This topic hits home. I'm 47 raising a 9 year old and a full time job. Steady chipping away at Dodonpachi Dfk, and Akai Kattana and making progress. Slowly making progress but progress none the less. Most importantly I'm having a blast. Daily I get about 20 min in the morning and about an hour at night 2-3 nights a week.
Exactly my friend, same here with me and my ketsui omote. I can't sit down and grind out 4 hours sessions regularly anymore, but I can chip away at it bit by bit and it's still very fun.
Im 38 working full time as administrator and teacher as well as raising my five year old daughter, and felt exactly the way you described. The thought of Attempting a bullet hell seemed like... Well ... Hell. The thing is I remembered how much fun I had with 1943 on NES as a kid. In college I downloaded r-type and soldier blade on my Wii. We had so much fun taking turns playing them! We never beat any of them but had tons of fun playing those in-between rounds of halo 2 A few weeks ago I downloaded Capcom arcade stadium and have been having a blast on some of those shmups. I discovered your channel and a couple others and have been practicing Giga Wing, which I've fallen in love with I can say without a doubt that I'm better at shmups now than when I was a kid, and substantially better at gigawing than I was a few weeks ago . I'll keep working until I can 1cc it - which feels possible. Something I never thought would be possible for me Thank you for all the helpful resources you've provided!
My dad used to be pessimistic about games until he just finally got bored at work and played the Rainbow Six copy I installed for him on his laptop. Being 50, he completely finessed it, level capped, has all the rare gear and bought zero microtransactions, he even bought himself a R6S bomber jacket being a fan. Insane. $14 well spent 😆 I tried letting my grandmother with dementia play Pac-man, she was completely lost but eventually, I could sense she was slowly understanding it, pretty sure it could've cured her dementia if she didn't get tired so easily. Games are a blessing for the elderly. Sadly they grow up with this idea that games are for kids. The Wii is the closest we got to making old people enjoy games.
That's a really cool story about your dad ha. My parents have 0% interest in games other than my dad liking pacman. That's a good idea maybe I'll make him a little pac-man machine with arcade stick installed and everything ha.
@@TheElectricUnderground - My mother plays pac-man occasionally thanks to my cheap windows tablet/mayflash arcade stick combo. oh and *wink wink* - 'CoinOPS' seems like a pretty convenient way to startup a Retro sanctuary.
Ha ha , yeah it sort of creeps up on you ... I was into video games from space invaders onwards . Back then not many adults played the games , times change !
I just discovered that I love shmups at the age of 40. I also have a chronic health condition where I get too tired to do much of anything. That doesn’t stop me!! I’ll throw up some good scores on the online leaderboards. You’re never too old.
Started playing Bullet Hells in my late 40’s, I’m now 51. A word not used often enough with shmups is strategy. They are strategy games, not puzzle games, not reflex games. Granted, some muscle memory is involved, but without a good strategy you’re doomed to fail. Mr Wendal on games has a great video on this called Bullet Hell Shmups: More than dodging. He explains it quickly and simply. I highly recommend it.
As I’ve played more and more I’ve definitely felt this. Been playing ZeroRanger and yes, having prior knowledge and being able to plan is the fun part of the game. I think the reflex mindset comes from people who take a glance and assume that makes the game.
I have pretty limited time with my kids. Im in my early forties. That said im slowly getting that little bit further in mushimesama without dying, and its fantastic when you hit thst moment where you find the path to success. I may not be very good but i enjoy shmups a lot more then when i was younger.
Yes with limited time what I do now is force myself to focus on one game at a time and one goal at a time. So I ve taken a year to chip away at the ketsui omote 2 all but I can't switch games until I get it ha
Yes im trying to force myself but its hard with so much choice! I do enjoy focusing ob one thing though i find it almost meditative when you get in the zone
I'm 48 and still enjoy these ultra difficult games. It may take me way longer to conquer them than they would 20 years ago, but it's all about persistence!
I kind of have strong...feelings about the whole "I'm too old to play hard games anymore, I have a job" argument. It rubs me the wrong way because it implies that video games are something to be crossed off a checklist, where if you aren't making progress towards seeing the credits, uninstalling it, and moving on, you've wasted your time. But that's not true! So long as you're having FUN in the moment-to-moment gameplay, you're not "wasting" your time! It boggles my mind how so, SO many people thinking constantly being in the action in Mushi, Ghosts N Goblins, etc is a "waste of time," but somehow spending minutes in menus to get +2.3% crit chance in your supposed action game or holding the analog stick forward in a flat field between points of interest in an open world ISN'T wasted time. Time that you're having fun isn't wasted, even if you're not "progressing" towards seeing the credits!! And look, I get that for some people, replaying a game for mastery isn't for them. And that's TOTALLY FINE. But I just don't like calling it "wasted time," as if the only people who can get enjoyment out of hard games are people with nothing better to do, lol
Yeah I get having less free time, but we live in the western world so everyone has some degree of free time. Like people saying they are too old and don't have time to practice, probably have plenty of time for social media and doom scrolling ha
One thing that helped me, when you mentioned that transition between consciously thinking about moving/dodging/etc. to more instinctual gameplay was really dialing in to the sound my fingers make tapping my arcade stick. I guess I'm more of an auditory person but specific sequences of taps and their sound helped me know what to do with my hands if that makes any sense! Listen to your fingers! Great video, thank you very much for putting in the work to make it!
Gotta worry less about your increasing reaction times, and gotta worry more about your increasingly large number of mental blocks. People almost never get to use their reflexes when playing, their reaction times are affected too much by having to process a ton of information. The less info you have to process, the more you can chip away at your reaction times until you're left with something very close to your reflex. That wall exists but getting to it pretty much requires you to get good at the games to begin with, since it's the only way to simplify the huge amount of data coming in. And like you said, shmups are memorization friendly anyway, I mean look at Psikyo the first loops have almost no pattern randomness to speak of.
While I can't say I'm a great Shmup player, at 48 I play better than when I was 17 and just set the games to easy to beat them and move to the next one. Which also led me to better understand and appreciate the genre. I still need to sharpen my skills, but despite needing glasses to overcome a true handicap (can't do much of I can't see the screen, lol) there's nothing related to age regarding my performance playing shmups.
Excellent video- it accurately describes my journey in shmups so far. Started out playing on reflex and felt like this genre was just immensely stressful. Now as I gain experience/skill and git gudderer I sometimes enter this blissful state where it's like I'm not even looking at my ship and I'm just waltzing through patterns. Its awesome and the real appeal of shmups. Now I find I only use reflexes after I make a mistake or I'm playing a level/game for the first time.
Yes the lightning reflexes are a nice skill to have when you get thrown off route and you are scrambling to get back into position, but as far as your overall gameplan, you can get incredible clears by focusing on routing and knowledge of the game.
One of my favorite archetypes in anything ever is the old guy that is an absolute god and beats everyone in whatever it is that he does, so to me old people are that are really good at anything are basically the coolest people ever. I wonder how far these older players will go.
The fighting game comparisons are excellent. The concept people are using a lot in the FGC nowadays is the concept of the "mental stack", which is about how much memory in your brain certain things take. The more you leave to muscle memory, the more brainpower is left to think about things that matter. In fighting games that's thinking about what the opponent might do, in shmups it's about what's coming next in the run. In the end, I think the reason people feel too old is because they actually lack the time (and/or motivation) to practice and get more shit into their muscle memory.
I think the mental stack analogy is interesting, I've heard that one a time or two. I tend not to think of it that way and instead view it like the eye of a camera. If you are focusing in on your movements and how to make the ship move where you want, then you can't "see" in a mental processing sort of way, the bullets that are about to smack right into you. The mental stack things works as well, but I don't think the brain is actually able to stack a bunch of factors like ram. Instead what you do is learn and know what is noise so that you don't have to focus on it. Like in a big complex bullet pattern, if you try to mentally process that whole thing your head will explode. Instead, you learn what are the key areas of the pattern and then zoom in on them for observation, and the rest of the pattern blurs into the background :-)
if you're at the point where you calculate how much energy you use on "thinking", you have gone too crazy min-maxing your "energy household". And I disagree that we should use "less energy" or spend less time thinking. The opposite is the case. "Use it or lose it". The more you think, practice and do things, the longer you will be healthy, fit and in good shape. It goes for your body as it goes for your mind. There are athletes in their 50's, who are fitter than people in their 20's. There are chess masters at 80, who think more clearly and more fast witted than people in their 30's. Never stop using it. Never stop improving it. Believe in yourself. GROW.
These are games about planning, repetition, and practice. I think of it like playing an instrument. You just get better as you get older at an instrument (until arthritis sets in or you lose strength in your hands/fingers). There's no reason you can't do the same with shmups
That is exactly right david and if you switch over to arcade stick even arthritis won't slow you down much as most of you movements on arcade stick are larger movements of the hand and arm, rather than the fingers :-)
@The Electric Underground Ha, I'm the opposite. I recently made the (literally) painful discovery that I can't play stick because it triggers an incredibly painful tendinitis flare-up in my button hand. I was playing Super Turbo and SFA2 for about an hour a day on Fightcade and really enjoying it until one day it felt like a lobster was pinching the inside of my wrist and my fingers got tingly. The pain lasted for a few weeks and has pretty much gone away after I did a pretty intense stretching routine every day. I was playing Chun-Li in both games and I thought maybe I had a flare up because of how hard I was mashing for Lightning Legs and Custom Combos. But even playing shumps with auto fire on triggers it. I busted out the stick again after a couple of pain-free months to try it out with DOJ and I started to feel a burning pain in the back of my hand just from holding down the shot and laser buttons. So I went back to pad permanently because the pad doesn't hurt me.
Practice and dedication is really one of the key to get better, not just in shmups, but on everything in life. I’ve been practicing Touhou 8 on Normal, especially on stages 4 to 6. I’m getting better beating Marisa on Stage 4, but still having problem on Stage 5 midboss Tewi. I’m also practicing most Psikyo shmups because I’m having a problem with them like Strikers 1945 III. Also, age is just a number. No matter how old you are, you can still play difficult games like shmups. Though you need dedication and determination.
I'm guilty of one such "2old4that" comment myself, but I swear that I grew 5 years younger just watching this video alone! Btw those arcade bam-bam-bam inputs reminded me of bim-bim-bim cadence of Bukowski's poetry. There is that simple honesty in both, something those AAAs lost for most part.
You get triple cool points for referencing Bukowski in your comment ha. That bim-bim-bim quote of his, is one of my favorites. The man was keeping it real back in the day, maybe a bit too real but still thank you very much for the quote and flattering comparison!
I think the "wall" will fall after the first 1cc. My suggestion is follow what Mark said and also stick to a single game. The feeling after doing the 1st 1cc is difficult to describe and is not just awesome by itself it will also help to realize how cool was the journey and in the next game the mindset, the anticipation and the confidence obtained will make it easier. Choose a game, stick to it, enjoy.
Yes if you want to advance in the genre you do need to settle in and push through a 1cc, because jumping from game to game is only avoiding the crucial grind :-)
I'm 40 and consistently progressing further and further in Gunvein, DDP Daifukkatsu Black Label, and Mushi on one coin. No excuses! Time is tough, but if you're 40, you should know how to make time to do things you enjoy, which should be shmups.
Recognize pattern type: is it homing at you? Is it just moving in a set direction? How is it telegraphed? Recognize threat type: innocuous little tank blast a super fast, near un-dodgeable blast? Target innocuous tanks first then. Recognize the proper tool for the hazard. Recognize patterns. Memorize what's memorizable. Get ok at dodging because you are going to need to correct unfortunate maneuvers . Recognize mechanics that are built in to help you with particular hazards, and utilize them properly. Use your power and don't horde it for a rainy day
By the time I get to a clear, I would actually ignore most bullet patterns, since they shouldn't threaten me as long as I follow my route. Like I don't even SEE them anymore. It's probably not the optimal way to play, but I basically have tunnel vision, where I only focus on the next visual cue I'm expecting. If the visual cue happens to be a bullet, then yeah I'll see that bullet. But if I'm looking for an enemy, then I wouldn't see any bullets. If there are any stray bullets that move in a way that I didn't expect, I can get hit by it and wouldn't even know what killed me (until I check a replay), which shows how narrow my focus is. And if I have to deviate from my route, it quickly turns into a total trainwreck. Even for moments where I do some seemingly crazy dodges, it's not like I'm reacting to them. I'm either panicking and moving randomly, or I have an idea of how the bullet patterns are so I know roughly how I can move to delay my death a little longer (e.g. a tap dodge to narrowly avoid some aimed bullets). What I'm trying to illustrate here is that my playstyle is the complete opposite of what these people expect. I rely purely on routing and resource management, not reflexes. In fact, my reflexes are super slow. Going back to that stray bullet example, even if I saw it coming, I would blank out and just let myself get hit. That's how slow my reflexes are; I need a second or two to react. And yet, I can still get 1cc's. Reflexes help, but they're unnecessary in this genre.
I guess that explain why I manage to overcome Segment 6 of Hellsinker. The after boss wave pattern used to be my worst. When I first manage to reach the part, I tried to let my reflex and somehow the popcorns just fills the screen with undodgable bullets. When I tried to stay still whenever each small wave spawns, it somehow feels like the pattern got a bunch of obvious holes I can safely say. After that, it felt like I am just wagging my character in a very specific movement instead of a ball bouncing everywhere.
