Oregon Country: How The Pacific Northwest Almost Became Canadian
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
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The Pacific Northwest is a vibrant region of the United States. And British Columbia is an incredible province of Canada. But while both these regions are separated by an international border, at one point, it really wasn't clear whether Britain or the United States would end up owning it all. This is the strange story of how two countries jointly managed one region called the Oregon Country.
Stock footage is acquired from www.storyblocks.com. 
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Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver all feel very similar. The people, the attitudes on life, general outlook, etc. It really does feel like a cohesive territory despite being two different countries.
Houston is so much more foreign to me than Vancouver despite being in the same country.
Long live Cascadia!
One might even argue that “Oregon Country” continues to act as a cohesive political, cultural, and economic unit despite the 49th Parallel. Some have even called for the region to split a way into a region called “Cascadia” based on many of the shared values in this region. Of course, this will never happen, but it’s obvious that we here in the Pacific Northwest have much more in common with British Columbia than any other region in the United States.
And BC has more in common with Washington than with Ottawa
The British claim was also based on the overland expedition to the Pacific by Alexander MacKenzie, who reached the ocean at Bella Coola in 1793, several years before the Lewis and Clark expedition did.
Somehow you failed to mention the great Pig War between the two countries, on San Juan Is. It was just one of the little odd matters that needed to be cleared up after that general border was drawn. I believe it was settled by the Tsar of Russia or somebody, acting as mediator. It's one of the things tourists learn about when they tour San Juan.
I believe it was settled by Germany. I think the tsar of Russia settled where exactly the BC/Alaska border was where it dips down to cut off a bunch of BC from the Pacific coast. Something to do with gold being found there, and both countries naturally wanting to be the one that owned the land where it was found.
The boundary dispute between the US and British North America was arbitrated and settled by German Emperor Wilhelm I in 1872. I live on Orcas Island, which is just east of San Juan Island. The dispute was whether the boundary ran down the Haro Straight west of San Juan Island as the US favored, or down the Rosario Straight east of Orcas Island which the British, or rather the Hudson's Bay Company preferred. The remarkable thing about the dispute is that cooler heads prevailed and only a single pig was killed.
Bro you really like "erm actually 🤓" but don't know who your taking about
worst of all because the line was on the 49th parallel and based on shoreline the small town of Point Roberts was cut off from the United States, making all school students having to bus to Blaine via Canada and when the border was/is closed, residence of the small-town are cut off from resources for the most part.
And Lake of the Woods, same story.
its crazy you can also buy a bigger house 200k cheaper in point roberts over delta.....
We know
The British territory was fom the mouth of the Columbia north . The Americans grew bellicose , Britain backed off and we have the 49th .
Since Point Roberts residents aren't banding together to secede and join Canada, they must be good with it.
Although I have always lived in The Mid Atlantic Region of The USA I really love the Pacific Northwest as well! I have an old friend who moved to Washington a number of years ago. I went on vacation there a few years ago to visit with him and his family and to see the sites. I was not dissapointed!
I was not aware of how big a struggle we had in aquiring this territory. I really apprecciate what you shared! It really makes my memories of my trip there so much fonder than before! Thank You, Geoff!
You're wearing a great t-shirt to present this video! As a resident of Oregon, I loved learning more about the history of this region. Thank you, Geoff!
I would've loved to hear your opinion about Point Roberts, WA, which should belong to Canada because it is only connected to that country by land.
Point Roberts or Fight! 😀
When the US was given the San Juan Islands Canada really should have gotten Point Roberts as a consolation prize of sorts.
You’ll take point roberts from our cold, dead, nuclear armed sausage fingers
The border was settled by a treaty by people who had never been there. Their map did not show Pt Roberts so it was not known about. The problem with the San Juan Islands was the treaty said that the border west of the continent would follow the line of deepest water. Unfortunately the British thought that that was Rosario Strait giving Britain San Juan Island. The Americans thought that was Haro Strait giving them San Juan. Both sides had farms on the island. A Hudson Bay Company pig kept escaping his pen and raiding an American farmer's crops. He got tired of this and shot the pig.
