Are You a Cage-Stage Calvinist? Five Ways to Escape the Bars.
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
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" Let every man be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to get angry."-James 1:19
I was an atheist until 18 when a friend talked me into going to church with her. I ended up hearing the gospel and "accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior". After 2 years going to that church I eventually left it because as I was reading the Bible I was discovering many things that didn't seem to line up, like speaking in tongues, laying on hands and making people fall over, you know the drill. It took me years of searching before I found Reformed theology. I think that's how it goes for a lot of Christians. I was very zealous as an 18 year old new Christian and invited all of my friends and family to come to church with me, and I would talk about Christ all day and all night to anyone who would listen. This kinda makes me cringe now because I had such little knowledge of the Bible back then. I think I was a cage-stage Christian way before I ever knew the word Calvinism. But that same zeal surfaced once again when I did discover Reformed theology, and I felt like a fire had been rekindled inside of me. It would be fair to say I was a cage-stage Calvinist for a while. I think it's normal to be excited when something has changed your life so dramatically and you just want everyone else to experience the same thing. Zeal without knowledge is dangerous though.
Finding the doctrines of grace is like being saved again because you truly see how good the news of the gospel is for the first time in all its enormity. you see how merciful God is and how precious Christ is. You want to tell everyone. I get the cage stage.
Matt, as someone who recently came to Reformed Theology about 6th-8th months ago, I’ve made some of these mistakes and I’m thankful you addressed these concerns with great love and humility in the truth.
As an ex - cage-stager, I encourage you: God's grace is sufficient to CALM us down. 😊✝️
I wish I had known about "cage stage" in the beginning of God saving me from the charismatic movement. I had no wisdom and discernment and no mature knowledge of Scripture and went in guns blazing and offending a few people with my ungraceful arguments 🙈 it took me 2 years of silently learning Scripture (away from social media) before I realized that God had helped me to mature in my personality and to be more humble, now I pray for opportunities to walk with a new believer instead of argue with anyone from my old "church".. Thankfully my 'cage stage' only lasted 2-3 months before God gave me the sorrow for my ungraceful, unloving behavior and the wisdom to shut up and learn in silence. All glory to God for His patience and kindness towards me in this area of my walk on the narrow path 🙌
Amen to that, it’s almost embarrassing
This is an excellent video for all new "Calvinist" reformed Christians. God expects us to be loving, merciful, and gracious to everyone we talk to regardless of whether or not we are young or old in the reformation. This is a lesson I need to re-school myself with quite often.
Well said and much needed (by me). "But respond with gentleness and respect" (1 Pet 3:15 BSB).
Thank you for this reminder Pastor Matt. It is no small coincidence that I watched an unrelated video just before this which illustrates a similar point. If you saw someone blind walking the wrong way, would you yell at them? Call them names? If you did that do you think they would run to you or away from you? This illustrates the need for a kinder gentler approach- the Lord puts people in our lives to teach US.
You perfectly described my journey as well…I was introduced to the Reformed tradition about 3 years ago and have come to love it so dearly. From being the run of the mill “professing Christian” who never read their Bible or never even went to church for a long time. Looking back, I can see just how much of a jerk I could be over the last year and a half. On top of pride, I think we want so dearly, we’ll meaningly, to share the truth of what we learn, and our passion for the glory of God burning brightly and many other things which distinguish Reformed Theology, we can get carried away. And others can take it too far. You’re absolutely right Pastor Matt…we must be gracious and loving in a serving manner to others, while not sacrificing the truth of Scripture. Like I said, you described me perfectly and I truly appreciate this!
It's good I watched this video. I'm beginning to be exactly what you're describing. Appreciate this timely warning.
Man, you nailed me bro. Heresy hunter over here
That Luther example got me. He had depression and so do I. Pride is my worst enemy. I gotta emulate the Christ I follow in his humility exemplified in philippians 2.
Great advice Matt
God bless you pastor Matt! I needed this
i know this vid is from a while back but 1 scripture is all that's needed " Colossians 4:6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."
I’m a reformed dispensationalist and I second this message!
This is good advice for Christians of all types. Thank you for sharing this, Pastor Matt!
