Designing a part for production procedures is the most important process of manafacturing. It takes a designer and a machinist to bring a part to production. You have to understand both worlds. Designing with industry standard materials is also key. The closer it is to shape. The less run time you have. Hence the part is less to make. Can it be made in several peices and fixtured and welded. Bolted or fastened in some way. A product is many parts. Knowing what materials need to be used. For weight and strength. Mild steel. 4130. DOM. Alunimum. Stainless. Titanium. This will decide your target market and price. Knowing different processes like waterjet. Plasma.. Lazer. milling. lathe. fordged and knowing. Billet. Cast. Both sand and releif wax. Draw forged. Friction forging. Standard compression forging DOM hydro forming.And knowing how to fixture parts for each process. What machines are available to you. 3 axis. 4 axis. 5 axis. In both mills and laythes. Dual rotating heads. Bar feeders. Part feeders. Just because you have a good concept or working prototype does not mean it can be brought to production. Without design changes for manafacturing procedures. The best job shops have a knowledgeable designer who can identify the changes that need to be made. And can bring the operator's to the table to see the tool paths and what is needed and where. If you dont design it to make 1000. It is just a concept prototype. Thanks for reading.
Great topic. Years ago me and a buddy were passionate about motorcycles and racing,he had a small bike shop and was already going to superbike races for his shop so we made frame sliders and Swingarm stands. The sliders were great for about two or three months, we sold a few grand worth then slowly more and more people showed up selling them for a lot less. I can count on one hand the amount of stands we sold. My advice from that and what I’ve learned since is . The product was way to easy to have made by anyone they probably all come form Asia now, we charged way to much. We didn’t do any market research or anything like that just showed up a pull a number from the sky. The first time it didn’t look like we were going to succeed we quit. It takes Time to build up a customer base or following.
This is HUGE! Totally agree - it’s all about finding niches now, because if it’s easy to think of - there’s probably a lot of low-budget cheap options at the moment, and throwing your at into that ring brings all those added problems.
My top tips (that Ian didn't cover)? Just a few.... 1) Intellectual property protection. Whether it's patents or trademarks or even just copyright, make sure the product you want to sell doesn't infringe on someone else's patent. But, do NOT under any circumstances actually go a read other people's patents! It's called "patent taint", in that the knowledge you gain, even if your product does not use that knowledge, there is legally no way you can prove that you didn't use their product idea to avoid licensing their patent. So, use patent attorneys and their research teams to determine whether you're infringing. Use the facilities available to you to defend your product from imitators. 2) Regulatory approvals. Some products are actually illegal to be made and sold. For example, you cannot sell and aftermarket product that modifies or replaces EPA-regulated emissions control equipment. In fact, nearly every part on a car has a regulation behind it. If it has electronics in it, you HAVE TO submit information to the FCC about electromagnetic (RFI conducted and emitted) interference. If it's going into a building or industrial or medical facility, insurance regulations require it to be UL/CSA/etc. Listed before a contractor can use it. Heck, the FDA of all people has to approve a design emitting laser radiation before you're allowed to even demonstrate it outside the company. The good news is that if you strictly adhere to government regulations, and you get sued over your product, that compliance will go a long way toward reducing any awards. Willfully ignoring the regulations, especially safety regulations, will raise the punitive damages in a lawsuit immensely. 3) Return flow. Most people think only about the obtaining of materials, processing the materials, and shipping that to customers. But, in order to be successful at scale, you are going to have to have procedures and policies and facilities in place for when the end-customer isn't satisfied. What are your return policies? Will you refund purchase price? What about restocking fees? Will you refurbish returned product and re-sell that? How will you store the returned merchandise? How will you dispose of it? 4) Processes and Procedures in general. You always want to have everything written up. As Ian mentioned in the scalability portion, you need to document everything, from incoming inspection criteria and pass/fail, all the way through your factory, into packaging and out the door via shipping. It's not nearly so much to just have a record of things, but to make sure everyone in the company is working from "one truth." There has to be one authoritative set of information that everyone is working toward, and held accountable to. If you don't do that, your life will become a nightmare the moment you try and move to the next generation of your product while still producing and servicing the old version. Okay, that's enough...good vid, enjoyed it.
