, decide, or act because outside forces do this for me (often to my detriment). Yet to even learn to speak or adopt the cynics' philosophy (or even survive sometimes) I need the help of others or of society in general. So to be a cynic may involve taking the necessary benefits of society and then abandoning it. This might appear selfish but I prefer death to total or almost total conformity. I am reminded here of the film "Into the Wilderness". Perhaps I can't live with or without society. Anyway, these days I prefer less of it.
Why does modern day internet trolling have bad connotations ? If people are prevented from trolling on internet, they will eventually start trolling on streets albeit in different and dangerous forms. Modern day universal nihilism begs nihilistic actions to maintain functionality, coherence and sanity of people. Trolling is just the nihilism in action.
@@sudipkumarroy3790 There is no universal definition of virtue, actions that might give you the feeling of being unvirtuous might give somebody else the feeling of being acceptable. That is what you get when you kill the god, everybody becomes his own god and decides by himself what is virtuous.
@@philosophyversuslogic I am not defending trolls, I hate trolls. I am just presenting the implications of modern secular society, when while growing up people are taught to question everything, they grow up questioning everything, and as there are no universal answers to any question, people end up finding their own answers, answers which are convenient for them, and some people eventually find that trolling is acceptable as long as it is fun for them. Being nice to each other can not be legalized, you cannot punish people for not being nice to others, in earlier times, being nice to each other was mandatory because that was considered absolute truth, if your were not nice to others either god was gonna punish you or karma was gonna punish you, now nobody is there to punish you, you are as free as a god, so some people find happiness in trolling people and you have no right to tell them to be not happy.
@@saimbhat6243 I do apologize If I made you think of me as an accusator of you. I didn't have an intention to blame you or object you about the trolling. I agree with you about such a policy. Moreover, I meet those trolls almost everyday online. As a Ukrainian, those kremlinbots are serous trouble for my country via online.
I expect their were some, but I do not know their names. Ancient female philosophers I am aware of include Arete (a leader of the Cyrenaic school), Aspasia (possibly the inspiration for Diotima in Plato's Symposium), Hipparchia (the Cynic), and Hypatia (a neoplatonist). I have been toying with doing a series on ancient female philosophers, but I am still doing research, maybe I will find some skeptics in there. :)
@@CarneadesOfCyrene Sextus Empiricus - presumably one of your favourite authors - wrote about many pre-Socrates philosophers as skeptics. Indeed, some of them might be considered as being skeptics. By this logic, such a woman as Theano (Θεανώ) is one of candidates for this. Sextus wrote enough about Pythagorean skepticism. As a true apprentice of skeptic school I guess you've got too many talents to make Theano be skeptical.
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"If we were all cynics, there would be no one to beg from."
There is a difference between being a cynic, and doing something cynically. I don't think Diogenes did cynical, I think he considered himself to be it, and its surrounding thought that.
Not necessarily, when people tell me "you shouldn't give money to the homeless, they'll spend it on drugs!" I always tell them, "Why, that's exactly what I was going to do!"
No need to beg if everyone were a cynic.
The cynic's claim that all non human animals are self sufficient is incorrect. Ants, bees, lions, wolves, most primates including humans, etc are social species with their own particular social norms.
Also, why would they beg for food when they could just steal it? Respect for property rights is a social norm, which is something they reject, so...
My favorites. I praise you and your efforts as a form of encouragement.
Thanks!
The lineage of cynics did not die out.. its just that the philosophy spread into the masses and it would go against itself to name a single one. You can be the next cynic, i am a cynic.
The OG trolls
Very much so!
Good video. Concise with no frills
Thanks!
I like your style, feels authentic.
Me and mom both were wrong about this word lol
The meaning has changed over time, initially referring to simply being like a dog, then referring to a specific philosophy, then referring to hypocrites that espoused a pro-poor philosophy but lived in wealth, until finally it took on its modern meaning of someone who thinks everyone is only acting in self interest.
@@CarneadesOfCyrene so I’ll claim a semantic victory and our next word to debate will be “petty” haha
Love the channel. So much to learn! But it makes for great activity during walks.
u deserve more subscribers
Thanks!
Well done. I am on the road to Diogenes via Thoreau. I married only for love, and our only ambition is to live like a coyote. A dog is too cilvilized now.
you'd love crates and hipparchia - dog coupling ☻ (i'm the biggest fan of hipparchia)
@@horseheadkid yep. I have a book about them by my chair right now. Cheers.
I guess there is some deep irony in Cynics advocating for self-sufficiency when the archetypal one was literally a social parasite.