People are actually too old to have the time to train on a challenging game due to obligations. And that's sad. I want to learn a lot of them. No time.
Age is usually a factor with responsibilities and obligations but more almost anyone on a varying age range can have too much responsibilities and obligations to deal with the the amount of time it takes to get good at a skillful video game on top of all that
@@rafresendenrafresenden.1644. I wish I could. I spent my spare time reaching to level 3 and die on the boss. 😊 Then go on to sleep in order to fight the next day.
I m in the same boat myself believe me. But I think one very simple solution is instead of playing a variety of shmups and hopping from game to game, reallocate that time to a single game and push through the difficulty wall - which will translate to other games in the future
i really thought the same thing when i played sekiro. i thought "thats it, this game is on another level from the dark souls i knew, my hands are incapable of what they are asking me, i better drop it or else i'll be wasting my time". after beating my head agaisn't a wall for a month (haven't finished it yet) i can say sekiro is my favorite game currently lol.
When I was younger, I tended to play slower-paced games focused on strategy, or exploration. It wasn't until I was in my 30s or so that someone showed me a video of Warfork (then called Warsow), a very fast-paced FPS. I jumped in and started playing, and it took me quite some time to get the hang of advanced aFPS movement, like bunny-hopping, strafe-jumping, etc. It wasn't because I was old, but because I had never played a game like that. But now that style of movement comes to me naturally, along with other concepts like player prediction and powerup timing, which frees me up to concentrate on the actual fight. More recently, I jumped into classic Quakeworld multiplayer, in which the movement is different from many of the games that came after. The item timings were all off from what I was used to, and weapons are much faster and deadlier, throwing off my prediction. I essentially had to relearn these concepts to get good at the game. It took about 1 month, and I didn't even grind it that hard. And I'm in my 40s. For me, that story is the same for other game genres, including fighting games (I didn't really get into them until Guilty Gear XX on PC) and shmups. The first stage of getting into the games, adjusting your mindset, and getting the basic muscle memory takes time, but once it clicks, it's a skill that can carry into many other games in the genre, even if they aren't similar in any way. I never really played a beat-em up until SoR4 recently, but the skills I had from fighting games somehow carried over very nicely. As for the time it takes out of daily life, I certainly don't spend as much time gaming as I used to, but even putting in an hour every other day or so, I manage to get pretty decent at most of the games I play. I probably won't ever be top tier, certainly not without actually dedicating myself, but I don't need to. The only person I'm competing with is past me.
I really agree with your framing here. I c ame back to shmups twice in my thirties after having only played a handful of them a little when I was much younger and I both got much better at them and enjoy them more as a genre at 39 than I did in my teens. If players have arthritis or especially poor eyesight that create issues in many other genres, then I could see that being an issue in shmups as well - but age in general and reflexes aren’t nearly as big an issue as a lot of people seem to think, much like the way people misperceive age in relation to powerlifting. And if a person is short of time, then Ketsui Deathtiny’s Bonds and AC Challenge Mode are perfect for short training sessions. :)
Yes I think people sort of over-estimate the ravages of time itself. Usually if people start to really decay in their 40s, that's not actually their age per say, but a lot of maybe less healthy choices piling up on each other. I used to race in triathlons in my 20's and distinctly remember much older men in their late 40s passing me during the runs and biking ha. And they weren't roided out or anything, just these tough balls of wax that kept moving.
@@TheElectricUnderground I know what you mean. When I was 31 and went to the USAPL West Coast Regionals, the best lifter in my weight class was 11 years my senior and a former military guy with a lifelong commitment to physical fitness. My powerlifting total was 472.5 kg and his was 635.5kg. When he was competing at 44 he was still pushing himself and attempting (and only narrowly missing) significantly higher weights in both deadlifts and squats. I’m looking forward to getting back to lifting more again soon. It’s not getting older that gets you - in my case it was a car crash that sidelined me the first time and operations the next one (obstructed airway one time and gallbladder the next). It’s easier coming back to it than starting the first time. :)
This reminds me of how when I had all the free time in the world I would run into a problem on the opposite extreme. If I play something super difficult for more than around 4 hours it's usually in my best interest to take the rest of the day off or otherwise I would start to get fatigued and would practice incorrectly thus messing up my muscle memory.
Great video! My hands shake and I don't consider myself a quick witted person, but I've noticed myself getting better at shmups over the years simply through muscle memory and learning what to do and when. Even in fighting games where you DO need to react quickly to a mix up, learning when to expect the mix up is much more important than simply reacting to what you see, I think. On top of it all, perhaps if people who consider themselves to have slow reactions were to take an online test, they might be surprised at how well they do.
Exactly you don't need perfect dexterity and Uber fast reactions, knowledge and experience are certainly enough to take you through the core difficulty of the genre and I think even really high difficulty games. Psikyo you can memo most of the stages and patterns and those games have blistering bullet speeds. it s all about timing and routing
I saw a comment on a video upload of a rhythm game song talking about how rhythm game players back in the day (mid-2000s or so) are now too old and unable to Stay Gud at rhythm games. meh, I am 35 and though I no longer play games like IIDX and DDR, instead being a traitor to Westerners by playing tablet/mobile rhythm games like Arcaea and Phigros, and I still enjoy the hell out of these games. Ditto shmups. I've gotten *wiser* at the least.
56yo here. 1CCed Mushi original last year. At 104% of Super Meat Boy and still working on it :) Have a Gigawing clear under my belt and a no-miss Darius Gaiden too. Raiden III though - had to play on Easy to get the 1CC. That bullet speed means it's too memory intensive to play at a higher level. At level 6 of Layer Section. Sub 2minute 40line Tetris clear but I want to half that time.
that's awesome to hear! yes my dad is in his mid sixties and now does all these very detailed paintings, and he just started painting about 5 years ago. So it's not too late to pick up new skills my friends!
Premium fun content right here. I had a good laugh at some of this video as it really spoke to me and the truth that was spoken. I love the video of the “old” dudes before their Astro City (and Redbull sponsored) play off. Pushing 50 I now have a Candy cab collection I once dreamed about and I believe just enough time to commit to enjoying and beating some of these amazing games. Now I need to know what you think about whether a few beers makes one play better. 😊
The same applies in fighting games. When I stop playing for a long time my mind becomes dull, I can't dp their jump ins or react effectively because I didn't visualise the next move.
Unless you are about 60, then your not too old. In my youth, I loved skateboarding. Skated everyday up until j reached 18, when I started going out to pubs and clubs. Then when I got to about 35 I stopped drinking and picked up my board again. It took me a few months but I was learning lots of new tricks that I couldn't achieve in my youth. It's the same with shmups. I 1cc lots of games I couldn't when I was a kid.
Great video. I love shumps because they give me a adrenaline rush in a fast time. The older i get the Better i understand the game mechanics and i do agree with many of tour points. The reality is that with obligations, responsabilities lack of time,etc we tend to value the most Essentials things in life (health, hapinees, family , paying the bills, etc). When we get older we do lose reflexes and even the other characterístics you mention in the video. I have a part time of teaching unemployed people of all ages and i have a harder time with older people. Some of them are tired and simply can t memorize and learn new concepts.
I found myself getting better at video games since I’m older. I sometimes go back to video games I found difficult when I was younger and I’m actually able to beat them.
myself as well! In fact it's sort of funny to go back to games I thought were really hard even as a teenager, like Donkey Kong Country 2, and fly through the games without any trouble ha. It's because now I understand the underlying design of the game and what effective play looks like.
For me, the opposite is true. I can sit down now and play a game I beat "back in the day" and find myself sitting there getting rekd and thinking to myself "how in the hell did I beat this "back in the day?" I even have some Kryptonite games that I can't beat no matter how hard I try. Holy Diver is a perfect example, I can't even beat that game with Game Genie codes. There's a video idea for you Mark, if you have any games you can't beat make a "Kryptonite games" video.
My reflexes are worse than they were 10 years ago but I can get my "arousal" level under control much better. That means I can make better decisions and don't really need to rely on pure reflexes these days. I think there was a study about that but I forgot where to find it. Plus all the years of FPS, beat em ups, run n guns, etc. carry over into each other.
I think that most often when people say 'I'm too old to play hard games.' it just means that they don't wanna commit their free time to it anymore. Meaning, they're unwilling, not necessarily incapable. Though, if or when they do play it doesn't need to be several hour long sessions. What about 30 minutes to an hour? Once you're good enough, that's enough time to do a run of most shmups and even if you aren't - it's still better to sparsely, but regularly play than give up. Heck, ZeroRanger's White Vanilla takes, like, 15 minutes. I keep playing it because it's so easy to splice into any day of my life when I need to wait for something and have access to my PC.
I've been a hardcore gamer since I was 9/10 years old. Played consistently from the arcades through pretty much every console. I'm now 48 and I'm way better on shmups and fighters now than i ever was in my teens and 20's.
That's very cool to hear! I'm definitely much stronger of a player these days than I was in my 20's, even though I am certainly less quick in terms of raw reaction speed as I was back then. In these genres experience is so valuable
My age has been a huge advantage to playing shmups; I'm less attached to outcomes, and that makes it easier to "fail with intent." I see people discussing how age and the obligations that come with age limit their training time, but I'm making gains in a couple of ten minute sessions a week- I have two young kids and I basically game when they're asleep and all the housework is done. Figure for 5 minutes of enjoying your progress to date and 5 minutes of learning patterns in a new section; don't plan or intend to end on a successful note. The latter part of your session should be about gathering intel and taking notes toward your next session.
i know or a lot of the Korean Tekken players like Knee and Qudans. These guys are at the heights of their skill and they are def in their late 30s or early 40s.
@@yegormorozov7007 To play at the top level stuff like clicks per minute or reaction time actually are really important so the top players are all in their 20s. Not true for fighting games or shmups though.
@@RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS77 ur apm doesnt have corelation with ur age, its just a matter of how much information ur brain can process at once and its something that u develop overtime by practising and thus might be better developed of more aged player. Ur reaction time is the only thing that inevitably slows overtime but first of all it also can be trained (ive been coaching in league a 36 yo former CS player that had the reaction time of ~180ms at his age), second of all the difference is not detremential to the point of younger player having some significant adventage. U can make a point that when it comes to aiming some tracking skills like target switching and movement reading are highly dependant on reaction, and even tho its true there are SO many other aiming skills that can only be achieved by practice and dont corelate to ur reaction time so its debatable if the aged player with tons of practice behind his shoulders wouldnt have an advantage in that department. If we speak about why theres so little amount of players over their 20s in pr play we have to look at 2 things: 1. Absolute majority of pro players start their cariers extremely young, and being pro player is one of the most mentaly taxing jobs out there, so its no surprise most of them will crash and burn before they even reach their 30s and they just lose motivation. 2. In a lot of games management of esports orgs are absolute cancerdogmatic about the age of players they sign, and if u are older than 20 unless u are alrdy made a name for urself nobody even gona consider u (as i previosly said i had an experience coaching in league and i know a bunch of such stories)
I’m 39. I have Mania clear in SOR4, Normal clear in The Ninja Saviours, but man, died twice at the last boss in Cotton Reboot Arrange mode! Lol. I’ll get back to it at some point. Real arcade challenge is where it’s at tho. Another great vid man!
With their stores closing late next month, any plans to cover a list of must-have 3DS or Wii U shmups disappearing from their stores? I know you’ve mentioned Sin and Punishment and Recca in the past and I’m wondering if others (like the Steel Empire remake) make your list.
Hmmm I have a wii u and never bought a single digital game. I think the gem 💎 on the console is starfox zero and it would be cool to cover it again :-)
As an older player with time limits you should probably only play shmups... Playing a good shmup for twenty minutes you can experience all the intensity, challenge and excitement that gaming has to offer, while it take hours of playing an arpg to even approach that :) I like the surfing and playing an instrument analogies. Another great post, thanks!
It's just like you said. The key factor is that older people usually have to take more responsibilities for other things in life. For example, I bought KOF XV two days ago on steam sales and was super hyped to get into it. I watched some guides about the mechanics, went straight into training mode and practiced the characters I liked. Then I realized what a huge amount of work I burdend on myself and how little time I actually have. In that moment I've got really nostalgic feelings for the time when I was a student in my 20s. Nowadays I really have to keep it focused on the core mechanics so that I'm just decent enough to have fun in online matches. But I don't have the time to learn the frame data of a full roster or build the muscle memory for optimized combo routes with 1frame cancels or stuff like that. So I'd say age is definitely a factor, due to the changing social conditions that come with growing older. But you're absolutely right, that the real reasons are in the majority of cases not physically caused factors but the lack of game knowledge and muscle memory.