Hot heads on both sides of the border prepared for war. The Americans landed a company of troops under an officer named a young lieutenant named George Pickett. The governor of Vancouver Island (British Columbia wasn't really a thing then) James Douglas wanted to raise a militia and invade the US. The Royal Navy was under orders to avoid conflict with the Americans and asked Douglas whose ships he was planning on using because it wouldn't be his. It was 1856 and the US could see domestic trouble brewing and also didn't want war. The dispute went to arbitration decided by Kaiser Wilhelm the first who sided with the Americans.
I have asked @Geography By Geoff to do an episode on exclaves like Point Roberts and the Northwest Angle. No response yet.
I didn't know Idaho was considered "Pacific Northwest". It was really fascinating! I am in Troutdale so this was all up my alley! Thanks Geoff for the cool video!
It's not. Don't believe everything you see online Anna. Think of it, is Idaho in the northwest? Yes. But does it have Pacific coastline? No. Therefore it is part of the Northwest, not the Pacific Northwest.
@@elgatofelix8917West Side of the Continental Divide, check. Columbia River watershed, check. Pacific salmon spawning grounds, check. Originally part of a territory with a coastline, check. Idaho gets a pass inasmuch as they want to be seen as such.
@@normanclatcher "originally part of a territory with a coastline" this is no longer relevant and hasn't been for well over a century now lol and if we're going by continental divide then arid desert states like Nevada, Utah, and Arizona should be included as "Pacific state" which is absurd. Salmon is tasty but not a deciding factor in a states geographic designation.
@@normanclatcher also I doubt most Idaho residents want to be grouped in with the lunatic liberal PNW anyhow
@@elgatofelix8917 Arizona, Utah and Colorado all have state colleges in the Pacific Athletic Conference. I don't like it much either, but it's a claim just the same.
And lol at the territories bit. I suppose if we go Treaty of Tordesillas route, why not make everything Coastal? Ha ha.
But nah, Idaho counts for reasons of waterflow, settlement, trading history, wildlife, and maybe even Time Zones if the state legislatures can just get it together for once...
Border should of been the Colombia river. That made the most sense. British crown was weak at that time though
Britain got a raw deal because it lost the Puget Sound, The Columbia River, and the most fertile agricultural lands.
They at least got valuable fishing ground for the salmon.
Also more water.
@@SS-yj2le
Alaska.
Russia also held part of Northern California, near where I live. We still have some Russian toponyms and the Russian River.
What is toponym?
And Mexican too. Never forget that California was stolen from Mexico by the great USA''. The scavengers coming from the 13th Colonies never bothered changing the name of the ""new state of the union''.
From Vancouver. I often say about this border - make it 1845 again. The border severely damages our region which should have always been connected. Let's get rid of it.
Make North America, Canadian again!
Sorry we have to keep it. Changing it will never happen. The US has enough land and so does Canada. Just come visit either side of the border.
@@kerrytoby7041 I want to merge the US and Canada, while keeping a stronger version of "states rights" for the Canadian provinces. EU model but tweaked to suit North America.
We should absolutely merge! It make no sense whatsoever to still be separated. Canadian provinces run their own health insurance systems anyway and they would continue to do so onece becoming states. The people of Canada would also get more equal representation as they would be able to vote for seniors. Costs off goods and materials would go down because you wouldn't have to import/export everything. The economy would flourish as Canadians would be using a stronger currency making it even stronger because more transactions are being conducted with it. Freedom of movement, abundance of resources and capital, the opportunitys would be limitless!
@@user-qv4np3ur5w In my ideal world, guns would still be heavily restricted in Canadian provinces (part of the stronger states' rights I mentioned), and healthcare for current Canadians (with perhaps some waiting period for current Americans that move to that province so they start paying into it if they move - until the US as a whole gets universal healthcare which will happen eventually) would continue. As for "racism and evangelicals" - I doubt the people you dislike would move to provinces en masse anyway, similar to how free movement within current US doesn't overwhelm the culture of "blue states".
I’m surprised the Columbia River wasn’t the boundry
Be interesting to see where my family would of ended up. Been in eastern Washington for well over 100 years and came from Texas before that.
Fascinating history, thank-you. I remember taking the ferry to Vancouver island as a kid. Beautiful place
Great video, subscribed!
