This £2K Medium Format Leica is a Bargain...With One Major Issue
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Why go to bed when you can watch a video about a camera you will never own
Kai, I think you should do a series on older digital cameras. That might be fun!
I would definitely watch that!
Great idea! Bought an unused/mint (like really, not that ebay lingo crap) Minolta 7d, still had the screen protector film on it, a couple of years ago and I enjoy using that one more than my Sony a7rii. All the buttons are in the right places, really intuitive to use and produces great images, even if it only got 6.1MP.
Maybe included lens cost. Dunk Asiatiese. Please and Thank You.
That would be incredible
Wow lok's dad has a camera store
It looks like one of those fake "DSLR"s off Aliexpress that basically have a webcam internals.
I myself am quite hooked-up to my H6D, but the S 007 is very popular amongst my fellow fashion photographers. It’s not fast, but the images are gorgeous and the camera handles great. The best feature of the S system is the lenses. These are amongst the best ever made. Combined with a 007 or an S3 textures and tonality of both fabrics and skin are fantastic. The camera itself is build like a tank. The 007 has a CMOS sensor and no corrosion issues. Whenever buying a 006 check if it has had a factory CLA. In that case the sensor was checked and replaced if needed. Two years ago, one of my colleagues was still able to have the 006 sensor replaced at the factory in Wetzlar. I don’t know whether that’s still a possibility.
Why is there only a grand total of 2 sample images in this video? XD
Not a bad find I picked up a Hasselblad H4d, 40mp back, 32CF card and 80 2.8 lens for under $3000. It's the best camera I have ever held and the image was very lovely. Old tech is still great if you know how to work with the limitations.
Anywhere that I can see some of these photos you took with it? I've been interested in purchasing the same setup.
@@twigster0011 what's a good email?
That’s the same sensor as the Pentax 645D which for many might be a better option. Getting one of the larger sensors would be *the* reason to get an older Blad IMO.
Within a year to 18 months - or thereabouts - Fuji is expected to have a DX format camera which is more or less in the 40 megapixel range. If memory serves?
@@scotthullinger4684 and the point being?
It's great that you met up with Lok!
He looks okay dapper in his new shop
From now on, call him Patrick
@@trym2121 is that actually lok??
@@krabuh I want to know this too! Haven't seen much of him in the past few years, so idk
@@jasonandrews7355 I looked on his channel and there is a video of him from a week ago, he looks nothing like this so I do not think that this is lok.
@@krabuh gotcha. I figured it couldn't be, since he didn't sound like I remembered him, but I've been mostly checked out of Kai & Lok for a few years, so I wasn't sure.
I mean... you also could find a newer-used Fuji GFX medium format camera, with more resolution, a non-corroding sensor, faster burst, more modern features, and cheaper but still brilliant glass for around that price too? Seems like a much smarter use of money if you're wanting to get into MF
The new Fuji is about 1700 for 2nd hand though :v
The Fujifilm medium format cameras are clunky. Nothing like their APS-C cameras.
@@Mike_M_Smith Well obviously they are. Making a medium format camera as good as the Fuji GFX the size of a Fuji X line camera would be incredible.
@@Mike_M_Smith eh, it's medium format... who's expecting it to be as nimble as crop or FF? Even so, the new bodies are way quicker, I've even shot birds with the 50s mkii
@@lord6162 it's medium format :v
Picked one up a year ago. The Black and White conversions out of this 006 rival my Original Momochrom M9! Stunning and little post processing for color shots. Just make sure you have enough light and this camera won’t disappoint. Love the CCD color.
The sensors do corrode at least as much as the M9. Probably as fixable by third parties (permanently) as the M9, but less demand. The M9 sensor is regarded as an entire reason to shoot that camera. This one is better. The AF is usable, but is more intended for studio work. It is VERY accurate though, which I can’t say for most PDAF systems. It’s build is fantastic. Lack of buttons is hardly a problem as it also has no features. People don’t complain about a lack of buttons on an M. As the M is the nicest range finder (and certainly digital one) this is probably the nicest SLR ever made. The thing to do with these IMO - Get the split prism focussing screen (which is amazing BTW) and adapt really nice MF glass to it. These had a short flange distance (relatively speaking) and take most MF glass. They have the BEST optical viewfinder you will find in a DSLR period. They have an amazing build. Lovely images. Super simple controls. Oh and there was AF adapters for Hasselblad H and Contax 645 MF systems that appear to work seamlessly. These are still an amazing camera.