I'm the same way now Dr. Pepper. There are so many games that I have to trim out of my life and instead focus on getting right to the heart of something like ketsui, and it is really rewarding. Many players who have busy lives say they don't have time to practice shmups, but then you see them playing FF 15 or something ha
"THIS IS GAMING..." 100% AGREE👍 While I lost all my games, consoles, guides, arcade cabinets, shmup PCBs, Neo Geo MVS carts etc in 2010 as well as became homeless, I am slowly getting back into gaming still. I LOVE and used to have every JP DC shmup(about half were LEs), many on/for Saturn as well as Genesis, Sega CD, Neo Geo, PC Engine and CD-ROM² and many more shmup games as well as JRPGs as I was always into "niche" stuff (I still like and watch laserdisc movies), and Shmups were and still are one of my #1 types of games. I miss the Egret II I had with 2 player Sanwa Panel and converter to play non jamma based arcade games more than anything. I beat and got my 1st and still only 1CC playing the original Death Smiles PCB on that cabinet. For me, the sit down cabinet+quality controls+29' screen made a for me tremendous difference. But I also loved Twinkle Star Sprites and other Neo Shmups on the 19' SNK official goldie stand up wooden cab I had I loved. Both were great. I am EXTREMELY happy to at the moment have the ability to atleast play Super Famicom, Famicom/Famicom Disk System, and PCE games(an accident broke my CD-ROM² unit from my briefcase so I dont count that right now) again at the VERY least. Especially PCE as I love shmups but SFC as well as I love JRPGs and theres tons of greats and now thanks to many dedicated groups...many JRPGs previously unplayable now are and I love and am more thankful to all of them than they know. I can also play PSX games but again...thats mostly for JRPGs as most shmups on PSX are so much better on Saturn...DoDonPachi especially. Anyway, neat video about playing and getting better at shmups. I am 36 and if you read my opinion/reply to the message closest to the top about being unable to play due to age or family youll also understand me saying I lost/had discarded every game and game related thing I owned I gathered and used every cent I ever had between ages 8, 9, and or 10 through my early/mid 20's. It still eats at me and I wont hide the fact I am disgusted and disappointed with how greedy people are...but its mostly the fact that the secondary market (I followed and was part of all my early life) has been destroyed by a mix of greedy/careless(as they have all their stuff and they amongst other things wanted their collections to be worth a lot more than they were in 2012 and prior and they quickly succeeded as by 2013 not only had the fact having real copies of the "full"(stuff on ps4/vita etc that is basically just part of the game as stuff that should be there isnt as well as the game not running well as basically games now have no or little quality control and release broken to some degree and basically requires downloading potentially big updates that are not on the disc so it dont matter if you have the disc as you cant play it unless you can afford unnecessary streaming services and again even if you get the physical game it is just about irrellivent unless its something like a re release in some form of games we already could have. Sorry for going off track but my point was that the secondary market has been since all the chain and retail and mom and pop and rental etc stores that played a HUGE role in keeping the secondary market regulated and generally reasonable from the 1980s-2010 and while loosing ALL my stuff completely destroyed me, the fact the secondary market has been taken over and is now controlled and basically regulated by greedy selfish careless resellers/flippers, youtube influencers who just talk about and "value" games while never really if at all even really played them themselves, so they cant and dont say how/why/if the games they are talking about are worth playing and why they have such an apparantly high cost despite how many copies of a game were printed/sold etc. So yes, I am honestly a bit jaded at the fact my life fell apart because of shit I cant control due to my family thats now almost all gone who are self absorbed and never treated people like family should aka caring about and being helpful to one another and not take advantage of other family members etc...my "family" does/never did none of this. So yes, it bothers me that in a span of 2 years or less, the US game secondary market prices double and tripled and now its 4-5× as it was all my life as sellers control it now. Ebay's an auction site primarilly...for every 1 auction I see theres easilly 40-50+ listings that are priced only. No auction...and thats how they've done it and so fast. Gaming is supposed to be something everyone can enjoy but now you gotta spend like $100+ just for a frigging gameboy and 1 game. And ofcourse shmups have been very affected as well in both console and arcade pcb etc forms. Anyway, you made some quite good points. But also, games(ESPECIALLY 2-2.5D released through the "8-32 bit" eras were very much about high scores(Nintendo Power and I believe Tips and Tricks, EGM etc had areas or contests or whatnot where you could send in legit high score pics and be featured, listed, win something, mentioned etc) thats very true. But I feel it was also more about trial and error and simply doing the best you could trying to get as far as you could but they were also very open with the cheating with game genie gameshark etc use. So I feel that its really the fact games could only be so big they wanted people to get as much as they could out if the games they owned as they were expensive back then with the games on carts more than anything else as the same game on CD(new then) was much less and offered a ton more space for content. Sorry for the ramble...I will simply say, I honestly think a more in depth video should be made on this topic especially as shmups are I admit atleast easier to play for most people as its so much easier to tate a HDTV than a normal regular tube TV at the very least. I love shmups but I still struggle myself as since im autistic with aspergers and adhd, OCD to a degree and such my mind cant handle holding 1 let alone 2 things in my head at a time and or be able to think before as I just cant function or use my mind like that. But I will say that memorization of what to expect and trial and error are big IMO when it comes to shmups. I sadly only have 1 shmup for Vita(newest game device I have) I got Vasara Collection recently. Anyway, im terrible at wording and explaining things but there definitely needs to be more knowledge shared about playing shmups be they Cave/Bullet Hell, on rails, Vert/hori, Toaplan or Compile, or PC anime based style(terms lost in my foggy mind right now) or whatever. And not just shmups. Play how you like, but games made especially in Japan as well as here from the mid 80s-mid/later 90s are tough for a reason. Your suposed to struggle as thats how you improve. Thanks for video. Stay well and be good. ✌️
As a long time Touhou player the skill you're referring to here is something I like to call the ability to "read ahead" All bullets in a SHMUP function on some form of intended behavior. They can be aimed at the player, they can follow a streaming pattern of some kind, they can be fast, or slow, the key is once you learn how each of the bullets behaves you can learn to predict/manipulate them. It is this key skill that allows the "super" players to be as good as they are. As for the age argument it's not that your ability to learn and execute changes it's HOW you learn that has changed. About the only thing my age has done to me in regards to gaming (38 BTW) is I suffer from mild carpal tunnel. My wrists get VERY angry at me if I "over do" things playing certain games. I can still button mash with the best of em so it's fine I just have to take more frequent breaks then I used to. Time is another big factor but most folk will somehow find the time for the things they love no matter how small.
For me the biggest thing was learning to see the whole screen, and then once I could do that better, learning to quickly calculate bullet trajectories. I think that's the big reaction gap - I'm still reacting to the bullet patterns, but my brain has figures out where the gap will be way before the bullets get to me. It's funny you mentioned legacy skill, because I think you're right, a lot of it doesn't transfer _into_ shmups, but they have tons of skills like that which transfer super well _out_ of them. I've definitely become better at games overall since getting into the genre.
Another amazing gaming video! By playing Street Fighter at a high level with friends over a 30+ year period I have learned that experience and practice are indeed the way to master the game. BUT as I get older, you do find yourself in situations where you could do things when you were younger that you can no longer do the same way. For example, when I was a teen I could uppercut a jumping opponent on reaction without any anticipation, i.e. I can see the jump happen and still have time to uppercut them even if I wasn't initially prepared for the jump. Now in my 40s I simply cannot do that as well as I used to, I can still uppercut jumping opponents, but what I almost always have to do is anticipate a jump beforehand to give me additional time to react. What this means is that there are times I will take a hit in a situation where I know I would not have when I was younger. It is probably the same for expert shmup players, they compensate for the loss in reflexes by using their extensive experience, but that kind of compensation can only go so far; there will be times where you take a hit in a situation where you could have worked your way out of when you were younger. So this is the thing, older players who are new to the genre really DO have it harder than younger players to get into the genre because they do not have youthful reflexes that can help compensate for their lack of experience. It doesn't mean that an older player cannot learn the genre, but I do think the path to becoming an expert will be harder (i.e. dealing with more failures) if you start at an old age versus if you started when you were a young player. I think it is like this with learning new things outside of gaming too, everything new becomes harder and harder bit by bit as we age.
Hardcore, nearly 100% scripted shooters really have almost nothing to do with thinking on your feet, it's all about routing in advance (problem solving), memorization, and probably the most important meta aspect of it all: keeping a positive, persistent attitude and accepting delayed gratification. Fully embracing the grind. Definitely not all game genres are like this (even under the oldschool "shooter" umbrella), and not all gamers have the tolerance to accept that degree of sheer repetition, and/or the time, in the case especially of older people. You can compare it to music: properly routing and executing a game such as Giga Wing would be like learning a complex classical piece, and then being able to sight read perform it flawlessly (or as close to flawlessly as you can get). By contrast, a twinstick shooter like Super Stardust HD on its endless mode, which requires pattern memorization for sure, but also throws random arrangements, permutations and combinations of predefined patterns at you, and then tasks you with surviving it all as long as you possibly can while optimizing your scoring, would be more along the lines of somewhat freely improvising over surprise sections of changing backing jazz music; these are two completely different design approaches and gamer mentalities, yet both within the shooter genre. And since twinsticks are more popular than "shoot em ups", that would seem to suggest most people prefer a more reactive, think-on-your-feet style of gameplay, as opposed to the sheer grinding repetition that is associated with serious shmup play. I like both personally, depends on my headspace at the time, as far as what I want to focus on, but both also take tons of practice time to play optimally ultimately. Still, the ADD-affected minds of most people today in our hectic computer phone, social media age are going to find either Giga Wing or Super Stardust HD endless getting stale pretty quickly if they are trying to take them seriously, and will most likely move on to some other game that is a) not so intensely fucking difficult and/or b) featuring of more opportunities for novel experiences (in the case especially of "shmups"). Serious shmup/shooter players are just sort of unusual people overall, I think, but that's also true of really hardcore gamers of any ilk probably, like speedrunners, or high level competitive multiplayer gamers. And also the older a person gets, the more responsibility they take on, and the more tired they may become because of all this (and let's face it, many adults end up being more or less forced to continually take on increasing amounts of responsibility as they age, and they end up not terribly happy about it, and are wearied by it overall) the likelier these aging adults are to say "I don't have the time for this gaming bullshit anymore" and then hang up their hat on hardcore gaming for good, and pursue some other hobby instead, which is less demanding and stress-inducing. I mean honestly, I think that's the reality of much of it as various types of hardcore gamers age: real life gets in the way, and thus they shift their time/energy commitments and priorities, whether they even may want to or not. In that sense, they may actually be "too old for it". Doesn't happen to everyone, but certainly some.
Yes routing is so much more important the reflexes. I think the raiden games are great examples because the bullets are so fast that clearly you have to route them ha.
Yes! Thank you! I'm going to watch the video now :D I'd also like to point out something, and it's the importance of good quality hardware, and I'm not talking about meme hardware that has RGB and look "gamer", but actual good hardware, aim for low inputlag monitors with high refresh rates to have a good motion clarity, try different keyboards which feel the best for you, take the time to configure your games properly to not artificially introduce more frames of delay than necessary (turn off Vsync for the love of god and manually lock your framerate with your emulator or a 3rd party app). Many people are actually good at games, but don't even know it because they're using a slow ass 60 Hz monitor with a ton of motion blur which makes things impossible to read. To me jumping from 60 Hz to 120/144Hz was a transformative experience, even for 60 FPS games which do benefit from the higher frequency!
I love your channel, my only suggestion is that sometimes you showcase some games but don't mention their name. I would love a tag or the name to be displayed so I can look that game up. Thanks and keep up the great work.
Though I do love shmups and am almost at the 1cc with Alltynex Second (Normal), I'm gonna play devils advocate and say another reason older people might look away from the genre is because the time needed to successfully complete these games may feel like a waste more than a sense of completion. I myself have played some shmups and completed them solely out of spite. Though I have a lot more time to waste than most people, I could only think to myself "I could have used my time on something else, but here I am 1CCn' a game I didn't like at all... on all routes..." Nice vid, keep it up.
Imagine being a 120 old watching this and thinking "YES YES YES! I CAN WIN, I FEEL GREAT, I CAN DO THIS, AAAH!" and then you say that getting good at these games takes time and it's like "never mind".
I train in the woods. I run naked on a path rigged with booby traps and paintball guns. My dodging skills get stronger every day. I also would recommend some truck stop speed. 1 ccs all day.
It's been a year since I started playing shmups. I was 35 then. If there were times where pure reaction got me through a shmup, it's because I was playing on an easy mode and have had a few months experience already. But as far as default difficulty levels are concerned, it requires mastery and understanding. I think the chess analogy was very good. I love playing Blue Wish Resurrection Plus. And even if that game has slower bullets than games like Mushi, you will still get walled if you dodge solely on reaction without considering the next waves.
I am a shoot em up gamer with 40 years experience. It is all about memory and experience. Reactions are not a part of it because I keep getting better.
Yeah, true. I think fighters and arcade games actually have a player base that skews much older than most. Though, as others have said, carving out the time can be difficult.
The reason why people feel they need to be young to get good is the same for why people do better when they start young with playing an instrument or playing chess or even learning languages. People, when they get older, have more things consuming their lives, yes, but they also just get tired faster when learning new things and loose focus. Old people can improve a lot and their potential is still high, but the difficulty getting the focus and dedication to reach that potential is much harder. Just to be clear they should still try to be the best chess/shmup player they can and they will feel the rewards from doing it but at the same time if they are learning a new skill at an old age they have a big disadvantage that none of the best players in the world had.
it's also surprisingly easy to get back into the groove of the genre. I think because it's so ingrained in the muscles, it usually only takes a day or two to get back into the grind and practice mode.
@@TheElectricUnderground agreed, with so many things in life from. Driving a manual transmission, martial arts, cooking, disc golf, skateboarding, surfing, and dam I could keep going. Most importantly staying healthy as possible. Healthy in mind body and spirit. Honestly we all know what's springs eternal.