So glad this is acknowledged as a real thing or I would have felt totally alone. Fortunately I had enough self awareness to know my new knowledge was making me combative and, ironically, less Christlike. I don't argue online, however. My main conversations are with a close family member who is stuck in an evanjellyfish mega non-denom. I am meeting with an older lady at church who is helping me with my own issues. Thank you pastor Matt for your graciousness.
Thank you for this video brother..
yes I too was a cage stager… so were some of you….hackles started to rise listening to this!!!! but Pastor E. put me back in place. Wish I’d had a mentor as suggested… thanks for the Godly wisdom today Pastor
This is a real problem! Thank you Pastor Matt. You are always gracious. God bless you.
This channel needs more subscribers and viewers.
I have learned a lot from you!
May God bless you and your ministry brother!
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
(Philippians 4:13 KJV)
I am saved; and was a charismatic until my twenties, then I got hold of a Reformed systematic theology book.
Then I became the cage-stage-iest of the Cage Stagers! 😆
What TULIP? I had a whole TULIP FARM!!!😆
But I'm no longer in a cage (but on a rather short leash called "humility"😊).
God bless you all.✝️
Thank you Matt. SBC pastor's son and very new SBC pastor of 6 months of a small congregation. The past 3 years I have been searching scripture and finding Calvinism everywhere in the bible. It goes against what I learned from young. But it is right there in plane sight. I stay off comments and social media but I have found the cage stage out there. Thank you for the insight. We are all growing in knowledge of our Creator. Patience is the way but hard to practice. God bless
Thanks a lot for this men
Thank you.
Well put. One book that isn't a specific topical tome that I'd recommend, is the letters of Samuel Rutherford. He has such a strong grasp of the loveliness of Christ, which is something that seems to be somewhat anemic in those caught in the cage stage and they cannot dismiss him as a weakling for the biblical and reformed truths!
Pastor Matthew, thank you for this, and for all of your videos. They have been a great help to me. You suggest (around the 14:50 point of this video) for those of us who may be bogged down in theology to read some works on prayer (and humility, grace and the fruits of the spirit). I love this suggestion... could you share any specific works on prayer that you think we should seek out? Thank you.
I'm newly reformed. Recently I shared Chosen by God by Sproul with my family & it caused them to have a meltdown. When we spoke about it, I was calm & just kept pointing them to scripture while all their arminian arguments were feelings based. I've been told I'm in a cult & that my husband has brainwashed me. It's very discouraging. Their main issue with me seemed to be that I was too sure of what I was saying & pointing to in scripture. The cage stage goes both ways.
You are in a cult. You clearly know nothing about church history.
Hi,
If I may request for a video on equal ultimacy… thanks!
Humble Calvinism by JA Medders is a Good Book on Being Hunble as Reformed Christians.
I love this channel. It’s really sad though when a denominational persuasion has something called “cage stage Calvinism” associated with it. It’s a sign of pride and arrogance when a person thinks they have it all right because suddenly they have found Reformed Theology or TULIP and uses it as a sword to attack everyone else. This seems to be endemic in those of the Reformed and Calvinist persuasion. It’s helpful, I think, to see those within your community, such as yourself, address this issue and see it for the problem it is. I would go so far as to say a Cage Stage Calvinist has absolutely no business teaching, witnessing, correcting or practicing apologetics until they are spiritually mature and can practice these things in love and patience. Until such a day comes they should leave correcting, apologetics, counseling etc etc to the spiritually mature who exhibit fruits of the Spirit rather than anger, malice and all the other negative aspects that come along with Cage Stagers. I appreciate your addressing this as neither Cage Stage Calvinism nor “Young Restless and Reformed” are anything that a God fearing, Heart for Christ Presbyterian Christian would want associated with their faith.
Hello, I enjoy your videos. You are very clear, gentle, and possess brevity yet you are thorough.
Two topics that would be very helpful and beneficial would be
1. The Bible’s stance on woman pastors.
2. And images of Christ and the second commandment.
Thank you.
Hello friend! I actually have videos on both of these topics already. I think they are in my Reformed view series.
Thank you for bringing this up. If I had to be honest I think I'm at end-stage cage-stage. Lol.
I've toned down my "zeal" greatly the last couple of years.
Question though: if I worry about Christian friends with wrong theology how do they learn the right theology if they aren't presented with it? Yes, they might stumble on it like I did but they might not also.
