This was my first printer on my S-100 selfbuild computer back in 1978. The noise! But it worked for me and my company until 1983. It used to be from a Dutch newspaper
I have commented on your teletype vids before. I was in the Navy and had dozens like them to keep up and keep running. I was present the morning the Gulf War kicked off. I was in an office and all the teletypes started printing. Dozens. We knew something was up. We could hear the ones up stairs printing too. These were military grade units. Solid iron and steel. Very heavy. Shook the floor.
In the late 1970s worked in a newspaper newsroom where about five of them ran 24 hours a day. When something big happened, they would all stop printing for a few moments, silent except for the motors spinning, which was really creepy when you were so accustomed to hearing them all the time. The. The bells would all ring and they'd start printing again all at once, and you'd go in to see what had happened. Three bells was big news, five bells was something major such as a tornado, and we got eight bells when the Pope died...
I love your work. I am utterly fascinated by the heavy mechanical emphasis on this particular generation of machine. I came in about 10-15 years later. These beasts were still lurking around but no one had the courage to look inside. Please keep it going.
I remember using one of these when I started work in 1975. Loading a 3K program into a DEC PDP8E took close to 10 minutes - a blistering 110 baud, yes we thought it was very slow even back then. I worked on the in-house solution using compact cassette player that could manage 600 baud in 1978 .
Ahhh. Ca me rappelles de vieux souvenirs. Il y avait un Télétype identique (ou un modèle très proche) au lycée dans les années 80. Il servait de poste principal à un mini-ordinateur Télémécanique T1600, une armoire pleine de spaghettis, équipée d'un disque dur de la taille d'une pizza et qui faisait le bruit d'un jet au décollage. Le Télétype était sur son stand et le tout gigotait comme s'il y avait un séisme quand le marteau imprimait des lignes de code. L'accès au Télétype était "réservé aux profs" mais dès qu'ils avaient quitté la pièce on en profitait pour enregistrer nos tous premiers programmes en BASIC sur ruban perforé. Les autres terminaux étaient de vieux terminaux de base comme on en trouvait dans les aéroports ou la FNAC, sauf un terminal graphique vectoriel Tektronix 4010 encore plus "reservé" que le Télétype. Ensuite on a été doté de Micral et l'accès au Télémécanique est devenu bien plus démocratique, mais on s'en fichait : on allait alors au "centre mondial informatique" jouer sur des Apple II.
When I started work in 1971 we had ASR33s attached to DEC LINC-8s; as I remember we had a specialist engineer in every 6 months to maintain them. I'm amazed you find yours in such good condition!
For the rust, use EvapoRust. It's good for this and you can just soak a rag and put it over the afflicted area instead of dipping the whole thing (thus dismantling it bare).
Here's my opening idea for the TV series; " A crack team of IT superhero's solve crimes using 50yr old technology" It's like a A-Team reboot but with tape drives and punch cards. ;)
My high school had a 33 hooked up to an isma 8000 and I learned BASIC on that combination using the tape punch to “save” my programs. My best one was a program that plotted functions with ASCI characters. I thought is was all very cool. Thanks, Charlie.
Ah, those barrel keys! We had a model 33 ASR as the console for the Univac ANYUK-5V computer we had aboard the USS Jason AR8 back in the middle 1970's. The 5V was built out of discrete transistor logic, with core memory, four tape drives, a line printer, and a huge card carder/punch machine. The computer ran supply and work accounting programs, and was programmable either in assembler or Cobol. I wrote a little Cobol program to produce a list of personnel which the Captain greatly appreciated.
I can never be "done" with teletypes! I just missed using an 8-bit teletype at college (they ditched it and their Data General Nova the year before I started) so they'll always be this special "magical" technology for me... Keep the teletypes coming. :)
Mine to in the 70's at Mander college in the UK and later on as the main terminal for PR1MES - though the ones we had where metal cased and not plastic
You can use the vintage vehicle restorer's rust removal trick by putting the part in straight plain vinegar (whatever is cheapest at the supermarket) and leave for a few hours or overnight. Parts will come out looking like a shiny tin can. Neutralise the weak acid of the vinegar with a dip in baking soda solution then wash, clean and dry thoroughly before applying a protective coat. Molasses also works, diluted 1:4 with water but is a bit stronger. Or you can get rust converter which has a plasticiser, but you then get iron phosphate as a whiteish patina instead of the clean metal that vinegar leaves. Plus you can dip your hands in the vinegar (it's pretty mild) without it taking your skin off.