For those saying buy a GFX: The early GFXs are kind of janky. They might have better high ISO performance and DR, but they are not nicer cameras in any way. They will never go down in history as being particularly special or loved. Their EVFs are awful. Their AF is pretty average to terrible. MF is pretty woeful with bad, low res sensor read out.
Obviously you've never used a Gfx. I'm a wedding/ fashion photographer and used a 50r frequently with no issue in the auofocus department. I frequently get compliments on the looks of the camera, its durability is fantastic have shot everywhere from the mountains to the sea. And its evf is fantastic. So I guarantee you have limited to no experience with the 50s or 50r.
@@Birdisthename so you get compliments on the camera’s’look’ by randoms, so it must be good? I didn’t say it wasn’t durable. They’re about as durable as any X-Tx camera. The EVF is not fantastic. Clearly you’ve never used a good OVF, or even a really good EVF for that matter. The EVF itself is fine, but the readout from that slow sensor is horrendously bad. It pixelates like crazy during AF operations and has the typical Fuji aperture chatter. It’s slow. It is BAD when trying to use a focus magnification for manual focus. Is it usable? Sure! Does it work? Yep! Is it *good*? No! It is close to the worst modern viewfinder experience of any recent camera. If that’s *good* to you, all the power to you.
@@mattdebyl8806 ive shot on a leica m9/10 and the fuji xpro 3 and 2, as well as the panasonic s1r. So I know good evfs and certain in ovfs. The fujis isnt bad. Far from it. I havent had auofocus or pixelation issues with the evf or slow readout issues when using the camera for faster paced events or subjects. Auofocus sure isn't perfect in a contrast based system but its more than usable. To the first point if randoms and other photographers have stopped me on the street or while working to comment on the looks of the camera yes it looks good. Its nice to use a aestheticly pleasing tool.
@@Birdisthename I love how people just ignore these things confirming their bias. Recently it has become much more newsworthy with sites like DPR claiming the Z9’s EVF as being better than the A1’s. fact is that sensors (especially Sony ones) have to change their read rates etc while doing different tasks. This directly affects the quality of the image while you are looking at it. For me I find this INCREDIBLY distracting from the image making process. Some are better than others. Canon do an excellent job of providing a quality live view feed off their non Sony sensors. The GFX 50 sensor is horribly slow. It has to drop down significantly during AF operations in order to read out fast enough for AF (CDAF). Other Sony sensor cameras do this too. Fuji have always been bad for it, like my X-Pro2. But the GFX 50 is the worst of the bunch by fa fair margin. If it doesn’t bother you, all the power to you. This camera has a STUNNING viewfinder. It is possibly the best of any shipping camera ever made. That was my point. The GFX isn’t unusable, but it’s not *good* by any stretch. The 100 models are probably much improved. Dunno, haven’t used one. There are lots of reasons to buy a GFX over this thing. Lots of very pragmatic ones. But that doesn’t mean a GFX is the only answer. There are still lots of good reasons to buy one of these. Oh and I’ve owned the S1R as well which is markedly better than the GFX’s EVF, though still has pixelation during AF.
If the "build" is "Fantastic" why are these Leica's suffering from sensor failures?
The grey finish is gorgeous. Let's see a Leica TL3 like that.
Compared to this, i think secondhand GFX 50 or 50R might be a better value, albeit probably sans lens or mostly high SC already if those sold around that price tag.
Clearly.
But leica red dot is everything 🤣
I have no plans to upgrade my current kit, but every once in a while I look at GFX prices on eBay and salivate a little bit.
@@liuweixiong995 well, tbh i don't like camera design itself lol, it's curvy body looks very different compared to other Leicas. However, it's very impressive how they manage to fit a DSLR medium format at such size, in the era where every digital medium formats are extravagantly chonks. I mean, look at pentax 645d or most modular medium formats. Most digital backs probably has the same thickness as the whole body of this camera.
For many users yes, but not if you like Leica lenses and especially not if you enjoy the great OVF. I would never by an S brand new though. The lenses used are now quite reasonable.
It's a CCD sensor??? Weird. My only experience with CCD cameras is the Zeiss cameras on my microscope. And they run hot! They use peltier coolers to stay cool enough to avoid spurious noise and artifacts. Never knew there was CCD sensors in consumer cameras.