It does indeed happen in various Christian groups. I was raised in the old Southern Presbyterian Church and when I left that for the ARP prior to entering seminary and was introduced to Reformed theology at a greater depth before and entering seminary I maw well have had a cage stage. Some years later I became an Anglican and can assure you that there are cage stage Anglicans as well. Then there are friends who have swum the Tiber or Bosporus and became Rad-Trad Roman Catholics or Hyperorthodox, respectively.
While I don't view my move from Presbyterian to Anglican as a conversion (I'm still Reformed), the zeal of the convert of any stripe is something to behold indeed.
Thank you for this Pastor Matt. Any suggestions for a book on pride/humility?
Philippians 2:5-8
Humble Calvinism
Am truly enjoying your channel ... awesome. May I make 2-request?
1. You have had a link to your "Every Chapter in the Bible' Check Sheet as one of your RUclips links ... can't seem to locate ... thus, would you provide? thanks so much
2. Am seeking a Biblically Based Expository Church in the Atlanta GA area ... can't seem to locate ... thus, would you assist? thanks so much
The answer to the first question is on my "about page" go to my channel and look for the about link. Click it and then scroll down to "Bible reading plan" that should take you to it!
Hi pastor Matt, I hope you might be able to answer my question. I've started my studies of theology recently and I must say, I really struggle to see the grace of God in limited atonement. I just can't see how God would only die for the elects, and then when we talk about the elects, how can we ever be sure we are part of them. How can we say that in 5 or 10 or 40 years, we'll still be preserved. It's a real struggle for me. I don't say this as an attack on calvinism, I really want to understand. I have doubted my faith for most of my life, really struggle with imposter syndrome, I left the church for a long time because our family was deeply hurt by it. The principle of irresistible grace really resonated with me because I was constantly fighting, I wanted to go back to church but was too hurt and scared. When I finally went back, I was filled with fear and anxiety constantly. Passages like those in Hebrews just ate at me and still do. I just can't get behind the explanations that defend eternal security, even though I don't want to believe it's possible to lose our salvation. Limited atonement makes grace seems so small and limited, so unforgiving. The idea we could be deceiving ourselves our entire lives just to end up being rejected by God. It tortures me, I am so afraid and unable to move beyond fear-based faith, to really trust God because there is so much I don't understand. All I know is that I don't want to be separated from Him, my biggest fear has always been to be rejected by God on judgement day. The more I study these doctrines and the more confuse I become.
I appreciate this video. I was wondering, though, does this also apply to all the "discernment ministries" out there, i.e. Justin Peters, Long for Truth, The Messed Up Church, and so on?
I've been praying for a mentor and noting . Well two said they would but noting came of it
Just want to contribute something to this discussion but before I do I want to Amen everything Pastor Matt said here. I agree with his points. I've seen and even been the cage stager and so Amen and thank you Pastor Matt.
With that said, I want to add something that may be obvious to some but I shall say it anyway. We live in a day where things, statements, opinions, etc. don't have to actually be rude, harsh, mean, nasty or anything even close to offensive in order to labeled as one or all of those things. The only requirement apparently is as long as someone somewhere is offended then it is open season on the "offender". I know you guys have seen or experienced what I'm saying. This shouldn't be controversial.
Speak the truth openly and boldly brothers and sisters (and here is the real test of boldness) and do it in a timely manner. Meaning don't get all bold and speak clearly about battles fought and won 20 years ago. Speak up about something real that is happening today. Get in a fight where you are not safe and sound fighting ghosts. Do not let fear of not sounding nice hold you back from saying what needs to be said, naming who needs to named and acting when action is needed. We can hold these two things together.
Grace and peace to you all.
I loved your advice on humility and prayer. But do you have any book recommendations?
Philippians 2:5-8
@@mitchellcollins7370 I guess I should have known that. Thanks.
Pharisees we’re reformed too,,,loved the letter and Moses but we’re blind to the spirit.
I’m a Calvinist and I can’t stand cage stage Calvinists so thank you pastor Matthew for this video.
Allegedly, John Calvin was known to call opponents pig, dog, ape, etc. So did Thomas More. Seems to have been a 16th century thing. The Victorian age seemed to calm things down a bit, but only for a while.