The problem with vinegar is that it will eat good metal as happily as it eats rust, consequently it needs an attentive eye. A chelating rust remover would be a much safer (and slower) bet.
I used to have a later version of one of those in my youth connected to a Z80 system derived from a ZX81!. It self destructed when the rubber hammer wore through in the middle of a long listing and by the time I noticed it had worn off all the type face from the cylinder, so I skipped it in the early 80's. Something to be wary of, check the rubber is good.
Yay, a new CuriousMarc epic! I don't expect anything to top the AGC restoration (which ought to be edited together for theatrical release) but I loved the whole Model 19 series and am looking forward to this!
This peripheral was my first exposure to computing in 8th grade. It was a Teletype KSR 33 connected to an Anderson Jacobson acoustic coupler modem. The outer case of the modem was made of wood. We dial up the phone number of an HP 2000 minicomputer located at the opposite end of the city and inserted the handset into the two round rubber holes of the modem. images.computerhistory.org/revonline/images/500003067-03-01.jpg?w=600 At the speed of 110 baud, we got to play Blackjack and Star Trek 73 and program in HP BASIC. Pleasant memories.
In 1971 "The Computer Era" meant that every home would have teletype 33. I did not look forward to that, because of the noise and need for constant maintenance. Because US-ASCII did not have "Ä" or "Ö", one soon learned to vocalize letters "[" , "\", "{" and "|" accordinly. In Unix environment the pipe-character "|" is still provounced as "ÖÖÖÖ" among older folks.
Best of luck on restoring this. Many years ago I started as a tech fixing these. Mainly Mdl 32s the 5 bit version but some 33s. Remember all to well the bend the metal bit adjustments. Trust me at a certain point these things became unrepairable and we're scrapped.
The fourth computer I worked on (after the IBM 407, the Datatron 205, and the IBM 1401) was a Burroughs B 2500. It used a KSR 33 as the system console. I used those things on various Burroughs machines for close to 10 years before they were finally replaced with a TD830 screen terminal.
Evaporust works pretty good for removing rust - it is basically oxalic acid. It's safe, but makes hydrogen sulfide as it removes the rust - so it stinks. I surprised the belts and plastic parts held up.
I looked just now at the machine. Have you noticed the red wheel with the breakable flaps? It was (an OTP ROM) for sending a preprogrammed ID message. Correct?
I feel bad. Many years ago I threw three working ASR-33's along with boxes of new spare parts in the dump years ago. I got tired of moving them around.
Mental exercise: Yes, of course the Model 33 is not as heavy-duty as the Model 15 or 19 from the previous series. So: Suppose our President announced that the furriners were stealing all our secrets with their fancy-pants electronics, so he was going to reopen the original Teletype factory in Chicago and start making Model 15s again so we can communicate using good old American (and French) technology. How much do you think one of those would have to sell for today? $100,000? $200,000?
ASCII is 7 bits but the 33ASR can only do upper case, right? Wouldn't that make it 6 bits? Great video by the way. I can almost smell the oil and mechanics :-)
I believe that's correct, uppercase only. I was wondering myself. Does the keyboard produces the correct lower case and upper case variations? And what will the printer do when it receives lower case? I'll have to check that out once we get it going.
@@CuriousMarc Aha. Wikipedia says: "The Model 33 used the seven-bit upper-case only ASCII code, also known as CCITT International Telegraphic Alphabet No. 5, with one (even) parity bit and two stop bits."
@@JacGoudsmit Just tried the keyboard part, and it will only transmit upper case ASCII codes. Actually, the shift key will lock out the alphabetic letters, you can't even use it with these. The receiving part still does not work, so I don't know yet.