Great tips I think your process/procedure advice is great for all job shops to people that make there own product as a job shop we all want repeat work without keeping track of the job you’ll be reinventing the wheel ever time it comes back
@CMTeamCobra My information comes from the legal team at Microsoft, circa 2008-2014, including Brad Smith himself acknowledging it. If you're the design engineer, and you use your knowledge of other people's patents to avoid their claims, your patent can be ruled invalid due to it having been obtained through tainted means. Similarly, if you're sued for infringement on that basis, not only can your patent be thrown out, but you can be then forced to license the patent you worked to avoid. That's my understanding, but I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, and you didn't pay anything for it ;-).
@CMTeamCobra And if your friends who created large businesses avoided the necessary regulatory approvals, they are fools, pure and simple. I know now-successful companies who tried to avoid their regulatory obligations and they ended up getting fined not only Millions of dollars, but their product was delayed by over two years because of additional regulatory review. That would be Lightscribe and their desktop laser, which they video-demonstrated for crowd funding before getting type approval, and neglected to include the FDA-required safety features. Class-IV lasers are nothing to f*ck around with. The FDA says right in their regulations that they have the authority to force the company to repurchase--at full price--every single unit ever sold, if they deem the regulatory violations severe enough.
@CMTeamCobra And from what I've experienced, putting "every claim known to man" in a patent is the quickest way to get it partially and then completely thrown out as invalid, whittled down bit by bit, claim by claim.
A good product is one that sells. As an individual who makes parts for customers and internal development, the money is in making a product that can sell which is not offered already on the market.
@@iansandusky417 Ian, I know the angst of trying to come up with something for meaningful and long term production. Been there. I would like to share something that you might be able to make something out of. Micro- hydro is the exact opposite of what it should be. You want a LARGE diameter hydro wheel in order to get the greatest leverage effect. Leverage is a force multiplier. Maybe you could make a bolt together large hydro wheel along with stainless steel wire that could be tied to ground stakes to stabilize the wheel against wind forces. Look at old timely flour mills and machine shops. They were situated on very feeble and anemic streams but they had large water wheels that multiplied the force many times over due to the leverage effects of the large wheel. No one is making a kit for the little guy who needs off grid electricity - they're all useless micro hydros that don't generate crap in the way of power. Maybe this would be something you could perfect and sell. You know the market would be huge and long term. You could also experiment with turning such a wheel sideways and using ducted wind to turn it. Just a thought........ :)
Great advice about being passionate/knowledgeable about the use of your possible end product, with the fly fishing example. You mentioned you had tried some things that did not work - can you share what happened - we tend to learn from failure?
Thank you sir! The fly fishing reel story is actually ours - my old man decided they would be a good pursuit - but thankfully we had this conversation more or less exactly before we got there. Aside from that, a friend who was looking to get into printing clothing and I started a very ill-advised Lakewood Machine clothing brand that never turned a profit but did leave me with a very large stock of Lakewood coats and t-shirts - so I haven’t bought one of those in quite some time which is nice!
@@iansandusky417 I thought the fly fishing story was from the heart! Great discussion you got going here. My Dad was the frustrated inventor at our Pop & Son machine shop in Coventry, UK. We made jet blades for gas turbines, and Formula 1 parts. There is no security that any job will stay with you - maybe that's true if you have your own product too. We started making solar shading for buildings (on the back of a successful one-off order), but we didn't understand the market, and the extreme power of the buyers.
had to laugh when you said fly fishing , worked at a place once had a guy come in and we made a 6 off trial pieces , with the promise of 1000 off orders when he had it right , he came in loads of times to skim a bit off here and there to make it lighter , over the next few years worked at a few places who had done work for the same guy , the place i still am, when i started, he came in he had hit them 6 times and they still made them for him at cost expecting the 1000 off regular orders lol .
What are some of YOUR top tips for developing a product?
eBay has always been a good testing ground for us to see if a product is marketable or not.
@@KeithGasper same
Designing a part for production procedures is the most important process of manafacturing. It takes a designer and a machinist to bring a part to production. You have to understand both worlds.
Designing with industry standard materials is also key. The closer it is to shape. The less run time you have. Hence the part is less to make.
Can it be made in several peices and fixtured and welded. Bolted or fastened in some way.
A product is many parts.