Yeah. Right now I have a couple of barriers when playing. I am pretty sure its not because i am on my mid-thirties. They are more related to the precision of my movements (because I am newish to arcade stick), track the hitbox on esprade without really tracking the hitbox from esprade (which is already kind of funny) and the ability to come up with a plan to maximize the usage of my charges, abuse the high roof to breeze through certain parts... and execute said plan. Reflex is just not playing a role in there.
I've said this before on other places, but I'll say it here too. I'm 48 and I legit feel like I'm a much better gamer now than I EVER was as a kid. I remember in Contra on NES, I could barely get to stage 2 in the 80s. Just recently did a 1cc of the game on Switch just last week. Also did a 1cc on Mushi last week as well. These are feats I would have thought to be impossible back in the day. And no. Don't give me the "I don't have time" B.S. I have a family AND my own business. Where there's a will, there is always a way.
i think you guys are treating gaming way too serious. if people feel like they are too old for this, let them be. it also depends on what you do at work. if you do physically demanding tasks all day long, then all you want at home is some easy time. maybe you could play shmups hardcore mode but why would you play demanding games when your work is demanding enough? i find it really interesting how many older guys are here. so many 40+ish people. (i am 40 myself).
I'm really happy to hear that moondog! A little bit more niche, but I really wanted to give players who felt like they were stuck in the genre a bit of a pep talk ha.
Very interesting video ! I agree with you there : age and reflexes aren't gonna be your bread and butter for shmups. However it's just not true that there's no coming back for those who has tasted shmupsuperplaying. Just look at Prometheus : he's been playing nothing but gacha battle royale and AAA FPS lately, doesn't seem to miss his shmupping days much haha
Oh but you misunderstand what I mean. I don't mean that people don't stop playing shmups, what I mean is that you can't un-know the feelings and insights the genre brings. Like Bill in eyes wide shut. He and his wife may back away from what they have seen at the end of the movie, but that knowledge is with them forever. Their eyes are wide shut, get it :-)
Overall, i think this video is correct. I'm not too old to enjoy hard games. However, i might be too old to reach the goals I set for myself. I've been practicing Mushi Arrange 1cc lately and I just can't find the consistency. Patterns I fully understand still clip me unexpectedly, with no chance to bomb because I didn't even feel like I was in danger. I can no-miss all the stages at times, so I'm sure if i just did 200 runs the stars would eventually align. I've played about 80 hours so far. I'm probably going to give up on this goal and play more casually. The game is very fun and I love weaving through the hectic patterns. But it's brutal practicing stage 5 30 times and seeing no consistent improvement. And arrange is considered one of the "easy" modes in this game.
Couldn't agree more with the video, and yep, "I'm too old for this difficult game" is a classic cope :^) I've played rhythm games for almost 20 years off and on and I'm better at them now at 37 than when I was in my 20s. Even most rhythm games have things like adjustable offset so "reaction speed" doesn't really matter as much as people think it does. But a few recent studies have shown that even reaction speed itself (in the sense of "see thing on screen -> react to thing by hitting button") doesn't diminish in a statistically significant way until your mid 50s on average.
Oh that s interesting info about reaction time, that makes sense. There is this really interesting and funny documentary about brood war that national geographic did and they kept saying a player at the age of 28 was over the hill lol
I’m much better at skill games than ever in my 40s. One thing to also keep in mind is training tools and information access has never been as good as it is today. This alone is a huge advantage. There was a long period of time where I just played for fun but thought I’d never 1cc any of these games. That was purely due to not having access to information. I didn’t even know my TV had lag!
Letting my reflexes take over the game gives me 2 deaths in first stage. What I train for shmups is trying to not resort to "letting your reflex" handle everything. By the way, when will we get to see a video about "Simon says". I feel like games that apply that syndrome are the ones that really require reaction. Heck, Simon says only needs reaction and not the consequences.
Awesome breakdown. Agree that its a huge excuse people like to fall back on. Even if you do lose some twitch reaction speed you can make up for it with anticipation skill. At 42 I complete way more games than I ever did, and games that were impossible for me back then are moderate for me now in many cases. Sometimes easy. Most 8 and 16 bit style games, and these types of shooters have patterns that always repeat. So aslong as your memory still works you can get your positioning right. Two shooters where I felt I could not really do that were Gun.Smoke for arcade and Super Smash TV. Those felt like mostly brute twitch reaction. Im sure those games have learnable patterns but I couldnt find them when I completed them. Smash TV atleast had more precticable enemy and crowd patterns then Gun.Smoke. I play a variety of games as well as extreme modes. I used to play alot of online and was able to win Free for all matches pretty often in games like COD and Halo. I find I can still go online and react just as quickly, but these days Im more addicted to the rush of completing a high volume of single player games. I never really stopped playing, so that might help. Weight lifting was a main focus for about 3 decades, but the last 6 years have been very heavily focused around gaming, so that sharpened things up. The only thing that really prevents me from completing an extremely difficult game is the willingness to put time into it daily. Even if its just 30 minutes. It just has to be consistant with games that have limited continues.
Yeah and I'm not trying to be too pushy about people making excuses, but this one I think is important to discuss because I do think there is a sector of newer players who do believe this is indeed the main issue. So I'm hoping this video will help clarify in players minds what the sticking point to their progress likely is, and it is not pure reaction time.
@@TheElectricUnderground Yea, its a great topic to cover. Ive heard that excuse many times recently. Its understandable if you dont want to make the time to practice or suffer through the tougher periods, but I dont like when people say they cant do something, when its just a matter of putting in the time and work to get better. I used to think that reaction time was the key to skill, so its very understandable why some would feel that way. Later I realised there was many different types of skills, even patience is a huge one that takes work to build. Great to see these things covered.
People are just too quick to give up. I'm not an expert by any means, and my only experience is with touhou, but I've cleared all of the games on Normal, done all of the Extras, and I've got a few Hard 1ccs too (currently working on Lunatic EoSD). And where did I start? Slow reaction speed, dying on stages 1 and 2, barely knowing what I was doing. It just takes time and practice, and I'm tired of the mentality of quitting something you're not immediately good at.
By the way, sticking to a single game at a time absolutely is the best advice you can get for this genre. Unlike seemingly every other player, I didn't move on from each game until I 1cc'd it (so 1cc EoSD on Normal, then PCB, then IN, etc, and I can't move on until I'm done). It made me improve so quickly and come to truly understand the game first, so I can then focus on improving at shmups in general. Instead of trying to figure out game specific mechanics and routes, at some point I memorised my own one and could then focus entirely on execution, making me get way better as a player.
I have been playing games for over 42yrs now.. since 1979 infact. I am "possibly" the oldest QA Games tester in the UK - Im definitely the oldest one where I work. I can tell you without a shadow of any doubt there is no way my reaction times are what they where. However my experience of playing MANY MANY games helps a lot with anything I do play.. that said it is just not enough to combat the disparity between reactions and whats happening on screen especially with the bullet hell shooters. The rush of colour, sounds, numbers on screen, graphical effects etc. is all great - but my ability to be able to get far, even with practice on them seems very limited compared to how I used to be. Also I tend to find myself looking for bugs in games rather than playing the damn things too.. a habit I cannot get out of I think. So whilst im not too old to play them, and enjoy them at mid 50's age - I am feeling the limit of what I can play effectively much more. Or is that just me ?
Hm I feel like I got better as I got older. I know good and well I would not have 1CC'd Metal Slug, 1 lifed Contra and Super C or simply gotten through the American Hard Corps when I was playing those for the first time when I was 8-10 years old.
I don't know if it's true, but I heard and read that former World Chess Champion Gary Kasparov could think 13 moves ahead. I'm a pretty good chess player and would love to play Kasparov. I would get absolutely destroyed, but at least I could say I played him.
game knowledge lets you know what is coming way in advance, so you aren't reacting in the moment once you know the game. learning a game takes time, and different people are better than others at learning games, but breaking that process down of how to learn a game is the first actual step for anybody to play the game good. when you think of it like that, arcade games are still meant for everybody!
Exactly zuffin. Learning and routing is much much more powerful than pure twitch reactions. In fact the genre would be much easier if you could just flail through it and succeed ha
I'm in my 40's and I'm a pretty spry FPS player. In fact I don't think my skill level has peaked or I'd probably have gotten bored by now. It's always been about time.
Mechanics matter but people over estimate how important they are. For example, many people have won fighting game tournaments using characters that aren't as complex mechanically. Tekken is my Jam and characters like Claudio and Jack have won major tournaments. In general there are some low ranked players with good mechanics they can land sick combos. But that's pretty much all they can do, their fighting game fundamentals are lacking.
absolutely, don't forget the year that Panda won the Tekken world tour, literally the worst character in the game. Fundamentals and knowledge are not to be underestimated :-) Avoiding the puddle, before he became a streamer, had a bunch of really cool podcast eps on the subject of skill vs tiers.
@@TheElectricUnderground I like you even more now. Yeah Rangchu's twt run was amazing he even beat the best Devil Jin player at the time proving your point. I'll check out those podcasts young Aris was quite wild I'm told.
Unless a player has some sort of debilitating condition (arthritis, carpal tunnel, stroke, etc), I think players only get better as they age just because experience is invaluable. The only exceptions would be a game that requires you to mash a button repeatedly that cripples your hand or something like Dance Dance Revolution or Track and Field where none of us are going to be as light-footed and agile as we were when we were kids (unless someone was a fat kid and is now lean and fit lol).
Also, I see lotsa people quit games because they're "bad" at them, as they say... when they're only a few hours in. Dudes, you aren't bad, you're just inexperienced and new to the games. New or inexperienced doesn't equal bad.
Right I think part of that is that most games made today are built so that experience and learning are only a small factor. The games hold the player's hands so much that most of the time they can beat the game in one long very drawn out run ha
Let's not mince words - reactions aren't everything, but when someone has much SLOWER than average reactions (like me), arcade games are going to be much tougher. I have yet to hear of a single person with slow reactions (not average, but noticeably slower than average) going on to be a top player in a fighting game, shooter or other arcade game. I'd really love to be proven wrong (yes, there are a lot of old school fighting game vets and other super-players around, but watching their videos it's pretty clear to me that they're reactions, while maybe not as sharp as when they were in their prime, are still pretty amazing). But yeah, of course practice and familiarity is more important than anything else. I've learned to balance my expectations when it comes to arcade games. Like with shooters, getting a top score is going to be very unlikely for me, but getting the 1cc in most games I think is still within my ability (both in terms of mechanical things like reactions/dexterity and time I'm willing to devote). Also, to end on a more optimistic note, as garbage as my reactions are, I do think they've gotten a frame or two faster since I was a kid... at least according to the Samurai Kirby mini-game in Kirby Super Star.
Hell yeah, and I remember watching some dumb video back in the day where mike tyson is supposed to test the limits of human ability. Smash cut to a few years later and people can beat him casually with a bit of practice lol.
I always found it silly when people would talk about being too old for games, as if they’re aging athletes who just can’t keep up with younger folks. I’m not saying things don’t slow down a little as you get older, but to hear them talk you’d think we all immediately get Alzheimer’s on our 40th birthday.
This topic hits home. I'm 47 raising a 9 year old and a full time job. Steady chipping away at Dodonpachi Dfk, and Akai Kattana and making progress. Slowly making progress but progress none the less. Most importantly I'm having a blast. Daily I get about 20 min in the morning and about an hour at night 2-3 nights a week.
Exactly my friend, same here with me and my ketsui omote. I can't sit down and grind out 4 hours sessions regularly anymore, but I can chip away at it bit by bit and it's still very fun.
Im 38 working full time as administrator and teacher as well as raising my five year old daughter, and felt exactly the way you described. The thought of Attempting a bullet hell seemed like... Well ... Hell.
The thing is I remembered how much fun I had with 1943 on NES as a kid. In college I downloaded r-type and soldier blade on my Wii. We had so much fun taking turns playing them! We never beat any of them but had tons of fun playing those in-between rounds of halo 2
A few weeks ago I downloaded Capcom arcade stadium and have been having a blast on some of those shmups. I discovered your channel and a couple others and have been practicing Giga Wing, which I've fallen in love with
I can say without a doubt that I'm better at shmups now than when I was a kid, and substantially better at gigawing than I was a few weeks ago . I'll keep working until I can 1cc it - which feels possible. Something I never thought would be possible for me
Thank you for all the helpful resources you've provided!
My dad used to be pessimistic about games until he just finally got bored at work and played the Rainbow Six copy I installed for him on his laptop. Being 50, he completely finessed it, level capped, has all the rare gear and bought zero microtransactions, he even bought himself a R6S bomber jacket being a fan. Insane. $14 well spent 😆
I tried letting my grandmother with dementia play Pac-man, she was completely lost but eventually, I could sense she was slowly understanding it, pretty sure it could've cured her dementia if she didn't get tired so easily.
Games are a blessing for the elderly. Sadly they grow up with this idea that games are for kids. The Wii is the closest we got to making old people enjoy games.
That's a really cool story about your dad ha. My parents have 0% interest in games other than my dad liking pacman. That's a good idea maybe I'll make him a little pac-man machine with arcade stick installed and everything ha.
@@TheElectricUnderground - My mother plays pac-man occasionally thanks to my cheap windows tablet/mayflash arcade stick combo.
oh and *wink wink* - 'CoinOPS' seems like a pretty convenient way to startup a Retro sanctuary.