@@CuriousMarc Right. So it generates ASCII codes up to 0x5F but not 0x60 to 0x7E. I seem to remember there is a DEL key that generates 0x7F, or some other way to punch all holes of a paper tape which is used to correct mistakes. So anyway, that's 7 bits, not 6. I don't remember what it prints if you send it lower case ASCII characters: I expect that it converts them to upper case but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't print anything. The serial protocol uses a parity bit and 2 stop bits but the parity bit is not written to the paper tape. The baud rate is something like 110 or 150.
Machines like that always seem to satisfy me.. The engineering is soo good and innovative.. now everything looks the same.. companies just copy one from another..
@@paulcohen1555 I worked on a couple of models of HP tape drives back then. I think the first one was the Datamec 3030 series that HP had recently bought. That was about 1969. A few years later, they came out with their own, completely redesigned, of course. That was back in the days when drives were stand alone machines, about 6 feet tall. And there were rows and rows of them in the "computer room". Can't find any record of them on the internet, though. If it happened before the internet, it didn't happen, I guess.
I was wondering about the motor required to receive 7 bits at 110 baud, and I think it is one of these, rated at "1/12 or 1/20 horsepower" :D www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/bsps/bsp/570series/570-220-100TC-Iss4.pdf Now it would be possible to calculate, at what range an actual horse would be more efficient at delivering a bulk of messages.
BTW, Mike Douglas (deramp5113) built a 20mA Loop / RS-232 Board for the Teletype 33 deramp.com/tty_adapter.html 2018 video in its usage with his Teletype 33 ruclips.net/video/PNbo46Yw92M/видео.html
It is a serial terminal. You can hook them to a linux box as a real tty (tty stands for teletypewriter). If you wanted, you could use it to configure your cisco router :)
Or if you have the right kind of interface you can hook it up to a modern computer and sync it to a RSS feed and make it print the news. I think I've seen it on RUclips
The 33 was the teletype of choice for our PDP 8E. We spent many a night in the lab writing PAL8 assembly on the ASR 33. I had my own 33 later on and had it interfaced to my VIC 20 as my printer. It was a great showpiece. Sadly it went to the graveyard around 1990....
I think the WRU drum was programmed by cutting pins or something (we had some type 33's at my college to teach us about serial communications but I've never seen one on the inside). Write-once, read many times :)
This was my first printer on my S-100 selfbuild computer back in 1978. The noise! But it worked for me and my company until 1983. It used to be from a Dutch newspaper
I have commented on your teletype vids before. I was in the Navy and had dozens like them to keep up and keep running. I was present the morning the Gulf War kicked off. I was in an office and all the teletypes started printing. Dozens. We knew something was up. We could hear the ones up stairs printing too. These were military grade units. Solid iron and steel. Very heavy. Shook the floor.
In the late 1970s worked in a newspaper newsroom where about five of them ran 24 hours a day. When something big happened, they would all stop printing for a few moments, silent except for the motors spinning, which was really creepy when you were so accustomed to hearing them all the time. The. The bells would all ring and they'd start printing again all at once, and you'd go in to see what had happened. Three bells was big news, five bells was something major such as a tornado, and we got eight bells when the Pope died...
I love your work. I am utterly fascinated by the heavy mechanical emphasis on this particular generation of machine. I came in about 10-15 years later. These beasts were still lurking around but no one had the courage to look inside.
Please keep it going.
I remember using one of these when I started work in 1975.
Loading a 3K program into a DEC PDP8E took close to 10 minutes - a blistering 110 baud, yes we thought it was very slow even back then.
I worked on the in-house solution using compact cassette player that could manage 600 baud in 1978 .
now that I've reach me weekly dose of teletyping I feel much better!
Ahhh. Ca me rappelles de vieux souvenirs. Il y avait un Télétype identique (ou un modèle très proche) au lycée dans les années 80. Il servait de poste principal à un mini-ordinateur Télémécanique T1600, une armoire pleine de spaghettis, équipée d'un disque dur de la taille d'une pizza et qui faisait le bruit d'un jet au décollage. Le Télétype était sur son stand et le tout gigotait comme s'il y avait un séisme quand le marteau imprimait des lignes de code. L'accès au Télétype était "réservé aux profs" mais dès qu'ils avaient quitté la pièce on en profitait pour enregistrer nos tous premiers programmes en BASIC sur ruban perforé. Les autres terminaux étaient de vieux terminaux de base comme on en trouvait dans les aéroports ou la FNAC, sauf un terminal graphique vectoriel Tektronix 4010 encore plus "reservé" que le Télétype. Ensuite on a été doté de Micral et l'accès au Télémécanique est devenu bien plus démocratique, mais on s'en fichait : on allait alors au "centre mondial informatique" jouer sur des Apple II.