Very interesting, thank you. 👍
As a Vancouver Islander, I’m happy to be a part of canada but equally happy to have my Cascadian community both North and south of the border :)
Cascadia, a new nation.
Nice T-shirt, Geoff. Area code, IATA Code and everything.
Awesome video!
The Oregon Treaty didn't officially end the dispute between the two countries over territorial claims. The San Juan Islands in Washington State were jointly occupied by both British and American settlers in the 1850s. The archipelago nearly became a flash point for renewed conflict with Britain in what later became known as the Pig War. The territorial dispute was not resolved until 1872 when a three-man arbitration commission ruled in favor of the United States based on the navigability of the Haro Strait to the west of the islands.
1:20 It bugs me that you are using Historic boarders for the States but are using modern borders for the provinces east of Manitoba
Forgot the Pig War where the Oregon Treaty didn’t make clear the boundary in the San Juan Islands
good stuff!
The old Oregon territory should have become it's own country. I call it, the Mountain Republic. It would have the Northwest and southern B.C. combined.
Why would you include BC . It wasn't explored by Americans . The US already got the sweet end of that deal . Yeah screw that .
Rupert's Land was all of the lands that drained into Hudson's Bay and was granted to the Hudson's Bay Company in 1670 which operated as a fur trading company and was responsible for opening up much of western Canada. The dividing line between the Hudson's Bay Basin and the Mississippi Basin was approximately at the 49th parallel which is why Britain settled on the division of territory there. Canada was formed in 1867 and purchased Rupert's Land from the HBC in 1869 for $1.5 million in response to the US purchase of Alaska from the Russians in 1867.
Britain held colonies at Vancouver Island (1849) and British Columbia (1858) which were independent until 1871 when they joined Canada after being promised an overland railway connecting the region to the rest of Canada in the east. This was completed in 1885. Overland rail was completed to California in 1867, San Francisco 1869, and north to Oregon in 1887. So over a 2 decade period, there was a race between the US and Canada to gain control of continuous territory from the Atlantic to the Pacific.
Well I’ve lived in British Columbia my whole life, and we called the Vancouver area the south coast because you know perspective. 😂
I'm so goddamn glad Canada got all of BC holy damn.
Totally.
My family & my husband's family both decided on Canada & move further north to stay in Canada.
We movedto the Willamete Valley 10 years ago and can see why so many traveled the Oregon Trail.
May I ask what your mapping source was, it's rather interesting that the Ancient Forest rain forest, Prince George, and Mackenzie in BC are omitted? It seems an odd division to make given the geography of the region.
I tend to think of Cascadia as my home Country and the Salish Sea region as my home Province/State. Shame it isn't actually so.
One mistake in my opinion was making Point Roberts American. It now creates many difficulties and problems for people living there
Same with making Campobello "Island" Canadian. They are only connected to the USA by land in Maine. It now creates many difficulties and problems for people living there.
The idea of Cascadia as a country would be the only time where I might consider merging with Americans.
A few comments about the maps used. When talking about the Louisiana Purchase, you show Quebec Ontario and Labrador with their modern extents, but that was not the case back in 1803. Everything where the Watershed drained into Hudson's Bay which included the northern two-thirds of both modern-day Ontario and Quebec was known as Rupert's land and that shape you have to the west of Ontario was half in Rupert's land and half in the British Northwest Territory.
When you redraw the map to show the border between the US and British North America at the 49th parallel, your border between Louisiana and New Spain looks like you used the borders of the old Orleans Territory which didn't exist after 1812.
Also, when talking about the Britain claiming everything north of the Columbia River, that's not quite correct. Between 1818 and 1846, each side approached the other more than once about a final disposition of the territory, and while the Columbia River was part of the proposed border, it was not all of it like you show. Both the British and the American Representatives proposed variations on the Lower Columbia River plus the Snake River, or the Lower Columbia plus the Salmon River as the potential border, plus other local tributaries that would run to the Continental Divide. It wasn't until the negotiations with the administration of James K. Polk that extending the border along the 49th parallel to the Pacific coast was suggested.
If the US did acquire all of the Oregon Country, I wonder if Alaska would have become part of Canada.