I'm in my mid 60's , always loved shmups .
Arcade games were always meant to be difficult , i love the challenge !
You are the person who got the right to say "back in my days".
Ha ha , yeah it sort of creeps up on you ...
I was into video games from space invaders onwards . Back then not many adults played the games , times change !
I just discovered that I love shmups at the age of 40. I also have a chronic health condition where I get too tired to do much of anything. That doesn’t stop me!! I’ll throw up some good scores on the online leaderboards. You’re never too old.
Started playing Bullet Hells in my late 40’s, I’m now 51. A word not used often enough with shmups is strategy. They are strategy games, not puzzle games, not reflex games. Granted, some muscle memory is involved, but without a good strategy you’re doomed to fail. Mr Wendal on games has a great video on this called Bullet Hell Shmups: More than dodging. He explains it quickly and simply. I highly recommend it.
I love that video.
As I’ve played more and more I’ve definitely felt this. Been playing ZeroRanger and yes, having prior knowledge and being able to plan is the fun part of the game. I think the reflex mindset comes from people who take a glance and assume that makes the game.
I've been rolling my eyes at the whole "too old to do X" since I was 14 years old.
for sure ha. Especially these days where people have such longevity, it's a silly claim in most cases.
I have pretty limited time with my kids. Im in my early forties. That said im slowly getting that little bit further in mushimesama without dying, and its fantastic when you hit thst moment where you find the path to success. I may not be very good but i enjoy shmups a lot more then when i was younger.
Yes with limited time what I do now is force myself to focus on one game at a time and one goal at a time. So I ve taken a year to chip away at the ketsui omote 2 all but I can't switch games until I get it ha
Yes im trying to force myself but its hard with so much choice! I do enjoy focusing ob one thing though i find it almost meditative when you get in the zone
I'm 48 and still enjoy these ultra difficult games. It may take me way longer to conquer them than they would 20 years ago, but it's all about persistence!
I kind of have strong...feelings about the whole "I'm too old to play hard games anymore, I have a job" argument. It rubs me the wrong way because it implies that video games are something to be crossed off a checklist, where if you aren't making progress towards seeing the credits, uninstalling it, and moving on, you've wasted your time. But that's not true! So long as you're having FUN in the moment-to-moment gameplay, you're not "wasting" your time! It boggles my mind how so, SO many people thinking constantly being in the action in Mushi, Ghosts N Goblins, etc is a "waste of time," but somehow spending minutes in menus to get +2.3% crit chance in your supposed action game or holding the analog stick forward in a flat field between points of interest in an open world ISN'T wasted time. Time that you're having fun isn't wasted, even if you're not "progressing" towards seeing the credits!!
And look, I get that for some people, replaying a game for mastery isn't for them. And that's TOTALLY FINE. But I just don't like calling it "wasted time," as if the only people who can get enjoyment out of hard games are people with nothing better to do, lol
Yeah I get having less free time, but we live in the western world so everyone has some degree of free time. Like people saying they are too old and don't have time to practice, probably have plenty of time for social media and doom scrolling ha
One thing that helped me, when you mentioned that transition between consciously thinking about moving/dodging/etc. to more instinctual gameplay was really dialing in to the sound my fingers make tapping my arcade stick. I guess I'm more of an auditory person but specific sequences of taps and their sound helped me know what to do with my hands if that makes any sense! Listen to your fingers! Great video, thank you very much for putting in the work to make it!
Gotta worry less about your increasing reaction times, and gotta worry more about your increasingly large number of mental blocks.
People almost never get to use their reflexes when playing, their reaction times are affected too much by having to process a ton of information. The less info you have to process, the more you can chip away at your reaction times until you're left with something very close to your reflex. That wall exists but getting to it pretty much requires you to get good at the games to begin with, since it's the only way to simplify the huge amount of data coming in. And like you said, shmups are memorization friendly anyway, I mean look at Psikyo the first loops have almost no pattern randomness to speak of.
While I can't say I'm a great Shmup player, at 48 I play better than when I was 17 and just set the games to easy to beat them and move to the next one. Which also led me to better understand and appreciate the genre. I still need to sharpen my skills, but despite needing glasses to overcome a true handicap (can't do much of I can't see the screen, lol) there's nothing related to age regarding my performance playing shmups.
Excellent video- it accurately describes my journey in shmups so far.
Started out playing on reflex and felt like this genre was just immensely stressful. Now as I gain experience/skill and git gudderer I sometimes enter this blissful state where it's like I'm not even looking at my ship and I'm just waltzing through patterns. Its awesome and the real appeal of shmups.
Now I find I only use reflexes after I make a mistake or I'm playing a level/game for the first time.
Yes the lightning reflexes are a nice skill to have when you get thrown off route and you are scrambling to get back into position, but as far as your overall gameplan, you can get incredible clears by focusing on routing and knowledge of the game.
One of my favorite archetypes in anything ever is the old guy that is an absolute god and beats everyone in whatever it is that he does, so to me old people are that are really good at anything are basically the coolest people ever. I wonder how far these older players will go.
Darn, i guess I just have to get gud now. Great vid, can't wait to see the new shirt design in person!
You must git good, I believe in you! Also yes the shirts look fantastic in person, crazy detailing this time around :-)
The fighting game comparisons are excellent. The concept people are using a lot in the FGC nowadays is the concept of the "mental stack", which is about how much memory in your brain certain things take. The more you leave to muscle memory, the more brainpower is left to think about things that matter. In fighting games that's thinking about what the opponent might do, in shmups it's about what's coming next in the run. In the end, I think the reason people feel too old is because they actually lack the time (and/or motivation) to practice and get more shit into their muscle memory.
I think the mental stack analogy is interesting, I've heard that one a time or two. I tend not to think of it that way and instead view it like the eye of a camera. If you are focusing in on your movements and how to make the ship move where you want, then you can't "see" in a mental processing sort of way, the bullets that are about to smack right into you. The mental stack things works as well, but I don't think the brain is actually able to stack a bunch of factors like ram. Instead what you do is learn and know what is noise so that you don't have to focus on it. Like in a big complex bullet pattern, if you try to mentally process that whole thing your head will explode. Instead, you learn what are the key areas of the pattern and then zoom in on them for observation, and the rest of the pattern blurs into the background :-)
if you're at the point where you calculate how much energy you use on "thinking", you have gone too crazy min-maxing your "energy household".
And I disagree that we should use "less energy" or spend less time thinking. The opposite is the case.
"Use it or lose it". The more you think, practice and do things, the longer you will be healthy, fit and in good shape. It goes for your body as it goes for your mind. There are athletes in their 50's, who are fitter than people in their 20's.
There are chess masters at 80, who think more clearly and more fast witted than people in their 30's.
Never stop using it. Never stop improving it. Believe in yourself. GROW.
@@Mayhzon based energy user
@@jaykelley103 Appreciated.
Stay strong, fren. And if you're not, do your best to get there. I'll root for you.
💪
These are games about planning, repetition, and practice. I think of it like playing an instrument. You just get better as you get older at an instrument (until arthritis sets in or you lose strength in your hands/fingers). There's no reason you can't do the same with shmups
That is exactly right david and if you switch over to arcade stick even arthritis won't slow you down much as most of you movements on arcade stick are larger movements of the hand and arm, rather than the fingers :-)
@The Electric Underground Ha, I'm the opposite. I recently made the (literally) painful discovery that I can't play stick because it triggers an incredibly painful tendinitis flare-up in my button hand. I was playing Super Turbo and SFA2 for about an hour a day on Fightcade and really enjoying it until one day it felt like a lobster was pinching the inside of my wrist and my fingers got tingly. The pain lasted for a few weeks and has pretty much gone away after I did a pretty intense stretching routine every day.
I was playing Chun-Li in both games and I thought maybe I had a flare up because of how hard I was mashing for Lightning Legs and Custom Combos.
But even playing shumps with auto fire on triggers it. I busted out the stick again after a couple of pain-free months to try it out with DOJ and I started to feel a burning pain in the back of my hand just from holding down the shot and laser buttons.
So I went back to pad permanently because the pad doesn't hurt me.
Practice and dedication is really one of the key to get better, not just in shmups, but on everything in life. I’ve been practicing Touhou 8 on Normal, especially on stages 4 to 6. I’m getting better beating Marisa on Stage 4, but still having problem on Stage 5 midboss Tewi. I’m also practicing most Psikyo shmups because I’m having a problem with them like Strikers 1945 III. Also, age is just a number. No matter how old you are, you can still play difficult games like shmups. Though you need dedication and determination.
I'm guilty of one such "2old4that" comment myself, but I swear that I grew 5 years younger just watching this video alone! Btw those arcade bam-bam-bam inputs reminded me of bim-bim-bim cadence of Bukowski's poetry. There is that simple honesty in both, something those AAAs lost for most part.
You get triple cool points for referencing Bukowski in your comment ha. That bim-bim-bim quote of his, is one of my favorites. The man was keeping it real back in the day, maybe a bit too real but still thank you very much for the quote and flattering comparison!
Been watching a lot of your vids man. been really enjoying your channel.
I think the "wall" will fall after the first 1cc. My suggestion is follow what Mark said and also stick to a single game. The feeling after doing the 1st 1cc is difficult to describe and is not just awesome by itself it will also help to realize how cool was the journey and in the next game the mindset, the anticipation and the confidence obtained will make it easier. Choose a game, stick to it, enjoy.
Yes if you want to advance in the genre you do need to settle in and push through a 1cc, because jumping from game to game is only avoiding the crucial grind :-)
I 100% agree.
I'm 40 and consistently progressing further and further in Gunvein, DDP Daifukkatsu Black Label, and Mushi on one coin. No excuses! Time is tough, but if you're 40, you should know how to make time to do things you enjoy, which should be shmups.
Yes having less free time just means that you should cut out all social media and use that time to play shmups ha
Recognize pattern type: is it homing at you? Is it just moving in a set direction? How is it telegraphed? Recognize threat type: innocuous little tank blast a super fast, near un-dodgeable blast? Target innocuous tanks first then. Recognize the proper tool for the hazard. Recognize patterns. Memorize what's memorizable. Get ok at dodging because you are going to need to correct unfortunate maneuvers . Recognize mechanics that are built in to help you with particular hazards, and utilize them properly. Use your power and don't horde it for a rainy day
By the time I get to a clear, I would actually ignore most bullet patterns, since they shouldn't threaten me as long as I follow my route. Like I don't even SEE them anymore. It's probably not the optimal way to play, but I basically have tunnel vision, where I only focus on the next visual cue I'm expecting. If the visual cue happens to be a bullet, then yeah I'll see that bullet. But if I'm looking for an enemy, then I wouldn't see any bullets.
If there are any stray bullets that move in a way that I didn't expect, I can get hit by it and wouldn't even know what killed me (until I check a replay), which shows how narrow my focus is. And if I have to deviate from my route, it quickly turns into a total trainwreck. Even for moments where I do some seemingly crazy dodges, it's not like I'm reacting to them. I'm either panicking and moving randomly, or I have an idea of how the bullet patterns are so I know roughly how I can move to delay my death a little longer (e.g. a tap dodge to narrowly avoid some aimed bullets).
What I'm trying to illustrate here is that my playstyle is the complete opposite of what these people expect. I rely purely on routing and resource management, not reflexes. In fact, my reflexes are super slow. Going back to that stray bullet example, even if I saw it coming, I would blank out and just let myself get hit. That's how slow my reflexes are; I need a second or two to react. And yet, I can still get 1cc's. Reflexes help, but they're unnecessary in this genre.
I guess that explain why I manage to overcome Segment 6 of Hellsinker. The after boss wave pattern used to be my worst. When I first manage to reach the part, I tried to let my reflex and somehow the popcorns just fills the screen with undodgable bullets. When I tried to stay still whenever each small wave spawns, it somehow feels like the pattern got a bunch of obvious holes I can safely say. After that, it felt like I am just wagging my character in a very specific movement instead of a ball bouncing everywhere.
Btw, have you seen the game called "Tevi"? It is said to be a sequel to Rabi-Ribi
@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 Yes I did! Super excited for it!
Sorry DOJ M2 port, but I think Tevi's gonna be my game of the year.
@@lunaria_stg I won't be playing that any sooner since I need to try Rabi Ribi first.
@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 Oh yes, please do!
People are actually too old to have the time to train on a challenging game due to obligations. And that's sad. I want to learn a lot of them. No time.
Make time
Watch him then make a video where he explains how you actually have time and your subconscious is lying lol
Age is usually a factor with responsibilities and obligations but more almost anyone on a varying age range can have too much responsibilities and obligations to deal with the the amount of time it takes to get good at a skillful video game on top of all that
@@rafresendenrafresenden.1644. I wish I could. I spent my spare time reaching to level 3 and die on the boss. 😊 Then go on to sleep in order to fight the next day.
I m in the same boat myself believe me. But I think one very simple solution is instead of playing a variety of shmups and hopping from game to game, reallocate that time to a single game and push through the difficulty wall - which will translate to other games in the future
I’m 48 and started playing shmups 2 years ago. I get better and better with every game. It’s so not an age thing.
i really thought the same thing when i played sekiro. i thought "thats it, this game is on another level from the dark souls i knew, my hands are incapable of what they are asking me, i better drop it or else i'll be wasting my time". after beating my head agaisn't a wall for a month (haven't finished it yet) i can say sekiro is my favorite game currently lol.