4:32 Oh man, Mr. Carlson is going to be very upset that they did not change that yellow wax capacitor in the power supply :-D
We'll wait for it to electro-boom.
Nicely done!
When I started work in 1971 we had ASR33s attached to DEC LINC-8s; as I remember we had a specialist engineer in every 6 months to maintain them. I'm amazed you find yours in such good condition!
Thanks Marc & team. It’s a wet rainy morning here in England so breakfast with you has cheered me up.
Oh boy oh boy oh boy, another CuriousMarc Teletype series! I enjoyed the last one quite a lot, very pleased to see another one happen!
For the rust, use EvapoRust. It's good for this and you can just soak a rag and put it over the afflicted area instead of dipping the whole thing (thus dismantling it bare).
I remember using one of these for code dev, including the tape punch, until we got the floppy working. That was when they were almost still current.
Here's my opening idea for the TV series; " A crack team of IT superhero's solve crimes using 50yr old technology" It's like a A-Team reboot but with tape drives and punch cards. ;)
My high school had a 33 hooked up to an isma 8000 and I learned BASIC on that combination using the tape punch to “save” my programs. My best one was a program that plotted functions with ASCI characters. I thought is was all very cool. Thanks, Charlie.
Ah.. learning BASIC with one of these in 1974
Me too, but in 1975.
Ah, those barrel keys! We had a model 33 ASR as the console for the Univac ANYUK-5V computer we had aboard the USS Jason AR8 back in the middle 1970's. The 5V was built out of discrete transistor logic, with core memory, four tape drives, a line printer, and a huge card carder/punch machine. The computer ran supply and work accounting programs, and was programmable either in assembler or Cobol. I wrote a little Cobol program to produce a list of personnel which the Captain greatly appreciated.
Renovations at Marc's house may be completed by 2025
Hey, building a time machine takes some time, but it's worth the option to get brand new "old stock" components :) .
I can never be "done" with teletypes! I just missed using an 8-bit teletype at college (they ditched it and their Data General Nova the year before I started) so they'll always be this special "magical" technology for me... Keep the teletypes coming. :)
This was my first "computer interface" back in high school (attached to a DEC PDP-11/20)
Mine to in the 70's at Mander college in the UK and later on as the main terminal for PR1MES - though the ones we had where metal cased and not plastic
You can use the vintage vehicle restorer's rust removal trick by putting the part in straight plain vinegar (whatever is cheapest at the supermarket) and leave for a few hours or overnight. Parts will come out looking like a shiny tin can. Neutralise the weak acid of the vinegar with a dip in baking soda solution then wash, clean and dry thoroughly before applying a protective coat. Molasses also works, diluted 1:4 with water but is a bit stronger. Or you can get rust converter which has a plasticiser, but you then get iron phosphate as a whiteish patina instead of the clean metal that vinegar leaves.
Plus you can dip your hands in the vinegar (it's pretty mild) without it taking your skin off.
The problem with vinegar is that it will eat good metal as happily as it eats rust, consequently it needs an attentive eye. A chelating rust remover would be a much safer (and slower) bet.
I'm sure I've got some old paper tape lying around that I punched ~40 years ago. Nice to hear that noise again!
Glad to see you working on a 33, Marc! Best wishes! Mark
I used to have a later version of one of those in my youth connected to a Z80 system derived from a ZX81!. It self destructed when the rubber hammer wore through in the middle of a long listing and by the time I noticed it had worn off all the type face from the cylinder, so I skipped it in the early 80's. Something to be wary of, check the rubber is good.
Great video as always Marc. Looking forward for the next parts :)
Yay, a new CuriousMarc epic! I don't expect anything to top the AGC restoration (which ought to be edited together for theatrical release) but I loved the whole Model 19 series and am looking forward to this!