No. The UK never controlled Alaska.
@@davek303 I know the UK never had Alaska; Russia offered to sell it to both the US and UK, but the UK declined because it already had enough arctic land. If the US took all of Oregon Country, the UK would have had more incentive to purchase Alaska to gain access to the Pacific. Also, Russia wanted to sell Alaska because it couldn't afford to defend it from UK in the event of war, so another possibility is that the UK could have taken it from Russia maybe in the Crimean War.
@@davidklein8608 my understanding is that the Russians didn't want to sell to Britain because they didn't want Britain that close.
@@rebeccaorman1823 I've seen conflicting accounts depending on the history article. I think Russia was just gauging the interest of Britain in buying Alaska. They preferred to sell to the US, but considering it was called "Seward's Folly", the US wasn't completely sold on purchasing Alaska.
@@davidklein8608 I doubt that seriously. Russia and Britain had just fought the Crimean War and were serious rivals in Asia at the time. The last thing that the Russians would want was Britain on their doorstep. Which is why they sold to the US. kind of ironic considering how things are now.
Dang theres a universe where i live the exact same life but im canadian
I have been an Oregonian since 1975, but did not know the history as you have described it. Very interesting! 🌲🦉🌂👓
I wish videos like this were around when I was in school. I would’ve got more out of my education.
Plus it’s pronounced Hudson’s Bay Company with an “S” and no mention of Sir Alexander Mackenzie☹️, made it to the pacific 13 years before Lewis and Clark.
Many would argue that the sf bay area and north is part of the Pacific Northwest, as well.
As someone from the Pacific Northwest living in the Midwest due to economic hardship I miss my home and having been all over the country/Canada Cascadia is definitely its own thing. I related to British Columbia more than I do currently to the rest of the US. Obviously our cultures are pretty similar, but the minds of those in the PNW are all very similar.
Minor map correction: After the War of 1812, Canada (as opposed to the Province of Nova Scotia (which included New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island) and Labrador & Newfoundland) was split into the provinces of Upper Canada and Lower Canada. Lower Canada (from which much of Quebec was formed) was northeast of Upper Canada (from which was much of Ontario was formed). That is because the terms "Upper" and "Lower" is based upon the flow of the the St. Lawrence River. Later, the two Canadas were split into Canada West and Canada East during the reforms of the 1840s with Canada West corresponding to much of future Ontario and Canada East corresponding to future Quebec. When the Dominion of Canada was formed in 1867, Nova Scotia was split into three provinces (see above) and it joined with Ontario and Quebec to form the new nation. In 1871, British Columbia joined Canada and ultimately the prairie provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta followed suit. Newfoundland was the last province to join in 1949. At the current time, the Northwest Territories, Yukon and Nunavut do not have provincial status probably due to their very small populations.
The Columbia River would have been a great border.
Great content. Very Wes Anderson like 🤌🏼🤌🏼
Shakes fist at Canada
As a canadian, i am sad this never happened. Also first!
I like that you actually had a comment prior to announcing place (1st)
That warmer southern coast of Oregon. Definitely something a ridiculously cold country like Canada would want.
@@SS-yj2le Warmer...?
I _guess_ Brookings counts...
so am I and I'm from Seattle
Would be awesome if bc was part of America
Can you make a video about the Alaskan panhandle? I'm still confused why that part doesn't belong to YT and BC
Basically, Russia had claims to the 54'40 parallel before anyone else. So when the US bought Alaska, they eventually needed to decide how far inland the border was. The panhandle is a compromise of what Britain and the US claimed of the mainland. It is a panhandle because the Russians never claimed very much of the interior, having not travelled very far from the coast.
Incidentally, BC claimed all the mainland, saying only the islands were the USA's, possibly in parallel to how the US got all of the mainland in this video, and BC only kept Vancouver island.
The Russian claims are also where the phrase "54'40" or fight came from; The USA couldn't claim any more without getting involved with Russia, who still owned Alaska at the time.
54' 40' or fight!
~8:34: “And with that, the fight for control of the northwest territory had come to an end.” Not quite: it would be another 10 yr and a another “war” before control of the San Juan Islands would be decided once and for all…
Ah yes. The Geopolitics of Canadian Bacon.