When I was younger, I tended to play slower-paced games focused on strategy, or exploration. It wasn't until I was in my 30s or so that someone showed me a video of Warfork (then called Warsow), a very fast-paced FPS. I jumped in and started playing, and it took me quite some time to get the hang of advanced aFPS movement, like bunny-hopping, strafe-jumping, etc. It wasn't because I was old, but because I had never played a game like that. But now that style of movement comes to me naturally, along with other concepts like player prediction and powerup timing, which frees me up to concentrate on the actual fight.
More recently, I jumped into classic Quakeworld multiplayer, in which the movement is different from many of the games that came after. The item timings were all off from what I was used to, and weapons are much faster and deadlier, throwing off my prediction. I essentially had to relearn these concepts to get good at the game. It took about 1 month, and I didn't even grind it that hard. And I'm in my 40s.
For me, that story is the same for other game genres, including fighting games (I didn't really get into them until Guilty Gear XX on PC) and shmups. The first stage of getting into the games, adjusting your mindset, and getting the basic muscle memory takes time, but once it clicks, it's a skill that can carry into many other games in the genre, even if they aren't similar in any way. I never really played a beat-em up until SoR4 recently, but the skills I had from fighting games somehow carried over very nicely.
As for the time it takes out of daily life, I certainly don't spend as much time gaming as I used to, but even putting in an hour every other day or so, I manage to get pretty decent at most of the games I play. I probably won't ever be top tier, certainly not without actually dedicating myself, but I don't need to. The only person I'm competing with is past me.
I really agree with your framing here. I c ame back to shmups twice in my thirties after having only played a handful of them a little when I was much younger and I both got much better at them and enjoy them more as a genre at 39 than I did in my teens.
If players have arthritis or especially poor eyesight that create issues in many other genres, then I could see that being an issue in shmups as well - but age in general and reflexes aren’t nearly as big an issue as a lot of people seem to think, much like the way people misperceive age in relation to powerlifting.
And if a person is short of time, then Ketsui Deathtiny’s Bonds and AC Challenge Mode are perfect for short training sessions. :)
Yes I think people sort of over-estimate the ravages of time itself. Usually if people start to really decay in their 40s, that's not actually their age per say, but a lot of maybe less healthy choices piling up on each other. I used to race in triathlons in my 20's and distinctly remember much older men in their late 40s passing me during the runs and biking ha. And they weren't roided out or anything, just these tough balls of wax that kept moving.
@@TheElectricUnderground I know what you mean. When I was 31 and went to the USAPL West Coast Regionals, the best lifter in my weight class was 11 years my senior and a former military guy with a lifelong commitment to physical fitness. My powerlifting total was 472.5 kg and his was 635.5kg. When he was competing at 44 he was still pushing himself and attempting (and only narrowly missing) significantly higher weights in both deadlifts and squats.
I’m looking forward to getting back to lifting more again soon. It’s not getting older that gets you - in my case it was a car crash that sidelined me the first time and operations the next one (obstructed airway one time and gallbladder the next). It’s easier coming back to it than starting the first time. :)
This reminds me of how when I had all the free time in the world I would run into a problem on the opposite extreme. If I play something super difficult for more than around 4 hours it's usually in my best interest to take the rest of the day off or otherwise I would start to get fatigued and would practice incorrectly thus messing up my muscle memory.
Great video! My hands shake and I don't consider myself a quick witted person, but I've noticed myself getting better at shmups over the years simply through muscle memory and learning what to do and when. Even in fighting games where you DO need to react quickly to a mix up, learning when to expect the mix up is much more important than simply reacting to what you see, I think. On top of it all, perhaps if people who consider themselves to have slow reactions were to take an online test, they might be surprised at how well they do.
Exactly you don't need perfect dexterity and Uber fast reactions, knowledge and experience are certainly enough to take you through the core difficulty of the genre and I think even really high difficulty games. Psikyo you can memo most of the stages and patterns and those games have blistering bullet speeds. it s all about timing and routing
I saw a comment on a video upload of a rhythm game song talking about how rhythm game players back in the day (mid-2000s or so) are now too old and unable to Stay Gud at rhythm games.
meh, I am 35 and though I no longer play games like IIDX and DDR, instead being a traitor to Westerners by playing tablet/mobile rhythm games like Arcaea and Phigros, and I still enjoy the hell out of these games. Ditto shmups. I've gotten *wiser* at the least.
56yo here. 1CCed Mushi original last year. At 104% of Super Meat Boy and still working on it :) Have a Gigawing clear under my belt and a no-miss Darius Gaiden too. Raiden III though - had to play on Easy to get the 1CC. That bullet speed means it's too memory intensive to play at a higher level. At level 6 of Layer Section. Sub 2minute 40line Tetris clear but I want to half that time.
that's awesome to hear! yes my dad is in his mid sixties and now does all these very detailed paintings, and he just started painting about 5 years ago. So it's not too late to pick up new skills my friends!
Premium fun content right here. I had a good laugh at some of this video as it really spoke to me and the truth that was spoken. I love the video of the “old” dudes before their Astro City (and Redbull sponsored) play off. Pushing 50 I now have a Candy cab collection I once dreamed about and I believe just enough time to commit to enjoying and beating some of these amazing games. Now I need to know what you think about whether a few beers makes one play better. 😊
The same applies in fighting games. When I stop playing for a long time my mind becomes dull, I can't dp their jump ins or react effectively because I didn't visualise the next move.
Unless you are about 60, then your not too old. In my youth, I loved skateboarding. Skated everyday up until j reached 18, when I started going out to pubs and clubs. Then when I got to about 35 I stopped drinking and picked up my board again. It took me a few months but I was learning lots of new tricks that I couldn't achieve in my youth. It's the same with shmups. I 1cc lots of games I couldn't when I was a kid.
Great video. I love shumps because they give me a adrenaline rush in a fast time. The older i get the Better i understand the game mechanics and i do agree with many of tour points. The reality is that with obligations, responsabilities lack of time,etc we tend to value the most Essentials things in life (health, hapinees, family , paying the bills, etc). When we get older we do lose reflexes and even the other characterístics you mention in the video. I have a part time of teaching unemployed people of all ages and i have a harder time with older people. Some of them are tired and simply can t memorize and learn new concepts.
I found myself getting better at video games since I’m older. I sometimes go back to video games I found difficult when I was younger and I’m actually able to beat them.
myself as well! In fact it's sort of funny to go back to games I thought were really hard even as a teenager, like Donkey Kong Country 2, and fly through the games without any trouble ha. It's because now I understand the underlying design of the game and what effective play looks like.
Yeah, same here. I have such a better handle on my focus.
For me, the opposite is true. I can sit down now and play a game I beat "back in the day" and find myself sitting there getting rekd and thinking to myself "how in the hell did I beat this "back in the day?" I even have some Kryptonite games that I can't beat no matter how hard I try. Holy Diver is a perfect example, I can't even beat that game with Game Genie codes. There's a video idea for you Mark, if you have any games you can't beat make a "Kryptonite games" video.
My reflexes are worse than they were 10 years ago but I can get my "arousal" level under control much better. That means I can make better decisions and don't really need to rely on pure reflexes these days. I think there was a study about that but I forgot where to find it. Plus all the years of FPS, beat em ups, run n guns, etc. carry over into each other.
Depends on the type of game, too.
this channel is so specific, hack and slash and shootemups, literally my teenage years.
I think that most often when people say 'I'm too old to play hard games.' it just means that they don't wanna commit their free time to it anymore. Meaning, they're unwilling, not necessarily incapable. Though, if or when they do play it doesn't need to be several hour long sessions. What about 30 minutes to an hour? Once you're good enough, that's enough time to do a run of most shmups and even if you aren't - it's still better to sparsely, but regularly play than give up. Heck, ZeroRanger's White Vanilla takes, like, 15 minutes. I keep playing it because it's so easy to splice into any day of my life when I need to wait for something and have access to my PC.
I've been a hardcore gamer since I was 9/10 years old.
Played consistently from the arcades through pretty much every console.
I'm now 48 and I'm way better on shmups and fighters now than i ever was in my teens and 20's.
That's very cool to hear! I'm definitely much stronger of a player these days than I was in my 20's, even though I am certainly less quick in terms of raw reaction speed as I was back then. In these genres experience is so valuable
My age has been a huge advantage to playing shmups; I'm less attached to outcomes, and that makes it easier to "fail with intent." I see people discussing how age and the obligations that come with age limit their training time, but I'm making gains in a couple of ten minute sessions a week- I have two young kids and I basically game when they're asleep and all the housework is done. Figure for 5 minutes of enjoying your progress to date and 5 minutes of learning patterns in a new section; don't plan or intend to end on a successful note. The latter part of your session should be about gathering intel and taking notes toward your next session.
imagine living in the same world as Daigo Umehara and still caring about age to the point of not even trying to commit to hard games
i know or a lot of the Korean Tekken players like Knee and Qudans. These guys are at the heights of their skill and they are def in their late 30s or early 40s.
If it's like FPS or RTS it really is a young man's game tbh.
@@RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS77 why
@@yegormorozov7007 To play at the top level stuff like clicks per minute or reaction time actually are really important so the top players are all in their 20s. Not true for fighting games or shmups though.
@@RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS77 ur apm doesnt have corelation with ur age, its just a matter of how much information ur brain can process at once and its something that u develop overtime by practising and thus might be better developed of more aged player. Ur reaction time is the only thing that inevitably slows overtime but first of all it also can be trained (ive been coaching in league a 36 yo former CS player that had the reaction time of ~180ms at his age), second of all the difference is not detremential to the point of younger player having some significant adventage. U can make a point that when it comes to aiming some tracking skills like target switching and movement reading are highly dependant on reaction, and even tho its true there are SO many other aiming skills that can only be achieved by practice and dont corelate to ur reaction time so its debatable if the aged player with tons of practice behind his shoulders wouldnt have an advantage in that department.
If we speak about why theres so little amount of players over their 20s in pr play we have to look at 2 things:
1. Absolute majority of pro players start their cariers extremely young, and being pro player is one of the most mentaly taxing jobs out there, so its no surprise most of them will crash and burn before they even reach their 30s and they just lose motivation.
2. In a lot of games management of esports orgs are absolute cancerdogmatic about the age of players they sign, and if u are older than 20 unless u are alrdy made a name for urself nobody even gona consider u (as i previosly said i had an experience coaching in league and i know a bunch of such stories)
Love how real you are Mark & was stoked to see Schmup Junkie/Timmy specifically rocking an "Electric Underground" shirt.
I’m 39. I have Mania clear in SOR4, Normal clear in The Ninja Saviours, but man, died twice at the last boss in Cotton Reboot Arrange mode! Lol. I’ll get back to it at some point. Real arcade challenge is where it’s at tho. Another great vid man!
Great post, I’m 40 and have been thinking about this a lot lately. I want to limit my gaming to high quality shmups only.
That s what I do pretty much ha
With their stores closing late next month, any plans to cover a list of must-have 3DS or Wii U shmups disappearing from their stores? I know you’ve mentioned Sin and Punishment and Recca in the past and I’m wondering if others (like the Steel Empire remake) make your list.
Hmmm I have a wii u and never bought a single digital game. I think the gem 💎 on the console is starfox zero and it would be cool to cover it again :-)
As an older player with time limits you should probably only play shmups... Playing a good shmup for twenty minutes you can experience all the intensity, challenge and excitement that gaming has to offer, while it take hours of playing an arpg to even approach that :) I like the surfing and playing an instrument analogies. Another great post, thanks!
It's just like you said. The key factor is that older people usually have to take more responsibilities for other things in life. For example, I bought KOF XV two days ago on steam sales and was super hyped to get into it. I watched some guides about the mechanics, went straight into training mode and practiced the characters I liked. Then I realized what a huge amount of work I burdend on myself and how little time I actually have. In that moment I've got really nostalgic feelings for the time when I was a student in my 20s.
Nowadays I really have to keep it focused on the core mechanics so that I'm just decent enough to have fun in online matches. But I don't have the time to learn the frame data of a full roster or build the muscle memory for optimized combo routes with 1frame cancels or stuff like that. So I'd say age is definitely a factor, due to the changing social conditions that come with growing older. But you're absolutely right, that the real reasons are in the majority of cases not physically caused factors but the lack of game knowledge and muscle memory.
I'm the same way now Dr. Pepper. There are so many games that I have to trim out of my life and instead focus on getting right to the heart of something like ketsui, and it is really rewarding. Many players who have busy lives say they don't have time to practice shmups, but then you see them playing FF 15 or something ha
"THIS IS GAMING..." 100% AGREE👍
While I lost all my games, consoles, guides, arcade cabinets, shmup PCBs, Neo Geo MVS carts etc in 2010 as well as became homeless, I am slowly getting back into gaming still.
I LOVE and used to have every JP DC shmup(about half were LEs), many on/for Saturn as well as Genesis, Sega CD, Neo Geo, PC Engine and CD-ROM² and many more shmup games as well as JRPGs as I was always into "niche" stuff (I still like and watch laserdisc movies), and Shmups were and still are one of my #1 types of games.
I miss the Egret II I had with 2 player Sanwa Panel and converter to play non jamma based arcade games more than anything. I beat and got my 1st and still only 1CC playing the original Death Smiles PCB on that cabinet.