We used to have one of those on the bridge of our ship (the MV Geosearcher), which was hooked into the INMARSAT communications system!
This peripheral was my first exposure to computing in 8th grade. It was a Teletype KSR 33 connected to an Anderson Jacobson acoustic coupler modem. The outer case of the modem was made of wood. We dial up the phone number of an HP 2000 minicomputer located at the opposite end of the city and inserted the handset into the two round rubber holes of the modem. images.computerhistory.org/revonline/images/500003067-03-01.jpg?w=600 At the speed of 110 baud, we got to play Blackjack and Star Trek 73 and program in HP BASIC. Pleasant memories.
In 1971 "The Computer Era" meant that every home would have teletype 33. I did not look forward to that, because of the noise and need for constant maintenance. Because US-ASCII did not have "Ä" or "Ö", one soon learned to vocalize letters "[" , "\", "{" and "|" accordinly. In Unix environment the pipe-character "|" is still provounced as "ÖÖÖÖ" among older folks.
Oh my.
Best of luck on restoring this. Many years ago I started as a tech fixing these. Mainly Mdl 32s the 5 bit version but some 33s. Remember all to well the bend the metal bit adjustments. Trust me at a certain point these things became unrepairable and we're scrapped.
The fourth computer I worked on (after the IBM 407, the Datatron 205, and the IBM 1401) was a Burroughs B 2500. It used a KSR 33 as the system console. I used those things on various Burroughs machines for close to 10 years before they were finally replaced with a TD830 screen terminal.
You make it look so easy, I've been spending weeks trying to figure why my machine is chattering in local.
9:30 time to ask PCBWay for a new PCB :)
This is beautiful. Thank you for this.
Evaporust works pretty good for removing rust - it is basically oxalic acid. It's safe, but makes hydrogen sulfide as it removes the rust - so it stinks. I surprised the belts and plastic parts held up.
After cleaning, do you lubricate the parts? What do you use? Love the videos.
As little as possible. Mostly I use Nye oil 140B. Super light, as close to a miracle oil as possible. On gears, aviation grease.
Evapo rust would clean that metal very well...
I just realized you are the LightLogic guy! Holy smokes :D
Amazing work. How can you guys invest so much time? Ah my job still consumes to much time 😀.
Also your patience is phenomenal.
One more time ..... nice job :) beau boulot :)
I have one of these needing some TLC, so this will be interesting to follow.
Always enjoy watching these videos! Is Marc converting his home into a private museum with all the construction? LOL
Yay more teletype videos!
I am so sorry that I dumped one of these around 1988.
It must have been out of the rain at some time.
I looked just now at the machine.
Have you noticed the red wheel with the breakable flaps?
It was (an OTP ROM) for sending a preprogrammed ID message.
Correct?
I feel bad. Many years ago I threw three working ASR-33's along with boxes of new spare parts in the dump years ago. I got tired of moving them around.
It is sometimes hard to discern between junk and future antiques.
I had a chance of picking up a teletype in the 1990s. Back then of course, it was just seen as obsolete and I couldn't think of a use for it. Bah!
I already love this series. The word is "baud", not "bauds" :)
Sadly, for me, I remember unboxing a brand new one of these in around 1975 I would guess.
Mental exercise: Yes, of course the Model 33 is not as heavy-duty as the Model 15 or 19 from the previous series. So: Suppose our President announced that the furriners were stealing all our secrets with their fancy-pants electronics, so he was going to reopen the original Teletype factory in Chicago and start making Model 15s again so we can communicate using good old American (and French) technology. How much do you think one of those would have to sell for today? $100,000? $200,000?
ASCII is 7 bits but the 33ASR can only do upper case, right? Wouldn't that make it 6 bits?
Great video by the way. I can almost smell the oil and mechanics :-)
I believe that's correct, uppercase only. I was wondering myself. Does the keyboard produces the correct lower case and upper case variations? And what will the printer do when it receives lower case? I'll have to check that out once we get it going.
@@CuriousMarc Aha. Wikipedia says: "The Model 33 used the seven-bit upper-case only ASCII code, also known as CCITT International Telegraphic Alphabet No. 5, with one (even) parity bit and two stop bits."