Cynics argued for self sufficiency both in the sense of being able to live in nature, as well as rejecting social norms. To the Cynic, anyone that relies on the structures and rules of civilization (laws, norms, etc.) is weak and unnatural, while the Cynic has the freedom to not care if you think they are a parasite, because such ideas are a product of civilization. They might argue that they beg not beause they must, but because they are simply free to ignore societal ideas like responsibility. We might think this is bad for society as a whole, but it is hard to see how a Cynic that lives off of the scraps of society is importantly different from the equally parasitic Greek aristocrats who lived in luxury. The Cynic just admits that a meritocracy is a sham while the aristocrat embraces the lie to justify his power.
@@CarneadesOfCyrene well I didn't mean "parasite" as a moral condemnation, I mean in the literal sense, they had to depend on other people to give them food to live, and they did not produce anything for themselves. I suppose you could say a bad aristocrat may be similar, but that's more social commentary slipping in. The proper function of aristocrats, in the theoretical sense, is to structure, administer, and protect society. Even the best beggar doesn't really do much.
But I think that was well summed up by the quote "if we were all Cynics there would be no one left to beg from"
Bro! Write a book. You are hilarious!
I just published a book! www.amazon.com/Are-All-Lives-Equal-Philosophy/dp/B0B4SJH2Q9
There are imumerable outside forces that pressure us to conform in various ways.
I often feel I can't think, decide, or act because outside forces do this for me (often to my detriment).
Yet to even learn to speak or adopt the cynics' philosophy (or even survive sometimes) I need the help of others or of society in general.
So to be a cynic may involve taking the necessary benefits of society and then abandoning it.
This might appear selfish but I prefer death to total or almost total conformity.
I am reminded here of the film "Into the Wilderness".
Perhaps I can't live with or without society.
Anyway, these days I prefer less of it.
1:33 Ahh, I see.. so... cynics are furries!
I wonder how many people in the comments will post quotes from people like Carlin and Hemingway so they can feel smart?
“As a writer, you should not judge, you should understand.”
//Ernest Hemingway
Why does modern day internet trolling have bad connotations ?
If people are prevented from trolling on internet, they will eventually start trolling on streets albeit in different and dangerous forms. Modern day universal nihilism begs nihilistic actions to maintain functionality, coherence and sanity of people. Trolling is just the nihilism in action.
Why do people have to troll. Thats an unvirtuous behaviour. If they have an opinion then let them write it on Internet with all respect and civility.
What about commiting a suicide act? It's not impossible. Trolls might cause it, especially if the category of their victims are innocents.
@@sudipkumarroy3790 There is no universal definition of virtue, actions that might give you the feeling of being unvirtuous might give somebody else the feeling of being acceptable. That is what you get when you kill the god, everybody becomes his own god and decides by himself what is virtuous.
@@philosophyversuslogic I am not defending trolls, I hate trolls. I am just presenting the implications of modern secular society, when while growing up people are taught to question everything, they grow up questioning everything, and as there are no universal answers to any question, people end up finding their own answers, answers which are convenient for them, and some people eventually find that trolling is acceptable as long as it is fun for them.
Being nice to each other can not be legalized, you cannot punish people for not being nice to others, in earlier times, being nice to each other was mandatory because that was considered absolute truth, if your were not nice to others either god was gonna punish you or karma was gonna punish you, now nobody is there to punish you, you are as free as a god, so some people find happiness in trolling people and you have no right to tell them to be not happy.
@@saimbhat6243 I do apologize If I made you think of me as an accusator of you. I didn't have an intention to blame you or object you about the trolling.
I agree with you about such a policy. Moreover, I meet those trolls almost everyday online. As a Ukrainian, those kremlinbots are serous trouble for my country via online.
Troll
Yep!
sinope - not sigh-nope, but sin-o-pey
hipparchia - arch like the curve, not ark
Cynicism isn’t about being virtuous for me.
Hipparchia was Cynicist? This wondered me to think were there among skeptics any woman?
I expect their were some, but I do not know their names. Ancient female philosophers I am aware of include Arete (a leader of the Cyrenaic school), Aspasia (possibly the inspiration for Diotima in Plato's Symposium), Hipparchia (the Cynic), and Hypatia (a neoplatonist). I have been toying with doing a series on ancient female philosophers, but I am still doing research, maybe I will find some skeptics in there. :)
@@CarneadesOfCyrene Sextus Empiricus - presumably one of your favourite authors - wrote about many pre-Socrates philosophers as skeptics. Indeed, some of them might be considered as being skeptics. By this logic, such a woman as Theano (Θεανώ) is one of candidates for this. Sextus wrote enough about Pythagorean skepticism. As a true apprentice of skeptic school I guess you've got too many talents to make Theano be skeptical.
Goes hard