Once you really understand the The truth of scripture in the biblical framework of reformed theology- God chips away heavily at pride- unconditional election is enough to do that, “why would God choose me?!” Soli Deo Gloria
Amen 🙏
I've passed the cage stage and entered the Considering Orthodoxy stage of Reformed Theology. How do you answer the criticisms of Eastern Orthodoxy against Protestantism? This has been eating at me for over a year now. From what I can see, they have an unbroken lineage back to the apostles, and their Church compiled the New Testament. Please help Pastor Matt.
I always chuckle when cage stage comes up. When I'm told I'm being mean, I smile and think about the violent man that spent 18 years in prison truly being mean, all I'm doing is offering a Hammer hug! Lol. Seriously though, even in cage stage, I was a much gentler person than before Christ.
My journey into Reformed Theology began when I picked up a book by RC Sproul. I was about 40. Then I came across MacArthur and between the two of them, my fate was sealed! LOL Praise God. I generally didn't get into correcting people. I would listen and converse, usually with a line like "Have you ever considered..." I read a lot so I'd hand a book to a pal and that seemed to help. God has led me slowly in this direction and I am grateful for I am also quite passionate about things and can get, shall we say, quite involved in a 'debate'. I still do sometimes start going a little too hard in certain discussions. I am still growing and learning. What I have learned is that there are many in Christendom who really hate Reformed Theology. For me, it's the IFB folks who can be quite nasty.
what is IFB?
@@molintsui7501 Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. They are of the King James ONLY variety and the ones I've run across are, shall we say, less than friendly towards Reformed types.
@@billiamnotbob I am neither Reformed nor Baptist but to me, there are hostile personalities in both groups.
Guilty of this. But how do we spread truth, attempt to correct perhaps in a more loving way?
I'm a Christian
Oh, and John the Presbyterian (who baptised people) called some people Echidnas! (transliterating Greek for snakes).
Philippians 2:5-8
If doctrines of grace can be weaponized, are they really doctrines of grace?
Interesting question. 🤔 isn't the word of God a double edged sword?
If 'they' can really be weaponized by some calvinists, then they surely cannot be doctrines of grace.
But this isn't the case. Such calvinists are actually acting against the principles of the doctrines of grace which they profess. They are weaponizing themselves and hiding behind the doctrines of grace.
We should study the doctrines themselves, not its professors.
Unfortunately the human is capable to weaponize anything...
And the anti Calvinist are capable of weaponize doctrines too
You said “Gospel Fellowship worships on the lords day” and continued to state the times. I assumed you were talking about the Sabbath but I checked online and turns out you worship on Sunday. (Not the lords day) if I were to point it out as a fault in any Christian and try to correct by saying please observe Saturday as the holy day set aside by God(Exodus). Would that make me a cage stage Calvinist? Am I not allowed to point out my brother through Jesus Christ is sinning and or has something to work on? And before I point out a fault in my neighbor’s point of view I don’t do community service am I ultimately at fault? Am I being rude? Am I being mean?
We’ll done….
A particular doctrine makes people arrogant and prideful. It makes them think they are better than the rest. Maybe, just maybe, this is a doctrine of man, not a doctrine of God.
The mistake was, "Then we go online." Ha! On a serious note, I've never heard the term "cage-stage Calvinist" either in real life or even online. I've never understood how reformed theology is something people come to AFTER they get saved, as though it's some side thing. I'm not saying you know all theological points the moment you get saved. Of course not. I never knew any of these terms for many years after I got saved. I still really don't. I somewhat stay away from it because I can't stand the infighting. I call myself a Christian/follower of Christ, and that's that. After I started learning the terms I realized those were my general views, simply from reading the Bible. Maybe not every detail. Again, I still don't know all of these terms/ideas. But in general.
I don't understand why some professing Christians seem to be so against "Calvinism". (I'm not a fan of that term either.) Some passionately hate it. Although really, this is stuff I've only seen online. I've been fortunate in my life to not have any of those kinds of problems with people in real life. Again, anything I know about reformed theology just came from reading the Bible. Without later hearing all these terms, I would never have known it even had a name.