For me, the sit down cabinet+quality controls+29' screen made a for me tremendous difference. But I also loved Twinkle Star Sprites and other Neo Shmups on the 19' SNK official goldie stand up wooden cab I had I loved. Both were great.
I am EXTREMELY happy to at the moment have the ability to atleast play Super Famicom, Famicom/Famicom Disk System, and PCE games(an accident broke my CD-ROM² unit from my briefcase so I dont count that right now) again at the VERY least. Especially PCE as I love shmups but SFC as well as I love JRPGs and theres tons of greats and now thanks to many dedicated groups...many JRPGs previously unplayable now are and I love and am more thankful to all of them than they know.
I can also play PSX games but again...thats mostly for JRPGs as most shmups on PSX are so much better on Saturn...DoDonPachi especially.
Anyway, neat video about playing and getting better at shmups. I am 36 and if you read my opinion/reply to the message closest to the top about being unable to play due to age or family youll also understand me saying I lost/had discarded every game and game related thing I owned I gathered and used every cent I ever had between ages 8, 9, and or 10 through my early/mid 20's. It still eats at me and I wont hide the fact I am disgusted and disappointed with how greedy people are...but its mostly the fact that the secondary market (I followed and was part of all my early life) has been destroyed by a mix of greedy/careless(as they have all their stuff and they amongst other things wanted their collections to be worth a lot more than they were in 2012 and prior and they quickly succeeded as by 2013 not only had the fact having real copies of the "full"(stuff on ps4/vita etc that is basically just part of the game as stuff that should be there isnt as well as the game not running well as basically games now have no or little quality control and release broken to some degree and basically requires downloading potentially big updates that are not on the disc so it dont matter if you have the disc as you cant play it unless you can afford unnecessary streaming services and again even if you get the physical game it is just about irrellivent unless its something like a re release in some form of games we already could have.
Sorry for going off track but my point was that the secondary market has been since all the chain and retail and mom and pop and rental etc stores that played a HUGE role in keeping the secondary market regulated and generally reasonable from the 1980s-2010 and while loosing ALL my stuff completely destroyed me, the fact the secondary market has been taken over and is now controlled and basically regulated by greedy selfish careless resellers/flippers, youtube influencers who just talk about and "value" games while never really if at all even really played them themselves, so they cant and dont say how/why/if the games they are talking about are worth playing and why they have such an apparantly high cost despite how many copies of a game were printed/sold etc.
So yes, I am honestly a bit jaded at the fact my life fell apart because of shit I cant control due to my family thats now almost all gone who are self absorbed and never treated people like family should aka caring about and being helpful to one another and not take advantage of other family members etc...my "family" does/never did none of this. So yes, it bothers me that in a span of 2 years or less, the US game secondary market prices double and tripled and now its 4-5× as it was all my life as sellers control it now. Ebay's an auction site primarilly...for every 1 auction I see theres easilly 40-50+ listings that are priced only. No auction...and thats how they've done it and so fast.
Gaming is supposed to be something everyone can enjoy but now you gotta spend like $100+ just for a frigging gameboy and 1 game. And ofcourse shmups have been very affected as well in both console and arcade pcb etc forms.
Anyway, you made some quite good points.
But also, games(ESPECIALLY 2-2.5D released through the "8-32 bit" eras were very much about high scores(Nintendo Power and I believe Tips and Tricks, EGM etc had areas or contests or whatnot where you could send in legit high score pics and be featured, listed, win something, mentioned etc) thats very true. But I feel it was also more about trial and error and simply doing the best you could trying to get as far as you could but they were also very open with the cheating with game genie gameshark etc use. So I feel that its really the fact games could only be so big they wanted people to get as much as they could out if the games they owned as they were expensive back then with the games on carts more than anything else as the same game on CD(new then) was much less and offered a ton more space for content.
Sorry for the ramble...I will simply say, I honestly think a more in depth video should be made on this topic especially as shmups are I admit atleast easier to play for most people as its so much easier to tate a HDTV than a normal regular tube TV at the very least.
I love shmups but I still struggle myself as since im autistic with aspergers and adhd, OCD to a degree and such my mind cant handle holding 1 let alone 2 things in my head at a time and or be able to think before as I just cant function or use my mind like that. But I will say that memorization of what to expect and trial and error are big IMO when it comes to shmups. I sadly only have 1 shmup for Vita(newest game device I have) I got Vasara Collection recently.
Anyway, im terrible at wording and explaining things but there definitely needs to be more knowledge shared about playing shmups be they Cave/Bullet Hell, on rails, Vert/hori, Toaplan or Compile, or PC anime based style(terms lost in my foggy mind right now) or whatever. And not just shmups.
Play how you like, but games made especially in Japan as well as here from the mid 80s-mid/later 90s are tough for a reason. Your suposed to struggle as thats how you improve.
Thanks for video. Stay well and be good. ✌️
Another solid vid, well articulated description of what makes bullet hell so rewarding as a genre.
Thank you very much crispy!! It is a fun subject to talk about :-)
As a long time Touhou player the skill you're referring to here is something I like to call the ability to "read ahead" All bullets in a SHMUP function on some form of intended behavior. They can be aimed at the player, they can follow a streaming pattern of some kind, they can be fast, or slow, the key is once you learn how each of the bullets behaves you can learn to predict/manipulate them. It is this key skill that allows the "super" players to be as good as they are.
As for the age argument it's not that your ability to learn and execute changes it's HOW you learn that has changed. About the only thing my age has done to me in regards to gaming (38 BTW) is I suffer from mild carpal tunnel. My wrists get VERY angry at me if I "over do" things playing certain games. I can still button mash with the best of em so it's fine I just have to take more frequent breaks then I used to. Time is another big factor but most folk will somehow find the time for the things they love no matter how small.
For me the biggest thing was learning to see the whole screen, and then once I could do that better, learning to quickly calculate bullet trajectories. I think that's the big reaction gap - I'm still reacting to the bullet patterns, but my brain has figures out where the gap will be way before the bullets get to me. It's funny you mentioned legacy skill, because I think you're right, a lot of it doesn't transfer _into_ shmups, but they have tons of skills like that which transfer super well _out_ of them. I've definitely become better at games overall since getting into the genre.
Another amazing gaming video! By playing Street Fighter at a high level with friends over a 30+ year period I have learned that experience and practice are indeed the way to master the game. BUT as I get older, you do find yourself in situations where you could do things when you were younger that you can no longer do the same way. For example, when I was a teen I could uppercut a jumping opponent on reaction without any anticipation, i.e. I can see the jump happen and still have time to uppercut them even if I wasn't initially prepared for the jump. Now in my 40s I simply cannot do that as well as I used to, I can still uppercut jumping opponents, but what I almost always have to do is anticipate a jump beforehand to give me additional time to react. What this means is that there are times I will take a hit in a situation where I know I would not have when I was younger. It is probably the same for expert shmup players, they compensate for the loss in reflexes by using their extensive experience, but that kind of compensation can only go so far; there will be times where you take a hit in a situation where you could have worked your way out of when you were younger.
So this is the thing, older players who are new to the genre really DO have it harder than younger players to get into the genre because they do not have youthful reflexes that can help compensate for their lack of experience. It doesn't mean that an older player cannot learn the genre, but I do think the path to becoming an expert will be harder (i.e. dealing with more failures) if you start at an old age versus if you started when you were a young player. I think it is like this with learning new things outside of gaming too, everything new becomes harder and harder bit by bit as we age.
Hardcore, nearly 100% scripted shooters really have almost nothing to do with thinking on your feet, it's all about routing in advance (problem solving), memorization, and probably the most important meta aspect of it all: keeping a positive, persistent attitude and accepting delayed gratification. Fully embracing the grind.
Definitely not all game genres are like this (even under the oldschool "shooter" umbrella), and not all gamers have the tolerance to accept that degree of sheer repetition, and/or the time, in the case especially of older people.
You can compare it to music: properly routing and executing a game such as Giga Wing would be like learning a complex classical piece, and then being able to sight read perform it flawlessly (or as close to flawlessly as you can get). By contrast, a twinstick shooter like Super Stardust HD on its endless mode, which requires pattern memorization for sure, but also throws random arrangements, permutations and combinations of predefined patterns at you, and then tasks you with surviving it all as long as you possibly can while optimizing your scoring, would be more along the lines of somewhat freely improvising over surprise sections of changing backing jazz music; these are two completely different design approaches and gamer mentalities, yet both within the shooter genre.
And since twinsticks are more popular than "shoot em ups", that would seem to suggest most people prefer a more reactive, think-on-your-feet style of gameplay, as opposed to the sheer grinding repetition that is associated with serious shmup play. I like both personally, depends on my headspace at the time, as far as what I want to focus on, but both also take tons of practice time to play optimally ultimately.
Still, the ADD-affected minds of most people today in our hectic computer phone, social media age are going to find either Giga Wing or Super Stardust HD endless getting stale pretty quickly if they are trying to take them seriously, and will most likely move on to some other game that is a) not so intensely fucking difficult and/or b) featuring of more opportunities for novel experiences (in the case especially of "shmups").
Serious shmup/shooter players are just sort of unusual people overall, I think, but that's also true of really hardcore gamers of any ilk probably, like speedrunners, or high level competitive multiplayer gamers.
And also the older a person gets, the more responsibility they take on, and the more tired they may become because of all this (and let's face it, many adults end up being more or less forced to continually take on increasing amounts of responsibility as they age, and they end up not terribly happy about it, and are wearied by it overall) the likelier these aging adults are to say "I don't have the time for this gaming bullshit anymore" and then hang up their hat on hardcore gaming for good, and pursue some other hobby instead, which is less demanding and stress-inducing.
I mean honestly, I think that's the reality of much of it as various types of hardcore gamers age: real life gets in the way, and thus they shift their time/energy commitments and priorities, whether they even may want to or not. In that sense, they may actually be "too old for it". Doesn't happen to everyone, but certainly some.
Yes routing is so much more important the reflexes. I think the raiden games are great examples because the bullets are so fast that clearly you have to route them ha.
Yes! Thank you! I'm going to watch the video now :D
I'd also like to point out something, and it's the importance of good quality hardware, and I'm not talking about meme hardware that has RGB and look "gamer", but actual good hardware, aim for low inputlag monitors with high refresh rates to have a good motion clarity, try different keyboards which feel the best for you, take the time to configure your games properly to not artificially introduce more frames of delay than necessary (turn off Vsync for the love of god and manually lock your framerate with your emulator or a 3rd party app).
Many people are actually good at games, but don't even know it because they're using a slow ass 60 Hz monitor with a ton of motion blur which makes things impossible to read. To me jumping from 60 Hz to 120/144Hz was a transformative experience, even for 60 FPS games which do benefit from the higher frequency!
I love your channel, my only suggestion is that sometimes you showcase some games but don't mention their name. I would love a tag or the name to be displayed so I can look that game up. Thanks and keep up the great work.
Though I do love shmups and am almost at the 1cc with Alltynex Second (Normal), I'm gonna play devils advocate and say another reason older people might look away from the genre is because the time needed to successfully complete these games may feel like a waste more than a sense of completion.
I myself have played some shmups and completed them solely out of spite. Though I have a lot more time to waste than most people, I could only think to myself "I could have used my time on something else, but here I am 1CCn' a game I didn't like at all... on all routes..."
Nice vid, keep it up.
Imagine being a 120 old watching this and thinking "YES YES YES! I CAN WIN, I FEEL GREAT, I CAN DO THIS, AAAH!" and then you say that getting good at these games takes time and it's like "never mind".
I train in the woods. I run naked on a path rigged with booby traps and paintball guns. My dodging skills get stronger every day. I also would recommend some truck stop speed. 1 ccs all day.
What a legend! The naked parts helps cut down wind drag, very clever.
@@TheElectricUnderground gotta reduce that hitbox
It's been a year since I started playing shmups. I was 35 then.
If there were times where pure reaction got me through a shmup, it's because I was playing on an easy mode and have had a few months experience already.
But as far as default difficulty levels are concerned, it requires mastery and understanding. I think the chess analogy was very good. I love playing Blue Wish Resurrection Plus. And even if that game has slower bullets than games like Mushi, you will still get walled if you dodge solely on reaction without considering the next waves.
I’m 55 very soon and play games most days. I’m in the generation who were the first gamers so why should I stop?
I am a shoot em up gamer with 40 years experience. It is all about memory and experience. Reactions are not a part of it because I keep getting better.
Yeah, true. I think fighters and arcade games actually have a player base that skews much older than most. Though, as others have said, carving out the time can be difficult.
The reason why people feel they need to be young to get good is the same for why people do better when they start young with playing an instrument or playing chess or even learning languages. People, when they get older, have more things consuming their lives, yes, but they also just get tired faster when learning new things and loose focus. Old people can improve a lot and their potential is still high, but the difficulty getting the focus and dedication to reach that potential is much harder. Just to be clear they should still try to be the best chess/shmup player they can and they will feel the rewards from doing it but at the same time if they are learning a new skill at an old age they have a big disadvantage that none of the best players in the world had.
Dam straight! If you aren't keeping Sharp, you are getting dull. STAY SHARP!
it's also surprisingly easy to get back into the groove of the genre. I think because it's so ingrained in the muscles, it usually only takes a day or two to get back into the grind and practice mode.