@@JacGoudsmit Just tried the keyboard part, and it will only transmit upper case ASCII codes. Actually, the shift key will lock out the alphabetic letters, you can't even use it with these. The receiving part still does not work, so I don't know yet.
@@CuriousMarc Right. So it generates ASCII codes up to 0x5F but not 0x60 to 0x7E. I seem to remember there is a DEL key that generates 0x7F, or some other way to punch all holes of a paper tape which is used to correct mistakes. So anyway, that's 7 bits, not 6. I don't remember what it prints if you send it lower case ASCII characters: I expect that it converts them to upper case but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't print anything.
The serial protocol uses a parity bit and 2 stop bits but the parity bit is not written to the paper tape. The baud rate is something like 110 or 150.
Tape is 8-bits, parity should be on it.
now that the AGC is done, we have to watch restoring something that Looks like a washing machine
Please let there be close-ups of the keyboard assembly in Part 2.
Isn't the mechanism similar to the typing perforator on the Model 28?
Id love you to do a restoration on a Creed 75 baud Teletype, but they may not have been a thing in America
Machines like that always seem to satisfy me.. The engineering is soo good and innovative.. now everything looks the same.. companies just copy one from another..
Will it run in local mode without paper?
Cheers,
Where can you get blank paper tapes for these machines?
Mr. RTTY! He offers them regularly on ebay too.
I have somewhere remaining ends of Mylar tape that was used on CNC machines 😁
Used them as emergency belts in HP ½" tape drives in the seventies.
@@paulcohen1555 I worked on a couple of models of HP tape drives back then. I think the first one was the Datamec 3030 series that HP had recently bought. That was about 1969. A few years later, they came out with their own, completely redesigned, of course. That was back in the days when drives were stand alone machines, about 6 feet tall. And there were rows and rows of them in the "computer room". Can't find any record of them on the internet, though. If it happened before the internet, it didn't happen, I guess.
@@frenchcreekvalley Probably these were the drives that I fixed with the 8 channel Mylar tape 🙃
I was wondering about the motor required to receive 7 bits at 110 baud, and I think it is one of these, rated at "1/12 or 1/20 horsepower" :D
www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/jh/bsps/bsp/570series/570-220-100TC-Iss4.pdf
Now it would be possible to calculate, at what range an actual horse would be more efficient at delivering a bulk of messages.
Wow, is that transistor dated 1952?
I hope this will be a 32 part series?
Positive reinforcement? Did you give it a cookie? 😃
From personal experience that dual fork can be broken either trying to get it in or out...
High watt resistors too close to the PWB. But then again was it only expected to last 30 years and no more? ;)
You can program with these
I have a KSR-33
BTW, Mike Douglas (deramp5113) built a 20mA Loop / RS-232 Board for the Teletype 33
deramp.com/tty_adapter.html
2018 video in its usage with his Teletype 33
ruclips.net/video/PNbo46Yw92M/видео.html
ooo i got a sick asr33 i need to figure out
This is quite an amazing video. What can be done with the machine besides collect them I wonder?
It is a serial terminal. You can hook them to a linux box as a real tty (tty stands for teletypewriter). If you wanted, you could use it to configure your cisco router :)
Or if you have the right kind of interface you can hook it up to a modern computer and sync it to a RSS feed and make it print the news. I think I've seen it on RUclips
@@explorer914 You can print your own telegrams.
The 33 tty was the i/o device at Ohio State University PDP-10 timeshare system in 1970. Can you program the WRU drum?
The 33 was the teletype of choice for our PDP 8E. We spent many a night in the lab writing PAL8 assembly on the ASR 33.
I had my own 33 later on and had it interfaced to my VIC 20 as my printer. It was a great showpiece. Sadly it went to the graveyard around 1990....
I think the WRU drum was programmed by cutting pins or something (we had some type 33's at my college to teach us about serial communications but I've never seen one on the inside). Write-once, read many times :)
@@JacGoudsmit yep dont remember how many characters you could program but it is a plastic drum and you clipped off pins
Quick goto Itty dot com and copy somemail rtty.
Woot I’m first 😎😎😎
I feel obliged to give you 7 ASCII + 1 parity vintage bits.