The great pig war.
@@ralphvelthuis2359 Quite!
You're an Oregonian, aren't you? I'd like to see the Columbia river some time
If you ever do get the chance to go, I recommend the Columbia River Gorge.
Yes he is.
His 503 t shirt gives it away. That's Portland's area code.
It's stunning to see, and its creation is remarkable. Volcanic activity was a large part, but repeated colossal floods were primarily the cause. The flooding also created the Willamette Valley in Oregon. Some land beside the Willamette River, drained for agriculture, has boulders several miles up the river said to be placed there by the flooding. The Gorge is stunning because of how it cuts through the Cascade mountains. The dams have tamed the flow quite a bit. The Willamette Valley is known for rich soil and the river is one of a few in the northern hemisphere that flows north.
Take the I 205 bridge from Oregon to Washington on a clear day and the results won’t disappoint you
Could you quote your source for Britain having a desires to seize louisiana purchase land because this is the first I've heard about it.
And then there’s the inconvenient little fact that a peninsula called Point Roberts juts south into the Strait of Georgia from north of the 49th parallel. It logically should be part of Canada, but because it’s on the mainland and south of the 49th parallel, the tip of the peninsula is by treaty part of the USA, even though it has no land connection to the rest of the USA except through Canada.
503PDX on your shirt? 503, an area code for Portland OR?
Makes me wonder why the US didn't push the border up slightly to encompass Vancouver. Another 20 miles north and Canada would have been essentially cut off from the Pacific.
Awesome! Hello American neighbors! 👍😎🇨🇦
John Jacob astor sounds familiar
There are more negotiation. Initially US want south of 51st parallel with vancouver island on US side, which UK want north of Columbia River. I heard UK ever tried to set Olympia as border before the treaty, but not sure if there is source for this.
Last time I was this early, it was still "only two weeks to flatten muh curve"
Geoff, you omitted any mention of the vote at champoeg when a vote was held to decide to make the Oregon territory part of the US. Why did you skip over this detail?
it also included western Montana and Northwest Wyoming
Man, as a Portland resident I wish this happened. America can keep Idaho though. I also will never consider Idaho part of the Pacific Northwest.
Would have been nice in many ways. 😅
As an eastern Washingtonian, I can confidently say that the sentiment is mutual for many of us…
:-P
@@heymikeyh9577 Idaho is right there, you can move to it lol
Eastern Washington here and I’ll go with Idaho any day. Just wondering like you do know the rest of Oregon hates u right? Shit half of the state is trying to leave because of Portland😂
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Actually considering it, since wife’s family straddles the border over Pullman-Moscow/Lewiston-Clarkston…
If they had made the border 50degrees N Lat. instead of 49 which is arbitrary, Vancouver BC and the Fraser River Valley would be in US. In that case Canada's only Pacific seaport would be Prince Rupert about 50km south of Alaska panhandle. This is because the west coast of Canada is a wall of mountains. Canada, i.e. British, gave away the farm.
Within 2 hours!
The Pacific Northwest is really different from the rest of the US country. When you go to Oregon or Washington you feel how people are different. I live in both states and I can tell people are not materialistic or superficial as other Americans, and the biggest different is that people in the PNW care about the environment a lot and recycling. I know in Oregon the Cascadian Movement for independence is big, I hope one day it becomes real.
oregon is gorgeous
Call it by it's proper name: the District of Columbia. 🇨🇦
MT is sometimes considered part of the *PNW* .
Especially the northwest part of Montana. It was originally included in the Oregon country. Pretty much anything west of the continental divide in western Montana is part of the original Oregon Country, which by default makes it PNW.
Cool Tee-shirt, and I get it. I know what it is showing.
I am from Quebec and I am for a free Quebec and also a Independent Cascadia
Yeah, I always knew it as the republic of Cascadia but I thought that also went down to Northern California
Your videos are always brilliant. Accurate and entertaining. However, referring to the 1846 treaty, you mention "British Canada". In 1846 there was no country called Canada. The word "Canada" did feature in the name of 2 British colonial territories in the east (Upper and Lower) - but the country called Canada did not come into being till 1867. In 1846 the British-claimed lands in the west north of the 49th parallel tended to be called "New Caledonia District". Vancouver Island Colony was founded in 1849, British Columbia in 1858, and not till 1871 did this huge area of British North America join Canada.