Knowing what materials need to be used. For weight and strength. Mild steel. 4130. DOM. Alunimum. Stainless. Titanium. This will decide your target market and price.
Knowing different processes like waterjet. Plasma.. Lazer. milling. lathe. fordged and knowing. Billet. Cast. Both sand and releif wax. Draw forged. Friction forging. Standard compression forging DOM hydro forming.And knowing how to fixture parts for each process.
What machines are available to you.
3 axis. 4 axis. 5 axis. In both mills and laythes. Dual rotating heads. Bar feeders. Part feeders.
Just because you have a good concept or working prototype does not mean it can be brought to production. Without design changes for manafacturing procedures.
The best job shops have a knowledgeable designer who can identify the changes that need to be made. And can bring the operator's to the table to see the tool paths and what is needed and where.
If you dont design it to make 1000. It is just a concept prototype.
Thanks for reading.
Great topic.
Years ago me and a buddy were passionate about motorcycles and racing,he had a small bike shop and was already going to superbike races for his shop so we made frame sliders and Swingarm stands. The sliders were great for about two or three months, we sold a few grand worth then slowly more and more people showed up selling them for a lot less. I can count on one hand the amount of stands we sold.
My advice from that and what I’ve learned since is .
The product was way to easy to have made by anyone they probably all come form Asia now, we charged way to much.
We didn’t do any market research or anything like that just showed up a pull a number from the sky.
The first time it didn’t look like we were going to succeed we quit. It takes Time to build up a customer base or following.
This is HUGE! Totally agree - it’s all about finding niches now, because if it’s easy to think of - there’s probably a lot of low-budget cheap options at the moment, and throwing your at into that ring brings all those added problems.
My top tips (that Ian didn't cover)? Just a few....
1) Intellectual property protection. Whether it's patents or trademarks or even just copyright, make sure the product you want to sell doesn't infringe on someone else's patent. But, do NOT under any circumstances actually go a read other people's patents! It's called "patent taint", in that the knowledge you gain, even if your product does not use that knowledge, there is legally no way you can prove that you didn't use their product idea to avoid licensing their patent. So, use patent attorneys and their research teams to determine whether you're infringing. Use the facilities available to you to defend your product from imitators.
2) Regulatory approvals. Some products are actually illegal to be made and sold. For example, you cannot sell and aftermarket product that modifies or replaces EPA-regulated emissions control equipment. In fact, nearly every part on a car has a regulation behind it. If it has electronics in it, you HAVE TO submit information to the FCC about electromagnetic (RFI conducted and emitted) interference. If it's going into a building or industrial or medical facility, insurance regulations require it to be UL/CSA/etc. Listed before a contractor can use it. Heck, the FDA of all people has to approve a design emitting laser radiation before you're allowed to even demonstrate it outside the company. The good news is that if you strictly adhere to government regulations, and you get sued over your product, that compliance will go a long way toward reducing any awards. Willfully ignoring the regulations, especially safety regulations, will raise the punitive damages in a lawsuit immensely.
3) Return flow. Most people think only about the obtaining of materials, processing the materials, and shipping that to customers. But, in order to be successful at scale, you are going to have to have procedures and policies and facilities in place for when the end-customer isn't satisfied. What are your return policies? Will you refund purchase price? What about restocking fees? Will you refurbish returned product and re-sell that? How will you store the returned merchandise? How will you dispose of it?
4) Processes and Procedures in general. You always want to have everything written up. As Ian mentioned in the scalability portion, you need to document everything, from incoming inspection criteria and pass/fail, all the way through your factory, into packaging and out the door via shipping. It's not nearly so much to just have a record of things, but to make sure everyone in the company is working from "one truth." There has to be one authoritative set of information that everyone is working toward, and held accountable to. If you don't do that, your life will become a nightmare the moment you try and move to the next generation of your product while still producing and servicing the old version.
Okay, that's enough...good vid, enjoyed it.
Great tips I think your process/procedure advice is great for all job shops to people that make there own product as a job shop we all want repeat work without keeping track of the job you’ll be reinventing the wheel ever time it comes back
@CMTeamCobra My information comes from the legal team at Microsoft, circa 2008-2014, including Brad Smith himself acknowledging it. If you're the design engineer, and you use your knowledge of other people's patents to avoid their claims, your patent can be ruled invalid due to it having been obtained through tainted means. Similarly, if you're sued for infringement on that basis, not only can your patent be thrown out, but you can be then forced to license the patent you worked to avoid. That's my understanding, but I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, and you didn't pay anything for it ;-).