Pentax 645d was ccd too. Don't think it's been in consumer cameras for a decade.
Quite a lot of old APS-C camera's have CCD sensors. Same goes for point and shoots
There are a lot of CCD prior to modern cmos reign
All of the Nikon D cameras until around 2005 or so had CCD sensors and worked absolutely fine 😄
Actually, my D200 is still very nice to shoot with.
It all started with CCD (in the last century), before CMOS sensors became good enough to compete (they were only in very "cheap", low-quality cameras in the beginning). And yes, CCD runs hot, therefor the higher-resolution cameras with CCD don't have live view or video. No problem with a DSLR, as you have the mirror to see through, or with a rangefinder camera (Leica M8 and M9).
But you also need a 4000£ lens I guess?
The weird thing about this camera is that it has slightly more resolution than the 007 (next version). There are some benefits believe it or not. I know from using the 007 system. Excellent battery life. Especially if you use the grip. The two batteries will literally last all day shooting over 2000 frames. I shoot dance in the studio and this camera will keep up, it doesn't overheat. I only focus once manually. From then on I use a sync cable and keep it on a tripod. The camera has a lock function on it and I don't even touch it for most of the shoot. I have tried the Fuji GFX with Hasselblad glass for high sync speed. That system is nice, but overheats. The Leica is more robust. If you have the CS lenses you can sync at 1/1000th of a second. It is actually an amazing system. Suits old school photographers. Quite possible to buy CS lenses for around 2k each second hand which is less than GFX lenses. They are better made and have a nicer feel to the image. I bought the 007 for half price new and four lenses for less than £ 15k all in. It's making money for me. I prefer it to Fuji, Hasselblad or PhaseOne.
Ive traded all my Sony gear in for a Leica SL2, its orgasmic, going to take a few years to build up a kit of SL primes though..
Leica lenses are the best
Watching on the toilet rn
Yo same 💀💀💀
Lol same
The Leica S-E and S006 shows it’s age and like you said, only those that “wants” it will have it..
the LCD screen is last generation and pictures look like crap on that, dynamic range is non-existent, the lenses also need an AF motor replacement of not done already.. Leica Germany replaces it for $300 or so though.. but it’s a 5-6 week ordeal! Some photographers dig the pastel like colors from CCD sensors.. I’ve used them and yes, the colors do seem lovely but that’s about it.. it’s worth buying it as a collectible in good condition.. the grips come off easily and may need replacing as well.. it’s a high maintenance camera and a used S007 is a FAR better deal today! 007 is a league ahead and produces amazing images.. good dynamic range too
(EDIT: LCD resolution is actually same as in S007.. confused it with S2 which was last gen.. sorry! S-E has 921K dot resolution screen.. the S2 had a better grip on it btw..
Yes the 007 is probably a much more sensible camera. But also quite a bit more money. I think if you paid to get the sensor GLASS replaced with non corroding version, it should otherwise last a long time. The lens motors are awaiting failure. But as you say, not too hard to replace (for now). The aperture mechanisms also fail. So that’s fun. If I had one again I probably wouldn’t bother with the lenses and just get a H adapter or C adapter. But mostly I’d just adapt MF lenses with the split prism.
S007 is available for 4-5k which is not too much more (just 2x more 😀) like the store owner said, CCD replacement is not happening anymore I believe.. people get the S body to make use of the phenomenal S glass though.. I have an 007 and hardly use it.. mostly because it’s heavy! But when I do use it, it gives me a lot of pleasure. Lenses are also available for a major bargain these days in the used market with motors already replaced.. Leica stores will sell you for a big amount.. I’d look elsewhere
@@anandk199 CCD replacement is still happening (I believe). I had mine done about a year ago. Leica haven’t said they are no longer available like they have the M9. However there are third parties now doing M9 cover glass (the bit that corrodes), which would be a permanent fix. I still think these are most interesting with adapted lenses and manual focus. If you’re going to invest in the glass you would be much better off stumping up for the 007.
0:33 The seller kinda looks like a bit more hairy version of Lok.
Wow, such an interesting find! I would absolutely have no reason to buy one of these, but renting or trying out a $2000 Leica medium format camera would be impossible to pass up!