"Cage" stage pre tribulation dispensationalists. IYKYK 🤣
I think i might be cage stage.... But it's all directed to false teachers and hillsong and bethel. I'm having a really hard time talking about thoae bands/churches or televangelists in a meek and kind manner... 😅
Be a Christian first before you are a Calvinist or Lutheran or a Methodist or whatever denomination. Study the Bible for yourself. Watch your own Bobber. Adjust your theology to the Bible
Be open to the Holy Spirit showing you the scriptures.
The title of this video is attacking me
🙌🏼 Feed the babes Milk not Meat!
I’m not too fond of the term. I think it has more to do with the overall maturity of a Christian not their soteriology. If immature in their faith then yes you will see aggressive behavior with soteriology.
Brother it's a rather broad jump from presbyterian polity, multi-covenantal theology (not one covenant, many, and the "new," all promises therein), paedo-baptism, sacramentalism and Amillenialism to "Calvinism," which is a Swiss cheese theology of double predestination with multiple holes in it, including antelapsidarianism and exhaustive divine determinism. We have 500 years of history and anecdotal evidence that God in fact reveals Himself to those who seek and "that He is the rewarder of them." And we have much evidence contra-Cessationism. And we have Israel post 1948.
There's darn good reasons why Calvinism essential died out in all places where it was truly believed. Try finding a Congregationalist today. In fact, Calvinism exists only in a re-packaged Baptist form (US and UK) and a Neo-orthodox "Reformed" version (in Europe thanks to people like Karl Barth).
One may argue that the thread never was broken. But it was and remains a very tenuous thread.
Presbyterianism prevailed largely because Knox was savvy enough to capture the spirit of the Reformation without too much subtlety, imprint it upon the Scottish national Kirk and provide the inherently tough Scottish people with a rigorous, yet sufficiently rebellious Christianity, a far cry from the recipe of the reductive/exhaustive/consumptive Sorbonniste.
But I could be very wrong.
Adam Sandler ?
All Reformed are Calvinist, but not all Calvinists are Reformed. Like all pickles are cucumbers, but not all cucumbers are pickles.
not baptized into Calvin :D : God's Discipline will surely correct that.
Evanjellyfish 🐙
What we need to do with cage stagers is keep them in the cage with a Bible until the Holy Spirit shows them they need to drop the Manichean gnosticism and start believing the Bible. There is no gospel in Calvinism.
You recently talked against Jordan Peterson, and said something about the show Chosen.
There is no such thing as cage stage. The cage stage is a huge insult. You don't know what someone goes through! In a bad state of someone you can not insult someone into calling someone cage stage.
Lord Jesus Christ says not to cause division and also to be kind to everyone and second greatest commandment is to love our neighbour as ourself. If we somehow argue and debate in our growth, we can be corrected and guided by words of encouragement and examples of love. But hell no! Not a "stage", not a "cage". No human, not even a non elect should be framed or titles with an insult.
Personal testimony, i was looking for a Calvinist Church and a Pastor called me cage stage. After hearing it, my wworld collapsed. My identity and my stand in Christ was completely shaken, lost all my confidence and many more things.
And all born again, wants to do ministry and serve Christ and does do it. Fruits are from The Spirit. But again, framing someone with a cage stage is disgusting. If someone does have a character problem, the certain characteristics can be addressed, but calling it a cage stage is the caharacter problem of the one saying it? Do you get it?
Its called common sense. Maybe you explained in love, but when someone else uses cage stage, they dont preach it in love. They shout and bring down the spirit of a human, claiming the other person is a cage stage. Hence the term shouldnt exist.
We all have different opinions, interests, wisdom and stand. That itself is good for someone to understand that someone else may have a different view in the Gospel. Isnt saying that better than calling it a cage stage?
Again, im sorry if my words weren't fruitful, just my point of view.
7:28 This really bothers me. You are excusing the ungodlyness of Martin Luther as okay because he is famous and or wrote a popular book? Luther was used to support the mass genocide of the Jews. He supported the murder of those who didn't believe in infant baptism. But I guess acting ungodly is okay if you are important to the heritage of Calvinists. This comes across really bad.
Step #1 Stop being a Calvinist and read other perspectives that don't eisegete a systematic theology into the text.
All Reformed are Calvinist, but not all Calvinists are Reformed. Like all pickles are cucumbers, but not all cucumbers are pickles.