@CMTeamCobra And if your friends who created large businesses avoided the necessary regulatory approvals, they are fools, pure and simple. I know now-successful companies who tried to avoid their regulatory obligations and they ended up getting fined not only Millions of dollars, but their product was delayed by over two years because of additional regulatory review. That would be Lightscribe and their desktop laser, which they video-demonstrated for crowd funding before getting type approval, and neglected to include the FDA-required safety features. Class-IV lasers are nothing to f*ck around with. The FDA says right in their regulations that they have the authority to force the company to repurchase--at full price--every single unit ever sold, if they deem the regulatory violations severe enough.
This is fantastic advice, thank you very much for sharing it - this is critical!
@CMTeamCobra And from what I've experienced, putting "every claim known to man" in a patent is the quickest way to get it partially and then completely thrown out as invalid, whittled down bit by bit, claim by claim.
A good product is one that sells. As an individual who makes parts for customers and internal development, the money is in making a product that can sell which is not offered already on the market.
Excellent advice!
You hit all of the salient points and you did that very well. I cannot think of a better way to explain it than you did.
Perfect presentation! :)
You are too kind! Thank you very much for checking it out my friend!
@@iansandusky417 :)
@@iansandusky417 Ian, I know the angst of trying to come up with something for meaningful and long term production. Been there.
I would like to share something that you might be able to make something out of.
Micro- hydro is the exact opposite of what it should be. You want a LARGE diameter hydro wheel in order to get the greatest leverage effect. Leverage is a force multiplier.
Maybe you could make a bolt together large hydro wheel along with stainless steel wire that could be tied to ground stakes to stabilize the wheel against wind forces.
Look at old timely flour mills and machine shops. They were situated on very feeble and anemic streams but they had large water wheels that multiplied the force many times over due to the leverage effects of the large wheel.
No one is making a kit for the little guy who needs off grid electricity - they're all useless micro hydros that don't generate crap in the way of power.
Maybe this would be something you could perfect and sell. You know the market would be huge and long term.
You could also experiment with turning such a wheel sideways and using ducted wind to turn it.
Just a thought........ :)
I'm on break from writing a program for fly fishing reels, lol. We make a fuck ton of them at the job shop I work at 🤣
Really enjoyed this one 👍
Thank you very much!
Great advice about being passionate/knowledgeable about the use of your possible end product, with the fly fishing example. You mentioned you had tried some things that did not work - can you share what happened - we tend to learn from failure?
Thank you sir! The fly fishing reel story is actually ours - my old man decided they would be a good pursuit - but thankfully we had this conversation more or less exactly before we got there.
Aside from that, a friend who was looking to get into printing clothing and I started a very ill-advised Lakewood Machine clothing brand that never turned a profit but did leave me with a very large stock of Lakewood coats and t-shirts - so I haven’t bought one of those in quite some time which is nice!
@@iansandusky417 I thought the fly fishing story was from the heart! Great discussion you got going here. My Dad was the frustrated inventor at our Pop & Son machine shop in Coventry, UK. We made jet blades for gas turbines, and Formula 1 parts. There is no security that any job will stay with you - maybe that's true if you have your own product too. We started making solar shading for buildings (on the back of a successful one-off order), but we didn't understand the market, and the extreme power of the buyers.
had to laugh when you said fly fishing , worked at a place once had a guy come in and we made a 6 off trial pieces , with the promise of 1000 off orders when he had it right , he came in loads of times to skim a bit off here and there to make it lighter , over the next few years worked at a few places who had done work for the same guy , the place i still am, when i started, he came in he had hit them 6 times and they still made them for him at cost expecting the 1000 off regular orders lol .
Haha yeah man that’s why now to me, promises of future orders aren’t even worth the air it takes to speak them - been there, for sure
How many employees at Lakewood?
We’ve got 7 people working here.
@@iansandusky417 Nice
Good topic...can't we see something else related to the topic? Too much of you(sorry) talking, show us some stuff!