I want to go to that shop and just talk camera geek shit all day long
I own the S2 for several years. Bought it with the sensor replaced. There was never an issue it was a precautions. Not one forum or FB person has stated that there has been a corrosion on the sensor.
Now you should get a Mamiya ZD or some older medium format digital backs with 22Mpix and compare them to the Leica :) I've always had a soft spot for those 48x36mm sensors :)
It's tough to evaluate this camera fairly when Fuji's been in the MF game for a number of years now; excusing things like lack of physical controls, lackluster autofocus, etc. is hard when used GFX 50Rs exist out in the wild.
They are totally oposites. The built and ergos are miles apart, the 50r beats the leica in any other aspect though. It's like comparing a classic car with a modern one just because they have the same amount of horsepower
A secondhand Fuji or Hasselblad will be a much better buy !
3:30 I think most medium format digital backs also have very few buttons, although this is not a camera with detachable back like those but if you're putting comparison to those it'll be more fair.
No sample shots, what??
Do you even know Kai?
Skillshare are the sample shots. Keep up, it's all about the money shots😊
@@toddscamera i forgot, he's Jeremy Clarkson of photography
1 sample photo?!!??!!!??!!???!
What the FUUUUCCCKKKKAAAAYYYY?!!!?
I’d have that in my studio like a shot! My GFX is filling that niche though.
Kai forgets to do $ to # conversion...and you need to buy extra electrical tape for the badges!
There’s a lovely lock and pub downstream about 2 miles, doesn’t feel as grey cowey sale does. I look forward to your uploads, always makes me laugh! Have a good Christmas.. Gaz
you can get a sensor changed leica S006 or S2 (and btw, they still change them, albeit at a cost). The image quality is exceptional, as long as your shutter speed is high enough to prevent camera shake. I have a nice Fuji GFX 100 and the Leica images blow the fuji’s out of the water both in sharpness and color. The CCD sensor plays a part, and the rest is probably that the Fuji lenses resolve well but not as brilliantly as the Leica ones, and the S has a third of the resolution of the Fuji.
Funny, I just got an email about “test driving” the new SL2. Then I started down a rabbit hole looking for the S2, wondering if it’s cheap now… and yes, it is cheap. But if the AF is like the 5D mark 2 where I would get about 50% of my images in focus, that would be the biggest downfall imo for shelling out this much… plus the body may depreciate like crazy, but the lens will remain extraordinarily high…
biggest problem about buying it are the leica lenses that are super expensive lol
The real problems are the lenses....boy they are pricey!
I love this shop owner.
I love this guy ✌️
@5:11. Look at the reds and the rest of the colors.
Is this problem specific to Leica's application of CCD sensors or CCD sessors in Nikon, Sony, Olympus etc?
How can Leica not offer to replace corroded sensors? Do customers want a ticking time bomb?
Camera body isn’t a big deal, but lens is.
Red dot was 14k of the original price, but since the paint faded a bit, its now 2k.
I'm still using a Canon XT (8mp) and an Olympus Pm1. I just don't see much point in getting the latest whizzo sensor and whizzor bells and whistles. They both take pictures that are big enough.
Lok and Patrick came from the same square meter of the Earth
I recentky saw a Leica S typ 006 on ebay that looked new for a starting bid of $4100 and got 0. I wanted it. I didn't wa t to spend 1/3 of my checking acount though. You could probably find it in completed items.
Thanks Kai for information.
you are awesome man! I love the channel!
This camera line is the only one that makes it difficult for me between the the S-E and the Credo.
Probably okay in the studio… the Fujifilm medium format machines may be a better bet and not too much more expensive for the entry level model. It would be interesting to see how the results compare..,
very cool ! need more videos that compare the old expensive technology with modern! and reviews on old cameras! I personally have an M8 and it's a super cool camera!
Was hoping to see some photos of the Walton area when I saw the bridge
Always good to have Aperture input. Trusted pair of hands.
It looks like a cheap knockoff from Wish.
If you do have sensor problems , we'll as you said , it does have paper weight like heft .
Most Leica officinadoes would have no problem dropping 2k on a branded paper weight .
I go to this Leica shop in LONDON where they sale lots of LEICA cameras
4:09 That diss to Sony!