@@TheElectricUnderground agreed, with so many things in life from. Driving a manual transmission, martial arts, cooking, disc golf, skateboarding, surfing, and dam I could keep going. Most importantly staying healthy as possible. Healthy in mind body and spirit. Honestly we all know what's springs eternal.
Yeah. Right now I have a couple of barriers when playing. I am pretty sure its not because i am on my mid-thirties. They are more related to the precision of my movements (because I am newish to arcade stick), track the hitbox on esprade without really tracking the hitbox from esprade (which is already kind of funny) and the ability to come up with a plan to maximize the usage of my charges, abuse the high roof to breeze through certain parts... and execute said plan. Reflex is just not playing a role in there.
I've said this before on other places, but I'll say it here too. I'm 48 and I legit feel like I'm a much better gamer now than I EVER was as a kid. I remember in Contra on NES, I could barely get to stage 2 in the 80s. Just recently did a 1cc of the game on Switch just last week. Also did a 1cc on Mushi last week as well. These are feats I would have thought to be impossible back in the day. And no. Don't give me the "I don't have time" B.S. I have a family AND my own business. Where there's a will, there is always a way.
i think you guys are treating gaming way too serious. if people feel like they are too old for this, let them be.
it also depends on what you do at work. if you do physically demanding tasks all day long, then all you want at home is some easy time.
maybe you could play shmups hardcore mode but why would you play demanding games when your work is demanding enough?
i find it really interesting how many older guys are here. so many 40+ish people. (i am 40 myself).
This was such a great episode.
I'm really happy to hear that moondog! A little bit more niche, but I really wanted to give players who felt like they were stuck in the genre a bit of a pep talk ha.
really glad somebody said it. I feel like the only "old" guy here (on the internet) complaining about this. and then I get ripped for it. THANKS
What's that event before you showed last year's Kemonomichi? Need to watch that.
Also the background killed me lmao
Oh that was clover tac at stunfest 2013, here is the link ruclips.net/video/5oPLlOFANtk/видео.html
@@TheElectricUnderground Thank you very much!
Very interesting video ! I agree with you there : age and reflexes aren't gonna be your bread and butter for shmups. However it's just not true that there's no coming back for those who has tasted shmupsuperplaying. Just look at Prometheus : he's been playing nothing but gacha battle royale and AAA FPS lately, doesn't seem to miss his shmupping days much haha
Oh but you misunderstand what I mean. I don't mean that people don't stop playing shmups, what I mean is that you can't un-know the feelings and insights the genre brings. Like Bill in eyes wide shut. He and his wife may back away from what they have seen at the end of the movie, but that knowledge is with them forever. Their eyes are wide shut, get it :-)
@@TheElectricUnderground I see your point ! Great movie reference, love EYS
Overall, i think this video is correct. I'm not too old to enjoy hard games. However, i might be too old to reach the goals I set for myself. I've been practicing Mushi Arrange 1cc lately and I just can't find the consistency. Patterns I fully understand still clip me unexpectedly, with no chance to bomb because I didn't even feel like I was in danger. I can no-miss all the stages at times, so I'm sure if i just did 200 runs the stars would eventually align. I've played about 80 hours so far. I'm probably going to give up on this goal and play more casually. The game is very fun and I love weaving through the hectic patterns. But it's brutal practicing stage 5 30 times and seeing no consistent improvement. And arrange is considered one of the "easy" modes in this game.
Couldn't agree more with the video, and yep, "I'm too old for this difficult game" is a classic cope :^)
I've played rhythm games for almost 20 years off and on and I'm better at them now at 37 than when I was in my 20s. Even most rhythm games have things like adjustable offset so "reaction speed" doesn't really matter as much as people think it does. But a few recent studies have shown that even reaction speed itself (in the sense of "see thing on screen -> react to thing by hitting button") doesn't diminish in a statistically significant way until your mid 50s on average.
Oh that s interesting info about reaction time, that makes sense. There is this really interesting and funny documentary about brood war that national geographic did and they kept saying a player at the age of 28 was over the hill lol
I’m much better at skill games than ever in my 40s. One thing to also keep in mind is training tools and information access has never been as good as it is today. This alone is a huge advantage.
There was a long period of time where I just played for fun but thought I’d never 1cc any of these games. That was purely due to not having access to information. I didn’t even know my TV had lag!
Great Video!
It's all about practice!
Letting my reflexes take over the game gives me 2 deaths in first stage. What I train for shmups is trying to not resort to "letting your reflex" handle everything.
By the way, when will we get to see a video about "Simon says". I feel like games that apply that syndrome are the ones that really require reaction. Heck, Simon says only needs reaction and not the consequences.
Very soon sora, I've been planning it out. I think the title of it will be "Game Design Has Become Childish" or something like that.
@@TheElectricUnderground omg!! That title sounds like it can destroy the entire internet.
Awesome breakdown. Agree that its a huge excuse people like to fall back on. Even if you do lose some twitch reaction speed you can make up for it with anticipation skill. At 42 I complete way more games than I ever did, and games that were impossible for me back then are moderate for me now in many cases. Sometimes easy. Most 8 and 16 bit style games, and these types of shooters have patterns that always repeat. So aslong as your memory still works you can get your positioning right. Two shooters where I felt I could not really do that were Gun.Smoke for arcade and Super Smash TV. Those felt like mostly brute twitch reaction. Im sure those games have learnable patterns but I couldnt find them when I completed them. Smash TV atleast had more precticable enemy and crowd patterns then Gun.Smoke.
I play a variety of games as well as extreme modes. I used to play alot of online and was able to win Free for all matches pretty often in games like COD and Halo. I find I can still go online and react just as quickly, but these days Im more addicted to the rush of completing a high volume of single player games. I never really stopped playing, so that might help. Weight lifting was a main focus for about 3 decades, but the last 6 years have been very heavily focused around gaming, so that sharpened things up. The only thing that really prevents me from completing an extremely difficult game is the willingness to put time into it daily. Even if its just 30 minutes. It just has to be consistant with games that have limited continues.
Yeah and I'm not trying to be too pushy about people making excuses, but this one I think is important to discuss because I do think there is a sector of newer players who do believe this is indeed the main issue. So I'm hoping this video will help clarify in players minds what the sticking point to their progress likely is, and it is not pure reaction time.
@@TheElectricUnderground Yea, its a great topic to cover. Ive heard that excuse many times recently. Its understandable if you dont want to make the time to practice or suffer through the tougher periods, but I dont like when people say they cant do something, when its just a matter of putting in the time and work to get better. I used to think that reaction time was the key to skill, so its very understandable why some would feel that way. Later I realised there was many different types of skills, even patience is a huge one that takes work to build. Great to see these things covered.
People are just too quick to give up. I'm not an expert by any means, and my only experience is with touhou, but I've cleared all of the games on Normal, done all of the Extras, and I've got a few Hard 1ccs too (currently working on Lunatic EoSD). And where did I start? Slow reaction speed, dying on stages 1 and 2, barely knowing what I was doing. It just takes time and practice, and I'm tired of the mentality of quitting something you're not immediately good at.
By the way, sticking to a single game at a time absolutely is the best advice you can get for this genre. Unlike seemingly every other player, I didn't move on from each game until I 1cc'd it (so 1cc EoSD on Normal, then PCB, then IN, etc, and I can't move on until I'm done). It made me improve so quickly and come to truly understand the game first, so I can then focus on improving at shmups in general. Instead of trying to figure out game specific mechanics and routes, at some point I memorised my own one and could then focus entirely on execution, making me get way better as a player.
I have been playing games for over 42yrs now.. since 1979 infact. I am "possibly" the oldest QA Games tester in the UK - Im definitely the oldest one where I work. I can tell you without a shadow of any doubt there is no way my reaction times are what they where. However my experience of playing MANY MANY games helps a lot with anything I do play.. that said it is just not enough to combat the disparity between reactions and whats happening on screen especially with the bullet hell shooters. The rush of colour, sounds, numbers on screen, graphical effects etc. is all great - but my ability to be able to get far, even with practice on them seems very limited compared to how I used to be. Also I tend to find myself looking for bugs in games rather than playing the damn things too.. a habit I cannot get out of I think. So whilst im not too old to play them, and enjoy them at mid 50's age - I am feeling the limit of what I can play effectively much more. Or is that just me ?
Hm I feel like I got better as I got older. I know good and well I would not have 1CC'd Metal Slug, 1 lifed Contra and Super C or simply gotten through the American Hard Corps when I was playing those for the first time when I was 8-10 years old.
I don't know if it's true, but I heard and read that former World Chess Champion Gary Kasparov could think 13 moves ahead. I'm a pretty good chess player and would love to play Kasparov. I would get absolutely destroyed, but at least I could say I played him.
That s impressive! Kasparov seems like a pretty cool dude, I still think he was scammed by deep blue, such a fascinating story
Just got around to this, great vid. At the ripe age of 36 I definitely don’t feel that age is too much a limiting factor.
game knowledge lets you know what is coming way in advance, so you aren't reacting in the moment once you know the game. learning a game takes time, and different people are better than others at learning games, but breaking that process down of how to learn a game is the first actual step for anybody to play the game good. when you think of it like that, arcade games are still meant for everybody!
Exactly zuffin. Learning and routing is much much more powerful than pure twitch reactions. In fact the genre would be much easier if you could just flail through it and succeed ha
I'm in my 40's and I'm a pretty spry FPS player. In fact I don't think my skill level has peaked or I'd probably have gotten bored by now. It's always been about time.
Mechanics matter but people over estimate how important they are. For example, many people have won fighting game tournaments using characters that aren't as complex mechanically. Tekken is my Jam and characters like Claudio and Jack have won major tournaments. In general there are some low ranked players with good mechanics they can land sick combos. But that's pretty much all they can do, their fighting game fundamentals are lacking.
absolutely, don't forget the year that Panda won the Tekken world tour, literally the worst character in the game. Fundamentals and knowledge are not to be underestimated :-) Avoiding the puddle, before he became a streamer, had a bunch of really cool podcast eps on the subject of skill vs tiers.
@@TheElectricUnderground I like you even more now. Yeah Rangchu's twt run was amazing he even beat the best Devil Jin player at the time proving your point. I'll check out those podcasts young Aris was quite wild I'm told.
Unless a player has some sort of debilitating condition (arthritis, carpal tunnel, stroke, etc), I think players only get better as they age just because experience is invaluable. The only exceptions would be a game that requires you to mash a button repeatedly that cripples your hand or something like Dance Dance Revolution or Track and Field where none of us are going to be as light-footed and agile as we were when we were kids (unless someone was a fat kid and is now lean and fit lol).
Also, I see lotsa people quit games because they're "bad" at them, as they say... when they're only a few hours in. Dudes, you aren't bad, you're just inexperienced and new to the games.
New or inexperienced doesn't equal bad.
Right I think part of that is that most games made today are built so that experience and learning are only a small factor. The games hold the player's hands so much that most of the time they can beat the game in one long very drawn out run ha
Hey mark, are there any specific, currently available pc monitors that you recommend for shmups? Thanks!
Besides a classic vga crt I also have an Asus gsync monitor that I think is fantastic a.co/d/2WRm04n
That FG popoff in the intro hahahaha. You cut out the best part
Oh that s the famous arcade stick Sanford Kelly throw ha. I wish we could see the footage of the stick breaking apart ha
I think some people just don’t want to stick with a game and figure it out. They just move on to something else.
Let's not mince words - reactions aren't everything, but when someone has much SLOWER than average reactions (like me), arcade games are going to be much tougher. I have yet to hear of a single person with slow reactions (not average, but noticeably slower than average) going on to be a top player in a fighting game, shooter or other arcade game. I'd really love to be proven wrong (yes, there are a lot of old school fighting game vets and other super-players around, but watching their videos it's pretty clear to me that they're reactions, while maybe not as sharp as when they were in their prime, are still pretty amazing).
But yeah, of course practice and familiarity is more important than anything else. I've learned to balance my expectations when it comes to arcade games. Like with shooters, getting a top score is going to be very unlikely for me, but getting the 1cc in most games I think is still within my ability (both in terms of mechanical things like reactions/dexterity and time I'm willing to devote).
Also, to end on a more optimistic note, as garbage as my reactions are, I do think they've gotten a frame or two faster since I was a kid... at least according to the Samurai Kirby mini-game in Kirby Super Star.
Most of the games I play are difficult games. I’m in my mid-forties, can still beat Tyson no problem in Punch-Out.
Hell yeah, and I remember watching some dumb video back in the day where mike tyson is supposed to test the limits of human ability. Smash cut to a few years later and people can beat him casually with a bit of practice lol.
I always found it silly when people would talk about being too old for games, as if they’re aging athletes who just can’t keep up with younger folks. I’m not saying things don’t slow down a little as you get older, but to hear them talk you’d think we all immediately get Alzheimer’s on our 40th birthday.
miler has been playing touhou since 1997 and he has several world records and lunatic no miss no bomb runs
What a legend! Yeah I should have mentioned the Dodonpachi legend WTN as well
also proven that reaction times dont even really change until you're about 70 anyways. So yeah. Lol
You're not too old, you're just too busy and uninterested.
Exactly 😊
i feel like every time someone mentions reaction time in a shmup 90% of the time they are actualy meaning ship control
Absolutely and pattern recognition!
I'm 42 and getting better at Mushihimesama every day!