In order to be polite we have to pretend Canada is an actual country and not just some notion they shat out to compensate for the fact that they're inferior to America
Looking back at it I’m surprised that Britain didn’t demand half of Lake superior having the international border straight down the lake and then the international border going straight west from where Duluth Minnesota is today. I think United States got the better of that deal. Of course if that would’ve been the case, Duluth would end up being a Canadian port today while superior Wisconsin would be an American port.
Why does your voice keep going up at the end of each sentence?
I live in the PNW, and I don't think I would ever live anywhere else in the U.S. other than the PNW. Cascadia is also another name for the Pacific Northwest.
Within 1,800 views!
The southern end of Vancouver Island which includes Victoria BC is below the 49 th parallel, So Victoria could be part of Washington State
Not so fast!
Everything on this continent, the one south of it and all the people living in those, are American.
That territory south of Canada is that of those United States of America (presumably both of them and, confusingly, several other countries also have united states within them but, that's for another time, I guess).
Amerigo Vespucci would be proud and the other 700 million inhabitants of those continents are happy to have those living in the USA as fellow Americans :)
This is why there are two Vancouvers. Columbia River should be the border.
As an american i can tell you Americans would be delighted if canada took washington, oregon, and california.
Darn, and that’s why we in Oregon have poor health insurance.
Yo bro Geoff ... you from weird Portland Oregon ?
The Pacific Northwest also includes northwest California, northwest Montana, and parts of Alaska.
Depends on whether you're talking about a biological or ecological region, or whether you're talking about a political or economic region. While the far western portion of Montana was included in this British-American condominium, it's easier to get to from the rest of Montana than it is to get to from Idaho. That area used to be part of Idaho territory, but was split off at the request of the local residents because they could not be reached by the territorial government and instead their economic activity was with places like Bozeman and Billings. That area also had its own independence movement known as Absaroka State.
i like Idaho Washington and Oregon i feel like they the best places to live in the world
Nice haircut!
Correction : Boise has a population of 250,000 not 750,000
The fight over the PNW didn’t end in 1848. It ended in 1872, when Germany said that the San Juan Islands were American
Great video, but Oregon City is actually in clackamas county
And Clackamas County is in the Willamette Valley. Ironically, Oregon City was founded by the Hudson's Bay Company, not by American settlers.😂😂😂
Inject this stuff directly into my veins, please and thank you.
Injecting stuff into veins is the national sport of Cascadians. You'd fit right in
Starting in the 19th century Britain could be the dominate power in the Pacific Basin. Britain had the resources too.
I wouldn't count Idaho as the Pacific Northwest.
CASCADIA NOW
For the sake of Pac Northwesterners on both sides of the border, maybe it’s too bad the British didn’t take Oregon Country. With then the additional population going to Western Canada, there would be more balance with Eastern Canada with the population based around the Great Lakes, and the distantly separated populations probably would have broken up the country, giving us in the PNW and Western Canada a country of our own.
54 40 or fight!
John Jacob Astor's first forte went bust? Astoria is still a city and is called the first permanent US city/town west of the Rockies? Fur trading didnt make him money, but it helped with the US claim to the area. As far as an american claim to the area, Astoria founded in 1811 would of been more substantial then Oregon City founded in 1844, 33 years later . Oregon City was the first incorporated city west of the Rockies, but Astoria was the first US city west of the Rockies . This is a quote from The Department of State , office of historian. "The U.S. claim was based on the explorations of Lewis and Clark and on the establishment of trading posts set up by John Jacob Astor's Pacific Fur Company, such as Astoria at the mouth of the Columbia River"
Still a bitter pill for this 4th generation bc guy
Can we give Canada Washington and Oregon? As an instance we can give them California too. Only one stipulation, need to take its residents as well.
Sure, we can take Washington and Oregon, why not just California back to Mexico 😄
Little do people know or care about..
There was a pig war in that disputed territory
And one day we will be free..!