Leica nowadays is emperor’s new cloth and nothing else
It eats the A7S III for breakfast though, holy moly!
a very expensive Diana Camera then when the sensor goes pants :P
I would really love to own a Leica one day, but I don't think this one is a bargain. I like medium format for the better colours and dynamic range. But in that regard the s-e can't compete with modern full frame sensors. For better image quality than full frame you would need a sensor like in the hasselblad x1d ii 50c or Fuji 50R. And guess what: they can be bought at the same price point as the Leica.
У меня эта камера ассоциируется с Медведевым😂
why didn't you show some pictures taken with the camera?
Buy an SL and put difference towards a lens.
Enjoyed the review - and the humour,
Me sat here watching this with an S2 with sensor corrosion 😑😑
Small correction: Leica can still replace the sensor, but they won't do it for free unless the camera is less than 5 years old.
wtf
Is the lens included for the 2 k
Kai W, I am curious, can you also speak Cantonese?
00:15 ...scared to death...
A Leica video with a comments section complaining about Leica and 'wHy DoN't YoU gEt A bRiLLiAnT fUji iNsTeAd?'
I am shocked. Shocked!
wow it sharper than A7III for that old. this Leica is not just a name
No, not "sharper" than the Sony, just higher contrast (cartoon effect). Notice how the gradations block up in the Leica and blocks up less in the Sony.
Design reminds me of a Pentax K-01
Só the lens is included for 2K?
You are missing the eye cup
My m 8.2 doesnt have any problem eith the ccd sensor. Ive been using it for 10 years. 5 years in southeast asia which is very humid. I dont think it will be any problem.
According to Leica / Kodak response to “Leica M9 Sensor ‘Corrosion’ Due to Dumb Design Decision, Report Claims” the problem is sensor cleaning with to effective cleaning fluid / polish that removes the protective coating from the sensor filter. So keep using whatever you got working for you and don’t be aggressive, and your sensor will continue working excellently :-)
What happened to lok??
He turned into the ex-HK version of John Lennon :P :P :P Changed his name to Patrick and bought a camera store :P
***AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THE LENS PRICES***
£2K 感觉还是太贵30X45的传感器比列感觉要比4433来的好，17000人民币GFX确实更香
Get a gfx ffs
Right? I said the same thing...
beautiful video! Awesome that you go for gear far away from mainstream.
Seeing all those .... fanboys celebrating the latest variation of what they are into - I find that tiring! Probably age, being out-of-touch and stubbornness on my part
Yusss love this guy man
I was waiting for the talk of lenses. There is no way those leica lenses are getting any cheaper than when they were introduced and with a mirror in play, it would be hard to use anything but the leica lenses built for it... Unless im completely wrong and the lenses have depreciated along with the body
those are used market prices.. yes, the lenses are about half of its original price too if not lower.. the S 70mm goes for ~$2K and most other lenses are also available around $3K.. not from a Leica dealership though! their prices are still lower than introductory prices but much higher than what non-leica dealers or leica owners sell it for..
You can adapt Hasselblad HC lenses(with AF), classic Contax lenses (with AF), Hasselblad V mount lenses, mamiya 645 lenses.. They all render nicely too..
You say 2K, in Canada it’s $25k 😳
45x30 is like half of the smallest medium format you can do. 4.5x6 being the least medium format of the 120 sized roll film you can shoot.
So yeah, digital medium format isn't much. Even digital large format is just a modified x ray detector panel and really overpriced.
Still available new for £12480!!!!
Ill wait until its going for £200
There is one factor that I don't see people talking about and that is Leica lense quality, to me the only reason to own a Leica is the lenses you just will not find better lense quality, and that's the only reason to own a Leica ,I had 2 m6 and the lenses were phenomenal. I don't care what you say about any other brand out there, you can show me charts and all that but the images shot with other lenses just don't compare .
Definitely looks like those big plastic fake cameras a crazy family member would get you
Dan Chung has put on weight !
Nice jacket
Leica S3 one day…
Just get a used GFX 50S or 50R.
nooice nooice... verry verry nooice... love your videos...
I got to 2:40 before realising it is a ripoff and you do not recommend any such purchase.
I need the jacket ur wearing pls id
Lolz what happened to lok
so cool!
Eh... I don't care to have a Leica logo so bad that i'd buy this camera.
hmm movie about nothing, no one sample photo. About this system is small information, now is afortable, maybe somebody searching compromision with new systems. Do some more movies about this. Maybe next movie about m9 monochrom classic in 2021 ?